Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:22 AM - VGs (HOWADO1@comcast.net)
2. 02:30 AM - VGs (THOMAS SMALL)
3. 03:00 AM - Re: 6.4 MM reamer (Gerald Scampoli)
4. 06:41 AM - Cool new Zenair plane (John Davis)
5. 06:41 AM - Cool new Zenair plane.... (John Davis)
6. 07:35 AM - Re: VGs (LRM)
7. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (George Harris)
8. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (David Barth)
9. 08:10 AM - Re: Rib forming questions (David Barth)
10. 08:42 AM - Re: Cool new Zenair plane (Jeff)
11. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Curt Thompson)
12. 09:01 AM - Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (stepinwolf)
13. 09:04 AM - Part Stoutness (Art Olechowski)
14. 09:06 AM - Re: VGs ()
15. 09:06 AM - Yarde Metals (Art Olechowski)
16. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (Jaybannist@cs.com)
17. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Gary Boothe)
18. 09:21 AM - Re: Cool new Zenair plane (Art Olechowski)
19. 09:38 AM - Re: Holding Nose up (Stanley Challgren)
20. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? (Art Olechowski)
21. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com)
22. 10:23 AM - Re: VGs (Tim Juhl)
23. 10:42 AM - Re: VGs (Bill Berle)
24. 10:55 AM - Re: Part Stoutness (Bill Berle)
25. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: VGs ()
26. 12:01 PM - First Flight of 601XL 19-5018 (eddies)
27. 12:20 PM - Re: Part Stoutness (MacDonald Doug)
28. 02:03 PM - Re: First Flight of 601XL 19-5018 (n801bh@netzero.com)
29. 02:03 PM - Monday Evening Chat (George Race)
30. 02:29 PM - Re: Part Stoutness (John Marzulli)
31. 03:17 PM - Re: Part Stoutness (Gary Gower)
32. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (James Sagerser)
33. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (John Marzulli)
34. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) (James Sagerser)
35. 08:58 PM - Firewall Boot for sealing Rudder Rods 701 (norriedh)
36. 08:58 PM - Re: First Flight of 601XL 19-5018 (Art Olechowski)
37. 09:03 PM - Re: Part Stoutness (Art Olechowski)
38. 09:51 PM - Re: VGs (Les Goldner)
39. 09:55 PM - Re: VGs (Les Goldner)
40. 10:01 PM - Re: VGs -Why not to install them (Les Goldner)
41. 10:05 PM - Re: VGs -Why not to install them (Les Goldner)
42. 10:17 PM - Re: VGs-why not to use them! (Les Goldner)
Message 1
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Les Goldner,
have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
Howard Carter
Message 2
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> have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
do not archive
...might you mean stab?
Message 3
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McMaster Carr #832A79 .252"
Gerry Scampoli
Hingham, MA
601XL - Corvair
From: EROC@bright.net
Subject: Zenith-List: 6.4 MM reamer
Can anyone on the list give me a source of
supply
for a 6.4 MM ( .252 dia ) reamer
used to ream the
holes on the dual stick brackets .
Thanks in advance.
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.-You IM, we g
ive.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cool new Zenair plane |
From aero-news.net:
Sebring '08: Advanced Aero Partners With Zenair To Develop Vortex
http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID021348-09b5-468c-8d42-07bb93228c87&#d
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cool new Zenair plane.... |
From aero-news.net:
Message 6
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Elevator is correct. They go on the lower leading edge of the elevator.
They are effective in lift for a nose up attitude. JG can give you the
exact location.
LRM www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 4:25 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: VGs
>
>
>> have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
>
> do not archive
>
> ...might you mean stab?
>
>
> --
> 269.19.7/1234 - Release Date: 1/20/2008 2:15 PM
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
That has to be the sharpest looking 701 I've seen. The cowl really perks it
up and I like the way you subdued the angular bottom lines with paint.
Very, very nice.
-George
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Sagerser" <alaskajim@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable
slats)
>
> Will do. Thanks you. Jim
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2008, at 10:37 AM, kmccune wrote:
>
>>
>> Beautiful plane Jim!
>>
>> Please do keep us posted, while I can't afford the Jab I still like to
>> find out more about it.
>>
>> I also like to idea of the Pegastol wings, but I don't know if they are
>> worth (in my case) the extra time, weight and cost. But they sure are
>> cool!
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> --------
>> Kevin
>> N701DZ Reserved
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159237#159237
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 1/18/2008 7:32 PM
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
LOL Olfa King? Thanks for that Scott but a bit
overstated.
I have used a router for cutting as stated here and it
works well when making many of the same parts blanks.
You have to make a set of cutting blocks. Much like
the form blocks but with the added material for the
flanges. It takes a bit of planning since you will
want to use the same tooling holes in the cutting
blocks as you do in the form blocks.
Then you can rough cut your parts blanks, stack 4 or
so in the cutting blocks sandwich and tighten them
down. Then use the router to trim off all the excess
material down to the edge of the cutting blocks. After
getting the cutting blocks set up,we made a complete
set of 701 nose rib blanks in just a few minutes this
way. And of course if you do a good job on your
cutting blocks and form blocks, the ribs will be
identical.
We used a router table but you could just as easily
bolt the cutting blocks right through your table
making the routing very easy. Always messy as hell
but very easy. Eyewear is ESSENTIAL (and a hat unless
you like Al chips in your hair) and A curtain of some
sort for your cutting area will prevent getting Al
chips in every sq. mm of your workshop.
This process of course make more sense if you are
making a project with a friend and can get more use
out of your cutting blocks.
Just my 2 cents.
David
--- cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Curt.Thompson(at)verizon. wrote:
> > Scott,
> >
> > Yes, I was thinking about making rib cutting
> templates like yours (yours are
> > for a CH601, correct?). Could I make the
> templates a little thicker and use
> > a laminating cutter bit and router to cut the
> aluminum blanks?
> >
> > Curt
>
>
> Curt: I cut everything out with snips. My good
> friend David Barth always laughed at me every time
> he saw a picture like this:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/6_7_04_BottomFuse.JPG
> or this:
>
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_9_04_FirewallCutting.JPG
>
> That's because David is the "Olfa-king." I never
> could figure out how to use the Olfa knife.
>
> I enjoyed the careful work of cutting out a perfect
> part. Plus, it gets you ready for all those awkward
> cuts you have to make later when everything is
> assembled and you have to change something!
>
> I think the router idea would make a huge mess but
> to each his own.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL/Corvair Finished & Flying
> Did I just say Finished & Flying? Let me pinch
> myself.
>
>
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rib forming questions |
Hi Glenn.
Gary is bang on with his advice re: the clearance of
the flange.
Gary: I loved your idea of using the dowel. I have
never tried that method but sure will next time.
David
--- Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> The clearance referred to should be good at 1-2mm.
> The important thing is
> that the rib flange does not touch the spar flange,
> and there is not so much
> gap that you lose your edge clearance on your last
> rivet.
>
> If the ends are high on your ribs, just put a large
> dowel under the rib
> (like a closet hanger rod) and roll the rib back and
> forth with gentle
> pressure. The rib will flatten out very easily.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 10
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| Subject: | Cool new Zenair plane |
Do not archive
This is confusing in that the headline says Zenair and the article says AMD
(Mathieu Heintz). It does mention ZAC or any other Zenith companies.
Evidently Zenair is being used as a generic name and ZAC, Zenith in Canada,
CAN-ZAC, Flightcrafters, and Quality Aircraft are not involved, just AMD in
Georgia. If anybody knows the actual case, please let us know. The Heintz
community has grown to the point that I can't keep the companies straight.
Jeff Davidson
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Davis
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:36 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cool new Zenair plane
>From aero-news.net:
Sebring '08: Advanced Aero Partners With Zenair To Develop Vortex
http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID021348-09b5-468c-8d42-07bb93
228c87
<http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID021348-09b5-468c-8d42-07bb9
3228c87&#d> &#d
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
I plan to set up a camping tent in my garage. Then I'll do the router cuts
in the tent. Then I'll shake out the filings when I'm done.
Curt
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Barth
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks?
LOL Olfa King? Thanks for that Scott but a bit
overstated.
I have used a router for cutting as stated here and it
works well when making many of the same parts blanks.
You have to make a set of cutting blocks. Much like
the form blocks but with the added material for the
flanges. It takes a bit of planning since you will
want to use the same tooling holes in the cutting
blocks as you do in the form blocks.
Then you can rough cut your parts blanks, stack 4 or
so in the cutting blocks sandwich and tighten them
down. Then use the router to trim off all the excess
material down to the edge of the cutting blocks. After
getting the cutting blocks set up,we made a complete
set of 701 nose rib blanks in just a few minutes this
way. And of course if you do a good job on your
cutting blocks and form blocks, the ribs will be
identical.
We used a router table but you could just as easily
bolt the cutting blocks right through your table
making the routing very easy. Always messy as hell
but very easy. Eyewear is ESSENTIAL (and a hat unless
you like Al chips in your hair) and A curtain of some
sort for your cutting area will prevent getting Al
chips in every sq. mm of your workshop.
This process of course make more sense if you are
making a project with a friend and can get more use
out of your cutting blocks.
Just my 2 cents.
David
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
I would be very happy to be able to see the 701, but sadly the link that is shown,
does not work, and leads to an error message.
Stepinwolf :(
--------
Live each day, as if it was your last
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159561#159561
Message 13
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List,
Is there any 701 builders who would recommend increasing material thickness of
any particular
airframe part that would help prevent oil canning etc...?
If so which ones?
Art
Scrathin 701
Message 14
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The VG manufacture has tested and recommends that the VG's be placed on the
leading edge of the elevator for more authority during the low speed flaring
of the airplane.
David Mikesell
230 Theresa Drive, #6
Cloverdale, CA 95425
209-224-4485
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 2:25 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: VGs
>
>
>> have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
>
> do not archive
>
> ...might you mean stab?
>
>
>
Message 15
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List,
Has anyone on the list had a bad past experience with ordering from Yarde Metals
such as receiving
severely scratched material that requires re-work before it can be used?
Art
Scratchin 701
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
Enter the link url manually, using the @ sign instead of (at).
"stepinwolf" <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
>
>I would be very happy to be able to see the 701, but sadly the link that is shown,
does not work, and leads to an error message.
>
>Stepinwolf :(
>
>--------
>Live each day, as if it was your last
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159561#159561
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
I did my center section ribs all at once with this method...worked very
well! Don't forget to wear hearing protection so that you don't know what a
p.i.a you are to your neighbors (plausible deniability).
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Curt Thompson
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks?
<Curt.Thompson@verizon.net>
I plan to set up a camping tent in my garage. Then I'll do the router cuts
in the tent. Then I'll shake out the filings when I'm done.
Curt
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Barth
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks?
LOL Olfa King? Thanks for that Scott but a bit
overstated.
I have used a router for cutting as stated here and it
works well when making many of the same parts blanks.
You have to make a set of cutting blocks. Much like
the form blocks but with the added material for the
flanges. It takes a bit of planning since you will
want to use the same tooling holes in the cutting
blocks as you do in the form blocks.
Then you can rough cut your parts blanks, stack 4 or
so in the cutting blocks sandwich and tighten them
down. Then use the router to trim off all the excess
material down to the edge of the cutting blocks. After
getting the cutting blocks set up,we made a complete
set of 701 nose rib blanks in just a few minutes this
way. And of course if you do a good job on your
cutting blocks and form blocks, the ribs will be
identical.
We used a router table but you could just as easily
bolt the cutting blocks right through your table
making the routing very easy. Always messy as hell
but very easy. Eyewear is ESSENTIAL (and a hat unless
you like Al chips in your hair) and A curtain of some
sort for your cutting area will prevent getting Al
chips in every sq. mm of your workshop.
This process of course make more sense if you are
making a project with a friend and can get more use
out of your cutting blocks.
Just my 2 cents.
David
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cool new Zenair plane |
John,
Interesting design, can't wait to see it up close at Oshkosh sometime in the future.
do not archive
Art
--- John Davis <johnd@data-tech.com> wrote:
> From aero-news.net:
>
>
> Sebring '08: Advanced Aero Partners With Zenair To Develop Vortex
>
>
> http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID021348-09b5-468c-8d42-07bb93228c87&#d
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Holding Nose up |
On Jan 19, 2008, at 9:48 PM, Terry Phillips wrote:
>
> Stan
>
> Thank you very much for your post. No flames here. I think you're
> onto something good.
>
> It really got me to thinking about the aerodynamics of the
> horizontal stabilizer. Please indulge me while I ramble about this.
>
> ZAC told me that the stabilizer airfoil is symetrical. Since the
> stabilizer exerts a downward force to balance the moment of the
> engine around the aircraft cg, the symetrical airfoil must be angled
> slightly downward to generate a downward force with neutral trim.
> After touchdown, with the nose up, the stabilizer would be angled
> upward, generating an upward force that would rotate the A/C around
> the mains, pushing the nose down. So, to hold the nose up after
> touchdown, you would need to pull the stick aft, forcing the
> elevator up. And, what Stan is saying, is that VGs on the underside
> of the stabilizer will increase up-elevator effectiveness
> (apparently) by reducing boundary layer separation on the bottom of
> the elevator. That all makes sense to me now.
>
> So, I would like to ask Stan the usual questions, how many VG's?
> Where are they on the stab? Do you have any photos? Thank you for
> posting your experience.
>
> This is a very interesting subject.
Terry:
How many VG's? I believe there were 42 VG's on each side. I used the
same spacing and template on the underside of the stabilizer as I did
on the wing so there would have been about 2.5" between them. They
were placed at 10% of the chord. The below photos are of the wing.
Guess my neck was already stiff from working upside down applying them
so I skipped the photos.
Stan
Any Photos?
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks? |
Curt,
Excellent idea, thanks for sharing I'll do the same.
do not archive
Art
--- Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> I plan to set up a camping tent in my garage. Then I'll do the router cuts
> in the tent. Then I'll shake out the filings when I'm done.
>
> Curt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Barth
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 8:02 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Autocad drawings for CH701 form blocks?
>
>
> LOL Olfa King? Thanks for that Scott but a bit
> overstated.
>
> I have used a router for cutting as stated here and it
> works well when making many of the same parts blanks.
> You have to make a set of cutting blocks. Much like
> the form blocks but with the added material for the
> flanges. It takes a bit of planning since you will
> want to use the same tooling holes in the cutting
> blocks as you do in the form blocks.
>
> Then you can rough cut your parts blanks, stack 4 or
> so in the cutting blocks sandwich and tighten them
> down. Then use the router to trim off all the excess
> material down to the edge of the cutting blocks. After
> getting the cutting blocks set up,we made a complete
> set of 701 nose rib blanks in just a few minutes this
> way. And of course if you do a good job on your
> cutting blocks and form blocks, the ribs will be
> identical.
>
> We used a router table but you could just as easily
> bolt the cutting blocks right through your table
> making the routing very easy. Always messy as hell
> but very easy. Eyewear is ESSENTIAL (and a hat unless
> you like Al chips in your hair) and A curtain of some
> sort for your cutting area will prevent getting Al
> chips in every sq. mm of your workshop.
>
> This process of course make more sense if you are
> making a project with a friend and can get more use
> out of your cutting blocks.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
Hey Jim: Very nice. Too bad you didn't like yellow/black. I really like your
performance numbers
Lynn
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 22
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Who is the VG manufacturer?
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159591#159591
Message 23
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VG's on the elevator and/or stabilizer can give you more powerful pitch
control. Fantastic for low speed flare, rotation, etc. Now guess what
all that extra power can cause at high speed?
Pulling your control stick back can now create much higher G loadings
(meaning stress on the wing) than it could before. VG's on the wings
also increase the attainable AOA, which means that VG's on the wing can
also create a higher amount of stress on the wing.
If you want to put VG's anywhere on the airplane, IMHO it is absolutely
necessary to talk with Mr. Heintz and make sure there will not be a
dangerous side-effect from it.
Bill the New Guy
>
> Elevator is correct. They go on the lower leading edge of the
> elevator. They are effective in lift for a nose up attitude. JG can
> give you the exact location.
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Part Stoutness |
The skins are the part that will oilcan, and because the skins are the
largest part.... increasing the thickness will add some amount weight.
From what I have read the 701 has a "useful load" problem anyway so you
don't want to just go off increasing the skin thickness.
The way to do it is to add lightweight stiffeners. Bend up some .016 L
angles (if you can find thinner metal that's even better) about 3/4 x
3/4. You might have to crimp them (fluting pliers) to make them curve to
match an airfoil or something. You can use the rib form blocks to make
them match the airfoil (but the crimps will be on the opposite part as
they are for the ribs).
Rivet them inside the skins diagonally between the fuselage stations
(I've seen a website or two that shows these stiffeners). Rivet the
curved ones in as "false ribs" between the wing ribs.
Before you do this, contact people with flying 701's and ask them which
parts of their airplane oil-can the most. This iwll give you an idea of
where they are needed most. Top of the wings behind the spars are my
first suspicion.
Bill the New Guy
> Is there any 701 builders who would recommend increasing material thickness of
any particular
> airframe part that would help prevent oil canning etc...?
> If so which ones?
>
Message 25
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http://www.stolspeed.com/content.php?id=28 check them out, these guys have
been doing alot of testing of their VGs on the 701.
David Mikesell
230 Theresa Drive, #6
Cloverdale, CA 95425
209-224-4485
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:18 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs
>
> Who is the VG manufacturer?
>
> Tim
>
> Do not archive
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Working on fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159591#159591
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | First Flight of 601XL 19-5018 |
Hi Fellow Listers,
After 2 years of effort with a slow build kit, my Zodiac 19-5018, took to the air
for the first time on January 11. The test pilot reported only a slightly heavy
right wing. Details of engine temps, speeds and stall characteristics are
on my website;
http://mykitlog.com/eddieseve
The link below is a short video of my XL taxiing back to the hanger after it's
first flight (no sound);
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXL2BpEfgiM
I'd like to thank ALL on the LIST for their help and advice. Special thanks to
Scott Laughlin, Bill Sewell and Lance Gingell for their web sites which where
always very helpful when I got stuck.
Keep pulling those rivets, its so worth it,
Eddie Seve :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159615#159615
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Part Stoutness |
Art, I am not flying yet but have my airframe sitting
on the gear. The large bays of the fuselage sides are
going to be prone to oilcanning. I added one diagnal
brace to each bay on mine. I think the big area
immediately behind the baggage compartment is still
going to oil can so I will probably add another
diagnal brace there once I'm flying.
Mark Townsend recommended that I go with 020 wing
skins to deaden the oil canning tendancy. I have done
this but have not yet started skinning my wings. so
cannot comment on how stiff they will be.
Doug MacDonald
NW Ontario, Canada
Scratch building CH-701
Working on wiring the inst panel
Do not archive
> List,
>
> Is there any 701 builders who would recommend
> increasing material thickness of any particular
> airframe part that would help prevent oil canning
> etc...?
> If so which ones?
>
>
> Art
> Scrathin 701
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight of 601XL 19-5018 |
Congrats to you. The smile will last for a few days too.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "eddies" <eddie.seve@clarity.com> wrote:
Hi Fellow Listers,
After 2 years of effort with a slow build kit, my Zodiac 19-5018, took t
o the air for the first time on January 11. The test pilot reported only
a slightly heavy right wing. Details of engine temps, speeds and stall
characteristics are on my website;
http://mykitlog.com/eddieseve
The link below is a short video of my XL taxiing back to the hanger afte
r it's first flight (no sound);
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXL2BpEfgiM
I'd like to thank ALL on the LIST for their help and advice. Special tha
nks to Scott Laughlin, Bill Sewell and Lance Gingell for their web sites
which where always very helpful when I got stuck.
Keep pulling those rivets, its so worth it,
Eddie Seve :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159615#159615
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
_____________________________________________________________
Click here for project management tools. Easy to implement, adopt and u
se.
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Monday Evening Chat |
Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM EST
http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
CH-701 N73EX (Reserved)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Part Stoutness |
Not flying yet... but I did add some extra "L" onto the fuselage for noise
reduction.
http://701builder.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html
For the triangular area where "top pilot side" is written, I added some 1/4"
sound deadening material to help reduce the noise when uncoordinated. The
whole rear section tends to act like a megaphone.
As for the wings, do consider increasing the thickness of the top skins to
0.020. This will allow for much better handling and fewer blemished. You may
also want to consider using two or three smaller pieces ( overlapping them
at the ribs ) instead of one huge skin.
Good luck!
On Jan 21, 2008 12:17 PM, MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Art, I am not flying yet but have my airframe sitting
> on the gear. The large bays of the fuselage sides are
> going to be prone to oilcanning. I added one diagnal
> brace to each bay on mine. I think the big area
> immediately behind the baggage compartment is still
> going to oil can so I will probably add another
> diagnal brace there once I'm flying.
>
> Mark Townsend recommended that I go with 020 wing
> skins to deaden the oil canning tendancy. I have done
> this but have not yet started skinning my wings. so
> cannot comment on how stiff they will be.
>
> Doug MacDonald
> NW Ontario, Canada
> Scratch building CH-701
> Working on wiring the inst panel
>
> Do not archive
>
> > List,
> >
> > Is there any 701 builders who would recommend
> > increasing material thickness of any particular
> > airframe part that would help prevent oil canning
> > etc...?
> > If so which ones?
> >
> >
> > Art
> > Scrathin 701
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Part Stoutness |
We have 150+ hrs of fun flying in our 701, the wings and fuselage built as in
the plans, yes, it will oilcan if you are not a good pilot :-) oilcanning
is the best "sound alarm" to "shout" to the pilot that the ball is off center
:-)
The 701 is no diferent to any other airplane, the lighter the better it flys.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
701 912S
Building a 601 XL Jab 3300
Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The skins are the part that will oilcan, and because the skins are the
largest part.... increasing the thickness will add some amount weight.
>From what I have read the 701 has a "useful load" problem anyway so you
don't want to just go off increasing the skin thickness.
The way to do it is to add lightweight stiffeners. Bend up some .016 L
angles (if you can find thinner metal that's even better) about 3/4 x
3/4. You might have to crimp them (fluting pliers) to make them curve to
match an airfoil or something. You can use the rib form blocks to make
them match the airfoil (but the crimps will be on the opposite part as
they are for the ribs).
Rivet them inside the skins diagonally between the fuselage stations
(I've seen a website or two that shows these stiffeners). Rivet the
curved ones in as "false ribs" between the wing ribs.
Before you do this, contact people with flying 701's and ask them which
parts of their airplane oil-can the most. This iwll give you an idea of
where they are needed most. Top of the wings behind the spars are my
first suspicion.
Bill the New Guy
> Is there any 701 builders who would recommend increasing material thickness of
any particular
> airframe part that would help prevent oil canning etc...?
> If so which ones?
>
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
Thank you and thanks to all who have commented on "Buzz".
I called Pete at Jabiru USA today to see if I could change my prop to
a climb prop. My current prop os a 64/45. It's easy to blow right
past VNe if I'm not careful. Within 5 minutes Pete had contacted
Sensenich and has another prop, a 68/36 on it's way. My gear has
been extended 4" so should have plenty of clearance. Am eager to see
how this works out. Anyway, thanks again. Jim
On Jan 21, 2008, at 10:39 AM, IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote:
> Hey Jim: Very nice. Too bad you didn't like yellow/black. I really
> like your performance numbers
> Lynn
>
>
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
By changing props, how much time is being added to the testing by the DAR?
DO NOT ARCHIVE!
On Jan 21, 2008 5:09 PM, James Sagerser <alaskajim@cox.net> wrote:
> Thank you and thanks to all who have commented on "Buzz".
> I called Pete at Jabiru USA today to see if I could change my prop to a
> climb prop. My current prop os a 64/45. It's easy to blow right past VNe
> if I'm not careful. Within 5 minutes Pete had contacted Sensenich and has
> another prop, a 68/36 on it's way. My gear has been extended 4" so should
> have plenty of clearance. Am eager to see how this works out. Anyway,
> thanks again. Jim
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 10:39 AM, IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Jim: Very nice. Too bad you didn't like yellow/black. I really like
> your performance numbers
> Lynn
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>in the new year.
>
> *
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: N701ZZ 1st flight (Jab 3300 w/retractable slats) |
If a prop change was a "major change" and my original 40 hours were
flown off, then I would have to fly an additional 5 hours in my test
area then if the test is satisfactory, I would sign it back into
service. A prop change is not major and does not require additional
hours to my understanding.
On Jan 21, 2008, at 6:50 PM, John Marzulli wrote:
> By changing props, how much time is being added to the testing by
> the DAR?
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE!
>
> On Jan 21, 2008 5:09 PM, James Sagerser <alaskajim@cox.net > wrote:
> Thank you and thanks to all who have commented on "Buzz".
>
> I called Pete at Jabiru USA today to see if I could change my prop
> to a climb prop. My current prop os a 64/45. It's easy to blow
> right past VNe if I'm not careful. Within 5 minutes Pete had
> contacted Sensenich and has another prop, a 68/36 on it's way. My
> gear has been extended 4" so should have plenty of clearance. Am
> eager to see how this works out. Anyway, thanks again. Jim
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 10:39 AM, IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Hey Jim: Very nice. Too bad you didn't like yellow/black. I really
>> like your performance numbers
>> Lynn
>>
>>
>>
>> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
>> www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Marzulli
> http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
>
> "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just
> a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
> -Airplane The Movie
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Firewall Boot for sealing Rudder Rods 701 |
Would appreciate suggestions for the firewall boots to seal the rudder rods on
701/Savannah. I followed up on Ben Haas's recommendation of the 2001 Yamaha Mountain
Max snowmobile boots and bought them online at TEam Alpine in USA, but
found them quite heavy and likely too stiff for our Canadian winter. Have searched
all local auto part stores etc but havent found a substitute.
Just had a new suggestion from another list--- the Rakboot from Products That Work
-- and this looks really good --- has anyone here tried them?
I was hoping to find one of those thin silicone boots as they remain flexible in
the cold but so far havent found one.
Thanks
Douglas N
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159695#159695
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of 601XL 19-5018 |
Eddie Congratulations, beautiful looking 601.
do not archive
Art
--- eddies <eddie.seve@clarity.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Fellow Listers,
>
> After 2 years of effort with a slow build kit, my Zodiac 19-5018, took to the
air for the first
> time on January 11. The test pilot reported only a slightly heavy right wing.
Details of engine
> temps, speeds and stall characteristics are on my website;
> http://mykitlog.com/eddieseve
>
> The link below is a short video of my XL taxiing back to the hanger after it's
first flight (no
> sound);
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXL2BpEfgiM
>
> I'd like to thank ALL on the LIST for their help and advice. Special thanks to
Scott Laughlin,
> Bill Sewell and Lance Gingell for their web sites which where always very helpful
when I got
> stuck.
>
> Keep pulling those rivets, its so worth it,
> Eddie Seve :D
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159615#159615
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Part Stoutness |
Gary,
Makes sense, I will take your input into consideration.
do not archive
Thanks,
Art
--- Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> We have 150+ hrs of fun flying in our 701, the wings and fuselage built as
in the plans, yes,
> it will oilcan if you are not a good pilot :-) oilcanning is the best "sound
alarm" to
> "shout" to the pilot that the ball is off center :-)
> The 701 is no diferent to any other airplane, the lighter the better it flys.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
> Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
> 701 912S
> Building a 601 XL Jab 3300
>
>
> Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> The skins are the part that will oilcan, and because the skins are the
> largest part.... increasing the thickness will add some amount weight.
> >From what I have read the 701 has a "useful load" problem anyway so you
> don't want to just go off increasing the skin thickness.
>
> The way to do it is to add lightweight stiffeners. Bend up some .016 L
> angles (if you can find thinner metal that's even better) about 3/4 x
> 3/4. You might have to crimp them (fluting pliers) to make them curve to
> match an airfoil or something. You can use the rib form blocks to make
> them match the airfoil (but the crimps will be on the opposite part as
> they are for the ribs).
>
> Rivet them inside the skins diagonally between the fuselage stations
> (I've seen a website or two that shows these stiffeners). Rivet the
> curved ones in as "false ribs" between the wing ribs.
>
> Before you do this, contact people with flying 701's and ask them which
> parts of their airplane oil-can the most. This iwll give you an idea of
> where they are needed most. Top of the wings behind the spars are my
> first suspicion.
>
> Bill the New Guy
> > Is there any 701 builders who would recommend increasing material thickness
of any particular
> > airframe part that would help prevent oil canning etc...?
> > If so which ones?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 38
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|
No Howard, I have them but don't think I will install the elevator VGs.
(Want to buy them back?).
Here is my reasoning. With the BRS chute behind the baggage compartment the
CG of my 701 is toward the back of the allowed range. Probably due to this,
I can keep the nose up during a power-off stall. Probably the VGs would tend
to hold the nose up even higher in the stall speed range, so I am concerned
that if the engine goes out in a nose high position I may have trouble
dropping the nose... Maybe this wouldn't happen, but why do something that
could potentially cause problems when the plane balances out and I have no
trouble with pitch control now?
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> HOWADO1@comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 1:18 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: VGs
>
>
> Les Goldner,
> have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
> Howard Carter
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
Message 39
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|
I'm getting a little fed up with your crude attempt to sell VGs on this
site. I come to the Zenith-list to give and get unbiased information, not to
see your sales pitch. This is not the place for this. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> skyguynca@skyguynca.com
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:02 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs
>
>
> The VG manufacture has tested and recommends that the VG's be
> placed on the leading edge of the elevator for more authority
> during the low speed flaring of the airplane.
>
> David Mikesell
> 230 Theresa Drive, #6
> Cloverdale, CA 95425
> 209-224-4485
> skyguynca@skyguynca.com
> www.skyguynca.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t@verizon.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 2:25 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: VGs
>
>
> <tjs22t@verizon.net>
> >
> >
> >> have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > ...might you mean stab?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | VGs -Why not to install them |
No Howard, I still have the VGs, but don't think I will install them on my
701 elevators. (Want to buy them back?).
Here is my reasoning. With the BRS chute behind the baggage compartment the
CG of my 701 is toward the back of the allowed range. Probably due to this,
I can keep the nose up during a power-off stall. Probably the VGs would tend
to hold the nose up even higher in the stall speed range, so I am concerned
that if the engine goes out in a nose high position I may have trouble
dropping the nose... Maybe this wouldn't happen, but why do something that
could potentially cause problems when the plane balances-out well now and I
have no trouble with pitch control at any speed.
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> HOWADO1@comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 1:18 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: VGs
>
>
> Les Goldner,
> have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
> Howard Carter
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | VGs -Why not to install them |
No Howard, I still have the VGs, but don't think I will install them on my
701 elevators. (Want to buy them back?).
Here is my reasoning. With the BRS chute behind the baggage compartment the
CG of my 701 is toward the back of the allowed range. Probably due to this,
I can keep the nose up during a power-off stall. Probably the VGs would tend
to hold the nose up even higher in the stall speed range, so I am concerned
that if the engine goes out in a nose high position I may have trouble
dropping the nose... Maybe this wouldn't happen, but why do something that
could potentially cause problems when the plane balances-out well now and I
have no trouble with pitch control at any speed.
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> HOWADO1@comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 1:18 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: VGs
>
>
> Les Goldner,
> have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
> Howard Carter
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | VGs-why not to use them! |
No Howard, I still have the VGs, but don't think I will install them on my
701 elevators. (Want to buy them back?).
Here is my reasoning. With the BRS chute behind the baggage compartment the
CG of my 701 is toward the back of the allowed range. Probably due to this,
I can keep the nose up during a power-off stall. Probably the VGs would tend
to hold the nose up even higher in the stall speed range, so I am concerned
that if the engine goes out in a nose high position I may have trouble
dropping the nose... Maybe this wouldn't happen, but why do something that
could potentially cause problems when the plane balances-out very well now
and I have no trouble with pitch control at any speed.
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> HOWADO1@comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 1:18 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: VGs
>
>
> Les Goldner,
> have you installed the VGs on the elevator?
> Howard Carter
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
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