Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:23 AM - 912 Service Bulletin (Joe Spencer)
2. 06:20 AM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Jim McBurney)
3. 07:23 AM - Re: Condensation (Jim Fosse)
4. 07:46 AM - Re: LRI Probe Question (cookwithgas)
5. 08:05 AM - Re: 912 Service Bulletin (Mike Fothergill)
6. 08:16 AM - Re: Trailering (cookwithgas)
7. 08:38 AM - (CH-701) Anyone else have edge distance issues with 7F3-3SP (ruruny@aol.com)
8. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Dennis Shoup)
9. 08:45 AM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (ruruny@aol.com)
10. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Trailering (Jaybannist@cs.com)
11. 09:20 AM - 912 Service Bulletin (Joe Spencer)
12. 09:28 AM - Re: Trailering (cookwithgas)
13. 09:35 AM - Re: N701N Completed and Flying (cookwithgas)
14. 09:51 AM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Gig Giacona)
15. 09:54 AM - Re: 912 Service Bulletin (Gig Giacona)
16. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Trailering (Jaybannist@cs.com)
17. 10:29 AM - Re: (CH-701) Anyone else have edge distance issues with 7F3-3SP (John Marzulli)
18. 10:49 AM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (Mack Kreizenbeck)
19. 11:33 AM - 912 Service Bulletin (Joe Spencer)
20. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: instrument panel (Juan Vega)
21. 01:07 PM - Re: *** SPAM *** Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (Malcolm Hunt)
22. 01:18 PM - Another new CH701 builder here (Curt Thompson)
23. 01:21 PM - Re: *** SPAM *** Re: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build kit (Craig Payne)
24. 01:32 PM - Work Table - how level is level enough? (Curt Thompson)
25. 02:07 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (Art Gibeaut)
26. 02:09 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (ashontz)
27. 02:12 PM - Re: Another new CH701 builder here (LarryMcFarland)
28. 02:20 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (ashontz)
29. 02:21 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (LarryMcFarland)
30. 02:22 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (ashontz)
31. 02:25 PM - Re: Condensation (ashontz)
32. 02:31 PM - Re: Another new CH701 builder here (n801bh@netzero.com)
33. 02:32 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (n801bh@netzero.com)
34. 02:43 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (David Downey)
35. 02:57 PM - Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) (The Keeners)
36. 03:52 PM - Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 (Tim Juhl)
37. 04:12 PM - Re: Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) (David Downey)
38. 04:59 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
39. 05:22 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (PatrickW)
40. 05:23 PM - Re: Another new CH701 builder here (Art Olechowski)
41. 05:53 PM - Re: Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) (David Downey)
42. 05:55 PM - Best Tool For Doing Cutouts (Dave VanLanen)
43. 06:45 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (Art Olechowski)
44. 07:32 PM - Re: Best Tool For Doing Cutouts (ROBERT SCEPPA)
45. 07:52 PM - Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) (Christian Tremblay)
46. 08:33 PM - Re: Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) (Terry Turnquist)
47. 09:07 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (Paul Mulwitz)
48. 09:11 PM - Re: Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) (hansriet)
49. 09:42 PM - Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? (JohnDRead@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 912 Service Bulletin |
Anybody seen the latest Rotax Mandatory SB on the 912 mandating changing
out a bunch of gearboxes? Looking for more info here...wondering if this
is just more Rotax hand wringing/liability BS or if this one is real...I
have one that's been in service for 1 Year 2 months with 117 hours on
it. Let's see if there is any factory assistance on it. This is the kind
of BS that drives people out of aviation.
Joe
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
I recommend the rudder workshop for plansbuilders for another reason also:
While there, watch and talk with the folks that are working on parts for the
kits; you can pick up lots of good hints/advice/methods for making various
parts. Also, you'll get a better idea of the techniques they use (i.e., how
they form ribs from flat sheets -- interesting). Check out their welding
shop, too.
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk
90% done, 95% left
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Condensation |
I run a window fan on low speed 7/24. So far it has prevented condensation
forming.
Jim Fosse, N329F
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Probe Question |
Pavel:
I have one on my right wing mounted approximately where the pitot is mounted on
the other wing. I made it exactly to the drawings and it works. I made one
for Ron DeWeese in Georgia and he rounded everything off so it looks better and
his works well also.
I've only had one test flight but will be tweaking some things including the LRI
system on Saturday if we don't get too much snow today. It is pretty cool to
watch the needle rise as you gain speed. Here are a few pictures of my installation:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_1_07_LRI_ASL2.JPG
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_1_07_LRI_ASL.JPG
I made probes for several other builders and some sent me pictures that I posted
here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/LRI.html
You will notice that some are rounded off and some are not.
I'll have more to report after some more flight testing.
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair
Omaha, Nebraska
www.cooknwithgas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157235#157235
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Service Bulletin |
Just check your serial number.
Mike
CH-601HDS
Joe Spencer wrote:
> Anybody seen the latest Rotax Mandatory SB on the 912 mandating changing
> out a bunch of gearboxes? Looking for more info here...wondering if this
> is just more Rotax hand wringing/liability BS or if this one is real...I
> have one that's been in service for 1 Year 2 months with 117 hours on
> it. Let's see if there is any factory assistance on it. This is the kind
> of BS that drives people out of aviation.
> Joe
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Hey Jay:
If you haven't already purchased your trailer, consider your local EAA chapter.
Our chapter in Omaha (EAA chapter 80) has a trailer that is used quite often.
We keep it out at the hangar and it has hauled three projects recently that
have flown for the first time. There are several other members getting close
that have inquired about using the trailer.
If your local chapter does not have a trailer, maybe you could talk them into buying
one. It is a great investment for the chapter since it gets used often.
Here's a picture of ours that I used in May to move my airplane out to the airport:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Finishing/5_5_07_Moving1.JPG
I'd offer to lend it to you but I made the drive from Dallas to Omaha a few weeks
ago and I don't recommend it.
Take care,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157244#157244
Message 7
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| Subject: | (CH-701) Anyone else have edge distance issues with 7F3-3SP |
John,
I don't remember any real issues with this, although I probably looked at it
for quite a long time trying to figure the best way to do this.The rivets are very
close together
but the plans call for this. You can see in the pic, the one rivet is a little
further apart from
the rest so it would line up with other rivets and the other 3 are grouped so I
would not
hit the edge of the top fuselage skin and still had edge distance on the gusset.
It is tight though. Picture attached.
Brian Unruh
Long Island, NY
http://701builder.com
When I drilled out the holes that connect 7F3-3SP with the diagonal tube the
distance between the holes was unacceptable to me......Anyone else have this problem?
I could not find anything in the archives
about it.
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Only if he's Santa Clause.
On Jan 9, 2008 7:20 PM, kmccune <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>
> [Laughing]
>
>
> raymondj(at)frontiernet.n wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> >
> >
> > I heard the "chicks" really dig a fat old guy who scratchbuilt an
> > airplane. :^)
> >
> > Raymond Julian
> > Kettle River, MN
> >
> > "Hope for the best,
> > but prepare for the worst."
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > ---
>
>
> Do not Archive
>
> --------
> Kevin
> N701DZ Reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157101#157101
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Congratulations Jeff,
Good luck on the first flight. She looks beutiful.
Brian Unruh
...My Zenith CH701 received an FAA airworthiness certificate on December 17,
2007 with first flight following on Christmas Day.
________________________________________________________________________
Message 10
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Scott,
That trailer looks ideal. I just couldn't find one like it. I wound up renting
a 24' straight frame trailer with a hydraulic loft gate. We had th squeeze
the main gear about 3" with a ratchet strap to get both wheels on the lift gate.
The photo is not a great one, but it got a little too busy to be taking photos.
Made the 35 mile trip in 1 hr., 20 min., with no damage.
Thanks, Jay
"cookwithgas" <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>Hey Jay:
>
>If you haven't already purchased your trailer, consider your local EAA chapter.
Our chapter in Omaha (EAA chapter 80) has a trailer that is used quite often.
We keep it out at the hangar and it has hauled three projects recently that
have flown for the first time. There are several other members getting close
that have inquired about using the trailer.
>
>If your local chapter does not have a trailer, maybe you could talk them into
buying one. It is a great investment for the chapter since it gets used often.
Here's a picture of ours that I used in May to move my airplane out to the
airport:
>
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Finishing/5_5_07_Moving1.JPG
>
>I'd offer to lend it to you but I made the drive from Dallas to Omaha a few weeks
ago and I don't recommend it.
>
>Take care,
>
>Scott Laughlin
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157244#157244
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | 912 Service Bulletin |
Mike
I do believe you missed the point of the post.
Thanks anyway
Joe
Message 12
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Very Niceah! I like the paint job! Are those stickers or did you paint the decals?
Do you have more pictures? I'd like to see more!
Thanks Jay.
Scott.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157264#157264
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: N701N Completed and Flying |
Congratulations Jeff! Great looking airplane - you should be proud. I was hoping
to see some wheel chocks on those wheels ! [Wink]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157266#157266
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/beachyn701n_129.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
I strongly disagree. The tail is where you need to start. Screw-up are on smaller
pieces and the construction manual which you will still use after you have
made the parts assumes that you build in rudder, horz. stabilizer, wings, fuselage
order.
I do agree about the table though. A good, solid and level table makes all the
difference in the world.
cgbrt(at)mondenet.com wrote:
> Dave
> Wings are a good choice to start.
> Only advise, build a nice level 4'X12' table before you start assembly.
> Carl
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157271#157271
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Service Bulletin |
Note a 912 guy but might your insurance look negatively at you not following a
mandatory SB on the engine in your plane?
jpspencer(at)cableone.net wrote:
> Mike
> I do believe you missed the point of the post.
> Thanks anyway
> Joe
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157272#157272
Message 16
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Scott,
Here are a few more photos. The "stars and bars", letters and nose art are vinyl
decals. The rest of the paint is Rustoleum rattle can. I'll have more photos
as I do the final assembly. The gross photo is what my forearms looked like
throughout the building, especially the fuselage. Thus the name "Lil Bruiser".
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
"cookwithgas" <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>Very Niceah! I like the paint job! Are those stickers or did you paint the decals?
Do you have more pictures? I'd like to see more!
>
>Thanks Jay.
>
>Scott.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157264#157264
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: (CH-701) Anyone else have edge distance issues with 7F3-3SP |
Thanks to everyone for the feedback.
I know that the designer can violate edge and spacing distances, but the
rivet heads would have been overlapping in my case.
The new part I fabricated has about the same spacing as this photo.
Thanks again!
On Jan 10, 2008 8:37 AM, <ruruny@aol.com> wrote:
> John,
>
> I don't remember any real issues with this, although I probably looked at
> it
> for quite a long time trying to figure the best way to do this.The rivets
> are very close together
> but the plans call for this. You can see in the pic, the one rivet is a
> little further apart from
> the rest so it would line up with other rivets and the other 3 are grouped
> so I would not
> hit the edge of the top fuselage skin and still had edge distance on the
> gusset.
> It is tight though. Picture attached.
>
> Brian Unruh
> Long Island, NY
> http://701builder.com
>
> When I drilled out the holes that connect 7F3-3SP with the diagonal tube
> the
> distance between the holes was unacceptable to me......Anyone else have
> this problem?
> I could not find anything in the archives
> about it.
>
> Thanks!
> ------------------------------
> !
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
Larry,
FYI, I built a metal over pole building (hangar) without any insulation 16
years ago. Shortly after completion, I noted moisture condensing and
dripping onto the aircraft during the winter months. There were no leaks
during rain storms nor under melting snow. Water has stained the wood
purlins, etc...
Latter, I found that I should have insulated the interior side of the metal
roof cover at time of construction.
Building scenario: This hangar is constructed in the high desert with lots
of air movement due to small open areas and lack of insulation; painted
asphalt floor and sliding doors -- no windows.
After much discussion with contractors, building suppliers, etc., I
discovered that (wind powered) rotating vent fans, strategically placed,
solved the majority of the problem. Two 12 inch diameter fans takes care of
1600 square feet.
These vents look like pillars with rotating vents -- sticking straight up
from the roof. Senior moment prevents me from remembering the name.
They are popular on commercial buildings, barns, etc...
Mack
601XL/3300
Message 19
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| Subject: | 912 Service Bulletin |
Gig
What insurance?
Joe
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: instrument panel |
Pete,
What Pete is speaking of is that the Ingition system in a Jabiru is Electronic
so you need some protion on the DC output or you will hear like in My radio,
Alternator humming above 75% power throttle setting. With that said, There are
solutions to fixing that problem, (ferite coiling, etc...) The option is
the Microair which on a quality perspect still end up with the same quality on
a lower quality radio stack.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net>
>Sent: Jan 9, 2008 8:18 PM
>To: amyvega2005@earthlink.net
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: instrument panel
>
>Hi Juan,
>
> I am building a 601XL with a Jabiru 3300 and I am in the process of wiring
the panel right now. I installed the Becker combo and Pete Krotje's opinion
of the Becker transceiver is pretty low. That's probably why he's moving his stock
at discount prices. He says that he has a lot of trouble with noise (ignition
noise? maybe strobe noise? he didn't specify) in the Becker radio. What engine
are you running and what is your experienc ewoth your Becker units?
>
>Dred
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Something else to check on your 601XL |
quick build kit
Craig
The height of 6B9-4 was changed in the December 4th 2003 plans revision from
30mm to 35mm but the bolt length remained as AN3-15A and still shows this
bolt on the latest set of plan that I have dated 04/04.
I have used the '17A and it is just right so suggest that you ask Zenith to
mail you 3 of the longer bolts as I consider they should have revised the
bolt length at the time of the change in height of the part.
My 3 penny worth but hope it helps.
Best wishes
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL Plans Builder England
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve" <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:32 PM
Subject: *** SPAM *** Re: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL
quick build kit
>
> Must change...
> Did you get the hole gauge ???
>
> SW
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:21 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build
> kit
>
>
>> On my QBK the central pedal bearing 6B9-4 came installed along with the
>> rudder pedals. I was looking at the lock nuts underneath the fuselage on
>> the
>> three AN3-15A bolts. Normal practice (and the Zenith construction
>> standards,
>> page 31) call for a minimum of two threads to protrude beyond the nut. On
>> my
>> QBK the end of the bolts do not protrude at all. In fact the tips of the
>> bolts are probably recessed by two threads. I don't think any threads
>> engage
>> the Nylon portion of the lock nuts. Although an AN3-16A might meet the
>> spec
>> I think these three bolts would have to be changed to AN3-17A to ensure
>> enough length.
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Another new CH701 builder here |
I'm jumping in! I've been lurking here (and the archives) for a few weeks.
I bought the "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" DVD (highly
recommend the DVD). I've decided to "plans build" a CH701. I plan to buy
some of the parts that I don't want to make. I turned some (wooden)
flanging dies on my father lathe a few weeks ago. I knocked out the wall
behind the garage to make more room. I painted, added some more lights, and
cleaned things up. I've built a 4ft x 16ft work table. I'm currently
organizing my tools on a peg-board. I think I already have most of the
tools I will need for this. I ordered the plans several weeks ago but they
apparently have not shipped - it appears that ZAC is really busy.
I've been an avionics engineer most of my career and really like to make
things. I've built many radio controlled airplanes over the years. I got
my PPL last year. Looking forward to this.
Curt
Redmond, WA, USA
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Something else to check on your 601XL |
quick build kit
Thanks. The 03/06 plans also show it as AN6-15A with the block being 35 mm
tall.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Hunt
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** Re: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your
601XL quick build kit
<malcolmhunt@mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Craig
The height of 6B9-4 was changed in the December 4th 2003 plans revision from
30mm to 35mm but the bolt length remained as AN3-15A and still shows this
bolt on the latest set of plan that I have dated 04/04.
I have used the '17A and it is just right so suggest that you ask Zenith to
mail you 3 of the longer bolts as I consider they should have revised the
bolt length at the time of the change in height of the part.
My 3 penny worth but hope it helps.
Best wishes
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL Plans Builder England
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve" <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:32 PM
Subject: *** SPAM *** Re: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL
quick build kit
>
> Must change...
> Did you get the hole gauge ???
>
> SW
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:21 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Something else to check on your 601XL quick build
> kit
>
>
>> On my QBK the central pedal bearing 6B9-4 came installed along with the
>> rudder pedals. I was looking at the lock nuts underneath the fuselage on
>> the
>> three AN3-15A bolts. Normal practice (and the Zenith construction
>> standards,
>> page 31) call for a minimum of two threads to protrude beyond the nut. On
>> my
>> QBK the end of the bolts do not protrude at all. In fact the tips of the
>> bolts are probably recessed by two threads. I don't think any threads
>> engage
>> the Nylon portion of the lock nuts. Although an AN3-16A might meet the
>> spec
>> I think these three bolts would have to be changed to AN3-17A to ensure
>> enough length.
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Work Table - how level is level enough? |
I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:
http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf
I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"
over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good
enough or should I try to tweak it more.
Curt
p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built
the table.
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
I built the same table last March as a 4x12, and got the same general variations.
Have now completed both wings and I have no "twist" in either one. One note,
recheck the table for flat and level between wings. Mine had changed a small
amount requiring some shims, maybe due to seasonal changes. Good luck
Art Gibeaut
Erie, IL
CH701 Wings and tail done.
--- On Thu, 1/10/08, Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
> From: Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Work Table - how level is level enough?
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, January 10, 2008, 3:29 PM
> I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following
> the plans here:
> http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf
>
> I have a "water level" and it appears that it is
> level to better than 1/4"
> over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about
> 1/8". Is this good
> enough or should I try to tweak it more.
>
> Curt
>
> p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my
> garage until I built
> the table.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
I'd say it's in the air, not the floor. If it's really cold for awhile and everything
in the hanger is cold and then all of a sudden it gets warm, the new warm
air is going to condense on anything that's still cold. Probably best to seal
any drafts in the hanger. The floor is probably not holding that much moisture,
it's the warm air that gets in the hanger after a cold spell (or should I
say during a warm spell) that's causing the condensation. Takes pretty extreme
conditions too. About 9 years ago I got rust all over my tools in my garage,
particularly large power tools that acted as a large heat sink, when the weather
suddenly went from bitterly cold to like 60 degrees or so for a few days.
You figure worse yet is all the airspace INSIDE the plane structure, like in the
wings. In that case, I'd say your better off covering the entire plane to reduce
the chance of air exchange on and inside the airframe.
No different from a fuel tank that over time "gets water in the fuel." It's getting
water in the fuel from cold/warm/cold cycles condensing water in the tank.
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> On checking the hangar during this latest winter thaw, I realized my
> aircraft was literally dripping on all the undersides. Actually, the
> condensate was everywhere. I wiped the plane down, but seriously doubt
> that would help. In conversation with another builder, he?d heard
> putting a plastic sheet over the concrete floor in an unheated hangar
> would help prevent humidity from rising from the dirt and concrete and
> condensing on the plane?s surfaces. I?m not a weatherman, and only have
> a vague idea of what?s actually going on. There are probably many of us
> looking for a better solution to this. Are there any good suggestions or
> practices regarding covering a plane or the floor, or both during these
> wet periods?
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157306#157306
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| Subject: | Re: Another new CH701 builder here |
Welcome Curt,
Sounds like you've got a head start on things. Plans building is
challenging, but great fun.
As one of the completed project scratch builders, I'll be interested in
hearing of your progress
along the way. The 701 is an interesting aircraft from that perspective.
Three 701s are in my
immediate area and one has been flying for a year now with a Stratus Subaru.
Good luck and do stay in touch,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Curt Thompson wrote:
>
> Im jumping in! Ive been lurking here (and the archives) for a few
> weeks. I bought the Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft DVD
> (highly recommend the DVD). Ive decided to plans build a CH701. I
> plan to buy some of the parts that I dont want to make. I turned some
> (wooden) flanging dies on my father lathe a few weeks ago. I knocked
> out the wall behind the garage to make more room. I painted, added
> some more lights, and cleaned things up. Ive built a 4ft x 16ft work
> table. Im currently organizing my tools on a peg-board. I think I
> already have most of the tools I will need for this. I ordered the
> plans several weeks ago but they apparently have not shipped it
> appears that ZAC is really busy.
>
> Ive been an avionics engineer most of my career and really like to
> make things. Ive built many radio controlled airplanes over the
> years. I got my PPL last year. Looking forward to this.
>
> Curt
>
> Redmond, WA, USA
>
> *
> *
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
I like this idea too.
macleod(at)eagle.ca wrote:
> Larry:
>
> As others have noted, if the temperature of the plane skins go below the
> dew point (ie cold plane & warm moist air) then you will get condensation
> on the plane (probably inside and outside). I am a metallurgical engineer
> and can assure you that the plane's materials can easily take this wetness
> without any ill effects. Venting the hanger will certainly help but
> perhaps an easier solution would be to just put light bulbs in the plane
> (one in each wing root and one in the fuse). That should be enough to
> keep the interior and the outer surfaces above the dew point. I do this
> in my unheated garage more for piece of mind with the electronics than
> anything else. You only need to turn them on during the kind of weather
> we have had in the past few days (sudden warming where the moist outside
> air is much warmer than the temperature inside the hanger or if there is a
> chance of fog).
>
> Turned colder today so I turned the lights off.
>
> I use 60 watt bulbs.
>
> Mike
> 601XL waiting patiently for the Rotax FWFwd
>
>
> > Are there any good suggestions or
> > practices regarding covering a plane or the floor, or both during these
> > wet periods?
> >
> > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157311#157311
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
Curt,
Flat is probably more important here and the 1/8" irregularity of your
surface will average out fine.
The level condition is one you can shim to when it becomes necessary to
"go level". This is only
necessary sometimes when you're making structural assy alignments. Tip:
go for level once and make
shims that you can place under the table casters and otherwise hang
shims on the nail of the legs that
need them.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Curt Thompson wrote:
> I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:
> http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf
>
> I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"
> over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good
> enough or should I try to tweak it more.
>
> Curt
>
> p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built
> the table.
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
Sounds fine. You're going to be building the wing on shims anyway due to the curvature
and the clecoes when you're done the first side so level up the wing structure
on the shims then. Even so, the more level the table the easier it is
to work on in general for all kinds of stuff.
Curt.Thompson(at)verizon. wrote:
> I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:
> http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf
>
> I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"
> over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good
> enough or should I try to tweak it more.
>
> Curt
>
> p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built
> the table.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157314#157314
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| Subject: | Re: Condensation |
I've never had a humidity meter (I forget the actual name) in my garage, but after
painting the floor, it just seemed less humid. Could have been the unpainted
floor. Painted floors just look nice too. Can't be it for $50 from Home Depot,
including sprinkles no less, although I couldn't find the sprinkles at Home
Depot, they didn't carry them, Lowes did.
Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> Larry,
>
> In my experience, I have found that there are many causes of wet concrete slabs.
In mysterious instances, a concrete slab will attract moisture even where
there seems to be none. Moisture barriers are not always used, because it keeps
the freshly placed concrete from giving up its moisture uniformly through the
top and bottom, resulting in slab curling. To get around this, sometimes there
is a moisture barrier and a layer of sand on top of it to promote proper drying
of the slab. But a concrete slab with no moisture barrier beneath it might
result in a damp slab, but not necessarily a damp atmosphere. Condensation
on objects above the slab result from a very damp atmosphere and very cold temperatures.
The real cure is interior climate control, but as has been previously
suggested, ventilation is the most expedient cure. I would try that first.
>
> Jay in Dallas (Retired Architect)
> 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157317#157317
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| Subject: | Re: Another new CH701 builder here |
Welcome Curt.
This list will be a great source for advice, comments and general cheerl
eading throughout your building process. It sounds lke you have configur
ed your shop area correctly. Building a plane is a big adventure, flying
it for the first time is "Priceless"
do not archive and welcome to the group
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Curt Thompson" <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
I=92m jumping in! I=92ve been lurking here (and the archives) for a few
weeks. I bought the =93Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft=94 D
VD (highly recommend the DVD). I=92ve decided to =93plans build=94 a CH
701. I plan to buy some of the parts that I don=92t want to make. I tu
rned some (wooden) flanging dies on my father lathe a few weeks ago. I
knocked out the wall behind the garage to make more room. I painted, ad
ded some more lights, and cleaned things up. I=92ve built a 4ft x 16ft
work table. I=92m currently organizing my tools on a peg-board. I thin
k I already have most of the tools I will need for this. I ordered the
plans several weeks ago but they apparently have not shipped ' it appe
ars that ZAC is really busy.
I=92ve been an avionics engineer most of my career and really like to ma
ke things. I=92ve built many radio controlled airplanes over the years.
I got my PPL last year. Looking forward to this.
Curt
Redmond, WA, USA
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
===
_____________________________________________________________
Click now for great GMAT prep courses and watch your scores soar!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4s4ZcacE0wB94CC0vQI
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
Flatness is more importent then level, if you are within 1/8" you are go
ing to be in great shape for all the sub assemblies built on it. Enjoy
the process.. !!!
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Curt Thompson" <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:
http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf
I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/
4"
over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good
enough or should I try to tweak it more.
Curt
p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I buil
t
the table.
_____________________________________________________________
Start a career as a pharmacy assistant. Click here for more information
.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vg0IVPvbKuTdKA1gno
IWTPU7eVUeeKRY28drhYyAblyhYTY/
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
my opinion only:
Assuming that you have a usefully stiff deck on the table, I think that the table
needs to be flat within a 1/16" or less over the length and no measurable
twist or warp in the short direction.
For a sheet metal or wooden plane I do not think level is real important.
Make sure that you have enough legs to adequately overcome any table related
flatness issues. One way to manage the final positoin requirements is to mix bondo
or something similar and glob it around the point where the bottom of the
legs all contact the floor/shim. In the case where the table bows up, shim to
flat withbags of cement/equivalent as ballast. When the bondo cures thetable
will stay where you put it.
Caveat: if the slab or deck the table is mounted to the tablel will move with
it - so keep that inmind as you set it and tend to forget it; re-establishing
flat is a periodic and important task. The Bondo simply breaks from the floor
with a light side impact or two from a sledge hammer and the setting can be corrected
with more shims, less shims, and a new blob of bondo.
Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:
http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf
I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"
over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good
enough or should I try to tweak it more.
Curt
p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built
the table.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) |
Dear Listers:
I'm trying to finish up my elevator on the Zodiac. The shape of the
elevator trim tab supplied with the tail kit looks oval when looking at
it from the side. The plans/pix show a triangular shape. Has anyone
else encountered this? I don't have a bending brake, so I don't think
I'll try to fix this on my own. The oval shape (vs. the triangular
shape) will not allow for rivets to fit where you attach the hinge.
Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Thank you.
Forest K., Rocklin, CA
Trying to finish elevator/Wing Kit in garage
N601FK (Reserved)
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar condensate and my 601 |
Our airport recently built two rows of T hangars with concrete floors and bifold
doors.
In the spring every hangar occupant was complaining about the condensation problem
you mention. My Champ was literally dripping and everything in the hangar
was wet. It was simply the interaction of a cold steel structure with slightly
warmer moist air. The solution was that we cut holes near the top of the adjoining
walls in each hangar and on the end of the hangars installed large vent
fans controlled by a humidistat. When the humidity rose near the condensation
point the fans turned on and moved the air around.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157336#157336
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) |
Hi Forrest;
can you send an image of the end of the folded part with a 6 inch scale in it?
That will help make sure that we are on the same page.
Dear Listers:
I'm trying to finish up my elevator on the Zodiac. The shape of the
elevator trim tab supplied with the tail kit looks oval when looking at
it from the side. The plans/pix show a triangular shape. Has anyone
else encountered this? I don't have a bending brake, so I don't think
I'll try to fix this on my own. The oval shape (vs. the triangular
shape) will not allow for rivets to fit where you attach the hinge.
Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Thank you.
Forest K., Rocklin, CA
Trying to finish elevator/Wing Kit in garage
N601FK (Reserved)
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
I spent 40 bucks and bought 2 4x4x12 1/4 inch thick angle and when you build
the wings they work great on the table because you don't have to worry about
shims under the wing because the front and rear spars are resting on the
angle. All you have to do is level the angle and the table didn't matter. It is
a pain in the ass to work on the wing while they are sitting on blocks on the
table, on the angle they don't move.
Then the angle was used to build a fixture to build the plane on until I
installed the mains.
Jeff
1 601xl flying W/Corvair
1 601xl going to paint tomorrow W/Corvair
1 601xl ready for turtle deck Corvair built ready to install
1 601xl on order Corvair being built
Finishing them all.......Priceless!!!!!
In a message dated 1/10/2008 2:44:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
planecrazydld@yahoo.com writes:
Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:
http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf
I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"
over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good
enough or should I try to tweak it more.
Curt
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
Try to get it as level as you can. When your table is level, then it can be used
as a "reference" when you want the bottom and the top of workpieces to be level.
Like putting a level across the top of a fuselage section, for example.
You'll already know the bottom piece that's resting on the table is level...
Once you've got it as level as you can, you can test for flatness with marbles.
All that being said, it doesn't have to be perfect. Anybody with the ambition
to even think about building an airplane will probably do a pretty good job of
making a workbench, and it's probably going to be good enough for our low-mach
aircraft. :-)
Patrick
XL/Corvair
N63PZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157351#157351
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| Subject: | Re: Another new CH701 builder here |
Curt,
Great to hear that someone else is joining the journey of scratch-building the
701 and
coincidentally with the same career. I plan to also purchase some of the parts
from Zenith such
as the hardware kit, windshield, bubble doors and possibly the main gear. I have
the plans and
I'm currently procuring tools and materials.
do not archive
Art
--- Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
> I'm jumping in! I've been lurking here (and the archives) for a few weeks.
> I bought the "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" DVD (highly
> recommend the DVD). I've decided to "plans build" a CH701. I plan to buy
> some of the parts that I don't want to make. I turned some (wooden)
> flanging dies on my father lathe a few weeks ago. I knocked out the wall
> behind the garage to make more room. I painted, added some more lights, and
> cleaned things up. I've built a 4ft x 16ft work table. I'm currently
> organizing my tools on a peg-board. I think I already have most of the
> tools I will need for this. I ordered the plans several weeks ago but they
> apparently have not shipped - it appears that ZAC is really busy.
>
> I've been an avionics engineer most of my career and really like to make
> things. I've built many radio controlled airplanes over the years. I got
> my PPL last year. Looking forward to this.
>
> Curt
> Redmond, WA, USA
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) |
forgot to verify if it was an XL. I do not see any useful resources on the old
Zodiac on the Zenith site...
Dear Listers:
I'm trying to finish up my elevator on the Zodiac. The shape of the
elevator trim tab supplied with the tail kit looks oval when looking at
it from the side. The plans/pix show a triangular shape. Has anyone
else encountered this? I don't have a bending brake, so I don't think
I'll try to fix this on my own. The oval shape (vs. the triangular
shape) will not allow for rivets to fit where you attach the hinge.
Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Thank you.
Forest K., Rocklin, CA
Trying to finish elevator/Wing Kit in garage
N601FK (Reserved)
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Best Tool For Doing Cutouts |
What are other builders finding as the best tool for doing cutouts, such as
access holes, trim tab cutouts, etc.? I do not use the Wiss snips because
they tend to stretch the metal. I have an OLFA knife, which works great
when cutting out flat stock, where the material can be backed up, but I
can't figure out how to safely use it on a structure where the material
cannot easily be backed up. I am currently using a Dremel tool with a
cutting disk. It works well but it is risky, as the cutting wheel can
"catch" on the material. This happened to me today, and put a slight
abrasion on the skin - luckily it was not serious.
Any advice would be appreciated, even if it means I gotta buy another tool.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
601XL - Elevator
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
Curt,
As most have mentioned flatness is a necessity as well as checking for twist lengthwise.
One
simple method to confirm this is by tightly criss-crossing two strings at some
consistent height
from corner to corner over the length of the table and measuring the space at the
intersection of
the strings. How much of a gap is acceptable? Hell I don't know, I just made it
as small possible
(strings attempting to slightly diverge each other).
Art
Scratch'in 701
--- Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
> I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:
> http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf
>
> I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"
> over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good
> enough or should I try to tweak it more.
>
> Curt
>
> p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built
> the table.
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Best Tool For Doing Cutouts |
> I'm using a stepdrill to start the hole, then use
> aviation snips. If thats too tough, then use a
> series of small holes with a drill bit close to the
> edge, then use a file to finish it....Do not archive
--- Dave VanLanen <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> What are other builders finding as the best tool for
> doing cutouts, such as
> access holes, trim tab cutouts, etc.? I do not use
> the Wiss snips because
> they tend to stretch the metal. I have an OLFA
> knife, which works great
> when cutting out flat stock, where the material can
> be backed up, but I
> can't figure out how to safely use it on a structure
> where the material
> cannot easily be backed up. I am currently using a
> Dremel tool with a
> cutting disk. It works well but it is risky, as the
> cutting wheel can
> "catch" on the material. This happened to me today,
> and put a slight
> abrasion on the skin - luckily it was not serious.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated, even if it means I
> gotta buy another tool.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Van Lanen
> 601XL - Elevator
>
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| Subject: | Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud) |
Dave,
The question of scratch build is not only a question of money. It's involve
a lot of effort, not only on tool fabrication and investment on equipment,
but also on studying more deeper technical skill. Those kind of project take
also more time investment and also more satisfaction in the building
process. Visit my web site to understand some implication of this kind of
project.
Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de DaveC
Envoy: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 2:14 PM
: zenith-list@matronics.com
Objet: Zenith-List: Why Scratch Build (a newbie wonders out loud)
Simple question I am pondering. Should I scratch build or kit build? I don't
know enough yet to make that decision, so I thought I would ask those who
had finished their pondering.
I mean, scratch building takes a lot longer for sure.
So... why do it that way? [Rolling Eyes]
Is it a pride thing?
A personal learning thing?
A climb the mountain 'because it is there' thing?
Is it that much cheaper?
--------
Dave
Alvin, Texas
CH-701 wanna-be-soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156771#156771
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) |
David, you might try to square up the flat surfaces of the trim flap by placing
a piece of flat stock on the rounded surface and compress carefully on your
workbench or table with a couple of large c-clamps. You should be able to finesse
it into shape.
Terry Turnquist
601XL-Plans
David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote: forgot to verify if it was an XL.
I do not see any useful resources on the old Zodiac on the Zenith site...
Dear Listers:
I'm trying to finish up my elevator on the Zodiac. The shape of the
elevator trim tab supplied with the tail kit looks oval when looking at
it from the side. The plans/pix show a triangular shape. Has anyone
else encountered this? I don't have a bending brake, so I don't think
I'll try to fix this on my own. The oval shape (vs. the triangular
shape) will not allow for rivets to fit where you attach the hinge.
Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Thank you.
Forest K., Rocklin, CA
Trying to finish elevator/Wing Kit in garage
N601FK
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
Hi Curt,
After several missteps, I made what I think is the ideal workbench
for building airplanes. The top is flat to within 1 mm across the
entire work surface. Oddly, the work surface is not a normal table
top. Rather it is an array of wood 2x4s with their top edges aligned
with each.
Here is a picture of the bench in use on a Zodiac XL wing.
[]
The procedure for making the bench started with a normal particle
board top 4x12 table reinforced with various strips of wood
underneath including full length 2x4s. Then the top 2x4's are laid
across the bench and their position marked.
A laser level was used to make the ultra-flat working surface. First
the laser level was used to project a beam over the top of the
2.4's. A white ruler was used to measure the distance from the laser
beam to the table top and the distance marked on the table. 4 or 5
measurements were taken along the length of each 2x4. Then shims
were cut from wood on a table saw. After doing a little
arithmetic (subtracting a constant from each measurement) a shim
matching the required adjustment was placed at each measurement
location under the 2x4. Then each 2x4 was glued and bolted to the
particle board top.
The notches near the ends of the 2x4s are used to allow normal length
screws to hold the 2x4 to the table. You can also see some small
blocks screwed to the top of some of the 2x4s to fix the wing
position so you can work on it without it moving.
One final step was to mark the leg locations on the shop floor. This
allows the table to be returned to the place where the measurements
were made if it is moved. The marking is just a matter of using a
rattle can of spray paint around each leg on the floor.
This sounds complicated, but you can probably build such a table top
faster than you can read this explanation. You get a nearly perfect
work surface for building your parts. The elevated work surface
allows Clecos to be installed while still maintaining the flat work surface.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 01:29 PM 1/10/2008, you wrote:
>I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"
>over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good
>enough or should I try to tweak it more.
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac Elevator Trim Tab (kit) |
I had the same problem with the aileron trim tab. The horn in my hand didn't resemble
the drawing at all. Called Zenith and Caleb emailed me a new drawing right
away. They changed the horn slightly. This might be the case with the elevator
as well. Best to give them a call.
Hans
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157392#157392
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| Subject: | Re: Work Table - how level is level enough? |
Hi Curt:
Check in the Zenith Construction Standards - there is a
suggestion as to how flat or twisted aircraft components should be. I would make
the
bench flat to half that amount to give a little margin. Level is not so much
an issue.
do not archive
John Read
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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