Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Corvair Conversion (was Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)) (Craig Payne)
2. 12:08 AM - Re: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (David Downey)
3. 12:10 AM - Re: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Bryan Martin)
4. 12:43 AM - Re: 701 Wings Wanted (John Marzulli)
5. 12:45 AM - Re: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (MacDonald Doug)
6. 01:19 AM - (CH-701) Anyone else have edge distance issues with 7F3-3SP? (John Marzulli)
7. 01:23 AM - Re: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Art Gibeaut)
8. 01:48 AM - Re: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (LarryMcFarland)
9. 02:42 AM - Re: 701 Wings Wanted ()
10. 02:47 AM - Re: Fuel Filter (steveadams)
11. 02:59 AM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 03:01 AM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (William Dominguez)
13. 05:17 AM - Sale agreement (Bob)
14. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Filter (Jaybannist@cs.com)
15. 06:34 AM - 601XL Gear Channel (special4)
16. 06:45 AM - Re: TD heel supports (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
17. 07:18 AM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Gig Giacona)
18. 08:37 AM - Re: Fuel Filter (steveadams)
19. 08:43 AM - LRI Probe Question (pavel569)
20. 08:56 AM - Re: 701 Wings Wanted (LRM)
21. 09:07 AM - Re: Fuel Filter (Gig Giacona)
22. 09:13 AM - Re: Sale agreement (jonaburns)
23. 09:50 AM - Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Keystone Engineering LLC)
24. 09:51 AM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Tim Juhl)
25. 10:47 AM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (PatrickW)
26. 11:01 AM - Re: instrument panel (Juan Vega)
27. 11:01 AM - Re: instrument panel (Juan Vega)
28. 11:17 AM - Re: LRI Probe Question (Dino Bortolin)
29. 11:18 AM - Re: LRI Probe Question (japhillipsga@aol.com)
30. 11:20 AM - Re: LRI Probe Question (Paul Mulwitz)
31. 11:49 AM - Fw: Re: zodiac instrument panel (Juan Vega)
32. 12:28 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (LRM)
33. 12:43 PM - Re: Sale agreement (robert stone)
34. 01:23 PM - Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (Craig Payne)
35. 01:24 PM - Hangar condensate and my 601 (LarryMcFarland)
36. 01:35 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Carl)
37. 01:38 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (Gig Giacona)
38. 01:46 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (John Short)
39. 02:26 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (Gerald Scampoli)
40. 02:27 PM - Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (Kevin L. Rupert)
41. 02:57 PM - Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (Craig Payne)
42. 03:15 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (raymondj)
43. 03:22 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (DaveC)
44. 03:26 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (Scott E. Bevier)
45. 03:33 PM - Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (steve)
46. 03:52 PM - Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (Craig Payne)
47. 04:21 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (kmccune)
48. 04:24 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (kmccune)
49. 04:28 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (LarryMcFarland)
50. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Carl)
51. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (ZodieRocket)
52. 05:32 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (Edward Moody II)
53. 05:58 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (ronlee)
54. 06:18 PM - 601 Rudder (tlski)
55. 06:40 PM - Condensation (Jaybannist@cs.com)
56. 06:53 PM - Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (macleod@eagle.ca)
57. 07:02 PM - Re: 601 Rudder (ZodieRocket)
58. 07:04 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (leinad)
59. 07:17 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (leinad)
60. 07:18 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (macleod@eagle.ca)
61. 08:04 PM - Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders |
out loud))
> Here is William Wynne's website: www.flycorvair.com
Don't forget to subscribe to the Corvaircraft e-mail list :
http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft
There is a searchable archive of the list here:
http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp
-- Craig
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Zenith has sold me not only separate parts but even parts bent from a different
gauge that the standard kit (and at no extra charge!). great company.
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
>
> The best of both of these worlds, is buying the kit or parts that you
> know you cannot build and then scratch build parts that you manage to
> mess up.
What a great idea! [Idea] Will Zenith sell just the ribs out of the wing kit for
example? or parts that require a break larger than 36"?
Dave
--------
Dave
Alvin, Texas
CH-701 wanna-be-soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156800#156800
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
I have bought replacements for a few parts I messed up. Zenith had no
problem with that.
DaveC wrote:
>
>
> What a great idea! [Idea] Will Zenith sell just the ribs out of the wing kit
for example? or parts that require a break larger than 36"?
>
> Dave
>
> --------
> Dave
> Alvin, Texas
> CH-701 wanna-be-soon
>
>
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wings Wanted |
Zenith will happily sell you a wing kit, and that is probably the best way
to go.
The wings will have to be built with a pickup template made from the
fuselage in order for a proper fit to be obtained.
Good luck!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Jan 8, 2008 1:42 PM, Stan Bearup <bearup@ida.net> wrote:
> I recently purchased a Zenith 701 project plane that has some wing
> damage, and figured I should check with the list to see if anyone here has a
> good set of 701 wings for sale, or perhaps a wing kit?
>
> Thanks,
> Stan Bearup
> American Falls, Idaho
> (208) 226-5531
> bearup@ida.net
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Dave, I'm sure that I'm not the going to be the last
one to suggest this. Get the Homebuilthelp.com
scratch building basics DVD. Mark Townsend (CAN-ZAC
Aviation) and David Barth go through the basics of
scratch building a sheet metal (especially Zenith)
aircraft. Oh, and don't forget Mr. Sock.
The DVDs are about 3 hrs long and you will watch them
several times and learn something new every time. Once
you see Mark do it, the manufacture of the parts that
make up the kit is really not that hard. I'm scratch
building my CH-701 and cannot imagine doing it any
other way.
Either scratch built or kit built, Zenith aircraft are
great projects. I can't believe how much I've learned
in the last two years.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
--- DaveC <davecove@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not counting tool-up, how much cheaper? 20%? 50%?
> 80%?
>
> I live near Houston and so would pay no shipping to
> pick up sheets. Any kind of tool or service is
> available locally. Saving some $$ on the airframe so
> that I can spend more $$ on the engine is very
> attractive to me.
>
> What is not attractive to me is the cut-out. I have
> a hard time cutting a pie correctly. Taking a pair
> of shears to a couple-hundred-dollar sheet makes my
> palms sweat already. Is a matched set of snips the
> only way to go for all that cutting?
>
> --------
> Dave
> Alvin, Texas
> CH-701 wanna-be-soon
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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| Subject: | (CH-701) Anyone else have edge distance issues with 7F3-3SP? |
When I drilled out the holes that connect 7F3-3SP with the diagonal tube the
distance between the holes was unacceptable to me. This was after even
reducing the edge distance for the holes on the gusset and the tube.
I ended up fabricating a new diagonal tube gusset, but it seems fairly
impossible to fit those four rivets in the tube if you have everything lined
up correctly. The only solution I can see is enlarging the gusset inboard so
you gain more space on the diagonal.
Anyone else have this problem? I could not find anything in the archives
about it.
Thanks!
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
My 2 cents is Larry is exactly right, the way it turns out. I bought the components
kits for the 701, and then scratch built what I screwed up. Ain't this fun?
But, the guys on this site help a lot, even if they never know it directly.
--- On Tue, 1/8/08, DaveC <davecove@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: DaveC <davecove@gmail.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2008, 5:29 PM
> <davecove@gmail.com>
>
>
> larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> >
> > The best of both of these worlds, is buying the kit or
> parts that you
> > know you cannot build and then scratch build parts
> that you manage to
> > mess up.
>
>
> What a great idea! [Idea] Will Zenith sell just the ribs
> out of the wing kit for example? or parts that require a
> break larger than 36"?
>
> Dave
>
> --------
> Dave
> Alvin, Texas
> CH-701 wanna-be-soon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156800#156800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Hi Dave,
I have $34,070 total now and there's at least another $1000 for
communication head sets, GPS, log books, charts flashlight and flight
bag. Total now, approximately $35,000.00 plus 5-1/2 years at nearly 5000
hours of work, considering jigs and aircraft construction at even $10.00
per hour puts another invisible $50K into the mix which makes it
possible to see why manufactured SLA aircraft might be so expensive.
With all this, you still have a better deal by $12K to 15K than the Kit
if you plans-build while buying only parts you cannot make.
I prefer the air-driven shears from HF for cutting just outside the cut
line and trimming by hand to the exactitude and hand filing the line.
Larry McFarland Scratch built 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
DaveC wrote:
>
> [quote="Jugle"]Simple, it's cheaper and being an ex-tradesman, I have the skills.
> [quote]
>
> Not counting tool-up, how much cheaper? 20%? 50%? 80%?
>
> I live near Houston and so would pay no shipping to pick up sheets. Any kind
of tool or service is available locally. Saving some $$ on the airframe so that
I can spend more $$ on the engine is very attractive to me.
>
> What is not attractive to me is the cut-out. I have a hard time cutting a pie
correctly. Taking a pair of shears to a couple-hundred-dollar sheet makes my
palms sweat already. Is a matched set of snips the only way to go for all that
cutting?
>
> --------
> Dave
> Alvin, Texas
> CH-701 wanna-be-soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156796#156796
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wings Wanted |
Becareful Stan, if someone does offer to sell you a set of wings then he
will get FLAMED!!!! on here and accused of selling illegal copyrighted
parts, even though they are only trying to help you.
David Mikesell
230 Theresa Drive, #6
Cloverdale, CA 95425
209-224-4485
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Stan Bearup
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 1:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Wings Wanted
I recently purchased a Zenith 701 project plane that has some wing
damage, and figured I should check with the list to see if anyone here
has a good set of 701 wings for sale, or perhaps a wing kit?
Thanks,
Stan Bearup
American Falls, Idaho
(208) 226-5531
bearup@ida.net
Message 10
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Gig Giacona wrote:
> OK, where do you think the fault intolerance is in the system?
>
>
>
> jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca wrote:
> > dingfelder wrote:
> > I'm sorry, but at the risk of flames, why would anyone knowingly design
> > such a fault-intolerant, complex fuel system?
> >
> >
>
Maybe I am wrong, but from what I understand, the fuel pumps should be in a "parallel"
configuration, as the failure of one pump could severely restrict or
completely block flow of fuel through the line.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156904#156904
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Hi Dave,
For me the kit vs. scratch build question was easy to answer. I felt
willing to pay a fair price for the services provided by Zenith in
hunting down materials and performing some of the most difficult
tasks such as welding and bending long parts.
Many of the building tasks are the same whether you buy a kit or
not. I think the ones that differ are mostly administrative tasks
procuring materials and basic metal working tasks. If you enjoy
doing these things then the scratch building approach is a good
choice. If you have enough money to pay for these things and don't
want to do them then the kit approach is a good one.
I feel the quality of parts provided by Zenith is very high. If you
want this level of quality in a plane you will put your body in then
Zenith is a good choice to supply parts. If you decide to build all
the parts from raw materials then you must have or develop the skill
and patience to produce high quality parts yourself. In either case
you must develop the skill to evaluate the parts you are
using. While most of the work done by Zenith is very good there is
always the chance of a screw up. As a builder, you are the final
authority on quality of your plane and of each part that goes into it.
The other obvious point is you will finish your plane a lot sooner if
you buy the kit. If your primary reason for building a plane is you
want to get it in the air then this is a positive thing. If your
primary reason for building a plane is to enjoy the building process
then this could be viewed as a negative.
I don't know how much money you can save by scratch building, but I
suspect it is rather small compared to the cost of the whole
plane. It depends on how well you perform the task of acquiring
materials. In any case you can only save a portion of the kit cost
which is something around $20,000. You will still face additional
costs of engine, paint, instrumentation, upholstery, and other stuff
no matter which way you build the basic airframe.
Good luck,
Paul
Xl fuselage
At 11:13 AM 1/8/2008, you wrote:
>Simple question I am pondering. Should I scratch build or kit build?
>I don't know enough yet to make that decision, so I thought I would
>ask those who had finished their pondering.
>
>I mean, scratch building takes a lot longer for sure.
>
>So... why do it that way? [Rolling Eyes]
>
>Is it a pride thing?
>A personal learning thing?
>A climb the mountain 'because it is there' thing?
>Is it that much cheaper?
>
>--------
>Dave
>Alvin, Texas
>CH-701 wanna-be-soon
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
I'm scratch building a 601XL and the # 1 reason I'm doing is because it is fun
and very rewarding, for me. There are lots of rational reasons in favor of scratch
building like, lower cost, pay as you go, learning, pride, sense of achievement.
However, these reasons will have no value if you don't enjoy cutting and
bending aluminum or any of the other demands of scratch building. In making
a decision between plans or kit, don't get too caught up in reasons and just
go for what you think will be more rewarding for you.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom/
Simple question I am pondering. Should I scratch build or kit build? I don't know
enough yet to make that decision, so I thought I would ask those who had finished
their pondering.
I mean, scratch building takes a lot longer for sure.
So... why do it that way? [Rolling Eyes]
Is it a pride thing?
A personal learning thing?
A climb the mountain 'because it is there' thing?
Is it that much cheaper?
--------
Dave
Alvin, Texas
CH-701 wanna-be-soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156771#156771
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Has anyone come up with a good sales agreement for an experimental?
EAA lists many questions but no formal agreement. Probably does not want
to
publish one because it would be seen as giving legal advice.
Bob, Wichita
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Steve,
Not true. William Wynne recommends two fuel pumps in series. He has been flying
his 601XL for several years in this configuration with no problems. For some
types of fuel pumps, this may be true, but not the ones Wynne recommends (Facet
Part No. FP-40108).
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
"steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>Gig Giacona wrote:
>> OK, where do you think the fault intolerance is in the system?
>>
>>
>>
>> jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca wrote:
>> > dingfelder wrote:
>> > I'm sorry, but at the risk of flames, why would anyone knowingly design
>> > such a fault-intolerant, complex fuel system?
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>Maybe I am wrong, but from what I understand, the fuel pumps should be in a "parallel"
configuration, as the failure of one pump could severely restrict or
completely block flow of fuel through the line.
>
>Steve
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156904#156904
>
>
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| Subject: | 601XL Gear Channel |
I need a gear channel 6B5-5... does any group member have a "spare" one.....
Thanks
Peter
601XL
--------
Sportsflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156936#156936
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| Subject: | RE: TD heel supports |
I measured my QB fuselage. Measuring outside from the forward lower
edge of the firewall, the lines are at approx. 315 and 555 mm back.
(Hard to measure with gear in the way.) There is no intermediate line.
You will have to drill a new row and fill your short row with rivets.
Sorry,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD, Corvair, building...
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Let's be realistic here. If cutting the aluminum makes you nervous the you probably
aren't a good candidate for scratch building. And if you can't get over that
concern you may not be a candidate for kit building.
Along with the video that lots of folks have suggested go to the Rudder Building
workshop. It's what I did and when I went the main thing I was trying to decide
was if I had or could develop the skills needed to build the kit. When I started
a lot less was done when you bought the kit as opposed to how the kit is
delivered now and there was no QBK.
I'd strongly suggest you go to the workshop no matter which path you choose to take it is worth it. Here's a link to more info. http://zenithair.com/events.htm
DaveC wrote:
> What is not attractive to me is the cut-out. I have a hard time cutting a pie
correctly. Taking a pair of shears to a couple-hundred-dollar sheet makes my
palms sweat already. Is a matched set of snips the only way to go for all that
cutting?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156954#156954
Message 18
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Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Not true. William Wynne recommends two fuel pumps in series. He has been flying
his 601XL for several years in this configuration with no problems. For some
types of fuel pumps, this may be true, but not the ones Wynne recommends (Facet
Part No. FP-40108).
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
>
> I stand corrected. I had never seen this type of arrangement before.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> "steveadams" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Gig Giacona wrote:
> > > OK, where do you think the fault intolerance is in the system?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca wrote:
> > > > dingfelder wrote:
> > > > I'm sorry, but at the risk of flames, why would anyone knowingly design
> > > > such a fault-intolerant, complex fuel system?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Maybe I am wrong, but from what I understand, the fuel pumps should be in a
"parallel" configuration, as the failure of one pump could severely restrict
or completely block flow of fuel through the line.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156904#156904
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156967#156967
Message 19
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| Subject: | LRI Probe Question |
There is probably more than 10 topics about LRI or AOA - yes or not, buy or make
etc. I have a machine shop and being cheap means I want to make it myself. I
went through all these discussions here to find a recommended drawing for a probe.
http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm
If I look at the drawing it just doesn't give a sense to me. Both the holes opening
are at the same angle - they are parallel so no matter what the angle of
the probe with a wing is, they will have to read the same pressure. What my common
sense is telling me is that I have to have to drill the hole at port openings
at a different angle - 45% so higher angle of attack will increase the ram
pressure in lower probe.
One more thing - sharp or round edges. In my opinion it doesn't matter. Most important
thing would be to have the flowing air coming only into the hole area
opening - not to cumulate more air going in from other surfaces like pouring water
through a funnel. So if I keep the probe edge flat just around the inlet,
I should be fine. I'll make a few extras, so it may be for grab, I guess.
Please, let me know what you think.
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156970#156970
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wings Wanted |
If you build both parts then it doesn't matter which you build first.
If you follow the plans they will fit regardless of the cart or the
horse. In your case John could be right, it might not be a bad idea to
do a lot of measuring and build a template because someone else built
the fuselage. There is no telling what you will find. However, I will
say that if you buy ready made wings that don't exactly fit, you can
always use shims and longer bolts. Everything is fixable.
LRM www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John Marzulli
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Wings Wanted
Zenith will happily sell you a wing kit, and that is probably the best
way to go.
The wings will have to be built with a pickup template made from the
fuselage in order for a proper fit to be obtained.
Good luck!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Jan 8, 2008 1:42 PM, Stan Bearup <bearup@ida.net> wrote:
I recently purchased a Zenith 701 project plane that has some wing
damage, and figured I should check with the list to see if anyone here
has a good set of 701 wings for sale, or perhaps a wing kit?
Thanks,
Stan Bearup
American Falls, Idaho
(208) 226-5531
bearup@ida.net
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a
lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/8/2008 1:38 PM
Message 21
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The pumps used in the WW design flow freely when off. In fact, only one of those
pumps is running at any given time.
steveadams wrote:
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
> > OK, where do you think the fault intolerance is in the system?
> >
> >
> >
> > jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca wrote:
> > > dingfelder wrote:
> > > I'm sorry, but at the risk of flames, why would anyone knowingly design
> > > such a fault-intolerant, complex fuel system?
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> Maybe I am wrong, but from what I understand, the fuel pumps should be in a "parallel"
configuration, as the failure of one pump could severely restrict or
completely block flow of fuel through the line.
>
> Steve
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156975#156975
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Sale agreement |
http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/expbos.doc
Here is a bill of Sale off one of the RV sites I like.
Jon Burns
601XL Kit "almost" complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156979#156979
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| Subject: | Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Why buy a kit or scratch build?
To me the question was simple. I enjoyed building the airplane. I love to fly.
Anything that would get me into the air sooner was better. It was worth the
extra money to fly a year or two or three earlier.
Bill Wilcox
Valdez, Alaska
N801BW
350 hrs
Put away for winter
fitting for floats before spring.
>Simple question I am pondering. Should I scratch build or kit build? I don't know
enough yet to >make that decision, so I thought I would ask those who had
finished their pondering.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Gig's advice is really good. The rudder building workshop will answer a lot of
your questions.
Even when you buy the kit there is still a lot of trimming and filing to finish
the parts. What helps is that the big pieces like wing skins are cut to size
and have #40 pilot holes where the ribs and rear spar go.
I was no great shakes on cutting aluminum before I started but now I am a real whiz at such things. It helps to have the right tools and a couple of things I'd put high on my list would be an OLFA P800 knife (see: http://www.ch601.org/tools/olfa.htm) for making long straight cuts and a nibbling tool for those really tight spots.
EAA also offers weekend classes around the country that teach basic airplane building skills. So far I have taken the sheet metal and composites (for working with the fiberglass parts) classes and benefited from both (http://www.sportair.com/)
One additional comment - I chose Zenith because of the quality and completeness
of it's kits and the support from the factory. An added bonus has been the quality
of support and encouragement that I've received from the members of this
list.
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156985#156985
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
For a lot of guys, it's not a question of "scratch build vs kit"...
It's a question of "kit vs quick build".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156998#156998
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: instrument panel |
i replyed last week. please check to make sure you got it.
i have dydnons and I mentioned that I have the 100 and 120, and that I would only
do the 180 next time. I have becker radio and transpdr. and a lowrance airmap
2000
If you go online Pete at Jabiru Tennesse has a great price on the becker trnxpr
and radio, like around 2200, 1000.00 less than list.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: laurens ackerman <lackerma@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 8, 2008 9:56 PM
>To: amyvega2005@earthlink.net
>Subject: instrument panel
>
>I thought I sent you mail recently asking about your instrument panel.
>Perhaps I did not.
>Anyway, my question is as follows:
>
>Could you send me a list of instruments on your panel.
>I saw your panel on the zenith site and will be putting together a
>similar panel...any advice is appreciated.
>Thanks,
>
>laurens
>
>--
>Laurens Ackerman
>lackerma@gmail.com
>cell 847 226 6945
>wilmette home 847 251 0635
>montana home 406 777 0080
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: instrument panel |
i replyed last week. please check to make sure you got it.
i have dydnons and I mentioned that I have the 100 and 120, and that I would only
do the 180 next time. I have becker radio and transpdr. and a lowrance airmap
2000
If you go online Pete at Jabiru Tennesse has a great price on the becker trnxpr
and radio, like around 2200, 1000.00 less than list.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: laurens ackerman <lackerma@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 8, 2008 9:56 PM
>To: amyvega2005@earthlink.net
>Subject: instrument panel
>
>I thought I sent you mail recently asking about your instrument panel.
>Perhaps I did not.
>Anyway, my question is as follows:
>
>Could you send me a list of instruments on your panel.
>I saw your panel on the zenith site and will be putting together a
>similar panel...any advice is appreciated.
>Thanks,
>
>laurens
>
>--
>Laurens Ackerman
>lackerma@gmail.com
>cell 847 226 6945
>wilmette home 847 251 0635
>montana home 406 777 0080
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Probe Question |
The angle of the ports doesn't matter, within reason. It's the angle of the
surfaces to the relative airflow that causes a differential pressure.
On Jan 9, 2008 11:41 AM, pavel569 <pm569@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> There is probably more than 10 topics about LRI or AOA - yes or not, buy
> or make etc. I have a machine shop and being cheap means I want to make it
> myself. I went through all these discussions here to find a recommended
> drawing for a probe.
> http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm
>
> If I look at the drawing it just doesn't give a sense to me. Both the
> holes opening are at the same angle - they are parallel so no matter what
> the angle of the probe with a wing is, they will have to read the same
> pressure. What my common sense is telling me is that I have to have to drill
> the hole at port openings at a different angle - 45% so higher angle of
> attack will increase the ram pressure in lower probe.
> One more thing - sharp or round edges. In my opinion it doesn't matter.
> Most important thing would be to have the flowing air coming only into the
> hole area opening - not to cumulate more air going in from other surfaces
> like pouring water through a funnel. So if I keep the probe edge flat just
> around the inlet, I should be fine. I'll make a few extras, so it may be for
> grab, I guess.
> Please, let me know what you think.
>
> --------
> Pavel
> CA
> Zodiac XL N581PM
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156970#156970
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Probe Question |
Pavel, I understand your concern. I have a LRI proble mounted under my XL's left
wing that was made to these plans and it works well. Use it every time I fly.
The probe is an aluminum bar cut square. One hole comes out the end and the
second hole out the side. The corner of the bar is the split line. To adjust it
to the planes stall you adjust the probe up or down. Best of luck, Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: pavel569 <pm569@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:41 am
Subject: Zenith-List: LRI Probe Question
There is probably more than 10 topics about LRI or AOA - yes or not, buy or make
etc. I have a machine shop and being cheap means I want to make it myself. I
went through all these discussions here to find a recommended drawing for a
probe.
http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm
If I look at the drawing it just doesn't give a sense to me. Both the holes
opening are at the same angle - they are parallel so no matter what the angle of
the probe with a wing is, they will have to read the same pressure. What my
common sense is telling me is that I have to have to drill the hole at port
openings at a different angle - 45% so higher angle of attack will increase the
ram pressure in lower probe.
One more thing - sharp or round edges. In my opinion it doesn't matter. Most
important thing would be to have the flowing air coming only into the hole area
opening - not to cumulate more air going in from other surfaces like pouring
water through a funnel. So if I keep the probe edge flat just around the inlet,
I should be fine. I'll make a few extras, so it may be for grab, I guess.
Please, let me know what you think.
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156970#156970
________________________________________________________________________
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Probe Question |
Hi Pavel,
I built my own LRI probe and bought a new gauge from the manufacturer.
My take on the holes is you drill them just as shown in the
drawing. I haven't flown it in my plane yet (slight lack of flying
plane) but I did a little testing while holding it out the window of
a moving car. It works fine.
I think the part you might not be considering is the sharp corner
between the two input holes. This edge divides the air flow so a
portion goes in the upper sense hole and a different portion goes in
the lower hole. I think it is important for this edge to be sharp
and the space from the edge to the sense holes to be flat.
Have fun,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 08:41 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>There is probably more than 10 topics about LRI or AOA - yes or not,
>buy or make etc. I have a machine shop and being cheap means I want
>to make it myself. I went through all these discussions here to find
>a recommended drawing for a probe.
>http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm
>
>If I look at the drawing it just doesn't give a sense to me. Both
>the holes opening are at the same angle - they are parallel so no
>matter what the angle of the probe with a wing is, they will have
>to read the same pressure. What my common sense is telling me is
>that I have to have to drill the hole at port openings at a
>different angle - 45% so higher angle of attack will increase the
>ram pressure in lower probe.
>One more thing - sharp or round edges. In my opinion it doesn't
>matter. Most important thing would be to have the flowing air coming
>only into the hole area opening - not to cumulate more air going in
>from other surfaces like pouring water through a funnel. So if I
>keep the probe edge flat just around the inlet, I should be fine.
>I'll make a few extras, so it may be for grab, I guess.
>Please, let me know what you think.
>
>--------
>Pavel
>CA
>Zodiac XL N581PM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Re: zodiac instrument panel |
-----Forwarded Message-----
>From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Jan 8, 2008 10:41 AM
>To: lackerfma@gmail.com
>Subject: Re: zodiac instrument panel
>
>they are dynon d100 and d120 system with Becker radio and a lowrance airmap.
I would recommend the D180 and you will have more rom to put a VOR/GS system on
the right of the GPS in the middle.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: laurens ackerman <lackerma@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Jan 7, 2008 11:57 PM
>>To: amyvega2005@earthlink.net
>>Subject: zodiac instrument panel
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am building an XL and recently saw your instrument panel on the
>>Zenith Web site. I like what I saw. Could you send me a list
>>of the instruments you have installed.
>>
>>I see you are using a GRT EFIS and EIS. Are they connected to
>>any other devices in the panel?
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>>laurens ackerman
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Here's the bottom line. It's almost political. If you are a scratch
builder, you think everyone should be a scratch builder. If a kit builder,
then kit builder. I'll tell you this, you will make less mistakes building
a kit. I did not have to do a single part over. Now a lot of parts are
precut and prepunched, some parts are even completed for you. Scratch
building is just what it says it is, you do it all unless you out source and
you will have to buy or obtain somehow a lot of Expensive tools you may
never need again. I have all the tools and skill to scratch build but would
opt for a kit every time if the money was available. These scratch guys say
it's easy, wrong even the kit isn't easy. There are several mistakes in the
plans and the instructions can be very misleading. You have to really take
you time, measure 3 times cut once. Access your money, skill level, time,
space and do what you feel right about.
I just bought a half build kit for 50 cents on the dollar. There is no
telling how many started but unfinished kits are out there. You might try
and look for one. Of course you really have to look it over good, I found
my new kit was a victim of not so good workman ship. I had to redo a lot of
work. Stay on the list, we all will help or confuse you as much as
possible. It keeps us busy so we don't start bickering. LRM
www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art Olechowski" <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)
> <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Dave,
> Everyone has there own reasons mine are in this priority:
> 1-The enjoyment of building from raw material
> 2-Quality of parts that meet individual standards
> 3-Meeting new aviators and learning new skills.
> 4-Cost
>
> do not archive
> Art
>
>
> --- DaveC <davecove@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Simple question I am pondering. Should I scratch build or kit build? I
>> don't know enough yet to
>> make that decision, so I thought I would ask those who had finished their
>> pondering.
>>
>> I mean, scratch building takes a lot longer for sure.
>>
>> So... why do it that way? [Rolling Eyes]
>>
>> Is it a pride thing?
>> A personal learning thing?
>> A climb the mountain 'because it is there' thing?
>> Is it that much cheaper?
>>
>> --------
>> Dave
>> Alvin, Texas
>> CH-701 wanna-be-soon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156771#156771
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 1:38 PM
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Sale agreement |
Bob,
Yes, someone did a few months back and I kept a copy of it. I have
attached it to this e-mail for your information. The Zenith net may
reject this because its so large so I have sent a copy direct to you as
well. I think the wording of this sales agreement is designed to
absolve the seller/builder of any liability in case the buyer has an
accident and is severely injured or killed. I am not a lawyer so I
don't know if the wording of this document would protect the seller or
not. If you are going to sell an experimental aircraft, I would most
certainly check with a lawyer first.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:13 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sale agreement
Has anyone come up with a good sales agreement for an
experimental?
EAA lists many questions but no formal agreement. Probably does
not want to publish one because it would be seen as giving legal
advice.
Bob, Wichita
Message 34
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| Subject: | Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit |
On my QBK the central pedal bearing 6B9-4 came installed along with the
rudder pedals. I was looking at the lock nuts underneath the fuselage on the
three AN3-15A bolts. Normal practice (and the Zenith construction standards,
page 31) call for a minimum of two threads to protrude beyond the nut. On my
QBK the end of the bolts do not protrude at all. In fact the tips of the
bolts are probably recessed by two threads. I don't think any threads engage
the Nylon portion of the lock nuts. Although an AN3-16A might meet the spec
I think these three bolts would have to be changed to AN3-17A to ensure
enough length.
-- Craig
Message 35
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| Subject: | Hangar condensate and my 601 |
Hi guys,
On checking the hangar during this latest winter thaw, I realized my
aircraft was literally dripping on all the undersides. Actually, the
condensate was everywhere. I wiped the plane down, but seriously doubt
that would help. In conversation with another builder, hed heard
putting a plastic sheet over the concrete floor in an unheated hangar
would help prevent humidity from rising from the dirt and concrete and
condensing on the planes surfaces. Im not a weatherman, and only have
a vague idea of whats actually going on. There are probably many of us
looking for a better solution to this. Are there any good suggestions or
practices regarding covering a plane or the floor, or both during these
wet periods?
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
DaveC,
I scratch built my 701 in 1995. Some quick points for your consideration:
1. Cost of building fuselage (firewall back) half price of kit.
2. More time? yes. I was flying after 370 days. I estimate approx 1200 hrs.
A kit would have saved me time; how much? maybe 30%.
3. If you screw up a part you replace it on the spot.( No calls, no freight,
no wait).
4. If you want a bigger safety factor in a part you can do it during the
build. (Some will disagree with changing the plans but as an experimental
buider it's your call).
5. Once you start flying parts wear and need replacing. You will confidently
make your own if you scratch built.
6. Finally you will aquire extra skills that will serve in other projects
for the rest of your life.
Hope this helps.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveC" <davecove@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 2:13 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
The plastic on the floor might help but if there is that much moisture in the hanger
the last thing you want to do is cover the airplane.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157063#157063
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
Larry:
I'm not sure if the plastic on the floor will work, I do know that before
pouring concrete if you put down plastic then pour it will keep the moisture
from wicking through your slab.
But hey it would be a cheap experiment to see, it might work the same way.
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Hangar condensate and my 601
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> On checking the hangar during this latest winter thaw, I realized my
> aircraft was literally dripping on all the undersides. Actually, the
> condensate was everywhere. I wiped the plane down, but seriously doubt
> that would help. In conversation with another builder, hed heard putting
> a plastic sheet over the concrete floor in an unheated hangar would help
> prevent humidity from rising from the dirt and concrete and condensing on
> the planes surfaces. Im not a weatherman, and only have a vague idea of
> whats actually going on. There are probably many of us looking for a
> better solution to this. Are there any good suggestions or practices
> regarding covering a plane or the floor, or both during these wet periods?
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Hangar condensate and my 601 |
Larry,
Usually the key factor in controlling moisture and condensation in a structure
is adequate ventilation. Can you provide a few square feet of vent opening both
at the roof line and at or near grade?
I'm no expert, but I saw this approach work for my EAA chapter hangar.
Gerry Scampoli
Hingham, MA
601XL - Corvair
> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:23:45 -0600
> From: larry@macsmachine.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Hangar condensate and my 601
>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> On checking the hangar during this latest winter thaw, I realized my
> aircraft was literally dripping on all the undersides. Actually, the
> condensate was everywhere. I wiped the plane down, but seriously doubt
> that would help. In conversation with another builder, hed heard
> putting a plastic sheet over the concrete floor in an unheated hangar
> would help prevent humidity from rising from the dirt and concrete and
> condensing on the planes surfaces. Im not a weatherman, and only have
> a vague idea of whats actually going on. There are probably many of us
> looking for a better solution to this. Are there any good suggestions or
> practices regarding covering a plane or the floor, or both during these
> wet periods?
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista + Windows Live.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_012008
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit |
You can try a 960L thin washer first. If that doesn't do the trick then
a longer bolt is in order.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit |
Thanks for the idea. But it is so bad that *eliminating* the washer wouldn't
bring it within spec. You would need a washer with negative thickness :-)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin L. Rupert
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build
kit
You can try a 960L thin washer first. If that doesn't do the trick then
a longer bolt is in order.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Dave,
I will be scratch building my own design because I couldn't find what I
wanted. I would scratch build from plans even if a kit was available.
I expect to acquire skills during construction that can't be acquired
any other way. I also own an old aluminum boat, so the skills and tools
will do double duty for me.
I expect the material cost to be lower than any equivalent kit.
I look forward to the satisfaction of stepping out of the aircraft after
the initial flight.
I heard the "chicks" really dig a fat old guy who scratchbuilt an
airplane. :^)
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveC" <davecove@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 1:13 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)
>
> Simple question I am pondering. Should I scratch build or kit build? I
> don't know enough yet to make that decision, so I thought I would ask
> those who had finished their pondering.
>
> I mean, scratch building takes a lot longer for sure.
>
> So... why do it that way? [Rolling Eyes]
>
> Is it a pride thing?
> A personal learning thing?
> A climb the mountain 'because it is there' thing?
> Is it that much cheaper?
>
> --------
> Dave
> Alvin, Texas
> CH-701 wanna-be-soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156771#156771
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Thanks to all... but I think Carl said just the right thing:
6. Finally you will acquire extra skills that will serve in other projects
for the rest of your life.
Having lived aboard a boat for 4 years, I am comfortable with wood, fiberglass
and things mechanical, but I have worked very little metal. Metal is a gaping
hole in the middle of my skill set. I bought my first MIG welder and learned to
use it only 4 years ago. I also have 2 compressors, a 36" shear/break/slip roll
and a barely-used medium sized mill/lathe I bought locally off eBay.
I have the desire to work metals and a good start on the tools needed but until
now (well, actually May 07, when I sold my Grumman AA5) I haven't had a good
reason for getting bizzy with the metal. And now I have the right reason. I will
scratch-build the 701, starting on the easiest parts and progressing toward
the most difficult. As I progress I will make or buy the parts I need depending
upon how well my skills are developing and the overall speed of the project.
So... now another open-ended question... that is the best part to start on? A scratch
build part that will build skills and not cost a lot to mess up. Wing and
tail ribs maybe? Lots of them... wax on/wax off kind of practice?
--------
Dave
Alvin, Texas
CH-701 wanna-be-soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157084#157084
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| Subject: | Hangar condensate and my 601 |
Larry,
There's a simple way to determine if the source of moisture is from the
concrete slab. Cover a 48" square area on the floor with clear plastic and
tape the edges down. After 24 hours, check for condensate UNDER the plastic.
I don't believe this is the reason for the wet airplane. What happens is
after a period of cold temperatures the hanger is cold, your airplane is
cold, everything is cold, and there's very little moisture in the air. Then
we get an abrupt blast of warm moisture laden air from the south and the
moisture will condense out on all surfaces that are below the dew point. I
see this a lot here in Michigan, especially in early Spring. There's no
practical way to prevent this but you could try running a high velocity fan
in the hanger whenever the weather forecast indicate warm moist air is on
the way. This may help reduce the amount of condensate on the airplane, and
the duration it's wet, but it will not prevent it.
Scott Bevier
active plans builder 601XL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:24 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Hangar condensate and my 601
Hi guys,
On checking the hangar during this latest winter thaw, I realized my
aircraft was literally dripping on all the undersides. Actually, the
condensate was everywhere. I wiped the plane down, but seriously doubt
that would help. In conversation with another builder, he'd heard
putting a plastic sheet over the concrete floor in an unheated hangar
would help prevent humidity from rising from the dirt and concrete and
condensing on the plane's surfaces. I'm not a weatherman, and only have
a vague idea of what's actually going on. There are probably many of us
looking for a better solution to this. Are there any good suggestions or
practices regarding covering a plane or the floor, or both during these
wet periods?
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit |
Must change...
Did you get the hole gauge ???
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit
> On my QBK the central pedal bearing 6B9-4 came installed along with the
> rudder pedals. I was looking at the lock nuts underneath the fuselage on
> the
> three AN3-15A bolts. Normal practice (and the Zenith construction
> standards,
> page 31) call for a minimum of two threads to protrude beyond the nut. On
> my
> QBK the end of the bolts do not protrude at all. In fact the tips of the
> bolts are probably recessed by two threads. I don't think any threads
> engage
> the Nylon portion of the lock nuts. Although an AN3-16A might meet the
> spec
> I think these three bolts would have to be changed to AN3-17A to ensure
> enough length.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit |
No - I ordered my own set from Grizzly and it got caught in a snow storm
coming down from Washington state. So instead of arriving today it will
arrive tomorrow. I did receive my 5/16th close tolerance bolts from Spruce
and they are still loose in my worst spar holes.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build
kit
Must change...
Did you get the hole gauge ???
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit
> On my QBK the central pedal bearing 6B9-4 came installed along with the
> rudder pedals. I was looking at the lock nuts underneath the fuselage on
> the
> three AN3-15A bolts. Normal practice (and the Zenith construction
> standards,
> page 31) call for a minimum of two threads to protrude beyond the nut. On
> my
> QBK the end of the bolts do not protrude at all. In fact the tips of the
> bolts are probably recessed by two threads. I don't think any threads
> engage
> the Nylon portion of the lock nuts. Although an AN3-16A might meet the
> spec
> I think these three bolts would have to be changed to AN3-17A to ensure
> enough length.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
[Laughing]
raymondj(at)frontiernet.n wrote:
> Dave,
>
>
>
> I heard the "chicks" really dig a fat old guy who scratchbuilt an
> airplane. :^)
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> "Hope for the best,
> but prepare for the worst."
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ---
Do not Archive
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157101#157101
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
I started with the rudder, same as the rudder workshop. The 1st homebuilt help
video will guide you though it and it will give you what you need to continue
with the rest. I suggest to get all the videos, I don't count it as airplane build
time though :D
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157102#157102
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
Gerald,
You may have hit on it and it would be a problem of my own making. Last
spring, I used expanding insulating foam to keep the birds out of the hangar
and managed to close everything they could get thru. I may have to
drill it all out to allow air to circulate and replace it with screen.
Of course, there are a few days that will be damp regardless, but this
is one I can do.
Thanks again!
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Gerald Scampoli wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> Usually the key factor in controlling moisture and condensation in a structure
is adequate ventilation. Can you provide a few square feet of vent opening
both at the roof line and at or near grade?
>
> I'm no expert, but I saw this approach work for my EAA chapter hangar.
>
> Gerry Scampoli
> Hingham, MA
> 601XL - Corvair
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Dave
Wings are a good choice to start.
Only advise, build a nice level 4'X12' table before you start assembly.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveC" <davecove@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Dave, go to www.homebuilthelp.com and order the scratch builders DVD.
This should be your first step. Then ask questions after watching that
DVD. The cost is low and the learning will help you a lot. Plus they
build a 701 Rudder in the making of the DVD.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
So... now another open-ended question... that is the best part to start
on? A scratch build part that will build skills and not cost a lot to
mess up. Wing and tail ribs maybe? Lots of them... wax on/wax off kind
of practice?
--------
Dave
Alvin, Texas
CH-701 wanna-be-soon
1/9/2008 10:16 AM
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
I am not sure what is common practice in your locale but here in
Louisiana, we always put heavy plastic down in the forms over the
dirt/sand before pouring concrete. My understanding is the plastic is
intended to prevent the finished concrete from "sweating" during cool,
damp weather. If that was done when your hangar's slab was poured then
more plastic over the surface isn't likely to help. In fact, the only
thing that is likely to help is probably not practical. That would be to
lower the relative humidity inside the hangar, probably by raising the
temperature. If you have another way to dehumidify the hangar that might
solve the problem but otherwise you are most likely stuck with the
situation.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: LarryMcFarland
To: zenith-list
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Hangar condensate and my 601
<larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi guys,
On checking the hangar during this latest winter thaw, I realized my
aircraft was literally dripping on all the undersides.
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
c
Covering the ground with plastic and then old carpet on top of it worked for our
hanger. Before that the water would drip from the ceiling from condensation.
The planes also would sweat if conditions were right before covering the floor.
Apparently very much moisture was coming up through the ground, even though
it looked bone dry. No more problems now.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157134#157134
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I am ready to complete the rudder and it was suggested that I install
the rudder bearing blocks when the fuse is done. How much of the rudder
should I close?
Message 55
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Larry,
In my experience, I have found that there are many causes of wet concrete slabs.
In mysterious instances, a concrete slab will attract moisture even where there
seems to be none. Moisture barriers are not always used, because it keeps
the freshly placed concrete from giving up its moisture uniformly through the
top and bottom, resulting in slab curling. To get around this, sometimes there
is a moisture barrier and a layer of sand on top of it to promote proper drying
of the slab. But a concrete slab with no moisture barrier beneath it might
result in a damp slab, but not necessarily a damp atmosphere. Condensation on
objects above the slab result from a very damp atmosphere and very cold temperatures.
The real cure is interior climate control, but as has been previously
suggested, ventilation is the most expedient cure. I would try that first.
Jay in Dallas (Retired Architect)
601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build |
kit
Craig:
I had the same problem with my kit (not quick build). I replaced the
AN3-15As with AN3-16As and used thin washers to get the required thread
exposure. I am in the fortunate position of having lots of AN hardware on
hand so these substitutions are easy for me.
Mike
waiting patiently for my Rotax FWFwd
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> Although an AN3-16A might meet the
> spec
> I think these three bolts would have to be changed to AN3-17A to ensure
> enough length.
>
Message 57
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|
Sounds like a Canadian on Vacation. For Canadian inspection by the MD-RA
you may rivet one side complete, rivet the nose skin on the rib but only
half of the rear skin on the one side. Set 4 rivets in the spar for
storage which will be drilled out the day of the inspection. Do not
store the rudder with cleco=92s in it, or any part for that matter. A
cleco over time is a magnet for accidental hitting or catching on
clothing which will leave a dent in your part. Also over time a cleco
can rust from condensation leaving corrosion on your part.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tlski
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 9:16 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder
I am ready to complete the rudder and it was suggested that I install
the rudder bearing blocks when the fuse is done. How much of the rudder
should I close?
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
1/9/2008 10:16 AM
1/9/2008 10:16 AM
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
My foremost reason was the (lack) of money.
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157153#157153
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
LRM,
I can't agree with that. I think you'll find most of us scratch builders understand
the desire to get it done faster. I think you'll find most of us regard
it as a trade off. Cost VS Time. I don't think scratch building is for everybody.
Dan
lrm(at)skyhawg.com wrote:
> Here's the bottom line. It's almost political. If you are a scratch
> builder, you think everyone should be a scratch builder.
>
> ---
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157158#157158
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
Larry:
As others have noted, if the temperature of the plane skins go below the
dew point (ie cold plane & warm moist air) then you will get condensation
on the plane (probably inside and outside). I am a metallurgical engineer
and can assure you that the plane's materials can easily take this wetness
without any ill effects. Venting the hanger will certainly help but
perhaps an easier solution would be to just put light bulbs in the plane
(one in each wing root and one in the fuse). That should be enough to
keep the interior and the outer surfaces above the dew point. I do this
in my unheated garage more for piece of mind with the electronics than
anything else. You only need to turn them on during the kind of weather
we have had in the past few days (sudden warming where the moist outside
air is much warmer than the temperature inside the hanger or if there is a
chance of fog).
Turned colder today so I turned the lights off.
I use 60 watt bulbs.
Mike
601XL waiting patiently for the Rotax FWFwd
> Are there any good suggestions or
> practices regarding covering a plane or the floor, or both during these
> wet periods?
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
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| Subject: | Something else to check on your 601XL quick build |
kit
Thanks! I'm not surprised that the regular kits can have the same problem.
All the parts involved were made by ZAC in Missouri. But I do wonder why the
folks in Bogota built and shipped it this way.
For small orders like this the shipping from Aircraft Spruce is usually more
than the parts. I'll probably wait till I have a larger order and order -16A
and -17A. Guess I'll add some thin washers to my set of miscellaneous
hardware too. As usual the perfect bolt is an AN3-16.5 :-)
-- Craig
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
macleod@eagle.ca
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build
kit
Craig:
I had the same problem with my kit (not quick build). I replaced the
AN3-15As with AN3-16As and used thin washers to get the required thread
exposure. I am in the fortunate position of having lots of AN hardware on
hand so these substitutions are easy for me.
Mike
waiting patiently for my Rotax FWFwd
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> Although an AN3-16A might meet the
> spec
> I think these three bolts would have to be changed to AN3-17A to ensure
> enough length.
>
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