Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:07 AM - Re: VG's (Bill Berle)
2. 04:03 AM - Re: VG's (kmccune)
3. 04:35 AM - Re: Corvairs (kmccune)
4. 05:13 AM - Taildragger or not (Jonathan Starke)
5. 05:47 AM - Prop Type Selection (dfmoeller)
6. 05:48 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (Kevin L. Rupert)
7. 06:41 AM - Re: VG's (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
8. 06:45 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (Gig Giacona)
9. 07:01 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (LarryMcFarland)
10. 07:09 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (David Barth)
11. 07:24 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (Doug Eatman)
12. 07:36 AM - Re: lenght and pitch (James Sagerser)
13. 07:37 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Larry H)
14. 07:54 AM - Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Dan)
15. 08:09 AM - Re: The virtues of a flying slow....and landing slower.... (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
16. 08:12 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (dfmoeller)
17. 08:21 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Randall J. Hebert)
18. 08:29 AM - Re: The virtues of a flying slow....and landing slower.... (swater6)
19. 08:35 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (nyterminat@aol.com)
20. 08:35 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Larry H)
21. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: Prop Type Selection (Juan Vega)
22. 09:07 AM - 601XL O-200 engine mount (JURU8878)
23. 09:07 AM - Re: Advise (Samm)
24. 09:15 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (dfmoeller)
25. 09:17 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (Gig Giacona)
26. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Prop Type Selection (John Bolding)
27. 09:42 AM - VGs (Keystone Engineering LLC)
28. 09:45 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (Gig Giacona)
29. 09:48 AM - Re: Advise (Gig Giacona)
30. 10:10 AM - VG's (Joe Spencer)
31. 10:30 AM - Re: VG's (kmccune)
32. 10:38 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (Bill Berle)
33. 10:47 AM - Re: VG's (Frank Roskind)
34. 10:57 AM - Re: 601XL O-200 engine mount (Bill Berle)
35. 11:35 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Bill Pagan)
36. 12:27 PM - Re: Advise ()
37. 12:33 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Phil Maxson)
38. 12:35 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Larry H)
39. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Prop Type Selection (Juan Vega)
40. 01:00 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Craig Payne)
41. 01:23 PM - Re: VG's (Les Goldner)
42. 01:36 PM - Re: Taildragger or not (DaveG601XL)
43. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: Prop Type Selection (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
44. 02:18 PM - corvair cores (THOMAS SMALL)
45. 02:23 PM - Re: VG's (DaveC)
46. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: VG's (Bill Berle)
47. 03:52 PM - VG's (Joe Spencer)
48. 03:59 PM - VG's (Joe Spencer)
49. 04:15 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Bill Naumuk)
50. 04:30 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Bill Naumuk)
51. 05:36 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Randall J. Hebert)
52. 06:09 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Larry H)
53. 06:47 PM - Re:Taildragger or not (MaxNr@aol.com)
54. 10:33 PM - Re: Holding Nose up (xl)
Message 1
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Joe Spencer wrote:
> I am one of the renegades who removed the slats In favor of the vg's
> and believe me I will never go back. The improvement in flying
> qualities alone(much more stable and predictable at low
> speed/safer) made the change worth it not to mention a much more
> efficient airplane(pull the power back, go the same speed on less
> gas) with no real world loss in STOL capability.
> is minute and of no consequence and merely incidential to the real
> benefit of vastly improved low speed flying qualities and increased
> efficiency with no real world loss/gain of STOL capability.
> I spent some 40 hours at flight test slats vs. vg's and WHEN IT WAS
> ALL DOWN ON PAPER
If you have real world test results, please post them (hopefully in a
format that allows an easy numerical comparison). I would like to see
what is the actual loss of STOL performance compared to what you get in
return.
Bill
Message 2
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Ben,
Try this link, they taped up the gap. The result was that the slat appears to actuality
become part of the cord.
Give it a try, but be careful. Oh and like said, please post your results.
http://www.stolspeed.com/id/5
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160167#160167
Message 3
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Damn Larry, but you ARE, a busy guy ! 8)
65 to 69 95-110 hp. The harmonic balancer is desirable. I know it sounds kind of
lame to a guy who obviously has done a lot of building and fixing. But Williams
manual is worth the price, if your going this rout. He will also sell you
a warp drive for your application, but only if your a customer.
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160172#160172
Message 4
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| Subject: | Taildragger or not |
Hi All,
I don't want to start a flame war but:
I am seriously thinking about building my second 601XL, I have over 100 hrs on
my current one, and loving the flying, but am missing the building!
I am thinking along the lines of the tail dragger version and would like to know
what you guys think about the tail dragger 601XL vs the Tricycle version of the
601XL.
I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST the 601XL. I have NO tail
dragger experience, but that does not bother me at this stage.
The Tail dragger version just LOOK better, and I assume it is simpler in
construction and maintenance. I do NOT have a problem with the nose gear on
mine, it works great, but I think the tail dragger looks GREAT.
Awaiting your opinions.
Jonathan Starke
601XL
Rotax 912S
100+ hrs and counting
Message 5
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| Subject: | Prop Type Selection |
I'm interested in getting input on which type of prop to use. Wood, woodcomp,
carbon,....?
What is everyone using, and why?
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160182#160182
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger or not |
Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or redheads?
Kevin Rupert
601XL Taildragger
Corvair
Message 7
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I am not a 701 person, but do have a question about removing the slats. Do
you just cover the slot between the wing and slat or do you just remove the
slat? Jerry of Ga.
In a message dated 1/23/2008 5:52:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
n801bh@netzero.com writes:
slat profile is ALOT different then the blunt nose of the wing.
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
What engine are you planing to use and on which plane?
dfmoeller wrote:
> I'm interested in getting input on which type of prop to use. Wood, woodcomp,
carbon,....?
>
> What is everyone using, and why?
>
> Doug
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160193#160193
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger or not |
Hi Jonathan,
Lots of good td aircraft out there, but you need only to look at ground
handling. I prefer
steering much better than differential braking. The other thing, people
comment that materials
on the 601 are light. The tail wheel loads carried thru the fuselage
would concern me though
I've never heard of one damaged by it. You'll go faster, if that counts
for anything, but it seems a lot
to put up with for leaving off a nose wheel. How about you doing a
retractable XL?
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Jonathan Starke wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I don't want to start a flame war but:
>
> I am seriously thinking about building my second 601XL, I have over 100 hrs on
> my current one, and loving the flying, but am missing the building!
>
> I am thinking along the lines of the tail dragger version and would like to know
> what you guys think about the tail dragger 601XL vs the Tricycle version of the
> 601XL.
>
> I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST the 601XL. I have NO tail
> dragger experience, but that does not bother me at this stage.
>
> The Tail dragger version just LOOK better, and I assume it is simpler in
> construction and maintenance. I do NOT have a problem with the nose gear on
> mine, it works great, but I think the tail dragger looks GREAT.
>
> Awaiting your opinions.
>
> Jonathan Starke
> 601XL
> Rotax 912S
> 100+ hrs and counting
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger or not |
Hi Jonathon.
Your lack of taildragger experience may not bother you
but it probably will bother your insurance company.
You should probably just check with them to find out
if insurance will be the same for the taildragger as
for the one you are currently flying. I suspect there
may be quite a premium but all it takes is a phone
call to find out. Good Luck. I believe in Canada at
least, it is hardly worth getting into a taildragger
unless you already have loads of taildragger
experience. The Insurance is way higher. Now if Money
is NOT an issue....that would make the insurance
premium a moot point.
David
--- Jonathan Starke <jonathan@entry.co.za> wrote:
> I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST
> the 601XL. I have NO tail
> dragger experience, but that does not bother me at
> this stage.
>
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger or not |
Jonathan,
Taildraggers are loads of fun, and I agree that they look cooler on the gro
und and in the air. I got my tailwheel endorsement last summer in a Decath
lon and it was well worth the 600 dollar price tag. My thought is to find
a taildragger and instructor, get the training, and if you enjoy the flying
as much as I did, you won't have to wonder which version to build.
There isn't much practical advantage to building the TD, but we build and f
ly for fun.
Doug Eatman
601XL TD Corvair
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.-You IM, we g
ive.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: lenght and pitch |
I'm no expert by any means but know if I already have a basis, for
example, my current prop (64/45) turns up 2700 rpm's static and I
would like to have 3100, then I use this basic rule of thumb: Each
increase/decrease in one inch of pitch should change the rpm's by
about 100. Adding/subtracting an inch in length decreases/increases
rpm by about 150 rpm. In my case, I'm going from a 64/45 to a
68/36. If I add 4" in length, rpm goes down 600-rpm to 2100-rpm
but then decrease pitch by 9" adds 900 rpm so am expecting a static
of around 3,000-rpm. This is just a ROUGH guess but seems close for
a two bladed prop on a slow draggy aircraft like the 701, J-3 etc.
On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:17 PM, LRM wrote:
> I need the for calculating the length and pitch I need for a two
> blade prop. Make it simple please, I only got ten toes.
>
> Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question |
To All,
I have gotten a response from William but first I want to say a few words here.
I have written William back offline and have apologized directly to him if he
took offense to what I had written on this forum. I expressed to him my (our)
frustrations in regards to lack of information and timeliness of his responses
to our orders our emails.
I told him of one other person I know that has decided to sell his Corvair conversion
because he has been "waiting over a year now for his stainless steel
intake manifold and distributor order from WW to come". This same person told
me "he just wants to sell it now (his Corvair Conversion) and move on - he was
going to buy a different powerplant and just go flying". That is his direct
quote. (I had found all this out when I responded to his advertisement he posted
on this forum to sell his Corvair engine.)
I told William I am the middle person here - a Newbie. I have only very limited
amounts of information to go on. I also told him if I can't get any information
coming from him, its EXTREMELY hard to make reasonable, logical decisiona
as to what to do and which way to go. Should I continue on building this conversion,
ALL KNOWING now there is a potential for all my plans to be quashed
for lack of a major component or two - never getting my aircraft off the ground??
Like I said before, not hearing or knowing what is going on from him seems
to only compound the problem. This whole mess could have, should have been
diverted just from one simple phone call or a note on email to say, "hey there,
got your order - updating manual, will ship in XX days - thanks for your order"..........simple
clean. Didn't happen. No phone call either. I know I'm
not the only one - just the STUPID ONE that took it upon himself to quit being
so damned frustrated about it and decided to ASK
WILLIAM MYSELF.......so I did.
***********************************************************************
Here is Williams words back to me - in its entirety and unedited
Larry,
Am I correct that the following paragraph was written to the list by you?
"As for me, I am thinking that the Wynnes have run out of working capital and
aren't able to support the inventory required to fullfill all our orders for
parts. I DID read over on the other sight that one gentleman has had his stainless
steel intake on order since 2006. 2006???? "
If this was actually written to the list by yourself, Let me offer that my records
indicate that you have two manuals on order with us, The installation manual
is in stock, and we are doing a few minor updates to the conversion manual
and expect to print and ship them shortly. We tend to ship both of the manuals
together when they are ordered as a pair.
Our friend Pat only shared the note with you to explain that we are expanding
the inventory. To take this and publicly imply that we are somehow out of funds
is inaccurate and the kind of thing I least like about the Internet.
We have a handful of orders which are in excess of a year old. In each of these
cases the builder has told us that they would gladly wait for any new and improved
model. Notice that you have never heard of a single person saying they
would like their money back and cant get it. Infrequently, some builders plans
change, and we offer full refunds, no questions.
There are plenty of rip off companies in aviation. We are not one of them. I
have a loyal fan base because I am a real homebuilder, and I have earned the respect
of builders. I spend very little time on the computer. and treat E-mail
like mail, not instant messages. All the rip off companies that took money and
disappeared all had great websites and instant email responses, but no pictures
of flying planes and no friends willing to vouch for them.
If you can look at the 10 years of working with homebuilders on my website and
feel that there is a place for you among the world of Corvair builders, good
we will have your manuals on the way in a few days. If not, I will be glad to
refund your money and you can restart your search for a powerplant for your plane,
You can certainly find companies with better email responses, but you will
not find anyone who cares more about builders.
Please feel free to share this in full with the same lists the comments we posted
on.
William Wynne
5000-18 US HWY 17 #247
ORANGE PARK, FL 32003
www.FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html
****************************************************************************
Well, there you have it. I got an answer from William. I'm not sure how much
has been cleared up for some of you. I can only hope some good came of all this.
I also have to add in here, I did tell William if I overstepped my bounds and
have offended him, I wanted to apologize to him (both personally and publicly)
and that I honestly didn't mean any harm. This of course, is all water under
the bridge now and only he can answer that one.
If William does happen to read this posting, he DOES have my full permission
to re-post my personal response to him on this forum in its entirety.
Regards to all,
Happy building and flying,
Larry H
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question |
I would suspect that they are still catching up from the holidays which they
took time off for. I ordered a couple of dvd's before the holidays and
received them promptly. I saw in another posting that someone said that they
had sold there 601 and was speculating that they had done this because they
were out of working capital which seems to me is somewhat out of line
because WW stated some time ago that they were probably going to sell it,
and to say that they are out of money is conjecture and merely starts a
debate which has been beaten to death here before. I have always been happy
with the delivery time of the informational materials which I have ordered
from him. There have always been delay issues with at least some of the
products which he has developed and offered for sale, this is not a new
issue and is common knowledge on this list. We just each have to decide if
this is something we want to deal with in our build. I am still looking for
a core engine, and when I find one I will build it to install in my project
because William has provided the information needed to build the engine. The
engine can be built safely and reliably using his development information
without using any of his parts, so while quicker and easier to bolt on his
parts, I don't understand the mentality of "I can't finish my project
because I don't have a pre-bent intake manifold" or whatever the part may
be. Dan
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:05 PM
Subject: ***SPAM*** Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Randall-
Join the club. Great engine, but all you can do is wait on WW. If you're
in a hurry go with an O-235. I often wonder if that's the way I should have
gone.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall <mailto:randy@rjhebertassoc.com> J. Hebert
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Bill
I ordered the conversion Manual on 1-09-08 but sent the signed waiver a
couple of days later, but still haven't gotten the manual.
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Bill-
904-529-0006 or 386-451-3676. Hope you don't wear out your redial
button.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Pagan <mailto:pdn8r@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Hello All,
Been lurking on the list for some time. Building 601QBK I took delivery of
about 3 weeks ago.
I ordered the Corvair Conversion Manual and 601 installation manual from
William Wynn (paid through paypal) about 3 weeks ago and haven't received it
yet. Got no response to 2 emails and can't find a phone number on his
website.
Doesn't seem like a great way to do business. Has anybody else had any
issues with this? Can anybody give me a phone number for him?
Thanks
Bill
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: The virtues of a flying slow....and landing slower.... |
Scott, what engine do you have and what was the problem that forced you to
land? Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 1/23/2008 6:20:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
waters.scott@comcast.net writes:
http://www.ascensioncitizen.com/articles/2008/01/23/news/news04.txt
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
601XL with a Rotax 912ULS.
I'm more interested in the generic pros/cons of construction type at this point
than I am pitch/dia/blades.
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160214#160214
Message 17
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| Subject: | Intro and William Wynn Question |
Thanks for the effort Larry
I am not like most here I am simply trying to decide on an engine and am
some time away from actually making a decision. I really never worried
about WWs response just added my name in because I am waiting on the
order.
I did get more info from his website regarding the 701 Corvair tho and
will read it with interest.
Randall J Hebert
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry H
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
To All,
I have gotten a response from William but first I want to say a few
words here.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: The virtues of a flying slow....and landing slower.... |
This wasn't me, I just posted the link article I found. I don't know anything
about the pilot or builder. Just sharing with the group.
Scott
--------
601 XL kit
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160225#160225
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger or not |
Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?? :) :) :) do not archive
?
Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or redheads??
? Kevin Rupert?
? 601XL Taildragger?
? Corvair?
?
================================================?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question |
William did respond with another email to me, asking me the person's name that
had made these statements to me. I gave William the name. William told me he
would personally look into it and resolve this immediately. He said there should
be no reason WHY this person would be saying this - if he owes him parts,
he will do his best to clear this up.
William did also say that they have updated their webpage. As for those of us
waiting on conversion manuals, William told me they are making a updates to
them and would ship them out as soon as they are done. If you also ordered the
CH601 installation manual along with the conversion manual, they usually ship
them together, so hold tight and wait a bit longer please....they ARE coming
soon!
Larry
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite condom.
Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: dfmoeller <dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
>Sent: Jan 24, 2008 11:08 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection
>
>
>601XL with a Rotax 912ULS.
>
>I'm more interested in the generic pros/cons of construction type at this point
than I am pitch/dia/blades.
>
>Doug
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160214#160214
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | 601XL O-200 engine mount |
I have an O-200 engine mount that I do not need as we are going with the Corvair
engine. This is for the 601XL. I did not build this mount, rather purchased
it from someone else. If interested email me off list and I will attempt to
get pictures and/or dimensions for you. Please make me an offer.
v/r,
Jud
601XL
judson.rupert@navy.mil
jlr262@yaoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160236#160236
Message 23
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Date of which issuance? My Student Certificate issued in 1965, my
Private first issued in 1966, my first Commercial, instrument rating,
and multiengine all first issued in 1967, my Flight Instructor first
issued in 1967, my Ground instructor issued in 1968, or my Airline
Transport issued in 1988 or my last CFI renewal in 2006.
The above says I'm competent at manipulating the flight controls and
thinking at the same time. It does not imply that I know much about the
best procedures in construction of airframes or engines or a multitude
of other things related to finding parts, tools, etc., or anything other
than manipulating the flight controls and thinking at the same time.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and is entitled to use it.
You don't, however, have to pay attention to either if you so chose.
I'd recommend that anyone take all postings with a grain of salt and do
their own bit research. The building of your aircraft is supposed to be
educational ! Postings should be a start-point, NOT and end-point.
Samuel P. Munn
(Look me up, please)
----- Original Message -----
From: Trainnut01@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Advise
Paul
You touched on what has become a pet peeve for me. I've had my
certificate for forty years but my plastic certificate says 2003. Maybe
its just my ego but I think the date of original issue should be shown.
Carroll Jernigan
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
It was a simple question. What are the relative merits of the different prop types
- in general terms? Why would someone choose a wood GSC over a Warp Drive?
For instance, the wood shatters on impact sometimes saving an overhaul in
case of a prop strike, but it can absorb moisture in rain. That sort of thing.
I specifically pointed out that I wasn't asking for specifics.
Thanks for the smart-ass answer. Very helpful!
Doug
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite condom.
> Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane.
>
> Juan
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160239#160239
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
Exactly.
I'm going with a wooden 64x43 Sensenich on my Corvair because that has shown to
produce better speed than a Warp Drive. And it is a damn sight better looking.
If my plane wasn't going to live in a hanger I'd use a Warp Drive.
Keep in mind though that on a Corvair prop rpm is around 3500. Slower spinning
Rotax are going to need something else.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160240#160240
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
In 62 yrs I have not had that question posed to me yet, but who knows, day
is still young. LO&SLO John
>
> asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite
> condom.
> Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane.
>
> Juan
>
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I feel a need to weigh in to this discussion.
I have flown my 801:
a.. With slats
b.. With slats with VGs
c.. Without slats
d.. and without slats with VGs
The VGs do not add anything when the slats are attached. No improvement on the
high end or at slow speeds.
The plane without slats and without VGs is a faster plane. I don't have my log
book here but it like 8-10 mph faster in cruise but is much faster on the bottom
end. The plane stalls in a predictable manner. It is just much much faster.
The plane without slats but with VGs is as fast as with no slats. It is like 8
or 10 mph faster. The stall is 15 mph or so faster. I don't know why it works
better on the 701 than the 801. With VGs I was over the fence at 65 and with
slats I was over the fence as low as 50.
I did not find the center of lift changing when the slats were removed. I heard
(from this chat room it think) that if you cover the slats, the plane's center
of lift moves forward so much you need to recalculate CG to remain in the proper
% of MAC. I do not think the slats they provide much lift. I think they
accelerate the air over the wing. There is a hole in the wing at about 10%
of MAC.
I have long been an advocate for VGs on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer.
I fly into soft beaches. I have always wanted more elevator control. VGs
on the bottom of the elevator give you more elevator control. The VGs on the
bottom of the HS add more to the elevator authority than the larger tail.
JG (the guy from down under) gave me a set of VGs to experiment with. I thank
him. The first VGs I made were from standard L. 1 1/2" long with the front cut
off at a 45 degree angle. I progressed to 1/2"x1/2"x1/16" AL angle, 1" long
with the front cut at a 45 degree angle. I read a study that said the shape
doesn't matter. I have not found a difference in VGs between the standard L,
1/2 angle or feathers. I would say the feather look nicer than the AL VGs.
One nice thing about having the EXPERIMENTAL on the side of the plane is you can
go into phase 1 testing again. Every time I make a major change to the plane
I approach the flight as if it was the first flight . Some changes work some
do not.
I still have plans to modify the wing tip to increase lift. So many projects too
little time.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
350 hrs
Valdez, Alaska
In storage for winter performing 4th condition inspection.
Anticipating installing floats this spring.
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
Here's a link on the relative merits of wood.
http://www.pipercubforum.com/woodprop.htm
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160248#160248
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None of those. The listed date if issuance is the last time they produced a new
piece of paper or now plastic.
And you are quite right. Any answer you get here should be a starting place.
[quote="heliav8r(at)swbell.net"]Date of which issuance? My Student Certificate
issued in 1965, my Private first issued in 1966, my first Commercial, instrument
rating, and multiengine all first issued in 1967, my Flight Instructor first
issued in 1967, my Ground instructor issued in 1968, or my Airline Transport
issued in 1988 or my last CFI renewal in 2006.
The above says I'm competent at manipulating the flight controls and thinking
at the same time. It does not imply that I know much about the best procedures
in construction of airframes or engines or a multitude of other things related
to finding parts, tools, etc., or anything other than manipulating the
flight controls and thinking at the same time.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and is entitled to use it. You
don't, however, have to pay attention to either if you so chose.
I'd recommend that anyone take all postings with a grain of salt and do their
own bit research. The building of your aircraft is supposed to be educational
! Postings should be a start-point, NOT and end-point.
Samuel P. Munn
(Look me up, please)
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160250#160250
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Bill (and all),
Per your request I went back and dug thru my notes and came up with some
figures for you. While I didn't bother to tabulate the whole mess
hopefully this will suffice for your purposes...
CH 701, 912 ULS, 3 Blade Warp Drive set at 11 degrees. EW with slats
592, EW without slats 579, don't have the EWCG in front of me but
believe it was 12%MAC or close to that. All flights were made with the
same load, about 7 gallons gas, pilot, and a Wire Hair Terrier in the
baggage shelf. Tried to fly as close to 60 F as possible(some variation
here but minimal), and always at 1000 MSL in mostly smooth air. All
speeds were taken from a gps and 4 leg box pattern average and carefully
flown. I flew first with slats installed, then with no slats or vg's and
finally with the vg's in 3 different positions(ended up with the vg's at
8% MAC-permanent position). My plane at that time had round(not
streamlined) lift struts installed. I found that vg placement was
important to predictable takeoff performance.
Cruise speed at 5000rpm, slats installed, 84.0 mph
Cruise speed at 5000rpm, no slats or vg's, 90.25 mph
Cruise speed at 5000 rpm, vg's at 8% MAC, 90.25 mph Note: I flew with
the clean wing for that speed, installed the vg's(2 hours) and went
right back out and flew under near identical conditions and came up with
an identical speed for slats vs. clean. Real world I have found the
cruise speed to be more like 88-89 mph for varying load conditions,
temps etc.; still an increase of 4 to 5 mph over slats.
For takeoff and landing measurements: I have a 250 foot strip with
markers along the sides for judging distances used. While not the best
system it does work for my purposes and for real world evaluation, I
think. At any rate here in Mississippi we have to get by with what we've
got so there you have it. All measurements were done no wind and same
load including the terrier. All takeoffs and landings were what I call
max effort.
Takeoff distance with slats 60 feet average(see the green one on utube)
Takeoff distance without slats or vg's not measured
Takeoff distance with vg's at 8%MAC 60 feet average Note: If it will
make the naysayers happy I will apply a penalty of 10% to the takeoff
distance just to allow for whatever tolerances...even tho I didn't come
up with that in my measurements. That's a whole 6 feet. Like I said
somewhere before-who cares?
Landing distance with slats 180 feet
Landing distance without slats or vg's not measured
Landing distance with vg's 150 feet Note: I never was able to match ZAC
figures for landing(140 feet I think it was) even tho I often lock the
brakes for rollout(skidout). The big difference for me with the vg's is
that the thing is so much more controllable at low speed allowing for a
helluva lot more precise approach/touchdown.I found the 701 with slats
to be fairly demanding when really slowed up(Roger at ZAC says fly 50
mph-kind of like a Cessna150 I thought) and things can unravel fast
close in.The vg's cured a lot of that for me. Yes there is some
flattening of the power off glide angle but once again the slip is
available for obstacles so I call that a nonissue.
The big deal with the vg's is improved lowspeed handling, reduced
buffet, and better fuel economy or higher cruise take your pick.I would
rather that nobody put vg's on because of anything I say...I did it for
me only and with no intention of ever getting involved in all this BS
discussion...but the 701 is a different animal from what most of us have
ever fooled with-the numbers are all so small that a huge percentage
increase/decrease amounts to nothing in the real world and well the
thing has such odd flight characteristics that unless one has first hand
experience with it then chances are he just really doesn't know what
he's talking about...transfer of knowledge/experience from other
seemingly related areas isn't necessarily as valid as one might think
cause it's so different, blah, blah, blah. At any rate, don't take my
word for it do your own testing and whatnot and make up your own mind.
But don't knock it til you've tried it.
Best to all,
Joe
BTW: The streamline lift struts make an even more dramatic performance
change than the vg's. Cruise speed goes up even more, climb rate goes
up, buffet decreases, and the glide angle is flattened out even
more(slip it man) and curiously nobody ever downs those.
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Joe,
Thank you for taking the time.
Kevin
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160260#160260
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger or not |
nyterminat@aol.com wrote:
> Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) do not archive
Redheads ! Redheads! Redheads! Beat me! Tie me! Whip me!!!
Tailwheels will usually save some amount of weight and reduce some
amount of drag, as well as make the plane more attractive. That is a
pretty significant set of benefits.
On balance you will have to learn a new skill (always a good idea), you
will always have to be more alert on landing (another really good idea)
and your insurance will be affected because of the people who were NOT
skilled or alert in the past.
IMHO, the insurance is something that will be a thorn in your side once
a year. The benefits if lighter weight, less drag, and a cooler looking
airplane are enjoyed on every single flight.
Chris Heintz is a brilliant designer, and he is obviously the poster boy
for "form follows function". He admits his designs are not optimized for
appearance, any more than the claw hammer or the ironsmith's anvil are
optimized for appearance. So if there is something simple you can do to
make the airplane more pretty, that does not negatively affect the
safety or usability of the design, it might be a nice bargain that only
requires you become a little better airplane driver... which you will
soon see is an even bigger reward. My opinion only, I've owned
nosewheels and tailwheels and enjoyed them both.
Bill
nyterminat@aol.com wrote:
> Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) do not archive
>
> <klr12@psu.edu <mailto:klr12@psu.edu>>
>
> Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or
> redheads?
> Kevin Rupert
> 601XL Taildragger
> Corvair
>
>
> ================================================
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>!
> *
>
>
> *
Message 33
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this seems interesting. Has anyone flown the 600 series with VG's? Maybe
you could get really good cruise and good short field performance. Also, h
ow do slats or VG's affect soft field performance?
From: jpspencer@cableone.netTo: Zenith-List@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-Li
st: VG'sDate: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:07:29 -0600
Bill (and all),
Per your request I went back and dug thru my notes and came up with some fi
gures for you. While I didn't bother to tabulate the whole mess hopefully t
his will suffice for your purposes...
CH 701, 912 ULS, 3 Blade Warp Drive set at 11 degrees. EW with slats 592, E
W without slats 579, don't have the EWCG in front of me but believe it was
12%MAC or close to that. All flights were made with the same load, about 7
gallons gas, pilot, and a Wire Hair Terrier in the baggage shelf. Tried to
fly as close to 60 F as possible(some variation here but minimal), and alwa
ys at 1000 MSL in mostly smooth air. All speeds were taken from a gps and 4
leg box pattern average and carefully flown. I flew first with slats insta
lled, then with no slats or vg's and finally with the vg's in 3 different p
ositions(ended up with the vg's at 8% MAC-permanent position). My plane at
that time had round(not streamlined) lift struts installed. I found that vg
placement was important to predictable takeoff performance.
Cruise speed at 5000rpm, slats installed, 84.0 mph
Cruise speed at 5000rpm, no slats or vg's, 90.25 mph
Cruise speed at 5000 rpm, vg's at 8% MAC, 90.25 mph Note: I flew with the c
lean wing for that speed, installed the vg's(2 hours) and went right back o
ut and flew under near identical conditions and came up with an identical s
peed for slats vs. clean. Real world I have found the cruise speed to be mo
re like 88-89 mph for varying load conditions, temps etc.; still an increas
e of 4 to 5 mph over slats.
For takeoff and landing measurements: I have a 250 foot strip with markers
along the sides for judging distances used. While not the best system it do
es work for my purposes and for real world evaluation, I think. At any rate
here in Mississippi we have to get by with what we've got so there you hav
e it. All measurements were done no wind and same load including the terrie
r. All takeoffs and landings were what I call max effort.
Takeoff distance with slats 60 feet average(see the green one on utube)
Takeoff distance without slats or vg's not measured
Takeoff distance with vg's at 8%MAC 60 feet average Note: If it will make
the naysayers happy I will apply a penalty of 10% to the takeoff distance j
ust to allow for whatever tolerances...even tho I didn't come up with that
in my measurements. That's a whole 6 feet. Like I said somewhere before-who
cares?
Landing distance with slats 180 feet
Landing distance without slats or vg's not measured
Landing distance with vg's 150 feet Note: I never was able to match ZAC fig
ures for landing(140 feet I think it was) even tho I often lock the brakes
for rollout(skidout). The big difference for me with the vg's is that the t
hing is so much more controllable at low speed allowing for a helluva lot m
ore precise approach/touchdown.I found the 701 with slats to be fairly dema
nding when really slowed up(Roger at ZAC says fly 50 mph-kind of like a Ces
sna150 I thought) and things can unravel fast close in.The vg's cured a lot
of that for me. Yes there is some flattening of the power off glide angle
but once again the slip is available for obstacles so I call that a nonissu
e.
The big deal with the vg's is improved lowspeed handling, reduced buffet, a
nd better fuel economy or higher cruise take your pick.I would rather that
nobody put vg's on because of anything I say...I did it for me only and wit
h no intention of ever getting involved in all this BS discussion...but the
701 is a different animal from what most of us have ever fooled with-the n
umbers are all so small that a huge percentage increase/decrease amounts to
nothing in the real world and well the thing has such odd flight character
istics that unless one has first hand experience with it then chances are h
e just really doesn't know what he's talking about...transfer of knowledge/
experience from other seemingly related areas isn't necessarily as valid a
s one might think cause it's so different, blah, blah, blah. At any rate, d
on't take my word for it do your own testing and whatnot and make up your o
wn mind. But don't knock it til you've tried it.
Best to all,
Joe
BTW: The streamline lift struts make an even more dramatic performance chan
ge than the vg's. Cruise speed goes up even more, climb rate goes up, buffe
t decreases, and the glide angle is flattened out even more(slip it man) an
d curiously nobody ever downs those.
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo
ur "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL O-200 engine mount |
Can a nyone tell me if this will also fit a 701? If so I might be
interested.
JURU8878 wrote:
>
> I have an O-200 engine mount that I do not need as we are going with the Corvair
engine. This is for the 601XL. I did not build this mount, rather purchased
it from someone else. If interested email me off list and I will attempt to
get pictures and/or dimensions for you. Please make me an offer.
>
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question |
Thanks for your efforts Larry! I think it probably makes all of us a little more
comfortable. I don't doubt William's sincerity and am certain of his efforts
and very comfortable with his engineering of the Corvair powerplant. I based
my whole choice on going with the XL on using the corvair engine and it is
certainly easy to get into the panic mode when you start hearing of problems.
i am really anxious to get a core (although they seem tough to find here in Florida
as some guy in Orange Park already got em all :-) ) and get started on
the engine package. I know these things don't happen overnight and am very pleased
to hear of Williams attention to this matter.
Larry H <skyridersbn@yahoo.com> wrote: To All,
I have gotten a response from William but first I want to say a few words here.
I have written William back offline and have apologized directly to him if he
took offense to what I had written on this forum. I expressed to him my (our)
frustrations in regards to lack of information and timeliness of his responses
to our orders our emails.
I told him of one other person I know that has decided to sell his Corvair conversion
because he has been "waiting over a year now for his stainless steel
intake manifold and distributor order from WW to come". This same person told
me "he just wants to sell it now (his Corvair Conversion) and move on - he was
going to buy a different powerplant and just go flying". That is his direct
quote. (I had found all this out when I responded to his advertisement he posted
on this forum to sell his Corvair engine.)
I told William I am the middle person here - a Newbie. I have only very limited
amounts of information to go on. I also told him if I can't get any information
coming from him, its EXTREMELY hard to make reasonable, logical decisiona
as to what to do and which way to go. Should I continue on building this conversion,
ALL KNOWING now there is a potential for all my plans to be quashed
for lack of a major component or two - never getting my aircraft off the ground??
Like I said before, not hearing or knowing what is going on from him seems
to only compound the problem. This whole mess could have, should have been
diverted just from one simple phone call or a note on email to say, "hey there,
got your order - updating manual, will ship in XX days - thanks for your order"..........simple
clean. Didn't happen. No phone call either. I know I'm
not the only one - just the STUPID ONE that took it upon himself to quit being
so damned frustrated about it and decided to ASK
WILLIAM MYSELF.......so I did.
***********************************************************************
Here is Williams words back to me - in its entirety and unedited
Larry,
Am I correct that the following paragraph was written to the list by you?
"As for me, I am thinking that the Wynnes have run out of working capital and
aren't able to support the inventory required to fullfill all our orders for
parts. I DID read over on the other sight that one gentleman has had his stainless
steel intake on order since 2006. 2006???? "
If this was actually written to the list by yourself, Let me offer that my records
indicate that you have two manuals on order with us, The installation manual
is in stock, and we are doing a few minor updates to the conversion manual
and expect to print and ship them shortly. We tend to ship both of the manuals
together when they are ordered as a pair.
Our friend Pat only shared the note with you to explain that we are expanding
the inventory. To take this and publicly imply that we are somehow out of funds
is inaccurate and the kind of thing I least like about the Internet.
We have a handful of orders which are in excess of a year old. In each of these
cases the builder has told us that they would gladly wait for any new and improved
model. Notice that you have never heard of a single person saying they
would like their money back and cant get it. Infrequently, some builders plans
change, and we offer full refunds, no questions.
There are plenty of rip off companies in aviation. We are not one of them. I
have a loyal fan base because I am a real homebuilder, and I have earned the respect
of builders. I spend very little time on the computer. and treat E-mail
like mail, not instant messages. All the rip off companies that took money and
disappeared all had great websites and instant email responses, but no pictures
of flying planes and no friends willing to vouch for them.
If you can look at the 10 years of working with homebuilders on my website and
feel that there is a place for you among the world of Corvair builders, good
we will have your manuals on the way in a few days. If not, I will be glad to
refund your money and you can restart your search for a powerplant for your plane,
You can certainly find companies with better email responses, but you will
not find anyone who cares more about builders.
Please feel free to share this in full with the same lists the comments we posted
on.
William Wynne
5000-18 US HWY 17 #247
ORANGE PARK, FL 32003
www.FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html
****************************************************************************
Well, there you have it. I got an answer from William. I'm not sure how much
has been cleared up for some of you. I can only hope some good came of all this.
I also have to add in here, I did tell William if I overstepped my bounds and
have offended him, I wanted to apologize to him (both personally and publicly)
and that I honestly didn't mean any harm. This of course, is all water under
the bridge now and only he can answer that one.
If William does happen to read this posting, he DOES have my full permission
to re-post my personal response to him on this forum in its entirety.
Regards to all,
Happy building and flying,
Larry H
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 36
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Amen. It wouldn't cost the FAA anything to merely list dates and ratings
as earned, such as:
Student license - 1958
Private ASEL- 1959
ASES 1963
Commercial 1969
MSEL 1972
ATR 1980 , and so on.
Paul Rodriguez
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Trainnut01@aol.com<mailto:Trainnut01@aol.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Advise
Paul
You touched on what has become a pet peeve for me. I've had my
certificate for forty years but my plastic certificate says 2003. Maybe
its just my ego but I think the date of original issue should be shown.
Carroll Jernigan
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in
shape<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030000000
2489> in the new year.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Intro and William Wynn Question |
Larry,
I thought you were leaving the list? That was many emails ago.
I love my Corvair. Coolest part of the plane.Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
From: LHusky@aol.comDate: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:14:20 -0500Subject: Re: Zenit
h-List: Intro and William Wynn QuestionTo: zenith-list@matronics.com
I have given up on the Corvair and I am going with another engine. I have
emailed 17 times with no response to any of them. I attended his class in
Cloverdale, California Oct. 2006, which we had to pay to attend. His respo
nse then was to respond to emails faster. Well, at least I got a free hat
out of it. Dealing with Tom Henderson is about the same. At least I am lo
cal and can take him to court!
Larry Husky
??????????
In a message dated 1/23/2008 5:08:31 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, naumuk@all
tel.net writes:
Randall-
Join the club. Great engine, but all you can do is wait on WW. If you'r
e in a hurry go with an O-235. I often wonder if that's the way I should ha
ve gone.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall J. Hebert
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Bill
I ordered the conversion Manual on 1-09-08 but sent the signed waiver a cou
ple of days later, but still haven't gotten the manual.
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill NaumukSent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008
5:37 PMTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and Wi
lliam Wynn Question
Bill-
904-529-0006 or 386-451-3676. Hope you don't wear out your redial butto
n.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Pagan
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Hello All,Been lurking on the list for some time. Building 601QBK I took d
elivery of about 3 weeks ago.I ordered the Corvair Conversion Manual and 60
1 installation manual from William Wynn (paid through paypal) about 3 weeks
ago and haven't received it yet. Got no response to 2 emails and can't f
ind a phone number on his website. Doesn't seem like a great way to do bus
iness. Has anybody else had any issues with this? Can anybody give me a ph
one number for him?ThanksBillBill PaganEAA Tech Counselor #4395
Be a better friend, newshound, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120
08
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question |
One thing that was suggested to me is to try to locate one of your local car clubs.
The person that made this suggestion to me also suggested seeing if there
is a Corvair Club specifically around in your area. He told me the cores we
are looking for are NOT the cores the clubs are wanting and we should be able
to find them for little or nothing....the clubs are wanting the turbo charged
or higher performance blocks...one gentleman I chatted with told me he found
2 good cores for $150 for both. I would give $150 each! LOL.
Hope these suggestions help everyone out.
Larry H
---------------------------------
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
anytime! my pleasure.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: dfmoeller <dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
>Sent: Jan 24, 2008 12:12 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection
>
>
>It was a simple question. What are the relative merits of the different prop
types - in general terms? Why would someone choose a wood GSC over a Warp Drive?
For instance, the wood shatters on impact sometimes saving an overhaul in
case of a prop strike, but it can absorb moisture in rain. That sort of thing.
>
>I specifically pointed out that I wasn't asking for specifics.
>
>Thanks for the smart-ass answer. Very helpful!
>
>Doug
>
>
>amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
>> asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite condom.
>> Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> --
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160239#160239
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Intro and William Wynn Question |
This is a link to the national Corvair Society of America: www.corvair.org
A list of all 123 local chapters is here: www.corvair.org/csachap.php
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry H
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
One thing that was suggested to me is to try to locate one of your local car
clubs. The person that made this suggestion to me also suggested seeing if
there is a Corvair Club specifically around in your area. He told me the
cores we are looking for are NOT the cores the clubs are wanting and we
should be able to find them for little or nothing....the clubs are wanting
the turbo charged or higher performance blocks...one gentleman I chatted
with told me he found 2 good cores for $150 for both. I would give $150
each! LOL.
Hope these suggestions help everyone out.
Larry H
Message 41
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Joe,
Do you know how much further back, if any, that you changed the center of
lift on your wing by removing the slats and how this impacts the allowed CG
for your 701?
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Bill Berle
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:02 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VG's
>
> --> <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Joe Spencer wrote:
> > I am one of the renegades who removed the slats In favor
> of the vg's
> > and believe me I will never go back. The improvement in flying
> > qualities alone(much more stable and predictable at low
> > speed/safer) made the change worth it not to mention a much more
> > efficient airplane(pull the power back, go the same speed on less
> > gas) with no real world loss in STOL capability.
> > is minute and of no consequence and merely incidential to the real
> > benefit of vastly improved low speed flying qualities and increased
> > efficiency with no real world loss/gain of STOL capability.
> > I spent some 40 hours at flight test slats vs. vg's and WHEN IT WAS
> > ALL DOWN ON PAPER
>
> If you have real world test results, please post them
> (hopefully in a format that allows an easy numerical
> comparison). I would like to see what is the actual loss of
> STOL performance compared to what you get in return.
>
> Bill
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger or not |
Jonathan,
You are kind of where I was when I first started thinking about building my 601
(except for the fact that you actually HAVE one!)
I was considering a taildragger even though I had minimal TD experience. I asked
a few insurance reps at Oshkosh and they did their best to hold back on the
laughter. Since we essentially live in a era of regulation by insurance, I gave
up the TD idea as a matter of pure folly on my part. In the meantime, I got
my TD endorsement last fall and had a blast doing so. Somewhere in the back
of my mind I wish I was building a TD, but not enough to convert what I already
have into one. Hey that's an idea.......when I get post-builders stress disorder,
I can convert it to a TD! What a concept!
I say you go for it! Either way, get your TD endorsement, especially in an old
rag wing that makes you learn the finer points of rudder pedals.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160301#160301
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Type Selection |
I am 73 years old, What the heck are they talking about? :-)
In a message dated 1/24/2008 12:21:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jnbolding1@teleshare.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
In 62 yrs I have not had that question posed to me yet, but who knows, day
is still young. LO&SLO John
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>
> asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite
> condom.
> Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane.
>
> Juan
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 44
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If you're a corvair zealot you may know of this place. Not far from
where I reside it was full of engines the last time I looked. I was
introduced to someone from the "Ranch" at a flyin over the summer by Ray
Blondin who founded Venturay, but didn't remember the name for more than
the duration of the conversation. Ray said his supply of engines began
and ended at the Ranch. They know the years you might be in search of.
Ray was killed in the crash of his Corvair powered HDS back in November.
I have no details, you can check the prelim report on the ntsb.
http://www.corvairranch.com/index.htm
do not archive
Message 45
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jpspencer(at)cableone.net wrote:
> Bill (and all),
> Per your request I went back and dug thru my notes and came up with some figures
for you. While I didn't bother to tabulate the whole mess hopefully this
will suffice for your purposes...
>
Thank you thank you thank you
Not just for the results of the VG trials, or for the bit about strut cleanup but
for the reference to the 250' foot strip you use. I have been wondering how
much land I need to set aside and improve for use as my airstrip and now I know
some real world numbers. I now know that 240x40 (plus climb room on either
end) should be realistic.
--------
Dave
Alvin, Texas
CH-701 wanna-be-soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160310#160310
Message 46
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Hey wait a minute... I didn't receive the message that starts with this
paragraph below... does it contain the numbers or test results? I got
several other messages but I didn't get the originalversion of this:
> jpspencer(at)cableone.net wrote:
>
>> Bill (and all),
>> Per your request I went back and dug thru my notes and came up with some figures
for you. While I didn't bother to tabulate the whole mess hopefully this
will suffice for your purposes...
>>
>>
Message 47
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Thank you thank you thank you
Not just for the results of the VG trials, or for the bit about strut
cleanup but
for the reference to the 250' foot strip you use. I have been wondering
how
much land I need to set aside and improve for use as my airstrip and now
I know
some real world numbers. I now know that 240x40 (plus climb room on
either
end) should be realistic.
Dave
I wouldn't consider 250' to be an adequate everyday strip. I use it for
testing, grins and such and it does have clearways on either end so if
over/under shot there is no damage. I would think at least 500' minimum
with clear approaches would be a comfortable, everyday use minimum, and
only then if the pilot is proficient. If I could get more I would.
Joe
Message 48
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Do you know how much further back, if any, that you changed the center
of
lift on your wing by removing the slats and how this impacts the allowed
CG
for your 701?
Les
Les
I don't know about the center of lift. The EWCG moved from 12% to 14%
MAC if I remember correctly but do not have the wt/bal with me to
verify. The cg will move aft tho that's for sure as the slats weighed
13#. I can't tell any difference in the way it flies, in that respect.
Joe
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question |
Randall-
Can't give you advice on the 701, but from what I've heard, it is a
little too much. Address your questions to the 701 people for best
results.
Good building!
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall J. Hebert
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:13 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Bill
I am currently studying (reading up on) the VW and the Corvair. I
understand the Corvair may be a little much for the 701 ???
My biggest decision maker now is $$$
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:05 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Randall-
Join the club. Great engine, but all you can do is wait on WW. If
you're in a hurry go with an O-235. I often wonder if that's the way I
should have gone.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall J. Hebert
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Bill
I ordered the conversion Manual on 1-09-08 but sent the signed
waiver a couple of days later, but still haven't gotten the manual.
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:37 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Bill-
904-529-0006 or 386-451-3676. Hope you don't wear out your
redial button.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Pagan
To: Zenith List
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Hello All,
Been lurking on the list for some time. Building 601QBK I took
delivery of about 3 weeks ago.
I ordered the Corvair Conversion Manual and 601 installation
manual from William Wynn (paid through paypal) about 3 weeks ago and
haven't received it yet. Got no response to 2 emails and can't find a
phone number on his website.
Doesn't seem like a great way to do business. Has anybody else had
any issues with this? Can anybody give me a phone number for him?
Thanks
Bill
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
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Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question |
Larry-
Once again, I think everyone's in the same boat, and for the same
parts.
Hang in there.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Hi Bill,
I too ordered a rebuild manual and installation manual for the 601. I
ordered mine of Jan 6th and I mailed the release out to him that same
day. I too wrote them one email and as of yet, no manuals or any
response. Grace did write this before they left and this IS on their
website:
"Due to a late start, we will be extending our break from answering
the phone or e-mail through Jan. 8, 2008. In the meantime, in the spirit
of my New Year's Resolution to celebrate Christmas every day, I will
soon be sending out all Baffle Kits and every Cowling Kit we have. I
waited until after the Holiday Mailing Season to post these because they
are precision bent expensive parts that certainly didn't need to be
unbent in the Christmas Crush. We shipped out a few more engines before
Christmas, and a few more will also be going out shortly for arrival in
plenty of time for Spring Break (again, apologies for the delays). I
mailed several Distributors Dec. 31, 2007, including one to our Spanish
Piet builder Jorge, plus 601 Intakes and Exhausts. All DVDs will go out
next week as well. The majority of other items please consider Class "B"
till the eighth."
Now I did also notice that they were planning to go to Sebring for the
LSA Expo during Jan, 17th to 20th 2008. It DOES take time to finish
their business there, pack up and drive back home. I'm not making any
excuses for them, but I DO know how it is when you are traveling...and
trying to conduct business along the way (to anyone that will listen to
you about your product)
Here is the clincher for me. I saw where a gentleman on here was
advertising his NEW Corvair engine and trying to sell it (has ZERO
runtime hours). He said the only two things he was missing was the dual
distributor and the intake manifold. He told me he has had both of
these items on order now for a full YEAR and is tired of waiting on them
- he wants to go flying he said. I can totally understand that. I TOO
am starting to wonder if I SHOULD or SHOULDN'T take the time to do this
Corvair conversion, ESPECIALLY if I can't get any support for it. You
are absolutely right, this is NOT a way to do business. I am giving the
Wynnes a chance to get back home, get settled and take care of some of
their open ends they had before they left. I will try sending them
another email and give them a call in a week or so. If anyone DOES get a
response out of them, would you please keep us all informed so we know
they are available again?
Thanks
Larry H
Message 51
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| Subject: | Intro and William Wynn Question |
Thanks Bill, you too
Randall J Hebert
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Randall-
Can't give you advice on the 701, but from what I've heard, it is a
little too much. Address your questions to the 701 people for best
results.
Good building!
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall J. Hebert <mailto:randy@rjhebertassoc.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:13 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Bill
I am currently studying (reading up on) the VW and the Corvair.
I understand the Corvair may be a little much for the 701 ???
My biggest decision maker now is $$$
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:05 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question
Randall-
Join the club. Great engine, but all you can do is wait on
WW. If you're in a hurry go with an O-235. I often wonder if that's the
way I should have gone.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randall J. Hebert <mailto:randy@rjhebertassoc.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn
Question
Bill
I ordered the conversion Manual on 1-09-08 but sent the
signed waiver a couple of days later, but still haven't gotten the
manual.
Randall J Hebert
Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc
Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers
Lafayette, Louisiana
PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:37 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn
Question
Bill-
904-529-0006 or 386-451-3676. Hope you don't wear
out your redial button.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Pagan <mailto:pdn8r@yahoo.com>
To: Zenith List
<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn
Question
Hello All,
Been lurking on the list for some time.
Building 601QBK I took delivery of about 3 weeks ago.
I ordered the Corvair Conversion Manual and 601
installation manual from William Wynn (paid through paypal) about 3
weeks ago and haven't received it yet. Got no response to 2 emails and
can't find a phone number on his website.
Doesn't seem like a great way to do business.
Has anybody else had any issues with this? Can anybody give me a phone
number for him?
Thanks
Bill
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
________________________________
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Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question |
Thanks Bill. I appreciate the words of encouragement. I DID get a response from
William this morning. He basically wrapped it all up in a nutshell and told
me they updated their website and most all my questions will be answered on
it. You might want to check it out. They have added a bunch of great photos
(so use other builders can drool over...lol). He did put a lot of information
on there. It answered all my basic questions and he DID put my mind to rest.
William IS a very understanding and gracious gentleman - his biggest problem
is he's just so damned busy all the time. I'm surprised he takes the time to
sleep!
Regards
Larry H
---------------------------------
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re:Taildragger or not |
Ask your wife. I asked mine and she said "nosewheel, please."
Bob 601XL Do not archive
**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Holding Nose up |
When I land well the nose stays up.
When I'm off, the nose drops.
The best landings I have are smooth.
I hold the nose up + rv pilots say
'That's the way to land.' Actually, that's
what an rv friend of my said when we landed
when I flew with hin at the Arlington flyin.
We work together on the ramp.
(The rv pilot reference is supposed to be humorous.)
The nose will drop if I hit the runway too fast.
If I'm in good form, I'm easing the stick back
and touch the runway with a very low descent rate.
And near stall speed. Then I can hold the nose up.
With a bit of power I can taxi for a mile+ with
the nose up. (Boeing Field has a 2 mile long runway.)
If I land on 34L I ask for a long landing. And I
fly down the center line at 10 feet AGL and 80 knots
and touch down at A2 and turn right at A1. I try to
set the nose down gently. I'd rather not taxi the
2 miles.
Yes, I've had the nose drop hard. Not a good landing.
I don't like that. I earned my instrument rating last
year. It took longer than I expected. I flew C172s
for that. It is easier to set the C172 nose down gently
than it is with the CH601XL. But I still like the XL
better than the Cessna. Off the ground at the numbers
at BFI and I'm confident flying down the runway and
touching down near the end.
Oh yeah, the XL does great 60 degree steep turns with
the canopy full of the sky. Not as fun in a high wing.
Anyone want to go flying !!!!!!!!
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XL, 504 hours
Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49 wood prop
do not archive
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