---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/20/08: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:36 AM - Re: Re: rudder cam...how big is too big? (Bill Berle) 2. 02:18 AM - 701 Scratch Builder (Bill Berle) 3. 04:18 AM - Re: Holding Nose up (David Downey) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: Rib forming questions (Gary Boothe) 5. 07:18 AM - Marvel Schebler 10-4233 (MA3APA) (Timothy Croy) 6. 08:41 AM - Re: Rib forming questions (LRM) 7. 08:44 AM - Re: Holding Nose up (Juan Vega) 8. 08:47 AM - Re: Holding Nose up (Juan Vega) 9. 08:51 AM - Re: Question (Juan Vega) 10. 09:24 AM - Re: Holding Nose up (Edward Moody II) 11. 11:27 AM - Re: Holding Nose up (T. Graziano) 12. 12:46 PM - Re: Question (John Short) 13. 12:52 PM - Wing tip sheet (james dankovich) 14. 01:18 PM - Re: Holding Nose up (David Downey) 15. 01:48 PM - Re: Question (David Downey) 16. 02:39 PM - cranks update (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 17. 02:54 PM - Re: Marvel Schebler 10-4233 (MA3APA) () 18. 03:57 PM - 6.4 MM reamer () 19. 04:49 PM - Re: 6.4 MM reamer (pavel569) 20. 05:15 PM - Re: 6.4 MM reamer (Craig Payne) 21. 08:05 PM - Re: Wing tip sheet (Ron Lendon) 22. 08:19 PM - Re: 6.4 MM reamer (Ron Lendon) 23. 08:32 PM - Re: HDS Wings (THOMAS SMALL) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:24 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: rudder cam...how big is too big? Guys, pay attention to the guy who warned against adding any significant weight to the top of the rudder. He's right. If you want to add one of those one-ounce CCD "lipstick" cameras, that's fine. Anything over 6 ounces accidentally put in the wrong place, in my opinion, is asking for flutter or some other aeroelastic/structural issue. Anything you do put up there HAS to be on or forward of the hinge line for flutter safety. If you want to not have the camera turn when you touch the rudder pedals, that's easy. Mount it on a bearing or bushing so it can rotate freely and put a small weathervane fin behind it. It will always point forward parallel to the flight path. Use a very tiny camera that weighs an ounce or two, and don't put ten pounds of coax cable from that little camera to the cockpit. I'm sure a standard two-wire system using small gauge wire will be fine. If it has to be shielded, wrap it in half an ounce of aluminum foil not five pounds of electrical shielding. Bill The New Guy Tim Juhl wrote: > > I agree that adding even a small camcorder to the rudder is too much. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:32 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Scratch Builder I will be scratch building a 701, yes I DO have a serial number, plans, etc. Looking for a set of form blocks and flanging dies. Will trade you something useful in return for the loan/rental of a good set of form blocks and flange dies. Bill the New Guy Los Angeles ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:17 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up do not forget that the stabilizer's primary job is balancing the pitching moment of the airfoil. This why trim changes occur with loading and speed. Stan Thank you very much for your post. No flames here. I think you're onto something good. It really got me to thinking about the aerodynamics of the horizontal stabilizer. Please indulge me while I ramble about this. ZAC told me that the stabilizer airfoil is symetrical. Since the stabilizer exerts a downward force to balance the moment of the engine around the aircraft cg, the symetrical airfoil must be angled slightly downward to generate a downward force with neutral trim. After touchdown, with the nose up, the stabilizer would be angled upward, generating an upward force that would rotate the A/C around the mains, pushing the nose down. So, to hold the nose up after touchdown, you would need to pull the stick aft, forcing the elevator up. And, what Stan is saying, is that VGs on the underside of the stabilizer will increase up-elevator effectiveness (apparently) by reducing boundary layer separation on the bottom of the elevator. That all makes sense to me now. So, I would like to ask Stan the usual questions, how many VG's? Where are they on the stab? Do you have any photos? Thank you for posting your experience. This is a very interesting subject. Terry -----Original message----- From: Stanley Challgren challgren@mac.com Subject: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up > > Andy Shontz: > > You asked; > > "One thing, it appears as though on landing the nose comes down pretty > quick. I think other people have noted this one their XLs as well. Is > it fairly difficult to hold the nose up once the mains hit?" > > I assume the XL is similar to the HDS and it was impossible to hold > the nose up on ours after touchdown. We solved that problem by > placing VG's on the bottom side of the horizontal stabilizer. With > the VG's there, you could aerodynamic brake down to about 20 mph. > > Your other question: > > " I was thinking a tail skid of some sort might be a good idea when I > get around to building the fuselage, to not only protect the fuselage > but also the rudder." > > The HDS had a very effective tail skid in the tie down ring. I > discovered how effective it was when I failed to ask my BFR check > pilot how much he weighed. I had planned on 170# and after grinding > down the tail skid on takeoff I found he weighed 240#. > > Stan > > p.s. Let the flames began. > Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:22 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rib forming questions Glenn, The roll-out at your joggle doesn't appear to be bad at all. In the future, you might consider a tighter clamp at that exact area when you form the joggle. The length of the joggle is not critical if it does not interfere with the placement of a rivet. If it does interfere with a rivet, there may be options, but re-bending the aluminum is not preferred. Too much bending 'work hardens' the aluminum, creating a possible crack. The clearance referred to should be good at 1-2mm. The important thing is that the rib flange does not touch the spar flange, and there is not so much gap that you lose your edge clearance on your last rivet. If the ends are high on your ribs, just put a large dowel under the rib (like a closet hanger rod) and roll the rib back and forth with gentle pressure. The rib will flatten out very easily. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jugle Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:34 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rib forming questions Hope you scratch builders out there can help. Firstly, those joggles again... I have cutouts in the form blocks for them, but if I hammer them down while in the form blocks, the step created by the joggle tends to push material outwards, thus flattening and reducing the radius of the flange in that area. Please see attached images. The Construction Standards say no radius smaller than 1.5mm, so I may be okay here, what do you think? Also, one joggle I made was too long. Is it acceptable to flatten it out and re-do it, or is this too much panel beating for 6061-T6? Do I need to make the rib again? Next, on the Scratchbuilding Basics DVD, David demonstrates trimming some metal off the ends of the flanges where they touch in the corners... how much clearance should there be in those corners? And lastly, I've watched the Homebuilt Help DVDs umpteen times... very good by the way... the method Mark uses for removing bows in the ribs, by tweaking the crimps works well when the middle of the rib is high when placed on a flat surface, but what about when the ends are high? I have been putting them back in the form blocks and running along the flange again with a mallet, but it is a bit time consuming. Is there another way? Thanks for any suggestions, Glenn -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- just started. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159334#159334 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/joggle_detail_3_103.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/joggle_detail_2_982.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/joggle_detail_833.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:06 AM PST US From: "Timothy Croy" Subject: Zenith-List: Marvel Schebler 10-4233 (MA3APA) All, Looking for a marvel schebler carb, 10-4233, for a Continental A75-8F. Original stromberg is icing up. Thanks in advance for any tips or comments. Blue skies, Tim ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:52 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rib forming questions I am sorta scratch building my second 701. Wings and tail are kit, the rest I will scratch build. I did have to build a few ribs to make my long wing extension. I used a friends forming blocks and found the same problem you are having. I don't think it really mattered but I didn't like it. Then I remembered that on the PegaStol ribs, they had drilled a hole where the bend would be at every dimple. I did it on my new ribs and it fixed the problem. You can sorta see the holes on one of the pictures on this page on my site. http://www.skyhawg.com/ribs.html It might be worth trying. LRM www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jugle" Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:34 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Rib forming questions > > Hope you scratch builders out there can help. > > Firstly, those joggles again... I have cutouts in the form blocks for > them, but if I hammer them down while in the form blocks, the step created > by the joggle tends to push material outwards, thus flattening and > reducing the radius of the flange in that area. Please see attached > images. > > The Construction Standards say no radius smaller than 1.5mm, so I may be > okay here, what do you think? > > Also, one joggle I made was too long. Is it acceptable to flatten it out > and re-do it, or is this too much panel beating for 6061-T6? Do I need to > make the rib again? > > Next, on the Scratchbuilding Basics DVD, David demonstrates trimming some > metal off the ends of the flanges where they touch in the corners... how > much clearance should there be in those corners? > > And lastly, I've watched the Homebuilt Help DVDs umpteen times... very > good by the way... the method Mark uses for removing bows in the ribs, by > tweaking the crimps works well when the middle of the rib is high when > placed on a flat surface, but what about when the ends are high? I have > been putting them back in the form blocks and running along the flange > again with a mallet, but it is a bit time consuming. Is there another way? > > Thanks for any suggestions, > Glenn > > -------- > Glenn Andressen > 601XL- just started. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159334#159334 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/joggle_detail_3_103.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/joggle_detail_2_982.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/joggle_detail_833.jpg > > > -- > 7:32 PM > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:04 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up Dave, the VGs may be all well and good, i dont know much bout the effects of the VG in back to comment on that , however the hold of nose is mostly a CG effect. not just the weight but where the main wheels are. There are two ways the mains can go on an XL mians forward or back. if the mains are on and fix in position, just put some weight in tail. Does not have to be much. I suggest trying that first. put a small 2 lb weight to the rear, first, then cruise down the runway, and adjust the weight until front nose wheel comes off at 25 mph plus. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: David Downey >Sent: Jan 20, 2008 7:14 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up > >do not forget that the stabilizer's primary job is balancing the pitching moment of the airfoil. This why trim changes occur with loading and speed. > > >Stan > >Thank you very much for your post. No flames here. I think you're onto something good. > >It really got me to thinking about the aerodynamics of the horizontal stabilizer. Please indulge me while I ramble about this. > >ZAC told me that the stabilizer airfoil is symetrical. Since the stabilizer exerts a downward force to balance the moment of the engine around the aircraft cg, the symetrical airfoil must be angled slightly downward to generate a downward force with neutral trim. After touchdown, with the nose up, the stabilizer would be angled upward, generating an upward force that would rotate the A/C around the mains, pushing the nose down. So, to hold the nose up after touchdown, you would need to pull the stick aft, forcing the elevator up. And, what Stan is saying, is that VGs on the underside of the stabilizer will increase up-elevator effectiveness (apparently) by reducing boundary layer separation on the bottom of the elevator. That all makes sense to me now. > >So, I would like to ask Stan the usual questions, how many VG's? Where are they on the stab? Do you have any photos? Thank you for posting your experience. > >This is a very interesting subject. > >Terry > > >-----Original message----- >From: Stanley Challgren challgren@mac.com >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:33:29 -0700 >To: Zenith List zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up > >> >> Andy Shontz: >> >> You asked; >> >> "One thing, it appears as though on landing the nose comes down pretty >> quick. I think other people have noted this one their XLs as well. Is >> it fairly difficult to hold the nose up once the mains hit?" >> >> I assume the XL is similar to the HDS and it was impossible to hold >> the nose up on ours after touchdown. We solved that problem by >> placing VG's on the bottom side of the horizontal stabilizer. With >> the VG's there, you could aerodynamic brake down to about 20 mph. >> >> Your other question: >> >> " I was thinking a tail skid of some sort might be a good idea when I >> get around to building the fuselage, to not only protect the fuselage >> but also the rudder." >> >> The HDS had a very effective tail skid in the tie down ring. I >> discovered how effective it was when I failed to ask my BFR check >> pilot how much he weighed. I had planned on 170# and after grinding >> down the tail skid on takeoff I found he weighed 240#. >> >> Stan >> >> p.s. Let the flames began. >> > > >Terry Phillips >ttp44~at~rkymtn.net >Corvallis MT >601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings >http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > >--------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:49 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up to clarify, I do not have the nose sticking issue on my XL. Mine comes off at 20 mph approx. It is a weight issue. you need to adjust weight to the rear or adjust the main wheels forward. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Terry Phillips >Sent: Jan 19, 2008 11:48 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up > > >Stan > >Thank you very much for your post. No flames here. I think you're onto something good. > >It really got me to thinking about the aerodynamics of the horizontal stabilizer. Please indulge me while I ramble about this. > >ZAC told me that the stabilizer airfoil is symetrical. Since the stabilizer exerts a downward force to balance the moment of the engine around the aircraft cg, the symetrical airfoil must be angled slightly downward to generate a downward force with neutral trim. After touchdown, with the nose up, the stabilizer would be angled upward, generating an upward force that would rotate the A/C around the mains, pushing the nose down. So, to hold the nose up after touchdown, you would need to pull the stick aft, forcing the elevator up. And, what Stan is saying, is that VGs on the underside of the stabilizer will increase up-elevator effectiveness (apparently) by reducing boundary layer separation on the bottom of the elevator. That all makes sense to me now. > >So, I would like to ask Stan the usual questions, how many VG's? Where are they on the stab? Do you have any photos? Thank you for posting your experience. > >This is a very interesting subject. > >Terry > > >-----Original message----- >From: Stanley Challgren challgren@mac.com >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:33:29 -0700 >To: Zenith List zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up > >> >> Andy Shontz: >> >> You asked; >> >> "One thing, it appears as though on landing the nose comes down pretty >> quick. I think other people have noted this one their XLs as well. Is >> it fairly difficult to hold the nose up once the mains hit?" >> >> I assume the XL is similar to the HDS and it was impossible to hold >> the nose up on ours after touchdown. We solved that problem by >> placing VG's on the bottom side of the horizontal stabilizer. With >> the VG's there, you could aerodynamic brake down to about 20 mph. >> >> Your other question: >> >> " I was thinking a tail skid of some sort might be a good idea when I >> get around to building the fuselage, to not only protect the fuselage >> but also the rudder." >> >> The HDS had a very effective tail skid in the tie down ring. I >> discovered how effective it was when I failed to ask my BFR check >> pilot how much he weighed. I had planned on 170# and after grinding >> down the tail skid on takeoff I found he weighed 240#. >> >> Stan >> >> p.s. Let the flames began. >> > > >Terry Phillips >ttp44~at~rkymtn.net >Corvallis MT >601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings >http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:01 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question it is 1/8 Nylon you order in 12"X12" SHEETS FROM Aircraft Spruce. part No. 03-51100 Juan -----Original Message----- >From: John Short >Sent: Jan 19, 2008 7:18 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Question > >On the Horz. Stab. the plans call for a fairlead to go in the cutout of top skin. My question is what is this fairlead 7C5-1 and what do you make it out of. > > >Scratch building 701 > > >CREATIVE SIGNWORKS >1168 Byron Rd. >Kaufman, Tx 75142 >John & Mindy Short >972-962-7464 >Cell: 214-240-3815 >www.creative-sign-works.com >creativesigns@embarqmail.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:57 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up Your idea of adding a bit of weight far aft to help un-stick the nose wheel needs to be factored into weight and balance to see how much you are moving the CG. However, if it makes the plane un-stick more appropriately the chances are that the CG will be well inside the envelope since the mains are still in the design location. A second thought is that if someone needs to add any weight that far back, it would be useful to do so in the form of a more robust tail skid, particularly since the operational affect would be to make a tailstrike more likely. Just thinking out loud, Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Juan Vega To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up to clarify, I do not have the nose sticking issue on my XL. Mine comes off at 20 mph approx. It is a weight issue. you need to adjust weight to the rear or adjust the main wheels forward. Juan ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:43 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Holding Nose up Speaking ONLY for my XL; N493TG. (Serial Number 6-5342) - I can not hold the nose up after landing. 1. Particulars: A. Empty weight :799; empty CG 290 mm (My XL is probably one of the heaviest empty - It has aux tanks, lighting/strobes all around, 6x600 tires/wheels/brakes with an 801 nose fork; dual sticks, and a lot of "stuff" on the panel (EFIS, EIS, AP, T&B,Comm,Xpndr, AS/Atl steam gauges etc).. It has a purring Jab3300 and a ground adjustable Sensenich. B. To "slightly" exceed aft cg (without baggage) would require zero fuel and crew weight of about 540 lbs. To exceed fwd CG would require about a 110 lb pilot with full fuel (48 gal) at take-off. To exceed the CG limits, I would have to be extremely negligent. ((I did refuse to fly a 280# teen age "Young Eagle". I weigh about 200/210 and still had a lot of fuel on board (over gross) and an OAT of 94F - We got him a ride in a twin that day)). C. Trim required during cruise - a little nose up with one SOB, no wing heaviness, roll trim slight to either side depending on fuel state, passenger wt. D. My landing gear was installed with the then build instructions, which put the wheels further aft than the current build instructions, which reverses the landing gear relative to mine, and places the wheels closer to the CG. (GOOD!) E. My elevator trim tab is the smaller one, not the current almost full elevator span one. My full flaps can go to around 27/28 deg - I believe I read that the current flap actuator only provides 20 deg. I can not hold approach speed with trim (I like to use 65 kts on final until over the fence/trees) with flaps (flaps result in a significant nose down pitching moment). F. Total flight hours on 3TG to date: 343. Total: TO/LDG: 672 2. On 3TG's first flight at zero trim, full fuel,.zero flaps, I was going to just let the airplane lift off, but when I was still stuck to the ground at 70 kts, I applied back pressure and was airborne. I believe that 3TG could possible use all the runway and not lift off without some "up" elevator. First landing was zero flaps -3TG flew like.... an airplane- no surprises. 3. As soon as 3TG touches, the nose comes down even with full aft stick. As the nose is coming down, I release back pressure. If I do not release back pressure, the nose will sometimes bounce- height of bounce depends on sink rate. If my speed is a "little" high at touch down and if I keep full up stick, the nose will bounce up higher and come down again and bounce again. I usually use partial to mainly full flaps (depending on cross wind/soft field), but landing without flaps is easier, in my opinion. 4. In my experience, with my XL, with its gear arrangement: THING TO AVOID DURING LANDING!! AVOID a high sink rate landing - low or high airspeed. The nose will bounce you up dratimatically. GO AROUND is recommended or the second bounce will be nasty. If you get too slow close in, you increase your sink rate and pitch authority will not help much in the flare - recommend squeeze in some power to arrest sink and also so you have some energy to flare Tony Graziano N493TG -------------------------- Subject: Re: Holding Nose up From: Edward Moody II (dredmoody@cox.net) Date: Sun Jan 20 - 9:24 AM Your idea of adding a bit of weight far aft to help un-stick the nose wheel needs to be factored into weight and balance to see how much you are moving the CG. However, if it makes the plane un-stick more appropriately the chances are that the CG will be well inside the envelope since the mains are still in the design location. A second thought is that if someone needs to add any weight that far back, it would be useful to do so in the form of a more robust tail skid, particularly since the operational affect would be to make a tailstrike more likely. Just thinking out loud, Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Juan Vega To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Holding Nose up to clarify, I do not have the nose sticking issue on my XL. Mine comes off at 20 mph approx. It is a weight issue. you need to adjust weight to the rear or adjust the main wheels forward. Juan -------------- From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up Andy Shontz: You asked; "One thing, it appears as though on landing the nose comes down pretty quick. I think other people have noted this one their XLs as well. Is it fairly difficult to hold the nose up once the mains hit?" I assume the XL is similar to the HDS and it was impossible to hold the nose up on ours after touchdown. We solved that problem by placing VG's on the bottom side of the horizontal stabilizer. With the VG's there, you could aerodynamic brake down to about 20 mph. Your other question: " I was thinking a tail skid of some sort might be a good idea when I get around to building the fuselage, to not only protect the fuselage but also the rudder." The HDS had a very effective tail skid in the tie down ring. I discovered how effective it was when I failed to ask my BFR check pilot how much he weighed. I had planned on 170# and after grinding down the tail skid on takeoff I found he weighed 240#. Stan p.s. Let the flames began. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:31 PM PST US From: "John Short" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question Thanks to all. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question > > it is 1/8 Nylon you order in 12"X12" SHEETS FROM Aircraft Spruce. part No. > 03-51100 > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- >>From: John Short >>Sent: Jan 19, 2008 7:18 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Question >> >>On the Horz. Stab. the plans call for a fairlead to go in the cutout of >>top skin. My question is what is this fairlead 7C5-1 and what do you make >>it out of. >> >> >>Scratch building 701 >> >> >> >>CREATIVE SIGNWORKS >>1168 Byron Rd. >>Kaufman, Tx 75142 >>John & Mindy Short >>972-962-7464 >>Cell: 214-240-3815 >>www.creative-sign-works.com >>creativesigns@embarqmail.com > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:09 PM PST US From: james dankovich Subject: Zenith-List: Wing tip sheet I am finally getting back to building after a hiatus! Thanks all for keeping me informed during the last 2 years, if at a distance from the actual building process. I am on the wing tip sheet rear bracket, 6-W-9 FOR THE WING TIP SHEET, 6w-9-4... The plans and the assembly guide both make the bracket appear to be riveted to 6w9-6 and 6W9-7 or at least there appears to be 4 rivets and no gaps between the parts ... what is correct, , 90 mm or flush to the 6w9-6 and -7 pieces? Thanks for all your help and discussion... Jim ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:57 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up a while back there was a lot of discussion about main gear spring placement. Zenith advised back then that there are 2 correct placements: straight edge aft and straight wedge forward, depending on the installed engine weight. If your CG is correct and the nose falls through after touchdown - and the straight edge of the gear spring as aft, then reverse it to put the straight edge forward. If it already is straight edge forward then be very careful in adding weight aft and be certain to do all the possible W&B trade studies to be absolutely certain that you are going aft of the limit. Aft CG (even within the limits) makes it VERY easy to overload ANY aircraft as they are a lot more responsive in pitch when CG is aft. All a fwd CG usually does is cause the plane to stall faster - and it makes the plane "groove" more therefore less likely to respond to enthusiastic pitch control inputs. Edward Moody II wrote: Your idea of adding a bit of weight far aft to help un-stick the nose wheel needs to be factored into weight and balance to see how much you are moving the CG. However, if it makes the plane un-stick more appropriately the chances are that the CG will be well inside the envelope since the mains are still in the design location. A second thought is that if someone needs to add any weight that far back, it would be useful to do so in the form of a more robust tail skid, particularly since the operational affect would be to make a tailstrike more likely. Just thinking out loud, Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Juan Vega To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up to clarify, I do not have the nose sticking issue on my XL. Mine comes off at 20 mph approx. It is a weight issue. you need to adjust weight to the rear or adjust the main wheels forward. Juan Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:32 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question and like most commodity items that the aircaft stores sell, this one is also available from Mcmaster.com: 8539K13Nylon 6/6 Sheet 1/8" Thick, 12" X 12"In stock at $9.95 Each Just make sure that you are standing well back from the curb as they may deliver before you get off the phone...and the shipping charge will be reasonable! Always check them for something that can be defined specifically it is 1/8 Nylon you order in 12"X12" SHEETS FROM Aircraft Spruce. part No. 03-51100 Juan -----Original Message----- >From: John Short >Sent: Jan 19, 2008 7:18 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Question > >On the Horz. Stab. the plans call for a fairlead to go in the cutout of top skin. My question is what is this fairlead 7C5-1 and what do you make it out of. > > >Scratch building 701 > > >CREATIVE SIGNWORKS >1168 Byron Rd. >Kaufman, Tx 75142 >John & Mindy Short >972-962-7464 >Cell: 214-240-3815 >www.creative-sign-works.com >creativesigns@embarqmail.com Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:30 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: cranks update Added a new page as promised. Jeff http://aeroliteproducts.com/Crankshafts.html **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:39 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Marvel Schebler 10-4233 (MA3APA) You might check with White Industries, in Bates City MO, at 1-800-821- 7733. Ask for Marc Dickensheets. They have tons of engines, accessorie s, airframe parts, and stuffff.=0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: Timothy Croy =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0A Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:02 AM=0A Subject: Zenith-List: Marvel Schebler 10-4233 (MA3APA)=0A=0A=0A --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Timothy Croy" >=0A=0A All,=0A=0A Looking for a marve l schebler carb, 10-4233, for a Continental A75-8F.=0A Original s tromberg is icing up. Thanks in advance for any tips or=0A commen ======================= ======================= //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List Subject: Zenith-List: 6.4 MM reamer Can anyone on the list give me a source of supply for a 6.4 MM ( .252 dia ) reamer used to ream the holes on the dual stick brackets . Thanks in advance. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 6.4 MM reamer From: "pavel569" http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=334-4092&PMPXNO=2614235&PARTPG=INLMK32 -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159464#159464 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:48 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 6.4 MM reamer You could try Grizzly Tool. But I don't think that can match that exact size. Here are all their reamers: http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=170080 They do have some adjustable reamers but I have no idea how well they work: http://www.grizzly.com/products/searchresults.aspx?q=Adjustable%20Reamer What does Zenith recommend? -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EROC@bright.net Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 4:54 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 6.4 MM reamer Can anyone on the list give me a source of supply for a 6.4 MM ( .252 dia ) reamer used to ream the holes on the dual stick brackets . Thanks in advance. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing tip sheet From: "Ron Lendon" Jim, Welcome back. I framed the whole wing tip, top and bottom and used a joggle in the short piece and fit it behind the top and bottom frame pieces. I also placed my lights differently, no plastic, all metal. http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=1683&log=43427&row=3 -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159486#159486 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 6.4 MM reamer From: "Ron Lendon" I picked up a bunch of reamers from these guys. http://www.wttool.com/ -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159493#159493 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:10 PM PST US From: "THOMAS SMALL" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings > The HDS wing cuts convective better than the HD wing, but the climb rate > for the HD wing is something a HDS wing can't compete with. > If I lived at altitude or in the mountains, I'd be building a set of HD > wings for certain. It's an interesting question, choosing wings for speed > or climbing capability. do not archive When first firming the decision on "What airplane?" to the 601, I thought the best choice to be the HD as it "had" to be for lower time pilots like me who needed a pussycat. This was '98 with the XL just an announcement. A demo flight in old 63Romeo, a TD/HDS powered with an 80 HP 912 with Roger in the left seat, told me that the little tapered wings looked mighty cool and were not going to turn around and bite. Up until that ride the thought of clipping a foot to a foot and a half off of the HD wings had crossed my mind. Larry has written about the same thing. If you have an HD and want a bit less drag and slightly higher wing loading, ever consider that road? Just for thought...jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.