---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/06/08: 70 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:10 AM - Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (kmccune) 2. 07:46 AM - First Flight - N5SL (Scott Laughlin) 3. 07:52 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (LarryMcFarland) 4. 08:03 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Joemotis@aol.com) 5. 08:05 AM - sealing fuel fittings (Gary Thomas) 6. 08:05 AM - Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (ashontz) 7. 08:15 AM - Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (ashontz) 8. 08:19 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Pramod Kotwal) 9. 08:19 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Juan Vega) 10. 08:30 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (wade jones) 11. 08:40 AM - Online built (pavel569) 12. 08:43 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (rroberts) 13. 08:48 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (ROBERT SCEPPA) 14. 08:53 AM - Re: Online built (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 09:06 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Christian Tremblay) 16. 09:09 AM - Re: Online built (ZodieRocket) 17. 09:17 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Terry Phillips) 18. 09:28 AM - Re: Online built (pavel569) 19. 09:32 AM - Re: Re: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass through (Terry Phillips) 20. 09:33 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Jaybannist@cs.com) 21. 09:43 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project () 22. 09:47 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project () 23. 09:50 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project () 24. 09:55 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (ZodieRocket) 25. 10:03 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 26. 10:05 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (ZodieRocket) 27. 10:08 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Paul Mulwitz) 28. 10:18 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (ROBERT SCEPPA) 29. 10:32 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project () 30. 10:32 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Craig Payne) 31. 10:47 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (NYTerminat@aol.com) 32. 10:52 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (William Dominguez) 33. 10:56 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (David Downey) 34. 10:56 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (LarryMcFarland) 35. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (David Downey) 36. 11:00 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (ZodieRocket) 37. 11:03 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Larry H) 38. 11:07 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Craig Payne) 39. 11:22 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Larry Winger) 40. 11:24 AM - HELP- with 6-B-7 (Darrell Haas) 41. 11:36 AM - Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (ashontz) 42. 12:06 PM - Re: HELP- with 6-B-7 (Craig Payne) 43. 12:20 PM - Re: HELP- with 6-B-7 (Bryan Martin) 44. 01:19 PM - Re: Dimensions of CH701 (701flyer) 45. 02:02 PM - Re: Starting my 701 project (steve) 46. 02:02 PM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 47. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Dimensions of CH701 (Craig Payne) 48. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (David Downey) 49. 03:10 PM - Re: Adding extra rib to rudder (ashontz) 50. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Dimensions of CH701 (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) 51. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) 52. 03:39 PM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (n801bh@netzero.com) 53. 03:53 PM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Edward Moody II) 54. 04:05 PM - Re: HELP- with 6-B-7 (Ronald Steele) 55. 04:39 PM - Re: Fuel Filter (dingfelder) 56. 04:46 PM - Re: Starting my 701 project (LarryMcFarland) 57. 04:51 PM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Jugle) 58. 05:06 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Filter (steve) 59. 05:13 PM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (cookwithgas) 60. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Filter (j. davis) 61. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: First Flight - N5SL (Bill Naumuk) 62. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: First Flight - N5SL (Jerry Latimer) 63. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: First Flight - N5SL (LarryMcFarland) 64. 06:44 PM - Re: Starting my 701 project (LRM) 65. 06:45 PM - Re: sealing fuel fittings (Ron Lendon) 66. 07:22 PM - Re: Re: First Flight - N5SL (David Downey) 67. 07:29 PM - Re: HELP- with 6-B-7 (Ronald Steele) 68. 07:33 PM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Ron Lendon) 69. 07:34 PM - Re: HELP- with 6-B-7 (Ronald Steele) 70. 10:12 PM - Re: HELP- with 6-B-7 (Ronald Steele) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update From: "kmccune" What welder did you get? I guess it must work pretty well, but any drawbacks . Anything that you really like about it..... Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156288#156288 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:59 AM PST US From: Scott Laughlin Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd l ike to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me k now. Here is a picture of the magic moment: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG I have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting. Mor e to come! Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Omaha, Nebraska 601XL / Corvair _________________________________________________________________ Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real people making a real difference .. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:25 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project David, Most of the people on this site will not be interested in buying parts from someone other than their intellectual source, Zenith. The parts you speak of are in Zenith inventory and the build we enjoy is based on dealing with the company who's life blood is totally dependent upon this enterprise. The Zenith people are good people and we'd not appreciate anyone trying to convert their intellectual property this way. During your construct, who would you call when you had an engineering problem, or a quality problem, Zenith? I think not! Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: > Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 so guys, I will be > making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like first. So anyone > interested in taking a short cut and think you might want to buy some > parts instead of making them I will be reasonable on pricing so let me > know so I can make ones for you while I make them for myself. > > David Mikesell > 230 Theresa Drive, #6 > Cloverdale, CA 95425 > 209-224-4485 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:56 AM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL In a message dated 1/6/2008 7:48:11 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM writes: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG What a proud moment for you, Scott! Congratulations!!! Joe Motis do not archive **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:29 AM PST US From: Gary Thomas Subject: Zenith-List: sealing fuel fittings In response to a couple of questions on sealing fuel fittings, here's what I used: For the pipe threads I used loctite 567. It worked fine. I borrowed it from someone who had done previous research on this; there may be other alternatives. For sealing the fuel sender I used EZ Turn (its the new name for fuel lube) and I got it from aircraft spruce. I spent several weeks of frustrating testing before trying this stuff and it worked like magic. I'm pretty sure it was recommended by someone in the archives. Gary ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update From: "ashontz" When I make the real thing I'll do just that. Thanks. I'm going to make a little tiny tank first and really pump it up (standing way back of course) just out of curiosity. :) Ron Lendon wrote: > Keep the test pressures low, 2-3 psi if ya go much higher it will deform the tank. Use bubble water in a spray bottle to find the leaks. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156320#156320 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:33 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update From: "ashontz" I bought the Harbor Frieght basic model acetylene torch kit for $100. I also picked up a mini-torch from Harbor Freight just for the hell of it. I'm actually using the jewelers torch. Like that better. Lighter and eaiser to use and has smaller tips. Supplies from Tin Man tech and Fournier we're bad. The most expensive thing there is the special lens which you need because the flux gives off a lot of UV light. Gas welding makes a lot cleaner weld than a MIG or stick for steel. Obviously you can't use either for aluminum, but for an inexpensive way to weld aluminum, gas welding works great! I'll post some pixs of the welds themselves. They're not super pretty stacked dimes, but they are complete penetration welds and they're fairly smooth along the edge, no major melt points, so in essense, the welds themselves are even fairly attractive, just not stacked dimes. I'm sure there's a techinique for that I'll have to practice, but for now I'm happy with the welds. They look infinitely better than when I first tried it. kmccune wrote: > What welder did you get? I guess it must work pretty well, but any drawbacks . Anything that you really like about it..... > > Kevin -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156326#156326 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:39 AM PST US From: Pramod Kotwal Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Scott, Congratulations on your achievement. Pramod Kotwal Nitron, Inc. Scott Laughlin wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd like to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me know. Here is a picture of the magic moment: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG I have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting. More to come! Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Omaha, Nebraska 601XL / Corvair --------------------------------- Watch Cause Effect, a show about real pMTV/?source=text_watchcause' target='_new'>Learn more --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:39 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL scott, Nice JOb! JUan -----Original Message----- >From: Scott Laughlin >Sent: Jan 6, 2008 10:45 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL > >Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. > >Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd like to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me know. > >Here is a picture of the magic moment: > >http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG > >I have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting. More to come! > >Scott Laughlin >www.cooknwithgas.com >Omaha, Nebraska >601XL / Corvair > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Watch Cause Effect, a show about real people making a real difference. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:18 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Congratulations Scott ,You built a beautiful aircraft and your site has been a great help to me . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Laughlin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd like to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me know. Here is a picture of the magic moment: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPGI have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting. More to come! Scott Laughlinwww.cooknwithgas.comOmaha, Nebraska601XL / Corvair ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real pMTV/?source=text_watchcause' target='_new'>Learn more ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:49 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Online built From: "pavel569" I'd like to know your opinion. In about 2 weeks I'm going to start my Zodiac standard kit construction and the plan is to use Camstream.com to build it live with video/audio stream. I already have a tail kit and the rest should be arriving in February or so. The question is - is it a good idea? What I hope for is that someone who may be watching the cam may see a mistake I'm going to make and can stop me from doing it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156338#156338 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL From: "rroberts" Great job Scott. Keep it safe up there. BTW..what's all that white stiff on the ground?? [Wink] -------- Low & Slow Rick www.n701rr.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156340#156340 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:07 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project > How are you good at making lihtning holes?? --- skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: > Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 > so guys, I will be making wing ribs and horizontal > ribs and the like first. So anyone interested in > taking a short cut and think you might want to buy > some parts instead of making them I will be > reasonable on pricing so let me know so I can make > ones for you while I make them for myself. > > David Mikesell > 230 Theresa Drive, #6 > Cloverdale, CA 95425 > 209-224-4485 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:20 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Online built This sounds like an interesting idea, but there is one question that comes to mind. Who will spend the time to watch hours and hours of somebody else building an airplane? Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 08:39 AM 1/6/2008, you wrote: >I'd like to know your opinion. In about 2 weeks I'm going to start >my Zodiac standard kit construction and the plan is to use >Camstream.com to build it live with video/audio stream. I already >have a tail kit and the rest should be arriving in February or so. >The question is - is it a good idea? What I hope for is that someone >who may be watching the cam may see a mistake I'm going to make and >can stop me from doing it. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:45 AM PST US From: Christian Tremblay Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project David, I agree with Larry comments you can=92t do that, offers to do pieces for other builders to save them costs or labour time. Zenith are one of the more generous constructors who made fabrication and detail plans, and sell it, to permit to builders to do their pieces themselves. You will be out of law if you doing that kind of services. Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ _____ De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de skyguynca@skyguynca.com Envoy=E9 : Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:57 AM =C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com Objet : Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 so guys, I will be making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like first. So anyone interested in taking a short cut and think you might want to buy some parts instead of making them I will be reasonable on pricing so let me know so I can make ones for you while I make them for myself. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:22 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Online built There has already been a build on the web by Tommy Walker. This will not help you in any way in your building process. IT will be good for others to see the process of building. However, the people who have been there and done that will not be the ones watching. This will also slow your building down, as you will have to answer questions and engage in conversations that take time away from building. It's a good thing to do, but it will be like having an open door policy at the hanger, anyone will drop in and sit in your chair for a half a day talking to you because they have nothing else to do. There is nothing wrong in this but it is best done on scheduled days. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not arcive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pavel569 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Online built I'd like to know your opinion. In about 2 weeks I'm going to start my Zodiac standard kit construction and the plan is to use Camstream.com to build it live with video/audio stream. I already have a tail kit and the rest should be arriving in February or so. The question is - is it a good idea? What I hope for is that someone who may be watching the cam may see a mistake I'm going to make and can stop me from doing it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156338#156338 1/6/2008 11:57 AM 1/6/2008 11:57 AM ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:27 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Congratulations Scott! Well done. Good luck with your flight test. I look forward to the video from your rudder cam. Terry At 09:45 AM 1/6/2008 -0600, you wrote: >Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the >pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. > >Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd >like to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me >know. > >Here is a picture of the magic moment: Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:56 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Online built From: "pavel569" Mark, it seems that I'll rethink it again before the start. I want to build more than discuss, that is for sure. Thanks zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > There has already been a build on the web by Tommy Walker. This will not > help you in any way in your building process. IT will be good for others > to see the process of building. However, the people who have been there > and done that will not be the ones watching. This will also slow your > building down, as you will have to answer questions and engage in > conversations that take time away from building. It's a good thing to > do, but it will be like having an open door policy at the hanger, anyone > will drop in and sit in your chair for a half a day talking to you > because they have nothing else to do. There is nothing wrong in this but > it is best done on scheduled days. > > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario > Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started > www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > do not arcive > -- -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156355#156355 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:37 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alternatives to the 601XL steering rod firewall pass through Thanks to all who responded. I think I've seen enough of both sides of the issue now to conclude that it is probably not worth the effort (and risk) to design and build my own castering nose wheel. To build the original design would be a whole lot simpler, and simpler is, usually, better. Terry At 08:17 AM 1/1/2008 -0800, you wrote: >I have over 1300 hours in taildraggers, and I'm now building a 601XL. One >of the big reasons for choosing this design is the stearable nose >wheel. I'm tired of fighting crosswinds while taxiing, or taking off, >with brakes only. > >I'm 6'3" tall and will move the pedals as far forward as I can (which the >factory tells me I can do). With that, and maybe thinner pads on the >seats, I expect to be very comfortable. > >Happy New Year! > >Dale Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:17 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Scott, Whether you are the first or not (I'll buy your claim), yours is a great milestone! CONGRATULATIONS!!! Jay in Dallas Scott Laughlin wrote: >Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. > >Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd like to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me know. > >Here is a picture of the magic moment: > >http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG > >I have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting. More to come! > >Scott Laughlin >www.cooknwithgas.com >Omaha, Nebraska >601XL / Corvair > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Watch Cause Effect, a show about real people making a real difference. > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:24 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Larry, I have been watching your posts on here for a while. I must admit your implication that I am stealing interlectual property is a insult. I am just offering to help out if someone wants it. I did not post on here that I am making a inventory to sell. I just said if anyone needs ribs while I am making mine I would not mind helping out. I live right by Mr Heintz here at Quality Sport Planes and have alot of respect for the guy and the company. Now if helping someone out with parts and advice is stealing, well Larry get off the list because you have been doing it for a while. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:51 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project > > David, > Most of the people on this site will not be interested in buying parts > from someone other than their intellectual source, Zenith. The parts you > speak of are in Zenith inventory > and the build we enjoy is based on dealing with the company who's life > blood is totally dependent upon this enterprise. The Zenith people are > good people and we'd not appreciate anyone trying to convert their > intellectual property this way. During your construct, who would you call > when you had an engineering problem, or a quality problem, Zenith? I > think not! > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: >> Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 so guys, I will be >> making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like first. So anyone >> interested in taking a short cut and think you might want to buy some >> parts instead of making them I will be reasonable on pricing so let me >> know so I can make ones for you while I make them for myself. >> David Mikesell >> 230 Theresa Drive, #6 >> Cloverdale, CA 95425 >> 209-224-4485 >> skyguynca@skyguynca.com >> www.skyguynca.com > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:49 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Look, I am not wanting to argue with you guys. I am breaking no laws!!!!!! I have been building and repairing airplanes for years!!!!! Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraftI have built parts for and not broken any laws. I am not looking to sell parts for a bunch of people. I am just offering to help while I build mine, that is it. You speak of technical support violation, parts violation and such,...........well guys (by the way I have all the DVDs and think the guys are a great help) Homebuilt help is selling technical support and its not Zenith. I am just building and offering to knock out a few extra ribs for people who need them. NOT STEALING ANYTHING!! David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Tremblay To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project David, I agree with Larry comments you can't do that, offers to do pieces for other builders to save them costs or labour time. Zenith are one of the more generous constructors who made fabrication and detail plans, and sell it, to permit to builders to do their pieces themselves. You will be out of law if you doing that kind of services. Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de skyguynca@skyguynca.com Envoy=E9 : Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:57 AM =C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com Objet : Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 so guys, I will be making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like first. So anyone interested in taking a short cut and think you might want to buy some parts instead of making them I will be reasonable on pricing so let me know so I can make ones for you while I make them for myself. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:04 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project I have flanging dies. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT SCEPPA" Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project > >> How are you good at making lihtning holes?? > --- skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: > >> Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 >> so guys, I will be making wing ribs and horizontal >> ribs and the like first. So anyone interested in >> taking a short cut and think you might want to buy >> some parts instead of making them I will be >> reasonable on pricing so let me know so I can make >> ones for you while I make them for myself. >> >> David Mikesell >> 230 Theresa Drive, #6 >> Cloverdale, CA 95425 >> 209-224-4485 >> skyguynca@skyguynca.com >> www.skyguynca.com > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:02 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project There is a difference between two guys sharing the work of construction of a plans built plane and someone building parts to sell directly. David, are these parts of your own design? Or are you using the design of Chris Heintz to make your parts? Do you have a different wing for the 701? No? I noticed you are in Cloverdale California so have you told Michael Heintz, the son of the designer that you are going to retail parts you have made from his fathers designs. Thus possibly stealing from both Michael Heintz and his father. As a distributor, Michael is obligated as we all are to support the builders with valid serial #'s and don't get me wrong it is one of the best things I do all day, I enjoy talking to builders and helping as much as possible. The plans that are bought are from Michael and all other Distributors are the Royalties paid to the designer. SO if a Distributor can sell a few parts then he is compensated for the time he spends in helping others through the decision and building process. Chris Heintz has always wanted people to be able to afford his designs, sometimes it just involves more work and time. Therefore, for the most part builders are able to build from plans. Then we have people Like Dave that want to make some money, either to offset the costs of there own building or to profit. I guess the only real answer to this is to ensure that no future plans are made available, only kits! I hope it never comes to that but it is a growing trend, if we as a building community don't get upset at these actions of individuals, or try to stop it then we can kiss our future plans building projects good-bye. Even I have made this decision. In making floats I have invested a great amount in tooling and invested a huge sum of time. I will not be releasing the plans until I have recovered the cost, and since I wish to keep my prices as low as possible it will be a very long time before I, if ever release plans. This decision is a direct reflection from discussions on this list. You can argue the ownership of intellectual property all you want. The final result is no more plans available for new models, maybe when the new design is 10 years old It may be time to release the plans as a company is gearing up for there next release. I never hear from 801 people about making parts for others, or of 801 copies. Funny that it is the only kit from Zenith that only comes with a builders manual and not a set of plans. This has not come to pass yet, or has it. The patriot is a LSA only? I would like to see plans for new models become available, but if asked by the company today I would say not to release the plans. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- > Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 > so guys, I will be making wing ribs and horizontal > ribs and the like first. So anyone interested in > taking a short cut and think you might want to buy > some parts instead of making them I will be > reasonable on pricing so let me know so I can make > ones for you while I make them for myself. > > David Mikesell > 230 Theresa Drive, #6 > Cloverdale, CA 95425 > 209-224-4485 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 1/6/2008 11:57 AM 1/6/2008 11:57 AM ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:17 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project This has been beat to death about a month ago and both sides are right so give it a rest. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:43 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project As for Homebuilthelp.com . Are you delusional ? Surly if you have his scratch built DVD then you should realize that his DVD=92s are encouraged as educational. Not as offering to sell parts to others, which in your first post is all you did. You did not say you were going to teach people you stated that you were willing to sell parts that you have made from the Zenith plans. Also when was the last time you or ANYONE has seen a bill for technical support from Zenith. The HomebuiltHELP DVD=92s are a support to the Zenith factory and community by reducing Tech support calls. Helping others understand the process. I may have miss read your intentions and you may genuinely wanted to just help some people out, but you should re-think your first letter. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skyguynca@skyguynca.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Look, I am not wanting to argue with you guys. I am breaking no laws!!!!!! I have been building and repairing airplanes for years!!!!! Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraftI have built parts for and not broken any laws. I am not looking to sell parts for a bunch of people. I am just offering to help while I build mine, that is it. You speak of technical support violation, parts violation and such,...........well guys (by the way I have all the DVDs and think the guys are a great help) Homebuilt help is selling technical support and its not Zenith. I am just building and offering to knock out a few extra ribs for people who need them. NOT STEALING ANYTHING!! David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 HYPERLINK "mailto:skyguynca@skyguynca.com"skyguynca@skyguynca.com HYPERLINK "http://www.skyguynca.com"www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:cj.tremblay@videotron.ca"Christian Tremblay "mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com"zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project David, I agree with Larry comments you can=92t do that, offers to do pieces for other builders to save them costs or labour time. Zenith are one of the more generous constructors who made fabrication and detail plans, and sell it, to permit to builders to do their pieces themselves. You will be out of law if you doing that kind of services. Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan HYPERLINK "http://www.zodiac640.com/"http://www.zodiac640.com/ _____ De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de skyguynca@skyguynca.com Envoy=E9 : Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:57 AM =C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com Objet : Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 so guys, I will be making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like first. So anyone interested in taking a short cut and think you might want to buy some parts instead of making them I will be reasonable on pricing so let me know so I can make ones for you while I make them for myself. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 HYPERLINK "mailto:skyguynca@skyguynca.com"skyguynca@skyguynca.com HYPERLINK "http://www.skyguynca.com"www.skyguynca.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion 1/6/2008 11:57 AM 1/6/2008 11:57 AM ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:10 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Hi David, I want to tell you that it is not everyone on the list that thinks you are violating laws. It is a small, but loud, group of people who don't have any clue about law or business. That doesn't stop them from expressing their opinions. I am all for free speech and I would fight for everyone's right to express their ideas. On the other hand, I am painfully tired of listening to all the people who think they can invent laws to protect Zenith aircraft designs and services. If indeed there were such laws, I would like to know what government agency enforces the laws. Do you go to your local policeman to get this law enforced? What does the law say? What is the penalty for violating it? If the law were as protective of designs as some of these people think, then nobody would ever be able to use a wheel since that was invented by someone else a long time ago. Indeed, there are wheels on Zenith designed airplanes so they must be in violation of this law too. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 09:47 AM 1/6/2008, you wrote: >Look, I am not wanting to argue with you guys. I am breaking no >laws!!!!!! I have been building and repairing airplanes for >years!!!!! Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraftI have built parts for >and not broken any laws. I am not looking to sell parts for a bunch >of people. I am just offering to help while I build mine, that is >it. You speak of technical support violation, parts violation and >such,...........well guys (by the way I have all the DVDs and think >the guys are a great help) Homebuilt help is selling technical >support and its not Zenith. I am just building and offering to knock >out a few extra ribs for people who need them. NOT STEALING ANYTHING!! > >David Mikesell ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:29 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project > I would think that if a guy wanted to build from > scratch, he would be building from scratch or he > would buy the kit. Why would he spend more time > bulding extra parts? I know from my own 701 project > that it took a while just to make my own parts, but > did make tools that help me get over the hurdles. I > wouldn't mind sharing ideas with anyone. Thats what > homebuilding is about. Do not archive... --- skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: > > > Larry, I have been watching your posts on here for a > while. I must admit > your implication that I am stealing interlectual > property is a insult. I am > just offering to help out if someone wants it. I did > not post on here that I > am making a inventory to sell. I just said if anyone > needs ribs while I am > making mine I would not mind helping out. I live > right by Mr Heintz here at > Quality Sport Planes and have alot of respect for > the guy and the company. > Now if helping someone out with parts and advice is > stealing, well Larry get > off the list because you have been doing it for a > while. > > David Mikesell > 230 Theresa Drive, #6 > Cloverdale, CA 95425 > 209-224-4485 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LarryMcFarland" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:51 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project > > > > > > > David, > > Most of the people on this site will not be > interested in buying parts > > from someone other than their intellectual source, > Zenith. The parts you > > speak of are in Zenith inventory > > and the build we enjoy is based on dealing with > the company who's life > > blood is totally dependent upon this enterprise. > The Zenith people are > > good people and we'd not appreciate anyone trying > to convert their > > intellectual property this way. During your > construct, who would you call > > when you had an engineering problem, or a quality > problem, Zenith? I > > think not! > > > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > > > > skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: > >> Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a > 701 so guys, I will be > >> making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like > first. So anyone > >> interested in taking a short cut and think you > might want to buy some > >> parts instead of making them I will be reasonable > on pricing so let me > >> know so I can make ones for you while I make them > for myself. > >> David Mikesell > >> 230 Theresa Drive, #6 > >> Cloverdale, CA 95425 > >> 209-224-4485 > >> skyguynca@skyguynca.com > > >> www.skyguynca.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Forums! > > Admin. > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:18 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok people, I am not the Devil incarnate!!!!!!!!!! All I said was I was building ribs for the wings, horizontal and tail and if anyone needed some while I was making mine I would help. That is all, I never said I was making a inventory to sell. You guys get a grip. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project As for Homebuilthelp.com . Are you delusional ? Surly if you have his scratch built DVD then you should realize that his DVD's are encouraged as educational. Not as offering to sell parts to others, which in your first post is all you did. You did not say you were going to teach people you stated that you were willing to sell parts that you have made from the Zenith plans. Also when was the last time you or ANYONE has seen a bill for technical support from Zenith. The HomebuiltHELP DVD's are a support to the Zenith factory and community by reducing Tech support calls. Helping others understand the process. I may have miss read your intentions and you may genuinely wanted to just help some people out, but you should re-think your first letter. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skyguynca@skyguynca.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:47 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Look, I am not wanting to argue with you guys. I am breaking no laws!!!!!! I have been building and repairing airplanes for years!!!!! Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraftI have built parts for and not broken any laws. I am not looking to sell parts for a bunch of people. I am just offering to help while I build mine, that is it. You speak of technical support violation, parts violation and such,...........well guys (by the way I have all the DVDs and think the guys are a great help) Homebuilt help is selling technical support and its not Zenith. I am just building and offering to knock out a few extra ribs for people who need them. NOT STEALING ANYTHING!! David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Tremblay To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project David, I agree with Larry comments you can't do that, offers to do pieces for other builders to save them costs or labour time. Zenith are one of the more generous constructors who made fabrication and detail plans, and sell it, to permit to builders to do their pieces themselves. You will be out of law if you doing that kind of services. Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de skyguynca@skyguynca.com Envoy=E9 : Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:57 AM =C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com Objet : Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 so guys, I will be making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like first. So anyone interested in taking a short cut and think you might want to buy some parts instead of making them I will be reasonable on pricing so let me know so I can make ones for you while I make them for myself. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - The Zenith-List Email Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. 1/6/2008 11:57 AM 1/6/2008 11:57 AM ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:18 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project When I bought my kit and plans from Zenith I signed a legally enforceable contract. I'm including a quote from it below. BUT throwing around words like "theft" and "breaking the law" just overheats the issue. NOBODY is trying to, or going to get rich building kit planes. Accept the offer in the spirit it was given. Ask David to run his idea past Zenith - it is their rights we are arguing about. I'm certain David respects Zenith as a company otherwise he would not be trusting them with his LIFE. "2. This contract permits the buyer to build one airplane or part of it in the Custom-Built, Experimental, Ultralight, etc. category. The type of aircraft and the Drawings serial number must be visibly marked on the vertical tail or fuselage sides of the aircraft. The buyer is advised that the Drawings, Manuals, and/or parts contain proprietary rights. The buyer covenants and agrees that he will not: a) Reproduce, b) Communicate, c) Transfer, sell, exchange or modify them or any part of them, d) Permit any other person to use said drawings, manual, and/or parts, without the written permission of the Company. The sole purpose of the plans, drawings, manuals, and parts is strictly educational and there is no implied or expressed warranty. During the construction the buyer is to cause the structure and installations to be inspected and approved by the relevant government and/or aviation authority (FAA). The Buyer agrees to notify the Company in writing immediately of the sale of any Drawings and Manuals, parts, components, or kit, whether completed or not, supplying the complete name and address of the new owner(s)." -- Craig ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:11 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Big Congratulations Scott!!!! Do not archive In a message dated 1/6/2008 10:48:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM writes: Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:13 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Congratulation Scott! Not sure if your 601XL is the first scratch built to fly, at least is the only one I know. But for sure, yours is the first scratch built, Corvair powered and BRS fitted that takes to the skies. You can surely claim that one. I've been following your project from your web site since you where buiding your wings. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom/ Site still a work in progress. Scott Laughlin wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd like to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me know. Here is a picture of the magic moment: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG I have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting. More to come! Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Omaha, Nebraska 601XL / Corvair --------------------------------- Watch Cause Effect, a show about real pMTV/?source=text_watchcause' target='_new'>Learn more ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:02 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Congrats Scott. Way to go! Be careful and have the time of your life! Scott Laughlin wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd like to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me know. Here is a picture of the magic moment: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG I have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting. More to come! Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Omaha, Nebraska 601XL / Corvair --------------------------------- Watch Cause Effect, a show about real pMTV/?source=text_watchcause' target='_new'>Learn more Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:07 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project David, At the header of my page, it says "*(I do */*not*/* make part(s) that Zenith sells or that are representative of Zenith proprietary product inventory.)" *There have been other offers like yours, and as well meant as it sounded it just isn't the correct thing to do. We're talking about parts here, not advice. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: > > Larry, I have been watching your posts on here for a while. I must > admit your implication that I am stealing interlectual property is a > insult. I am just offering to help out if someone wants it. I did not > post on here that I am making a inventory to sell. I just said if > anyone needs ribs while I am making mine I would not mind helping out. > I live right by Mr Heintz here at Quality Sport Planes and have alot > of respect for the guy and the company. Now if helping someone out > with parts and advice is stealing, well Larry get off the list because > you have been doing it for a while. > > David Mikesell > 230 Theresa Drive, #6 > Cloverdale, CA 95425 > 209-224-4485 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com > ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:51 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project > > >> >> >> David, >> Most of the people on this site will not be interested in buying >> parts from someone other than their intellectual source, Zenith. The >> parts you speak of are in Zenith inventory >> and the build we enjoy is based on dealing with the company who's >> life blood is totally dependent upon this enterprise. The Zenith >> people are good people and we'd not appreciate anyone trying to >> convert their intellectual property this way. During your construct, >> who would you call when you had an engineering problem, or a quality >> problem, Zenith? I think not! >> >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >> >> >> skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: >>> Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 so guys, I will >>> be making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like first. So >>> anyone interested in taking a short cut and think you might want to >>> buy some parts instead of making them I will be reasonable on >>> pricing so let me know so I can make ones for you while I make them >>> for myself. >>> David Mikesell >>> 230 Theresa Drive, #6 >>> Cloverdale, CA 95425 >>> 209-224-4485 >>> skyguynca@skyguynca.com >>> www.skyguynca.com >> > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:30 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update perhaps initially use pressurized water. no risk of explosion with water. When I make the real thing I'll do just that. Thanks. I'm going to make a little tiny tank first and really pump it up (standing way back of course) just out of curiosity. :) Ron Lendon wrote: > Keep the test pressures low, 2-3 psi if ya go much higher it will deform the tank. Use bubble water in a spray bottle to find the leaks. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156320#156320 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:02 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Paul, you are right, but these replies have less to do with the letter of the law then the ethics of the individual and there intent. If we all believed in the letter of the law and ethics did not play a role in decisions then you would not see any designer provide plans for his aircraft. Nor would you see any future plans become available. I fight for the future plans builders, which right now is in more jeopardy then you can believe and there are some really great designs on the board for the future. I have no problem with someone making parts for a friend and vice versa sharing jobs to complete there aircraft. Each of us have signed a Builders Agreement to get our plans, Line 2 states this This contract permits the buyer to build one airplane or part of it in the Custom-Built, Experimental, Ultralight, etc. category. The type of aircraft and the Drawings serial number must be visibly marked on the vertical tail or fuselage sides of the aircraft. The buyer is advised that the Drawings, Manuals, and/or parts contain proprietary rights. The buyer covenants and agrees that he will not: a) Reproduce, b) Communicate, c) Transfer, sell, exchange or modify them or any part of them, d) Permit any other person to use said drawings, manual, and/or parts, without the written permission of the Company. I am old fashioned and truly believe that a mans handshake and signature is his ethical bond. IF I sign a document that says I cannot use a persons design to sell his parts without expressed permission then maybe I shouldn=92t, legal or not, I have signed my name to it. So after reading the line from the contract Paul, do you still feel it is right to make a part from the plans and sell it in any way? I am at a loss, I cannot force my views upon you or anyone and all my ramblings here on this subject are just that they are my opinion, but god I hope more people out there share my view then yours. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Hi David, I want to tell you that it is not everyone on the list that thinks you are violating laws. It is a small, but loud, group of people who don't have any clue about law or business. That doesn't stop them from expressing their opinions. I am all for free speech and I would fight for everyone's right to express their ideas. On the other hand, I am painfully tired of listening to all the people who think they can invent laws to protect Zenith aircraft designs and services. If indeed there were such laws, I would like to know what government agency enforces the laws. Do you go to your local policeman to get this law enforced? What does the law say? What is the penalty for violating it? If the law were as protective of designs as some of these people think, then nobody would ever be able to use a wheel since that was invented by someone else a long time ago. Indeed, there are wheels on Zenith designed airplanes so they must be in violation of this law too. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 09:47 AM 1/6/2008, you wrote: Look, I am not wanting to argue with you guys. I am breaking no laws!!!!!! I have been building and repairing airplanes for years!!!!! Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraftI have built parts for and not broken any laws. I am not looking to sell parts for a bunch of people. I am just offering to help while I build mine, that is it. You speak of technical support violation, parts violation and such,...........well guys (by the way I have all the DVDs and think the guys are a great help) Homebuilt help is selling technical support and its not Zenith. I am just building and offering to knock out a few extra ribs for people who need them. NOT STEALING ANYTHING!! David Mikesell "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion 1/6/2008 11:57 AM 1/6/2008 11:57 AM ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:18 AM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Hey Dave, I strongly urge you to just FORGET trying to help these people out. They aren't worth getting your shorts in a bunch and driving your blood pressure through the roof. I learned my lesson last week, that's why I rarely post anything on here any longer. Its more a BASHING TIME on here rather than trying to help someone out, OR they just want to be make really STUPID and ludicrous statements back and forth. It ends up being just a damned pissing match.......(OH, did I just say that???? Ask me if I'm sorry....go ahead, I dare you. Ban me....I really don't give a good rats ass either......damn, I did it again, didn't I???) Like I said Dave, these people aren't worthy of your help. I only drop on here when I'm not working on my plane......maybe they need to be working on their's too instead of flapping their traps, eh?? Larry H --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:05 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Congratulations Scott. Do you have any W&B figures? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:23 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Scott, What a great accomplishment! Your fellow scratch builders can appreciate the tremendous amount of work this represents...and we all owe you a big "thanks" for such a great website. Congratulations. Larry Winger Tustin, CA Scratchbuilding 601XL/Corvair Wings done! Working on the fuselage Do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:44 AM PST US From: "Darrell Haas" Subject: Zenith-List: HELP- with 6-B-7 Help! I am working on my fuse-601 firewall. I look at my plans 6-B-7 and make the slots for the steering rods R=7 and 130 apart left and right and 35 from the bottom. I think I'm pretty much done until I find an 8 1/2 x 11 drawing from the previous owner dated 08/07. It has the slots R=9 and they start 57 from the bottom and they have a 6-B-7-4 slide cover and 6-B7-5 steering Box Slide on the drawing. My plans do not show 6-B-7-4 or 6-B-7-5 and they were not provided in my fuse kit. And by the way I could not fond this new drawing on the Zenith web site. It came from Caleb. Anyone out there have the same problem or have an answer? Darrell 601 xl fuse N723DD reserved ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update From: "ashontz" No message for some reason. do not archive [quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156391#156391 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:01 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: HELP- with 6-B-7 The slides are used on the AMD-built 601XL. Zenith in Mexico, MO doesn't show them on the kit plans although the online parts catalog does show the parts you describe here (but when I asked don't actually offer them for sale): www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/parts6xb13.pdf The dimension shown on 6-B-7 work fine but they are taller than they need to be with the latest parts. I don't know if your kit has this but Zenith added a stop ring on to the nose gear tube. See 6-G-1, dated 03/06. The ring is 95 mm down from the bottom of the cross tube where the steering rods connect. Because the nose gear bottom bearing V-block (6G2-1) is 20 mm thick at its narrowest the nose gear cannot move farther than 95-20 or 75 mm up and down. This means that IF YOU WANTED A PERFECT FIT the slot would only need to be 75 mm plus the diameter of a steering rod (5/16 inches or 8 mm) - total 83 mm. So the 130 mm height (plus two 7 mm radiuses) called out on 6-B-7 seems excessive. This is an area of complex geometry. Even with the nose gear not moving up and down the steering rods still move up and down and left and right. They move up and down due to the radius that the bolts on the rudder pedals travel through as the pedals move fore and aft. And they move left and right as the bolts on the nose gear cross tube move through their radius as the nose rear turns left and right. If you want the slot to be the absolute minimum size then wait until the pedals are installed and the nose gear in place to trim the slots. But search the archives - there are many ways to seal the slots. If you want to add a stop ring Larry McFarland sells an add-on one. See: www.macsmachine.com/images/Itemsforsale/full/travel-stop-and-stear-link.gif -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Haas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:24 PM Subject: Zenith-List: HELP- with 6-B-7 Help! I am working on my fuse-601 firewall. I look at my plans 6-B-7 and make the slots for the steering rods R=7 and 130 apart left and right and 35 from the bottom. I think I'm pretty much done until I find an 8 1/2 x 11 drawing from the previous owner dated 08/07. It has the slots R=9 and they start 57 from the bottom and they have a 6-B-7-4 slide cover and 6-B7-5 steering Box Slide on the drawing. My plans do not show 6-B-7-4 or 6-B-7-5 and they were not provided in my fuse kit. And by the way I could not fond this new drawing on the Zenith web site. It came from Caleb. Anyone out there have the same problem or have an answer? Darrell 601 xl fuse N723DD reserved ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:10 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP- with 6-B-7 I believe the S-LSA version of the XL built by AMD in Georgia includes the steering slot covers to seal the steering rod penetrations through the firewall. This may be one of the requirements of the consensus standards for S-LSA. That may be what the 8 1/5 x 11 sheet is showing. The plans for the homebuilt kit from Zenith did not include these parts and sealing the slots was left to the discretion of the builder. If you have already cut your steering slots, don't worry, they will probably work fine. You may want to find some way of sealing up the slots so that air can't enter the cabin through them in flight. Check the list archives and search for "steering slots" or "steering rod" and you will find several suggestions for sealing the slots, this subject has been discussed at length on the list in the past. Click on the list navigator link at the bottom of this message then click on the archive search engine link. Or go to: http://www.matronics.com/search/ There are also photos of some of the solutions in the photoshare archives. Darrell Haas wrote: > Help! I am working on my fuse-601 firewall. I look at my plans 6-B-7 > and make the slots for the steering rods R=7 and 130 apart left and > right and 35 from the bottom. I think I'm pretty much done until I find > an 8 1/2 x 11 drawing from the previous owner dated 08/07. It has the > slots R=9 and they start 57 from the bottom and they have a 6-B-7-4 > slide cover and 6-B7-5 steering Box Slide on the drawing. My plans do > not show 6-B-7-4 or 6-B-7-5 and they were not provided in my fuse kit. > And by the way I could not fond this new drawing on the Zenith web site. > It came from Caleb. Anyone out there have the same problem or have an > answer? > Darrell > 601 xl fuse > N723DD reserved > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dimensions of CH701 From: "701flyer" <701flyer@gmail.com> I may be a bit ahead of myself but I have been looking into a capable trailer before starting to build. I want to be able to put a 701 into a Weekend Warrior such as this one, wings removed of course. http://www.warriormfg.com/Floorplan/08CR-flpln-lg.gif I hope to have the nose gear go up on a centerline ramp so as to clear the tail thru the 7' cargo entrance. Can anyone provide the tip of spinner to center of nose gear dim? The wife and I want to be snowbirds and have living quarters and trans for the 701 all in one package. There is a county campground in the desert of San Diego County that is open only during winter. There is a county maintained 2500' asphalt runway across the street from it that no one (but me it seems) ever uses. It is L54 and the campground is also named Agua Caliente. Thanks....[/u] -------- Building soon...I hope! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156411#156411 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:37 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project I sell nose wheel strut fairings on eBay and in no way is it illegal. These fairings are not offered by Zenith or anybody else. I too just wanted to help other builders get their project finished easier.. Steve W. ----- Original Message ----- From: skyguynca@skyguynca.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:47 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Look, I am not wanting to argue with you guys. I am breaking no laws!!!!!! I have been building and repairing airplanes for years!!!!! Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraftI have built parts for and not broken any laws. I am not looking to sell parts for a bunch of people. I am just offering to help while I build mine, that is it. You speak of technical support violation, parts violation and such,...........well guys (by the way I have all the DVDs and think the guys are a great help) Homebuilt help is selling technical support and its not Zenith. I am just building and offering to knock out a few extra ribs for people who need them. NOT STEALING ANYTHING!! David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Tremblay To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project David, I agree with Larry comments you can't do that, offers to do pieces for other builders to save them costs or labour time. Zenith are one of the more generous constructors who made fabrication and detail plans, and sell it, to permit to builders to do their pieces themselves. You will be out of law if you doing that kind of services. Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de skyguynca@skyguynca.com Envoy=E9 : Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:57 AM =C0 : zenith-list@matronics.com Objet : Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Ok well I am bitting the bullet and starting a 701 so guys, I will be making wing ribs and horizontal ribs and the like first. So anyone interested in taking a short cut and think you might want to buy some parts instead of making them I will be reasonable on pricing so let me know so I can make ones for you while I make them for myself. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:38 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project I think that a lot of people are missing the point as to why Zenith sells plans. I am not sure and have no way of knowing the number of plans they have sold but I would be willing to bet it is a lot more than the planes that have been built using them. Bottom line is they make money selling them. Just like all aircraft kit manufactures make money selling the tail kit cheap because they know the majority of builders wont finish the rest of the plane and can't afford the whole kit at one time. I think Mark has a bias view and is one of the most outspoken about this. It is my opinion that if I bought the plans I can get my parts where ever I want to. I can pay the welding shop to weld my parts for me or the engine shop to rebuild my engine. If someone out there takes the time to make the forms and buy the dies then why should I have to be forced to do the same thing if another builder will make them for me and save me the time and money. If both builders have a set of plans then Zenith has no bitch. Mark seems to want it both ways you buy the plans but must buy any parts from zenith when it clearly states you can make one part per plan and if two builders get together with two sets of plans then wouldn't that be 2 parts???? Even if one of them makes a little money from it to recoup his tooling costs? Bottom line is both builders only made 1 part. I just ordered another kit Friday so I do support zenith but I also have a set of scratch built plans and I plan to make templates of the parts from the kit so i can build one from scratch also but the parts I can't make I will buy from zenith unless another builder and I can get together and I can make my parts cheaper and I see nothing wrong with that. I think a better way to do this would be to RENT out your forms and dies and let the builder make his parts from them. That way no one has a bitch because Zenith doesn't loan out their forms. Jeff another 601 on the way **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:10 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Dimensions of CH701 Hey, I've stayed at that camp site and never realized there was an airstrip so near. Thanks! I'll add it to my list of future strips to visit. I wonder why the strip is there? -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 701flyer Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dimensions of CH701 I may be a bit ahead of myself but I have been looking into a capable trailer before starting to build. I want to be able to put a 701 into a Weekend Warrior such as this one, wings removed of course. http://www.warriormfg.com/Floorplan/08CR-flpln-lg.gif I hope to have the nose gear go up on a centerline ramp so as to clear the tail thru the 7' cargo entrance. Can anyone provide the tip of spinner to center of nose gear dim? The wife and I want to be snowbirds and have living quarters and trans for the 701 all in one package. There is a county campground in the desert of San Diego County that is open only during winter. There is a county maintained 2500' asphalt runway across the street from it that no one (but me it seems) ever uses. It is L54 and the campground is also named Agua Caliente. Thanks....[/u] -------- Building soon...I hope! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156411#156411 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:31 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update I know. I could see it on the sent message though... I said: perhaps initially use pressurized water. no risk of explosion with water. On the tiny tank. Like someone else pointed out almost no pressure will distort your real tank when it is done. No message for some reason. do not archive [quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156391#156391 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Adding extra rib to rudder From: "ashontz" A couple of drain holes wouldn't be a bad idea either. reinkings(at)comcast.net wrote: > I'm considering fabricating an "end" rib to close the open area at the > bottom of the leading edge of the rudder? Would this create any problems? -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156439#156439 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:47 PM PST US From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Dimensions of CH701 701flyer, I have done some CAD work to see if I could get the 701 into a 24' Ryder truck. There is no problem at all. Plus, there is some room to spare. I have done just what you are wanting to do. I will build a ramp for the nose gear before the tail gets inside, and the way the Ryders are made the nose gear can set down in a saddle for the trip (since the door is lower than the roof) If you want I can try to send you a DXF, DWG, TCW, PRT, etc... formatted file of some crude drawings. Good Luck with building!!!!! Keith ch01builder@yahoo.com N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' Temp. 5F (wanting it to warm up a little to spray parts with Primer-anti-corrosion spray) *************************************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of 701flyer Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 2:18 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dimensions of CH701 I may be a bit ahead of myself but I have been looking into a capable trailer before starting to build. I want to be able to put a 701 into a Weekend Warrior such as this one, wings removed of course. http://www.warriormfg.com/Floorplan/08CR-flpln-lg.gif I hope to have the nose gear go up on a centerline ramp so as to clear the tail thru the 7' cargo entrance. Can anyone provide the tip of spinner to center of nose gear dim? The wife and I want to be snowbirds and have living quarters and trans for the 701 all in one package. There is a county campground in the desert of San Diego County that is open only during winter. There is a county maintained 2500' asphalt runway across the street from it that no one (but me it seems) ever uses. It is L54 and the campground is also named Agua Caliente. Thanks....[/u] -------- Building soon...I hope! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156411#156411 This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:05 PM PST US From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update I good method for a low pressure source is to use a balloon. It keeps a couple of psi on the tank without distorting, then....... you can have your fun with high pressure. I used to use our compressor for tanking dents out of motorcycle gas tanks all the time. (of course the dents we not from my driving and wipeing out) Keith ************************************************************************************************* -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of ashontz Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 9:05 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update When I make the real thing I'll do just that. Thanks. I'm going to make a little tiny tank first and really pump it up (standing way back of course) just out of curiosity. :) Ron Lendon wrote: > Keep the test pressures low, 2-3 psi if ya go much higher it will deform the tank. Use bubble water in a spray bottle to find the leaks. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156320#156320 This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:26 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL A big congrats to you.... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Scott Laughlin wrote: Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the patte rn. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I' d like to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please le t me know. Here is a picture of the magic moment: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG I have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting. More to come! Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Omaha, Nebraska 601XL / Corvair Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real pMTV/?source=text_watchcau ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ============ _____________________________________________________________ Click now to embark on a successful customer service career! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4ufwstlW3gZ570Cyh5g n9h5Q9mf15XNHCwcU4cx9OAEng0zw/ ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:14 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Congratulations Scott. I hope this is just the beginning of a long happy story for you. Dred Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Laughlin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the pattern. 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane. ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:27 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP- with 6-B-7 When I visited the Zenith factory in November there were a couple of QB fuselages waiting to be packed and they both have the features you describe - a sliding plate that moves with the steering rods, housed in a flat box. I have pictures. I'm a little uncomfortable posting pictures from inside the factory without permission, but I can PM if anybody is interested. Funny, I'm a long way from working on the fuse' so I never even realized they weren't on the plans - but I just checked and by golly they aren't there. Glad I have the pict's. Ron On Jan 6, 2008, at 3:19 PM, Bryan Martin wrote: > > > I believe the S-LSA version of the XL built by AMD in Georgia > includes the steering slot covers to seal the steering rod > penetrations through the firewall. This may be one of the > requirements of the consensus standards for S-LSA. That may be what > the 8 1/5 x 11 sheet is showing. The plans for the homebuilt kit > from Zenith did not include these parts and sealing the slots was > left to the discretion of the builder. If you have already cut your > steering slots, don't worry, they will probably work fine. You may > want to find some way of sealing up the slots so that air can't > enter the cabin through them in flight. Check the list archives and > search for "steering slots" or "steering rod" and you will find > several suggestions for sealing the slots, this subject has been > discussed at length on the list in the past. Click on the list > navigator link at the bottom of this message then click on the > archive search engine link. Or go to: http://www.matronics.com/ > search/ There are also photos of some of the solutions in the > photoshare archives. > > Darrell Haas wrote: >> Help! I am working on my fuse-601 firewall. I look at my plans 6- >> B-7 and make the slots for the steering rods R=7 and 130 apart >> left and right and 35 from the bottom. I think I'm pretty much >> done until I find an 8 1/2 x 11 drawing from the previous owner >> dated 08/07. It has the slots R=9 and they start 57 from the >> bottom and they have a 6-B-7-4 slide cover and 6-B7-5 steering Box >> Slide on the drawing. My plans do not show 6-B-7-4 or 6-B-7-5 and >> they were not provided in my fuse kit. And by the way I could not >> fond this new drawing on the Zenith web site. It came from Caleb. >> Anyone out there have the same problem or have an answer? >> Darrell >> 601 xl fuse >> N723DD reserved > -- > Bryan Martin > Zenith 601XL N61BM > Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:54 PM PST US From: "dingfelder" Subject: Zenith-List: re: Fuel Filter I'm using the Ellison, so was concerned about the same issue. I installed an additional paper element filter after both pumps but before the pressure guage port. This should allow me to detect any filter clogging resulting in a pressure drop. Picture included if it gets through. Lynn Corry, PA 601 XL / Corvair ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:12 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project Steve and Dave, You're absolutely right. The plans allow you to build or have someone build one set of parts for the aircraft described by the plans. You can dispose of them as an aircraft or sell them as parts. The problem with selling more than one part or set of parts described by the plans is that the agreement made by the plans buyer forbids making parts repeatedly for sale. That's the crux of the discussion. Should you make one extra part to profit a dollar on it or make 100 parts and profit 100 dollars on it is theft of intellectual property, violation of the contract and becomes an obvious moral issue of mutual trust. Knowing that you never intended to do anything of that sort of thing makes this discussion a moot point. Most people don't set out to commit a fraudulent act on a business and I don't think you did either. It initially just sounded wrong as most of us have heard of this kind of nonsense from people with *real* moral deficits. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com steve wrote: > I sell nose wheel strut fairings on eBay and in no way is it illegal. > These fairings are not offered by Zenith or anybody else. I too just > wanted to help other builders get their project finished easier.. > > Steve W. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* skyguynca@skyguynca.com > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:47 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project > > Look, I am not wanting to argue with you guys. I am breaking no > laws!!!!!! I have been building and repairing airplanes for > years!!!!! Cessna, Piper and Beech aircraftI have built parts for > and not broken any laws. I am not looking to sell parts for a > bunch of people. I am just offering to help while I build mine, > that is it. You speak of technical support violation, parts > violation and such,...........well guys (by the way I have all the > DVDs and think the guys are a great help) Homebuilt help is > selling technical support and its not Zenith. I am just building > and offering to knock out a few extra ribs for people who need > them. NOT STEALING ANYTHING!! > > David Mikesell > 230 Theresa Drive, #6 > Cloverdale, CA 95425 > 209-224-4485 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com > ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:49 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL From: "Jugle" Congratulations Scott. Well done! Glenn[/list] -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- just started. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156454#156454 ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:48 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Fuel Filter Need to ask" Why two fuel pumps ? My QBK # 55 came with only one electric pump.... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: dingfelder To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 5:34 PM Subject: Zenith-List: re: Fuel Filter I'm using the Ellison, so was concerned about the same issue. I installed an additional paper element filter after both pumps but before the pressure guage port. This should allow me to detect any filter clogging resulting in a pressure drop. Picture included if it gets through. Lynn Corry, PA 601 XL / Corvair ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL From: "cookwithgas" Thanks guys. It was an incredible moment. My 13-year-old daughter filmed the video from a chase car, then she edited the video with music and some pictures. Enjoy: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/flight.wmv Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156458#156458 ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:59 PM PST US From: "j. davis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Fuel Filter dingfelder wrote: > I'm using the Ellison, so was concerned about the same issue. I > installed an additional paper element filter after both pumps but before > the pressure guage port. This should allow me to detect any filter > clogging resulting in a pressure drop. Picture included if it gets through. > > Lynn Corry, PA 601 XL / Corvair > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > I'm sorry, but at the risk of flames, why would anyone knowingly design such a fault-intolerant, complex fuel system? -- Regards, J. flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs. building: Sonex #325 (F-CJNJ), Jabiru 3300/6, 98% completed ------------------------------------------------- J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science) *NIX consulting, SysAdmin email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740' ------------------------------------------------- To most people the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home. When I was 17, I wondered why my parents were so stupid. By the time I was 25, it was amazing at how much they had learnt. ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:13 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL Scott- Well, now you're legal for 90 days and can enter some crosswind landings. Gotta wonder what the guy in the Piper was thinking! Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "cookwithgas" Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL > > Thanks guys. It was an incredible moment. My 13-year-old daughter filmed > the video from a chase car, then she edited the video with music and some > pictures. Enjoy: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/flight.wmv > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156458#156458 > > > ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:13 PM PST US From: "Jerry Latimer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL Congrats and super job on the video Jerry HDS 912S -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cookwithgas Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 6:12 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL --> Thanks guys. It was an incredible moment. My 13-year-old daughter filmed the video from a chase car, then she edited the video with music and some pictures. Enjoy: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/flight.wmv Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156458#156458 ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:18 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL Congratulations Scott, Great video, lots of excitement for a few years to come. Nicely done! Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com cookwithgas wrote: > > Thanks guys. It was an incredible moment. My 13-year-old daughter filmed the video from a chase car, then she edited the video with music and some pictures. Enjoy: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/flight.wmv > > > ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:27 PM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project I didn't want to comment about this, but some of you guys really don't seem to understand what a person can or cannot do. You are not choosing your words carefully and forgetting to remember what the purpose of this list is. David is not trying to start a business by undercutting Zenith, he was just offering to help out by making a few extra parts while he was making his. David has been a valued contributing member of this list for quite a time. It this an attempt to run him off? Some of you seem to be determined to do so. He is perfectly in his rights to make these parts as much as some one is to make an after market fender for a Chevrolet. And, if you don't want any of his parts then it's really not any of your business. If Zenith thinks he is somehow infringing on their rights, it's up to them to say something, not us. I believe the airfoil Zenith uses is in the public domain and the design specs are available. Zenith does not have a patent on it or exclusive rights to manufacturer ribs or any other parts. As far as I know there is nothing on the 701 that is exclusively a Zenith design or invention. It is a compilation of many proven aircraft parts that were assembled into a what we know as a 701 It is actually a look alike of a Fieseler Storch (38-61) and several other similar older aircraft. Making look a likes of other aircraft is a practice that will continue long after we are gone. We need to leave David alone and move on. LRM www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting my 701 project I think that a lot of people are missing the point as to why Zenith sells plans. I am not sure and have no way of knowing the number of plans they have sold but I would be willing to bet it is a lot more than the planes that have been built using them. Bottom line is they make money selling them. Just like all aircraft kit manufactures make money selling the tail kit cheap because they know the majority of builders wont finish the rest of the plane and can't afford the whole kit at one time. I think Mark has a bias view and is one of the most outspoken about this. It is my opinion that if I bought the plans I can get my parts where ever I want to. I can pay the welding shop to weld my parts for me or the engine shop to rebuild my engine. If someone out there takes the time to make the forms and buy the dies then why should I have to be forced to do the same thing if another builder will make them for me and save me the time and money. If both builders have a set of plans then Zenith has no bitch. Mark seems to want it both ways you buy the plans but must buy any parts from zenith when it clearly states you can make one part per plan and if two builders get together with two sets of plans then wouldn't that be 2 parts???? Even if one of them makes a little money from it to recoup his tooling costs? Bottom line is both builders only made 1 part. I just ordered another kit Friday so I do support zenith but I also have a set of scratch built plans and I plan to make templates of the parts from the kit so i can build one from scratch also but the parts I can't make I will buy from zenith unless another builder and I can get together and I can make my parts cheaper and I see nothing wrong with that. I think a better way to do this would be to RENT out your forms and dies and let the builder make his parts from them. That way no one has a bitch because Zenith doesn't loan out their forms. Jeff another 601 on the way ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 1/6/2008 11:57 AM ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: sealing fuel fittings From: "Ron Lendon" That's the stuff my EAA Tech Counselor told me to use. Another source, a AP/AI confirmed it at the EAA chapter meeting. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156474#156474 ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:10 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL !!! That was the best download I have done in a very long time!!! Thanks guys. It was an incredible moment. My 13-year-old daughter filmed the video from a chase car, then she edited the video with music and some pictures. Enjoy: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/flight.wmv Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156458#156458 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:02 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: RE: Zenith-List: HELP- with 6-B-7 ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:44 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - N5SL From: "Ron Lendon" Congratulations Scott! You have given may of us much enjoyment and education watching you pursue this accomplishment. Your daughter is gifted also and made a very enjoyable video of your first flight. As far as being the first scratch builder, I think that one goes to Chris Heintz. You might be the first plans built customer though. Well done my friend. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156483#156483 ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:52 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: RE: Zenith-List: HELP- with 6-B-7 ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:22 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HELP- with 6-B-7 Apparently attached photos don't work on the list, although I'd swear I've seen them before. Anyway, I uploaded then to the Matronics server. I haven't got a bounced email back so hopefully they will be available soon. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.