---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/03/08: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:04 AM - Re: Developed length "dl" (ashontz) 2. 04:11 AM - Re: Recovery from flutter (ashontz) 3. 04:16 AM - Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) (ashontz) 4. 04:32 AM - Re: 601XL Wings (ashontz) 5. 04:45 AM - Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? (PatrickW) 6. 05:09 AM - Re: 601 xl flying in general (4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons)) 7. 05:42 AM - Prop Pitch; 701 with 912ULS (Joe Spencer) 8. 06:12 AM - Re: Recovery from flutter (steveadams) 9. 06:25 AM - Re: Engine performance for homebuilts (special4) 10. 06:29 AM - Re: Recovery from flutter (ashontz) 11. 06:52 AM - Re: Prop-pitch; 701 w/Rotax 912ULS (billmileski) 12. 07:45 AM - Re: Engine performance for homebuilts (kmccune) 13. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: Developed length "dl" (David Downey) 14. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) (David Downey) 15. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? (David Downey) 16. 10:06 AM - Specs on close tolerance bolts? (Craig Payne) 17. 11:13 AM - Re: Specs on close tolerance bolts? (George Swinford) 18. 12:40 PM - Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? (Joshua) 19. 12:49 PM - Re: Specs on close tolerance bolts? (Craig Payne) 20. 01:08 PM - WW engine mount bolts (Aerolitellc@aol.com) 21. 01:09 PM - Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? (Gig Giacona) 22. 01:14 PM - Re: WW engine mount bolts (Gig Giacona) 23. 01:34 PM - Re: WW engine mount bolts (Craig Payne) 24. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? (John Marzulli) 25. 01:41 PM - Re: Trailering (ashontz) 26. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Trailering (Juan Vega) 27. 03:56 PM - Fuel Filler Frustration (dgardea(at)gmail.com) 28. 04:14 PM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (Larry Winger) 29. 05:05 PM - Re: Trailering (ashontz) 30. 05:53 PM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (Michael Valentine) 31. 06:02 PM - Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? (RURUNY@aol.com) 32. 06:07 PM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (macleod@eagle.ca) 33. 06:17 PM - Nose Gear Bearing Material (WAYNE BEATTIE) 34. 06:35 PM - Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? (Mark Colbeck) 35. 06:51 PM - Re: Nose Gear Bearing Material (Craig Payne) 36. 06:52 PM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 37. 07:14 PM - Re: Nose Gear Bearing Material (Craig Payne) 38. 07:22 PM - Re: Nose Gear Bearing Material (steve) 39. 07:35 PM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (dingfelder) 40. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? (ZodieRocket) 41. 08:42 PM - Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? (hansriet) 42. 08:48 PM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (Ron Lendon) 43. 09:28 PM - Re: Nose Gear Bearing Material (Randy L. Thwing) 44. 10:14 PM - Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Developed length "dl" From: "ashontz" Developed length to me means, length plus 10 mm, then make part then trim back unused length. LOL -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155695#155695 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Recovery from flutter From: "ashontz" If going to the next gauge up in sheet thickness helps then an extra rib between each rib oughta help too. The idea behind the next gauge up is just increasing the bending resistance of the sheet between each rib station, decreasing the distance between each rib station by decreasing the bending/twisting moment between rib stations by shortening the distance between ribs would also achieve the same end. [quote="MaxNr(at)aol.com"]This discussion about the safety of the 601 series wings may or may should be a matter of concern. Not to me. I have confidence in the design and the designer. If there are some that would like another layer of security, this country boy -- clodhopper humbly offers the suggestion that one could construct their top and bottom wing skins with the next heavier sheet size. It would add a small increase in weight but would stiffen up the structure somewhat. Many builders are now doing this in the fuselage without a second thought. Another way to stiffen the wing would be to add drag braces internally like a rag-wing. Even I don't think much of that idea. Bob 601XL Do not archive ************************************** > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155696#155696 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) From: "ashontz" Here's an interesting idea, how about mounting a laser light inside the wing that shoots from the wing root near the front on the wing down to the front outboard tip of the wing thought the lightening holes to a 45 degree mirror which then points to some sort of sensor at the back of the outboard tip of the wing. I;m sure someone here is smart enough to figure out how to do this and knows what I'm getting at enough to make some sense out of the data in flight. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155697#155697 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wings From: "ashontz" This more than anything makes me feel better about it all; having multiple sets of qualified eyes looking at the plans. The silence was deafening. zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > > If the wings were in any type of danger then the FAA would have put a > halt on the AMD Certified version of the LSA 601XL. They have not and > have not even made suggestions to the manufacturing. Your 601XL kit is > built from the same jigs as the SLSA certified version. > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155700#155700 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? From: "PatrickW" Thanks Lynn. I'm thinking along the same lines as you. I spoke with Zenith too. They mentioned that I'd have to fill in some pre-drilled rivet holes, but they didn't have a problem with it. I'll do some measuring & positioning and see how things look as far as exactly how much forward to go on mine. Pat XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155704#155704 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:21 AM PST US From: 4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons) Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 xl flying in general Juan, I appreciate your words. I am a newbie and a low time flyer. Some of the thoughts I hear on this list makes me wonder why folks bought a kit rather than designing their own. Myself, I am a fairly handy man but don't know a lot about very much with out asking others. I do understand that a designer had an intent in mind when he puts his thoughts on paper. Any deviation from that changes the unknown and that is where the danger lies. If not ran through the designers thought process, the unknown can be detrimental. That is not to say change can not be a good thing but it must be done in a manner that takes design intent strictly in the equation. I hope that with in the nest 2 years I too can join the flying ranks of the Zeniith family Do not archive -- Thanks, Rich Simmons 601XL Rear Fuselage upper Front ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:44 AM PST US From: "Joe Spencer" Subject: Zenith-List: Prop Pitch; 701 with 912ULS You didn't mention how far you have taken your airframe drag reduction. If you don't already have streamlined struts you can increase your max rpm at the current pitch setting by adding them. The difference is amazing. There are many more less dramatic cleanup opportunities on the 701 all of which will increase the rpm, not to mention speed/gas mileage. Joe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Recovery from flutter From: "steveadams" Keep in mind that a stiffer wing does not equal a stronger wing, and may in fact may be more prone to failure. The flexing and twisting going on in the wing as you fly through turbulent air is spreading the load through the entire span. Stiffening the wing concentrates more of that load directly on the wing attach points, which doesn't seem like a good idea unless you really know what you are doing. Does anyone know where the XL wing fails? Every chain has a weakest link, and Zenith should know where the "weakest link" in the Zodiac wing is. For increasing overall strength of the wing, that would be the place to start if you really want a stronger wing, not a bandaid. Steve Zodiac CH640 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155720#155720 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:13 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine performance for homebuilts From: "special4" Kevin, I don't know why the link doesn't work... if you write it manually it works... Peter -------- Sportsflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155721#155721 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Recovery from flutter From: "ashontz" I've thought of this. At the same time, this is not a 100 foot 747 wing that REALLY needs to flex. None of the NTSB reports indicated a failure at the root. Even so, you could easily beef the root as well. steveadams wrote: > Keep in mind that a stiffer wing does not equal a stronger wing, and may in fact may be more prone to failure. The flexing and twisting going on in the wing as you fly through turbulent air is spreading the load through the entire span. Stiffening the wing concentrates more of that load directly on the wing attach points, which doesn't seem like a good idea unless you really know what you are doing. Does anyone know where the XL wing fails? Every chain has a weakest link, and Zenith should know where the "weakest link" in the Zodiac wing is. For increasing overall strength of the wing, that would be the place to start if you really want a stronger wing, not a bandaid. > > Steve > Zodiac CH640 -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155724#155724 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop-pitch; 701 w/Rotax 912ULS From: "billmileski" Les, Congrats on the new arrival to the 701 fleet. My 701 with 912S and 3-blade fixed 68" Woodcomp performs similarly: Full throttle static rpm: 5250 Climb: solo at sea level on standard day, ~1500fpm Full throttle in level flight: 110mph (redline) and not sure but I think less than 5500rpm. Cruise at 4800rpm is around 85mph and 3.4gph (solo). Cruising at 75-80 seems very light load on everything, with even better economy. That said, I have often wondered about setting static as high as 5400-5500 and see what the short takeoff performance would be, but would expect that cruise rpm would be higher, as well as fuel consumption. Maybe for the next STOL contest. If you are getting 5375rpm static (or was that your in-flight max?), that sounds appropriate, for more opinion do an archive search, this topic has been discussed. Cruise at 5000 seems appropriate, personally wouldn't want to spin faster at 85-90. As you fly off the 40hrs (if you have to do a Phase I) you'll find out whether you prefer jump-takeoffs or mellow cruise rpm and increased fuel economy. Lastly, I think lower pitch (higher rpm) might help reduce glide distance at idle if you desire a short approach as well. Congrats again, Bill Mileski Ledyard, CT 701 912S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155728#155728 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine performance for homebuilts From: "kmccune" Try this one, same just that the period is left off the end www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/weights.htm Do not archive -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155737#155737 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:18 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Developed length "dl" but since the sight line for brake placement depends on DL in a channel, how do you manage that? Developed length to me means, length plus 10 mm, then make part then trim back unused length. LOL -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155695#155695 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:15 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) I beleive that I am one of the original "doubters" on the XL wing but even I agree with what has been stated multiple times very succinctly by various posters: the design is good; just build it to print using best aerospace industry practices, don't cut any corners, don't take any shortcuts, and fly it by the numbers. Any certified, production aircraft has questions when any of those areas are compromised as well. Chris Heintz is no dummy and he has great integrity. ashontz wrote: Here's an interesting idea, how about mounting a laser light inside the wing that shoots from the wing root near the front on the wing down to the front outboard tip of the wing thought the lightening holes to a 45 degree mirror which then points to some sort of sensor at the back of the outboard tip of the wing. I;m sure someone here is smart enough to figure out how to do this and knows what I'm getting at enough to make some sense out of the data in flight. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155697#155697 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:55 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL - Making More Leg Room...? ...just don't use Bondo to fill the holes! Thanks Lynn. I'm thinking along the same lines as you. I spoke with Zenith too. They mentioned that I'd have to fill in some pre-drilled rivet holes, but they didn't have a problem with it. I'll do some measuring & positioning and see how things look as far as exactly how much forward to go on mine. Pat XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155704#155704 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:29 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Specs on close tolerance bolts? I've poked around and can't find this anywhere. What would be the diameter and tolerance on the shaft of a "close tolerance" equivalent of an AN5 bolt? I guess this would be an AN175. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:24 AM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Specs on close tolerance bolts? According to my catalog from Spencer Aircraft, AN175 has max dia. .3117 in, min dia. .3112 in. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Specs on close tolerance bolts? > > I've poked around and can't find this anywhere. What would be the diameter > and tolerance on the shaft of a "close tolerance" equivalent of an AN5 bolt? > I guess this would be an AN175. > > -- Craig > > > -- 3:52 PM > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? From: "Joshua" I cant believe I'm second guessing myself because I was all ready to order plans for a 701. I live in Maine and I seem to have been stricken with the fantasy that I could be hopping around in the "bush" hunting and fishing in my 701. Not too much to ask, huh? Well then I got thinking about the 601's and the increased cruise speed and better cross country abilities and I suddenly realized that you can probably fish much easier from the low wing design! I know this probably sounds like a ridiculous thing to base my choice of aircraft on but it is a contributing factor. There is a LOT of water in Maine and Ive been thinking that it might be just as practical for me to fly from amphibious floats and enjoy the better cruise speed of the 601 as well as a higher useful load. I just love the 701 but does Its short field capabilities really open up more options to land and take off in the real world? Is there anyone out there hunting or fishing or flying around in remote places with or without floats that can comment on how practical the find their 601 or 701 really is? I just want to make sure I'm building the right airplane and with my limited experience its very difficult to know what would suit me best. I know that this is too many questions to have an answer for but any comments at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Joshua Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155783#155783 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:21 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Specs on close tolerance bolts? Thanks, that's just what I needed. -- Craig Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Swinford Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Specs on close tolerance bolts? According to my catalog from Spencer Aircraft, AN175 has max dia. .3117 in, min dia. .3112 in. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Specs on close tolerance bolts? > > I've poked around and can't find this anywhere. What would be the diameter > and tolerance on the shaft of a "close tolerance" equivalent of an AN5 bolt? > I guess this would be an AN175. > > -- Craig > > > -- 3:52 PM > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:06 PM PST US From: Aerolitellc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: WW engine mount bolts Can anyone tell me what bolt to use for the 601xl to use for WW's engine mount? I know the engine mount bolts are AN6-35 but for the life of me I can't find the length of the firewall bolts. Thanks And Do Archive **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? From: "Gig Giacona" The following from the Maine DOT site might be of interest to you. Q: May I land a seaplane on any lake? A: If there are no local zoning laws prohibiting motorized aircraft operations on the PUBLIC lake, you can land on it. Private lakes are considered private property and you will require prior permission from the owner. However, Baxter State Park is closed, and the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, which is restricted. Restrictions do not apply to aircraft on state business or in emergency. No exceptions in the Baxter State Park area. Seaplane landings in the Allagash are allowed at the following locations: Chamberlain Lake Churchill Lake Round Pond Telos Lake Umsaskis Lake Nugent's Camps, Chamberlain Throroughfare Bridge, Lock Dam Northern end near Heron Lake, The Jaws Jalbert's Allagash Camps Telos Landing Forestry Camp During winter, aircraft are permitted to land on frozen bodies of water within the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, except Allagash Lake. Current overnight fees in Allagash wilderness: $2/person/night, Maine residents; $3/person night, non-residents. No charge for under 10 years of age. Lake Auburn - Off limits to seaplanes pending further investigation Knox County Water Authority Mirror Lake - Closed York Water District Chase's Pond - Closed to all motorized aircraft Joshua wrote: > I cant believe I'm second guessing myself because I was all ready to order plans for a 701. I live in Maine and I seem to have been stricken with the fantasy that I could be hopping around in the "bush" hunting and fishing in my 701. Not too much to ask, huh? Well then I got thinking about the 601's and the increased cruise speed and better cross country abilities and I suddenly realized that you can probably fish much easier from the low wing design! I know this probably sounds like a ridiculous thing to base my choice of aircraft on but it is a contributing factor. > There is a LOT of water in Maine and Ive been thinking that it might be just as practical for me to fly from amphibious floats and enjoy the better cruise speed of the 601 as well as a higher useful load. I just love the 701 but does Its short field capabilities really open up more options to land and take off in the real world? Is there anyone out there hunting or fishing or flying around in remote places with or without floats that can comment on how practical the find their 601 or 701 really is? > I just want to make sure I'm building the right airplane and with my limited experience its very difficult to know what would suit me best. > I know that this is too many questions to have an answer for but any comments at all would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Joshua -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155789#155789 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: WW engine mount bolts From: "Gig Giacona" I don't have access to that right this second but it is the same as the ones for the Lyc O-200. In other words, the longer ones that Zenith will provide. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155792#155792 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:57 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: WW engine mount bolts Nick at ZAC sent me this back in Feb '06: "For a 38mm long bushing, allow approximately 3mm to go through the fitting, the doubler and firewall = 41mm A better bolt to use is an AN6-22A (grip length = 1-11/16")" -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aerolitellc@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:06 PM Subject: Zenith-List: WW engine mount bolts Can anyone tell me what bolt to use for the 601xl to use for WW's engine mount? I know the engine mount bolts are AN6-35 but for the life of me I can't find the length of the firewall bolts. Thanks And Do Archive _____ Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:28 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? There are several things you may want to consider. If you do not already have a Aircraft Single Engine Sea rating, you may want to consider the training before starting to build. This way you can build time and make the insurance rates easier on your wallet. You may also want to join the Seaplane Pilot's Association ( SPA ). They produce a fantastic water landing directory and a magazine filled with safety tips and experience. As for fishing from a 701 vs a 60, maybe ZodieRocket can add some perspective. He is one of the probably few people who have flown both on floats. Happy flying! -John On Jan 3, 2008 1:08 PM, Gig Giacona wrote: > wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> > > The following from the Maine DOT site might be of interest to you. > > Q: May I land a seaplane on any lake? > > A: If there are no local zoning laws prohibiting motorized aircraft > operations on the PUBLIC lake, you can land on it. Private lakes are > considered private property and you will require prior permission from the > owner. However, Baxter State Park is closed, and the Allagash Wilderness > Waterway, which is restricted. Restrictions do not apply to aircraft on > state business or in emergency. No exceptions in the Baxter State Park area. > Seaplane landings in the Allagash are allowed at the following locations: > > Chamberlain Lake > Churchill Lake > Round Pond > Telos Lake > Umsaskis Lake > Nugent's Camps, Chamberlain Throroughfare Bridge, Lock Dam > Northern end near Heron Lake, The Jaws > Jalbert's Allagash Camps > Telos Landing > Forestry Camp > During winter, aircraft are permitted to land on frozen bodies of water > within the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, except Allagash Lake. Current > overnight fees in Allagash wilderness: $2/person/night, Maine residents; > $3/person night, non-residents. No charge for under 10 years of age. > > Lake Auburn - Off limits to seaplanes pending further investigation > > Knox County Water Authority Mirror Lake - Closed > > York Water District > > Chase's Pond - Closed to all motorized aircraft > > > Joshua wrote: > > I cant believe I'm second guessing myself because I was all ready to > order plans for a 701. I live in Maine and I seem to have been stricken with > the fantasy that I could be hopping around in the "bush" hunting and > fishing in my 701. Not too much to ask, huh? Well then I got thinking about > the 601's and the increased cruise speed and better cross country abilities > and I suddenly realized that you can probably fish much easier from the low > wing design! I know this probably sounds like a ridiculous thing to base my > choice of aircraft on but it is a contributing factor. > > There is a LOT of water in Maine and Ive been thinking that it might be > just as practical for me to fly from amphibious floats and enjoy the better > cruise speed of the 601 as well as a higher useful load. I just love the 701 > but does Its short field capabilities really open up more options to land > and take off in the real world? Is there anyone out there hunting or fishing > or flying around in remote places with or without floats that can comment on > how practical the find their 601 or 701 really is? > > I just want to make sure I'm building the right airplane and with my > limited experience its very difficult to know what would suit me best. > > I know that this is too many questions to have an answer for but any > comments at all would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Joshua > > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155789#155789 > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Trailering From: "ashontz" For the youngsters here, condoms are not a guarantee against sexually transmitted diseases. Abstinance is the only truly safe option. LOL Gig Giacona wrote: > Well, if nothing else your plane doesn't have to worry about an STD during transport. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155802#155802 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:33 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Trailering ashontz, jerking off has been found not to be a guarantee from STDs -----Original Message----- >From: ashontz >Sent: Jan 3, 2008 4:40 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Trailering > > >For the youngsters here, condoms are not a guarantee against sexually transmitted diseases. Abstinance is the only truly safe option. > >LOL > > >Gig Giacona wrote: >> Well, if nothing else your plane doesn't have to worry about an STD during transport. >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >-------- >Andy Shontz >CH601XL - Corvair >www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155802#155802 > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Filler Frustration From: "dgardea(at)gmail.com" Hello all, I have seen some posts on this topic a while back and hesitate to start a new thread, but wanted to see if anyone has developed any new techniques for leveling out their fuel filler neck on the tank. See the attached picture .. one side is about 3mm higher than the other. I know one lister was able to correct this by hammering down one side with a solid piece of maple. I tried this carefully, but the threaded neck just seems to rebound to it's original out of level position. Any experience in solving this is appreciated before I give Zenith a call tomorrow. Thanks, Dave Gardea Just ordered fuselage kit and related components today.. -------- Dave Gardea 601XL - Corvair working on wings http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155818#155818 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0066_136.jpg ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:51 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Filler Frustration Dave, I just finished dealing with the same problem, and also tried to tweak the neck. Not much luck for me either! My fix was to use small pieces of cork strip to build up the area between the tank and the skin on the side of the gap (right side on your photo). When I tightened the filler neck, that side was held higher while the remaining area was compressing normally. The gap disappeared, for all practical purposes. Good luck! Larry Winger Tustin, CA Scratchbuilding 601XL/Corvair Wings done! Starting the fuselage. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Trailering From: "ashontz" Ah hahahaha, wow you're a funny guy. You probably say the poopy word that starts with S a lot too. You be cool. amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > ashontz, > jerking off has been found not to be a guarantee from STDs > > -- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155828#155828 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:23 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Filler Frustration Hammer harder! (Not that I really liked that method.) I used the hammer technique and then added quite a bit of cork to try to make my filler flush. Michael in NH On Jan 3, 2008 6:53 PM, dgardea(at)gmail.com wrote: > dgardea@gmail.com> > > Hello all, > > I have seen some posts on this topic a while back and hesitate to start a > new thread, but wanted to see if anyone has developed any new techniques for > leveling out their fuel filler neck on the tank. See the attached picture .. > one side is about 3mm higher than the other. I know one lister was able to > correct this by hammering down one side with a solid piece of maple. I tried > this carefully, but the threaded neck just seems to rebound to it's original > out of level position. Any experience in solving this is appreciated before > I give Zenith a call tomorrow. > > Thanks, > > Dave Gardea > Just ordered fuselage kit and related components today.. > > -------- > Dave Gardea > 601XL - Corvair > working on wings > http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155818#155818 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0066_136.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:37 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? I seem to have been stricken with the fantasy that I could be hopping around in the "bush" hunting and fishing in my 701... Me too...I'm planning on using this one day from my 701: _http://www.popeilfamilystore.com/ppf.html_ (http://www.popeilfamilystore.com/ppf.html) Will fit nicely in the baggage compartment. Also recently I got the new STOL-Adventures Canyon Surfing video. Wow! I highly recommend this for any 701builder, some great flying here. This should remove any doubt that this plane is capable in remote, places. It is a very well done production. Will get you motivated. No float operations in the video but I'm sure there are plans in a later sequal. _http://www.stol-adventures.com/_ (http://www.stol-adventures.com/) Brian Unruh Long Island, NY _http://www.701builder.com_ (http://www.701builder.com) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Filler Frustration From: macleod@eagle.ca >.. one side is about 3mm higher than the other. Dave: I had the same problem, only mine was much worse on one side. After careful consideration I ignored all advice and filed the threads off the filler necks until they slipped easily into the tank in a perfectly level position (they had a beautiful machined thread), bought some goop guaranteeed to seal gasoline systems and gooped them on. They now look perfect. My solution may not be for all but it worked. Mike 601XL waiting patiently for Rotax FWFwd ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:03 PM PST US From: WAYNE BEATTIE Subject: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material After 300+ hours I am seeing a little play in the nose gear bearing and would like to install the "plastic" bearing material this winter. This is for a 601 HDS. Do there bearing pieces come already formed from Zenith or do you have to but the material blank and do the forming yourself? I have looked at the parts list and can't seem to find a part number. Wayne N601WB ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:45 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? From: "Mark Colbeck" I too purchased the Canyon Surfing DVD. Wow! It was extremely well done and may be a huge help in making your decision to get a plane that can get you in and out of the back country. Amphibious? Tundra tires? I am currently with the stock 701 tire setup but am seriously considering purchasing the Tundra tire kit from Grove or an amphibious set up from Can-Zac Good Luck -------- CH701 60% Complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155849#155849 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:30 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material I don't know about the HDS or if the XL parts will fit. But the XL part number is 6G2-1. For the XL they come completely formed except for the holes that bolt the two V-blocks together and the four tapped holes that hold it to the forked plate that goes around the nose gear tube. The XL plans list the material as "Nyoil". You can see the part here (center left): http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/parts6xg23.pdf Larry McFarland fabricated his own nose gear bearing out of raw stock for his HDS. Go to www.macsmachine.com, click on "Gear" in the left column and look at the 6th row of pictures. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WAYNE BEATTIE Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material After 300+ hours I am seeing a little play in the nose gear bearing and would like to install the "plastic" bearing material this winter. This is for a 601 HDS. Do there bearing pieces come already formed from Zenith or do you have to but the material blank and do the forming yourself? I have looked at the parts list and can't seem to find a part number. Wayne N601WB ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:08 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Filler Frustration That is exactly what you have to do... When you build up the cork it forces the tank metal to conform and it lay flat as a pancake just be careful because the more you put the filler cap in and out it seems to get harder and harder to take out. The point is you will have to play with it to get it just right. Dave, I just finished dealing with the same problem, and also tried to tweak the neck. Not much luck for me either! My fix was to use small pieces of cork strip to build up the area between the tank and the skin on the side of the gap (right side on your photo). When I tightened the filler neck, that side was held higher while the remaining area was compressing normally. The gap disappeared, for all practical purposes. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:00 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material Make that "center right" Have you heard of DAM? Mothers Against Dyslexia. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:51 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material I don't know about the HDS or if the XL parts will fit. But the XL part number is 6G2-1. For the XL they come completely formed except for the holes that bolt the two V-blocks together and the four tapped holes that hold it to the forked plate that goes around the nose gear tube. The XL plans list the material as "Nyoil". You can see the part here (center left): http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/parts6xg23.pdf Larry McFarland fabricated his own nose gear bearing out of raw stock for his HDS. Go to www.macsmachine.com, click on "Gear" in the left column and look at the 6th row of pictures. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WAYNE BEATTIE Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material After 300+ hours I am seeing a little play in the nose gear bearing and would like to install the "plastic" bearing material this winter. This is for a 601 HDS. Do there bearing pieces come already formed from Zenith or do you have to but the material blank and do the forming yourself? I have looked at the parts list and can't seem to find a part number. Wayne N601WB ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:00 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material No but I do have Lesdexia. Figure Go. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material Make that "center right" Have you heard of DAM? Mothers Against Dyslexia. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:51 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material I don't know about the HDS or if the XL parts will fit. But the XL part number is 6G2-1. For the XL they come completely formed except for the holes that bolt the two V-blocks together and the four tapped holes that hold it to the forked plate that goes around the nose gear tube. The XL plans list the material as "Nyoil". You can see the part here (center left): http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/parts6xg23.pdf Larry McFarland fabricated his own nose gear bearing out of raw stock for his HDS. Go to www.macsmachine.com, click on "Gear" in the left column and look at the 6th row of pictures. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WAYNE BEATTIE Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:16 PM To: Zenithlist Subject: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material After 300+ hours I am seeing a little play in the nose gear bearing and would like to install the "plastic" bearing material this winter. This is for a 601 HDS. Do there bearing pieces come already formed from Zenith or do you have to but the material blank and do the forming yourself? I have looked at the parts list and can't seem to find a part number. Wayne N601WB http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:15 PM PST US From: "dingfelder" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Filler Frustration Dave, I used a hardwood block set flat on the filler neck top, and whacked it as needed with a heavy mallet. I had to hit it hard on the high side, but in a few minutes, checking progress with a straightedge, problem gone. I had th tank supported on carpet and foam. The other issue with the earlier tanks that have filler neck welded on top of the tank, is getting the filler to sit low enough that the lid will screw in far enough to meet the skin. The crude hammer method helps that as well. Just don't "test fit" the threaded section without applying anti sieze to the threads first, they will lock up if you aren't lucky. Lynn Corry, PA > I have seen some posts on this topic a while back and hesitate to start a > new thread, but wanted to see if anyone has developed any new techniques > for leveling out their fuel filler neck on the tank. See the attached > picture .. one side is about 3mm higher than the other. I know one lister > was able to correct this by hammering down one side with a solid piece of > maple. I tried this carefully, but the threaded neck just seems to rebound > to it's original out of level position. Any experience in solving this is > appreciated before I give Zenith a call tomorrow. > > Thanks, > > Dave Gardea > Just ordered fuselage kit and related components today.. > > -------- > Dave Gardea > 601XL - Corvair > working on wings > http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155818#155818 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0066_136.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:21 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? I agree that if you are planning on splashing then get training and join the SPA. Now for the plane, both the 601 and 701 are a blast on the water, but as in the land use both have different missions. The 601 being a low wing carries itself in ground effect a lot longer and is more stable in most water situations, but it does take longer to get it=92s floats up, it is a heavier plane and uses the 1350 lb floats which create more drag and cost about $2,000 more then the floats for the 701. As for it=92s use the 601 on floats is an ideal plane for the cottage owner, it will get you out of the city and to the beach of the cottage in a good clip with a cruise of about 120mph using a Jabiru 3300 as opposed to 135 on wheels. Fishing is not allowed from the plane in Canada, having said that, the seats in the low wing do not allow for a good cast and typically you stand on the float and lean into the wing root and fuselage beside the firewall. The 601 is also a poor plane for docking, you have to aim the nose at the dock and run lake hell to not crush your fiberglass nose caps. Trying to side into a dock will result in maiming any leg in the vicinity or having dock rats damage your wings. The 701 is also a great float plane, In no way a speed demon with a cruise of 80 mph on floats as opposed to 90 on wheels. However, the mission is different. As on land the 701 is quick into the air, with an average of 4-6 seconds off the water roughly 180-250 ft. The 701 is the amphibian for the sportsman, with the bubble doors on, you can see the floats touching the water also checking for wheels down or up is done with just mirrors and not electronics. The 701 has been used many times to see where other moose camps are setup and to often view the rustling trees during a no breeze day. ( you are not allowed to hunt animals from a plane and spotting is the act of hunting) But you are allowed to look for rustling trees ;-)~ Fishing from the 701 is also not allowed in Canada, nevertheless you stand on the float and lean against the cowling. Best of all is if you have a 1970=92s pocket fisherman you can remain in the seat and side cast with the door open ( yes I still have one), no fly poles, it just makes a mess. The 701 is lighter and easier to beach and when you kick out the passenger you can actually belt in a bear. ( preferably dead first, remove the seating if the bear has been cleaned out, blood wipes right off) ( I also have a story about a Bear on the back of my Goldwing after an archery trip, but that is not for this list). The 701 is ready to go, just add floats and have fun, the 601 requires a few small modifications. Both have great handling characteristics with the all flying rudder and both can be a true joy to the sport of flying. Adding floats just opens a whole new world of adventures. But as stated before, you need to examine your mission and type of flying when choosing either the 601 or the 701. Floats are no different then wheels when making your decision, both planes are used differently. Decide which is more suited to your needs. Oh and use Zenair Floats manufactured by Can-Zac Aviation, sorry for the shameless plug! Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Marzulli Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? There are several things you may want to consider. If you do not already have a Aircraft Single Engine Sea rating, you may want to consider the training before starting to build. This way you can build time and make the insurance rates easier on your wallet. You may also want to join the Seaplane Pilot's Association ( SPA ). They produce a fantastic water landing directory and a magazine filled with safety tips and experience. As for fishing from a 701 vs a 60, maybe ZodieRocket can add some perspective. He is one of the probably few people who have flown both on floats. Happy flying! -John On Jan 3, 2008 1:08 PM, Gig Giacona wrote: "mailto:wr.giacona@suddenlink.net"wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> The following from the Maine DOT site might be of interest to you. Q: May I land a seaplane on any lake? A: If there are no local zoning laws prohibiting motorized aircraft operations on the PUBLIC lake, you can land on it. Private lakes are considered private property and you will require prior permission from the owner. However, Baxter State Park is closed, and the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, which is restricted. Restrictions do not apply to aircraft on state business or in emergency. No exceptions in the Baxter State Park area. Seaplane landings in the Allagash are allowed at the following locations: Chamberlain Lake Churchill Lake Round Pond Telos Lake Umsaskis Lake Nugent's Camps, Chamberlain Throroughfare Bridge, Lock Dam Northern end near Heron Lake, The Jaws Jalbert's Allagash Camps Telos Landing Forestry Camp During winter, aircraft are permitted to land on frozen bodies of water within the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, except Allagash Lake. Current overnight fees in Allagash wilderness: $2/person/night, Maine residents; $3/person night, non-residents. No charge for under 10 years of age. Lake Auburn - Off limits to seaplanes pending further investigation Knox County Water Authority Mirror Lake - Closed York Water District Chase's Pond - Closed to all motorized aircraft Joshua wrote: > I cant believe I'm second guessing myself because I was all ready to order plans for a 701. I live in Maine and I seem to have been stricken with the fantasy that I could be hopping around in the "bush" hunting and fishing in my 701. Not too much to ask, huh? Well then I got thinking about the 601's and the increased cruise speed and better cross country abilities and I suddenly realized that you can probably fish much easier from the low wing design! I know this probably sounds like a ridiculous thing to base my choice of aircraft on but it is a contributing factor. > There is a LOT of water in Maine and Ive been thinking that it might be just as practical for me to fly from amphibious floats and enjoy the better cruise speed of the 601 as well as a higher useful load. I just love the 701 but does Its short field capabilities really open up more options to land and take off in the real world? Is there anyone out there hunting or fishing or flying around in remote places with or without floats that can comment on how practical the find their 601 or 701 really is? > I just want to make sure I'm building the right airplane and with my limited experience its very difficult to know what would suit me best. > I know that this is too many questions to have an answer for but any comments at all would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Joshua -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at HYPERLINK "http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR" \nwww.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155789#155789" \nhttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155789#155789 -- John Marzulli HYPERLINK "http://701Builder.blogspot.com/"http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion 1/3/2008 3:52 PM 1/3/2008 3:52 PM ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? From: "hansriet" The seaplane rating is by far the most fun rating to get. I got my training from Norcal aviation and the subsequent mountain flying add on was a treat that no pilot should be without. Low and slow is the way to go. I'm building my XL on wheels now but will definitely look into Mark's floats when the time is right and the floats are available. Hans van Riet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155873#155873 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Filler Frustration From: "Ron Lendon" I'm the guy who hit it with the maple block. I placed more pictures on picasaweb to show how I did it. http://picasaweb.google.com/ron.lendon/FuelFiller Aluminum has a lot of springback, it takes quite a lot of movement to get it to take a set. I whacked it a few times before it was where it needed to be and it didn't deform the bottom of the skin. The entire wing is supported on 6" Styrofoam blocks when this operation was performed. I just Clecoed everything in place and just hit it where the high spot was. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155874#155874 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:14 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material do not archive Are you Dyslexic? You know, five out of three people are! Randy, Las Vegas Have you heard of DAM? Mothers Against Dyslexia. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:17 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit After reading what Steve Weston found on the bolt holes in the spar of his quick-built kit I decided to check mine. I face a different problem but it is just as frustrating. I have oversized holes in the center spar. The worst are the outer four (two per side) that pass through the vertical angles which tie the spar to the fuselage sides (6B13-1). Mine vary between 0.3205 and 0.3245. My guess is that they were enlarged when they were drilling the matching holes through the upright angles. The inner eight range between 0.3140 and 0.3175. I'm still trying to decide if these are too far out. The twelve holes in the wing spars appear to be within spec. Accurately measuring these holes is difficult. After using the same tools to measure a regular AN5 bolt and a home-made taper gauge I am confident in the *relative* readings. And an AN5 bolts is very loose in the worst holes. I cross-checked my readings with the shank of a letter "O" ("oh") drill (0.3145 on my micrometer). During the holidays I sent an e-mail to ZAC describing the situation and Rodger called me the morning after the holidays ended. We both agree that the four worst holes have to be fixed. He is working to come up with what gap is acceptable so we can decide if the remaining 8 holes are usable. ZAC is also getting a set of size gauges so we can accurately measure holes on a sampling of planes. I've ordered a few close-tolerance AN175 bolts to see how they fit. For me I think the best way to work on the problem holes is to remove the center spar from the fuselage, bolt it to each wing in turn and use a portable drill press or guide to drill and ream. One trick will be maintaining the position of the vertical angles on the spar. In the QBK each is held to the center spar with a pair of blind rivets. So I'll probably take the whole assembly out as a piece. This will allow me to ream the outermost four holes as a piece. I would urge anyone with a factory-built spar or QBK to check these holes - both size and alignment. -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.