Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:36 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 04:41 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Larry H)
3. 04:51 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Terry Turnquist)
4. 05:55 AM - Re: Online built (Tommy Walker)
5. 06:01 AM - Re: sealing fuel fittings (Geoff Heap)
6. 06:18 AM - Re: sealing fuel fittings (dgardea(at)gmail.com)
7. 06:32 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (dgardea(at)gmail.com)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (aprazer)
9. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: First Flight - N5SL (Debo Cox)
10. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Filter (Phil Maxson)
11. 09:53 AM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (T. Graziano)
12. 10:12 AM - 601 XL, Front floor skin-Riveting (AZFlyer)
13. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: First Flight - N5SL ()
14. 10:35 AM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Larry H)
15. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: sealing fuel fittings (Bryan Martin)
16. 12:51 PM - Re: sealing fuel fittings (billmileski)
17. 12:55 PM - Re: sealing fuel fittings (billmileski)
18. 01:04 PM - Poor Brakes on 701 with CZECH Amphibs (1150A with 4 wheels) (Avidmagnum)
19. 01:11 PM - Re: 601 XL, Front floor skin-Riveting (chris Sinfield)
20. 01:37 PM - Re: Online built (countzero)
21. 01:40 PM - Re: Fuel Filter (Gig Giacona)
22. 02:14 PM - CH701 Fatal Crash (Jim Fosse)
23. 02:25 PM - Re: 601 XL, Front floor skin-Riveting (Beckman, Rick)
24. 02:36 PM - Re: CH701 Fatal Crash (ashontz)
25. 02:50 PM - Re: Starting my 701 project (THOMAS SMALL)
26. 02:57 PM - Re: First Flight - N5SL (Scott Thatcher)
27. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: First Flight - N5SL (Larry H)
28. 03:30 PM - Fuel System Sealant (robert stone)
29. 04:27 PM - Re: Adding extra rib to rudder (THOMAS SMALL)
30. 04:47 PM - monday chat (leinad)
31. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: Online built (Curt Thompson)
32. 04:50 PM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Tommy Walker)
33. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: Online built (Craig Payne)
34. 04:56 PM - Re: 601 XL, Front floor skin-Riveting ()
35. 05:19 PM - N701N Completed and Flying (Jeffrey A Beachy)
36. 05:47 PM - Re: Adding extra rib to rudder (PatrickW)
37. 05:56 PM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (PatrickW)
38. 06:39 PM - Re: Adding extra rib to rudder (Dave Austin)
39. 06:49 PM - Re: HELP- with 6-B-7 (Ron Lendon)
40. 07:10 PM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (NYTerminat@aol.com)
41. 07:11 PM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (rroberts)
42. 07:21 PM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (bob)
43. 07:24 PM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (Ashcraft, Keith -AES)
44. 07:26 PM - Plans for 701 Slat Jig (David Cleary)
45. 07:43 PM - Monday Chat Room (George Race)
46. 07:46 PM - Radio & Transponder Sale (Pete Krotje)
47. 08:14 PM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (LRM)
48. 08:19 PM - Re: xxx N701N Completed and Flying (John Bolding)
49. 08:21 PM - Re: Adding extra rib to rudder (Paul Mulwitz)
50. 08:26 PM - Re: Monday Chat Room (Edward Moody II)
51. 08:43 PM - Re: Monday Chat Room (Ron Zeppin)
52. 08:51 PM - Re: Starting my 701 project (Larry H)
53. 09:25 PM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (Edward Moody II)
54. 09:40 PM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (SABorns@aol.com)
55. 09:43 PM - steering boots (Darrell Haas)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Starting my 701 project |
Hi Mark,
Yes, I still feel it is fine for anybody to make any parts they want
and sell them if they can.
The way I read the quoted verbiage is that the buyer agrees not to
reproduce and sell the drawings. I don't see anything that says
anything about selling airplane parts. The "them" in the quote
refers to the previous list of items including: "Drawings, Manuals
and parts (of the manuals and drawings).
It wouldn't make any sense at all to prohibit the buyer from
reproducing, or communicating metal parts. I know I had to reproduce
many parts that I screwed up on my first attempt to assemble them
into my plane. I don't have any clue how I might communicate a metal
part. It seems obvious to me that all of this refers to the drawings
and other printed material.
I agree that reproducing the printed material, which is clearly
copyrighted, would be an ethical and legal breach. It is not because
of the contract, but because the material is copyrighted. When
anyone produces written material and includes the magic word
"Copyright" that makes it a moral problem for anyone else to
reproduce and sell the material without permission. That right
doesn't extend to the design of the airplane parts which is
documented in the drawings. That would require a patent and Zenith
clearly can't possibly have such a patent since they didn't invent
any of the stuff in the drawings. As mentioned by someone the last
time this whole can of worms came up, they could have a "Design
Patent" on the whole airplane design. If they did (which I seriously
doubt) then they could get a court to support the patent if someone
were to build and sell whole airplanes without license from the
patent holder. In practice this wouldn't work, because they keep
changing details in the design and each little change makes a whole
new design to protect.
I feel the whole contract is a bunch of nonsense. It is an attempt
by Zenith to prevent law suits being filed against them for any
implied product liability relating to their products. Since I have
no intention of suing them for such liability, I am not particularly
concerned with the contents of the contract. The only ethical breach
of contract (as opposed to a legal portion of the contract that could
be enforced in a court of law) I can imagine is if I, or some other
Zenith customer, decided to build several airplanes from a single set
of plans. That is distinctly different from building as many
component parts as I choose to build either for inclusion in my one
authorized plane or for sale to anybody who wants to buy them.
With regard to all the comments made by you and others that some of
us have committed some sort of sin, I think that is utter
nonsense. It is not up to you or any other list members to attempt
to enforce the Zenith builder's contract. It is up to Zenith to do
any enforcement they think they can get away with. I feel that no
crimes have been committed, and by telling someone they are
committing a crime in a public forum when they have not done so you
are indeed committing a offense. It is called slander and/or libel.
Indeed, I don't think Zenith would or could enforce any of the
builder's contract. It would not be practical, economical, or even
reasonable for them to do so. It would also be a terrible business
practice to take their customers to court over a breach of
contract. Once the word got out that being a Zenith customer puts
you at risk for being sued it would be difficult to convince anyone
to be such a customer.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:58 AM 1/6/2008, you wrote:
>
>
>This contract permits the buyer to build one airplane or part of it
>in the Custom-Built, Experimental, Ultralight, etc. category. The
>type of aircraft and the Drawings serial number must be visibly
>
>marked on the vertical tail or fuselage sides of the aircraft. The
>buyer is advised that the Drawings, Manuals, and/or parts contain
>proprietary rights. The buyer covenants and agrees that he will not:
>
>a) Reproduce, b) Communicate, c) Transfer, sell, exchange or modify
>them or any part of them, d) Permit any other person to use said
>drawings, manual, and/or parts, without the written permission of the Company.
>
>
>I am old fashioned and truly believe that a mans handshake and
>signature is his ethical bond. IF I sign a document that says I
>cannot use a persons design to sell his parts without expressed
>permission then maybe I shouldn't, legal or not, I have signed my
>name to it. So after reading the line from the contract Paul, do
>you still feel it is right to make a part from the plans and sell it
>in any way? I am at a loss, I cannot force my views upon you or
>anyone and all my ramblings here on this subject are just that they
>are my opinion, but god I hope more people out there share my view then yours.
>
>
>Mark
Message 2
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| Subject: | Starting my 701 project |
If you REALLY WANT TO KNOW - CALL ZENITH AIRCRAFT COMPANY! I'm POSITIVE they will
tell you the truth. Just don't be shocked if they tell you you CAN'T do it.
Put this discussion to rest finally and lets get on with something different
please.
---------------------------------
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Starting my 701 project |
Gentleman, there are grim statistics concerning the percentage of scratch builders
of any airplane actually completing and flying their creation. I don't think
Zenith or any company selling kits needs to worry about a builder on steroids
producing enough parts to put them out of business. Relax, take a deep breath,
and try to figure out how you're going to break the news to MAMA
that the engine you need to power your creation is going to cost about as much
as you paid for your house!
Terry Turnquist
601XL-Parts
St Peters, MO
Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote: Hi Mark,
Yes, I still feel it is fine for anybody to make any parts they want and sell
them if they can.
The way I read the quoted verbiage is that the buyer agrees not to reproduce and
sell the drawings. I don't see anything that says anything about selling airplane
parts. The "them" in the quote refers to the previous list of items including:
"Drawings, Manuals and parts (of the manuals and drawings).
It wouldn't make any sense at all to prohibit the buyer from reproducing, or communicating
metal parts. I know I had to reproduce many parts that I screwed
up on my first attempt to assemble them into my plane. I don't have any clue
how I might communicate a metal part. It seems obvious to me that all of this
refers to the drawings and other printed material.
I agree that reproducing the printed material, which is clearly copyrighted, would
be an ethical and legal breach. It is not because of the contract, but because
the material is copyrighted. When anyone produces written material and
includes the magic word "Copyright" that makes it a moral problem for anyone
else to reproduce and sell the material without permission. That right doesn't
extend to the design of the airplane parts which is documented in the drawings.
That would require a patent and Zenith clearly can't possibly have such a
patent since they didn't invent any of the stuff in the drawings. As mentioned
by someone the last time this whole can of worms came up, they could have a
"Design Patent" on the whole airplane design. If they did (which I
---------------------------------
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Online built |
Pavel569,
I had a web cam hooked up in my garage while I was building my plane. I had
quite a few lookers but very few interruptions. One interesting lurker
IM'ed me and asked me to stand in front of the camera so she/he could see
me. Asked me to take off my hat and smile at the camera. Turns out it was
an old girl friend. She invited me to come down to Orlando for a week at
her expense.
Anyway, I digress..
I think my non-flying friends looked more than anyone.
One person suggested I could start a pay-per-view site and call it the
"Naked Builder." For those who've seen me you know how long that site would
have remained alive. I would have certainly had to buy more bandaids.. LOL
Do Not Archive
Tommy
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: sealing fuel fittings |
Will this stuff work as well. I gulped when i saw the price of $66.14 from MSC.
The stuff below is from Wicks
PIPE THREAD SEALANT FUEL RE
Pipe thread sealant with Teflon made by Loctite. O.E.M. specified as 592. Prevents
leakage from vibration, temperature cycling and extreme pressures. Protects
against rust, corrosion, and galling of threads. Allows respositioning of parts
after application.
SKU: PST
Our Price: $5.26
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156520#156520
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: sealing fuel fittings |
I also used EZ Turn (fuel lube) on my fuel tank finger screen fitting threads and
on the fuel filler threads. It did a great job of sealing the fuel sender on
each tank.
Regards,
Dave
Wings done .. waiting on fuselage kit
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
working on wings
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156525#156525
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - N5SL |
Congratulations, Scott! Very neat that your daughter has been involved in your
project right up to your maiden flight. Your accomplishment and her video is a
real motivation to the rest of us builders who have a ways to go. Please keep
us posted on performance figures with the WW Corvair!
Regards,
Dave Gardea
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
working on wings
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156528#156528
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - N5SL |
Scott,
Congrats on a job well done! I'm sure that you'll go down in the history books
as flying the first "plans built" 601XL.
Enjoyed seeing the white stuff in the background -- that is something we are short
of as we are in our seventh year of drought!
Thanks for sharing,
Mack
601XL/3300
N990MK
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156535#156535
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - N5SL |
Wow Scott. You've given every scratchbuilder (and everyone else for that matter)
a great reason to keep returning to the garage every day or two. It couldn't
happen to a nicer, more generous guy. My deepest congratulations.
I wanted to echo too what Dave has said here. It's been really wonderful for
someone like me with no kids to see how involved your daughter has been in your
project. Looks like she may have even found a passion of her own for aviation
through you - after videography of course!
Keep the pointy end forward...
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
Scratchbuilding XL/Corvair
Second wing 80% done
www.mykitlog.com/debo
"dgardea(at)gmail.com" <dgardea@gmail.com> wrote:
Congratulations, Scott! Very neat that your daughter has been involved in your
project right up to your maiden flight. Your accomplishment and her video is a
real motivation to the rest of us builders who have a ways to go. Please keep
us posted on performance figures with the WW Corvair!
Regards,
Dave Gardea
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
working on wings
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Message 10
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On the advice of William Wynne and others, I removed my fuel filter. As ot
hers have pointed out, the gascolator acts as a fuel filter and a water sep
arator. I've been flying the ellison EFS-3A for about 150 hours now.Phil M
axson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
From: ding@tbscc.comTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List: re:
Fuel FilterDate: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:34:28 -0500
I'm using the Ellison, so was concerned about the same issue. I installed a
n additional paper element filter after both pumps but before the pressure
guage port. This should allow me to detect any filter clogging resulting in
a pressure drop. Picture included if it gets through.
Lynn Corry, PA 601 XL / Corvair
_________________________________________________________________
Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TA
GLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - N5SL |
Congratulations, Scott!
Taking something you built into the sky for the first time is unforgettable!
Have fun on your Phase I testing.
Tony Graziano; 601/Jab; N493TG
Do not archive.
--------------------
> Time: 07:46:59 AM PST US
> From: Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL
>
> Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the
> pattern.
> 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane.
>
> Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd
> l
> ike to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me
> k
> now.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | 601 XL, Front floor skin-Riveting |
List,
Am getting close to riveting the front floor skin with all it's various stiffeners
and attachments, so my question is: Do I turn the fuselage over to do the
riveting or work on my back underneath the fuse?
What have others done? Seems to me that turning it over is the easy way.
Thanks,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - N5SL |
"Laughlin the polished X L..... Had a very shiny plane....
And if you ever saw it..... you would surely go insane."
(sung to the tune of "Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer")
Sorry, it just came to me after the "you'll go down in history.." comment. I'll
go take my medicine now.
Dred
Do Not Archive
---- aprazer <aprazer@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> Scott,
> Congrats on a job well done! I'm sure that you'll go down in the history books
as flying the first "plans built" 601XL.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Starting my 701 project |
Not quite so fast about the statement regarding the cost of an engine "costing
more than your house". You can build a 100 HP, 6 six cylinder, corvair conversion
for less than $4000. Check this website out and find out for yourself:
www.flycorvair.com
If you aren't that mechanically inclined, call them and ask what the price is
for one already built up and ready to go. I'm positive it will be about half
what you would pay for a Rotax, Jabiru or a Continental.
I
---------------------------------
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: sealing fuel fittings |
That will probably work but it does harden when it cures. If you have to
reposition the fitting after it sets, you will have to disassemble
reapply the compound. See:
http://www.barnhillbolt.com/specs/loctite592tds.pdf
Wicks also sells EZ Turn thread sealer for about the same price per
ounce: http://tinyurl.com/2d9d7n EZ Turn doesn't harden. Aircraft Spruce
also sells it for a bit less along with a couple of other brands:
http://tinyurl.com/24yzph
Permatex makes a product with similar properties to the Loctite product,
Thread Sealant with PTFE. If you want to save on shipping, the Permatex
and Loctite product are usually available at your local auto parts stores.
Geoff Heap wrote:
>
> Will this stuff work as well. I gulped when i saw the price of $66.14 from MSC.
The stuff below is from Wicks
>
>
> PIPE THREAD SEALANT FUEL RE
> Pipe thread sealant with Teflon made by Loctite. O.E.M. specified as 592. Prevents
leakage from vibration, temperature cycling and extreme pressures. Protects
against rust, corrosion, and galling of threads. Allows respositioning of
parts after application.
>
> SKU: PST
> Our Price: $5.26
> do not archive
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: sealing fuel fittings |
I have used "Sealube" from Spruce, extensively, and it seems to work very well.
Was recommended by Zenith at the time I purchased my kit. Not cheap, but at
$27 is a large can I'll never use a third of and cheaper than the Fuel Lube prices
mentioned.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/sealube.php
Bill Mileski
Ledyard, CT
701 912S
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| Subject: | Re: sealing fuel fittings |
Hmmm. Actually, looks like EZ Turn is about six bucks CHEAPER than the Sealube
I recommended.. I'd probably go with the EZ Turn :-)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php
Bill
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| Subject: | Poor Brakes on 701 with CZECH Amphibs (1150A with 4 wheels) |
Wow..I just did not know how bad the braking design was on my CH701 till I put
it on the Amphibious Floats. I blamed it on poor brake in, grease, oil...whatever.
Could not lock up the brakes for run up. I then added a second Amphibian
(same floats CZECH 1150A)on a RANS S7 in Florida. Broke in the brakes the same
way I did on the 701 and what a shock! Great brakes! Turn on a dime! (The
only major difference was the pedal design.)
Hummm. Back to Wisconsin for Christmas and time to do a look over of my 701. Did
a search on this site and saw that other were having problems. I made modifications
that were on the 601 site on this link.
http://www.ch601.org/resources/brake_mod/brake_mod.htm What a difference! The Matco brakes call for about 450 lbs of pressure and I could not get near that with the stock pedal design. If you fly with the nose wheel not as big a deal. But with out the steering nose wheel good brakes are a MUST if you want to turn!
Tom Schulke
701SP Rotax 912ULS, Warp drive prop, NO SLATS!, Czech 1150 amphibs. 236 hours,
GREAT BRAKES! Everything is beautiful!!!
Anyway.... thanks for all that post great ideas on this site!
Let's keep Life Positive...........
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL, Front floor skin-Riveting |
I did mine as a section upside down then turned it over and joined it up to the
gear channel once it was done and just did those last ones on my back
Chris
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| Subject: | Re: Online built |
Hi Pavel569
I screwed webcam to a shelf in the corner of my garage. I could not find a usb
cable long enough to plug it into my computer so I set it up to take a picture
every six seconds and store to a memory card.
I upload the pictures to u-tube where you can watch an entire days work in about three minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDOZXJ_Ql4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcd1rE9GkZk so far.
If could find a way to plug the camera into the computer (about 20m away) I might
think about setting up as a webcam, could be very useful when I stuck.. or
mess up.. again..
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156586#156586
Message 21
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OK, where do you think the fault intolerance is in the system?
jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca wrote:
> dingfelder wrote:
> I'm sorry, but at the risk of flames, why would anyone knowingly design
> such a fault-intolerant, complex fuel system?
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156587#156587
Message 22
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| Subject: | CH701 Fatal Crash |
This is from AV Web Flash publication on 1-6-08.
Jim Fosse N329F
FATAL FLIGHT, LAS CRUCES
Robert Steinmetz, who was identified in the FAA's preliminary report
as a "sport pilot," crashed his "Garniss STOL 701" high-wing (experimental
aircraft are often registered by builder name followed by aircraft model)
into a field near his home on the outskirts of Las Cruces, N.M., Dec. 5,
killing himself and leaving family members as witnesses. Steinmetz had
purchased the aircraft just two months prior to the accident. AVweb was
unable to find a record of Steinmetz in the FAA's online airmen
certification database and the aircraft's registration status as of Friday
was also unavailable. According to the report, Steinmetz's daughters told
the inspector that every time he flew, he would "buzz" his house and "wig
wag" his wings. On this particular flight, he was wagging his wings when the
left wing struck the ground and the airplane cartwheeled. Visual
meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. No flight
plan was filed.
Message 23
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| Subject: | 601 XL, Front floor skin-Riveting |
Am getting close to riveting the front floor skin with all it's various
stiffeners and attachments, so my question is: Do I turn the fuselage
over to do the riveting or work on my back underneath the fuse?
Hey, Mike! It's just like a big aluminum canoe at this point,
so turn it over! Get a little help so as not to bend anything. Makes
life soooo much easier.
Happy Building!!
Rick from the Eastern Jackson County
Swamps!!
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Fatal Crash |
Where's Ralph Nader when you need him? This airplane should have never been allowed
to wig wag it's wings or have been capable of being flown anywhere near the
ground without a plethora of autopilots that would have immediately corrected
the situation and automatically landed the plane safely at the nearest airport.
It also should have been constructed as one giant safety airbag that would
have deployed 5 seconds before any inticipated crash and lovingly deposited
th pilot and any passengers back in a hermetically sealed womb-like structure.
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156600#156600
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my 701 project |
do not archive
Larry,
Good work, keep it up! We need more listers to get a bit up in arms
about the waste of verbiage on this forum. Some equate the First
Amendment as their right to spout off on anything when it is really a
bit out of the Jerry Springer "I'll showcase any idiot" garbage bin.
This issue IS long dead, a dead horse, even a dead parrot - maybe we
could zap it with a laser! They won't call ZAC because then they would
have the facts, and while they are welcome to their opinions, they don't
want said opinions to be placed against facts. Many of the problems
faced on this medium come from the e-mail format where communication
takes place without benefit of intonenation, inflection, and immediate
scrutiny of statement. Mark sohuld not have to waste his time when this
issue rolls over in its grave every three months.
Don't forget that your e-mail program usually has a block caller
feature that allows your to screen some of this nonsense that comes from
two or three listers.
Keep up the fight, maybe we could all benefit from reading the list
guidelines - something many of these folks have never done.
If you REALLY WANT TO KNOW - CALL ZENITH AIRCRAFT COMPANY! I'm
POSITIVE they will tell you the truth. Just don't be shocked if they
tell you you CAN'T do it. Put this discussion to rest finally and lets
get on with something different please.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - N5SL |
Hi Scott,
Congratulations! There's a bunch of us out here that owe part of our
building skills to you and your website... including some unique parts such
as the AOA probe that you expertly fabricated! I hope you keep your web
site up and running for future generations of builders because it is so
incredibly complete. By the way, how did the AOA work? Did it follow the
design of the gauge fairly close? Or were you more interested in other
things at the time?
I got mine inspected about two weeks ago and hope to get it in the air this
month... but mine was a kit and it still took almost four years and a lot of
help from others.
Keep us posted. Thanks for everything.
Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
601XL with Corvair, Still 99% complete but Registered as E-LSA
N601EL
> Time: 07:46:59 AM PST US
> From: Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight - N5SL
>
> Yesterday, January 5, 2008, N5SL made it's first flight around the
> pattern.
> 4-years, 11-months and 5-days since I started work on the airplane.
>
> Does anybody know of a Plans-built 601XL that has flown in the U.S.? I'd
> l
> ike to claim to be the first so if anybody knows of another please let me
> k
> now.
>
> Here is a picture of the magic moment:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_5_08_Flight1.JPG
>
> I have a shaky video but need to get it off the camera before posting.
> Mor
> e to come!
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
> Omaha, Nebraska
> 601XL / Corvair
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - N5SL |
Boooooo!!!! Hisssssssssss! Hey Dred, don't give up your day job!
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Fuel System Sealant |
Thanks to all who responded to my question about sealing fuel
system connectors. I am going to use a product called SEAL All Gas &
Oil resistant. This is what mechanics use in the aviation
maintenance department of Central Texas College.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Adding extra rib to rudder |
> I'm considering fabricating an "end" rib to close the open area at the
> bottom of the leading edge of the rudder? Would this create any
> problems?
John,
It should not cause any problems but take the advice to wait until final
fitting of saddle piece over stab.
You can make a rib out of .016 aluminum or take a look at this method and
see what you think - it's only one other way to tackle the problem. Works
for me but everyone has their preferences:
Even builders of metal a/c need to cultivate a skill with working in
fiberglass.
Take a piece of builders foam (often scraps are thrown away at new home
sites); usually this stuff is blue, green or pink, and is available in
various thicknesses from 1/2 inch up to 3 inches. You need a piece of one
inch for this.
Press foam against rudder spar and then into the open bottom end of leading
edge - this will leave an impression of the opening.
Cut out this piece on the bandsaw and sand (the stuff sands easily) until it
is a somewhat loose fit into the area to be filled. If you ended up putting
a gentle curve into the bottom of the leading edge to fit the saddle it
won't matter as you can easily sand the side profile to match.
Cover the top surface of the piece (draping some cloth over the sides) with
a layer of 5 to 8 ounce fiberglass. One layer will do for this piece. Use
finishing resin which you can get in larger qualities from ACS or go to
local hobby store (Tower Hobbies for mail or on-line orders) and see what
they have. It's normally one-to-one in ratio from the hobby store venue.
Apply with the cheap acid brushes you get at hardware store for $.49 so they
can be tossed - though acetone will clean 'em if you want to reuse.
Allow resin to set and scuff a bit with 50 to 80 grit paper, then apply
another coat of finishing resin.
This should be sufficient thickness to allow sanding to a smooth surface; if
not, apply more resin. Start with 80 grit and move to 220.
Sand edges carefully checking often for fit into the rudder opening.
Attach into opening with RTV (the RV crowd uses this all the time). Mine
has held through 310+ hours.
The "rudder plug" is shown installed in one attachment and sitting atop the
stab tips in the other (providing the attachments come through).
The stabilizer tips are another easy fiberglass project that clean up an
area in the tail surfaces. I did not care for the look of a row of rivets
running to the aft end of the tips and the creases formed by the rib running
the rear length.
Take the same process as above: trace around the aft of the stab tip, cut a
piece of builders foam, epoxy in place, sand with a big block, cover ONLY
the foam being careful to keep the piece of cloth just large enough to
extend past the edge. When the resin is almost cured you can take a
single-edge razor blade and trim the fiberglass "whiskers" off. The reason
for this is to minimize the amount of sanding needed on the gel coat of the
tips.
The ribs that would have been used can now go into the elevator where the
rudder cutout is (mine is an HDS; the XL kits may come with extra ribs for
this purpose?).
In the second attachment the tips are shown, the plug for rudder is atop,
and the cutout ribs are the ones with rivet holes. The primer is Randolph's
two-part epoxy, Epibond.
Presently I'm working on new wheel pants for the S83 Michelin smaller
diameter tires using much the same techniques as above with one and two inch
foam in contrasting colors to aid in symmetrical contouring.
If anyone is interested a tutorial of making a fiberglass fairing for atop
the rudder utilizing the position light in that location, it can be
forwarded to you. Please contact off-list at tjs22t(at)verizon.net.
cheers jeff HDS/3300
Message 30
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http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
8:00 PM EST
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156620#156620
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Online built |
Rob,
Nice video. I was thinking about doing a similar setup to record my build
progress. What is the camera and software setup that you use?
Curt
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my 701 project |
HEY!
DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!
SIGNED
DOG
THOU SHALT NOT ARCHIVE
LOL Sorry, couldn't resist
do not archive
--------
Tommy Walker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156621#156621
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Online built |
Talk about a quick-build!
> If could find a way to plug the camera into the computer (about 20m away)
I might think about setting up as a webcam
You could use a wireless USB:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=377793
But it would be cheaper to just buy a WiFi or Ethernet webcam:
http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=218&subcategory=601&pro
duct=14276
http://www.axis.com/products/cam_206/index.htm
-- Craig
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL, Front floor skin-Riveting |
You should have the whole mess up on some sort of supports (saw horses?) jigged
and shimmed to the prescribed level or angles before you start pulling rivets.
That way you don't incorporate any twist or improper relationships of parts.
I found that working on a creepr on my back works well under the plane. They
aren't terribly expensive and you will use it as long as you have a plane to work
on.
Dred
---- AZFlyer <millrML@AOL.com> wrote:
>
> List,
>
> Am getting close to riveting the front floor skin with all it's various stiffeners
and attachments, so my question is: Do I turn the fuselage over to do the
riveting or work on my back underneath the fuse?
>
> What have others done? Seems to me that turning it over is the easy way.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> --------
> Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
> 601 XL, 3300, Dynon
>
> Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156556#156556
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | N701N Completed and Flying |
My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December 17,
2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day. I built N701N from a
Zenith complete airframe kit and a Skyshops firewall-forward kit. Engine
is a Rotax 912ULS with Woodcomp propeller; instruments are steam gauges
with a Microair Comm and Transponder. I logged 2,560 hours of building
over thirty-three months, including painting. This was my first airplane
project and I enjoyed the entire experience. The Zenith Matronics List
was a great help in building my airplane. Special thanks to Larry Martin,
Brian Unruh, Tommy Walker, Dirk Slabbert, Jerry Erickson, John Flavin and
others on this list who were willing to share their experiences and
recommendations. Now, if the never-ceasing winds around here will finally
die down, I'll be happy to get back to flying!
Jeff Beachy
Plain City, Ohio
N701N
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Adding extra rib to rudder |
Just make sure it's attached well so it doesn't come partially out and interfere
with rudder travel.
Patrick
XL/Covair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156629#156629
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Nice job. That's really a great looking airplane.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156632#156632
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| Subject: | Re: Adding extra rib to rudder |
Just my thoughts on this.. Why add extra weight when not needed? I cut off
the corners of every "L" piece to keep weight down. Rounded ends of
longerons and u/c slides etc.. I'm not smart enough to do the math to
decide if the drag reduction is more valuable than the extra weight.
Anybody out there..?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: HELP- with 6-B-7 |
Post pictures to your message using the web interface:
http://forums.matronics.com
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156652#156652
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Jeff,
Looks great, congratulations and best of luck. Take your time and enjoy your
phase 1 fly off.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH701/912S/ 140hrs
In a message dated 1/7/2008 8:21:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
beachyjeff@juno.com writes:
My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December 17,
2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day.
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
She's a real beauty Jeff! ! Congrats! ! Make sure you get some 701 dual before
you take her up. Well done !
--------
Low & Slow
Rick
www.n701rr.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156661#156661
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Congratulations on the first flight Jeff,
Your plane looks great. I see that you are not very far from me, I'm
near Dayton. I finished my 701 this summer and I'd like to get together
sometime and swap building and flying info, I now have about 44 hours on
mine. Please send me an email ( kissellr@ameritech.net ) I'm hangared at
New Carlisle, Ohio.
Bob Kissell
Beavercreek,Ohio
N701UB
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey A Beachy
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 4:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: N701N Completed and Flying
My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December
17, 2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day. I built N701N
from a Zenith complete airframe kit and a Skyshops firewall-forward kit.
Engine is a Rotax 912ULS with Woodcomp propeller; instruments are steam
gauges with a Microair Comm and Transponder. I logged 2,560 hours of
building over thirty-three months, including painting. This was my first
airplane project and I enjoyed the entire experience. The Zenith
Matronics List was a great help in building my airplane. Special thanks
to Larry Martin, Brian Unruh, Tommy Walker, Dirk Slabbert, Jerry
Erickson, John Flavin and others on this list who were willing to share
their experiences and recommendations. Now, if the never-ceasing winds
around here will finally die down, I'll be happy to get back to flying!
Jeff Beachy
Plain City, Ohio
N701N
Message 43
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| Subject: | N701N Completed and Flying |
Congratulations, Let us know how the Phase I works out.
Keith
CH701 -- scratch
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
***************************************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jeffrey A Beachy
Sent: Mon 1/7/2008 2:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: N701N Completed and Flying
My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December 17,
2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day. I built N701N from a
Zenith complete airframe kit and a Skyshops firewall-forward kit. Engine
is a Rotax 912ULS with Woodcomp propeller; instruments are steam gauges
with a Microair Comm and Transponder. I logged 2,560 hours of building
over thirty-three months, including painting. This was my first airplane
project and I enjoyed the entire experience. The Zenith Matronics List
was a great help in building my airplane. Special thanks to Larry Martin,
Brian Unruh, Tommy Walker, Dirk Slabbert, Jerry Erickson, John Flavin and
others on this list who were willing to share their experiences and
recommendations. Now, if the never-ceasing winds around here will finally
die down, I'll be happy to get back to flying!
Jeff Beachy
Plain City, Ohio
N701N
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note
that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient
should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT
accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
e-mail.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Plans for 701 Slat Jig |
Does anyone know if there is a set of plans for the Slat Jig for the
701? I don't see it on the Zenith site or the CH701 site.
I know the slat profile is on 7-F-13 and I could swag the jig from the
photo in the Assembly Guide. But I'm much better at following
directions than swag'ing.
David Cleary
Bloomington, MN
CH701 from Component Kits
Rudder & Flapperons completed
David.cleary@calix.com
Message 45
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| Subject: | Monday Chat Room |
Tonight is chat night again for those who may be interested and available.
8:00 EST at: http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat
See you there,
George
CH-701 N73EX (reserved)
Message 46
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| Subject: | Radio & Transponder Sale |
Jabiru USA has several new Becker 4201 radios in stock for immediate sale at
$950.00. Compare to Gulf Coast Avionics at $1270.00. Becker ATC 4401-175
Transponders for sale at $1500.00. Compare at $1899.00. Several available.
First with the cash gets them.
Call 931-680-2800 or email frontdesk@usjabiru.com
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Fine Job my friend. Now this is what the list is for. LRM
www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey A Beachy
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: N701N Completed and Flying
My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December
17, 2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day. I built N701N
from a Zenith complete airframe kit and a Skyshops firewall-forward kit.
Engine is a Rotax 912ULS with Woodcomp propeller; instruments are steam
gauges with a Microair Comm and Transponder. I logged 2,560 hours of
building over thirty-three months, including painting. This was my first
airplane project and I enjoyed the entire experience. The Zenith
Matronics List was a great help in building my airplane. Special thanks
to Larry Martin, Brian Unruh, Tommy Walker, Dirk Slabbert, Jerry
Erickson, John Flavin and others on this list who were willing to share
their experiences and recommendations. Now, if the never-ceasing winds
around here will finally die down, I'll be happy to get back to flying!
Jeff Beachy
Plain City, Ohio
N701N
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/7/2008 9:14 AM
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Jeff, please share your all up weight. Thanks John do
not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey A Beachy
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:45 PM
Subject: xxx Zenith-List: N701N Completed and Flying
My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December
17, 2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day. I built N701N
from a Zenith complete airframe kit and a Skyshops firewall-forward kit.
Engine is a Rotax 912ULS with Woodcomp propeller; instruments are steam
gauges with a Microair Comm and Transponder.
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Adding extra rib to rudder |
Hi Dave,
Engineering is always about trade-offs. Airplane engineering is
about trade-offs that are often difficult to make.
One important concept in engineering is the concept of
"Metrics". This is not centimeters vs. inches. It is about
measuring stuff to determine what is better and what is not. For
this question the metrics to use are probably airspeed and weight.
It might be best to leave the extra rib (fairing) off until you have
completed your initial testing. Then you could add it - perhaps in a
temporary fashion (like duct tape?) - and measure the difference in
airspeed. If you can't measure any difference then you don't need
the extra weight. If you can measure a speed difference (and it is
in the right direction) then you can scratch your head and decide
whether you want faster speed (with a known speed gain) or less weight.
You could use a different set of metrics and get a different answer
to your question. Maybe you are concerned about the noise level
while flying your plane. You could perform the same experiment but
instead of measuring airspeed you might measure sound level. The
fairing might reduce the sound level or it might not. Again, you can
make a good, informed, decision once you have made the measurements.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 05:03 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote:
>Just my thoughts on this.. Why add extra weight when not needed? I
>cut off the corners of every "L" piece to keep weight down. Rounded
>ends of longerons and u/c slides etc.. I'm not smart enough to do
>the math to decide if the drag reduction is more valuable than the
>extra weight. Anybody out there..?
>Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Monday Chat Room |
Are you kidding? LSU is playing for the naytional championship!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: George Race
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Monday Chat Room
Tonight is chat night again for those who may be interested and
available.
8:00 EST at: http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat
See you there,
George
CH-701 N73EX (reserved)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/7/2008 9:14 AM
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Monday Chat Room |
I'm new to the list, and am considering building an aircraft... Wished
I'd seen the posting earlier about the chat... I'll try to remember it
next week!
Ron
Edward Moody II wrote:
> Are you kidding? LSU is playing for the naytional championship!!!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* George Race <mailto:mykitairplane@mrrace.com>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 07, 2008 6:03 PM
> *Subject:* Zenith-List: Monday Chat Room
>
> Tonight is chat night again for those who may be interested and
> available.
>
> 8:00 EST at: http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat
>
> See you there,
>
> George
> CH-701 N73EX (reserved)
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Starting my 701 project |
Thanks Thomas for the kind words.
I have to admit I haven't read the "rules of engagement" myself but I DID use
my God given common sense when I called them on this. It makes my behind very
TIRED reading and SIFTING through the garbage to get to things that ARE of importance.
Too bad more people don't feel the way we do about it. In fact, I
got chastised last week for saying something like I did on this post, and I was
told to "chill out and take a breather". I say WHOOEY TO THAT! I don't have
the time OR energy to waste reading idle GARBAGE.
Regards,
Larry
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Really nice looking airplane! Okay so you have a great plane and you're
finished several months ahead of mine. On the other hand.....
LSU is the new National Football Champion!!!!!!!
Dred
601XL/Jabiru
Rayne, Louisiana
LSU Class of 1977
Do Not Archive
Do Not Mess with the TIGERS!!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey A Beachy
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: N701N Completed and Flying
My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December
17, 2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day. I built N701N
from a Zenith complete airframe kit and a Skyshops firewall-forward kit.
Engine is a Rotax 912ULS with Woodcomp propeller; instruments are steam
gauges with a Microair Comm and Transponder. I logged 2,560 hours of
building over thirty-three months, including painting. This was my first
airplane project and I enjoyed the entire experience. The Zenith
Matronics List was a great help in building my airplane. Special thanks
to Larry Martin, Brian Unruh, Tommy Walker, Dirk Slabbert, Jerry
Erickson, John Flavin and others on this list who were willing to share
their experiences and recommendations. Now, if the never-ceasing winds
around here will finally die down, I'll be happy to get back to flying!
Jeff Beachy
Plain City, Ohio
N701N
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/7/2008 9:14 AM
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Congratulations Jeff!!!!!!
Steven Bornstein
475 E. North Broadway
Columbus, Ohio 43214
614 263-5819
In a message dated 1/7/2008 11:15:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lrm@skyhawg.com writes:
Fine Job my friend. Now this is what the list is for. LRM www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: _Jeffrey A Beachy_ (mailto:beachyjeff@juno.com)
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: N701N Completed and Flying
My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December 17,
2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day. I built N701N from a Zenith
complete airframe kit and a Skyshops firewall-forward kit. Engine is a Rotax
912ULS with Woodcomp propeller; instruments are steam gauges with a Microair
Comm and Transponder. I logged 2,560 hours of building over thirty-three
months, including painting. This was my first airplane project and I enjoyed the
entire experience. The Zenith Matronics List was a great help in building my
airplane. Special thanks to Larry Martin, Brian Unruh, Tommy Walker, Dirk
Slabbert, Jerry Erickson, John Flavin and others on this list who were willing
to share their experiences and recommendations. Now, if the never-ceasing
winds around here will finally die down, I'll be happy to get back to flying!
Jeff Beachy
Plain City, Ohio
N701N
____________________________________
Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 55
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Chuck Long - Please contact me off list regarding steering boots
Thank you,
Darrell
601 xl
do not archive
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