Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:01 AM - Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it safe? (Trainnut01@aol.com)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it safe? (Art Olechowski)
3. 07:27 AM - (Jaybannist@cs.com)
4. 08:04 AM - Re: (no subject) (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
5. 08:35 AM - Trailering Fuse options (Jon Croke)
6. 08:38 AM - Re: (Clyde Barcus)
7. 08:38 AM - Re: No Title (Tim Juhl)
8. 08:44 AM - Re: Fairing the XL gascolator (Tim Juhl)
9. 08:49 AM - Re: Trailering Fuse options (Jaybannist@cs.com)
10. 09:05 AM - Re: Trailer mods for an XL (LarryMcFarland)
11. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Fairing the XL gascolator (Juan Vega)
12. 09:20 AM - Re: (James Sagerser)
13. 09:46 AM - Re: test (LRM)
14. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it safe? (LRM)
15. 10:18 AM - Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass through (Terry Phillips)
16. 10:33 AM - Re: (robert stone)
17. 10:50 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce Streamline Tubing (ricklach)
18. 11:13 AM - trailer a fuselage (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
19. 11:23 AM - Re: trailer (Craig Payne)
20. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it safe? (LarryMcFarland)
21. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it safe? (Joemotis@aol.com)
22. 02:02 PM - 701 firewall forward package (Jerry Hey)
23. 02:08 PM - 701 Firwall forward package (Jerry Hey)
24. 02:19 PM - Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it safe? (AB_Summit)
25. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it (MaxNr@aol.com)
26. 02:52 PM - To The Airport (Jaybannist@cs.com)
27. 03:34 PM - Re: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass through (george may)
28. 03:53 PM - Re: 701 Firwall forward package (jhines)
29. 04:56 PM - 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? (PatrickW)
30. 05:03 PM - Re: 701 Firewall forward package (Craig Payne)
31. 05:03 PM - Re: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass through (Carl)
32. 05:07 PM - Re: Fairing the XL gascolator (Mack Kreizenbeck)
33. 05:33 PM - Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? (Paul Mulwitz)
34. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it (Terry Turnquist)
35. 06:05 PM - Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it (AB_Summit)
36. 06:20 PM - Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? (Ronald Steele)
37. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: 701 Firwall forward package (LRM)
38. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it safe? (LRM)
39. 07:02 PM - Re: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass through (Juan Vega)
40. 07:22 PM - Re: Re: 701 Firwall forward package (Jerry Hey)
41. 07:45 PM - Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? (Bryan Martin)
42. 11:33 PM - A *flying* electric airplane (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it |
safe?
Terry
IN a word-AMEN!
Carroll
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it |
safe?
Damn well said Terry, I totally agree. If the member chooses to build an airframe/powerplant
combination as such lets support him rather than deter him from his dream.
Art
--- Terry Turnquist <ter_turn@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The golden years of experimental aviation reached it's peak (probably in the
sixties and
> seventies) and went into a steep decline, which is now reflected in the false
illusion that
> safety is achievable only by using factory built parts.I wasn't a builder then,
but you can
> imagine a lone figure toiling in his garage on a project, with no Internet, no
builder forums,
> few good reference books, but a lot of ingenuity and common sense. Those days
are long gone.
> Many pilots will just shell out the ninety grand for a factory built sport plane
and leave the
> building to the few true experimenters who love to create. There's nothing wrong
with that
> approach but don't try to stifle the enthusiasm of the guy who wants to try to
build his own
> dream with limited resources but a lot of heart.
>
> When many in my fathers generation dreamed of home ownership they bought a piece
of land, and
> took shovel to dirt and started building. Now we're told you have to have an
Architecual
> drawing, soil analysis by a professional and a certified landscape company to
plant your grass,
> and whatever you do, don't try to do your own interior decorating, the paint
fumes may explode!
>
> This afternoon we should all tip our glass to the guys that went before and flew
that creation
> with the model "A" engine sputtering while spinning that homemade wood prop!
>
> Terry Turnquist
> 601 XL Plans
> St. Peters, MO
>
> Joemotis@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/29/2007 10:06:04 A.M. Pacific
Standard Time,
> wr.giacona@suddenlink.net writes:
> http://forums.matronics.com But those that go about designing such conversions need to either
> have at least some experience with aircraft power plants or a real strong background
in
> engineering.
>
> I disagree, trial and error teaches many things. And it
would be
> great to see this 150 HP in an aircraft. Quite a lot
is already
> known about conversions and heck, a redrive is
the same
> thing in principle as the jackshaft I installed on
a Bonaza mini
> bike toaccomadate the Hodaka Ace 90 that was replacing
the Mac 9.
> This Yamaha 4 stroke seems to me a good place to
start if
> one was so inclined.
>
> Many a failed attempt at something quite often turns
out be
> quite an educational experience.
>
> Joe Motis
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/jdmotis/Genesis150_tcm26-67175.jpg
>
>
>
> top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 3
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Listers,
I'm sure some of you have faced this: I am very near the point of moving my fuselage
to the airport. I planned on renting a truck to take it there. However,
I have not been able to find a rental truck that is wide enough for the main
gear. Most rental companies have trucks that are around 7'-6" wide. As you
know, the gear is a little over 8'-0" wide. I just don't think it is feasible
to transport the fuselage without the gear in place.
I have a small (Harbor Freight) trailer that is 4' x 8'. At one point, I designed
outriggers to support the main gear wheels, using the 2" x 2" steel tubes
bought for airplane construction. It fits, but I'm afraid that this trailer is
too light and would bounce too much and damage something.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
Any suggestions?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
The best way to transport it is on a 14 or 16 foot trailer. You put 2 4x4's
on the top rails and set the main tires between them and then nail some 2x4
blocks on each side if the tires. The front tire can sit on 3 or 4 pallets.
Strap the tires good then off you go.
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Trailering Fuse options |
I'm sure some of you have faced this: I am very near the point of
moving my fuselage to the airport. I planned on renting a truck to take
it there. However, I have not been able to find a rental truck that is
w
Here is another inexpensive option (worked fine) that someone used: (and
it was easy to load/unload) (made a 200 mi trip)
Message 6
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Jay,
I have hauled a lot over the years on commercial trailers and those I have
built myself, everything from a few hundred pounds to a few thousand. I
would not hesitate to haul it on a small trailer, the weight is distributed
through the landing gear so overhang doesn't mean much unless you are
traveling at high speed or in very windy conditions, I am assuming you are
not traveling very far so time isn't a big deal. As far as the rough ride,
my dual axle trailer that I recently sold needed weight for a reasonable
ride simply because of heavy duty springs, after all, that is what it was
built for. Strap it down tight, travel slow and it will be just fine, the
ride will be no worst than flying in bad weather.
Best Regards
Clyde
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:25 AM
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm sure some of you have faced this: I am very near the point of moving
> my fuselage to the airport. I planned on renting a truck to take it there.
> However, I have not been able to find a rental truck that is wide enough
> for the main gear. Most rental companies have trucks that are around
> 7'-6" wide. As you know, the gear is a little over 8'-0" wide. I just
> don't think it is feasible to transport the fuselage without the gear in
> place.
>
> I have a small (Harbor Freight) trailer that is 4' x 8'. At one point, I
> designed outriggers to support the main gear wheels, using the 2" x 2"
> steel tubes bought for airplane construction. It fits, but I'm afraid
> that this trailer is too light and would bounce too much and damage
> something.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
Message 7
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A few questions -
1.) How far do you have to go?
2.) Can you take back roads or lesser traveled streets and what condition are they
in?
For trips of just a few miles it is sometimes possible to set the nose or tailwheel
on a low trailer or dolly and pull the fuselage behind the car. At our airport
we've done that a number of times.... you just can't be in a hurry.
When I need to move something farther I usually scout out a friend who has a big
trailer that they use for hauling cars or machinery. There are several in
my area. I have a small truck that can pull a good sized trailer but in some cases
they loan me the truck to pull it as well. Another option is find someone
around you that routinely hauls things like bulldozers or earth movers. Hire
them to haul your fuselage on one of their trailers. They won't mind you nailing
a few boards on the deck to hold the wheels in place. Be careful what you
hook your straps to so nothing gets bent if you bounce the trailer a few times.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154994#154994
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing the XL gascolator |
Firewall mounting is common on any number of planes, although Cessnas are high
wing which is a little different issue. The main thing to remember is that the
gascolator should be at the low point of the fuel system. CH's original design
assures that it is.
I have not made a final determination of gascolator location but I like the idea
of having the gascolator a straight drop below the fuel selector. I would,
however, install a deflector / fairing if I put it in that location inasmuch as
I do a fair amount of operations off grass strips.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154997#154997
Message 9
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| Subject: | Trailering Fuse options |
Jon,
That looks about like what I had planned for my trailer, except that the trailer
in the photo is probably a LOT heavier than mine.
Thanks, Jay
"Jon Croke" <Jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
>I'm sure some of you have faced this: I am very near the point of moving my fuselage
to the airport. I planned on renting a truck to take it there. However,
I have not been able to find a rental truck that is w
>
>Here is another inexpensive option (worked fine) that someone used: (and it was
easy to load/unload) (made a 200 mi trip)
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Trailer mods for an XL |
Hi Jay,
I think you're on the right track and a 4 x 8 trailer might be just a
little narrow. A snowmobile trailer is wider than most, probably 7'-6".
Getting on the trailer is the problem, so I'd be inclined to make an
angle frame the 8' width to support the main gear. Make an offset steel bar
center skid with caster rollers and inverse angles each side that will
center the frame going onto the trailer. Use a $25 cable-winch to pull the
nose gear and the wide frame behind up onto the trailer. You may need a
pair of bolt-on ramps to get it on and off
again, but c-clamps will hold the sides once in position and ratchet
straps would secure the gear to the wide frame.
Get someone to drive behind your trailer and have him run safety
flashers for a wide load, negate the need for turn signals and brake lights.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm sure some of you have faced this: I am very near the point of moving my
fuselage to the airport. I planned on renting a truck to take it there. However,
I have not been able to find a rental truck that is wide enough for the main
gear. Most rental companies have trucks that are around 7'-6" wide. As you
know, the gear is a little over 8'-0" wide. I just don't think it is feasible
to transport the fuselage without the gear in place.
>
> I have a small (Harbor Freight) trailer that is 4' x 8'. At one point, I designed
outriggers to support the main gear wheels, using the 2" x 2" steel tubes
bought for airplane construction. It fits, but I'm afraid that this trailer
is too light and would bounce too much and damage something.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing the XL gascolator |
many certifiied planes have the gscolator in the same spot as the 601's. look
at the scottish aviation bulldog, or the Diamond aircrafts DA 40 and 20.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>
>Sent: Dec 30, 2007 11:44 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fairing the XL gascolator
>
>
>Firewall mounting is common on any number of planes, although Cessnas are high
wing which is a little different issue. The main thing to remember is that the
gascolator should be at the low point of the fuel system. CH's original design
assures that it is.
>
>I have not made a final determination of gascolator location but I like the idea
of having the gascolator a straight drop below the fuel selector. I would,
however, install a deflector / fairing if I put it in that location inasmuch
as I do a fair amount of operations off grass strips.
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on fuselage
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154997#154997
>
>
Message 12
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I also have a Harbor Freight trailer that is 4x8, 12" tires, and a
GVW of 1980lbs. It was way too stiff to haul a light fuselage so
removed two of the springs on each side. I took my fuselage (without
engine) on a roundtrip of 3,600 miles with no problems.
On Dec 30, 2007, at 8:25 AM, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm sure some of you have faced this: I am very near the point of
> moving my fuselage to the airport. I planned on renting a truck to
> take it there. However, I have not been able to find a rental
> truck that is wide enough for the main gear. Most rental companies
> have trucks that are around 7'-6" wide. As you know, the gear is a
> little over 8'-0" wide. I just don't think it is feasible to
> transport the fuselage without the gear in place.
>
> I have a small (Harbor Freight) trailer that is 4' x 8'. At one
> point, I designed outriggers to support the main gear wheels, using
> the 2" x 2" steel tubes bought for airplane construction. It fits,
> but I'm afraid that this trailer is too light and would bounce too
> much and damage something.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
Message 13
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Randy, if you really want to test this thing, try saying something like
"I would like to try an unimproved engine" or something like that. Then
you will know if it works, I can guarantee it. And, you would start a
very interesting dialog. Not too many of us are going to get into
"test". Do not Archive, LRM www.skyhawg.com.
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: test
Randy,
If the test is to see if your messages are going out to members
of the net, they are.
Bob Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy L. Thwing
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: test
do not archive
test
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
12/29/2007 1:27 PM
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it |
safe?
Before I got an offer I couldn't refuse on all my VW stuff, I looked real
hard at the Yamaha Genesis 150 engine. It's a 4 cyl fuel injected 150 hp
engine. Here was my thinking. I like 4 cylinders vs 3 because it would run
smoother. I've had enough recent experience with rough running engines to
last me a life time. I even got and studied the wiring diagrams and
concluded that it would be easy to convert. The only sensor I would have to
trick is the rollover one. The rest of them are O2, altitude, you need
them anyway. You really wouldn't have to trick the rollover sensor, just
don't bank or fly upside down. These little engines are designed to run at
altitude, no icing, no carbs. I really can't think of a better natural
conversion for an airplane. The 150 hp is very misleading. That's at
around 8,000+ rpm and you don't want to run that very long. Max should be
about 6 with a 2-1 or better re-drive. I'm guessing you would get around
100-110 hp. Building the PRSU shouldn't be a real challenge. Somebody
probably has already built one. The way the trans is set up it would be
lend itself to a belt drive quite well. I was going to cross that when I
got there. My plan was to buy a brand new snowmobile, they are about 10k.
Strip out the engine and wiring harness/sensors, sell the rest on E-Bay,
hopefully get a couple of grand.
Those are just my thoughts and 2 cents worth.
To me what I discussed above is what this "Experimental" is all about.
Too bad they don't have a "Fake Experimental" for some folks. Yep, I know
I'm a smart ass. LRM, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is
it safe?
>
> I don't think a degree will put you any closer to resolving the problems
> of adapting a Yamaha. Examining "the numbers" needed to sustain power,
> minimize engine rpms
> and keep the prop engaged at the correct rpm at an appropriate total
> weight would get you there if you're an "engine guy". I'd suspect this
> one would be more appropriate
> for a lighter aircraft. Super horsepower claims can be made for the
> smallest engines, but most need excessive rpms and turbos to do any good
> and they become very
> thirsty in real operating conditions. The numbers are a shortcut that
> anyone can sort thru if one takes the time well before spending precious
> nickels.
>
> I'm rather impressed with the Suzuki though. Nice application and
> conversion. Better than a 912 in simplicity and much more economical.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
>> *Does that also apply to the Wright Brothers who were bicycle
>> mechanics???????????????*
>> In a message dated 12/29/2007 1:06:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> wr.giacona@suddenlink.net writes:
>>
>> wr.giacona@suddenlink.net <mailto:wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>>
>>
>> 2."Would I be better off going with a more proven conversion like
>> the Suzuki/Geo or go with the 912?"
>>
>> Statement 1 pretty much stands on it's own. There is no mention
>> that he has ANY experience with aircraft mechanics. He's not even
>> a pilot.
>>
>> Statement 2 seems to show that he is just trying to come up with
>> an aircraft he can fly. I will be anyone here $100 that should the
>> original poster ever try to build a 701 or any plane with the
>> engine he described it will never get off the ground.
>>
>> I'm hardly against conversion engines. But those that go about
>> designing such conversions need to either have at least some
>> experience with aircraft power plants or a real strong background
>> in engineering.
>> --------
>> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>> 601XL Under Construction
>> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154875#154875
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
>
> --
> 269.17.12/1202 - Release Date: 12/29/2007 1:27 PM
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass through |
We have had considerable discussion of various ways to seal the steering
rod slots in the firewall and some elegant solutions have been posted.
One obvious solution would be to build a tail dragger. No steering wheel,
no pass through, no leak, straight forward solution. I'd like to consider
another alternative.
I'm wondering has anyone ever modified the 601 to use a castering nose
wheel. Eliminate the steerable nosewheel and you eliminate the pass
through. I believe that all the RV's except, possibly, the new 12 have
castering nose wheels. I would think that, with a castering nosewheel, the
plane might taxi better in strong cross winds, because you could use the
full rudder to counteract weathervaneing. However, that is pure speculation
on my part, since I've never flown a plane with a castering nose wheel.
So, what about it group. Has anyone out there ever put a castering nose
wheel on a 601 or given it serious consideration?
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 16
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Jay,
Depending on how far it is to the airport, you may be able to tie the
tail to your vehicle and tow the aircraft to the airport. I did this with a
KR-2 several years ago in Huntington Beach, California. The airport was
about 2 & 1/2 miles away and everything went fine. Just use back roads if
possible and go slow. Someone needs to be on the tail gate if you use a
pick up truck or sitting in an open trunk if you use a car just to watch and
make sure everything is towing OK.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:25 AM
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm sure some of you have faced this: I am very near the point of moving
> my fuselage to the airport. I planned on renting a truck to take it there.
> However, I have not been able to find a rental truck that is wide enough
> for the main gear. Most rental companies have trucks that are around
> 7'-6" wide. As you know, the gear is a little over 8'-0" wide. I just
> don't think it is feasible to transport the fuselage without the gear in
> place.
>
> I have a small (Harbor Freight) trailer that is 4' x 8'. At one point, I
> designed outriggers to support the main gear wheels, using the 2" x 2"
> steel tubes bought for airplane construction. It fits, but I'm afraid
> that this trailer is too light and would bounce too much and damage
> something.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce Streamline Tubing |
Hi Joe,
I would love to see some pictures of the "Strut Cuffs" you made. Could you please
take the time to post some pictures of your work.
Thanks
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155016#155016
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| Subject: | trailer a fuselage |
I don't know where you live...but in our area (Iowa) a snowmobile trailer
designed to carry two snowmobiles (about 8 feet wide) is the perfect size to
carry a 601 fuselage. They are plentiful....several friends offered to let me
use theirs. The fuse is not heavy. The gear fits on the trailer easily.
It DOES hang over the back of the trailer and you need to put a flag of some
kind on the tail.
Dave.
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
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My 601XL fit in a 24 foot U-Haul truck on its gear with wheels (but no
pants) . You need to visit an actual truck and measure it. The opening
(where the tracks run for the overhead door) *is* too narrow. But you pass
the gear through at an angle and then straighten out. Picture attached.
For short trips the trailer with outriggers also works. I drove mine 20
miles. See the second picture. Those are full 4*8 panels of chipboard. You
can see the ramps I used to roll the plane aboard bolted underneath the rear
of the fuselage. What you can't see are the 2*4 stiffeners underneath the
deck.
-- Craig
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is |
it safe?
LRM,
I'd recommend you purchase the engine, wiring harness and parts from the
dealer or from a damaged snowmobile and save the premium paid and lost
on excess parts.
You've got the right idea though. Set up a test stand and work up the
running power, engine mount and re-drive and establish a whole new
conversion package.
There's no reason it couldn't be done.
Best of luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
LRM wrote:
>
> Before I got an offer I couldn't refuse on all my VW stuff, I looked
> real hard at the Yamaha Genesis 150 engine. It's a 4 cyl fuel
> injected 150 hp engine. Here was my thinking. I like 4 cylinders vs
> 3 because it would run smoother. I've had enough recent experience
> with rough running engines to last me a life time. I even got and
> studied the wiring diagrams and concluded that it would be easy to
> convert. The only sensor I would have to trick is the rollover one.
> The rest of them are O2, altitude, you need them anyway. You really
> wouldn't have to trick the rollover sensor, just don't bank or fly
> upside down. These little engines are designed to run at altitude, no
> icing, no carbs. I really can't think of a better natural conversion
> for an airplane. The 150 hp is very misleading. That's at around
> 8,000+ rpm and you don't want to run that very long. Max should be
> about 6 with a 2-1 or better re-drive. I'm guessing you would get
> around 100-110 hp. Building the PRSU shouldn't be a real challenge.
> Somebody probably has already built one. The way the trans is set up
> it would be lend itself to a belt drive quite well. I was going to
> cross that when I got there. My plan was to buy a brand new
> snowmobile, they are about 10k. Strip out the engine and wiring
> harness/sensors, sell the rest on E-Bay, hopefully get a couple of grand.
>
> Those are just my thoughts and 2 cents worth.
>
> To me what I discussed above is what this "Experimental" is all
> about. Too bad they don't have a "Fake Experimental" for some folks.
> Yep, I know I'm a smart ass. LRM, www.skyhawg.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland"
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 4:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it
> feasible, is it safe?
>
>
>> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>>
>> I don't think a degree will put you any closer to resolving the
>> problems of adapting a Yamaha. Examining "the numbers" needed to
>> sustain power, minimize engine rpms
>> and keep the prop engaged at the correct rpm at an appropriate total
>> weight would get you there if you're an "engine guy". I'd suspect
>> this one would be more appropriate
>> for a lighter aircraft. Super horsepower claims can be made for the
>> smallest engines, but most need excessive rpms and turbos to do any
>> good and they become very
>> thirsty in real operating conditions. The numbers are a shortcut
>> that anyone can sort thru if one takes the time well before spending
>> precious nickels.
>>
>> I'm rather impressed with the Suzuki though. Nice application and
>> conversion. Better than a 912 in simplicity and much more economical.
>>
>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is |
it safe?
In a message dated 12/30/2007 12:45:51 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
larry@macsmachine.com writes:
There's no reason it couldn't be done.
Know any snowmobile wreckers? :)
Joe Motis
Do not Archive
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 22
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| Subject: | 701 firewall forward package |
Today I stumbled across Valley Engineering who offers a complete
firewall forward package for the 701 based on VW. I had not heard
of them previously. Bottom line of $11,000 got my attention. Hp
claim is 100 hp with included PSRU. Weighs 185 lb. It looks good and
I intend to investigate further next week. Jerry
Message 23
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| Subject: | 701 Firwall forward package |
Sorry, I accidentally sent the previous message before it was
competed. I will try again.
Today I stumbled across Valley Engineering who offers a complete
firewall forward package for the 701 based on VW. I had not heard
of them previously. Bottom line of $11,000 got my attention. Hp
claim is 100 hp with included PSRU. Weighs 185 lb. It looks good and
I intend to investigate further next week. If you want to have a
look here is the URL: http://www.culverprops.com/zenith-701.php
Jerry
Here is one pic.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it safe? |
I know of one 150FI engine for sale right now for $2500, or $3250 with all of the
EFI hardware.
I agree with your post LRM, about the smoothness of the 4 cylinder version, I've
owned this engine in a 2006 Yamaha Apex and it is definitely a smooth running
engine. I also think the case is better for adapting a redrive to than the 3
cylinder version.
Come to think of it, I know where you can get a Genesis 150FI engine for free...
on Feb. 4, 2006 I was riding my snowmobile in the mountains of British Columbia
when a cornice broke underneath me and my snowmobile and I fell 265 ft. I
broke my leg in several places and tore every ligament in my knee and laid there
overnight because my riding partners couldn't get to me. I was helicoptered
out the next day but my snowmobile was never recovered. Maybe I should auction
off the GPS coordinates to the highest bidder? This was the accident that put
my flight training on hold, haven't been flying since due to the financial effects
of the accident. Here's a media report of the incident if anyone's interested.
http://www.robsonvalleytimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=325&Itemid=67
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155042#155042
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it |
It sounds like a neat engine. I've got to say that it would be ballsy to put
a one of a kind experimental engine on a newly built CH 701. There would be
both a powerplant and an airframe to debug simultaneously in the test phase.
Like your first born turning out to be twins. This engine sure looks like it has
promise.
RTD Do not archive
**************************************
recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 26
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A Big THANKS to all you listers for your input on taking my fuselage to the airport.
This list and the listers on it are awesome!!
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass |
through
"So, what about it group. Has anyone out there ever put a castering nose >
wheel on a 601 or given it serious consideration?"
Terry--
The closest plane to a 601 with a castering nosewheet is the CZAW sportcr
uiser. As far as ease of use, the folks I've spoken to in the RV community
indicate that it's their weakest link. Must be careful on landing not to pu
t too much weight on it. In comparing with the XL for taxing, the 601XL is
much quicker and easier to turn with the direct coupling.
George May
601XL 912s
_________________________________________________________________
i=92m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a
difference.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Firwall forward package |
Looks interesting, but that air filter sticking up from the cowl is really ugly!
I didn't see a package for the 601. I wonder if it would be a good fit.
John Hines
www.johnsplane.com :?
--------
John Hines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155059#155059
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| Subject: | 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? |
Has anyone moved the Rudder Pedals or the Rear Bearing Channel (6B8-3) forward
so as to provide increased leg room on the 601XL?
Looking at the drawings, it appears there is little leeway to move the Rudder Pedals/bearings
forward, hence the idea of moving the entire Rear Bearing Channel
assembly forward.
The obvious limit on the forward side would be interference with the firewall.
Immediately aft of the firewall are the Lower Engine Mount Fittings (6B6-5).
Perhaps the rearmost bolt through the Lower Engine Mount Fittings could also
pass through the Rear Bearing Channel and still leave sufficient room for full
rudder pedal travel?
Has anyone done something similar? Any other ideas out there?
Patrick
XL/Corvair
N63PZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155063#155063
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| Subject: | 701 Firewall forward package |
Culver likes big props. I wonder how much ground clearance there is in their
701 FWF.
-- Craig
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass |
through
Terry.
Don't sell short the advantages of nose wheel steering. Much easier to
control during taxi and much better control during early part of TO and
landing especially in crosswinds.
Carl
701/912/amphibs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Phillips" <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass
through
>
> We have had considerable discussion of various ways to seal the steering
> rod slots in the firewall and some elegant solutions have been posted.
>
> One obvious solution would be to build a tail dragger. No steering wheel,
> no pass through, no leak, straight forward solution. I'd like to consider
> another alternative.
>
> I'm wondering has anyone ever modified the 601 to use a castering nose
> wheel. Eliminate the steerable nosewheel and you eliminate the pass
> through. I believe that all the RV's except, possibly, the new 12 have
> castering nose wheels. I would think that, with a castering nosewheel, the
> plane might taxi better in strong cross winds, because you could use the
> full rudder to counteract weathervaneing. However, that is pure
> speculation on my part, since I've never flown a plane with a castering
> nose wheel.
>
> So, what about it group. Has anyone out there ever put a castering nose
> wheel on a 601 or given it serious consideration?
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing the XL gascolator |
You won't have much problems with runway debris when sporting wheel pants
such as the Diamond XLS.
I love to fly the back country strips. Most of these Idaho runways are
gravel (built along side stream beds with whatever materials available)
which makes wheel pants a hindrance. Most of these back country strips are
described as turf, dirt or?
The suggested gascolator location makes it the weakest point of the 601XL --
sure would hate to have it damaged on takeoff -- loss of power will put you
into the river as there is no other place to go!
I designed and built a fairing that encloses the whole gascolator -- sharing
this info. with this thread many months ago. Recommend that you go to the
archives for pixs, etc...
Please let me reiterate -- please, please get checked out with a back
country instructor prior to trying it on your own. We loose a lot of
out-of-state people on our back country strips every year! Each one of these
airports has their own idiosyncrasies and then there is density altitude
problem!
Good rule-of-thumb: Don't fly the back country air ports after 10:00am!
Mack
601XL/3300
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? |
Hi Patrick,
I would not suggest moving the channel forward. If anything you
might get more leg room by moving the channel backward toward the
spar carry-through.
You set the rudder pedal locations by adjusting the length of the tie
rods that go to the nose wheel control column. The pedals freely
rotate in their mounts, so the location of the mounts and the channel
don't play much of a role in the final pedal positions.
I would suggest mounting the rudder pedal support channel as shown in
the drawings.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 04:50 PM 12/30/2007, you wrote:
>Has anyone moved the Rudder Pedals or the Rear Bearing Channel
>(6B8-3) forward so as to provide increased leg room on the 601XL?
>
>Looking at the drawings, it appears there is little leeway to move
>the Rudder Pedals/bearings forward, hence the idea of moving the
>entire Rear Bearing Channel assembly forward.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, |
is it
Not being a snowmobiler, I'm wondering about the cooling requirements of an engine
designed for cold weather operations in say, the Arizona dessert in July.
Anybody?
Do Not Archive
Terry Turnquist
MaxNr@aol.com wrote: It sounds like a neat engine. I've got to say that it would
be ballsy to put a one of a kind experimental engine on a newly built CH 701.
There would be both a powerplant and an airframe to debug simultaneously in
the test phase. Like your first born turning out to be twins. This engine sure
looks like it has promise.
RTD Do not archive
********************************?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it |
ter_turn(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Not being a snowmobiler, I'm wondering about the cooling requirements of an engine
designed for cold weather operations in say, the Arizona dessert in July.
Anybody?
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> Terry Turnquist
Cooling should be a non-issue, there are guys adapting these engines for use in
sand rails in the dessert with no problems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155086#155086
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? |
I'm very interested in this problems also. I'm even considering
doing away with the toe breaks to get an extra inch or so of forward
movement. Has anybody else done this? The Tecnam I'm flying now has
a single handle in the center console that seems to work Ok, it just
different.
Ron
On Dec 30, 2007, at 7:50 PM, PatrickW wrote:
>
> Has anyone moved the Rudder Pedals or the Rear Bearing Channel
> (6B8-3) forward so as to provide increased leg room on the 601XL?
>
> Looking at the drawings, it appears there is little leeway to move
> the Rudder Pedals/bearings forward, hence the idea of moving the
> entire Rear Bearing Channel assembly forward.
>
> The obvious limit on the forward side would be interference with
> the firewall. Immediately aft of the firewall are the Lower Engine
> Mount Fittings (6B6-5). Perhaps the rearmost bolt through the
> Lower Engine Mount Fittings could also pass through the Rear
> Bearing Channel and still leave sufficient room for full rudder
> pedal travel?
>
> Has anyone done something similar? Any other ideas out there?
>
> Patrick
> XL/Corvair
> N63PZ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155063#155063
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Firwall forward package |
Yep, Valley's whole package is bad ugly, but so are most 701s. It's a good
functional fit for those who just want a sky jeep. LRM www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jhines" <johnrhines@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:52 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Firwall forward package
>
> Looks interesting, but that air filter sticking up from the cowl is really
> ugly! I didn't see a package for the 601. I wonder if it would be a good
> fit.
>
> John Hines
> www.johnsplane.com :?
>
> --------
> John Hines
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155059#155059
>
>
> --
> 12/29/2007 1:27 PM
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it feasible, is it |
safe?
The main reason I would buy a new snowmobile is because I know I would
have every part I need except the PRSU. Exhaust parts, radiator and
more. When you don't know exactly what you need, those little things
will nickel and dime you to death. And I doubt I could buy too many
wrecked parts around here, in fact I've never seen a snowmobile in
Arkansas. We have a whole lot of those skidoos and alike, but I think
their cooling system is too different.
The only real down side to most conversions that no one has mentioned is
insurance. You can't get it with an unapproved engine. It's a big
risk. I found that out when I tried to insure my skyhawg.
Anybody out there think there might be a market for a airboat with a
Harley on it? LRM www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Joemotis@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Trying an unproven engine - is it
feasible, is it safe?
Here is a pic of the Yamaha in question.
<a
href="http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/jdmotis/?action=view&cur
rent=Genesis150_tcm26-67175.jpg" target="_blank"><img
src="http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/jdmotis/Genesis150_tcm26-67
175.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
12/29/2007 1:27 PM
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass |
through
yes the Brazilians did it on their airfox/ 601 and the 601 the Czecks stole
and are now building as the sport Cruiser.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
>Sent: Dec 30, 2007 1:14 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass through
>
>
>We have had considerable discussion of various ways to seal the steering
>rod slots in the firewall and some elegant solutions have been posted.
>
>One obvious solution would be to build a tail dragger. No steering wheel,
>no pass through, no leak, straight forward solution. I'd like to consider
>another alternative.
>
>I'm wondering has anyone ever modified the 601 to use a castering nose
>wheel. Eliminate the steerable nosewheel and you eliminate the pass
>through. I believe that all the RV's except, possibly, the new 12 have
>castering nose wheels. I would think that, with a castering nosewheel, the
>plane might taxi better in strong cross winds, because you could use the
>full rudder to counteract weathervaneing. However, that is pure speculation
>on my part, since I've never flown a plane with a castering nose wheel.
>
>So, what about it group. Has anyone out there ever put a castering nose
>wheel on a 601 or given it serious consideration?
>
>
>Terry Phillips
>ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
>Corvallis MT
>601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings
>http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Firwall forward package |
Larry, I was just about to post the same sentiment. The funky cowl is
uncompromised cooling. It works for me. Jerry
On Dec 30, 2007, at 9:36 PM, LRM wrote:
>
> Yep, Valley's whole package is bad ugly, but so are most 701s. It's
> a good functional fit for those who just want a sky jeep. LRM www.skyhawg.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jhines" <johnrhines@gmail.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:52 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Firwall forward package
>
>
>>
>> Looks interesting, but that air filter sticking up from the cowl is
>> really ugly! I didn't see a package for the 601. I wonder if it
>> would be a good fit.
>>
>> John Hines
>> www.johnsplane.com :?
>>
>> --------
>> John Hines
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155059#155059
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 12/29/2007 1:27 PM
>>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? |
With nosewheel steering, you can probably get by just fine with a hand
brake. The toe brakes give a bit more control on a slippery runway
though.
On Dec 30, 2007, at 9:19 PM, Ronald Steele wrote:
>
> I'm very interested in this problems also. I'm even considering
> doing away with the toe breaks to get an extra inch or so of forward
> movement. Has anybody else done this? The Tecnam I'm flying now
> has a single handle in the center console that seems to work Ok, it
> just different.
>
> Ron
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 42
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| Subject: | A *flying* electric airplane |
>From AVweb:
The first flight of the appropriately named Electra electric-powered
open-cockpit aircraft took place Sunday, Dec. 23 at 11:50 a.m. local time at
the Aspres sur Buech airfield, Hautes Alpes. The braced-shoulder-wing
taildragger flew a closed circuit for 48 minutes powered by lithium polymer
batteries, traveling the equivalent of a little more than 31 miles. (A quick
look at the aircraft suggests the airframe itself was chosen more for
expedience than for its high-performance characteristics). Piloted by test
engineer Christian Vandamme, the flight was achieved in cooperation with
APAME, the French association for the promotion of electrically motorized
aircraft that created it. According to APAME's Web site, "This flight uses
the electrical engine for light aircraft respecting the environmental
context and the control of energy costs." It also builds on the success of
the Electron Libre ultralight trike (powered hang-glider), which flew for 22
minutes in calm air on Aug. 25 from Aspres sur Buech airfield.
http://www.apame.eu/
-- Craig
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