---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/24/08: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:07 AM - Re: VG's (Bill Berle) 2. 04:03 AM - Re: VG's (kmccune) 3. 04:35 AM - Re: Corvairs (kmccune) 4. 05:13 AM - Taildragger or not (Jonathan Starke) 5. 05:47 AM - Prop Type Selection (dfmoeller) 6. 05:48 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (Kevin L. Rupert) 7. 06:41 AM - Re: VG's (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 8. 06:45 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (Gig Giacona) 9. 07:01 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (LarryMcFarland) 10. 07:09 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (David Barth) 11. 07:24 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (Doug Eatman) 12. 07:36 AM - Re: lenght and pitch (James Sagerser) 13. 07:37 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Larry H) 14. 07:54 AM - Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Dan) 15. 08:09 AM - Re: The virtues of a flying slow....and landing slower.... (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 16. 08:12 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (dfmoeller) 17. 08:21 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Randall J. Hebert) 18. 08:29 AM - Re: The virtues of a flying slow....and landing slower.... (swater6) 19. 08:35 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (nyterminat@aol.com) 20. 08:35 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Larry H) 21. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: Prop Type Selection (Juan Vega) 22. 09:07 AM - 601XL O-200 engine mount (JURU8878) 23. 09:07 AM - Re: Advise (Samm) 24. 09:15 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (dfmoeller) 25. 09:17 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (Gig Giacona) 26. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Prop Type Selection (John Bolding) 27. 09:42 AM - VGs (Keystone Engineering LLC) 28. 09:45 AM - Re: Prop Type Selection (Gig Giacona) 29. 09:48 AM - Re: Advise (Gig Giacona) 30. 10:10 AM - VG's (Joe Spencer) 31. 10:30 AM - Re: VG's (kmccune) 32. 10:38 AM - Re: Taildragger or not (Bill Berle) 33. 10:47 AM - Re: VG's (Frank Roskind) 34. 10:57 AM - Re: 601XL O-200 engine mount (Bill Berle) 35. 11:35 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Bill Pagan) 36. 12:27 PM - Re: Advise () 37. 12:33 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Phil Maxson) 38. 12:35 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Larry H) 39. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Prop Type Selection (Juan Vega) 40. 01:00 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Craig Payne) 41. 01:23 PM - Re: VG's (Les Goldner) 42. 01:36 PM - Re: Taildragger or not (DaveG601XL) 43. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: Prop Type Selection (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 44. 02:18 PM - corvair cores (THOMAS SMALL) 45. 02:23 PM - Re: VG's (DaveC) 46. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: VG's (Bill Berle) 47. 03:52 PM - VG's (Joe Spencer) 48. 03:59 PM - VG's (Joe Spencer) 49. 04:15 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Bill Naumuk) 50. 04:30 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Bill Naumuk) 51. 05:36 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Randall J. Hebert) 52. 06:09 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (Larry H) 53. 06:47 PM - Re:Taildragger or not (MaxNr@aol.com) 54. 10:33 PM - Re: Holding Nose up (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:50 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VG's Joe Spencer wrote: > I am one of the renegades who removed the slats In favor of the vg's > and believe me I will never go back. The improvement in flying > qualities alone(much more stable and predictable at low > speed/safer) made the change worth it not to mention a much more > efficient airplane(pull the power back, go the same speed on less > gas) with no real world loss in STOL capability. > is minute and of no consequence and merely incidential to the real > benefit of vastly improved low speed flying qualities and increased > efficiency with no real world loss/gain of STOL capability. > I spent some 40 hours at flight test slats vs. vg's and WHEN IT WAS > ALL DOWN ON PAPER If you have real world test results, please post them (hopefully in a format that allows an easy numerical comparison). I would like to see what is the actual loss of STOL performance compared to what you get in return. Bill ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VG's From: "kmccune" Ben, Try this link, they taped up the gap. The result was that the slat appears to actuality become part of the cord. Give it a try, but be careful. Oh and like said, please post your results. http://www.stolspeed.com/id/5 -------- Kevin N701DZ Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160167#160167 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:56 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvairs From: "kmccune" Damn Larry, but you ARE, a busy guy ! 8) 65 to 69 95-110 hp. The harmonic balancer is desirable. I know it sounds kind of lame to a guy who obviously has done a lot of building and fixing. But Williams manual is worth the price, if your going this rout. He will also sell you a warp drive for your application, but only if your a customer. -------- Kevin N701DZ Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160172#160172 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:50 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Zenith-List: Taildragger or not Hi All, I don't want to start a flame war but: I am seriously thinking about building my second 601XL, I have over 100 hrs on my current one, and loving the flying, but am missing the building! I am thinking along the lines of the tail dragger version and would like to know what you guys think about the tail dragger 601XL vs the Tricycle version of the 601XL. I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST the 601XL. I have NO tail dragger experience, but that does not bother me at this stage. The Tail dragger version just LOOK better, and I assume it is simpler in construction and maintenance. I do NOT have a problem with the nose gear on mine, it works great, but I think the tail dragger looks GREAT. Awaiting your opinions. Jonathan Starke 601XL Rotax 912S 100+ hrs and counting ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Prop Type Selection From: "dfmoeller" I'm interested in getting input on which type of prop to use. Wood, woodcomp, carbon,....? What is everyone using, and why? Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160182#160182 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:10 AM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger or not Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or redheads? Kevin Rupert 601XL Taildragger Corvair ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:37 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VG's I am not a 701 person, but do have a question about removing the slats. Do you just cover the slot between the wing and slat or do you just remove the slat? Jerry of Ga. In a message dated 1/23/2008 5:52:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, n801bh@netzero.com writes: slat profile is ALOT different then the blunt nose of the wing. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection From: "Gig Giacona" What engine are you planing to use and on which plane? dfmoeller wrote: > I'm interested in getting input on which type of prop to use. Wood, woodcomp, carbon,....? > > What is everyone using, and why? > > Doug -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160193#160193 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:33 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger or not Hi Jonathan, Lots of good td aircraft out there, but you need only to look at ground handling. I prefer steering much better than differential braking. The other thing, people comment that materials on the 601 are light. The tail wheel loads carried thru the fuselage would concern me though I've never heard of one damaged by it. You'll go faster, if that counts for anything, but it seems a lot to put up with for leaving off a nose wheel. How about you doing a retractable XL? Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Jonathan Starke wrote: > > Hi All, > > I don't want to start a flame war but: > > I am seriously thinking about building my second 601XL, I have over 100 hrs on > my current one, and loving the flying, but am missing the building! > > I am thinking along the lines of the tail dragger version and would like to know > what you guys think about the tail dragger 601XL vs the Tricycle version of the > 601XL. > > I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST the 601XL. I have NO tail > dragger experience, but that does not bother me at this stage. > > The Tail dragger version just LOOK better, and I assume it is simpler in > construction and maintenance. I do NOT have a problem with the nose gear on > mine, it works great, but I think the tail dragger looks GREAT. > > Awaiting your opinions. > > Jonathan Starke > 601XL > Rotax 912S > 100+ hrs and counting > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:32 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger or not Hi Jonathon. Your lack of taildragger experience may not bother you but it probably will bother your insurance company. You should probably just check with them to find out if insurance will be the same for the taildragger as for the one you are currently flying. I suspect there may be quite a premium but all it takes is a phone call to find out. Good Luck. I believe in Canada at least, it is hardly worth getting into a taildragger unless you already have loads of taildragger experience. The Insurance is way higher. Now if Money is NOT an issue....that would make the insurance premium a moot point. David --- Jonathan Starke wrote: > I am NOT interested in ALL tail draggers, but JUST > the 601XL. I have NO tail > dragger experience, but that does not bother me at > this stage. > David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:37 AM PST US From: Doug Eatman Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Taildragger or not Jonathan, Taildraggers are loads of fun, and I agree that they look cooler on the gro und and in the air. I got my tailwheel endorsement last summer in a Decath lon and it was well worth the 600 dollar price tag. My thought is to find a taildragger and instructor, get the training, and if you enjoy the flying as much as I did, you won't have to wonder which version to build. There isn't much practical advantage to building the TD, but we build and f ly for fun. Doug Eatman 601XL TD Corvair _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.-You IM, we g ive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:26 AM PST US From: James Sagerser Subject: Re: Zenith-List: lenght and pitch I'm no expert by any means but know if I already have a basis, for example, my current prop (64/45) turns up 2700 rpm's static and I would like to have 3100, then I use this basic rule of thumb: Each increase/decrease in one inch of pitch should change the rpm's by about 100. Adding/subtracting an inch in length decreases/increases rpm by about 150 rpm. In my case, I'm going from a 64/45 to a 68/36. If I add 4" in length, rpm goes down 600-rpm to 2100-rpm but then decrease pitch by 9" adds 900 rpm so am expecting a static of around 3,000-rpm. This is just a ROUGH guess but seems close for a two bladed prop on a slow draggy aircraft like the 701, J-3 etc. On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:17 PM, LRM wrote: > I need the for calculating the length and pitch I need for a two > blade prop. Make it simple please, I only got ten toes. > > Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:58 AM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question To All, I have gotten a response from William but first I want to say a few words here. I have written William back offline and have apologized directly to him if he took offense to what I had written on this forum. I expressed to him my (our) frustrations in regards to lack of information and timeliness of his responses to our orders our emails. I told him of one other person I know that has decided to sell his Corvair conversion because he has been "waiting over a year now for his stainless steel intake manifold and distributor order from WW to come". This same person told me "he just wants to sell it now (his Corvair Conversion) and move on - he was going to buy a different powerplant and just go flying". That is his direct quote. (I had found all this out when I responded to his advertisement he posted on this forum to sell his Corvair engine.) I told William I am the middle person here - a Newbie. I have only very limited amounts of information to go on. I also told him if I can't get any information coming from him, its EXTREMELY hard to make reasonable, logical decisiona as to what to do and which way to go. Should I continue on building this conversion, ALL KNOWING now there is a potential for all my plans to be quashed for lack of a major component or two - never getting my aircraft off the ground?? Like I said before, not hearing or knowing what is going on from him seems to only compound the problem. This whole mess could have, should have been diverted just from one simple phone call or a note on email to say, "hey there, got your order - updating manual, will ship in XX days - thanks for your order"..........simple clean. Didn't happen. No phone call either. I know I'm not the only one - just the STUPID ONE that took it upon himself to quit being so damned frustrated about it and decided to ASK WILLIAM MYSELF.......so I did. *********************************************************************** Here is Williams words back to me - in its entirety and unedited Larry, Am I correct that the following paragraph was written to the list by you? "As for me, I am thinking that the Wynnes have run out of working capital and aren't able to support the inventory required to fullfill all our orders for parts. I DID read over on the other sight that one gentleman has had his stainless steel intake on order since 2006. 2006???? " If this was actually written to the list by yourself, Let me offer that my records indicate that you have two manuals on order with us, The installation manual is in stock, and we are doing a few minor updates to the conversion manual and expect to print and ship them shortly. We tend to ship both of the manuals together when they are ordered as a pair. Our friend Pat only shared the note with you to explain that we are expanding the inventory. To take this and publicly imply that we are somehow out of funds is inaccurate and the kind of thing I least like about the Internet. We have a handful of orders which are in excess of a year old. In each of these cases the builder has told us that they would gladly wait for any new and improved model. Notice that you have never heard of a single person saying they would like their money back and cant get it. Infrequently, some builders plans change, and we offer full refunds, no questions. There are plenty of rip off companies in aviation. We are not one of them. I have a loyal fan base because I am a real homebuilder, and I have earned the respect of builders. I spend very little time on the computer. and treat E-mail like mail, not instant messages. All the rip off companies that took money and disappeared all had great websites and instant email responses, but no pictures of flying planes and no friends willing to vouch for them. If you can look at the 10 years of working with homebuilders on my website and feel that there is a place for you among the world of Corvair builders, good we will have your manuals on the way in a few days. If not, I will be glad to refund your money and you can restart your search for a powerplant for your plane, You can certainly find companies with better email responses, but you will not find anyone who cares more about builders. Please feel free to share this in full with the same lists the comments we posted on. William Wynne 5000-18 US HWY 17 #247 ORANGE PARK, FL 32003 www.FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html **************************************************************************** Well, there you have it. I got an answer from William. I'm not sure how much has been cleared up for some of you. I can only hope some good came of all this. I also have to add in here, I did tell William if I overstepped my bounds and have offended him, I wanted to apologize to him (both personally and publicly) and that I honestly didn't mean any harm. This of course, is all water under the bridge now and only he can answer that one. If William does happen to read this posting, he DOES have my full permission to re-post my personal response to him on this forum in its entirety. Regards to all, Happy building and flying, Larry H --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:59 AM PST US From: "Dan" Subject: RE: ***SPAM*** Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question I would suspect that they are still catching up from the holidays which they took time off for. I ordered a couple of dvd's before the holidays and received them promptly. I saw in another posting that someone said that they had sold there 601 and was speculating that they had done this because they were out of working capital which seems to me is somewhat out of line because WW stated some time ago that they were probably going to sell it, and to say that they are out of money is conjecture and merely starts a debate which has been beaten to death here before. I have always been happy with the delivery time of the informational materials which I have ordered from him. There have always been delay issues with at least some of the products which he has developed and offered for sale, this is not a new issue and is common knowledge on this list. We just each have to decide if this is something we want to deal with in our build. I am still looking for a core engine, and when I find one I will build it to install in my project because William has provided the information needed to build the engine. The engine can be built safely and reliably using his development information without using any of his parts, so while quicker and easier to bolt on his parts, I don't understand the mentality of "I can't finish my project because I don't have a pre-bent intake manifold" or whatever the part may be. Dan _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:05 PM Subject: ***SPAM*** Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Randall- Join the club. Great engine, but all you can do is wait on WW. If you're in a hurry go with an O-235. I often wonder if that's the way I should have gone. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall J. Hebert Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill I ordered the conversion Manual on 1-09-08 but sent the signed waiver a couple of days later, but still haven't gotten the manual. Randall J Hebert Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers Lafayette, Louisiana PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977 _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill- 904-529-0006 or 386-451-3676. Hope you don't wear out your redial button. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Pagan Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Hello All, Been lurking on the list for some time. Building 601QBK I took delivery of about 3 weeks ago. I ordered the Corvair Conversion Manual and 601 installation manual from William Wynn (paid through paypal) about 3 weeks ago and haven't received it yet. Got no response to 2 emails and can't find a phone number on his website. Doesn't seem like a great way to do business. Has anybody else had any issues with this? Can anybody give me a phone number for him? Thanks Bill Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:50 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The virtues of a flying slow....and landing slower.... Scott, what engine do you have and what was the problem that forced you to land? Jerry of Ga In a message dated 1/23/2008 6:20:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, waters.scott@comcast.net writes: http://www.ascensioncitizen.com/articles/2008/01/23/news/news04.txt **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:15 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection From: "dfmoeller" 601XL with a Rotax 912ULS. I'm more interested in the generic pros/cons of construction type at this point than I am pitch/dia/blades. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160214#160214 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question From: "Randall J. Hebert" Thanks for the effort Larry I am not like most here I am simply trying to decide on an engine and am some time away from actually making a decision. I really never worried about WWs response just added my name in because I am waiting on the order. I did get more info from his website regarding the 701 Corvair tho and will read it with interest. Randall J Hebert ________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry H Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question To All, I have gotten a response from William but first I want to say a few words here. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:02 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: The virtues of a flying slow....and landing slower.... From: "swater6" This wasn't me, I just posted the link article I found. I don't know anything about the pilot or builder. Just sharing with the group. Scott -------- 601 XL kit Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage www.scottwaters.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160225#160225 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger or not From: nyterminat@aol.com Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?? :) :) :) do not archive ? Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or redheads?? ? Kevin Rupert? ? 601XL Taildragger? ? Corvair? ? ================================================? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:28 AM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question William did respond with another email to me, asking me the person's name that had made these statements to me. I gave William the name. William told me he would personally look into it and resolve this immediately. He said there should be no reason WHY this person would be saying this - if he owes him parts, he will do his best to clear this up. William did also say that they have updated their webpage. As for those of us waiting on conversion manuals, William told me they are making a updates to them and would ship them out as soon as they are done. If you also ordered the CH601 installation manual along with the conversion manual, they usually ship them together, so hold tight and wait a bit longer please....they ARE coming soon! Larry --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:00 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite condom. Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: dfmoeller >Sent: Jan 24, 2008 11:08 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection > > >601XL with a Rotax 912ULS. > >I'm more interested in the generic pros/cons of construction type at this point than I am pitch/dia/blades. > >Doug > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160214#160214 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL O-200 engine mount From: "JURU8878" I have an O-200 engine mount that I do not need as we are going with the Corvair engine. This is for the 601XL. I did not build this mount, rather purchased it from someone else. If interested email me off list and I will attempt to get pictures and/or dimensions for you. Please make me an offer. v/r, Jud 601XL judson.rupert@navy.mil jlr262@yaoo.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160236#160236 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:33 AM PST US From: "Samm" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Advise Date of which issuance? My Student Certificate issued in 1965, my Private first issued in 1966, my first Commercial, instrument rating, and multiengine all first issued in 1967, my Flight Instructor first issued in 1967, my Ground instructor issued in 1968, or my Airline Transport issued in 1988 or my last CFI renewal in 2006. The above says I'm competent at manipulating the flight controls and thinking at the same time. It does not imply that I know much about the best procedures in construction of airframes or engines or a multitude of other things related to finding parts, tools, etc., or anything other than manipulating the flight controls and thinking at the same time. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and is entitled to use it. You don't, however, have to pay attention to either if you so chose. I'd recommend that anyone take all postings with a grain of salt and do their own bit research. The building of your aircraft is supposed to be educational ! Postings should be a start-point, NOT and end-point. Samuel P. Munn (Look me up, please) ----- Original Message ----- From: Trainnut01@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Advise Paul You touched on what has become a pet peeve for me. I've had my certificate for forty years but my plastic certificate says 2003. Maybe its just my ego but I think the date of original issue should be shown. Carroll Jernigan ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection From: "dfmoeller" It was a simple question. What are the relative merits of the different prop types - in general terms? Why would someone choose a wood GSC over a Warp Drive? For instance, the wood shatters on impact sometimes saving an overhaul in case of a prop strike, but it can absorb moisture in rain. That sort of thing. I specifically pointed out that I wasn't asking for specifics. Thanks for the smart-ass answer. Very helpful! Doug amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite condom. > Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane. > > Juan > > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160239#160239 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection From: "Gig Giacona" Exactly. I'm going with a wooden 64x43 Sensenich on my Corvair because that has shown to produce better speed than a Warp Drive. And it is a damn sight better looking. If my plane wasn't going to live in a hanger I'd use a Warp Drive. Keep in mind though that on a Corvair prop rpm is around 3500. Slower spinning Rotax are going to need something else. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160240#160240 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:59 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection In 62 yrs I have not had that question posed to me yet, but who knows, day is still young. LO&SLO John > > asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite > condom. > Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane. > > Juan > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:15 AM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: VGs I feel a need to weigh in to this discussion. I have flown my 801: a.. With slats b.. With slats with VGs c.. Without slats d.. and without slats with VGs The VGs do not add anything when the slats are attached. No improvement on the high end or at slow speeds. The plane without slats and without VGs is a faster plane. I don't have my log book here but it like 8-10 mph faster in cruise but is much faster on the bottom end. The plane stalls in a predictable manner. It is just much much faster. The plane without slats but with VGs is as fast as with no slats. It is like 8 or 10 mph faster. The stall is 15 mph or so faster. I don't know why it works better on the 701 than the 801. With VGs I was over the fence at 65 and with slats I was over the fence as low as 50. I did not find the center of lift changing when the slats were removed. I heard (from this chat room it think) that if you cover the slats, the plane's center of lift moves forward so much you need to recalculate CG to remain in the proper % of MAC. I do not think the slats they provide much lift. I think they accelerate the air over the wing. There is a hole in the wing at about 10% of MAC. I have long been an advocate for VGs on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer. I fly into soft beaches. I have always wanted more elevator control. VGs on the bottom of the elevator give you more elevator control. The VGs on the bottom of the HS add more to the elevator authority than the larger tail. JG (the guy from down under) gave me a set of VGs to experiment with. I thank him. The first VGs I made were from standard L. 1 1/2" long with the front cut off at a 45 degree angle. I progressed to 1/2"x1/2"x1/16" AL angle, 1" long with the front cut at a 45 degree angle. I read a study that said the shape doesn't matter. I have not found a difference in VGs between the standard L, 1/2 angle or feathers. I would say the feather look nicer than the AL VGs. One nice thing about having the EXPERIMENTAL on the side of the plane is you can go into phase 1 testing again. Every time I make a major change to the plane I approach the flight as if it was the first flight . Some changes work some do not. I still have plans to modify the wing tip to increase lift. So many projects too little time. Bill Wilcox N801BW 350 hrs Valdez, Alaska In storage for winter performing 4th condition inspection. Anticipating installing floats this spring. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection From: "Gig Giacona" Here's a link on the relative merits of wood. http://www.pipercubforum.com/woodprop.htm -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160248#160248 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Advise From: "Gig Giacona" None of those. The listed date if issuance is the last time they produced a new piece of paper or now plastic. And you are quite right. Any answer you get here should be a starting place. [quote="heliav8r(at)swbell.net"]Date of which issuance? My Student Certificate issued in 1965, my Private first issued in 1966, my first Commercial, instrument rating, and multiengine all first issued in 1967, my Flight Instructor first issued in 1967, my Ground instructor issued in 1968, or my Airline Transport issued in 1988 or my last CFI renewal in 2006. The above says I'm competent at manipulating the flight controls and thinking at the same time. It does not imply that I know much about the best procedures in construction of airframes or engines or a multitude of other things related to finding parts, tools, etc., or anything other than manipulating the flight controls and thinking at the same time. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and is entitled to use it. You don't, however, have to pay attention to either if you so chose. I'd recommend that anyone take all postings with a grain of salt and do their own bit research. The building of your aircraft is supposed to be educational ! Postings should be a start-point, NOT and end-point. Samuel P. Munn (Look me up, please) > --- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160250#160250 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:20 AM PST US From: "Joe Spencer" Subject: Zenith-List: VG's Bill (and all), Per your request I went back and dug thru my notes and came up with some figures for you. While I didn't bother to tabulate the whole mess hopefully this will suffice for your purposes... CH 701, 912 ULS, 3 Blade Warp Drive set at 11 degrees. EW with slats 592, EW without slats 579, don't have the EWCG in front of me but believe it was 12%MAC or close to that. All flights were made with the same load, about 7 gallons gas, pilot, and a Wire Hair Terrier in the baggage shelf. Tried to fly as close to 60 F as possible(some variation here but minimal), and always at 1000 MSL in mostly smooth air. All speeds were taken from a gps and 4 leg box pattern average and carefully flown. I flew first with slats installed, then with no slats or vg's and finally with the vg's in 3 different positions(ended up with the vg's at 8% MAC-permanent position). My plane at that time had round(not streamlined) lift struts installed. I found that vg placement was important to predictable takeoff performance. Cruise speed at 5000rpm, slats installed, 84.0 mph Cruise speed at 5000rpm, no slats or vg's, 90.25 mph Cruise speed at 5000 rpm, vg's at 8% MAC, 90.25 mph Note: I flew with the clean wing for that speed, installed the vg's(2 hours) and went right back out and flew under near identical conditions and came up with an identical speed for slats vs. clean. Real world I have found the cruise speed to be more like 88-89 mph for varying load conditions, temps etc.; still an increase of 4 to 5 mph over slats. For takeoff and landing measurements: I have a 250 foot strip with markers along the sides for judging distances used. While not the best system it does work for my purposes and for real world evaluation, I think. At any rate here in Mississippi we have to get by with what we've got so there you have it. All measurements were done no wind and same load including the terrier. All takeoffs and landings were what I call max effort. Takeoff distance with slats 60 feet average(see the green one on utube) Takeoff distance without slats or vg's not measured Takeoff distance with vg's at 8%MAC 60 feet average Note: If it will make the naysayers happy I will apply a penalty of 10% to the takeoff distance just to allow for whatever tolerances...even tho I didn't come up with that in my measurements. That's a whole 6 feet. Like I said somewhere before-who cares? Landing distance with slats 180 feet Landing distance without slats or vg's not measured Landing distance with vg's 150 feet Note: I never was able to match ZAC figures for landing(140 feet I think it was) even tho I often lock the brakes for rollout(skidout). The big difference for me with the vg's is that the thing is so much more controllable at low speed allowing for a helluva lot more precise approach/touchdown.I found the 701 with slats to be fairly demanding when really slowed up(Roger at ZAC says fly 50 mph-kind of like a Cessna150 I thought) and things can unravel fast close in.The vg's cured a lot of that for me. Yes there is some flattening of the power off glide angle but once again the slip is available for obstacles so I call that a nonissue. The big deal with the vg's is improved lowspeed handling, reduced buffet, and better fuel economy or higher cruise take your pick.I would rather that nobody put vg's on because of anything I say...I did it for me only and with no intention of ever getting involved in all this BS discussion...but the 701 is a different animal from what most of us have ever fooled with-the numbers are all so small that a huge percentage increase/decrease amounts to nothing in the real world and well the thing has such odd flight characteristics that unless one has first hand experience with it then chances are he just really doesn't know what he's talking about...transfer of knowledge/experience from other seemingly related areas isn't necessarily as valid as one might think cause it's so different, blah, blah, blah. At any rate, don't take my word for it do your own testing and whatnot and make up your own mind. But don't knock it til you've tried it. Best to all, Joe BTW: The streamline lift struts make an even more dramatic performance change than the vg's. Cruise speed goes up even more, climb rate goes up, buffet decreases, and the glide angle is flattened out even more(slip it man) and curiously nobody ever downs those. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VG's From: "kmccune" Joe, Thank you for taking the time. Kevin -------- Kevin N701DZ Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160260#160260 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:11 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger or not nyterminat@aol.com wrote: > Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) do not archive Redheads ! Redheads! Redheads! Beat me! Tie me! Whip me!!! Tailwheels will usually save some amount of weight and reduce some amount of drag, as well as make the plane more attractive. That is a pretty significant set of benefits. On balance you will have to learn a new skill (always a good idea), you will always have to be more alert on landing (another really good idea) and your insurance will be affected because of the people who were NOT skilled or alert in the past. IMHO, the insurance is something that will be a thorn in your side once a year. The benefits if lighter weight, less drag, and a cooler looking airplane are enjoyed on every single flight. Chris Heintz is a brilliant designer, and he is obviously the poster boy for "form follows function". He admits his designs are not optimized for appearance, any more than the claw hammer or the ironsmith's anvil are optimized for appearance. So if there is something simple you can do to make the airplane more pretty, that does not negatively affect the safety or usability of the design, it might be a nice bargain that only requires you become a little better airplane driver... which you will soon see is an even bigger reward. My opinion only, I've owned nosewheels and tailwheels and enjoyed them both. Bill nyterminat@aol.com wrote: > Kevin.......Blondes for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) do not archive > > > > > Whew!!!! That's like asking which do you like better, blondes or > redheads? > Kevin Rupert > 601XL Taildragger > Corvair > > > ================================================ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ! > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:42 AM PST US From: Frank Roskind Subject: RE: Zenith-List: VG's this seems interesting. Has anyone flown the 600 series with VG's? Maybe you could get really good cruise and good short field performance. Also, h ow do slats or VG's affect soft field performance? From: jpspencer@cableone.netTo: Zenith-List@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-Li st: VG'sDate: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:07:29 -0600 Bill (and all), Per your request I went back and dug thru my notes and came up with some fi gures for you. While I didn't bother to tabulate the whole mess hopefully t his will suffice for your purposes... CH 701, 912 ULS, 3 Blade Warp Drive set at 11 degrees. EW with slats 592, E W without slats 579, don't have the EWCG in front of me but believe it was 12%MAC or close to that. All flights were made with the same load, about 7 gallons gas, pilot, and a Wire Hair Terrier in the baggage shelf. Tried to fly as close to 60 F as possible(some variation here but minimal), and alwa ys at 1000 MSL in mostly smooth air. All speeds were taken from a gps and 4 leg box pattern average and carefully flown. I flew first with slats insta lled, then with no slats or vg's and finally with the vg's in 3 different p ositions(ended up with the vg's at 8% MAC-permanent position). My plane at that time had round(not streamlined) lift struts installed. I found that vg placement was important to predictable takeoff performance. Cruise speed at 5000rpm, slats installed, 84.0 mph Cruise speed at 5000rpm, no slats or vg's, 90.25 mph Cruise speed at 5000 rpm, vg's at 8% MAC, 90.25 mph Note: I flew with the c lean wing for that speed, installed the vg's(2 hours) and went right back o ut and flew under near identical conditions and came up with an identical s peed for slats vs. clean. Real world I have found the cruise speed to be mo re like 88-89 mph for varying load conditions, temps etc.; still an increas e of 4 to 5 mph over slats. For takeoff and landing measurements: I have a 250 foot strip with markers along the sides for judging distances used. While not the best system it do es work for my purposes and for real world evaluation, I think. At any rate here in Mississippi we have to get by with what we've got so there you hav e it. All measurements were done no wind and same load including the terrie r. All takeoffs and landings were what I call max effort. Takeoff distance with slats 60 feet average(see the green one on utube) Takeoff distance without slats or vg's not measured Takeoff distance with vg's at 8%MAC 60 feet average Note: If it will make the naysayers happy I will apply a penalty of 10% to the takeoff distance j ust to allow for whatever tolerances...even tho I didn't come up with that in my measurements. That's a whole 6 feet. Like I said somewhere before-who cares? Landing distance with slats 180 feet Landing distance without slats or vg's not measured Landing distance with vg's 150 feet Note: I never was able to match ZAC fig ures for landing(140 feet I think it was) even tho I often lock the brakes for rollout(skidout). The big difference for me with the vg's is that the t hing is so much more controllable at low speed allowing for a helluva lot m ore precise approach/touchdown.I found the 701 with slats to be fairly dema nding when really slowed up(Roger at ZAC says fly 50 mph-kind of like a Ces sna150 I thought) and things can unravel fast close in.The vg's cured a lot of that for me. Yes there is some flattening of the power off glide angle but once again the slip is available for obstacles so I call that a nonissu e. The big deal with the vg's is improved lowspeed handling, reduced buffet, a nd better fuel economy or higher cruise take your pick.I would rather that nobody put vg's on because of anything I say...I did it for me only and wit h no intention of ever getting involved in all this BS discussion...but the 701 is a different animal from what most of us have ever fooled with-the n umbers are all so small that a huge percentage increase/decrease amounts to nothing in the real world and well the thing has such odd flight character istics that unless one has first hand experience with it then chances are h e just really doesn't know what he's talking about...transfer of knowledge/ experience from other seemingly related areas isn't necessarily as valid a s one might think cause it's so different, blah, blah, blah. At any rate, d on't take my word for it do your own testing and whatnot and make up your o wn mind. But don't knock it til you've tried it. Best to all, Joe BTW: The streamline lift struts make an even more dramatic performance chan ge than the vg's. Cruise speed goes up even more, climb rate goes up, buffe t decreases, and the glide angle is flattened out even more(slip it man) an d curiously nobody ever downs those. _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo ur "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:49 AM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL O-200 engine mount Can a nyone tell me if this will also fit a 701? If so I might be interested. JURU8878 wrote: > > I have an O-200 engine mount that I do not need as we are going with the Corvair engine. This is for the 601XL. I did not build this mount, rather purchased it from someone else. If interested email me off list and I will attempt to get pictures and/or dimensions for you. Please make me an offer. > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:57 AM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Thanks for your efforts Larry! I think it probably makes all of us a little more comfortable. I don't doubt William's sincerity and am certain of his efforts and very comfortable with his engineering of the Corvair powerplant. I based my whole choice on going with the XL on using the corvair engine and it is certainly easy to get into the panic mode when you start hearing of problems. i am really anxious to get a core (although they seem tough to find here in Florida as some guy in Orange Park already got em all :-) ) and get started on the engine package. I know these things don't happen overnight and am very pleased to hear of Williams attention to this matter. Larry H wrote: To All, I have gotten a response from William but first I want to say a few words here. I have written William back offline and have apologized directly to him if he took offense to what I had written on this forum. I expressed to him my (our) frustrations in regards to lack of information and timeliness of his responses to our orders our emails. I told him of one other person I know that has decided to sell his Corvair conversion because he has been "waiting over a year now for his stainless steel intake manifold and distributor order from WW to come". This same person told me "he just wants to sell it now (his Corvair Conversion) and move on - he was going to buy a different powerplant and just go flying". That is his direct quote. (I had found all this out when I responded to his advertisement he posted on this forum to sell his Corvair engine.) I told William I am the middle person here - a Newbie. I have only very limited amounts of information to go on. I also told him if I can't get any information coming from him, its EXTREMELY hard to make reasonable, logical decisiona as to what to do and which way to go. Should I continue on building this conversion, ALL KNOWING now there is a potential for all my plans to be quashed for lack of a major component or two - never getting my aircraft off the ground?? Like I said before, not hearing or knowing what is going on from him seems to only compound the problem. This whole mess could have, should have been diverted just from one simple phone call or a note on email to say, "hey there, got your order - updating manual, will ship in XX days - thanks for your order"..........simple clean. Didn't happen. No phone call either. I know I'm not the only one - just the STUPID ONE that took it upon himself to quit being so damned frustrated about it and decided to ASK WILLIAM MYSELF.......so I did. *********************************************************************** Here is Williams words back to me - in its entirety and unedited Larry, Am I correct that the following paragraph was written to the list by you? "As for me, I am thinking that the Wynnes have run out of working capital and aren't able to support the inventory required to fullfill all our orders for parts. I DID read over on the other sight that one gentleman has had his stainless steel intake on order since 2006. 2006???? " If this was actually written to the list by yourself, Let me offer that my records indicate that you have two manuals on order with us, The installation manual is in stock, and we are doing a few minor updates to the conversion manual and expect to print and ship them shortly. We tend to ship both of the manuals together when they are ordered as a pair. Our friend Pat only shared the note with you to explain that we are expanding the inventory. To take this and publicly imply that we are somehow out of funds is inaccurate and the kind of thing I least like about the Internet. We have a handful of orders which are in excess of a year old. In each of these cases the builder has told us that they would gladly wait for any new and improved model. Notice that you have never heard of a single person saying they would like their money back and cant get it. Infrequently, some builders plans change, and we offer full refunds, no questions. There are plenty of rip off companies in aviation. We are not one of them. I have a loyal fan base because I am a real homebuilder, and I have earned the respect of builders. I spend very little time on the computer. and treat E-mail like mail, not instant messages. All the rip off companies that took money and disappeared all had great websites and instant email responses, but no pictures of flying planes and no friends willing to vouch for them. If you can look at the 10 years of working with homebuilders on my website and feel that there is a place for you among the world of Corvair builders, good we will have your manuals on the way in a few days. If not, I will be glad to refund your money and you can restart your search for a powerplant for your plane, You can certainly find companies with better email responses, but you will not find anyone who cares more about builders. Please feel free to share this in full with the same lists the comments we posted on. William Wynne 5000-18 US HWY 17 #247 ORANGE PARK, FL 32003 www.FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html **************************************************************************** Well, there you have it. I got an answer from William. I'm not sure how much has been cleared up for some of you. I can only hope some good came of all this. I also have to add in here, I did tell William if I overstepped my bounds and have offended him, I wanted to apologize to him (both personally and publicly) and that I honestly didn't mean any harm. This of course, is all water under the bridge now and only he can answer that one. If William does happen to read this posting, he DOES have my full permission to re-post my personal response to him on this forum in its entirety. Regards to all, Happy building and flying, Larry H Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:41 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Advise Amen. It wouldn't cost the FAA anything to merely list dates and ratings as earned, such as: Student license - 1958 Private ASEL- 1959 ASES 1963 Commercial 1969 MSEL 1972 ATR 1980 , and so on. Paul Rodriguez DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Trainnut01@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Advise Paul You touched on what has become a pet peeve for me. I've had my certificate for forty years but my plastic certificate says 2003. Maybe its just my ego but I think the date of original issue should be shown. Carroll Jernigan do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:56 PM PST US From: Phil Maxson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Larry, I thought you were leaving the list? That was many emails ago. I love my Corvair. Coolest part of the plane.Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey From: LHusky@aol.comDate: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:14:20 -0500Subject: Re: Zenit h-List: Intro and William Wynn QuestionTo: zenith-list@matronics.com I have given up on the Corvair and I am going with another engine. I have emailed 17 times with no response to any of them. I attended his class in Cloverdale, California Oct. 2006, which we had to pay to attend. His respo nse then was to respond to emails faster. Well, at least I got a free hat out of it. Dealing with Tom Henderson is about the same. At least I am lo cal and can take him to court! Larry Husky ?????????? In a message dated 1/23/2008 5:08:31 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, naumuk@all tel.net writes: Randall- Join the club. Great engine, but all you can do is wait on WW. If you'r e in a hurry go with an O-235. I often wonder if that's the way I should ha ve gone. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall J. Hebert Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill I ordered the conversion Manual on 1-09-08 but sent the signed waiver a cou ple of days later, but still haven't gotten the manual. Randall J Hebert Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers Lafayette, Louisiana PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977 From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill NaumukSent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:37 PMTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and Wi lliam Wynn Question Bill- 904-529-0006 or 386-451-3676. Hope you don't wear out your redial butto n. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Pagan Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Hello All,Been lurking on the list for some time. Building 601QBK I took d elivery of about 3 weeks ago.I ordered the Corvair Conversion Manual and 60 1 installation manual from William Wynn (paid through paypal) about 3 weeks ago and haven't received it yet. Got no response to 2 emails and can't f ind a phone number on his website. Doesn't seem like a great way to do bus iness. Has anybody else had any issues with this? Can anybody give me a ph one number for him?ThanksBillBill PaganEAA Tech Counselor #4395 Be a better friend, newshound, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Zenith-List .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120 08 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:11 PM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question One thing that was suggested to me is to try to locate one of your local car clubs. The person that made this suggestion to me also suggested seeing if there is a Corvair Club specifically around in your area. He told me the cores we are looking for are NOT the cores the clubs are wanting and we should be able to find them for little or nothing....the clubs are wanting the turbo charged or higher performance blocks...one gentleman I chatted with told me he found 2 good cores for $150 for both. I would give $150 each! LOL. Hope these suggestions help everyone out. Larry H --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:15 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection anytime! my pleasure. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: dfmoeller >Sent: Jan 24, 2008 12:12 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection > > >It was a simple question. What are the relative merits of the different prop types - in general terms? Why would someone choose a wood GSC over a Warp Drive? For instance, the wood shatters on impact sometimes saving an overhaul in case of a prop strike, but it can absorb moisture in rain. That sort of thing. > >I specifically pointed out that I wasn't asking for specifics. > >Thanks for the smart-ass answer. Very helpful! > >Doug > > >amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: >> asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite condom. >> Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane. >> >> Juan >> >> -- > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160239#160239 > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:02 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question This is a link to the national Corvair Society of America: www.corvair.org A list of all 123 local chapters is here: www.corvair.org/csachap.php -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry H Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question One thing that was suggested to me is to try to locate one of your local car clubs. The person that made this suggestion to me also suggested seeing if there is a Corvair Club specifically around in your area. He told me the cores we are looking for are NOT the cores the clubs are wanting and we should be able to find them for little or nothing....the clubs are wanting the turbo charged or higher performance blocks...one gentleman I chatted with told me he found 2 good cores for $150 for both. I would give $150 each! LOL. Hope these suggestions help everyone out. Larry H ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:21 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: VG's Joe, Do you know how much further back, if any, that you changed the center of lift on your wing by removing the slats and how this impacts the allowed CG for your 701? Les > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Bill Berle > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:02 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VG's > > --> > > Joe Spencer wrote: > > I am one of the renegades who removed the slats In favor > of the vg's > > and believe me I will never go back. The improvement in flying > > qualities alone(much more stable and predictable at low > > speed/safer) made the change worth it not to mention a much more > > efficient airplane(pull the power back, go the same speed on less > > gas) with no real world loss in STOL capability. > > is minute and of no consequence and merely incidential to the real > > benefit of vastly improved low speed flying qualities and increased > > efficiency with no real world loss/gain of STOL capability. > > I spent some 40 hours at flight test slats vs. vg's and WHEN IT WAS > > ALL DOWN ON PAPER > > If you have real world test results, please post them > (hopefully in a format that allows an easy numerical > comparison). I would like to see what is the actual loss of > STOL performance compared to what you get in return. > > Bill > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Taildragger or not From: "DaveG601XL" Jonathan, You are kind of where I was when I first started thinking about building my 601 (except for the fact that you actually HAVE one!) I was considering a taildragger even though I had minimal TD experience. I asked a few insurance reps at Oshkosh and they did their best to hold back on the laughter. Since we essentially live in a era of regulation by insurance, I gave up the TD idea as a matter of pure folly on my part. In the meantime, I got my TD endorsement last fall and had a blast doing so. Somewhere in the back of my mind I wish I was building a TD, but not enough to convert what I already have into one. Hey that's an idea.......when I get post-builders stress disorder, I can convert it to a TD! What a concept! I say you go for it! Either way, get your TD endorsement, especially in an old rag wing that makes you learn the finer points of rudder pedals. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160301#160301 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:06 PM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Prop Type Selection I am 73 years old, What the heck are they talking about? :-) In a message dated 1/24/2008 12:21:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jnbolding1@teleshare.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" In 62 yrs I have not had that question posed to me yet, but who knows, day is still young. LO&SLO John > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega > > asking what type of prop to use is like asking a man whats his favorite > condom. > Depends on the girl. Depends on the plane. > > Juan **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:28 PM PST US From: "THOMAS SMALL" Subject: Zenith-List: corvair cores If you're a corvair zealot you may know of this place. Not far from where I reside it was full of engines the last time I looked. I was introduced to someone from the "Ranch" at a flyin over the summer by Ray Blondin who founded Venturay, but didn't remember the name for more than the duration of the conversation. Ray said his supply of engines began and ended at the Ranch. They know the years you might be in search of. Ray was killed in the crash of his Corvair powered HDS back in November. I have no details, you can check the prelim report on the ntsb. http://www.corvairranch.com/index.htm do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VG's From: "DaveC" jpspencer(at)cableone.net wrote: > Bill (and all), > Per your request I went back and dug thru my notes and came up with some figures for you. While I didn't bother to tabulate the whole mess hopefully this will suffice for your purposes... > Thank you thank you thank you Not just for the results of the VG trials, or for the bit about strut cleanup but for the reference to the 250' foot strip you use. I have been wondering how much land I need to set aside and improve for use as my airstrip and now I know some real world numbers. I now know that 240x40 (plus climb room on either end) should be realistic. -------- Dave Alvin, Texas CH-701 wanna-be-soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160310#160310 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:39 PM PST US From: Bill Berle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: VG's Hey wait a minute... I didn't receive the message that starts with this paragraph below... does it contain the numbers or test results? I got several other messages but I didn't get the originalversion of this: > jpspencer(at)cableone.net wrote: > >> Bill (and all), >> Per your request I went back and dug thru my notes and came up with some figures for you. While I didn't bother to tabulate the whole mess hopefully this will suffice for your purposes... >> >> ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:15 PM PST US From: "Joe Spencer" Subject: Zenith-List: VG's Thank you thank you thank you Not just for the results of the VG trials, or for the bit about strut cleanup but for the reference to the 250' foot strip you use. I have been wondering how much land I need to set aside and improve for use as my airstrip and now I know some real world numbers. I now know that 240x40 (plus climb room on either end) should be realistic. Dave I wouldn't consider 250' to be an adequate everyday strip. I use it for testing, grins and such and it does have clearways on either end so if over/under shot there is no damage. I would think at least 500' minimum with clear approaches would be a comfortable, everyday use minimum, and only then if the pilot is proficient. If I could get more I would. Joe ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:27 PM PST US From: "Joe Spencer" Subject: Zenith-List: VG's Do you know how much further back, if any, that you changed the center of lift on your wing by removing the slats and how this impacts the allowed CG for your 701? Les Les I don't know about the center of lift. The EWCG moved from 12% to 14% MAC if I remember correctly but do not have the wt/bal with me to verify. The cg will move aft tho that's for sure as the slats weighed 13#. I can't tell any difference in the way it flies, in that respect. Joe ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:47 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Randall- Can't give you advice on the 701, but from what I've heard, it is a little too much. Address your questions to the 701 people for best results. Good building! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall J. Hebert To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill I am currently studying (reading up on) the VW and the Corvair. I understand the Corvair may be a little much for the 701 ??? My biggest decision maker now is $$$ Randall J Hebert Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers Lafayette, Louisiana PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:05 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Randall- Join the club. Great engine, but all you can do is wait on WW. If you're in a hurry go with an O-235. I often wonder if that's the way I should have gone. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall J. Hebert To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill I ordered the conversion Manual on 1-09-08 but sent the signed waiver a couple of days later, but still haven't gotten the manual. Randall J Hebert Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers Lafayette, Louisiana PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:37 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill- 904-529-0006 or 386-451-3676. Hope you don't wear out your redial button. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Pagan To: Zenith List Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Hello All, Been lurking on the list for some time. Building 601QBK I took delivery of about 3 weeks ago. I ordered the Corvair Conversion Manual and 601 installation manual from William Wynn (paid through paypal) about 3 weeks ago and haven't received it yet. Got no response to 2 emails and can't find a phone number on his website. Doesn't seem like a great way to do business. Has anybody else had any issues with this? Can anybody give me a phone number for him? Thanks Bill Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Be a better friend, newshound, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:31 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Larry- Once again, I think everyone's in the same boat, and for the same parts. Hang in there. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry H To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Hi Bill, I too ordered a rebuild manual and installation manual for the 601. I ordered mine of Jan 6th and I mailed the release out to him that same day. I too wrote them one email and as of yet, no manuals or any response. Grace did write this before they left and this IS on their website: "Due to a late start, we will be extending our break from answering the phone or e-mail through Jan. 8, 2008. In the meantime, in the spirit of my New Year's Resolution to celebrate Christmas every day, I will soon be sending out all Baffle Kits and every Cowling Kit we have. I waited until after the Holiday Mailing Season to post these because they are precision bent expensive parts that certainly didn't need to be unbent in the Christmas Crush. We shipped out a few more engines before Christmas, and a few more will also be going out shortly for arrival in plenty of time for Spring Break (again, apologies for the delays). I mailed several Distributors Dec. 31, 2007, including one to our Spanish Piet builder Jorge, plus 601 Intakes and Exhausts. All DVDs will go out next week as well. The majority of other items please consider Class "B" till the eighth." Now I did also notice that they were planning to go to Sebring for the LSA Expo during Jan, 17th to 20th 2008. It DOES take time to finish their business there, pack up and drive back home. I'm not making any excuses for them, but I DO know how it is when you are traveling...and trying to conduct business along the way (to anyone that will listen to you about your product) Here is the clincher for me. I saw where a gentleman on here was advertising his NEW Corvair engine and trying to sell it (has ZERO runtime hours). He said the only two things he was missing was the dual distributor and the intake manifold. He told me he has had both of these items on order now for a full YEAR and is tired of waiting on them - he wants to go flying he said. I can totally understand that. I TOO am starting to wonder if I SHOULD or SHOULDN'T take the time to do this Corvair conversion, ESPECIALLY if I can't get any support for it. You are absolutely right, this is NOT a way to do business. I am giving the Wynnes a chance to get back home, get settled and take care of some of their open ends they had before they left. I will try sending them another email and give them a call in a week or so. If anyone DOES get a response out of them, would you please keep us all informed so we know they are available again? Thanks Larry H ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:43 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question From: "Randall J. Hebert" Thanks Bill, you too Randall J Hebert ________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Randall- Can't give you advice on the 701, but from what I've heard, it is a little too much. Address your questions to the 701 people for best results. Good building! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall J. Hebert To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:13 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill I am currently studying (reading up on) the VW and the Corvair. I understand the Corvair may be a little much for the 701 ??? My biggest decision maker now is $$$ Randall J Hebert Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers Lafayette, Louisiana PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977 ________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:05 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Randall- Join the club. Great engine, but all you can do is wait on WW. If you're in a hurry go with an O-235. I often wonder if that's the way I should have gone. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall J. Hebert To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill I ordered the conversion Manual on 1-09-08 but sent the signed waiver a couple of days later, but still haven't gotten the manual. Randall J Hebert Randall J Hebert & Associates, Inc Consulting Civil / Structural Engineers Lafayette, Louisiana PH 337-261-1976 - FX 337-261-1977 ________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:37 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Bill- 904-529-0006 or 386-451-3676. Hope you don't wear out your redial button. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Pagan To: Zenith List Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Hello All, Been lurking on the list for some time. Building 601QBK I took delivery of about 3 weeks ago. I ordered the Corvair Conversion Manual and 601 installation manual from William Wynn (paid through paypal) about 3 weeks ago and haven't received it yet. Got no response to 2 emails and can't find a phone number on his website. Doesn't seem like a great way to do business. Has anybody else had any issues with this? Can anybody give me a phone number for him? Thanks Bill Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 ________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:11 PM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intro and William Wynn Question Thanks Bill. I appreciate the words of encouragement. I DID get a response from William this morning. He basically wrapped it all up in a nutshell and told me they updated their website and most all my questions will be answered on it. You might want to check it out. They have added a bunch of great photos (so use other builders can drool over...lol). He did put a lot of information on there. It answered all my basic questions and he DID put my mind to rest. William IS a very understanding and gracious gentleman - his biggest problem is he's just so damned busy all the time. I'm surprised he takes the time to sleep! Regards Larry H --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:01 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Taildragger or not Ask your wife. I asked mine and she said "nosewheel, please." Bob 601XL Do not archive ************** Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:58 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holding Nose up When I land well the nose stays up. When I'm off, the nose drops. The best landings I have are smooth. I hold the nose up + rv pilots say 'That's the way to land.' Actually, that's what an rv friend of my said when we landed when I flew with hin at the Arlington flyin. We work together on the ramp. (The rv pilot reference is supposed to be humorous.) The nose will drop if I hit the runway too fast. If I'm in good form, I'm easing the stick back and touch the runway with a very low descent rate. And near stall speed. Then I can hold the nose up. With a bit of power I can taxi for a mile+ with the nose up. (Boeing Field has a 2 mile long runway.) If I land on 34L I ask for a long landing. And I fly down the center line at 10 feet AGL and 80 knots and touch down at A2 and turn right at A1. I try to set the nose down gently. I'd rather not taxi the 2 miles. Yes, I've had the nose drop hard. Not a good landing. I don't like that. I earned my instrument rating last year. It took longer than I expected. I flew C172s for that. It is easier to set the C172 nose down gently than it is with the CH601XL. But I still like the XL better than the Cessna. Off the ground at the numbers at BFI and I'm confident flying down the runway and touching down near the end. Oh yeah, the XL does great 60 degree steep turns with the canopy full of the sky. Not as fun in a high wing. Anyone want to go flying !!!!!!!! Joe E N633Z @ BFI CH601XL, 504 hours Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49 wood prop do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.