---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/13/08: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:01 AM - Re: Inspection Checklist (Gary Gower) 2. 05:06 AM - Re: Inspection Checklist (David Downey) 3. 07:17 AM - Repairman Certificate hoops (Ron DeWees) 4. 09:28 AM - Re: Inspection Checklist (Dan) 5. 10:22 AM - vw engine (Bill Flick) 6. 01:01 PM - cable corrosion (Dave and Pam Fisher) 7. 01:49 PM - [ Randall J Hebert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 8. 01:51 PM - [ Ron Steele ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 9. 05:17 PM - Aileron Trim Tab Length for 601XL (Terry Phillips) 10. 05:23 PM - Alternator Radio Noise (James Sagerser) 11. 06:46 PM - Brake/rudder pedal assembly (Darrell Haas) 12. 06:57 PM - Re: Brake/rudder pedal assembly (Jaybannist@cs.com) 13. 06:57 PM - New video on Stolspeed (kmccune) 14. 07:01 PM - Fw: Strobe noise/alt noise (Mark Sherman) 15. 07:05 PM - Re: Inspection Checklist (Michael French) 16. 08:22 PM - Second Flight - Rudder Cam (Scott Laughlin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:49 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection Checklist What we do, is that in each page of the contruction manual (the printed photo one) we hand print the date we finished each step in that page, in the upper corner. Same did when we built the 701. At the beguining of the 701 project, we used to put the time involved (hour or fraction) in each step-page, but was very dificult sometimes to remember to see the watch... We finaly decided to record in a personal page, the time we spended (individualy) each day (efective work, no visits or day dreaming :-), that gives us a close estimate of the time and hours invested. We make teams of two (in fact now two teams: Larry & Carlos and Me & Gary Jr), masters and helpers :-) Also I am elected the "Project Manager", this is to read the manual and plans a few steps in advance to have everything ready and explain to "the Teams". All parts to use in the day, are located and get ready in the first minutes of each working day. Each one of us decides one day at a time, what music we are going to hear while building. Soft drinks and snacks costs are devided in four, sometimes the visitors bring them, so we save some cash ;-) Fun and Team work is responsability of all of us :-) Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. 701 912S Now building the 601 XL, Jabiru 3300 . Bill Naumuk wrote: Dan- There's a checklist at the start of each section of my 601HDS manual. Wonder if that's what he's talking about? Definitely chickenshit, because you could check things off before you ever completed them! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan" Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:02 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection Checklist > > All: Yesterday I went to get my Repairman Inspection Authorization from > the local FSDO. This took over an hour for some reason. Anyway while I > was there, he asked if I had a construction checklist for my airplane > (701). He said Zenith should have provided or made available one. > Apparently this checklist is something you sign or check off each time you > complete an assembly. I can find no such thing. Does anyone have a clue > what he was talking about? > > Also he pointed out some errors my DAR made when he issued my Special > Airworthiness Certificate. Hopefully that will not come back to bite me > somehow. > I did receive my Inspection Authorization but it appears the FAA could use > some better organization to speed up the process. It is totally asinine > the amount of nitpicking they do or at least are required to do. > > Dan Wilde > > > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:29 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection Checklist Hi Dan; Perhaps he is referring to the FAA Form 8000-38 Fabrication/Assembly Operation Checklist. I attached a copy of the form. All: Yesterday I went to get my Repairman Inspection Authorization from the local FSDO. This took over an hour for some reason. Anyway while I was there, he asked if I had a construction checklist for my airplane (701). He said Zenith should have provided or made available one. Apparently this checklist is something you sign or check off each time you complete an assembly. I can find no such thing. Does anyone have a clue what he was talking about? Also he pointed out some errors my DAR made when he issued my Special Airworthiness Certificate. Hopefully that will not come back to bite me somehow. I did receive my Inspection Authorization but it appears the FAA could use some better organization to speed up the process. It is totally asinine the amount of nitpicking they do or at least are required to do. Dan Wilde Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:45 AM PST US From: Ron DeWees Subject: Zenith-List: Repairman Certificate hoops Hi Dan, I went thru something similar getting my Repairman's Certificate for my HDS a few years ago. I thought I followed all the rules and dotted all the "T's" and crossed the "I's" ; ) when I had my MIDO office come out and sign off my plane. There were no hitches and it was mostly paperwork. They even brought out 5 folks and made it a field trip since most were new to field inspections. I got my Airworthiness Certificate ok. I did not know I could ask and they didn't mention or know that they can process the Repairman's Certificate paperwork at the same time. Almost a year later I had to lug logs, construction data, receipts and everything to the FAA office here in Atlanta. I went thru the worst security check I have ever been through including shoes off, metal detector, assigned guard to accompany me to the rest room, etc. After an hour they located somebody that know what a Repairman's Certificate was and the process went well from there and I got the temporary certificate so I could do my annual. In contrast to this experience which was "free" from the FAA, one of our field's prolific builders has completed 3 planes while I have been based there. His DAR's inspection fee is $600 but for another $50 he does the paperwork for the Repairman's Certificate at the same time. Permanent paperwork arrives in a few weeks. He says the money is worth it because of the convenience and I tend to agree, looking back. If your Dar or FAA passes your airframe ask them to do the paperwork for the Repairman's Certificate at the same time. I doubt many of us will see many "real" FAA people in the field since Light Sport and "fat ultralight" certification has emerged and it would be a huge job to do even a small percentage of the inspections that are applied for these days. I was told that they can't turn down an inspection but could easily set the date for 6 months later. Good luck and hopefully this will help someone not yet thru the inspection phase. BTW nobody from the FAA mentioned a builder's checklist and they hardly glanced at my EAA tech counselor's inspection notes and signoffs. Ron N601HS > do not archive > > Time: 12:57:20 PM PST US > From: Dan > Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection Checklist > > > All: Yesterday I went to get my Repairman Inspection Authorization from > the local FSDO. This took over an hour for some reason. > __snip__ > > Also he pointed out some errors my DAR made when he issued my Special > Airworthiness Certificate. Hopefully that will not come back to bite me > somehow. > > I did receive my Inspection Authorization but it appears the FAA could > use some better organization to speed up the process. It is totally > asinine the amount of nitpicking they do or at least are required to do. > > Dan Wilde > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:47 AM PST US From: Dan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection Checklist To Christian and others. Thank you for the information. The inspector was the first time I had heard of this checklist and it sounds like a good idea, just a little late in my case. I used the assembly manuals as a check and simply put them in a 3 ring binder when I had completed each section. Hopefully this information may help others earlier in the building process. Dan Wilde Christian Tremblay wrote: > > *Hi Dan,* > > * * > > *I got IPLs (Inspection Part List) sheets for my own plane CH640. > It's a current process in the aeronautical and other industries for > insure good process assembly. I find mine on Zenith Web Site. Look for > yours. I attach one file example of mine to this email to show you > what's it's look like.* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *Christian Tremblay* > > *A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan* > > *http://www.zodiac640.com/* > > * * > > *-* > > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * * > > * * > > * * > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:52 AM PST US From: "Bill Flick" Subject: Zenith-List: vw engine is anyone useing a vw 2.1 watterboxer engine or the 2400-2600 type iv vw eng or does anyone have any info on them? thanks bill ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:03 PM PST US From: Dave and Pam Fisher Subject: Zenith-List: cable corrosion Hi Joe, I bought a wrecked plane for parts and found the previous owner had run the rudder cables through tight fitting nylon tubing instead of using fair leads. The mod appeared to have worked well enough in service but when I removed the cables from the tubing they were covered with white zinc corrosion. I considered a similar installation using stainless cable but Chris Heintz advised against it because water in the cable housing could freeze and lock up the cable. That said, I've used short lengths of larger loose fitting tubing ( 3/8 in.) for fair leads at different places for my stainless cable. Hope this helps. Dave, 701 with A80-8 Continental - still building At 12:58 AM 1/13/2008, you wrote: >From: "Joe Spencer" >Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Elevator Cable Balancing > >Instead of the bungee(which I think is to keep the cables from rubbing >together??) I slipped a long length of vinyl tubing over one of the >cables and then just let them rub. I will inspect that cable for >corrosion under the tubing annually but don't really expect to find any. >I also put a rub guard on the lower crossmember you mention. I am >running my down cable as loose as I can stand it to avoid binding with >right aileron application, particularly with flaps extended. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [ Randall J Hebert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Randall J Hebert Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Definition of Tools (Humor) http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/randy@rjhebertassoc.com.01.13.2008/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:09 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [ Ron Steele ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Ron Steele Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Steering Linkage plate to seal firewall on 601XL Quickbuild Kit http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rsteele@rjsit.com.01.13.2008/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:26 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim Tab Length for 601XL I am about to close up my ailerons. My next step will be to install the electric aileron trim tab kit. I have a couple of questions for those who are already flying with the trim tab option. 1. The 535-mm length of the trim tab seems pretty long to me. I'm wondering whether that long tab gives too much trim authority. My question to those already flying with the trim tab is, "how much of the available servo travel do you use in practice? Is it only +/-1 or 2 marks on the 10-mark trim indicator, or do you sometimes go all the way to, say, +/-4 or even 5 marks?" 2. Dwg. 6-ATO-1 shows the tab on the left aileron. However, I think I remember a recent post suggesting that the predominant trim requirement is to correct a "heavy" left wing. IIRC, the same post suggested that applying trim downward on the right aileron would be more effective than the equivalent upward trim on the left aileron. That makes sense to me, assuming that the predominant requirement is to raise the left wing. My second question for trim tab users is, "Do you most often trim to raise the left wing?" Thanks for sharing your experience. If anyone else has an opinion whether a trim tab into the high pressure flow under the wing would actually create less drag than the equivalent trim from a tab raised into the low pressure flow on top of the opposite wing, that would be of interest. Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Alternator Radio Noise From: James Sagerser I have a late model Jabiru 3300 engine which is producing a loud alternator whine through my Val Com 760 radio. I've researched the archives and have tried a 22000uf, computer grade (nut terminals) capacitor but it's made little difference. I connected the positive terminal of the capacitor to the same place my feed wires (red & yellow) from the regulator attach to the positive battery terminal on my starter contactor. I ran the negative to ground. Very little difference. The noise is so loud it very annoying. I can disconnect the red & yellow wires from the hot side of the starter contactor and it is dead quiet so am pretty sure the whine (increases in pitch with rpm) is from the alternator. I am out of ideas. What am I missing (other that a good radio)? Is there another radio noise filter that I should be using? Has anyone tried the SMOOTHIE BRICKWALL NOISE FILTER from Spruce? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/smoothieFilter2.php ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:57 PM PST US From: "Darrell Haas" Subject: Zenith-List: Brake/rudder pedal assembly I'm working on a 601XL fuselage kit and I can't find the brake/rudder pedal assembly in the box. Does anyone recall if they had to order it separate from the regular fuse kit. I bought this kit from a friend and not straight from Zac. I know that there is an option to make it both left and right brakes instead of just the pilots. Thanks, Darrell 601 XL do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:12 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Brake/rudder pedal assembly Darrell, The rudder pedal assembly and at least one brake assembly should have come with the fuselage kit. Jay in Dallas 601XL N2639J "Lil Bruiser" "Darrell Haas" wrote: >I'm working on a 601XL fuselage kit and I can't find the brake/rudder pedal >assembly in the box. Does anyone recall if they had to order it separate >from the regular fuse kit. I bought this kit from a friend and not straight >from Zac. I know that there is an option to make it both left and right >brakes instead of just the pilots. >Thanks, >Darrell >601 XL >do not archive > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: New video on Stolspeed From: "kmccune" http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=STOLSPEED Hey, I'm just the messenger :) -------- Kevin N701DZ Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157904#157904 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:33 PM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: Strobe noise/alt noise James. This is an old post to the list I found. This noise filter will work for your alt. noise also. Mark S. I did some looking at Radio Shacks web site and found that they have discontinued the noise filter 270-051 with no replacement part. I found the same part at Parts Express (www.partsexpress.com) under the part number 265-042. Worked great on my Val-Com radio. Search the Aero Electric list for my name and you will find all the info when I had my problem. Mark Sherman 701/912 __________________________________________________ http://mail.yahoo.com Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:05 PM PST US From: Michael French Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inspection Checklist You will find the construction checklist provided in the Zenith Buiders Manual with a list of assembly steps for each phase. There are also places for your signature and the inspectors. Michael French David Downey wrote: Hi Dan; Perhaps he is referring to the FAA Form 8000-38 Fabrication/Assembly Operation Checklist. I attached a copy of the form. All: Yesterday I went to get my Repairman Inspection Authorization from the local FSDO. This took over an hour for some reason. Anyway while I was there, he asked if I had a construction checklist for my airplane (701). He said Zenith should have provided or made available one. Apparently this checklist is something you sign or check off each time you complete an assembly. I can find no such thing. Does anyone have a clue what he was talking about? Also he --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:00 PM PST US From: Scott Laughlin Subject: Zenith-List: Second Flight - Rudder Cam Hi guys: This evening N5SL had her second flight with the rudder cam up and running. The test pilot noted several things common with other 601XL's such as the heavy left wing, very sensitive pitch and not enough elevator trim for a h ands off approach with full flaps. All small items that didn't spoil the f lying. It was a fantastic day with the sun coming out just long enough for us to get some time flown off to chip away at the 40 hours. The engine is still tight and top speed is indicating in the low 110's (MPH). I expect that to change after several hours of break-in time and maybe some tweaking of the prop pitch. The best news is that I got it all on video from the rudder and now I have to figure out how to format it so I can share it (It was recorded on a DVD recorder). I hope to get it up on YouTube and on my website in a few days . It's not as shaky as the first video. Have a great week, Scott Laughlin Omaha, Nebraska www.cooknwithgas.com _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120 08 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.