Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:17 AM - Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (David Downey)
2. 03:18 AM - Re: Rotax 10k hours (Brandon Tucker)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (dgardea(at)gmail.com)
4. 04:57 AM - Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (steve)
5. 06:05 AM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net (Rich Simmons))
6. 06:05 AM - Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 06:39 AM - Re: Fuel Filler Frustration (PatrickW)
8. 06:51 AM - Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (John Bolding)
9. 07:28 AM - Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? (Avidmagnum)
10. 07:35 AM - Re: Nose Gear Bearing Material (Bill Naumuk)
11. 08:43 AM - Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (Gig Giacona)
12. 09:07 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Trailering (John M. Goodings)
13. 09:36 AM - Off-topic, non-aviation, non-serious - DO NOT READ! (Craig Payne)
14. 09:40 AM - Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (Craig Payne)
15. 09:55 AM - Re: Trailering (aprazer)
16. 09:57 AM - Re: Trailering (ashontz)
17. 10:02 AM - Fuel System Tank Sump Drain (robert stone)
18. 10:20 AM - Classic Zenair on Ebay (PatrickW)
19. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (Craig Payne)
20. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Trailering (Larry H)
21. 11:16 AM - Re: Trailering (ashontz)
22. 11:31 AM - Re: Trailering (ashontz)
23. 11:41 AM - Throttle Controls CH701 (Mark Colbeck)
24. 11:51 AM - Re: Throttle Controls CH701 (nyterminat@aol.com)
25. 11:58 AM - Re: Throttle Controls CH701 (Mark Colbeck)
26. 12:15 PM - Re: Throttle Controls CH701 (Randy)
27. 12:30 PM - Re: Throttle Controls CH701 (MacDonald Doug)
28. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: Trailering (Robert Taylor)
29. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Trailering (George Swinford)
30. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: Trailering (Juan Vega)
31. 02:15 PM - Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) (MaxNr@aol.com)
32. 02:33 PM - Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (Christian Tremblay)
33. 03:07 PM - Main Spar bolts and holes (steve)
34. 03:13 PM - Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit (Craig Payne)
35. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) (David Downey)
36. 03:34 PM - Wing Stand Plans (lwinger)
37. 03:49 PM - Re: Main Spar bolts and holes (David Downey)
38. 05:09 PM - Adding extra rib to rudder (John Reinking)
39. 05:12 PM - Oil-canning (John Reinking)
40. 05:20 PM - Re: Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) (Juan Vega)
41. 05:22 PM - Re: Oil-canning (Juan Vega)
42. 06:21 PM - Re: Adding extra rib to rudder (Edward Moody II)
43. 06:50 PM - Re: Oil-canning (Joemotis@aol.com)
44. 07:17 PM - Re: Oil-canning (Terry Turnquist)
45. 07:19 PM - Re: Oil-canning (George Swinford)
46. 07:59 PM - Re: Oil-canning (Randy L. Thwing)
47. 08:16 PM - Re: Oil-canning (Southern Reflections)
48. 10:40 PM - Re: Wing Stand Plans (Ron Lendon)
49. 11:03 PM - Re: Re: Wing Stand Plans (Larry Winger)
50. 11:03 PM - Re: Wing Stand Plans (lwinger)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
Does this mean that all of you wonder if there really is a Dog?
do not archive
After reading what Steve Weston found on the bolt holes in the spar of his
quick-built kit I decided to check mine. I face a different problem but it
is just as frustrating.
I have oversized holes in the center spar. The worst are the outer four (two
per side) that pass through the vertical angles which tie the spar to the
fuselage sides (6B13-1). Mine vary between 0.3205 and 0.3245. My guess is
that they were enlarged when they were drilling the matching holes through
the upright angles. The inner eight range between 0.3140 and 0.3175. I'm
still trying to decide if these are too far out. The twelve holes in the
wing spars appear to be within spec.
Accurately measuring these holes is difficult. After using the same tools to
measure a regular AN5 bolt and a home-made taper gauge I am confident in the
*relative* readings. And an AN5 bolts is very loose in the worst holes. I
cross-checked my readings with the shank of a letter "O" ("oh") drill
(0.3145 on my micrometer).
During the holidays I sent an e-mail to ZAC describing the situation and
Rodger called me the morning after the holidays ended. We both agree that
the four worst holes have to be fixed. He is working to come up with what
gap is acceptable so we can decide if the remaining 8 holes are usable. ZAC
is also getting a set of size gauges so we can accurately measure holes on a
sampling of planes. I've ordered a few close-tolerance AN175 bolts to see
how they fit.
For me I think the best way to work on the problem holes is to remove the
center spar from the fuselage, bolt it to each wing in turn and use a
portable drill press or guide to drill and ream. One trick will be
maintaining the position of the vertical angles on the spar. In the QBK each
is held to the center spar with a pair of blind rivets. So I'll probably
take the whole assembly out as a piece. This will allow me to ream the
outermost four holes as a piece.
I would urge anyone with a factory-built spar or QBK to check these holes -
both size and alignment.
-- Craig
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 10k hours |
Dave,
You are correct, and I probably should have highlighted that. The top end
of the engines are dissassembled, cleaned, and adjusted at 360 and 720 hours.
I think they are replaced at 1000, but really don't know. -I'm just a pilot,
ya' know... I did inspect an engine during a 720 that had just been cleaned.
It looked new.
I am under contract for a specific unit, but I work for the company that makes
the Pred. There are airframes all over the world that have thousands of hours
on them. My point was that the failure rate of the Rotax power plant in
our installation is almost nil.
Bob,
I'm sure we use whatever the recommended oil from Rotax is. We run 100LL.
The engine is slightly modified with our proprietary fuel injection system, different
turbo, and our own variable pitch prop.
I am proud of the Corvair I built for my plane - but would have gone with the
Rotax, if I wasn't "wife and 2 kids" poor...
R/
Brandon
I'm pleased that Brandon's unit is getting such reliable service from
these engines, but I think you'll find that they do not use the same
engine for 10K hours. His message said they had 10K hours on the
airftame, which is remarkable but I think they change out the engines
for new on a regular schedule.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filler Frustration |
Guys,
Thanks for all your prompt and helpful replies. Ron, thanks for posting the very
detailed sequence of pictures. Happy building and hope everyone can stay warm
in those garages. Been in the single digits here in Indiana.
Regards,
Dave
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
working on wings
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155903#155903
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| Subject: | Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
Craig
Zenith is debating on how to "fix" my problem also.
I m waiting on their answer. I pulled the last rivet ( the golden rivet)
this past weekenf and dont really want to tear into my interior paint to do
the fix that you say. I guess it might need to be done, but by who ??
I paid Nine Thousand dollars more than the standard kit price just so the
critical parts would be completed by people who know what they are doing.
Of all the screwups that could have happened, it had to be on , what I say
is ithe most critical part, the main attach for the wing. Zenith has told me
that they want to and will take care of the problem.......
I expect Zenith to call soon. I will post the results here and let you know
what happened....
Steve W
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:12 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit
>
> After reading what Steve Weston found on the bolt holes in the spar of his
> quick-built kit I decided to check mine. I face a different problem but it
> is just as frustrating.
>
> I have oversized holes in the center spar. The worst are the outer four
> (two
> per side) that pass through the vertical angles which tie the spar to the
> fuselage sides (6B13-1). Mine vary between 0.3205 and 0.3245. My guess is
> that they were enlarged when they were drilling the matching holes through
> the upright angles. The inner eight range between 0.3140 and 0.3175. I'm
> still trying to decide if these are too far out. The twelve holes in the
> wing spars appear to be within spec.
>
> Accurately measuring these holes is difficult. After using the same tools
> to
> measure a regular AN5 bolt and a home-made taper gauge I am confident in
> the
> *relative* readings. And an AN5 bolts is very loose in the worst holes. I
> cross-checked my readings with the shank of a letter "O" ("oh") drill
> (0.3145 on my micrometer).
>
> During the holidays I sent an e-mail to ZAC describing the situation and
> Rodger called me the morning after the holidays ended. We both agree that
> the four worst holes have to be fixed. He is working to come up with what
> gap is acceptable so we can decide if the remaining 8 holes are usable.
> ZAC
> is also getting a set of size gauges so we can accurately measure holes on
> a
> sampling of planes. I've ordered a few close-tolerance AN175 bolts to see
> how they fit.
>
> For me I think the best way to work on the problem holes is to remove the
> center spar from the fuselage, bolt it to each wing in turn and use a
> portable drill press or guide to drill and ream. One trick will be
> maintaining the position of the vertical angles on the spar. In the QBK
> each
> is held to the center spar with a pair of blind rivets. So I'll probably
> take the whole assembly out as a piece. This will allow me to ream the
> outermost four holes as a piece.
>
> I would urge anyone with a factory-built spar or QBK to check these
> holes -
> both size and alignment.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filler Frustration |
Dave,
If I remember correctly, I reinforced my circumference of the fuel filler neck
area with the cork used on the exterior of the tank. This allowed mt to put a
slight clamp load on the assembly and it all seemed to fit together well.
Good Luck.
Rich Simmons
601 XL Fuselage upper - Front
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
Hi Steve,
I feel your pain.
My own reasons for building a Zodiac are more about building than
flying, so I understand your choices can and should be different from
my own. That said, I feel I can trust my own work better than that
of factory workers whose primary attractiveness is based on their low
wages. Most (all?) of the quick build kits for all the kit
manufacturers are assembled in far off developing countries. I'm
sure the kit companies make valiant efforts to insure high quality
work, but all the comments I have heard recently about the spar
attach holes being oversized don't surprise me a great deal.
I am not completely sure, but I think drilling out the holes to the
next bolt size and reaming them should be a relatively easy
task. The secret is choosing the correct drill size and type of
reamer. When I did a similar task on my replacement wing spar, I
used hard steel drill guides from McMaster-Carr and a hand reamer
with left spiral and right hand cut. The reaming was the easiest
part of the operation. In your case, the already aligned holes
should guide the drill bit and reamer so the biggest problem is to
get them properly positioned for their work while standing on your
head in the cockpit.
I don't have any idea what to expect from ZAC about fixing this
problem. Hopefully, they will do more quality control on the QBKs
received from their contractor. After the kits leave their factory
it seems a difficult task to get them to fix the problem. The travel
for a technician to get to your shop or the difficulty of returning
the fuselage to their factory both seem a lot more than for you to
drill and ream the holes. I might ask them to supply or pay for the
reamer which may cost as much as $50 or so, but that might prove
difficult to manage as well.
One last comment. When I ordered my replacement wing spar, I learned
these parts are not made by Zenith. All the complete spar and
carry-through sets were made by Zenair in Canada. That means the
folks at Zenith don't have much more experience than you do in match
drilling the spars.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive.
At 04:56 AM 1/4/2008, you wrote:
>Zenith is debating on how to "fix" my problem also.
>I m waiting on their answer. I pulled the last rivet ( the golden
>rivet) this past weekenf and dont really want to tear into my
>interior paint to do the fix that you say. I guess it might need
>to be done, but by who ??
>I paid Nine Thousand dollars more than the standard kit price just
>so the critical parts would be completed by people who know what
>they are doing.
>Of all the screwups that could have happened, it had to be on , what
>I say is ithe most critical part, the main attach for the wing.
>Zenith has told me that they want to and will take care of the problem.......
>I expect Zenith to call soon. I will post the results here and let
>you know what happened....
>Steve W
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filler Frustration |
I had already closed my wings when I found out how poorly the fit was in this area.
Here's how I solved it: http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/FuelTankFillerFix
I've noticed Zodiacs at fly-ins where the builder just left it alone and lived
with the big dimple, but I didn't want that on my airplane.
It's not hard to fix, and can easily be done "after the fact".
One other solution that I've seen on Zodiacs is where the builder fabricates about
a 6 inch circle of sheet metal, with a hole in it through which the treaded
bushing is inserted. Think of a "doughnut" shape that covers the whole area.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155920#155920
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
Paul,
Not ALL the offshore folks building kit aircraft can be lumped into your
generalization.
I'm doing the final assembly of an F1 Team Rocket for a client and it
started life as a QB kit from the Czech Republic. The workmanship is
Beechcraft quality or better, everything fits, no scratches,dents or dings,
rivets flush, bolt holes snug, edges perfectly straight etc. Whoever put
this one together it wasn't his/her first rodeo.
It will be interesting to see how Zenith fixes this serious situation with
the sloppy holes. On my RV 3 I used tapered pins which I could ream with a
hand held drill down to the last few turns which I did by hand with a guide.
Worked so far (2000+ hrs)
LO&SLO John
>
> Hi Steve,>
That said, I feel I can trust my own work better than that
> of factory workers whose primary attractiveness is based on their low
> wages. Most (all?) of the quick build kits for all the kit manufacturers
> are assembled in far off developing countries. I'm sure the kit companies
> make valiant efforts to insure high quality work, but all the comments I
> have heard recently about the spar attach holes being oversized don't
> surprise me a great deal.
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Any one fishing from floats in a Zenith? 701 vs 601? |
I have a 701 on Czech 1150a (4 wheel) floats on a Stol 701 and know you would have
a great time flying one. If set up right with a 912s you can cruse at about
90 to 95 MPH. On my Rans S7 cruse go up to 104 with the same floats. By the
way Danny at Sky Shops in Florida still sells the 1150A floats and has a nice
new 1300A float. Between my friend Jim and I we have bought 5 sets of Czech floats.....we
must like them. Float flying is a blast! Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155935#155935
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nose Gear Bearing Material |
Wayne-
I believe the material is Delrin. Larry offers a machined set of
bearings for an HDS, which I installed. You can get by with simple flat
stock ala what is provided in the XL kit, but Larry beefs up the
critical areas while keeping weight at a minimum. From the attached
picture, you can see that pulling the engine is going to be an advantage
to getting access. From experience installing with total access, you're
only going to want to do this once. Don't be penny wise and pound
foolish.
If you have as much snow as we have, at least there will be plenty
of winter for you to get the job done! The bright side is, you won't
have any slop problems when it's over.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: WAYNE BEATTIE
To: Zenithlist
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Nose Gear Bearing Material
After 300+ hours I am seeing a little play in the nose gear bearing
and would like to install the "plastic" bearing material this winter.
This is for a 601 HDS.
Do there bearing pieces come already formed from Zenith or do you
have to but the material blank and do the forming yourself?
I have looked at the parts list and can't seem to find a part number.
Wayne
N601WB
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
Mine isn't a QBK so all this may not effect me. But as I will be mounting my wings
soon I have this question.
If the holes are to big why not just go up in size of bolt?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155947#155947
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: Trailering |
To quote, "For the youngsters here, condoms are not a guarantee against
sexually transmitted diseases. Abstinance is the only truly safe option."
Recognize, however, that LIFE is sexually transmitted! (Do not archive.)
John Goodings.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Off-topic, non-aviation, non-serious - DO NOT READ! |
> Does this mean that all of you wonder if there really is a Dog?
The full joke is:
Q: Did you hear about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac?
A: He lay awake at night wondering if there really was a dog.
-- Craig
Message 14
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| Subject: | Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
In Steve's case all 12 holes are large. Since the spars are made and
match-reamed in the far off land of Canada these holes were never
"processed" in Columbia.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Bolding
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit
Paul,
Not ALL the offshore folks building kit aircraft can be lumped into your
generalization.
I'm doing the final assembly of an F1 Team Rocket for a client and it
started life as a QB kit from the Czech Republic. The workmanship is
Beechcraft quality or better, everything fits, no scratches,dents or dings,
rivets flush, bolt holes snug, edges perfectly straight etc. Whoever put
this one together it wasn't his/her first rodeo.
It will be interesting to see how Zenith fixes this serious situation with
the sloppy holes. On my RV 3 I used tapered pins which I could ream with a
hand held drill down to the last few turns which I did by hand with a guide.
Worked so far (2000+ hrs)
LO&SLO John
>
> Hi Steve,>
That said, I feel I can trust my own work better than that
> of factory workers whose primary attractiveness is based on their low
> wages. Most (all?) of the quick build kits for all the kit manufacturers
> are assembled in far off developing countries. I'm sure the kit companies
> make valiant efforts to insure high quality work, but all the comments I
> have heard recently about the spar attach holes being oversized don't
> surprise me a great deal.
>
Message 15
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Gig, Andy and Amy;
Amazing uses!
I have forwarded your suggestions to Saran Wrap for consideration and possible
implementation!
In today's economy, corporations need to diversify -- prior to reaching the principle
of diminishing returns!
BTW, my bird was snug, warm and DRY during transport!
Mack
Do not archive
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155961#155961
Message 16
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Saran Wrap: The other duct tape.
aprazer wrote:
> Gig, Andy and Amy;
> Amazing uses!
> I have forwarded your suggestions to Saran Wrap for consideration and possible
implementation!
> In today's economy, corporations need to diversify -- prior to reaching the principle
of diminishing returns!
> BTW, my bird was snug, warm and DRY during transport!
> Mack
>
> Do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155962#155962
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fuel System Tank Sump Drain |
Members,
For those of you who are having a problem of having to change the
little O ring on the sump drain furnished with the ZodiacXL kit, the
following information is for you if you are interested. I went to the
Central Texas College Aviation Department and talked to some of the
mechanics about my problem of constant leaking from both wing tank sump
drains and was told, the drain valve furnished by Zenith is not
anywhere as efficient as the Curtis drain valve. I looked in the
Aircraft Spruce Catalog and found on page 163 center right a listing of
Curtis drain valves. The one that will replace the original valve is
model CCA 4850 1/8 NPT P/N 05-00686, Price $14.90 each. I ordered two
and feel that for a total cost of $29.80 plus shipping I will come out
way ahead considering the cost of fuel being wasted because of leaks
Message 18
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| Subject: | Classic Zenair on Ebay |
Perhaps an early ancestor to the Zenith Gemini 620? :-)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cri-Cri-MC-15_W0QQitemZ220188534983QQihZ012QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Patrick
XL/Corvair
N63PZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155967#155967
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
> If the holes are to big why not just go up in size of bolt?
That is the likely solution being discussed. But the wing and center spars
are match reamed and enlarging the holes from AN5 to AN6 on a
nearly-complete plane is difficult. The first step is to establish just
exactly what tolerance the holes should meet. The second step is to acquire
the tools to accurately measure the existing holes. Something like this:
www.grizzly.com/products/g9794
-- Craig
Message 20
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If this is all this website is about, then I AM OUTTA HERE! I have NO TIME TO
WASTE, WITH ALL THESE PEOPLES DELUSIONAL DREAMS. THEY NEED TO GET A LIFE! I'M
SORRY I EVER WASTED MY TIME TAKING THE SUGGESTION OF A FRIEND TO COME HERE TO
"FIND SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS". I HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS TYPE OF CRAP!!
Larry H
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 21
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I have no problems getting info here. I also have no problem find a few laughs
here too as do others.
do not archive
[quote="skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com"]If this is all this website is about, then I
AM OUTTA HERE! I have NO TIME TO WASTE, WITH ALL THESE PEOPLES DELUSIONAL DREAMS.
THEY NEED TO GET A LIFE! I'M SORRY I EVER WASTED MY TIME TAKING THE SUGGESTION
OF A FRIEND TO COME HERE TO "FIND SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS". I HAVE NO INTEREST
IN THIS TYPE OF CRAP!!
Larry H
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155976#155976
Message 22
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What did you need help with. Post a question.
do not archive
[quote="skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com"]If this is all this website is about, then I
AM OUTTA HERE! I have NO TIME TO WASTE, WITH ALL THESE PEOPLES DELUSIONAL DREAMS.
THEY NEED TO GET A LIFE! I'M SORRY I EVER WASTED MY TIME TAKING THE SUGGESTION
OF A FRIEND TO COME HERE TO "FIND SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS". I HAVE NO INTEREST
IN THIS TYPE OF CRAP!!
Larry H
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155979#155979
Message 23
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| Subject: | Throttle Controls CH701 |
Hey guys maybe someone can point me in the right direction? I have purchased a
throttle cable from Aircraft Spruce (3 foot Friction lock) for my 701 Pilot side.
I will use the standard T-Handle for the passenger side. My issue is that
the cable all be it nice, is to long. I cannot seem to locate a shorter length
than 3 feet. I do want a friction lock and one that looks half decent, even if
I can put a custom handle on it. Any suggestions. Brian Unruh I like what you
have done and the set up. Is that a custom length for the cable?
Mark
--------
CH701
60% Complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155982#155982
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Controls CH701 |
Mark, Pull the center cable out and then cut the outer casing to the lenght that
you need. Clean upn the edges of the cut and reinstall the center cable.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/ CH701/140hrs
Hey guys maybe someone can point me in the right direction? I have purchased a
throttle cable from Aircraft Spruce (3 foot Friction lock) for my 701 Pilot
side. I will use the standard T-Handle for the passenger side. My issue is that
the cable all be it nice, is to long. I cannot seem to locate a shorter length
than 3 feet. I do want a friction lock and one that looks half decent, even if
I
can put a custom handle on it. Any suggestions. Brian Unruh I like what you
have done and the set up. Is that a custom length for the cable?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Colbeck <mark@masterpieceliving.ca>
Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 2:40 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle Controls CH701
Hey guys maybe someone can point me in the right direction? I have purchased a
throttle cable from Aircraft Spruce (3 foot Friction lock) for my 701 Pilot
side. I will use the standard T-Handle for the passenger side. My issue is that
the cable all be it nice, is to long. I cannot seem to locate a shorter length
than 3 feet. I do want a friction lock and one that looks half decent, even if
I
can put a custom handle on it. Any suggestions. Brian Unruh I like what you
have done and the set up. Is that a custom length for the cable?
Mark
--------
CH701
60% Complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155982#155982
________________________________________________________________________
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Controls CH701 |
Thanks Bob I will look at it tonight. I figured there had to be an easy way but
I was concerned with pulling on the outer casing or pinching the cable.
--------
CH701
60% Complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155987#155987
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Controls CH701 |
I have a friction lock throttle that came with my FWF kit, from Jabiru, for
my 601xl. It was a about five feet in length but I was able to pull out the
solid inner cable and cut off (with a cut off wheel) the flexible housing to
the length I needed. Then cut the solid inner cable accordingly.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Colbeck" <mark@masterpieceliving.ca>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Throttle Controls CH701
> <mark@masterpieceliving.ca>
>
> Hey guys maybe someone can point me in the right direction? I have
> purchased a throttle cable from Aircraft Spruce (3 foot Friction lock) for
> my 701 Pilot side. I will use the standard T-Handle for the passenger
> side. My issue is that the cable all be it nice, is to long. I cannot seem
> to locate a shorter length than 3 feet. I do want a friction lock and one
> that looks half decent, even if I can put a custom handle on it. Any
> suggestions. Brian Unruh I like what you have done and the set up. Is
> that a custom length for the cable?
> Mark
>
> --------
> CH701
> 60% Complete
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155982#155982
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Controls CH701 |
Mark, I'm at a similar point to you. I also purchased
a 3' universal friction throttle from Aircraft Spruce.
The length of this cable can be easily shortened by
pulling the center core our and carefully cutting the
outer sleaving to length. Then insert the core back
in and cut it to length.
The attach the cable to the throttle bellcrank, I am
going to use B-Nuts (also from Spruce). I cut the arm
of the belcrank just bellow where the original T
throttle arm was supposed to go through. I then
knotched it and welded a 1/8" (I think) tab in such a
way that the arm length remained the same length but
now provided me with a flat tab as opposed to a round
tube. The B-Nut goes through the tab and allows
attachment of the solid wire from the cable.
For the right side throttle, I am going to use a
similar set up but rather than a friction cable, I
picked up a T-handle cable that I think was about 8'
long. Same idea, cut to length.
I have not yet worked out how the cable is going to
pass through my firewall as I'm pretty sure the
Canadian inspectors will not accept the as designed
slot method.
Hope my description is of some help. Sorry, I don't
have any pics handy or any accurate part numbers as I
am at work right now.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do not archive
--- Mark Colbeck <mark@masterpieceliving.ca> wrote:
> <mark@masterpieceliving.ca>
>
> Hey guys maybe someone can point me in the right
> direction? I have purchased a throttle cable from
> Aircraft Spruce (3 foot Friction lock) for my 701
> Pilot side. I will use the standard T-Handle for the
> passenger side. My issue is that the cable all be it
> nice, is to long. I cannot seem to locate a shorter
> length than 3 feet. I do want a friction lock and
> one that looks half decent, even if I can put a
> custom handle on it. Any suggestions. Brian Unruh I
> like what you have done and the set up. Is that a
> custom length for the cable?
> Mark
>
> --------
> CH701
> 60% Complete
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 28
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Hey, Larry. Lighten up a little. It's only temporary. If you need
solutions to problems, please let us know what they are. We'll help if
possible. These "other things" are just filler for when things get too
slow. Honest.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Trailering
If this is all this website is about, then I AM OUTTA HERE! I have NO
TIME TO WASTE, WITH ALL THESE PEOPLES DELUSIONAL DREAMS. THEY NEED TO
GET A LIFE! I'M SORRY I EVER WASTED MY TIME TAKING THE SUGGESTION OF A
FRIEND TO COME HERE TO "FIND SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS". I HAVE NO INTEREST
IN THIS TYPE OF CRAP!!
Larry H
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: Trailering |
Well said, John! Tell Gord I said hello.
George
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:04 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Trailering
>
> To quote, "For the youngsters here, condoms are not a guarantee against
> sexually transmitted diseases. Abstinance is the only truly safe option."
> Recognize, however, that LIFE is sexually transmitted! (Do not archive.)
>
> John Goodings.
>
>
> --
12:05 PM
>
>
Message 30
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you are right! I do say the s word.. given I have kids in diapers, its the stuff
between my finger nails.
-----Original Message-----
>From: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>
>Sent: Jan 3, 2008 8:02 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Trailering
>
>
>Ah hahahaha, wow you're a funny guy. You probably say the poopy word that starts
with S a lot too. You be cool.
>
>
>amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
>> ashontz,
>> jerking off has been found not to be a guarantee from STDs
>>
>> --
>
>
>--------
>Andy Shontz
>CH601XL - Corvair
>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155828#155828
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) |
Lasers? I like that. Something like that thingie under the muzzle of the M1
Tank. My son told me that it reflected a laser to measure barrel bending. Never
thought that was a problem. Do you want to see wing flutter? I did a YouTube
search for "Wing Flutter" and came up with a bunch. Take a look at a few.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQI3AWpTWhM (Sailplane)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4PgyBJAzM&feature=related (B-747)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D7YCCLGu5Y&feature=related (A-6)
Would it work better mounted externally like the thingie on the M1 tank? How
about LED's on the tip at each spar to measure twist also? Many of us sat
through those management classes on "brainstorming" where you get 2 minutes to
find as many possible uses for a paper clip. The only rule is that no one
disparages any idea. Its a wet blanket on problem solving. We seem to be in search
of
a solution to what may not even be a problem. There are reports out there
without a lot of details and many are concerned. The few accidents were reported
without much detail. One seemed to me to be improper or non installation of
the rear spar attach bolt. Info is thin. Fill me in, please. Another, in the UK
appeared to be improper use of the controls. The pilot exceeded limits with an
abrupt elevator input at high speed. The scanty report that I saw does not
even qualify as a report in my opinion. I have confidence in the design as it
is. I did offer my $.02 that if some have doubts, that the structure could be
beefed up. Cessna up graded C-150's to aerobatic certification with heavier
skins and rivets The V-35 Bonanza has been beefed up a lot since 1947. I did some
very hasty calculations that to go up to the next size sheet on the wings
would cost 23 pounds of weight. I did not even consider all the scrap and
trimming. Its called Monocoque for a reason. Not that I would bother doing it.
I'm
happy with the design. In fact, it may even pass muster covered in fabric. Just
kidding. Also, I have flown many A/C that had repairs made to them using the
next size skins. These were in air carrier service and were approved by every
one in sight. People, lets get along and dial it back a little, or I'll start
asking questions about the spin recovery qualities of the 601 series. Stall/spin
is statistically a bigger killer than in flight break up. Any questions?
contact me directly.
Bob Dingley
Pace, FL
XL/Lyc Do not archive
**************
Start the year off right. Easy ways to
stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 32
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| Subject: | Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
I Greg
If it can help you, you can visit my own web site at the followings page
link below. I am not a specialist but I think my own experience can help
you. Don=92t hesitate to ask me questions.
I build my CH640 from plan and I had drilled all holes myself, my wing
spars to my Center Web Spar. I did it with a modified drill press,
because
my specific need for it, and also my drill press dimension itself. ( I
change the center steel tube for a short one)
I clamped all pieces with C clamp, and fixed tight all pieces that need
to
be fixed by the 3/8 an bolts, including uprights during the drilling
job. I
drilled the 12 holes without move any pieces in the drilling process.
Your
process will be a little bit more simple, your holes are already
positioning, you will need to drill one regular hole and one reamer pass
only, without any angle or length alignment spars measurement required.
(Supposed to be done correctly ' just verified that in case).
I suggest you to remove your center web spar and align all spars on a
flat
table. For the bolts dimension is a more tricky questions. Do we have
something between AN5 and AN6 ? And I think you need a good stress
advise
(from specialist) to changes to next AN size, the problem is do you have
end
off material on side spars and between AN6 bolts?
Good luck my friend,
See my web site for more details and photos.
Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
<http://www.zodiac640.com/> http://www.zodiac640.com/
http://www.zodiac640.com/Wing.htm
http://www.zodiac640.com/Photographies/wing_spar_assbl_4.JPG
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Craig
Payne
Envoy=E9 : Friday, January 04, 2008 1:13 AM
=C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com
Objet : Zenith-List: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit
<craig@craigandjean.com>
After reading what Steve Weston found on the bolt holes in the spar of
his
quick-built kit I decided to check mine. I face a different problem but
it
is just as frustrating.
I have oversized holes in the center spar. The worst are the outer four
(two
per side) that pass through the vertical angles which tie the spar to
the
fuselage sides (6B13-1). Mine vary between 0.3205 and 0.3245. My guess
is
that they were enlarged when they were drilling the matching holes
through
the upright angles. The inner eight range between 0.3140 and 0.3175. I'm
still trying to decide if these are too far out. The twelve holes in the
wing spars appear to be within spec.
Accurately measuring these holes is difficult. After using the same
tools to
measure a regular AN5 bolt and a home-made taper gauge I am confident in
the
*relative* readings. And an AN5 bolts is very loose in the worst holes.
I
cross-checked my readings with the shank of a letter "O" ("oh") drill
(0.3145 on my micrometer).
During the holidays I sent an e-mail to ZAC describing the situation and
Rodger called me the morning after the holidays ended. We both agree
that
the four worst holes have to be fixed. He is working to come up with
what
gap is acceptable so we can decide if the remaining 8 holes are usable.
ZAC
is also getting a set of size gauges so we can accurately measure holes
on a
sampling of planes. I've ordered a few close-tolerance AN175 bolts to
see
how they fit.
For me I think the best way to work on the problem holes is to remove
the
center spar from the fuselage, bolt it to each wing in turn and use a
portable drill press or guide to drill and ream. One trick will be
maintaining the position of the vertical angles on the spar. In the QBK
each
is held to the center spar with a pair of blind rivets. So I'll probably
take the whole assembly out as a piece. This will allow me to ream the
outermost four holes as a piece.
I would urge anyone with a factory-built spar or QBK to check these
holes -
both size and alignment.
-- Craig
Message 33
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| Subject: | Main Spar bolts and holes |
I m starting a new thread just so I can keep you all up to date on whats
happening.
Zenith is very concerned about my spar hole situation.
Today I receive an email from Zenith saying that they are sending me a
set of hole gauges so that we can get an accurate measurement of the
holes.
It will probably take a week or so to get it figured out but I will post
immediately any findings that come about......
I d feel really stupid if I really didnt have a problem but I think I
do.
CFI for 37 years and I ve ALWAYS told students to check for slop in the
wings. Move the wing up and down, then back and forth.....there should
be no "play".
On my 601 I have all the main spar bolts inserted. Only three nuts on
each side are snug. I have a super amount of play in the up and down,
Not so much in the forward and back but some. I expect with just the
bolts inserted that I should have no play.. The bolts need to be
somewhat snug in their holes...
Actually in a main spar bolt setup you really shouldnt need nuts on the
bolts. The bolts are in shear and there is no stress on a nut. Nuts
just keep the bolt from falling out. A tappered wing spar pin is
similar, the pin takes the stress.
Enough rambling.... More as news develops....
Steve W...
Message 34
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| Subject: | Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit |
Thanks for the advice and links. Park of the problem is that (this being
a
quick build kit) the wings are done too. So I can=92t lay all three
sections
on a flat surface to do the work.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christian
Tremblay
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit
I Greg
If it can help you, you can visit my own web site at the followings page
link below. I am not a specialist but I think my own experience can help
you. Don=92t hesitate to ask me questions.
I build my CH640 from plan and I had drilled all holes myself, my wing
spars to my Center Web Spar. I did it with a modified drill press,
because
my specific need for it, and also my drill press dimension itself. ( I
change the center steel tube for a short one)
I clamped all pieces with C clamp, and fixed tight all pieces that need
to
be fixed by the 3/8 an bolts, including uprights during the drilling
job. I
drilled the 12 holes without move any pieces in the drilling process.
Your
process will be a little bit more simple, your holes are already
positioning, you will need to drill one regular hole and one reamer pass
only, without any angle or length alignment spars measurement required.
(Supposed to be done correctly ' just verified that in case).
I suggest you to remove your center web spar and align all spars on a
flat
table. For the bolts dimension is a more tricky questions. Do we have
something between AN5 and AN6 ? And I think you need a good stress
advise
(from specialist) to changes to next AN size, the problem is do you have
end
off material on side spars and between AN6 bolts?
Good luck my friend,
See my web site for more details and photos.
Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
<http://www.zodiac640.com/> http://www.zodiac640.com/
http://www.zodiac640.com/Wing.htm
http://www.zodiac640.com/Photographies/wing_spar_assbl_4.JPG
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Craig
Payne
Envoy=E9 : Friday, January 04, 2008 1:13 AM
=C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com
Objet : Zenith-List: Oversized spar bolt holes in a quick-build kit
<craig@craigandjean.com>
After reading what Steve Weston found on the bolt holes in the spar of
his
quick-built kit I decided to check mine. I face a different problem but
it
is just as frustrating.
I have oversized holes in the center spar. The worst are the outer four
(two
per side) that pass through the vertical angles which tie the spar to
the
fuselage sides (6B13-1). Mine vary between 0.3205 and 0.3245. My guess
is
that they were enlarged when they were drilling the matching holes
through
the upright angles. The inner eight range between 0.3140 and 0.3175. I'm
still trying to decide if these are too far out. The twelve holes in the
wing spars appear to be within spec.
Accurately measuring these holes is difficult. After using the same
tools to
measure a regular AN5 bolt and a home-made taper gauge I am confident in
the
*relative* readings. And an AN5 bolts is very loose in the worst holes.
I
cross-checked my readings with the shank of a letter "O" ("oh") drill
(0.3145 on my micrometer).
During the holidays I sent an e-mail to ZAC describing the situation and
Rodger called me the morning after the holidays ended. We both agree
that
the four worst holes have to be fixed. He is working to come up with
what
gap is acceptable so we can decide if the remaining 8 holes are usable.
ZAC
is also getting a set of size gauges so we can accurately measure holes
on a
sampling of planes. I've ordered a few close-tolerance AN175 bolts to
see
how they fit.
For me I think the best way to work on the problem holes is to remove
the
center spar from the fuselage, bolt it to each wing in turn and use a
portable drill press or guide to drill and ream. One trick will be
maintaining the position of the vertical angles on the spar. In the QBK
each
is held to the center spar with a pair of blind rivets. So I'll probably
take the whole assembly out as a piece. This will allow me to ream the
outermost four holes as a piece.
I would urge anyone with a factory-built spar or QBK to check these
holes -
both size and alignment.
-- Craig
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) |
do not archive
When I was a little liaison engineer in structures at the Wallace Division of
Cessna (Business twins, jets, and military) we were told that an Aerobat was
simply a standard C-150 with zero wing and tail deficiencies. I do not know if
that is true or not - but I do know thta we rerely built a twin, jet or military
panel without at least one "biggie" that had to be evaluated by stress engineering...
MaxNr@aol.com wrote:
...Cessna up graded C-150's to aerobatic certification with heavier skins and
rivets...
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Wing Stand Plans |
The link for "Spruce Wing Stand.pdf" on ch601.org is not working. Does anyone
have a copy they could send me? I want to knock that out this weekend.
Thanks.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair from scratch
Control surfaces and wings complete.
Starting fuselage
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156028#156028
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| Subject: | Re: Main Spar bolts and holes |
Hi Steve;
I would be concerned that the hole patterns are not exactly matched. While it
is true that bolted joints get a real boost from face to face friction when the
bolt is torqued correctly, this is one joint where I don't think you want eventual
loosening due to fretting, galling, or other wear related issues.
I would also assume that when you do ream the holes, that you will do one at
a time, disassemble and deburr, then reassemble and pin (at the reamer diameter)
and repeat until all have been brought out to size and pattern.
MIL-B-6812 is the procurement spec for AN5 bolts. the lastr version before it
was cancelled calls for 125,000 psi ultimate tensile strength for the steel bolt.
I would suggest if you don't want to go all the way out to AN6 that you call
some aircraft fastener companies and see which NAS or NASM bolts they have
in the correct grip length that are 1/64th oversize (+0.015625") and 125 KSI.
I would not want to go much higher in tensile strength and certainly not much
lower.
steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net> wrote:
I m starting a new thread just so I can keep you all up to date on whats
happening.
Zenith is very concerned about my spar hole situation.
Today I receive an email from Zenith saying that they are sending me a set of
hole gauges so that we can get an accurate measurement of the holes.
It will probably take a week or so to get it figured out but I will post immediately
any findings that come about......
I d feel really stupid if I really didnt have a problem but I think I do.
CFI for 37 years and I ve ALWAYS told students to check for slop in the wings.
Move the wing up and down, then back and forth.....there should be no "play".
On my 601 I have all the main spar bolts inserted. Only three nuts on each
side are snug. I have a super amount of play in the up and down, Not so much
in the forward and back but some. I expect with just the bolts inserted that
I should have no play.. The bolts need to be somewhat snug in their holes...
Actually in a main spar bolt setup you really shouldnt need nuts on the bolts.
The bolts are in shear and there is no stress on a nut. Nuts just keep the
bolt from falling out. A tappered wing spar pin is similar, the pin takes the
stress.
Enough rambling.... More as news develops....
Steve W...
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Adding extra rib to rudder |
I'm considering fabricating an "end" rib to close the open area at the
bottom of the leading edge of the rudder? Would this create any problems?
Message 39
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Okay, I'm a newbie but what is oil-canning? Is it the flexing of the
skin between the skeleton components? The skins on my rudder all have
some flex (give?) in them. Is this a problem? I'd really appreciate
your input on this. I always thought that the skins would have less
flex (tightness). I'm confused about this issue.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher) |
Bob,
The spin qualities are really benign. I intentionally put my 601 into a spin ,
which is hard to do, and in one turn it came out itself. VERY easy plane to fly.
As for the thicker wing, do what you need to do to feel comfortable flying
the plane you have built your self, if wieght is not imprtant to you. Flutter
will not be cured by thicker metal.
-----Original Message-----
>From: MaxNr@aol.com
>Sent: Jan 4, 2008 5:14 PM
>To: Zenith-List@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing or Flap or Aileron Flutter (Scott Thatcher)
>
>Lasers? I like that. Something like that thingie under the muzzle of the M1
>Tank. My son told me that it reflected a laser to measure barrel bending. Never
>thought that was a problem. Do you want to see wing flutter? I did a YouTube
>search for "Wing Flutter" and came up with a bunch. Take a look at a few.
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQI3AWpTWhM (Sailplane)
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4PgyBJAzM&feature=related (B-747)
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D7YCCLGu5Y&feature=related (A-6)
>Would it work better mounted externally like the thingie on the M1 tank? How
>about LED's on the tip at each spar to measure twist also? Many of us sat
>through those management classes on "brainstorming" where you get 2 minutes to
>find as many possible uses for a paper clip. The only rule is that no one
>disparages any idea. Its a wet blanket on problem solving. We seem to be in search
of
>a solution to what may not even be a problem. There are reports out there
>without a lot of details and many are concerned. The few accidents were reported
>without much detail. One seemed to me to be improper or non installation of
>the rear spar attach bolt. Info is thin. Fill me in, please. Another, in the UK
>appeared to be improper use of the controls. The pilot exceeded limits with an
>abrupt elevator input at high speed. The scanty report that I saw does not
>even qualify as a report in my opinion. I have confidence in the design as it
>is. I did offer my $.02 that if some have doubts, that the structure could be
>beefed up. Cessna up graded C-150's to aerobatic certification with heavier
>skins and rivets The V-35 Bonanza has been beefed up a lot since 1947. I did some
>very hasty calculations that to go up to the next size sheet on the wings
>would cost 23 pounds of weight. I did not even consider all the scrap and
>trimming. Its called Monocoque for a reason. Not that I would bother doing it.
I'm
>happy with the design. In fact, it may even pass muster covered in fabric. Just
>kidding. Also, I have flown many A/C that had repairs made to them using the
>next size skins. These were in air carrier service and were approved by every
>one in sight. People, lets get along and dial it back a little, or I'll start
>asking questions about the spin recovery qualities of the 601 series. Stall/spin
>is statistically a bigger killer than in flight break up. Any questions?
>contact me directly.
>Bob Dingley
>Pace, FL
>XL/Lyc Do not archive
>
>
>**************
>Start the year off right. Easy ways to
>stay in shape.
>
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 41
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oil canning is not a problem, it is when the metal at certain speeds pops in and
out betweeen the support areas. NO BIG DEAL. WE are not building 747s.
-----Original Message-----
>From: John Reinking <reinkings@comcast.net>
>Sent: Jan 4, 2008 8:12 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Oil-canning
>
>
>Okay, I'm a newbie but what is oil-canning? Is it the flexing of the
>skin between the skeleton components? The skins on my rudder all have
>some flex (give?) in them. Is this a problem? I'd really appreciate
>your input on this. I always thought that the skins would have less
>flex (tightness). I'm confused about this issue.
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Adding extra rib to rudder |
Wait until you have mounted the rudder and trimmed the bottom of the
rudder nose skin to clear the fiberglass rudder fairing. Once you have
done that, go for it if you want to. I think other builders have
mentioned closing that open bottom area and have not had any trouble
caused by the mod.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: John Reinking
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:08 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Adding extra rib to rudder
<reinkings@comcast.net>
I'm considering fabricating an "end" rib to close the open area at the
bottom of the leading edge of the rudder? Would this create any
problems?
Message 43
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Oil used to be sold in cans. Think a cardboard tube with punched sheet metal
ends crimped on. When the can had been punctured and drained, you could take
your finger and push on the can end and it would collapse in and make a
sound "dink".
Then when you released pressure, it would pop back and make the sound 'donk'
Zenith (and many other) aircraft are prone to the same thing with wing skins
etc.
Yes I am old
Had a Chevy truck with a can opener tied on under the hood.
Joe Motis
Do not archive
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 44
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We used to get a free can opener with every six pack of beer too! Oh, the good
old days.
do not archive!
Hope this useless info doesn't drive Larry over the brink!
Joemotis@aol.com wrote: Oil used to be sold in cans. Think a cardboard tube
with punched sheet metal ends crimped on. When the can had been punctured and
drained, you could take your finger and push on the can end and it would collapse
in and make a sound "dink".
Then when you released pressure, it would pop back and make the sound 'donk'
Zenith (and many other) aircraft are prone to the same thing with wing skins
etc.
Yes I am old
Had a Chevy truck with a can opener tied on under the hood.
Joe Motis
Do not archive
---------------------------------
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 45
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Also, around the shop or house, light oil used to be dispensed from a
hemispheric-shaped can with a long spout and a slightly convex bottom.
When you upended the can and pushed on the bottom it would make that
characteristic "dink" sound and a few drops of oil would be forced out
the spout.
I admit to being old, too.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: Joemotis@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil-canning
Oil used to be sold in cans. Think a cardboard tube with punched sheet
metal ends crimped on. When the can had been punctured and drained, you
could take your finger and push on the can end and it would collapse in
and make a sound "dink".
Then when you released pressure, it would pop back and make the sound
'donk'
Zenith (and many other) aircraft are prone to the same thing with wing
skins etc.
Yes I am old
Had a Chevy truck with a can opener tied on under the hood.
Joe Motis
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/4/2008 12:05 PM
Message 46
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do not archive
To add to Joe's experience;
Oil cans containing lubricating oil used to be made as shown in the
photo. They had no pump. Their bottoms were convex (bulged to the
outside). To use, one tipped the spount to the area to be lubed, and
with your thumb in the center of the convex bottom, you pushed that
metal which flexed from convex to concave shape. This action forced oil
out the spout. When you released pressure with your thumb, the metal
bottom popped back to the convex shape, ready for another push. When
the can bottom was pushed in and released in this manner, it made the
"dink, donk" sound described by Joe. This motion of metal flexing,
along with it's associated noise, is know as "oil-canning" as it sounds
like the everyday use of a old time oil can.
In the movie "The Wizard of Oz", while traveling along the Yellow Brick
Road, the charectors come upon the Tin Woodsman rusted in place.
Through rusted jaws, he directs them to a such a oil can which they then
used to lube and free him up, with plenty of "dink,donk" sound. Ask
your Kids or Grandkids!
Time for another drink,
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: Joemotis@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil-canning
Oil used to be sold in cans. Think a cardboard tube with punched sheet
metal ends crimped on. When the can had been punctured and drained, you
could take your finger and push on the can end and it would collapse in
and make a sound "dink".
Then when you released pressure, it would pop back and make the sound
'donk'
Zenith (and many other) aircraft are prone to the same thing with wing
skins etc.
Yes I am old
Had a Chevy truck with a can opener tied on under the hood.
Joe Motis
Message 47
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I'am so old that I remember when you couldn't buy soda in a can ....
Joe N101HD
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Turnquist
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil-canning
We used to get a free can opener with every six pack of beer too! Oh,
the good old days.
do not archive!
Hope this useless info doesn't drive Larry over the brink!
Joemotis@aol.com wrote:
Oil used to be sold in cans. Think a cardboard tube with punched
sheet metal ends crimped on. When the can had been punctured and
drained, you could take your finger and push on the can end and it
would collapse in and make a sound "dink".
Then when you released pressure, it would pop back and make the
sound 'donk'
Zenith (and many other) aircraft are prone to the same thing
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Stand Plans |
Larry,
If this is the page your were looking at, it seems to work now.
http://ch601.org/tools/Wing%20Stand/wing_stand.htm
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156093#156093
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Stand Plans |
After my first email, Mark added the construction update which was just what
I was looking for. Thanks for forwarding the link.
Larry
On Jan 4, 2008 10:39 PM, Ron Lendon <rlendon@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> If this is the page your were looking at, it seems to work now.
>
> http://ch601.org/tools/Wing%20Stand/wing_stand.htm
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156093#156093
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Stand Plans |
Thanks to everyone for the off-list replies. The www.ch601.org page has been updated with more detailed info. Thanks, Mark.
Do not archive.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair from scratch
Control surfaces and wings complete.
Starting fuselage
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156097#156097
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