Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help (kmccune)
2. 04:59 AM - Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Ashcraft, Keith -AES)
3. 05:03 AM - Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (ashontz)
4. 05:18 AM - rudder position light (chris Sinfield)
5. 05:36 AM - Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Randall J. Hebert)
6. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Electric rivet gun? ()
7. 05:51 AM - Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help (Bryan Ekholm)
8. 05:52 AM - Re: Electronic oil pressure switch (Martin Pohl)
9. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (William Dominguez)
10. 06:26 AM - Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (cookwithgas)
11. 06:34 AM - Flight Report and Question-701 (Joe Spencer)
12. 07:03 AM - Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (ashontz)
13. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Curt Thompson)
14. 07:23 AM - Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Curt Thompson)
15. 07:33 AM - Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Curt Thompson)
16. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? Router cutting blanks (MacDonald Doug)
17. 09:19 AM - Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (cookwithgas)
18. 09:44 AM - Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks and router templates (Keith Ashcraft)
19. 09:48 AM - Re: Flight Report and Question-701 (Les Goldner)
20. 10:58 AM - Re: rudder position light (Juan Vega)
21. 11:10 AM - Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Peter Fox)
22. 12:06 PM - New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! (Bill Berle)
23. 12:33 PM - Re: New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! (Craig Payne)
24. 12:59 PM - Re: New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! (LarryMcFarland)
25. 12:59 PM - Re: new 701 bldr, everything, etc (Zed Smith)
26. 01:03 PM - Re: New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! (Bill Berle)
27. 01:52 PM - Re: New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! (Bob Sturgis)
28. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (Aaron Gustafson)
29. 03:04 PM - Re: rudder position light (chris Sinfield)
30. 03:12 PM - Re: rudder position light (Bryan Martin)
31. 03:49 PM - Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (ashontz)
32. 05:51 PM - N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (James Sagerser)
33. 07:08 PM - Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (Art Olechowski)
34. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help (Art Olechowski)
35. 08:08 PM - Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help (kmccune)
36. 08:35 PM - Re: Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help (Art Olechowski)
37. 08:38 PM - Re: Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help (Bill Berle)
38. 09:27 PM - Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update (Ron Lendon)
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help |
I layed out mine on the Al by, drawing the basic form block outline and then adding
3mm to the front and 16mm to the sides. You do have to pull the metal back
around the side a lot and it takes a bit of patience. I'm using a rubber mallet
and a hard weighted plastic hammer. The rubber one seems to pull better and
the harder plastic one finishes better.
The homebuilt help videos are a big help and the in the "Scratch Building Basics"
video they scratch build all the rudder parts. They show it start to finish.
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158984#158984
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| Subject: | Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
Curt
goto www.ch701.com
then click on Builders resources.
I have uploaded some DXF and PDF files that should help.
Also, there are not any drawings for the tail section on these drawings. I bought
the tail as a kit, but everything else is by scratch.
(Also, just double check the drawings..before you cut..)
Actually while I am thinking about it, double check the top skin at the tail end.
I think that it is not correct. My plans have 2 conflicting dims. and I think
I went with the wrong one (of course)
Keith
CH701 -- scratch
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
*************************************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Curt Thompson
Sent: Thu 1/17/2008 10:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks?
Got my CH701 plans in the mail today. Yippee!!
Are there autocad drawings somewhere that I can use to make form blocks for
the CH701? A draft-lady friend of mine says she can print them on a big
plotter and tweak them so they are full scale. I'm thinking I could then
glue the paper to wood to make the form blocks.
Curt
Redmond, WA - Building hours zero (0)
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended
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that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the
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| Subject: | Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update |
Thanks. It seems to be one of those things like riding a bike. Hard at first, but
a lot more second nature once you start having some luck and then all of a
sudden you gain about 90% of the knowledge all at once, you get in the zone. I
gotta work on finesce now at master the other 90%. LOL
That's pretty cool. Didn't know you worked with him. Yeah, he and the Tin Man seem
to be pretty knowledgable.
My welds are still a little rough, but I don't see any pinholes, and I'm not melting
away a ton on metal now, so that good.
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Looking good Andy. Remember to relax, breathe and watch the puddle.
>
> Don't know if I told you but I worked with Ron Fournier for a year in the 70's.
He really knows his stuff.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158990#158990
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| Subject: | rudder position light |
Hi All
I am about to cut out the metal for my rudder position light. On the latest plans
6-NSO-1 shows the middle of the rudder position light to be 75 mm from the
bottom of the rudder. The latest plans guide rudder assembly page 1 shows the
same position but now 160 mm from bottom to center of the light.
Which one is it 75mm or 160mm? and why
Thanks
Chris [Question]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158993#158993
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| Subject: | Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
Curt
I drew the rudder ribs and spars in AutoCAD but quickly found out that
it was much easier to simply draw the pattern out on the wood directly.
There is no way to assure your plotter will plot to the exact scale.
There can be distortion. I didn't want to take the chance.
Using a Sharpie doesn't give you much accuracy though. But mine seemed
to work out to the finished dimensions.
If you want the Rudder, I can send it to you I use LT2007 but can save
it to any version.
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Curt
Thompson
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 11:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks?
Got my CH701 plans in the mail today. Yippee!!
Are there autocad drawings somewhere that I can use to make form blocks
for the CH701? A draft-lady friend of mine says she can print them on a
big plotter and tweak them so they are full scale. I'm thinking I could
then glue the paper to wood to make the form blocks.
Curt
Redmond, WA - Building hours zero (0)
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| Subject: | Re: Electric rivet gun? |
Sorry guys but it is not so. I have two pneumatic and two hand riveters and while
some heads are interchangeable, some are definitely not.
Dred
---- robert stone <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Kevin.
> I think the heads on most all riveters have the same thread pattern so
> the heads you have modified from Zenith Aircraft should screw onto an
> electric riveter or any other riveter be it air operated or hand.
>
> Bob Stone
> Harker Heights, Tx
> ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help |
Art,
I used a hard plastic hammer to start the bend on the nose tips and then used the
hammer and a piece of smooth aluminum bar to tap out the waves. If you keep
working it over with the metal bar the waves will smooth out very nicely over
the nose of the form block. Just take your time. There is no need to add an
extra 2mm to any of the flanges. When you put in the bend you actually gain
a little material length.
Bryan Ekholm
--------
Bryan Ekholm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158997#158997
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic oil pressure switch |
Super!!! Thank you for your circuit diagram, I will use something like this in
my own installation.
Cheers
Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158998#158998
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| Subject: | Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update |
That is a nice pretty looking seam Andy. Have you tried to separate them to see
how strong they are. I may still have in my email archive a message from another
builder who gas welded his tank and one of the things he reported was that
after he managed to get a nice weld, the parts where weakly joined and it took
him a lot more practice to figure out how to make it strong.
Thanks for keeping us posted, I'm almost settled on riveted tank with pro-seal
but I'll follow your steps if you get it to work with a reasonable amount of learning
time. I will be reaching the tank build point by around summer.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
Here's some of my aluminum welds. Just some practice coupons. I did this one tonight.
I think it's starting to get tank worthy, especially being that I'm now
able to casually reproduce the results over and over.
This is .032 5052 alloy with a .063 1100 alloy filler and a 00 tip on a Harbor
Freight oxy-acetylene jewelers torch and about 3 psi on both oxygen and acetylene.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158937#158937
Attachments:
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
[quote="Curt.Thompson(at)verizon."]Got my CH701 plans in the mail today. Yippee!!
Im thinking I could then glue the paper to wood to make the form blocks.
Curt
Redmond, WA Building hours zero (0)
> [b]
You mean like this?
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/9_6_03_CuttingTemplates.jpg
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/9_6_03_RibTemplates.JPG
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/9_13_03_RibCollection.JPG
Curt - go one step further and draw the entire rib in AutoCadd and plot it out.
Then glue it to some thin material so you can lay it on the aluminum and mark
exactly where to cut. Also, drill all the holes in the aluminum right through
the template - even the round corner holes where two cuts come together and
you don't have to use a round file to file the intersection. It is quick and
easy. My templates and forms have made 136 ribs to date and they are still in
good shape. (they are loaned out right now making two identical 601XL's).
You have a good idea - stick with it.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
601XL/Corvair Finished & Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159002#159002
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| Subject: | Flight Report and Question-701 |
Les
I spent a little time playing with the wt/bal figures you provided.
Interesting how it worked out. For comparision my 701 empty cg is at
173mm, well forward of your 373 mm. On my plane any addition of pilot,
passenger fuel or baggage moves the cg aft simply because the added
weight is behind the empty cg. On your plane, if my figures are correct,
any additional weight added moves the cg forward, again simply because
the added weight is forward of the empty cg. For confirmation, when
loaded your cg runs about 10%MAC aft of mine. When empty your cg runs
14% aft of mine.(MAC is mean aerodynamic chord - divide cg by total
chord to arrive at %MAC in your case 373 divided by 1430 is 26% mac
empty cg position). As to the tail staying on the ground with 20 gal
fuel-if the tanks are more near empty the tail will probably be more apt
to sit on the ground again because the addition of fuel moves your cg
forward. The position of your gear fore/aft enters into the "on the
ground" situation also
I did all of this hurriedly and had to back in on some of your numbers
so there were plenty of opportunities for a mistake. If anybody sees one
please speak up...and don't rely on anything I say without confirming
it-I'm getting old.
Joe
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| Subject: | Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update |
I've cut others open and the penetration is pretty good. I'm still practicing.
About ever 4 days I'll go out and weld some more and each time they get better.
It's almost like I just have to digest for a few days what I learned.
[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]That is a nice pretty looking seam Andy. Have you
tried to separate them to see how strong they are. I may still have in my email
archive a message from another builder who gas welded his tank and one of
the things he reported was that after he managed to get a nice weld, the parts
where weakly joined and it took him a lot more practice to figure out how to
make it strong.
Thanks for keeping us posted, I'm almost settled on riveted tank with pro-seal
but I'll follow your steps if you get it to work with a reasonable amount of learning
time. I will be reaching the tank build point by around summer.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
Here's some of my aluminum
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159010#159010
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
Scott,
Yes, I was thinking about making rib cutting templates like yours (yours are
for a CH601, correct?). Could I make the templates a little thicker and use
a laminating cutter bit and router to cut the aluminum blanks? I think I
saw that in the "Scratch Building Basics or Metal Aircraft" DVD.
Curt
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| Subject: | Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
Randall,
I have read somewhere that scaling a plot could be a problem. I
specifically asked my draft-lady friend if she could independently scale the
X and Y axis after making a test plot. She says yes. I haven't used
autocad for at least 20 years but she said she would help. Could you email
me the files so I could look at them?
Curt
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randall J.
Hebert
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 5:21 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks?
Curt
I drew the rudder ribs and spars in AutoCAD but quickly found out that it
was much easier to simply draw the pattern out on the wood directly.
There is no way to assure your plotter will plot to the exact scale. There
can be distortion. I didn't want to take the chance.
Using a Sharpie doesn't give you much accuracy though. But mine seemed to
work out to the finished dimensions.
If you want the Rudder, I can send it to you I use LT2007 but can save it to
any version.
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
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| Subject: | Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
Thanks Keith. I can't believe I didn't run across your site before. All
kinds of good info there. I think the plotter I have access to will plot up
to 48" wide (and virtually infinite length). I will double check the
measurements before using.
Curt
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? Router cutting |
blanks
I made my cutting templates out of 1/2" plywood. I
found that I could cut four ribs at one time without
any major problems. They turned out pretty well for
the most part.
If you are going to router cut, make sure you use a
good quality laminant bit. Mine was a cheaper one and
the pilot bearing came off and nicked my nose rib
cutting block. Not a major issue but all of my
remaining nose ribs had a small defect on the back
flange (not a structural issue).
Additionally, I found that it worked best to take
smaller cuts. Any deeper cut than about 1/2" caused
more vibraton than I was comfortable with. If you
have to cut deeper than that, just do it in multiple
passes. I rough cut my blanks with an olfa knife and
some use of snips.
Be sure to wear proper protective equipment if cutting
with a router. A router table seems to work best and
a vacuum as a chip collector. Make sure you wear
safety glasses and hearing protection as this
operation is very loud.
Best of luck with the build
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
Working on wiring inst panel
Do not archive
--- Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
> <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net>
>
> Scott,
>
> Yes, I was thinking about making rib cutting
> templates like yours (yours are
> for a CH601, correct?). Could I make the templates
> a little thicker and use
> a laminating cutter bit and router to cut the
> aluminum blanks? I think I
> saw that in the "Scratch Building Basics or Metal
> Aircraft" DVD.
>
> Curt
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
Curt.Thompson(at)verizon. wrote:
> Scott,
>
> Yes, I was thinking about making rib cutting templates like yours (yours are
> for a CH601, correct?). Could I make the templates a little thicker and use
> a laminating cutter bit and router to cut the aluminum blanks?
>
> Curt
Curt: I cut everything out with snips. My good friend David Barth always laughed
at me every time he saw a picture like this:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/6_7_04_BottomFuse.JPG
or this:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_9_04_FirewallCutting.JPG
That's because David is the "Olfa-king." I never could figure out how to use the
Olfa knife.
I enjoyed the careful work of cutting out a perfect part. Plus, it gets you ready
for all those awkward cuts you have to make later when everything is assembled
and you have to change something!
I think the router idea would make a huge mess but to each his own.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair Finished & Flying
Did I just say Finished & Flying? Let me pinch myself.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159040#159040
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| Subject: | Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks and router templates |
Hey Curt,
It's not my site, but belongs to Jon and Mark, (I think) Also, to check for
correct plotting, go ahead and add a scale to the drawings, in both the X
and Y. Make them pretty long. Then when you do your test plot, measure the
scales and see what % you are off, in each direction and make scaling adjus
tment to the plotting program and try again.
My plotter only did 36" width, so I did the ol' tape together method. turne
d out fine.
Also, I have made "Router Templates" and "Forming Blocks" for all ribs so f
ar. The "Router Templates" are made out of some old Hard-Lapboard siding I
had laying around. I trimmed the Aluminum fairly close to the final finishe
d line, then made a sandwich of several rib pieces, then used a straight 1/
2" laminating bit, and cut them together at one time.
example showing the nose router template, with finished rib blanks in upper
right, and rough-cut blanks waiting to be cut, and the sandwich
http://picasaweb.google.com/ch701builder/SN4765/photo#5125355699928440434
a closeup of the sandwich and the router bit
http://picasaweb.google.com/ch701builder/SN4765/photo#5125355729993211538
Good luck,
Keith
***************************************************************************
******************
Curt Thompson wrote:
et><mailto:Curt.Thompson@verizon.net>
Thanks Keith. I can't believe I didn't run across your site before. All
kinds of good info there. I think the plotter I have access to will plot u
p
to 48" wide (and virtually infinite length). I will double check the
measurements before using.
Curt
--
*************************************
Keith Ashcraft
ITT Industries
Advanced Engineering & Sciences
5009 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO
80919
(719) 599-1787 -- work
(719) 332-4364 -- cell
keith.ashcraft@itt.com<mailto:keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
________________________________
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are in
tended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addr
essed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender.
Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely
those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporati
on. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the pres
ence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any viru
s transmitted by this e-mail.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Flight Report and Question-701 |
Thanks for looking at the figures Joe. I know I have to watch the CG
carefully and will probably net-off the back of the baggage compartment as
described in Ralph's (jetboy's) email.
Regards,
Les
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Spencer
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 6:27 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flight Report and Question-701
Les
I spent a little time playing with the wt/bal figures you provided.
Interesting how it worked out. For comparision my 701 empty cg is at 173mm,
well forward of your 373 mm. On my plane any addition of pilot, passenger
fuel or baggage moves the cg aft simply because the added weight is behind
the empty cg. On your plane, if my figures are correct, any additional
weight added moves the cg forward, again simply because the added weight is
forward of the empty cg. For confirmation, when loaded your cg runs about
10%MAC aft of mine. When empty your cg runs 14% aft of mine.(MAC is mean
aerodynamic chord - divide cg by total chord to arrive at %MAC in your case
373 divided by 1430 is 26% mac empty cg position). As to the tail staying on
the ground with 20 gal fuel-if the tanks are more near empty the tail will
probably be more apt to sit on the ground again because the addition of fuel
moves your cg forward. The position of your gear fore/aft enters into the
"on the ground" situation also
I did all of this hurriedly and had to back in on some of your numbers so
there were plenty of opportunities for a mistake. If anybody sees one please
speak up...and don't rely on anything I say without confirming it-I'm
getting old.
Joe
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| Subject: | Re: rudder position light |
simply put, you can put it where ever you want. there is no precise measurment
to it. The light just needs to be in a no obtrusive location, hence anywhere.
Look online at zenith's websites at the phto gallery for ideas. Suggestion
on mine is just above the plane of the elevator so a plane can see it from above.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>Sent: Jan 18, 2008 8:15 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: rudder position light
>
>
>Hi All
>I am about to cut out the metal for my rudder position light. On the latest plans
6-NSO-1 shows the middle of the rudder position light to be 75 mm from the
bottom of the rudder. The latest plans guide rudder assembly page 1 shows the
same position but now 160 mm from bottom to center of the light.
>Which one is it 75mm or 160mm? and why
>Thanks
>Chris [Question]
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158993#158993
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
hi all
i'm as we speak drawing out the small parts on cad to use on my milling
center
it seems that some of the curve stn.data is developed for a batten or steel
ruler other than that
it seems ok
peter
On Jan 18, 2008 7:28 AM, Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
> Curt.Thompson@verizon.net>
>
> Thanks Keith. I can't believe I didn't run across your site before. All
> kinds of good info there. I think the plotter I have access to will plot
> up
> to 48" wide (and virtually infinite length). I will double check the
> measurements before using.
>
> Curt
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! |
Greetings from Los Angeles. I just bought a completed 701
rudder/stabilizer/elevator/plans off eBay. I will be scratchbuilding the
rest of it from the plans. I realize I will be the 10,000th person to
ask the same old questions, so I truly appreciate whoever will roll
their eyes and say... OK, here we go all over again with THIS new guy...
:) I have experience working on airplanes, and have approx. the same
skills as a journeyman level A&P mechanic. Completed A&P school years
ago, but no test and no license. Familiar with AC 43.13 and general good
practices. Many time airplane owner, 1400+ hours including racing
sailplanes, F-1 pylon racing, antiques, experimentals.
The first biggest thing I want to ask is where can I buy, rent, trade,
steal, or swap for a set of form blocks and hole flange dies. There have
been many plans-built 701's and I'm sure somebody has a good set that is
sitting in the garage after they built their 701.
Second thing I need to know is if there is any categorized info on
701-specific plans errors, tips, tricks, etc. instead of having to
manually search through the entire Matronics Zenith archives one at a time.
All experiences, advice, "watch out for this", "make sure you don't put
this part on before you rivet that piece", etc. are most welcome.
Bill Berle victorbravo [at...) sbcglobal{...dot] net
Message 23
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| Subject: | New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! |
Have you been to http://www.ch701.com/ yet? Also
http://www.homebuilthelp.com/ has general and 701-specific DVDs.
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! |
Bill,
The most important thing is having a set of plans with a serial number.
You should call Zenith and advising them of your purchase of this serial
number, revision etc
and ask for updates and re-assignment of the plans with you as new
owner. They may charge a fee for the update if much extra data is
needed, but it's the best course of action. Then you can call them for
information on specific details that can sometimes only be answered by Nick
Phone 1-573-581-9000.
Then subscribe to the Zenair News and perhaps get a year or two of back
copies. Their phone number is 1-262-966-7627. Then you'll get a regular
digest of
what's new and interesting in the 701 builder arena and pick up some of
the items that have addressed 701 builders concerns.
Welcome to the group and don't be afraid to ask.
Best regards,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Bill Berle wrote:
>
> Greetings from Los Angeles. I just bought a completed 701
> rudder/stabilizer/elevator/plans off eBay. I will be scratchbuilding
> the rest of it from the plans. I realize I will be the 10,000th person
> to ask the same old questions, so I truly appreciate whoever will roll
> their eyes and say... OK, here we go all over again with THIS new
> guy... :) I have experience working on airplanes, and have approx. the
> same skills as a journeyman level A&P mechanic. Completed A&P school
> years ago, but no test and no license. Familiar with AC 43.13 and
> general good practices. Many time airplane owner, 1400+ hours
> including racing sailplanes, F-1 pylon racing, antiques, experimentals.
>
> The first biggest thing I want to ask is where can I buy, rent, trade,
> steal, or swap for a set of form blocks and hole flange dies. There
> have been many plans-built 701's and I'm sure somebody has a good set
> that is sitting in the garage after they built their 701.
>
> Second thing I need to know is if there is any categorized info on
> 701-specific plans errors, tips, tricks, etc. instead of having to
> manually search through the entire Matronics Zenith archives one at a
> time.
>
> All experiences, advice, "watch out for this", "make sure you don't
> put this part on before you rivet that piece", etc. are most welcome.
>
> Bill Berle victorbravo [at...) sbcglobal{...dot] net
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: new 701 bldr, everything, etc |
do not archive
You are in luck!!
Spring is just around the corner, so is April first.....so prepareth thine self
for leg pulleth.
Before you complete your ship, before you acquire all the tools known to mankind,
before you say "OOPS" dozens of times, and especially before you purchase the
wrong color ScotchBrite pads.....
Welcome to the "Wally World of Scrap Aluminum"!
This is a GOOD group..they won't kick you until they're absolutely sure you are
down and can't get up!
All seriousness aside, WELCOME !
We'll all try to keep you from riveting the doors shut or installing the engine
backwards.
Regards,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! |
Yes, been there and bought scratchbuilding DVD. Thank you for responding.
>
> Have you been to http://www.ch701.com/ yet? Also
> http://www.homebuilthelp.com/ has general and 701-specific DVDs.
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: New 701 builder, Request for EVERYTHING ! |
Bill, I will be at the hanger about 6:30 tonight and I have some info for you on
the blocks.
Got my new landing gear, and the starts of the panel.
Bobefx
N642Z Reserved
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update |
It took me 1 1/2 years to weld my tanks. That's 1 year 5 months and three
weeks of trying and giving up and trying again and giving up again and
learning some new trick and practicing and getting discouraged and giving up
and coming back and trying some new idea and giving up and coming back and
trying again and learning something new and buying more oxygen and acetylene
(at least 4 fill-ups of the mini tanks) and buying different filler rod and
trying a different way of applying the flux and finally feeling that I might
be able to do it and welding up one tank and fixing the pin holes and more
pin holes and more pin holes until I again gave up and threw the hole thing
away and bought more metal and tried again. Whew!!! I'm sure it would have
been cheaper to buy ready to install tanks but then I would not have been
able to write this message and encourage those of you who occasionally have
trouble with a project and telling you to never, never, never, give up. I
did it and so can you if you want to!
I also found that there is a great difference between welding a few small
pieces together and welding a large sheet and you have to relearn when
making that transition.
Aaron Gustafson 601HD 45 hours NO LEAKS IN THE FUEL TANKS
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: rudder position light |
Thanks
I didn't think there was a major issue with it but was curious as to the two different
measurements from Zenith. IE Was there a cracking issue or something
and that's why they changed it something ect.
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159120#159120
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| Subject: | Re: rudder position light |
You can put it anywhere you want on the trailing edge of the rudder,
it's not critical. I would suggest just behind and above the upper
rudder hinge to make it easier to route the wires to the light fixture.
On Jan 18, 2008, at 8:15 AM, chris Sinfield wrote:
> >
>
> Hi All
> I am about to cut out the metal for my rudder position light. On the
> latest plans 6-NSO-1 shows the middle of the rudder position light
> to be 75 mm from the bottom of the rudder. The latest plans guide
> rudder assembly page 1 shows the same position but now 160 mm from
> bottom to center of the light.
> Which one is it 75mm or 160mm? and why
> Thanks
> Chris [Question]
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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| Subject: | Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update |
Thanks for your input.
I've already tried larger pieces, you just need to turn to flame up higher. I'm
doing short pieces so I can practice over and over again without going through
a whole lot of scrap. Just using the short pieces I can see a world of difference
in technique and results.
As far as large pieces, did you try preheating them or even keeping them warm with
say a little bunson burner or a hot plate while welding? I'd imagine something
like that helps immense with keeping the heat in the part instead of having
all of it wick away to the neither regions of the part while working on it.
Fact is, I successfully and repeatedly welded some small parts, there's always
way to scale it up.
The reason you were getting pin holes was probably because on the large part the
heat dissapation kept you from making a good weld and while getting frustrated
with it waiting for the heat you prematurely welded and oxydixed the joints
real good which makes for a very porous weld if you even get that far.
When I actually do the tank I'll most likely go with a bit larger torch tip and
bunson burners under the tank skin and shielded from the oxy-acetelene hoses.
This isn't rocket science. It's just basic science and common sense.
agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote:
> It took me 1 1/2 years to weld my tanks. That's 1 year 5 months and three
> weeks of trying and giving up and trying again and giving up again and
> learning some new trick and practicing and getting discouraged and giving up
> and coming back and trying some new idea and giving up and coming back and
> trying again and learning something new and buying more oxygen and acetylene
> (at least 4 fill-ups of the mini tanks) and buying different filler rod and
> trying a different way of applying the flux and finally feeling that I might
> be able to do it and welding up one tank and fixing the pin holes and more
> pin holes and more pin holes until I again gave up and threw the hole thing
> away and bought more metal and tried again. Whew!!! I'm sure it would have
> been cheaper to buy ready to install tanks but then I would not have been
> able to write this message and encourage those of you who occasionally have
> trouble with a project and telling you to never, never, never, give up. I
> did it and so can you if you want to!
>
> I also found that there is a great difference between welding a few small
> pieces together and welding a large sheet and you have to relearn when
> making that transition.
>
> Aaron Gustafson 601HD 45 hours NO LEAKS IN THE FUEL TANKS
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159127#159127
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| Subject: | N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
N701ZZ flew for 1 hour today. Weather was 59F, winds were light &
variable, and not a cloud in the sky. Configuration: Empty weight
of 698 lbs, 285 lbs of pilot & fuel for a total of 983 lbs. This
plane has extruded struts, and strut fairings. A 701 with Pegastol
wings has a max gross weight of 1200 lbs. You may see pictures of
"Buzz" if you wish by clicking on the link below:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22918119@N08/
I believe this is the only Ch 701 with a 6 cylinder, 120hp, Jabiru
3300 engine and retractable slats (PegaStol wings). I previously
owned a 701 with an 80 hp, Jabiru 2200 engine, built by Charles
Mulloy. I had flow it approx 100 hours so have some knowledge of
the differences in flight characteristics.
Overall, it flew beautifully; temps in range, fairly in rig, quite
and smooth engine. However, I will need to change the prop to more
of a climb prop. Max RPM on the 3300 is 3300 RPM. My max takeoff
and full power is a max of 2750 rpm so am not developing max Hp but
rather approx 105 hp or so if I read the charts correctly. One thing
that was noticeably different; this plane is VERY FAST! I climbed
at 90-mph TAS at 750'. I leveled off at 2700' elevation, slats
retracted, 2500 rpm with a TAS of 106-mph, fuel flow of 5.1 gal/
hr. When I momentarily advanced full throttle to check max rpm,
it quickly jumped to 122-mph TAS.
I reduced the cruise rpm to 2300 to slow it down to 90-mph TAS at
2500' elevation. The fuel flow showed 3.69 gal/hr. The nose was
slightly high. I cross checked the speeds with my GPS, both
directions to double check my readings. Think they are pretty accurate.
On decent, with 1200 rpm, indicating 65-mph, the rate of decent was
approximately 700 ft/mim. Slats came out gently and in small
increments as I started slowing. That was really a pretty sight.
The descent was definitely more gentle than Zenith wings, however,
the touchdown was a bit faster (not particularly a plus) but am not
familiar with the plane yet. I'l have a much better comparison after
the first 10 hours.
The max CHT for climb out for the 3300 is 392F (My max climb CHT was
343F)
The max CHT for continuous is 356F (My hottest cylinder, #5 stayed
around 320-330F depending on throttle setting)
The max 3300 oil temp is 244F (mine stayed around 180-190F)
I have a few issues to fix; plane turns left when flaps go beyond 20
degrees or so. Tach became intermittent on way back to field then
stabilized. Will probably change to other lead. #5 cylinder is
hottest so will adjust deflectors on top side of air shroud. etc.
etc. Just more fun.
These are preliminary findings (or impressions) so will update to
those wanting that information if they would email me personally,
off list.
This is the prototype 701 with a Jabiru 3300 from Jabiru USA. I want
to thank them, especially Pete & Dana for all their help.
Jim alaskajim@cox.net
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
Congratulations Jim, keep us posted.
Art
--- James Sagerser <alaskajim@cox.net> wrote:
>
> N701ZZ flew for 1 hour today. Weather was 59F, winds were light &
> variable, and not a cloud in the sky. Configuration: Empty weight
> of 698 lbs, 285 lbs of pilot & fuel for a total of 983 lbs. This
> plane has extruded struts, and strut fairings. A 701 with Pegastol
> wings has a max gross weight of 1200 lbs. You may see pictures of
> "Buzz" if you wish by clicking on the link below:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/22918119@N08/
>
> I believe this is the only Ch 701 with a 6 cylinder, 120hp, Jabiru
> 3300 engine and retractable slats (PegaStol wings). I previously
> owned a 701 with an 80 hp, Jabiru 2200 engine, built by Charles
> Mulloy. I had flow it approx 100 hours so have some knowledge of
> the differences in flight characteristics.
>
> Overall, it flew beautifully; temps in range, fairly in rig, quite
> and smooth engine. However, I will need to change the prop to more
> of a climb prop. Max RPM on the 3300 is 3300 RPM. My max takeoff
> and full power is a max of 2750 rpm so am not developing max Hp but
> rather approx 105 hp or so if I read the charts correctly. One thing
> that was noticeably different; this plane is VERY FAST! I climbed
> at 90-mph TAS at 750'. I leveled off at 2700' elevation, slats
> retracted, 2500 rpm with a TAS of 106-mph, fuel flow of 5.1 gal/
> hr. When I momentarily advanced full throttle to check max rpm,
> it quickly jumped to 122-mph TAS.
>
> I reduced the cruise rpm to 2300 to slow it down to 90-mph TAS at
> 2500' elevation. The fuel flow showed 3.69 gal/hr. The nose was
> slightly high. I cross checked the speeds with my GPS, both
> directions to double check my readings. Think they are pretty accurate.
>
> On decent, with 1200 rpm, indicating 65-mph, the rate of decent was
> approximately 700 ft/mim. Slats came out gently and in small
> increments as I started slowing. That was really a pretty sight.
> The descent was definitely more gentle than Zenith wings, however,
> the touchdown was a bit faster (not particularly a plus) but am not
> familiar with the plane yet. I'l have a much better comparison after
> the first 10 hours.
>
> The max CHT for climb out for the 3300 is 392F (My max climb CHT was
> 343F)
> The max CHT for continuous is 356F (My hottest cylinder, #5 stayed
> around 320-330F depending on throttle setting)
> The max 3300 oil temp is 244F (mine stayed around 180-190F)
>
> I have a few issues to fix; plane turns left when flaps go beyond 20
> degrees or so. Tach became intermittent on way back to field then
> stabilized. Will probably change to other lead. #5 cylinder is
> hottest so will adjust deflectors on top side of air shroud. etc.
> etc. Just more fun.
>
> These are preliminary findings (or impressions) so will update to
> those wanting that information if they would email me personally,
> off list.
>
> This is the prototype 701 with a Jabiru 3300 from Jabiru USA. I want
> to thank them, especially Pete & Dana for all their help.
>
>
> Jim alaskajim@cox.net
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help |
Thanks Bryan & Kevin for your replies. I appreciate you sharing your experience.
I realized I
got the material oversizing from the wrong source and will stick to the flat dimensions
in the
plans. Its been 10 years since I formed ribs last and I guess I was anticipating
everything to
come back to me, boy was I totally wrong. We used wedge shape ash wood mallets
back then and now
I'm using a compilation of rubber mallets and a rawhide mallet. Unfortunately
I worked from the
center out and when I got to the nose the excessive material started to buckle.
I need remove 2mm
of material all the way around and get back at it. Thanks again for the advice.
I'll post the
final result whether its gone good or bad.
do not archive
Art
--- Bryan Ekholm <bryanekholm@excite.com> wrote:
>
> Art,
> I used a hard plastic hammer to start the bend on the nose tips and then used
the hammer and a
> piece of smooth aluminum bar to tap out the waves. If you keep working it over
with the metal
> bar the waves will smooth out very nicely over the nose of the form block. Just
take your time.
> There is no need to add an extra 2mm to any of the flanges. When you put in
the bend you
> actually gain a little material length.
>
> Bryan Ekholm
>
> --------
> Bryan Ekholm
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158997#158997
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help |
I'd like to try a rawhide mallet, but I have no idea were to get one.
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159154#159154
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help |
Kevin,
try this link: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/garland.php
do not archive
Art
--- kmccune <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>
> I'd like to try a rawhide mallet, but I have no idea were to get one.
>
> --------
> Kevin
> N701DZ Reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159154#159154
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Rudder Tip Rib Help |
kmccune wrote:
>
> I'd like to try a rawhide mallet, but I have no idea were to get one.
>
This took all of 20 seconds, thanks to our friends at Google...
Source #1: http://www.expressprotools.com/categories.asp?catid=27
Source #2: http://hammersource.com/Mallets.html
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| Subject: | Re: Welded Fuel Tanks Update |
Tack it all up first. Work on joining your welds once you have good ones.
Get a Stainless wire brush only for this purpose.
The method I used with the tig is:
Wire brush area, tack weld.
Tacks were about 12" then 6" apart.
To join the welds:
Wire brush area, weld from tack to tack.
You of course will also have flux application. I was able to run a 6" bead fairly
consistently on the 601 tanks.
To keep the oxidization down with the torch try setting the acetylene pressure/flow
and leave the oxygen off but have the oxygen valve on the torch wide open,
gradually bring the pressure up on the oxygen tank to set the flame. Using
that method the mix at the tip of the torch gathers oxygen from the atmosphere
minimizing the oxidation of the weld area.
On my tanks the oxygen pressure is just off the pin using the above settings.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
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