Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:53 AM - Re: carbon monoxide (Terry Phillips)
2. 12:55 AM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Bob Unternaehrer)
3. 01:08 AM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Craig Payne)
4. 05:37 AM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Juan Vega)
5. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Juan Vega)
6. 06:03 AM - Re: 601XL - Riveting HT Attachment Brackets (staufferm)
7. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (steve)
8. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Jeff)
9. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (steve)
10. 08:22 AM - Re: carbon monoxide (Tim Juhl)
11. 09:06 AM - Fw: Carb (Bill Naumuk)
12. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Carlos Sa)
13. 09:20 AM - Re: Building on a budget - alternative engines for the 701. (Tom Lyon)
14. 09:22 AM - Is check valve in fuel return line needed? (Martin Pohl)
15. 09:22 AM - Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs) (PatrickW)
16. 10:21 AM - Re: carbon monoxide (Bryan Martin)
17. 11:02 AM - Re: carbon monoxide (Jaybannist@cs.com)
18. 11:30 AM - N601EL receives E-LSA certification! (Scott Thatcher)
19. 11:49 AM - Re: Is check valve in fuel return line needed? (george may)
20. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs) (Paul Tipton)
21. 11:52 AM - Re: carbon monoxide (Gary Boothe)
22. 11:54 AM - Re: N601EL receives E-LSA certification! (Edward Moody II)
23. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs) (robert stone)
24. 01:30 PM - Re: Building on a budget - alternative engines for the 701. (Dale Medendorp)
25. 01:47 PM - Re: carbon monoxide (Tim Juhl)
26. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Jeff)
27. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs) (steve)
28. 02:17 PM - Re: N601EL receives E-LSA certification! (Ron Lendon)
29. 02:32 PM - Re: Building on a budget - alternative engines for the 701. (jetboy)
30. 02:34 PM - Re: N601EL receives E-LSA certification! (rroberts)
31. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Jeff)
32. 02:43 PM - 601 and wing failiers (kmccune)
33. 04:04 PM - Re: carbon monoxide (n801bh@netzero.com)
34. 04:37 PM - Canopy seals (Matt & Jo)
35. 04:40 PM - Re: 601 and wing failiers (Paul Mulwitz)
36. 04:47 PM - Re: 601 and wing failiers (annken100)
37. 06:23 PM - Re: Canopy seals (Juan Vega)
38. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Juan Vega)
39. 07:00 PM - 601XL Canopy (steve)
40. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: carbon monoxide (Jeff)
41. 09:24 PM - Re: 601 and wing failiers (Bryan Martin)
42. 10:12 PM - Re: 601 and wing failiers (Canatukker)
43. 10:31 PM - Re: 601 and wing failiers (annken100)
44. 10:59 PM - Re: 601 and wing failiers (Canatukker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
I really like Larry's sandwich construct to close off the slots. However,
I'm concerned that there will still not be an effective fire barrier. I
haven't begun to design it yet, but I'm thinking combining Larry's sandwich
with something like the eyeball fittings sold by Van's, Cat No. EYEBALL
TTP-125
http://tinyurl.com/2t6rwd
to provide a better seal.
I haven't looked at heater valve supplied with my FWF kit. But I'm
considering the stainless steel heater valve sold by epm.av:
http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html
I also like their firewall penetration systems.
Then, again, I wonder, does it make sense to work to really seal the fire
wall when the cowl is epoxy-fiberglass composite, and the only thing
between me and a fire coming out of the cowl is a Plexiglass canopy? I
really don't know.
Any thoughts?
Terry
At 12:44 PM 12/15/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>Bobby,
>I put a sealed sandwich construct behind the slots that is held by two
>bolts. An O-ring grommet fits the steering rod and effectively seals the
>opening.
>Not hard to make as an afterthought. Install should be the same. See link,
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-barrier.gif
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-barrier-2.gif
>Put a little silicone seal around the edge toward the firewall and allow
>the slider with grommet to move up, down and a small amount sideways and
>you've got it.
>
>I'd also suggest you extend your exhaust pipe(s) to one side and or behind
>the firewall.
>
>Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>to all
>>i have a 601 XL with the Jabiru 3300. during the summer i accumulated
>>about 50 hrs and had no problem with carbon monoxide. when it got colder
>>and i closed the NACA air vents my CO monitor turned black in less than 2
>>tenths of an hour. i got a headache and nauseated very quickly. when i
>>noticed the monitor i opened the vents and landed immediately. when the
>>vents are open the cabin area is pressurized and apparently keeps the CO
>>out. When they are closed you can watch the monitor start turning darker
>>in a very short time. has anyone noticed this and how can it be fixed. i
>>have exhaust stains on the lower firewall and all along the belly. my
>>steering rods to the nose wheel are sealed somewhat but i am planning to
>>make them air tight. this is a very dangerous situation and i need to
>>find a solution fast
>>please help,
>>
>>Bobby Paulk
>>N131BP
>
>
>Terry Phillips
>ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
>Corvallis MT
>601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail (almost) finished; working on the wings
>http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
There has been a lot of discussion on this thread. What doesn't seem to
be talked about much is keeping the differential pressure positive in
the cabin vs the upper engine high pressure area. Sealing the firewall
is important, especially on the high pressure side, but getting the
exhaust out of the cowl area is also important and mentioned below.
Don't depend on any firewall seal in the long run. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out as
well.
The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would suggest
that the exhaust pipe does not penetrate far enough into the slipstream
to carry the exhaust away. Obviously you don't want to be dumping
exhaust into the engine compartment.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
Of course if you place the gascolator where the plans call for it (poking
through the floor just in front of the center spar) then you have a nice
hole well behind the end of most exhaust pipes. And with its wire bale the
gascolator supplied by Zenith is hard to seal up.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Unternaehrer
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
There has been a lot of discussion on this thread. What doesn't seem to be
talked about much is keeping the differential pressure positive in the cabin
vs the upper engine high pressure area. Sealing the firewall is important,
especially on the high pressure side, but getting the exhaust out of the
cowl area is also important and mentioned below. Don't depend on any
firewall seal in the long run. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl <mailto:juhl@avci.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out as well.
The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would suggest that the
exhaust pipe does not penetrate far enough into the slipstream to carry the
exhaust away. Obviously you don't want to be dumping exhaust into the
engine compartment.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
Blue RTV to seal the Gascolator location works perfect. With the mufflers extended
down with 5 iunch extensions I have no CO.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Dec 16, 2007 4:05 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>Of course if you place the gascolator where the plans call for it (poking
>through the floor just in front of the center spar) then you have a nice
>hole well behind the end of most exhaust pipes. And with its wire bale the
>gascolator supplied by Zenith is hard to seal up.
>
>
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
>Unternaehrer
>Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:53 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>There has been a lot of discussion on this thread. What doesn't seem to be
>talked about much is keeping the differential pressure positive in the cabin
>vs the upper engine high pressure area. Sealing the firewall is important,
>especially on the high pressure side, but getting the exhaust out of the
>cowl area is also important and mentioned below. Don't depend on any
>firewall seal in the long run. Bob U.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Tim Juhl <mailto:juhl@avci.net>
>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:03 PM
>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>
>Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out as well.
>
>The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would suggest that the
>exhaust pipe does not penetrate far enough into the slipstream to carry the
>exhaust away. Obviously you don't want to be dumping exhaust into the
>engine compartment.
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
>
>
><Bp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link
>Free href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;
>Features Chat, --> http://www.matron======================
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
>bsp; via the Web
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
To All;
Put you mufflers on, and look to se how far past the firewall the pipes go. They
should come down enought and far enough back to blow the exhaust into the slip
stream and not on the plane. SImple fix is look at the pipe from the side
and meaure with wire the length. down. Take your muffler to a regular muffler
shop or better and machine race car shop. For ten bucks they will make you a
set of clamp on extensions to the muffler. Mine work great. I get no CO in
cabin, No heat in cabin either. By cutting the extesnion tip at a 45 degree
angle away from hull, there is little noise in flight , no resonance. No
difference in performance either.
Juan Vega
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>
>Sent: Dec 16, 2007 12:03 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out as well.
>
>The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would suggest that the exhaust
pipe does not penetrate far enough into the slipstream to carry the exhaust
away. Obviously you don't want to be dumping exhaust into the engine compartment.
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Riveting HT Attachment Brackets |
Patrick,
I would not rivet the HS brackets at this time. I always have to remove one or
two to put the HS in place when the upper rear skin is in place. After I fit the
saddle and trim the rear top skin more it may not be an issue.
Have a great day!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152500#152500
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
The factory recommended placement of the gascolator was my first
disapointment in the design. I aint never going to have a source of a
gas leak in my cabin area. I know Mooney has the same setup but I
placed my gascolater as Cessna and Piper do, on the engine side of the
firewall...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:05 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
Of course if you place the gascolator where the plans call for it
(poking through the floor just in front of the center spar) then you
have a nice hole well behind the end of most exhaust pipes. And with its
wire bale the gascolator supplied by Zenith is hard to seal up.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Unternaehrer
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:53 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
There has been a lot of discussion on this thread. What doesn't seem
to be talked about much is keeping the differential pressure positive in
the cabin vs the upper engine high pressure area. Sealing the firewall
is important, especially on the high pressure side, but getting the
exhaust out of the cowl area is also important and mentioned below.
Don't depend on any firewall seal in the long run. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out
as well.
The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would suggest
that the exhaust pipe does not penetrate far enough into the slipstream
to carry the exhaust away. Obviously you don't want to be dumping
exhaust into the engine compartment.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
<Bp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the
Annual link Free
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Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
do not archive
Yes indeed. The Zenith placement of the gascolator raises a lot of
questions. I put mine in the traditional place on the engine side of the
firewall too. I used the Check design for routing the lines from the LE
tanks to the gascolator. This was the setup in N601VA, the first certified
601.
Jeff Davidson
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
The factory recommended placement of the gascolator was my first
disapointment in the design. I aint never going to have a source of a gas
leak in my cabin area. I know Mooney has the same setup but I placed my
gascolater as Cessna and Piper do, on the engine side of the firewall...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne <mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:05 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
Of course if you place the gascolator where the plans call for it (poking
through the floor just in front of the center spar) then you have a nice
hole well behind the end of most exhaust pipes. And with its wire bale the
gascolator supplied by Zenith is hard to seal up.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Unternaehrer
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
There has been a lot of discussion on this thread. What doesn't seem to be
talked about much is keeping the differential pressure positive in the cabin
vs the upper engine high pressure area. Sealing the firewall is important,
especially on the high pressure side, but getting the exhaust out of the
cowl area is also important and mentioned below. Don't depend on any
firewall seal in the long run. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl <mailto:juhl@avci.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out as well.
The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would suggest that the
exhaust pipe does not penetrate far enough into the slipstream to carry the
exhaust away. Obviously you don't want to be dumping exhaust into the
engine compartment.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
<Bp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link
Free href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;
Features Chat, --> http://www.matron======================
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
OK, what is the "Check" design ????
Sw
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
do not archive
Yes indeed. The Zenith placement of the gascolator raises a lot of
questions. I put mine in the traditional place on the engine side of
the firewall too. I used the Check design for routing the lines from
the LE tanks to the gascolator. This was the setup in N601VA, the first
certified 601.
Jeff Davidson
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:05 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
The factory recommended placement of the gascolator was my first
disapointment in the design. I aint never going to have a source of a
gas leak in my cabin area. I know Mooney has the same setup but I
placed my gascolater as Cessna and Piper do, on the engine side of the
firewall...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:05 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
Of course if you place the gascolator where the plans call for it
(poking through the floor just in front of the center spar) then you
have a nice hole well behind the end of most exhaust pipes. And with its
wire bale the gascolator supplied by Zenith is hard to seal up.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Unternaehrer
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:53 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
There has been a lot of discussion on this thread. What doesn't
seem to be talked about much is keeping the differential pressure
positive in the cabin vs the upper engine high pressure area. Sealing
the firewall is important, especially on the high pressure side, but
getting the exhaust out of the cowl area is also important and mentioned
below. Don't depend on any firewall seal in the long run. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out
as well.
The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would
suggest that the exhaust pipe does not penetrate far enough into the
slipstream to carry the exhaust away. Obviously you don't want to be
dumping exhaust into the engine compartment.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
<Bp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the
Annual link Free
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
nbsp; Features Chat, -->
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
I think he is referring to 601's as built in Czechoslovakia.
Tim
do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152514#152514
Message 11
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|
> Brandon-
> That's what I wanted to know-you bet I'll post. It's all too easy to be
> pennywise and pound foolish in the building game.
> In Iraq? What, your desert wasn't big enough? Watch your 6, bud, and
> come back safe. We're pulling for you.
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuse/Corvair
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Tucker" <btucke73@yahoo.com>
> To: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Carb
>
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I built my fuel system similar to yours. I built
>> my header tank to fit behind my instruments, which
>> ended up being around 12 gallons. I built my wing
>> tanks to fit in the leading edge of the wings, leaving
>> the wing baggage lockers free for baggage. -Only used
>> them once, however, for sleeping bags... Many
>> builders are against the idea of the header tank. I
>> fly 1920's biplanes on weekends, when I am in the
>> states, and they have 42 gallon fuel tanks in the
>> front cockpit - so I am kinda used to it. I like the
>> simplicity of the header tank, gravity feed system.
>> If I lose power to either fuel pump in the wing tanks,
>> I just land on what I have in the header - no
>> problem...
>>
>> I have had issues with the Aerocarb. To be
>> honest, I don't like it at all. I fiddled with it for
>> a year, and could never get it right. I used the
>> biggest taper needle they have, and I could not get it
>> rich enough at full power. I had to run it too rich
>> at idle, just to get it to work at all at full power.
>> Whenever the weather changes more than 40 degrees or
>> so, I have to adjust. I live in the desert! Cold in
>> the winter, and very hot in the summer. The mixture
>> adjustment on the carburetor is simply a small kneedle
>> valve. It is worthless. Also, because of the posa
>> style tapered needle being on one side of the carb,
>> one bank of cylinders would run leaner than the other,
>> on my engine. I did not have the room to install it
>> according to the installation manual, and attribute
>> the uneaven mixture problem to that.
>>
>> Before I left for Iraq, I had a loss of power on
>> takeoff with extremely high CHT's. I built a mixture
>> gage into my exhaust header, and it indicated a very
>> lean mixture. I have no idea what caused it, but I
>> ended up with a burned valve, two blown head gaskets,
>> and indications of detonation. I the heads have been
>> rebuilt, and I am just waiting to get back home in
>> March to get the engine put back together. I found a
>> good, used, MA3 carburetor for $300, and will be
>> installing that when I return.
>>
>> I bought the Aerocarb to save money originally,
>> and it appears that it may have cost me more money,
>> and some severe injuries. I almost did not make it
>> back to the runway when my engine lost power. I ended
>> up finding a certified carburetor for less. With a
>> little digging around, and possibly a little extra
>> money, you can find certified carburetors. I would
>> recommend them to anyone - simply because it takes the
>> guess work out of test flying an aircraft. 99% of the
>> time, they are good to go, straight out of the box.
>> There is no price on piece of mind when climbing out
>> on your first test flights. I learned that the hard
>> way. Please feel free to post this on the net, if you
>> feel it is worth the space...
>>
>> VR/
>>
>> Brandon Tucker
>> 601 HDS / TD / Corvair
>> 125 hours
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Brandon-
>>> Are you happy with the AeroVee carb? After
>>> talking to the people at the Brampford, Ont. fly-in,
>>> I swapped my big tank for an 8 gal header and plan
>>> on using locker tanks so I can use the AeroVee.
>>> Not too many HDS builders these days!
>>> Bill Naumuk
>>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>> Townville, Pa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
>> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
Jeff, would you please describe the fuel lines routing you mentioned?
Would you have a picture or diagram to share?
Thanks in advance
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
On 16/12/2007, Jeff <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yes indeed. The Zenith placement of the gascolator raises a lot of
> questions. I put mine in the traditional place on the engine side of the
> firewall too. I used the Check design for routing the lines from the LE
> tanks to the gascolator. This was the setup in N601VA, the first certified
> 601.
>
>
> Jeff Davidson
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Building on a budget - alternative engines for the 701. |
Have you looked at the new Verner engines with a redrive? Similar to the HKS, made
in Czec Republic, a little more HP than the HKS. I hear they are supposed
to be a much better setup than the older belt reduction models.
Tom
--------
Share your flying and buildng videos. Log on to the-vlogger.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152521#152521
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| Subject: | Is check valve in fuel return line needed? |
Hi folks
Is there a need for a check valve in the fuel return line (vapour lock return line)?
Engine will be the Rotax 912ULS.
Cheers Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152523#152523
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs) |
Iberplanes wrote:
> anybody know if it is possible to order this gas struts direct from Zenith when
ordering the canopy?
I am considering ordering the canopy kit from Zenith - minus the gas struts and
the bubble, as it appears that there are superior substitutions available for
both.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152524#152524
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
Do you have a cabin heat system? Where is the air for that system coming
from? Some of the earlier Jabiru exhaust system had problems with
cracking welds. Check your exhaust system for leaks, make sure your
cabin heat system is not ingesting contaminated air.
BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
>
> to all
> i have a 601 XL with the Jabiru 3300. during the summer i accumulated about 50
hrs and had no problem with carbon monoxide. when it got colder and i closed
the NACA air vents my CO monitor turned black in less than 2 tenths of an hour.
i got a headache and nauseated very quickly. when i noticed the monitor i opened
the vents and landed immediately. when the vents are open the cabin area
is pressurized and apparently keeps the CO out. When they are closed you can
watch the monitor start turning darker in a very short time. has anyone noticed
this and how can it be fixed. i have exhaust stains on the lower firewall and
all along the belly. my steering rods to the nose wheel are sealed somewhat
but i am planning to make them air tight. this is a very dangerous situation
and i need to find a solution fast
>
> please help,
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
I am somewhat conflicted. I have a WW Corvair engine in my 601XL. Both exhaust
pipes exit below and behind the lower part of the cowling. I have a heat muff
on the left pipe for cabin heat. I have it connected with scat to a firewall
mounted flapper control box. The box has no provision for dumping waste air.
The heat muff has an open flange to let air in. I don't have it connected
to a NACA inlet at present. My thinking is that there will be enough air through
the baffled engine cooling fins, and there will be enough pressure to supply
cabin heat air. I know that this arrangement would allow exhaust fumes into
the cabin in the event of a cracked exhaust pipe. However, the WW exhaust pipes
are are so simple that they are not likely to crack. Or are they? Should
I go with the NACA intake and make provisions to dump waste air when the cabin
heat valve is closed?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Do you have a cabin heat system? Where is the air for that system coming
>from? Some of the earlier Jabiru exhaust system had problems with
>cracking welds. Check your exhaust system for leaks, make sure your
>cabin heat system is not ingesting contaminated air.
>
>BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> to all
>> i have a 601 XL with the Jabiru 3300. during the summer i accumulated about
50 hrs and had no problem with carbon monoxide. when it got colder and i closed
the NACA air vents my CO monitor turned black in less than 2 tenths of an hour.
i got a headache and nauseated very quickly. when i noticed the monitor i
opened the vents and landed immediately. when the vents are open the cabin area
is pressurized and apparently keeps the CO out. When they are closed you can
watch the monitor start turning darker in a very short time. has anyone noticed
this and how can it be fixed. i have exhaust stains on the lower firewall and
all along the belly. my steering rods to the nose wheel are sealed somewhat
but i am planning to make them air tight. this is a very dangerous situation
and i need to find a solution fast
>>
>> please help,
>>
>
>--
>Bryan Martin
>Zenith 601XL N61BM
>Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
>Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | N601EL receives E-LSA certification! |
It's been a grueling last few weeks in trying to get ready for the DAR Dec
15th inspection of N601EL but it's finished and so am I, just about!
I want to thank everyone who has helped me find parts, provide drawings,
send photos, help out at the hangar, lend support and in general for being
there. It really does take a lot of collaboration to finish one of these
things and after four years, I am extremely happy about having the pink slip
for this aircraft!
Thanks again!
Scott Thatcher
GraphiTech Computer Systems
http://www.graphitech.com
800-634-8324
Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
601XL with Corvair, still 99%complete but with E-LSA certification
N601EL
Message 19
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| Subject: | Is check valve in fuel return line needed? |
Martin--
I did not use a check valve on my return line. There is a restricter in
the return line with about a .3mm hole in it so there is not much fuel tha
t flows through the line. The engine end of the line is also significantly
higher that the termination at the tank. I think when I did my fuel flow t
ests with just the electrical pump on the fuel returned through this line w
as about 13 ounces
George May
601XL 912s 174hours> Subject: Zenith-List: Is check valve in fuel return li
ne needed?> From: mpohl@pohltec.ch> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:21:42 -0800>
Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>> > Hi folks> > Is there a need for a check valve
in the fuel return line (vapour lock return line)? Engine will be the Rotax
912ULS.> > Cheers Martin> > --------> Martin Pohl> Zodiac XL QBK> 8645 Jon
a, Switzerland> www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL> > > > > Read this topic online her
e:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152523#152523> > > > >
====> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_1220
07
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs) |
I can't remember if I got my fishing license...
Paul
321PT
Please do not archive this.
Message 21
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Jay,
Your set up is time tested in countless small A/C dating back to the 40's,
and exactly what WW promotes. Inspections should include opening the heat
muff and visually inspecting the exhaust pipe. Maybe you would add a simple
cockpit sensor for piece of mind.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: carbon monoxide
I am somewhat conflicted. I have a WW Corvair engine in my 601XL. Both
exhaust pipes exit below and behind the lower part of the cowling. I have a
heat muff on the left pipe for cabin heat. I have it connected with scat to
a firewall mounted flapper control box. The box has no provision for
dumping waste air. The heat muff has an open flange to let air in. I don't
have it connected to a NACA inlet at present. My thinking is that there
will be enough air through the baffled engine cooling fins, and there will
be enough pressure to supply cabin heat air. I know that this arrangement
would allow exhaust fumes into the cabin in the event of a cracked exhaust
pipe. However, the WW exhaust pipes are are so simple that they are not
likely to crack. Or are they? Should I go with the NACA intake and make
provisions to dump waste air when the cabin heat valve is closed?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Do you have a cabin heat system? Where is the air for that system coming
>from? Some of the earlier Jabiru exhaust system had problems with
>cracking welds. Check your exhaust system for leaks, make sure your
>cabin heat system is not ingesting contaminated air.
>
>BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> to all
>> i have a 601 XL with the Jabiru 3300. during the summer i accumulated
about 50 hrs and had no problem with carbon monoxide. when it got colder and
i closed the NACA air vents my CO monitor turned black in less than 2 tenths
of an hour. i got a headache and nauseated very quickly. when i noticed the
monitor i opened the vents and landed immediately. when the vents are open
the cabin area is pressurized and apparently keeps the CO out. When they are
closed you can watch the monitor start turning darker in a very short time.
has anyone noticed this and how can it be fixed. i have exhaust stains on
the lower firewall and all along the belly. my steering rods to the nose
wheel are sealed somewhat but i am planning to make them air tight. this is
a very dangerous situation and i need to find a solution fast
>>
>> please help,
>>
>
>--
>Bryan Martin
>Zenith 601XL N61BM
>Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
>Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: N601EL receives E-LSA certification! |
Congratulations Scott. What a unique Christmas present to receive, and a
few days early at that! We look forward to hearing about the test
flights.
Dred
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs) |
Patrick,
If possible when you order your struts, order them direct from the
distributor where Zenith gets them. They will be a lot cheaper and the
same thing. If ordered from zenith, they cost more and you will also be
charged for shipping from the distributor to Zenith and again from
Zenith to you. The distributing Company name is McMaster-Carr, their
web site: http//www.McMaster.com/,
the 60# Gas Strut (Spring) stock number is 9416K123, and the cost per
strut is $9.88 each plus shipping. My shipping for two was $5.00, yours
may be more or less. The 40# strut furnished by Zenith with the
Zodiac601XL kit canopy is way too weak for the application. Good luck
with your building.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:22 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs)
>
>
> Iberplanes wrote:
>> anybody know if it is possible to order this gas struts direct from
Zenith when ordering the canopy?
>
> I am considering ordering the canopy kit from Zenith - minus the gas
struts and the bubble, as it appears that there are superior
substitutions available for both.
>
> Patrick
> XL/Corvair
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152524#152524
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Building on a budget - alternative engines for the 701. |
Check out www.ulpower.com. This looks like a great design. The downside is
(again) cost. It's expected to cost as much as a Rotax 912.
Dale
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
My champ (built in 1946) uses a similar system with the exception that one side
of the muff is connected to a flange on the front baffle just inside the cowling
intakes. This ram air provides a little more pressure to push the air thru
the heat muff into the cabin. The box on the firewall does have an opening
to dump the waste air when cabin heat is not desired. The Champ's cabin has a
lot of air leaks so the heat isn't too effective.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152561#152561
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
Yes - In Chip Erwin's factory. ZAC and Erwin ended their relationship a
while back, but the Chechoslovakia plans were available over the internet.
I short, they run the fuel lines to the fuel selector on the console, then
down aluminum tube to the firewall and through to the gascolator on the
lower right corner of the firewall on the engine side of the firewall. The
gascolator ends up in the same place as it is on my club 172M. The first
certificate 601 in the US was a Check built plane with a 912S.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:22 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
I think he is referring to 601's as built in Czechoslovakia.
Tim
do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152514#152514
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs) |
I walked into the NAPA auto parts store and on the wall wer "Dozens" of
gas struts. Used on cars for trunk lids etc, they hadall kinds of
lengths and sizes....
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs)
Patrick,
If possible when you order your struts, order them direct from
the distributor where Zenith gets them. They will be a lot cheaper and
the same thing. If ordered from zenith, they cost more and you will
also be charged for shipping from the distributor to Zenith and again
from Zenith to you. The distributing Company name is McMaster-Carr,
their web site: http//www.McMaster.com/,
the 60# Gas Strut (Spring) stock number is 9416K123, and the cost per
strut is $9.88 each plus shipping. My shipping for two was $5.00, yours
may be more or less. The 40# strut furnished by Zenith with the
Zodiac601XL kit canopy is way too weak for the application. Good luck
with your building.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:22 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Gas Struts (Springs)
>
>
> Iberplanes wrote:
>> anybody know if it is possible to order this gas struts direct
from Zenith when ordering the canopy?
>
> I am considering ordering the canopy kit from Zenith - minus the gas
struts and the bubble, as it appears that there are superior
substitutions available for both.
>
> Patrick
> XL/Corvair
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152524#152524
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free Contribution Web
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
> Zenith-List Un/Subscription,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> ==========
> bsp; via the
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: N601EL receives E-LSA certification! |
Scott,
Congratulations, now the fun really begins. Fly safe, and Merry Christmas.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152564#152564
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Building on a budget - alternative engines for the 701. |
Randy,
While youre waiting to decide the engine why not get on with the airframe. The
scenery keeps changing with engine setups and that decision only needs finalizing
before you do the mounts and cowl.
I will add comment on the engines I personally know of in the 701.
1/The HKS never performed enough on the ground to risk flight. It was replaced
with a Corvair which climbed tremendously well but the aircraft could not travel
anywhere for long other than solo (load and endurance limited) It has been
replaced with a Jabiru 2200 which goes just as fast, climbs half as good, but
can carry full load the full distance.
2/The BMW 2 cyl. motor didnt work very well and has been replaced by a Rotax 532.
This aircraft performs similar to my own 1100 lbs J2200 powered plane, but
it is the earlier 960 lbs model.
3/VW air cooled with redrive performed well however overheated requiring rebuild
in first 40 hrs. Cooling issues are likely to be fixable, as the cowl was an
adapted one not setup for air cooling.
4/912 / 912S these seem to be the engine of choice, cost permitting, although the
912S with the tray mounting is not as smooth and cracks occur to the H stab
attachments on models that dont have the updates.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152569#152569
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| Subject: | Re: N601EL receives E-LSA certification! |
CONGRATS and BE Careful ! !
--------
Low & Slow
Rick
www.n701rr.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152570#152570
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
Carlos,
Attached is a picture that shows the aluminum fuel line going
from the Andair selector valve running to the firewall and down to a AN
bulkhead fitting on the lower right. The Gascolator is on the other side of
the bulkhead fitting. The standard ZAC quarter inch inside diameter
synthetic rubber fuel lines come from each leading edge fuel tank through a
filter and Facet pump next to the tanks to the selector valve. Fuel
pressure sensor, 3300 mechanical pump, and final filter are in front of the
firewall.
Jeff
Jeff, would you please describe the fuel lines routing you mentioned?
Would you have a picture or diagram to share?
Thanks in advance
Carlos
On 16/12/2007, Jeff <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net> wrote:
Yes indeed. The Zenith placement of the gascolator raises a lot of
questions. I put mine in the traditional place on the engine side of the
firewall too. I used the Check design for routing the lines from the LE
tanks to the gascolator. This was the setup in N601VA, the first certified
601.
Jeff Davidson
Message 32
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| Subject: | 601 and wing failiers |
My wife's cousin has just about finished building a Challenger. And would like
to build a cross country airplane. I suggested the 601, but he has heard of the
recent wing issues. Well I don't want to research it in detail, but my gut
feeling is that there is a common thread between them. I may be wrong and I don't
want to started a lengthly read. But, does any one happen to have the particulars?
He was adamant that the 601 was not safe, I don't believe it is true, but what
can I say? He is wanting a project and a faster plane at low cost, so a scratch
built 601 right!
Thanks
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152572#152572
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
Just about everyone has a different idea on this topic.
My thoughts are, I am comfortable with my rubber bellows packed full of
ceramic wool. It takes 2400+ degrees f to degrade this material. I have
seen several guys build some pretty nifty slider/shutters to seal up tho
se pesky steering rod slots. If you get a fire hot enough to burn up my
style of seal then it will weld up the slider/shutters till they won't o
perate. On landing the steering rods are gonna move up and down and left
and right, with those sliders/shutters rigid there is a good posibility
you will lose control and crash. The zenith design is somewhat problema
tic so each to their own when it comes to sealing up those slots. Rememb
er, the steering rods are moving in two axis's, up and down and side to
side. I hope to never test my design because there is two things that s
care the crap out of me. One is burning to death in a plane or racecar a
nd the other is suffacating while buried in an avalanche. As for you th
oughts on the cowling, you are 100% correct, if the fire is that intense
to start burning through the firewall and its thru connectors the cowli
ng is going to be burning like Richard Pryor on crack running down the r
oad. YMMV.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net> wrote:
I really like Larry's sandwich construct to close off the slots. However
, I'm concerned that there will still not be an effective fire barrier.
I haven't begun to design it yet, but I'm thinking combining Larry's san
dwich with something like the eyeball fittings sold by Van's, Cat No. EY
EBALL TTP-125
http://tinyurl.com/2t6rwd
to provide a better seal.
I haven't looked at heater valve supplied with my FWF kit. But I'm consi
dering the stainless steel heater valve sold by epm.av:
http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html
I also like their firewall penetration systems.
Then, again, I wonder, does it make sense to work to really seal the fir
e wall when the cowl is epoxy-fiberglass composite, and the only thing b
etween me and a fire coming out of the cowl is a Plexiglass canopy? I re
ally don't know.
Any thoughts?
Terry
At 12:44 PM 12/15/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Bobby,
I put a sealed sandwich construct behind the slots that is held by two b
olts. An O-ring grommet fits the steering rod and effectively seals th
e opening.
Not hard to make as an afterthought. Install should be the same. See li
nk,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-bar
rier.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-bar
rier-2.gif
Put a little silicone seal around the edge toward the firewall and allow
the slider with grommet to move up, down and a small amount sideways an
d you've got it.
I'd also suggest you extend your exhaust pipe(s) to one side and or behi
nd the firewall.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
to all
i have a 601 XL with the Jabiru 3300. during the summer i accumulated ab
out 50 hrs and had no problem with carbon monoxide. when it got colder a
nd i closed the NACA air vents my CO monitor turned black in less than 2
tenths of an hour. i got a headache and nauseated very quickly. when i
noticed the monitor i opened the vents and landed immediately. when the
vents are open the cabin area is pressurized and apparently keeps the CO
out. When they are closed you can watch the monitor start turning darke
r in a very short time. has anyone noticed this and how can it be fixed.
i have exhaust stains on the lower firewall and all along the belly. my
steering rods to the nose wheel are sealed somewhat but i am planning
to make them air tight. this is a very dangerous situation and i need to
find a solution fast
please help,
Bobby Paulk
N131BP
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail (almost) finished; working on the w
ings
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
===============
_____________________________________________________________
Click here if you're tired of your job and want to increase your salary.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4s1hkKIgVqT9PzIOZYf
GjUkGdcsft48Q6bfyYWfF0nb2bKVk/
Message 34
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I had trouble with the forward seals on the canopy. Just could not get the
ones in the kit to work to my satisfaction. I looked at Spruce and Wicks
for something better. I ended up a Lowes. Yes I go there a lot. I found a
garage door seal that looked like it would work. I ended up trimming it
slightly but I am really happy with the end result.
Check out my website if you want to look.
http://www.zodiacxl.com/Canopy%202.htm
Getting close to moving to the hangar!
Merry Christmas and Happy building.
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 601 and wing failiers |
Hi Kevin,
The short answer is: Maybe there is a problem and maybe not.
I am aware of 4 different incidents with Zodiac XLs that involved
structural failure and loss of life. One was a new Sport Pilot who
decided to depart in IMC. One was a mid-air collision with a C-172
(I think). One was a plane that had just been reassembled after sale
from one owner to another that came apart in the traffic
pattern. The last one was one that came apart in mid-flight cruise
after making some vibration noises and unusual engine sounds.
Considering how many Zodiacs are flying around this is alarming but
not enough to say it is a dangerous design. Yes, the XL is the
newest member of the Zodiac family so it is not necessarily fair to
group all the Zodiacs in this class. Still, there are many of us
continuing to build and fly XLs and we are happy to do so. Yes,
there is a nagging concern we all feel, but it isn't enough to stop many of us.
I don't know how this accident record compares to other kit
planes. It certainly is better than some factory built planes in the
past (I am thinking of Yankees and Swifts, and all the V-tail
Bonanzas that broke up in flight). There are many other designs and
some might be better or just experience a little more good luck and a
little less bad luck,
Flying is a dangerous activity and when you do it in planes built by
first time amateurs the danger is certainly increased. If you want a
really safe hobby perhaps you should consider taking up knitting.
Paul
XL fuselage - installing engine
At 02:42 PM 12/16/2007, you wrote:
>
>My wife's cousin has just about finished building a Challenger. And
>would like to build a cross country airplane. I suggested the 601,
>but he has heard of the recent wing issues. Well I don't want to
>research it in detail, but my gut feeling is that there is a common
>thread between them. I may be wrong and I don't want to started a
>lengthly read. But, does any one happen to have the particulars?
>
>He was adamant that the 601 was not safe, I don't believe it is
>true, but what can I say? He is wanting a project and a faster plane
>at low cost, so a scratch built 601 right!
>
>Thanks
>
>Kevin
>
>------
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: 601 and wing failiers |
The issue of wing failures and the safety of the 601 design has been hashed out,
debated, speculated on, and generally beaten to death in previous threads.
A simple search of the archives will bring you up to speed.
Not being a structural, mechanical, or aeronautical engineer, I can't say with
any authority that the design is safe or unsafe. However, the few past wing failures
appear to be a result of pilot error or ambiguous mechanical defects.
No one knows for sure.
The conclusion I draw is that the 601 is safe based on the ample number of planes
that are flying that haven't had wing failures. Considering that most 601's
are assembled by amateur airplane builders with out any quality control measures
as would be expected in a manufacturing setting, it is not outside the realm
of possibility that a few 601's may have been built to substandard levels
and therefore turned out unsafe.
The bottom line is that you either trust the designer and the design or you don't.
I don't think it makes any sense to try and convince someone the plane is
safe if they already have made up their minds that indeed it is not.
Good Luck,
Ken Pavlou
601 XL / Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152593#152593
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy seals |
nice job. you will have a seal problem though where you have the two hatch cover
hinges. try putting an auto trim seal on the inside. high density foam trim
from auito shop. works welll. when the hatch is shut the window trim just
sits ahead of it. I tryed it and the plane is dry flying in florida rains. best
bet thugh is turn hinge completely around so they sit flush. They open just
fine that way as well.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt & Jo <archermj@swbell.net>
>Sent: Dec 16, 2007 7:36 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy seals
>
>
>I had trouble with the forward seals on the canopy. Just could not get the
>ones in the kit to work to my satisfaction. I looked at Spruce and Wicks
>for something better. I ended up a Lowes. Yes I go there a lot. I found a
>garage door seal that looked like it would work. I ended up trimming it
>slightly but I am really happy with the end result.
>
>Check out my website if you want to look.
>
>http://www.zodiacxl.com/Canopy%202.htm
>
>Getting close to moving to the hangar!
>
>Merry Christmas and Happy building.
>
>Matt
>www.zodiacxl.com
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
a simple idea is to follow the plans. The design for where the gascolator is popular
on aircraft in europe,keeps gas from vapor locking, works good. I believe
some AMD aircraft had an AD on gascoloator placement.
stick to the plans.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Dec 16, 2007 10:46 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
>Yes indeed. The Zenith placement of the gascolator raises a lot of
>questions. I put mine in the traditional place on the engine side of the
>firewall too. I used the Check design for routing the lines from the LE
>tanks to the gascolator. This was the setup in N601VA, the first certified
>601.
>
>
>
>Jeff Davidson
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
>Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:05 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>The factory recommended placement of the gascolator was my first
>disapointment in the design. I aint never going to have a source of a gas
>leak in my cabin area. I know Mooney has the same setup but I placed my
>gascolater as Cessna and Piper do, on the engine side of the firewall...
>
>SW
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Craig Payne <mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:05 AM
>
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>Of course if you place the gascolator where the plans call for it (poking
>through the floor just in front of the center spar) then you have a nice
>hole well behind the end of most exhaust pipes. And with its wire bale the
>gascolator supplied by Zenith is hard to seal up.
>
>
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
>Unternaehrer
>Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:53 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>There has been a lot of discussion on this thread. What doesn't seem to be
>talked about much is keeping the differential pressure positive in the cabin
>vs the upper engine high pressure area. Sealing the firewall is important,
>especially on the high pressure side, but getting the exhaust out of the
>cowl area is also important and mentioned below. Don't depend on any
>firewall seal in the long run. Bob U.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Tim Juhl <mailto:juhl@avci.net>
>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:03 PM
>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>
>Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out as well.
>
>The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would suggest that the
>exhaust pipe does not penetrate far enough into the slipstream to carry the
>exhaust away. Obviously you don't want to be dumping exhaust into the
>engine compartment.
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
>
>
><Bp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link
>Free href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;
>Features Chat, --> http://www.matron======================
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
>bsp; via the Web
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>==========
>
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
>"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http
>://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
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For the life of me I cant figure out how to::::
Find where to drill the aluminum trim on the front of the canopy. I ve
drilled the plastic canopy itself and went on thru to the aluminum tube
frame. Thats easy. Now I want to install the aluminum sheet that
covers the front of the tube/plastic.
Hope I m making scense.....
SW
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: carbon monoxide |
Juan,
You need to remember that there were no fuel system plans for the HD
other than the single header tank. My ATP wife nixed that idea right off
despite having hundreds of hours of Cub time. Even after the HD Leading
Edge fuel tank option was developed, and I bought the kit from ZAC, there
was no published design. So I drew it up and got Chris Heintz to review my
plan by via snail mail. There are a lot of posts in the archives about fuel
systems from that time frame.
Jeff Davidson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
a simple idea is to follow the plans. The design for where the gascolator
is popular on aircraft in europe,keeps gas from vapor locking, works good.
I believe some AMD aircraft had an AD on gascoloator placement.
stick to the plans.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Dec 16, 2007 10:46 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
>Yes indeed. The Zenith placement of the gascolator raises a lot of
>questions. I put mine in the traditional place on the engine side of the
>firewall too. I used the Check design for routing the lines from the LE
>tanks to the gascolator. This was the setup in N601VA, the first certified
>601.
>
>
>
>Jeff Davidson
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
>Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:05 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>The factory recommended placement of the gascolator was my first
>disapointment in the design. I aint never going to have a source of a gas
>leak in my cabin area. I know Mooney has the same setup but I placed my
>gascolater as Cessna and Piper do, on the engine side of the firewall...
>
>SW
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Craig Payne <mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:05 AM
>
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>Of course if you place the gascolator where the plans call for it (poking
>through the floor just in front of the center spar) then you have a nice
>hole well behind the end of most exhaust pipes. And with its wire bale the
>gascolator supplied by Zenith is hard to seal up.
>
>
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
>Unternaehrer
>Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:53 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>There has been a lot of discussion on this thread. What doesn't seem to be
>talked about much is keeping the differential pressure positive in the
cabin
>vs the upper engine high pressure area. Sealing the firewall is important,
>especially on the high pressure side, but getting the exhaust out of the
>cowl area is also important and mentioned below. Don't depend on any
>firewall seal in the long run. Bob U.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Tim Juhl <mailto:juhl@avci.net>
>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:03 PM
>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: carbon monoxide
>
>
>
>
>Do you have a cabin heat system? If yes, it should be checked out as well.
>
>The existance of exhaust stains on the lower firewall would suggest that
the
>exhaust pipe does not penetrate far enough into the slipstream to carry the
>exhaust away. Obviously you don't want to be dumping exhaust into the
>engine compartment.
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152472#152472
>
>
><Bp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link
>Free
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;
>Features Chat, --> http://www.matron======================
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
>bsp; via the Web
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>==========
>
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
>"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="htt
p
>://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 601 and wing failiers |
I'm aware of three in-flight failures with 601 XLs.
One was a homebuilt recently bought by a new owner and reassembled for a
test flight. Speculation is that the rear wing spar bolts weren't
installed properly. The post crash fire destroyed most of the fuselage
so the NTSB report was inconclusive as the the cause of the failure.
The second involved a non-instrument rated pilot taking off in marginal
weather that rapidly deteriorated into IMC. There were reports of
thunderstorms in the area at the time of the crash. Speculation is that
the pilot either encountered severe turbulence or became disoriented and
lost control and overstressed the airplane.
The third crash involved a factory built S-LSA that apparently suffered
an in-flight explosion. Some kind of fuel or engine problems had been
reported on previous flights.
kmccune wrote:
>
> My wife's cousin has just about finished building a Challenger. And would like
to build a cross country airplane. I suggested the 601, but he has heard of
the recent wing issues. Well I don't want to research it in detail, but my gut
feeling is that there is a common thread between them. I may be wrong and I
don't want to started a lengthly read. But, does any one happen to have the particulars?
>
> He was adamant that the 601 was not safe, I don't believe it is true, but what
can I say? He is wanting a project and a faster plane at low cost, so a scratch
built 601 right!
>
> Thanks
>
> Kevin
>
> --------
> Kevin
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: 601 and wing failiers |
[Laughing] I trust the wings of my 601 but helped with some insurance [Laughing]
--------
Have fun fly save
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152643#152643
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0025_173.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: 601 and wing failiers |
> I trust the wings of my 601 but helped with some insurance
[Shocked] Funny!
Is that modification patented? What thickness duct tape did you use? Have you
run it by Zenith yet?
Ken Pavlou
601 XL / Corvair[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152645#152645
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: 601 and wing failiers |
8) don't know how thick ,is already patented
Scotch All-Weather Duct Tape
Apollo 13 astronauts used it for repairs and the Apollo 17 astronauts to keep
dust off the lunar rovers fenders; it is now policy to have a roll on every space
shuttle mission [Idea] Ron in a can't fly to rainy Mission B.C. good o'l
Canada
do not archive [Crying or Very sad]
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Have fun fly save
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