Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:13 AM - Re: Cabin airfoil (stepinwolf)
2. 03:55 AM - dual brake line fittings. (chris Sinfield)
3. 04:26 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Edward Moody II)
4. 04:46 AM - Re: Any builders/flyers in the State College PA area (JURU8878)
5. 04:52 AM - Re: Cabin airfoil (kmccune)
6. 05:07 AM - Re: dual brake line fittings. (burbby)
7. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Dave G.)
8. 06:29 AM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (my post , read or delete) (Jaybannist@cs.com)
9. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Jaybannist@cs.com)
10. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (MacDonald Doug)
11. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (steve)
12. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (steve)
13. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (LRM)
14. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
15. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Jaybannist@cs.com)
16. 08:36 AM - William Wynne (Gary Thomas)
17. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (MacDonald Doug)
18. 09:13 AM - Re: Cabin airfoil (Jim McBurney)
19. 11:14 AM - Re: Cabin airfoil (kmccune)
20. 12:16 PM - Re: dual brake line fittings. (chris Sinfield)
21. 12:36 PM - Re: Cabin airfoil (ronlee)
22. 01:18 PM - Re: William Wynne (kmccune)
23. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Bill Berle)
24. 01:45 PM - 601XL Wingtips for Sale (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
25. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Bill Berle)
26. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Bill Berle)
27. 01:57 PM - Re: Re: Any builders/flyers in the State College PA area (Ashcraft, Keith -AES)
28. 02:11 PM - Re: Taildragger or not (dalemed)
29. 02:51 PM - Re: 601XL Wingtips for Sale (William Dominguez)
30. 02:55 PM - Fw: Re: 601XL Wingtips for Sale (William Dominguez)
31. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: dual brake line fittings. ()
32. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Bryan Martin)
33. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: dual brake line fittings. (Craig Payne)
34. 06:19 PM - Rotary engines for all Zenith Aircraft (Jerry Hey)
35. 06:19 PM - origin of lift [was Re: Cabin airfoil] (Peter Chapman)
36. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: Cabin airfoil (Don_Lewis)
37. 07:51 PM - Let's change the subject - Zenith wing efficiency (JohnDRead@aol.com)
38. 08:21 PM - Re: Let's change the subject - Zenith wing efficiency (jetboy)
39. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: Let's change the subject - Zenith wing efficiency (JohnDRead@aol.com)
40. 09:02 PM - Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (my post , read or delete) (Gary Gower)
41. 11:46 PM - Re: Let's change the subject - Zenith wing efficiency (John Marzulli)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Kevin, thanks for your input.
I am in no way an engineer, but I always thought that lift was created by the
low pressure area on top of the wing. If we look at most of the light aircraft
on the market today, they all seem to have an airfoil over the top of cabin
area, so I'm guessing it has to be a factor in the overall performance of the
wing.
Bob
--------
Live each day, as if it was your last
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160539#160539
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| Subject: | dual brake line fittings. |
Gang its late so please help me out..
1. On the Duel brake kit for my XL there are 2 X 90 Deg brass brake line fittings.
F469-4A. Where do these go and why 90 Deg?? it looks to me as if they would
still work with the normal straight ones ,so why the 90 Deg? Any one got a
picture of the Dual Brake piping?
2. there is also 2 Tee fittings out of the fuel system F964-6 that I cannot find
a home for..
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160540#160540
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
You are partially correct. The rest of the story is the realtively
higher airpressure under the corresponding undersurface of the plane
(the fuselage in this discussion). The differential produces your lift.
Both the shape of the airfoil and the AOA are factors in producing lift.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: stepinwolf
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 5:10 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cabin airfoil
<robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
Kevin, thanks for your input.
I am in no way an engineer, but I always thought that lift was
created by the low pressure area on top of the wing. If we look at most
of the light aircraft on the market today, they all seem to have an
airfoil over the top of cabin area, so I'm guessing it has to be a
factor in the overall performance of the wing.
Bob
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| Subject: | Re: Any builders/flyers in the State College PA area |
Keith,
I grew up right over the mountain from State College in Lewistown area. My cousin
has a little grass strip (Wagner, identifier 1PA4) there. I know there is
a guy flying a 701 in the Belleville area somehwere, I believe his last name
is Byler, can't remember his first though. might want to try the FAA to possible
find out.
v/r,
Jud
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160543#160543
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
This is my thought too. The shorter path underneath is just as important as the
top shape. You may get lift right as the sides of the cabin were the standard
wing tapers down. And it would seem to reduce drag. But you would lose the prop
wash on the rear at low speeds. Though the Savannah seems to do just fine
with this section over the roof.
My guess is that it just looks nice this way. Early high wing airplanes were all
open so there was lift in this area. When they put the cabin on, they simply
set the wing on top of it. ( total conjecture on my part by the way :_) )
Some designs also have a tube running the full span acting as the main spar. This
kind of forces the shape over the cabin.
There may still be lift there, but I like I said I have no idea how it would work.
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160544#160544
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| Subject: | Re: dual brake line fittings. |
Chris:
I think you will find your answer on this website. The page is not real clear
but I printed the page and it was a good readable diagram.
http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/mastercylinder21a.jpg
HYD Schematic MC-5 and MC-4
Hope this is what you need.
Thanks
Gary
N7601 (resereved
Millsap, Tx
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
This explains a lot about wings, and airfoils. It appears to be a complex
subject. http://www.regenpress.com/
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (my post , read or |
delete)
Gary,
?Como estas? You are absolutely right. William Wynne is still in business because
he sells inexpensive, excellent, tested products. He is NOT a businessman.
This is a hobby for him that just happens to produce some income. His passion
is performing as the Corvair guru at his Corvair Colleges, which produces
no income.
My only problem with William is that he will promise a delivery date of a product,
knowing full well that he can't keep that promise. I have had him promise
delivery five or six times, over a period of seven to nine months, before finally
delivering. If he would just be honest about when he can actually deliver
a product, all the controversy would go away, immediately.
Buenos dias - Jay in Dallas
Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hello Friends.
> This tread has been in the list for years... And W W keeps making parts for
such a great engine. at its own pace, like the battery rabbit.
> I was not going to post about this, but could not resist :-) Probably I am
completly wrong but I feel this way.
>
> Personal note to clarify my position:
> In our present case we are not using the WW Corvair conversion in our 601XL,
reason is that we were building our kit, with no engine decision yet (as most
of the list remember, from my posts). A couple of months ago, when we were
building, a local pilot came to our shop to see how a Zenith kit was built (he
was one point short to order a kit itself).
> He got in love with the plane and bought our project on the spot, with the condition
that we will finish the plane for him... He chossed the Jab 3300 as
a powerplant (great engine in fact)...
>
> Now back to WW.
> I have been in Ultralight- Homebuilding since 1982, lots of companies (with
good faith all, or most of them) have open and closed their doors in the auto
engine conversion dream.
> We all dream to have the perfect auto conversion: Powerfull, inexpensive, low
GPH regular auto fuel, light weight with in reason, off the shelf spare parts,
etc. Yes I know, is almost impossible, the ones that still are in business
all have something "not perfect" in their engine conversion, but can for sure
be flown in a safe way.
>
> One thing I am sure with WW (I dont have the honor of meet him in person yet)
but read about him since his first articles in the magazines (?year).
> What I can tell you is that I am sure that all of us (low buck homebuilders)
we have in them (WW and TEAM) one of the hand full most honest group of persons
in that business.
> Their only problem (personal opinion) is that probably they dont charge enough
as their product (parts amd knowlege) is worth,,, (Low price engine goal)
> There are two sides of having a succesfull company (and lots ways in betwen).
> One that makes lots of money, no matter sometimes how and what, and another
one that keeps first class quality first of all, even with income sacrifice,
>
> For this last ones, their word and prestige is more important that money .
Also some of this "Self made CEOs" find the BIG problem that they (and team)
need to learn to manage a new born business and at the same time continue to
develope their good products with low competitive price in mind... Two Very
diferent Goals with few personel.
>
> Now Closing: I only hope that we all have the patience to give them a chance,
in the mean time they learn to grow as a succesfull company (as big as they
feel confortable).
> Is not an easy task in either part (we or them), but at least we, with the
size of our wallets, have other more expensive engine options :-)
> They dont, they will keep their good, hard, honest work, with us or without
us buying.
> Now as you say in USA: Off the soap box :-)
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
> 701 912S, builsing 601XL Jab 3300
> "Important bonus: We also have the luck to build our kits from another Honest
Team: The Heintz family"
>
>
>Larry H <skyridersbn@yahoo.com> wrote:
> William did respond with another email to me, asking me the person's name
that had made these statements to me. I gave William the name. William told
me he would personally look into it and resolve this immediately. He said there
should be no reason WHY this person would be saying this - if he owes him parts,
he will do his best to clear this up.
>
> William did also say that they have updated their webpage. As for those of
us waiting on conversion manuals, William told me they are making a updates to
them and would ship them out as soon as they are done. If you also ordered the
CH601 installation manual along with the conversion manual, they usually ship
them together, so hold tight and wait a bit longer please....they ARE coming
soon!
>
> Larry
>
>---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Kevin,
A lot of our list posters seem to have bought into the premise that an airplane
flies because of the lift provided by the Bernoulli effect of the upper surface
of the wing. In fact, most of the lift is provided by Newton, pushing on the
bottom surface of the wing (With enough power, you can fly a barn door). This
speaks very loudly about the "expertise" of some of our most prolific posters,
right?
Jay in Dallas
"kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>
>I have heard of others doing this, one I believe to be quite knowledgeable . But
I just can not see how you can get any lift from this. There is no bottom of
the airfoil.
>
>--------
>Kevin
>N701DZ Reserved
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160531#160531
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Bob and Kevin, I am by no means an expert in
aerodynamics so take this with a grain of salt.
Chris Hientz is the master of form follows function.
He did the wings on the 701 the way he did for one
reason for sure, in a high angle of bank, your
visability out the top will be much better because of
the thinner wing profile at the root. Additionally,
there has been some mention on this group of prop
blast to the tail feathers through the opening. I
can't comment on that one but it at least makes sense.
As a comparison, I checked out a Land Africa (rip off
of a rip off of a 701)that a friend of mine was
helping to build. It had the airfoil shape over the
cabin. While the Land Africa has a really nice three
angle instrument panel, the cabin top was kind of ugly
in my eyes. I know, beauty is not something that
whould be used in the same e-mail as anything about a
701. In all honesty, the change to the cabin looked
to me like it was done to simplify construction of the
wing roots more than provide additional lift. Lets
face it, fitting those wing roots on the 701 looks
like a bit of a challenge. I'll see when I get there
in a couple of months.
As for the amount of lift created by the one sided
airfoil, I can explain that a bit. First, this
information come from the ground school lectures that
I teach to the youth group I work with. It comes from
their lesson plans and from the ASA ground school DVD
I use as a basis for my lessons. I am sure there are
more knowledgable people on this list than me that
will fill in the blanks if I am incorrect on my
impressions.
Lift on an airfoil can be broken down into two main
parts. The first part is called (I think) Plate Lift
and is the effect of the relative wind hitting the
bottom of the wing. Same idea as sticking your hand
out the window of a car going down the highway. If I
understand my aerodynamics correctly, this part of the
lift makes up about 60% if the total lift generated by
a wing. The other 40% is made up by the air being
accellerated over the top of the wing and creating low
pressure ala Bernoulli.
So, providing my understanding of aerodynamic
principals is accurate, you will not gain much by
adding the 4 ft of span to the airfoil shape.
Especially if the interference of the rear fuselage
has any effect of the efficiency of the airflow over
the airfoil shape. The big advantage would be not
having to build the tapered wing root.
Again, if someone has a better understanding of this
than me, feel free to straighten us all out.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
> <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
>
> Kevin, thanks for your input.
>
> I am in no way an engineer, but I always thought
> that lift was created by the low pressure area on
> top of the wing. If we look at most of the light
> aircraft on the market today, they all seem to have
> an airfoil over the top of cabin area, so I'm
> guessing it has to be a factor in the overall
> performance of the wing.
>
> Bob
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
I stand correct............
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:33 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Cabin airfoil
>
> Kevin,
>
> A lot of our list posters seem to have bought into the premise that an
> airplane flies because of the lift provided by the Bernoulli effect of the
> upper surface of the wing. In fact, most of the lift is provided by
> Newton, pushing on the bottom surface of the wing (With enough power, you
> can fly a barn door). This speaks very loudly about the "expertise" of
> some of our most prolific posters, right?
>
> Jay in Dallas
>
>
> "kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>I have heard of others doing this, one I believe to be quite knowledgeable
>>. But I just can not see how you can get any lift from this. There is no
>>bottom of the airfoil.
>>
>>--------
>>Kevin
>>N701DZ Reserved
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160531#160531
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Bernoulli ?
Ever watch a DC 9 take off?
Short wings and carries 137 people PLUS baggage.....
There is a lot of Bernoulli happening........Not!
----- Original Message -----
From: "MacDonald Doug" <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cabin airfoil
>
> Bob and Kevin, I am by no means an expert in
> aerodynamics so take this with a grain of salt.
>
> Chris Hientz is the master of form follows function.
> He did the wings on the 701 the way he did for one
> reason for sure, in a high angle of bank, your
> visability out the top will be much better because of
> the thinner wing profile at the root. Additionally,
> there has been some mention on this group of prop
> blast to the tail feathers through the opening. I
> can't comment on that one but it at least makes sense.
>
> As a comparison, I checked out a Land Africa (rip off
> of a rip off of a 701)that a friend of mine was
> helping to build. It had the airfoil shape over the
> cabin. While the Land Africa has a really nice three
> angle instrument panel, the cabin top was kind of ugly
> in my eyes. I know, beauty is not something that
> whould be used in the same e-mail as anything about a
> 701. In all honesty, the change to the cabin looked
> to me like it was done to simplify construction of the
> wing roots more than provide additional lift. Lets
> face it, fitting those wing roots on the 701 looks
> like a bit of a challenge. I'll see when I get there
> in a couple of months.
>
> As for the amount of lift created by the one sided
> airfoil, I can explain that a bit. First, this
> information come from the ground school lectures that
> I teach to the youth group I work with. It comes from
> their lesson plans and from the ASA ground school DVD
> I use as a basis for my lessons. I am sure there are
> more knowledgable people on this list than me that
> will fill in the blanks if I am incorrect on my
> impressions.
>
> Lift on an airfoil can be broken down into two main
> parts. The first part is called (I think) Plate Lift
> and is the effect of the relative wind hitting the
> bottom of the wing. Same idea as sticking your hand
> out the window of a car going down the highway. If I
> understand my aerodynamics correctly, this part of the
> lift makes up about 60% if the total lift generated by
> a wing. The other 40% is made up by the air being
> accellerated over the top of the wing and creating low
> pressure ala Bernoulli.
>
> So, providing my understanding of aerodynamic
> principals is accurate, you will not gain much by
> adding the 4 ft of span to the airfoil shape.
> Especially if the interference of the rear fuselage
> has any effect of the efficiency of the airflow over
> the airfoil shape. The big advantage would be not
> having to build the tapered wing root.
>
> Again, if someone has a better understanding of this
> than me, feel free to straighten us all out.
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch Builder
> NW Ontario, Canada
>
>
>> <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
>>
>> Kevin, thanks for your input.
>>
>> I am in no way an engineer, but I always thought
>> that lift was created by the low pressure area on
>> top of the wing. If we look at most of the light
>> aircraft on the market today, they all seem to have
>> an airfoil over the top of cabin area, so I'm
>> guessing it has to be a factor in the overall
>> performance of the wing.
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
One thing not mentioned is the increased headroom for those who might need
or want it. The other is the using of the term "rip off". I remind every
one that the 701 is in fact a copy of a multitude of parts used by
previously like aircraft, by no means is it an original design. I would
never say it's a rip off, it's just smart engineering of proven concepts and
parts, as is the Savanna.
LRM, skyhawg.com.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MacDonald Doug" <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cabin airfoil
>
> Bob and Kevin, I am by no means an expert in
> aerodynamics so take this with a grain of salt.
>
> Chris Hientz is the master of form follows function.
> He did the wings on the 701 the way he did for one
> reason for sure, in a high angle of bank, your
> visability out the top will be much better because of
> the thinner wing profile at the root. Additionally,
> there has been some mention on this group of prop
> blast to the tail feathers through the opening. I
> can't comment on that one but it at least makes sense.
>
> As a comparison, I checked out a Land Africa (rip off
> of a rip off of a 701)that a friend of mine was
> helping to build. It had the airfoil shape over the
> cabin. While the Land Africa has a really nice three
> angle instrument panel, the cabin top was kind of ugly
> in my eyes. I know, beauty is not something that
> whould be used in the same e-mail as anything about a
> 701. In all honesty, the change to the cabin looked
> to me like it was done to simplify construction of the
> wing roots more than provide additional lift. Lets
> face it, fitting those wing roots on the 701 looks
> like a bit of a challenge. I'll see when I get there
> in a couple of months.
>
> As for the amount of lift created by the one sided
> airfoil, I can explain that a bit. First, this
> information come from the ground school lectures that
> I teach to the youth group I work with. It comes from
> their lesson plans and from the ASA ground school DVD
> I use as a basis for my lessons. I am sure there are
> more knowledgable people on this list than me that
> will fill in the blanks if I am incorrect on my
> impressions.
>
> Lift on an airfoil can be broken down into two main
> parts. The first part is called (I think) Plate Lift
> and is the effect of the relative wind hitting the
> bottom of the wing. Same idea as sticking your hand
> out the window of a car going down the highway. If I
> understand my aerodynamics correctly, this part of the
> lift makes up about 60% if the total lift generated by
> a wing. The other 40% is made up by the air being
> accellerated over the top of the wing and creating low
> pressure ala Bernoulli.
>
> So, providing my understanding of aerodynamic
> principals is accurate, you will not gain much by
> adding the 4 ft of span to the airfoil shape.
> Especially if the interference of the rear fuselage
> has any effect of the efficiency of the airflow over
> the airfoil shape. The big advantage would be not
> having to build the tapered wing root.
>
> Again, if someone has a better understanding of this
> than me, feel free to straighten us all out.
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch Builder
> NW Ontario, Canada
>
>
>> <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca>
>>
>> Kevin, thanks for your input.
>>
>> I am in no way an engineer, but I always thought
>> that lift was created by the low pressure area on
>> top of the wing. If we look at most of the light
>> aircraft on the market today, they all seem to have
>> an airfoil over the top of cabin area, so I'm
>> guessing it has to be a factor in the overall
>> performance of the wing.
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
> --
> 1/25/2008 11:24 AM
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
But to get the barn door to fly it must be at an angle to the air flow. Thus
the air flow over the door will appear to be an airfoil. Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 1/26/2008 9:37:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Jaybannist@cs.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com
Kevin,
A lot of our list posters seem to have bought into the premise that an
airplane flies because of the lift provided by the Bernoulli effect of the upper
surface of the wing. In fact, most of the lift is provided by Newton, pushing
on the bottom surface of the wing (With enough power, you can fly a barn
door). This speaks very loudly about the "expertise" of some of our most
prolific posters, right?
Jay in Dallas
"kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net>
>
>I have heard of others doing this, one I believe to be quite knowledgeable
. But I just can not see how you can get any lift from this. There is no
bottom of the airfoil.
>
>--------
>Kevin
>N701DZ Reserved
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160531#160531
>
>
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Also true. For anyone really interested in the lift theory, there is an excellent (and long) item on the subject at www.eskimo.com/~billb/wing/airfoil.html. The true/false session at the end is the most informative.
Jay in Dallas
Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote:
>But to get the barn door to fly it must be at an angle to the air flow. Thus
>the air flow over the door will appear to be an airfoil. Jerry of Ga
>
>
>In a message dated 1/26/2008 9:37:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>Jaybannist@cs.com writes:
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com
>
>Kevin,
>
>A lot of our list posters seem to have bought into the premise that an
>airplane flies because of the lift provided by the Bernoulli effect of the upper
>surface of the wing. In fact, most of the lift is provided by Newton, pushing
>on the bottom surface of the wing (With enough power, you can fly a barn
>door). This speaks very loudly about the "expertise" of some of our most
>prolific posters, right?
>
>Jay in Dallas
>
>
>"kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net>
>>
>>I have heard of others doing this, one I believe to be quite knowledgeable
>. But I just can not see how you can get any lift from this. There is no
>bottom of the airfoil.
>>
>>--------
>>Kevin
>>N701DZ Reserved
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160531#160531
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
>(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
>48)
>
Message 16
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All,
This may not be the right forum for this, but I feel compelled to comment on
the recent speculation regarding William Wynne and people's expectations for customer
service.
Clearly we are not dealing with Walmart here - he doesn't have a computerised
inventory system using just-in-time algorithms. This is just one man trying
to research improvements to the application (and he has made many, including multiple
iterations of the oil system), build and outsource components, write educational
manuals, answer the phone and provide advice. On top of that he built
a 601XL airplane and gave rides in it (I was one lucky recipient when I first
moved down to Florida).
As this stage of his business (where his products continue to evolve), the occasional
hiccup is to be expected. Like many others, I have had to wait for parts.
I think the solution is to prepare well ahead of time and work on the engine
in parallel with the airframe. There are plenty of head-scratching moments
in putting together an engine, and the more time you allow yourself, the less
time for anxiety over shipments.
I will grant one minor criticism - he is sometimes can't be reached and is reluctant
to give bad news about delays; this only adds to the anxiety of those
more used to running down to walmart to pick up items at short notice. For the
solution, see prior paragraph. The flip side to this is his generosity with
time when you do reach him. He is full of encouragement and helpful advice for
what after all is a pretty challenging endeavor.
Given his obvious pride in driving old trucks, he is not doing this to get rich.
So when he sells his plane, I see that less as a sign of problems than as
a sign that he intends to get inventories built up to satisfy what appears to
be a growing number of customers.
Obviously we're all grown-ups and can make our own choices. We're also all smart
enough to see through the idle speculation and misinformation to get at the
real gems of insight on this forum. My advice - talk to someone who's already
done it.
Best wishes to all
Gary Thomas 601XL / Corvair, 95% done, 95% still to go
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Okay, for sake of argument, we'll agree to disagree on
the relationship between the CH-701 and the Savannah.
Third hand knowledge (take it for what it's worth)is
that the Savannah boys in Alberta have commented that
the Land Africa is a rip off of the Savannah.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do not archive
--- LRM <lrm@skyhawg.com> wrote:
> <lrm@skyhawg.com>
>
> One thing not mentioned is the increased headroom
> for those who might need
> or want it. The other is the using of the term "rip
> off". I remind every
> one that the 701 is in fact a copy of a multitude of
> parts used by
> previously like aircraft, by no means is it an
> original design. I would
> never say it's a rip off, it's just smart
> engineering of proven concepts and
> parts, as is the Savanna.
>
> LRM, skyhawg.com.
>
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Hi, all,
You would lose some (maybe "a little") control authority from the
tailfeathers due to blanking of some of the prop's discharge air.
Just a thought.
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA USA
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Its funny , but I am having a hard time figuring out who agrees with whom! :D
Do not archive
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160583#160583
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| Subject: | Re: dual brake line fittings. |
Thanks,
I have that diagram and understand where the lines go, its just that that diagram
dose not show where the 2X 90 Deg male connectors go.
My guess is that they go at the top of the valves and enable the 2 plastic hoses
to be pointed straight back down towards the floor area.
anyone got a picture of their duel brake lines? a picture is worth a thousand words
they say.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160584#160584
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
I can assure you all that the 701 lexan roof is creating lift just as it is. When
on the ground the top of the lexan window is very tight to the cross brace.
I have to push very hard to create any gap. When in flight I can almost get my
fingers between the cross brace and the lexan. What I don't know is if it would
create more lift if it was a filled in airfoil conforming to the top of the
wing. Because the windshield actually blends into the top lexan, it is in a
crude way creating an airfoil.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160587#160587
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| Subject: | Re: William Wynne |
I just figured that: He wanted more inventory, that the plain was fully depreciated,
and that he was going to build another one to put his engine in. And he
soon may have to deal with 701 guys too!
Pluses all around!
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160590#160590
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> In fact, most of the lift is provided by Newton, pushing on the bottom surface
of the wing (With enough power, you can fly a barn door). This speaks very
loudly about the "expertise" of some of our most prolific posters, right?
Louder than you think :)
The real expert aerodynamicists out there have explained that the
circulation flow pattern around the airfoil, and the amount of air being
displaced downward, contributes far more than the Bernoulli effect or
the "planing" effect you mention. I am not an expert on the circulation
theory but I am aware that all of the real, employed, expert level
aerodynamics people 100% believe in it.
Message 24
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| Subject: | 601XL Wingtips for Sale |
Gang:
I have an new, unused pair of fiberglass wing tips for the 601XL for
sale. (I decided to go with the 1-piece tips.) These are part #6W9-5L
and 6W9-5R. They list for $28.10 each on the Zenith web site. I will
sell the pair for $30 plus shipping. Scratch building? Change your tip
lights? Need a back-up pair?
Please contact me off-list,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD, Corvair, building...
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Larry, I'd be interested to know what design or designs the 701 is a
copy of.Using this logic you could say that the P-51 or the Stealth
fighter is an amalgam of previously designed parts.
LRM wrote:
> I remind every one that the 701 is in fact a copy of a multitude of
> parts used by previously like aircraft, by no means is it an original
> design.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
Now if that ain't Al Sharpton calling Jesse Jackson black...
MacDonald Doug wrote:
> that the Savannah boys in Alberta have commented that
> the Land Africa is a rip off of the Savannah.
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Any builders/flyers in the State College PA area |
Thanks for the info Jud,
I will see what I can come up with.
Thanks again,
Keith
***************************************************************************
*
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of JURU8878
Sent: Sat 1/26/2008 5:43 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Any builders/flyers in the State College PA area
Keith,
I grew up right over the mountain from State College in Lewistown area. My
cousin has a little grass strip (Wagner, identifier 1PA4) there. I know t
here is a guy flying a 701 in the Belleville area somehwere, I believe his
last name is Byler, can't remember his first though. might want to try the
FAA to possible find out.
v/r,
Jud
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160543#160543
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| Subject: | Re: Taildragger or not |
About 1200 of my 1300 hours are in taildraggers. I've owned a Taylorcraft BC12D,
a Cessna 140 and currently a Cessna 170.
I've recently started building a 601XL and thought I'd build the nose gear version
primarily because I've never owned a trike. I also figured it would be nice
to not have to use differential braking in a cross wind. However, I'm starting
to have second thoughts. I like the looks of the TD version better (in fact,
I like the looks of taildraggers in general). I also like the fact that
the plane weighs less and has less drag (but I'd still be limited to 120 kts in
the LSA category).
Once you get some time built up in a TD, I don't think there's much of a premium
for insurance.
Can anyone tell me the weight difference between the TD and trike?
Dale
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160602#160602
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wingtips for Sale |
Hi Andrew,
I want them. Please send me payment instructions.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom/
"Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net> wrote: BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION:
left top; MARGIN-TOP: 10px; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; COLOR: #000000;
BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New } Gang:
I have an new, unused pair of fiberglass wing tips for the 601XL for sale. (I
decided to go with the 1-piece tips.) These are part #6W9-5L and 6W9-5R. They
list for $28.10 each on the Zenith web site. I will sell the pair for $30
plus shipping. Scratch building? Change your tip lights? Need a back-up pair?
Please contact me off-list,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD, Corvair, building...
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wingtips for Sale |
Sorry, I intended to send this message off list.
William Dominguez
do not archive
William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com> wrote: Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:47:09 -0800
(PST)
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wingtips for Sale
Hi Andrew,
I want them. Please send me payment instructions.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom/
"Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net> wrote: BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION:
left top; MARGIN-TOP: 10px; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; COLOR: #000000;
BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Courier New } Gang:
I have an new, unused pair of fiberglass wing tips for the 601XL for sale. (I
decided to go with the 1-piece tips.) These are part #6W9-5L and 6W9-5R. They
list for $28.10 each on the Zenith web site. I will sell the pair for $30
plus shipping. Scratch building? Change your tip lights? Need a back-up pair?
Please contact me off-list,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD, Corvair, building...
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: dual brake line fittings. |
While we are on this subject anyone have a photo or
diagram that shows how to hook up a parking brake .
Thanks in advance
J. Core
601xl kit Oh
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
The airfoil segment over the top of the fuselage can't really be
considered part of the wing, it is part of the fuselage so the entire
fuselage must be considered as the airfoil section at that point. You
have, in effect, a very low aspect ratio airfoil at that point and low
AR wings tend to have very low L/D ratios. Basically, you may gain
some lift by continuing the airfoil shape over the fuselage but you
will probably get more extra drag than lift. This will be made worse
because you will also be adding more surface area exposed to the
airstream and therefore more parasite drag.
Then there is the extra weight to consider. You can minimize this by
building the segment from aluminum, you might actually be able to
reduce weight this way because you won't need the relatively heavy
plexiglas for the top of the cabin. You will lose a lot of visibility
upward and into a turn though.
If you want to retain the visibility though the top of the cabin, you
will have to build out of plexiglas. This will require more plexiglas
that would otherwise be needed and would add more weight. You would
gain several inches of headroom, but do you really need that?
On the high-wing Cessnas, they didn't continue the airfoil curve
across the top of the fuselage to get more lift. On the Cessnas, the
wing is mounted lower on the fuselage such that the top of the wing is
even with the top of the cabin, so the shape was continued over the
fuselage for ease of construction. If you've ever flown a high wing
cessna, you will remember the wings block out a lot of sky to the
sides and top of the cabin. You always have to lift the inside wing to
check for traffic before banking into a turn.
Overall, the only reason I can see for continuing the wing airfoil
over the fuselage on the 701 is strictly for looks.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: dual brake line fittings. |
Try the Matco site. This should take you to a page of diagrams:
http://tinyurl.com/3ycbss
If not go to http://www.matcomfg.com/, click on the "Technical Support"
button on the left side, and then "Master Cylinder & Park Brake Valve
Assembly, Installation & HYD Schematic Drawings"
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EROC@bright.net
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual brake line fittings.
While we are on this subject anyone have a photo or
diagram that shows how to hook up a parking brake .
Thanks in advance
J. Core
601xl kit Oh
Message 34
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| Subject: | Rotary engines for all Zenith Aircraft |
I have not seen mention of the Rotamax engines on this list,
probably because they are so new, but they are ideal for our
purposes. I have long been a fan of the Mazda Rotary but it is too
heavy and too powerful for our use. All that has changed with the
Rotamax. Rather than write a long description I refer you to their
web site. Jerry
http://www.rotaryaircraftengines.com
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: origin of lift [was Re: Cabin airfoil] |
At 09:33 26-01-08, you wrote:
>A lot of our list posters seem to have bought into the premise that
>an airplane flies because of the lift provided by the Bernoulli
>effect of the upper surface of the wing. In fact, most of the lift
>is provided by Newton, pushing on the bottom surface of the wing
>(With enough power, you can fly a barn door). This speaks very
>loudly about the "expertise" of some of our most prolific posters, right?
This is a topic that could go on forever and divert attention from
actually building Zeniths... but I can't help sticking my nose in.
I say there's more pulling up than pushing up.
There is no single way to describe lift. The same forces can be
described in different terms. Lift does depend on suction pressures
on top of the wing and positive pressures underneath (that is, the
pressures all around the wing!), and there's a net downward
deflection of air through this process - upwards lift from pushing
air down. So the Bernoulli stuff explains in detail how the Newton
stuff happens overall. If one prefers to talk of circulation, well, a
net circulation is also a result of the whole process.
Yes one can fly a barn door with enough power. Max lift will be poor
(say, halved) and drag will be way way up, and angle of attack will
be very high to create the lift. So on the one hand, no one doesn't
need a nice rounded airfoil to fly, on the other hand, it sure helps a lot.
As for whether there's more pulling on top or pushing on bottom, I'm
still in the camp that says the lift on top is the larger contributor
in normal circumstances.
The inline attachment (if it transmits OK) shows an aerodynamic
code's results for a typical light plane airfoil at a typical higher
speed flight and lower speed flight -- A NACA 2412 at 4 degrees
(smooth line) and 8 degrees (line with boxes) angle of attack
relative to the chord line.
Pressure distributions are shown.
Without getting into too much detail, for each line, the area above
the horizontal axis (suction upwards from the top of the wing) is a
lot more than the area below the axis (upwards push from the bottom
of the wing). So for typical airplane applications, there is a lot
more pulling up than pushing up!
(Now in the extreme case of a barn door at high angles of attack,
there's not much lift off the entirely stalled top surface, and a lot
of pressure on the bottom. That's one case where the pushing might
become more important than the pulling. Although even then there may
be some very useful vortex lift from the edges. But most of us prefer
to use rounded airfoils at low angles of attack, that takes advantage
of their incredible ability to create a lot of lift off their top
surface, without creating a ton of drag at the same time. I
personally only go the barn door route when flying a skydiving
wingsuit at a L/D ratio of under 2:1. And I still need to deploy a
real airfoil wing to survive the landing. )
Emacs!
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin airfoil |
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Martin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cabin airfoil
~~~~~SNIP~~~~~~~~
If you've ever flown a high wing cessna, you will remember the wings
block out a lot of sky to the
sides and top of the cabin. You always have to lift the inside wing
to check for traffic before banking into a turn.
~~~~ SNIP~~~~~~~~
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
You never flew a C120/140 ???
Message 37
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| Subject: | Let's change the subject - Zenith wing efficiency |
Hello List:
Slotted airfoils are interesting VG's seem to be fairly
controversial. Now why don't we start a discussion to add winglets to the CH701
wing. As it does on commercial jets it will prevent the lateral flow of air
around the wing tip and create more lift.
BTW Bernoulli provides about 10% of the lift of and airfoils - Newton
does the rest by banging the bottom of the wing into air molecules. The airfoil
shape allows passage of the wing through the air with a minimum of drag.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Let's change the subject - Zenith wing efficiency |
CH 701 already has hoerner wingtips like the 601 which act similar to winglets.
ZAC website has the design info.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160636#160636
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Let's change the subject - Zenith wing efficiency |
I know I'm building one. The hoerner tip is not as good as a winglet at
stopping the lateral flow.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 1/26/2008 9:22:08 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
sanson.r@xtra.co.nz writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jetboy" <sanson.r@xtra.co.nz>
CH 701 already has hoerner wingtips like the 601 which act similar to
winglets. ZAC website has the design info.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160636#160636
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Intro and William Wynn Question (my post , read or |
delete)
Hi Jay,
Yes, is a very comun problem in most type of (little) business and also in our
own lifes, to think (very optimistic) that things can be made in a second...
Happens sometimes in my own factory and at home, Remember the last time any
of us promised our lady to repair the driping fauset? could take 20 minutes
to get the tools and repair it, but was done is about 5 week ends because something
got in betwen ;-)
One advise given to us by our uncle (when my brother and me were beguining our
business in the 80's) was to make a deal at time, if we had 5 clients (prospects),
not promising to all that will be done the same day, even if we think
that we will loose one of twol if we promised a later programed delivery.
We knew that we could loose the 5th client to our competition... But at least
the other 4 were serviced in time. The other way, at least 4 promised at the
same time will not get their work that same moment.
Well, is easy to give advise to others, very dificult to listen and do it our
selfs :-)
My best wishes to William, Grace and Team, I realy hope to meet them some day,
will be a great experience to talk to them in an informal way.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
Gary,
?Como estas? You are absolutely right. William Wynne is still in business because
he sells inexpensive, excellent, tested products. He is NOT a businessman.
This is a hobby for him that just happens to produce some income. His passion
is performing as the Corvair guru at his Corvair Colleges, which produces no income.
My only problem with William is that he will promise a delivery date of a product,
knowing full well that he can't keep that promise. I have had him promise
delivery five or six times, over a period of seven to nine months, before finally
delivering. If he would just be honest about when he can actually deliver
a product, all the controversy would go away, immediately.
Buenos dias - Jay in Dallas
Gary Gower wrote:
>Hello Friends.
> This tread has been in the list for years... And W W keeps making parts for such
a great engine. at its own pace, like the battery rabbit.
> I was not going to post about this, but could not resist :-) Probably I am completly
wrong but I feel this way.
>
> Personal note to clarify my position:
> In our present case we are not using the WW Corvair conversion in our 601XL,
reason is that we were building our kit, with no engine decision yet (as most
of the list remember, from my posts). A couple of months ago, when we were building,
a local pilot came to our shop to see how a Zenith kit was built (he was
one point short to order a kit itself).
> He got in love with the plane and bought our project on the spot, with the condition
that we will finish the plane for him... He chossed the Jab 3300 as a
powerplant (great engine in fact)...
>
> Now back to WW.
> I have been in Ultralight- Homebuilding since 1982, lots of companies (with good
faith all, or most of them) have open and closed their doors in the auto engine
conversion dream.
> We all dream to have the perfect auto conversion: Powerfull, inexpensive, low
GPH regular auto fuel, light weight with in reason, off the shelf spare parts,
etc. Yes I know, is almost impossible, the ones that still are in business all
have something "not perfect" in their engine conversion, but can for sure be
flown in a safe way.
>
> One thing I am sure with WW (I dont have the honor of meet him in person yet)
but read about him since his first articles in the magazines (?year).
> What I can tell you is that I am sure that all of us (low buck homebuilders)
we have in them (WW and TEAM) one of the hand full most honest group of persons
in that business.
> Their only problem (personal opinion) is that probably they dont charge enough
as their product (parts amd knowlege) is worth,,, (Low price engine goal)
> There are two sides of having a succesfull company (and lots ways in betwen).
> One that makes lots of money, no matter sometimes how and what, and another one
that keeps first class quality first of all, even with income sacrifice,
>
> For this last ones, their word and prestige is more important that money . Also
some of this "Self made CEOs" find the BIG problem that they (and team) need
to learn to manage a new born business and at the same time continue to develope
their good products with low competitive price in mind... Two Very diferent
Goals with few personel.
>
> Now Closing: I only hope that we all have the patience to give them a chance,
in the mean time they learn to grow as a succesfull company (as big as they feel
confortable).
> Is not an easy task in either part (we or them), but at least we, with the size
of our wallets, have other more expensive engine options :-)
> They dont, they will keep their good, hard, honest work, with us or without us
buying.
> Now as you say in USA: Off the soap box :-)
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
> 701 912S, builsing 601XL Jab 3300
> "Important bonus: We also have the luck to build our kits from another Honest
Team: The Heintz family"
>
>
>Larry H wrote:
> William did respond with another email to me, asking me the person's name that
had made these statements to me. I gave William the name. William told me he
would personally look into it and resolve this immediately. He said there should
be no reason WHY this person would be saying this - if he owes him parts,
he will do his best to clear this up.
>
> William did also say that they have updated their webpage. As for those of us
waiting on conversion manuals, William told me they are making a updates to them
and would ship them out as soon as they are done. If you also ordered the
CH601 installation manual along with the conversion manual, they usually ship
them together, so hold tight and wait a bit longer please....they ARE coming soon!
>
> Larry
>
>---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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| Subject: | Re: Let's change the subject - Zenith wing efficiency |
Has anyone attempted winglets on the horizontal stabilizer?
I was wondering if it may be a good idea for a seaplane.
It would help with weathervaning and possibly give some more authority with
the elevator controls.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Jan 26, 2008 7:48 PM, <JohnDRead@aol.com> wrote:
> Hello List:
> Slotted airfoils are interesting VG's seem to be fairly
> controversial. Now why don't we start a discussion to add winglets to the
> CH701 wing. As it does on commercial jets it will prevent the lateral flow
> of air around the wing tip and create more lift.
>
> BTW Bernoulli provides about 10% of the lift of and airfoils - Newton
> does the rest by banging the bottom of the wing into air molecules. The
> airfoil shape allows passage of the wing through the air with a minimum of
> drag.
>
> John Read
>
> Phone: 303-648-3261
> Fax: 303-648-3262
> Cell: 719-494-4567
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.<http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
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