---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/30/08: 71 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:06 AM - Re: Aileron Fit (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 2. 03:15 AM - Re: Flying a 701 without doors (John Bolding) 3. 03:24 AM - Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins (David Downey) 4. 05:04 AM - Re: Aileron Fit (ashontz) 5. 05:11 AM - Re: Aileron Fit (ashontz) 6. 05:13 AM - Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins (Al Hays) 7. 05:17 AM - Re: Forming blocks - a 'right of passage"??? (ashontz) 8. 05:28 AM - Workshop Tip - air compressor (ashontz) 9. 05:36 AM - Re: Workshop Tip - air compressor (GLJSOJ1) 10. 05:39 AM - DOORS!!!, Don't need no stinkin doors!! (Brett Hanley) 11. 05:48 AM - Re: Re: Workshop Tip - air compressor (Rob St Denis) 12. 06:19 AM - Phase I Test Flight Testing (cookwithgas) 13. 06:24 AM - ethanol in autofuel (Joe Spencer) 14. 06:25 AM - Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (Aerolitellc@aol.com) 15. 06:56 AM - Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (Bryan Martin) 16. 07:05 AM - Re: Workshop Tip - air compressor (ashontz) 17. 07:14 AM - Re: Aileron Fit (ashontz) 18. 07:48 AM - Landing Gear (LHusky@aol.com) 19. 07:51 AM - Re: Aileron Fit (dfmoeller) 20. 07:58 AM - Re: Aileron Fit (ashontz) 21. 08:40 AM - Re: Test flight (LarryMcFarland) 22. 09:06 AM - Re: ethanol in autofuel (Gig Giacona) 23. 09:06 AM - Re: XCOM radio and seperate intercom (Tommy Walker) 24. 09:13 AM - Re: test flight (Gig Giacona) 25. 09:15 AM - Re: XCOM radio and seperate intercom (ken smith) 26. 09:28 AM - Re: ethanol in autofuel (Bryan Martin) 27. 09:49 AM - Re: XCOM radio and seperate intercom (Randy) 28. 09:51 AM - A small setback (Jim McBurney) 29. 09:56 AM - Re: ethanol in autogas (Al Hays) 30. 10:06 AM - Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (LarryMcFarland) 31. 10:14 AM - Re: A small setback (billmileski) 32. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: Aileron Fit (William Dominguez) 33. 10:29 AM - Re: A small setback () 34. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Aileron Fit (John Bolding) 35. 10:44 AM - Re: A small setback () 36. 10:49 AM - Re: ethanol in autofuel () 37. 10:58 AM - Re: A small setback (dgardea(at)gmail.com) 38. 11:00 AM - Re: A small setback (PatrickW) 39. 11:14 AM - Re: Test flight (THOMAS SMALL) 40. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Aileron Fit (Aerolitellc@aol.com) 41. 01:03 PM - Re: ethanol in autogas (LarryMcFarland) 42. 01:15 PM - Request for Zenith Builders at SunNFun 08 () 43. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: test flight (Bryan Martin) 44. 01:38 PM - Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (cookwithgas) 45. 02:31 PM - Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins (George Swinford) 46. 03:38 PM - Re: Forming blocks - a 'right of passage"??? (kmccune) 47. 03:38 PM - Re: Aileron Fit (Jugle) 48. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Fit (Aaron Gustafson) 49. 04:00 PM - Re: A small setback (kmccune) 50. 04:28 PM - Re: Test flight (Bill Naumuk) 51. 05:33 PM - Address (Bill Naumuk) 52. 05:41 PM - Re: ethanol in autofuel (Gary Ray) 53. 06:23 PM - Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins (Dave G.) 54. 06:27 PM - Re: Address (Edward Moody II) 55. 06:38 PM - Re: Address (ken smith) 56. 06:52 PM - Re: Lift sling for the CH-701 (Carl) 57. 06:59 PM - Painting the cabin (Brad Cohen) 58. 07:13 PM - Re: Address (Art Olechowski) 59. 07:21 PM - Re: Address (Bill Steer) 60. 07:24 PM - By The Way (Brad Cohen) 61. 07:28 PM - Re: Aileron Fit (Ron Lendon) 62. 07:29 PM - Re: Address (wade jones) 63. 07:35 PM - Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (leinad) 64. 07:38 PM - Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins (George Swinford) 65. 08:15 PM - Re: A small setback (NYTerminat@aol.com) 66. 08:21 PM - Fw: WW Engine Mount (Richard Vetterli) 67. 08:47 PM - Re: test flight (aprazer) 68. 08:58 PM - Flying 601 in close proximity to Boise Idaho (aprazer) 69. 09:09 PM - Broken 601 canopy (aprazer) 70. 09:36 PM - Re: Broken 601 canopy (JohnDRead@aol.com) 71. 10:08 PM - Re: Forming blocks - a 'right of passage"??? (jhines) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:43 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron Fit That's the way you build it for the hinged version. I assume that's what he is doing. If he wasn't he can now LOL Jeff **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:17 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying a 701 without doors I've flown Brett Hanley's 701 about 20 hrs now with no doors and it's a hoot. Brett's also has round struts so performance should improve some when he puts fairings on them as well as the doors (when he builds them). Nice when it's warm, less so when it's cold. No handling problems but I have no reference WITH doors so take that with the usual grain of salt that you should from any 'net posting LO&SLO John > > > Has anyone flown their 701 without doors? Does wind from a prop make > flying > without doors uncomfortable? Are there concerns about stability with the > doors off? > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:01 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins I do not recall that thread but there is a german company (I think) that makes a automatically variable pitch prop with the change mechanism built into vanes in the spinner/hub...? Recently someone mentioned a propeller manufacture who installed "cooling fins" on their spinners. Does anyone have information on this? Jim Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit From: "ashontz" Yup, I'm making the hinged ailerons. [quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]That's the way you build it for the hinged version. I assume that's what he is doing. If he wasn't he can now LOL Jeff Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape (http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489) in the new year. > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161327#161327 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:49 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit From: "ashontz" Ron Lendon wrote: > Add a shim between the rib flange and the skin, about .040" should do it. Thanks Ron, I may do that. I thought about remaking the rib form and ribs, but this sounds easier. Just wanted to see if anyone else encountered this alignment. May again be due to my router taking off just a little more of the form edge than it should do to the fact that to rout the edge the ball bearing needs to ride the edge of the form and when the form has an 80 degree edge instead of a 90 degree edge it'll take a little extra off, like about an extra mm. I tried to compensate for this by putting a shrink tube spacer on the router bearing to 'build it up' a bit, but it's still taking off a little extra. Just wanted to see if it was ok as is or if I should do something about it. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161330#161330 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:01 AM PST US From: Al Hays Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins Dave, That sounds familiar but I haven't found it yet. However, yesterday on the CorvAircraft list WW had a post regarding the Corvair powered 701 with 601 nosebowl on which Gus put a 3" smaller diameter spinner and additional inlets to feed more cooling air. Makes more sense to me than fins on the spinner unless the fins purpose has nothing to do with cooling. Al Hays 601XL kit-starting fuselage/Corvair STOL701 kit set aside probable Corvair On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:21 AM, David Downey wrote: > I do not recall that thread but there is a german company (I think) > that makes a automatically variable pitch prop with the change > mechanism built into vanes in the spinner/hub...? > > James Sagerser wrote: --> Zenith-List message > posted by: James Sagerser > > Recently someone mentioned a propeller manufacture who installed > "cooling > fins" on their spinners. Does anyone have information on this? Jim > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Forming blocks - a 'right of passage"??? From: "ashontz" Ron Lendon wrote: > The reliefs were made using a 3/4" 24 grit barrel sander in a die grinder, took about an two hours to mark and grind em in. > > YMMV I take it you mean two hours to do all of them on all the forms, right? I did the same thing, I used a little barrel sander in my dremel tool. Took like 5 minutes to do one of the wing rib forms. You don't even need a template, just hold it steady. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161332#161332 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Workshop Tip - air compressor From: "ashontz" Just figured I'd throw this out there, but I've been loving it ever since I spent about 3 hours rigging it up. Well worht the time. I moved my air compressor out of the garage and into my shed right behind the garage and built an insulated box in the shed for the air compressor, ran a 2 inch PVC pipe from the shed back to the garage and ran an outdoor rated power line (not an extension cord) to the shed for the air compressor and routed the air line back through the PVC pipe into the garage. THe power line is on a switch in the garage and I leave the air compressor plugged in and ON in the shed and turn it off and on with the switch in the garage. In the garage I hooked the air line to the oiler/water seperator/regulator I already had and then that gets plugged into a 30' retractable air line I found at Pep Boys for $24. Now everything is nice and quite and a lot more convenient to use my air tools. If you don't have a shed behind your garage you can easily build a small insulated box outdoors. They way I have it rigged, with the compressor on, you stand 30 feet from the shed and you can hardly tell it's on. Same deal inside the garage. Stand right next to the shed right where the compressor is and it still only sounds about as loud as say someone mowing their lawn 5 houses down the street. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161338#161338 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Workshop Tip - air compressor From: "GLJSOJ1" Be sure to drain the water out of the compressor tank. It's amazing how much it accumulates. -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161339#161339 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:23 AM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: DOORS!!!, Don't need no stinkin doors!! Never have flown a 701 with doors. Just excess weight. Just like the slats. But they could be handy if you don't trust the guys around your airport!! If ya live north of Baytown you might need a snowmobile suite about now they tell me. Brett do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:33 AM PST US From: "Rob St Denis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Workshop Tip - air compressor Wouldn't work too well up here, it'd freeze up good! On 1/30/08, GLJSOJ1 wrote: > > > Be sure to drain the water out of the compressor tank. It's amazing how > much it accumulates. > > -------- > 601XL BUILDER > ALMOST DONE > CHESAPEAKE VA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161339#161339 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Phase I Test Flight Testing From: "cookwithgas" Hi guys: For those of you who can fly out of your FAA imposed triangle, what did you do after your 25 or 40 hours? 1. Notify the FAA that you are finished and wait for instruction? 2. Do nothing, just grab a passenger and fly south to some place warm? 3. Fill out a form, hire a notary, get it stamped and hang a copy on your wall? 4. Sell your airplane and start building another? My FAA guy said to notify him when I was getting close to the 40 hours and I'm not sure why. He had me do some other non-standard things also and I'm wondering if this is necessary or if I can just grab a passenger and fly south. Thanks in advance, Scott Laughlin Living in the Great Frozen North 601XL / Corvair Finished & Flying www.cooknwithgas.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161347#161347 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:59 AM PST US From: "Joe Spencer" Subject: Zenith-List: ethanol in autofuel All, SI-912-016 Craig Thanks for the SI link. Looking at the table in Section 5 there are some rather ominous warnings about the possible effects of alcohol, having to do with alcohol competing directly with the oil, and also problems with forming condensation on bearings after shutdown, leading shortly to failure. Sounds nasty. Some of us may eventually not have any choice but to run 10% ethanol due to lack of availibility of anything else....maybe Rotax is being ultra conservative with this(wishful thinking?) Joe engines.com/pdf/dokus/d03830.pdf Page 8 "Fuel with more than 5% alcohol added must not be used." Best regards, Craig Moore A&P Mancelona, MI 701 builder wannabe ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:49 AM PST US From: Aerolitellc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Phase I Test Flight Testing You make a log entry and have fun. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:26 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Phase I Test Flight Testing I just logged the completion of the phase I testing in the aircraft logbook using the prescribed language then signed and dated it with my airman certificate number. No notary and no FAA notification. cookwithgas wrote: > > Hi guys: > > For those of you who can fly out of your FAA imposed triangle, what did you do after your 25 or 40 hours? > > 1. Notify the FAA that you are finished and wait for instruction? > 2. Do nothing, just grab a passenger and fly south to some place warm? > 3. Fill out a form, hire a notary, get it stamped and hang a copy on your wall? > 4. Sell your airplane and start building another? > > My FAA guy said to notify him when I was getting close to the 40 hours and I'm not sure why. He had me do some other non-standard things also and I'm wondering if this is necessary or if I can just grab a passenger and fly south. > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:33 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Workshop Tip - air compressor From: "ashontz" Yeah, I need to do that within the next day or so. Originally I figured I'd mount the thing up in the attic of my garage and add a nipple stem to the drain that came down through the ceiling. Still, I love the setup. Before I only used it when I really needed to and avoided the inconvenience of dragging it out and listening to all that noise. do not archive GLJSOJ1 wrote: > Be sure to drain the water out of the compressor tank. It's amazing how much it accumulates. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161358#161358 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:02 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit From: "ashontz" Now that I think about it, I'm probably just going to remake the ribs. Didn't take that long. Probably be easier than dealing with shims and whatnot. Plus, no point in adding weight when I can just back up, spend an hour and redo them the right way from the word go. How are other people making their forms and putting the 1.8 radius on them. The way I'm doing it is layout the measurements, then cut on the bandsaw with the 10 degree springback angle, then route. But as I've explained before, routing with a bit that has a bearing on it actually cuts a little more than it should making the form ever so slightly undersized. Problem is, the router in the router table isn't any help either because the pointed edge changes dimension as you rout. If the angle was 90 degrees it'd be ok either way, router freehand or in the router table. Is anyone here cutting the form out with 90 degree sides, routing, AND THEN putting the springback angle in? That seems like the way to do it for perfect dimension sake, but then you run the risk of taking too much off the form in any given spot. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161361#161361 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:32 AM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Landing Gear Well, I have put this post out before and believed that I had some parts lined up. After the owner found the complications trying to convert from a tricycle gear to TD, the parts were no longer available. If anyone out there has went with Grove instead of Zeniths spring gear, or if anyone has any landing gear parts or brake parts for XL they want to sell, let me know. I need everything, so if it is just laying around collecting dust, let me know. Larry Husky N667H (Reserved) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:39 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit From: "dfmoeller" Andy, Having been there; done that, I can vouch that the sequence you describe is backwards. I found this out by experience! The correct sequence is this: 1. Cut your forming blocks to rough size first. 2. Sand to the desired dimension second. 3. Put the radius on the block with a router as you describe third. 4. Then, mark the block 10 mm down from the top on the sides and sand the springback angle into the block up to the mark you just made as the final step. The above sequence ensures that the router roller is resting on the dimension that is actually desired. The reverse sequence puts the roller on a somewhat smaller dimension, resulting in a slight smaller finished part than desired. I learned this by viewing the Homebuilt Help video after I made the first set of aileron and flap forming blocks. I wish I'd viewed it before. Doug ashontz wrote: > > How are other people making their forms and putting the 1.8 radius on them. The way I'm doing it is layout the measurements, then cut on the bandsaw with the 10 degree springback angle, then route. But as I've explained before, routing with a bit that has a bearing on it actually cuts a little more than it should making the form ever so slightly undersized. Problem is, the router in the router table isn't any help either because the pointed edge changes dimension as you rout. If the angle was 90 degrees it'd be ok either way, router freehand or in the router table. Is anyone here cutting the form out with 90 degree sides, routing, AND THEN putting the springback angle in? That seems like the way to do it for perfect dimension sake, but then you run the risk of taking too much off the form in any given spot. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161365#161365 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit From: "ashontz" I'm going to try making a spacer collar for router bit bearing to make up the difference and push the router bit back to where it's supposed to be. The procedure you described is overly time consuming and prone to error in my opinion, albeit it does take into account 'the problem'. If anyone is interested I can make them one of these router bearing spacer collars for $10. Seems like sanding after the fact, you run the risk of possibly taking off too much plus it's just overly tedious and time consuming for something that a power tool setup should do for you. dfmoeller wrote: > Andy, > > Having been there; done that, I can vouch that the sequence you describe is backwards. I found this out by experience! The correct sequence is this: > > 1. Cut your forming blocks to rough size first. > 2. Sand to the desired dimension second. > 3. Put the radius on the block with a router as you describe third. > 4. Then, mark the block 10 mm down from the top on the sides and sand the springback angle into the block up to the mark you just made as the final step. > > The above sequence ensures that the router roller is resting on the dimension that is actually desired. The reverse sequence puts the roller on a somewhat smaller dimension, resulting in a slight smaller finished part than desired. I learned this by viewing the Homebuilt Help video after I made the first set of aileron and flap forming blocks. I wish I'd viewed it before. > > Doug > > > > > > > > ashontz wrote: > > > > How are other people making their forms and putting the 1.8 radius on them. The way I'm doing it is layout the measurements, then cut on the bandsaw with the 10 degree springback angle, then route. But as I've explained before, routing with a bit that has a bearing on it actually cuts a little more than it should making the form ever so slightly undersized. Problem is, the router in the router table isn't any help either because the pointed edge changes dimension as you rout. If the angle was 90 degrees it'd be ok either way, router freehand or in the router table. Is anyone here cutting the form out with 90 degree sides, routing, AND THEN putting the springback angle in? That seems like the way to do it for perfect dimension sake, but then you run the risk of taking too much off the form in any given spot. > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161369#161369 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:50 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test flight hi Bill, Nothing wrong with having someone that's flown a Piper PA28 or equal do your first flight if necessary. I'd recommend you rent a Piper and get a CFI to get you comfortable with it and then transition to your 601. The flight characteristics are similar, but the 601 is a bit lighter and more responsive, and just easier to fly. Putting someone in before you isn't going to make it any easier for you to fly it. Perhaps there's someone in PA that has a HDS that would be willing to get you transitioned. Larry McFarland Bill Naumuk wrote: > All- > As I said, I would do all that was LEGAL to ensure my confidence. > I'm not looking for ways to buck the system. > Is there anything illegal with letting another qualified person > make one or more flights, then passing on his findings before the > owner gets in the cockpit? Start the 40 hrs from that point? I'm > interested in the responses from flying posters, but don't want to > drag this thread on. > Over and out. > Bill > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa. > HDS Fuse/Corvair > * > * ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ethanol in autofuel From: "Gig Giacona" One other thing to keep in mind. That 5% number Rotax quotes is for the engine. NOT the entire fuel system. So even if you have a Rotax engine and you know you have 5% Ethanol fuel you still need to make sure everything else in the fuel system can deal with it. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161375#161375 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:52 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XCOM radio and seperate intercom Hi Mark, I have the XCOM760 radio too. If you will contact me off list I will tell you about the issues I have with the radio. Tommy Walker in Alabama N8701 25.5 hrs Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: test flight From: "Gig Giacona" No Bill there's nothing wrong with that. In fact it is a great idea. There is no reason though not to count the time the first pilot flies in the 40 hours. naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: > All- > As I said, I would do all that was LEGAL to ensure my confidence. I'm not looking for ways to buck the system. > Is there anything illegal with letting another qualified person make one or more flights, then passing on his findings before the owner gets in the cockpit? Start the 40 hrs from that point? I'm interested in the responses from flying posters, but don't want to drag this thread on. > Over and out. > Bill > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa. > HDS Fuse/Corvair > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161377#161377 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:25 AM PST US From: ken smith Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XCOM radio and seperate intercom I have am XCOM radio in my flying 601XL and all of the features work just fine. The intercom function performs well. I have the MGL Enigma EFIS coupled to the XCOM, and my passengers report that the voice messages from Enigma are loud and clear. Ken --- Mark Colbeck wrote: > > > I have an XCOM radio with the built in intercom (2 > place for me) and was wondering about anyone else's > experience with it. Should i look at adding the > sigtronics intercom? Is it necessary? In the write > ups and demo dvd it looks like it will work well. > Any thoughts. > > -------- > CH701 > 60% Complete > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161276#161276 > > > > > > > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Forums! > > Admin. > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:24 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ethanol in autofuel E85 has nearly a 30% lower energy density than gasoline and even with the 50 cents a gallon subsidy being paid to alcohol producers, the price of E85 is only slightly lower than regular auto gasoline. So you'll get 30% less range out of your airplane while paying nearly the same price as for auto gas. In other words, your fuel bill for your airplane will be significantly higher. Joe Spencer wrote: > All, > > SI-912-016 > > Craig > Thanks for the SI link. Looking at the table in Section 5 there are > some rather ominous warnings about the possible effects of alcohol, > having to do with alcohol competing directly with the oil, and also > problems with forming condensation on bearings after shutdown, leading > shortly to failure. Sounds nasty. Some of us may eventually not have any > choice but to run 10% ethanol due to lack of availibility of anything > else....maybe Rotax is being ultra conservative with this(wishful thinking?) > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:43 AM PST US From: "Randy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XCOM radio and seperate intercom Mark & Steve, I have an XCOM in my 601xl and the intercom works great. Randy 601xl 100hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Colbeck" Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:13 PM Subject: Zenith-List: XCOM radio and seperate intercom > > > I have an XCOM radio with the built in intercom (2 place for me) and was > wondering about anyone else's experience with it. Should i look at adding > the sigtronics intercom? Is it necessary? In the write ups and demo dvd it > looks like it will work well. Any thoughts. > > -------- > CH701 > 60% Complete > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161276#161276 > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:54 AM PST US From: "Jim McBurney" Subject: Zenith-List: A small setback Greetings, all, I was dealt a small setback to my CH-801 project Monday morning. See attached link for the newspaper writup on it. http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/013008/met_185460.shtml I think the reporter did me a big favor writing it as she did. They didn't post the photo of the plane, but it was on page 1, above the fold! Email me if you want to see it. Jim CH-801 DeltaHawk diesel Augusta GA 90% done, 90% left ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:07 AM PST US From: Al Hays Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ethanol in autogas Larry, I have to agree that ethanol is not the best answer (at least it's better than methanol) and I think having government subsidies and congressional mandates for its continued production from corn is reprehensible. Nevertheless, I intend to make my engine and fuel system capable of ingesting it when unavoidable. The February issue of Popular Mechanics has an excellent Op-Ed on page 54 titled "The Ethanol Fallacy". If a copy isn't handy, it is on the web at: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4237539.html Al Hays Do not archive On Jan 29, 2008, at 11:18 AM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > Dennis, > In addition to these problems, which are true enough, it takes 3 > gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol and the water tables > are going down where these processing > plants are located. The pollution from ethanol is a more serious > problem than gasoline and the only reason we're doing this is, as > you say, government support. > I won't buy an E85 vehicle or use that product and we've quit > buying beef, where possible, as a matter of principle. > Larry McFarland > do not archive > > Dennis Shoup wrote: >> I recall reading a year ago that Rotax prohibits the use of >> ethanol bearing fuel. Ethanol goes back to the 80's it when was >> called gasohol and car many car manufacturers warned against using >> it because of deterioration of engine seals and rubber parts. >> Ethanol results in poorer fuel consumption according to >> several automotive publications tests. For us that means reduced >> range and endurance since larger fuel tanks and greater weight >> aren't a very good choice for us. Those same reports also mention >> the cost of ethanol production being higher than gasoline. It is >> only profitable because of Federal subsidies. The car >> manufacturers also receive Federal subsidies for producing >> alternate fuel vehicles and ethanol is the only immediately >> available alternate. Farmers enjoy higher corn prices as well. >> The consumer pays for all of the subsidies as well as higher >> prices for corn and beef which is fed with more expensive corn. >> The government is taking care of us again. >> Dennis >> >> >> On Jan 29, 2008 9:44 AM, Joe Spencer > > wrote: >> >> Anybody know how the 912s likes autofuel with ethanol in it? For >> all the info that Rotax sends out on their engines I don't >> remember seeing anything on this subject from them. Anyody got a >> link or info? >> Thx Joe >> Sad but informative. Those of us using auto fuel in our >> airplane >> motors >> now have to consider many additional problems that alcohol >> causes and >> it's not even good for cars! This was published today in the >> Atlanta >> Journal-Constitution and written by the CEO of a petroleum >> distributor >> in Atlanta. Who is pushing ethanol? It's apparently not petroleum >> companies. >> Ron >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:16 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Phase I Test Flight Testing Hi Scott, In your aircraft log, place an entry that says: I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous characteristics or design features, and is safe for operation. This aircraft operating data has been demonstrated during the flight testing: Speeds Vso =__ Vx = __, Vy = __, and the weight = ____, and CG location = __ in. at which they were obtained. Signed ___________________ Date ______ That's just about it. Then do some serious destination flight planning. Congratulations Scott, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com cookwithgas wrote: > > Hi guys: > > For those of you who can fly out of your FAA imposed triangle, what did you do after your 25 or 40 hours? > > 1. Notify the FAA that you are finished and wait for instruction? > 2. Do nothing, just grab a passenger and fly south to some place warm? > 3. Fill out a form, hire a notary, get it stamped and hang a copy on your wall? > 4. Sell your airplane and start building another? > > My FAA guy said to notify him when I was getting close to the 40 hours and I'm not sure why. He had me do some other non-standard things also and I'm wondering if this is necessary or if I can just grab a passenger and fly south. > > Thanks in advance, > > Scott Laughlin > Living in the Great Frozen North > 601XL / Corvair Finished & Flying > www.cooknwithgas.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161347#161347 > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A small setback From: "billmileski" Jim, So sorry. Once in awhile we are painfully reminded of the impact that anger, hate, and ignorance can have, even when (hopefully) restricted to a small fraction of us. Don't be discouraged (and it sounds like you won't be -- congrats) and best of luck. I have a feeling my sentiments are shared by a whole lot of people that will hear of your story. Bill Mileski Ledyard, CT do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161390#161390 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:23 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit I do. Here is the order that I'm following for making my blocks: - Cut the block slightly oversize to the cutting line with a jigsaw. - Sand down to cutting line with a bench sander with the bed at 90 degrees. - Round out the edge for proper bending radius using a moto-tool and with a 1/8 routing bit. There is no reduction in size. - Create the 11 degrees spring back with the bench sander with the bed positioned at 11 degrees. Here I have to be careful because there is the possibility to over-sand but it is not difficult get it right. - Create the relief for the crimps using a regular router with a 45 degree trimming bit. William Dominguez Zodiac 601 XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Now that I think about it, I'm probably just going to remake the ribs. Didn't take that long. Probably be easier than dealing with shims and whatnot. Plus, no point in adding weight when I can just back up, spend an hour and redo them the right way from the word go. How are other people making their forms and putting the 1.8 radius on them. The way I'm doing it is layout the measurements, then cut on the bandsaw with the 10 degree springback angle, then route. But as I've explained before, routing with a bit that has a bearing on it actually cuts a little more than it should making the form ever so slightly undersized. Problem is, the router in the router table isn't any help either because the pointed edge changes dimension as you rout. If the angle was 90 degrees it'd be ok either way, router freehand or in the router table. Is anyone here cutting the form out with 90 degree sides, routing, AND THEN putting the springback angle in? That seems like the way to do it for perfect dimension sake, but then you run the risk of taking too much off the form in any given spot. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161361#161361 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:53 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A small setback You have my support and my sympathy, Jim. Forge on. Dred Do Not Archive ---- Jim McBurney wrote: > > Greetings, all, > > I was dealt a small setback to my CH-801 project Monday morning. See > attached link for the newspaper writup on it. > http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/013008/met_185460.shtml > I think the reporter did me a big favor writing it as she did. They didn't > post the photo of the plane, but it was on page 1, above the fold! Email me > if you want to see it. > > Jim > CH-801 > DeltaHawk diesel > Augusta GA > 90% done, 90% left > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:13 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit I cut out the forms (I use oak)while right and left are bolted together on the bandsaw, close to the line, next is the disc sander with the table at O degrees, sand to the line, separate the forms, blacken the edges with spray paint or markalot, set the disc sander table to 10 degrees or your favorite # and sand carefully until you have a uniform band of black remaining on the edge, THEN hand sand the edge that forms the radius , leaving 1/8"-3/16" of black band all around the form. Built a few dozen form blocks using this method, try some scrap first. MANY other ways to do it as well. John Is anyone here cutting the form out with 90 degree sides, routing, AND THEN putting the springback angle in? That seems like the way to do it for perfect dimension sake, but then you run the risk of taking too much off the form in any given spot. > > -------- > Andy Shontz ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:51 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A small setback You have my support and my sympathy, Jim. Forge on. Dred Do Not Archive ---- Jim McBurney wrote: > > Greetings, all, > > I was dealt a small setback to my CH-801 project Monday morning. See > attached link for the newspaper writup on it. > http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/013008/met_185460.shtml > I think the reporter did me a big favor writing it as she did. They didn't > post the photo of the plane, but it was on page 1, above the fold! Email me > if you want to see it. > > Jim > CH-801 > DeltaHawk diesel > Augusta GA > 90% done, 90% left > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:43 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ethanol in autofuel I have patiently read the posts on this thread and remained silent but now feel compelled to vioce my opinion (since everyone else has). The bottom line is that ethanol is not a good choice for aviation fuel / fuel additive for many reasons that have been listed, discussed and even refuted by some. It has been touted as an answer to fossil fuel independence. Wrong. We are nowhere near ready to produce enough to really matter. But hey, racecars love the stuff, right? Yeah if you accept the short engine life of racecars and the "who cares" issue about how much fuel they need to carry. But there were those Brazillian cropduster engines that lasted so long and looked so good at overhaul. Really? Anecdotal at best. Fictional at worst. Even if that's true, would those engines not have produced more power at a lower gross weight on 95 or 100 octane gasoline? Some have praised ethanol as being red white and blue... as American as Chevy and apple pie. Okay, granted we can make it here in the USA. We can also drill for more oil and build more refineries right here in the good old USA too. Why is that not American? It might even be a better short term idea. The long term idea is more likely to be biodiesel. That can be made from American corn in American plants too and it's a far superior fuel to ethanol. The more trucks and cars that burn biodiesel, the more 95 - 100 octane we have left over for airplanes until the electric, jet, and/or diesel small aircraft engines come of age. How about this; let's strive to utilize the ethanol and biodiesel in vehicles other than airplanes to ease the demand for the gasoline we should be using as aviation fuel? Dred ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A small setback From: "dgardea(at)gmail.com" Hello Jim, I was saddened by the attack, but was encouraged by your resolve as I read the article you shared. I had the pleasure of meeting you a couple years back at Zenith for a rudder workshop and was intrigued then both by your role in building planes for missionaries and also your use of the DeltaHawk diesel. I look forward to hearing more about both on the list as you get closer to completion. Regards, Dave Gardea -------- Dave Gardea 601XL - Corvair wings done - working on corvair while waiting for fuselage kit http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161401#161401 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A small setback From: "PatrickW" I'm just shaking my head on this one. Just when you think you've seen it all... A pink swastika? And a peace sign? WTF? :( Well, if nothing else I'd bet this gives you even more determination. And you'll have the only Zenith around with actual bullet holes. - Pat Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161402#161402 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:00 AM PST US From: "THOMAS SMALL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test flight > Perhaps > there's someone in PA that has a HDS that would be willing to get you > transitioned. All Bill (and Lynn too) have to do is get the 125 or so miles to the southeast and show up in Carlisle, PA. The subs and pizza are on them, the HDS on me. CAVU Jeff Small in southcentral PA where winds are 30 gusting to 40+ do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:49 AM PST US From: Aerolitellc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit Andy if you have a router table it can be done using the proper bits and setting your table at the proper angles and if your table doesn't tilt you can make a angled template to run the form on. I have to agree with Doug and the steps he outlined. Or you could just buy a mill. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:12 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ethanol in autogas Al, The article is accurate, but leaves out the fact that water used in production is wasted and not getting back into the soil. The binder that allows alcohol to blend with gasoline and other mixes is the culprit which eats aluminum, resins and other materials like cork and synthetic rubber. I'm not concerned in the long run because ethanol will crumble of its own weight when the government drops its subsidy. Batteries have made stunning progress the last 6 months which will have GM rethinking the expensive battery they've contracted for the Volt. Three companies have revolutionized battery technology to the point that 40 miles will be unacceptable and 200 will be the the new milestone for the next run of electric cars. Thermoelectric generators will replace the alternator and Butanol will eventually replace ethanol as a better product that's cheaper to produce, is stable, is interchangeable and has equal performance properties to gasoline. Good source for latest developments is the Technology Review. see link, http://www.technologyreview.com/index.aspx Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com (Subaru and 87 octane / 10% mandated ethanol) Al Hays wrote: > > > Larry, > I have to agree that ethanol is not the best answer (at least it's > better than methanol) and I think having government subsidies and > congressional mandates for its continued production from corn is > reprehensible. Nevertheless, I intend to make my engine and fuel > system capable of ingesting it when unavoidable. The February issue > of Popular Mechanics has an excellent Op-Ed on page 54 titled "The > Ethanol Fallacy". If a copy isn't handy, it is on the web at: > http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4237539.html > Al Hays > Do not archive > On Jan 29, 2008, at 11:18 AM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > >> >> >> Dennis, >> In addition to these problems, which are true enough, it takes 3 >> gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol and the water tables >> are going down where these processing >> plants are located. The pollution from ethanol is a more serious >> problem than gasoline and the only reason we're doing this is, as you >> say, government support. >> I won't buy an E85 vehicle or use that product and we've quit buying >> beef, where possible, as a matter of principle. >> Larry McFarland >> do not archive >> >> Dennis Shoup wrote: >>> I recall reading a year ago that Rotax prohibits the use of >>> ethanol bearing fuel. Ethanol goes back to the 80's it when was >>> called gasohol and car many car manufacturers warned against using >>> it because of deterioration of engine seals and rubber parts. >>> Ethanol results in poorer fuel consumption according to several >>> automotive publications tests. For us that means reduced range and >>> endurance since larger fuel tanks and greater weight aren't a very >>> good choice for us. Those same reports also mention the cost of >>> ethanol production being higher than gasoline. It is only >>> profitable because of Federal subsidies. The car manufacturers also >>> receive Federal subsidies for producing alternate fuel vehicles and >>> ethanol is the only immediately available alternate. Farmers enjoy >>> higher corn prices as well. The consumer pays for all of the >>> subsidies as well as higher prices for corn and beef which is fed >>> with more expensive corn. >>> The government is taking care of us again. >>> Dennis > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:28 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Request for Zenith Builders at SunNFun 08 Fellow Zenith Builder's, This request is somewhat beyond the normal requests that we see here. I hope you will bear with me. For those Zenith builders going to SunNFun 2008 at Lakeland, FL I have a special request. To get directly to the point, those of us who work as volunteers in the Basic Sheet Metal Workshop plan to construct a Zenith 701 during the six days of the event. As background, let me tell you that this airplane will be built from a Zenith kit and is being purchased by one of our workshop members. When the aircraft is completed it will be donated to a charity. Actually it will be called Angel-1 and be given to a Missionary organization. Zenith is selling us the kit but will not participate in the construction. No other company will participate except for some tool companies who will provide some metal working tools. It will be built just by the volunteers in our workshop and the folks who come to our shop to learn basic metal skills. Our plan is to build as much as we can get done in the six days and then complete it and fly it at the end of SunNFun 2009. My request of you folks is that we would like you experienced builders of Zenith aircraft to act as volunteer supervisors / guides for the volunteers working on the various parts. Of course 701 experience would be best, but you 601, 640 and 801 builders would do fine, I'm sure. We would only ask for a few hours a day for a day or two from each of you to help us move this project along. Our regular workshop volunteers will still run the folks through our shop and then send them on to work on the 701. We plan to begin work on the aft fuselage, one wing and the tail feathers at the same time. If time allows, we will start on the second wing and the forward fuselage. This work will be done in a air conditioned room which is part of the Basic Sheet Metal Workshop. As for tools, the only tool we would ask you to bring if possible is your favorite hand or pneumatic Avex Rivet puller, including the concave heads for the rivet pullers. We plan to have the necessary tables in place. I urge you to give this some thought. I think you will enjoy helping with this worthy project and you will be helping prospective Zenith aircraft builders who will no doubt come by to learn. If you are interested in helping us with this project, please send your questions and comments directly to me at planejim@bellsouth.net . I'll be glad to respond with details. By the way, I am the Co-Chairman of the Basic Sheet Metal Workshop at SunNFun as well as a Zenith 601HD builder. I know there are some great builders on this site who would be a big help with our project. Please help if you can. Thanks. Do not archive Jim Hoak - Co-Chairman Basic Sheet Metal Workshop SunNFun 2008 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:52 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: test flight A minimum number of hours must be flown off on the airplane by any pilot to complete the phase I testing. It's not necessary for all the hours to be flown off by the same pilot. Gig Giacona wrote: > > No Bill there's nothing wrong with that. In fact it is a great idea. There is no reason though not to count the time the first pilot flies in the 40 hours. > > > > naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: >> All- >> As I said, I would do all that was LEGAL to ensure my confidence. I'm not looking for ways to buck the system. >> Is there anything illegal with letting another qualified person make one or more flights, then passing on his findings before the owner gets in the cockpit? Start the 40 hrs from that point? I'm interested in the responses from flying posters, but don't want to drag this thread on. >> Over and out. >> Bill -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing From: "cookwithgas" Thanks Larry: Your website and project encouraged me tremendously while I was building. Thanks for all the help, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair Finished & Flying www.cooknwithgas.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161421#161421 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:33 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins As long ago as WW2 a Czech company, Avia, made a constant-speed (or maybe just controllable) prop which had vanes on the spinner. I believe the spinner rotated in the airstream, driving a hydraulic pump. I seem to remember that Hartzell experimented with such a device. Anyone out there with more knowlege about this? George Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hays" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:09 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins > > Dave, > > That sounds familiar but I haven't found it yet. However, yesterday > on the CorvAircraft list WW had a post regarding the Corvair powered > 701 with 601 nosebowl on which Gus put a 3" smaller diameter spinner > and additional inlets to feed more cooling air. Makes more sense to > me than fins on the spinner unless the fins purpose has nothing to do > with cooling. > > Al Hays > 601XL kit-starting fuselage/Corvair > STOL701 kit set aside probable Corvair > > On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:21 AM, David Downey wrote: > > > I do not recall that thread but there is a german company (I think) > > that makes a automatically variable pitch prop with the change > > mechanism built into vanes in the spinner/hub...? > > > > James Sagerser wrote: --> Zenith-List message > > posted by: James Sagerser > > > > Recently someone mentioned a propeller manufacture who installed > > "cooling > > fins" on their spinners. Does anyone have information on this? Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Downey > > Harleysville (SE) PA > > 100 HP Corvair > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > -- 1/29/2008 9:51 AM > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:09 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Forming blocks - a 'right of passage"??? From: "kmccune" I like this idea! do not archive [quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]I've made my relief cuts with the router and a 45 degree trimming bit. It is a painless and quick operation. However, If you make them with your router and you use them as mold to make your crimps in the manner shown in Mark's scratch building DVD, they might come out too wide. I use the ZAC crimping tool for this and the results are great. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom When I first decided to switch to scratch building, I thought it would be easy to find a builder willing to pass on his old forming block when finished with them. I was surprised when my post last year got no responses offering to sell old forming blocks. Now I see > [b] -------- Kevin N701DZ Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161433#161433 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit From: "Jugle" Hi Andy, ashontz wrote: > > How are other people making their forms and putting the 1.8 radius on them. Yep, I also did it in reverse to the way you describe- -Rough cut the form -Sand it to final dimensions on the disc sander at 90 degrees -Rout the 1/8" round -Run a marking gauge or pencil line right around the edge of the round -Angle the sander table to 10 degrees, and carefully sand to the line... this is tricky as you have to stand right over the table to see, in good light, but if you take your time it works okay. If I still had access to a spindle moulder, I would have used a sleeve with 10 degree blades in it to cut the springback angle. Glenn -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- just started. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161434#161434 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:43 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit I think I made three sets of ribs for ailerons (& one new aileron too), the last set after the skins were bent. I did not use form blocks but only cut out a pattern for tracing and bent them on the brake and finished with some home made hand forming pliers(cheap harbor freight pliers with some 1/8" plate brazed on). You kit guys really miss out on a lot of fun. I made 3 ailerons, 2 rudders, 3 wing fuel tanks, and lots of small parts twice. Educational project? You bet. I'm sure I made FAA happy in that regard! do not archive Aaron G. > Now that I think about it, I'm probably just going to remake the ribs. > Didn't take that long. Probably be easier than dealing with shims and > whatnot. Plus, no point in adding weight when I can just back up, spend an > hour and redo them the right way from the word go. > How are other people making their forms and putting the 1.8 radius on > them. ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:45 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A small setback From: "kmccune" I am sorry that you had to endure this type of treatment and for you obvious setback. I also find my self, admiring your obvious character. Now I too, am looking forward to seeing a diesel fly ! Kevin McCune -------- Kevin N701DZ Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161437#161437 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:36 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test flight Jeff- Up here by the lake (Erie) the poor cart retrievers at Wal-Mart start in the parking lot and are blown 2 blocks away. We don't have a WIND chill factor, we have a GALE chill factor. You also take small, careful steps to keep from falling on the ice. I believe there's global warming, just not here. Thanks for the offer. Will contact you off-list. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "THOMAS SMALL" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:39 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test flight > > >> Perhaps >> there's someone in PA that has a HDS that would be willing to get you >> transitioned. > > All Bill (and Lynn too) have to do is get the 125 or so miles to the > southeast and show up in Carlisle, PA. > > The subs and pizza are on them, the HDS on me. > > CAVU Jeff Small in southcentral PA where winds are 30 gusting to 40+ > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:31 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Address Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address? Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:55 PM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ethanol in autofuel I feel bad adding my two cents because the topic is kind of an off list issue. But on behalf of the human cost of ethanol. In general the arguments for including Ethanol in any auto-fuel are specious. I find it interesting that the same people advocating the idea that we are over farming our lands and depleting our soil when we grow grains to feed people and livestock, support the idea of feeding it to our automobiles. The worldwide cost of corn has risen dramatically along with sympathetic upward movement for other grains. This will give the United States another black eye on the international scene when third world children starve because they can no longer afford the new grain prices. It takes 450 lbs of corn plus fossil fuels to grow and harvest enough corn to create 25 gallons of ethanol. That is enough to feed a person for a year. Ethanol is a knee-jerk political offering. If you want to solve this problem you will need to stick closer to good science and distance yourself from the line of new corn constituencies that are being formed. In the long view, I want to see success creating the first large scale Fusion Reactor coupled to a Hydrogen economy. (Unlimited, clean power) I am not up to date but the French were selected to try this as a multinational $19 billion project. In the short run this would work with fission reactors as well. Gary Ray DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:47 PM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins On another list I've been watching, (although not closely following) a very "heated" (pun intended) arguement about cooling and such. It occured to me that one solution to all this was of course to simply mount a very large fan to the front of the motor....... ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Swinford" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins > > As long ago as WW2 a Czech company, Avia, made a constant-speed (or maybe ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:35 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address It's zenithairss@gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Address Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address? Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 1/30/2008 8:51 PM ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:26 PM PST US From: ken smith Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address try this zenithairss@gmail.com --- Bill Naumuk wrote: > Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address? > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa. > HDS Fuse/Corvair Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:15 PM PST US From: "Carl" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lift sling for the CH-701 Les. Thanks for the info. Ref your question on gear spring, I use the original ZAC gear spring with 950 amphib floats. In my humble opinion this configuration is superior to some new floats I have seen for the following reason: 1. Config change from floats to wheel/skis and back is simple using the same spring. 2. Retain nose wheel steering. 3. Low centre of gravity for better cross-wind capability on land or water.. 4. Spring reduces shock to fuselage during TO/landing on land or choppy water. 5. Lower access for entry/exit. 6. One of the lightest amphib gears for the 701. My floats weigh less than 60# each and that is with steel wheels and hyd brakes, water rudder and air actuator. The most important feature for those of us that are fallible, if you forget to retract the wheels and land on water the a/c will very likely remain upright. If for some reason you plan a water landing with the gear down and do it as per ZAC procedure, the gear will not cause an upset and the landing is very near normal. It is possible that the lower config will accelerate prop erosion. in my case with a WarpDride three bade and 500 hrs on the water erosion has been insignificant. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Goldner To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lift sling for the CH-701 Carl, Paul Reinders, a very experienced (35,000 hour) Alaskan pilot who has a 701 ski/float plane, attached tangs to the plane for picking it up to change skis and floats. The tangs need to be placed facing upward and running parallel with the air flow on both forward wing root attachment points at the place where the wing is bolted to the fus. My 701 does not have any main gear spring (although the gear probably has some spring in it). Does your 701 have some new or specially designed gear? Regards, Les ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:11 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Lift sling for the CH-701 I would like to use a sling to lift my a/c to removal and inspect the main gear spring. I have seen slings for other high wing a/c that attach to the fuselage wing attach point and they look very functional. Has anyone done this? Has Chris H approved lifting the 701 this way? Any help appreciated. Please reply on this list. Carl href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:28 PM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: Painting the cabin I am working on the cabin floor and wing center section. I am assuming that now (or very soon) would be the best time to pain the interior of the cockpit. I have a pretty good idea of my color choices but my question is more of a "how-to". how do I prep, prime and paint the cockpit? I am using the cortec primer that came with the kit (instead of Zinc Chromate) so I assume the painting system is a personal choice (such as Randolph, poly-tone, etc.) Prep with 3M pads then clean with MEK, but beyond that.....what? Do I use a premixed system such as polytone? or enamel with a reducer (whatever the hell that is), such as randolph? Any suggestions? Brad Cohen XL/TD slow-build kit ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:36 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address Shirley Swearingen > zenithairss@gmail.com do not archive --- Bill Naumuk wrote: > Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address? > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa. > HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:29 PM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address shirley@zenithair.com Do not archive Bill Naumuk wrote: > Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address? > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa. > HDS Fuse/Corvair > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:43 PM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: By The Way how do all of y'all keep your plane parts so freaking clean? it seems like every picture of every aileron, flap and wingtip I see on here has pristine surfaces, to the point where they look like they just came out of ZAC; whereas mine are covered with minute scratches, stains from drops of sweat and a few drops of blood (o.k., well maybe more than a few!) and the ever present thin coat of garage dust???? Just an observation Brad ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Fit From: "Ron Lendon" The other way to make the skin is use the ribs for the measurements when making the bends. Come on it's only an air deflector :) -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161484#161484 ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:02 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address Zenithairss@gmail.com Try this Bill . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Address Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address? Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing From: "leinad" Scott, First I wanted to congratulate you. Great job! As to your question. I guess I'm confused by the responses, and it's probably my misconception. I thought that before you finished your X number of hours of phase 1 testing, the FAA issued a conditional airworthiness certificate, that limited you to flight testing only. And it was only after completion that they issued a normal airworthiness certificate. I assumed the limitations on the conditional certificate would stipulate NO passengers. I haven't finished building, so I ask, Is that incorrect? Dan cookwithgas wrote: > Hi guys: > > For those of you who can fly out of your FAA imposed triangle, what did you do after your 25 or 40 hours? > > 1. Notify the FAA that you are finished and wait for instruction? > 2. Do nothing, just grab a passenger and fly south to some place warm? > 3. Fill out a form, hire a notary, get it stamped and hang a copy on your wall? > 4. Sell your airplane and start building another? > > My FAA guy said to notify him when I was getting close to the 40 hours and I'm not sure why. He had me do some other non-standard things also and I'm wondering if this is necessary or if I can just grab a passenger and fly south. > > Thanks in advance, > > Scott Laughlin > Living in the Great Frozen North > 601XL / Corvair Finished & Flying > www.cooknwithgas.com -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161492#161492 ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:40 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins Back again to those thrilling days of yesteryear, in this case WW2: The Fw190 was powered by a BMW 801 air-cooled radial. It had a cooling fan just behind the propeller, geared to turn at 3.17 times propeller speed. In aviation, it's hard to come up with an idea that hasn't already been tried by someone, sometime. George do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave G." Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins > > On another list I've been watching, (although not closely following) a very > "heated" (pun intended) arguement about cooling and such. It occured to me > that one solution to all this was of course to simply mount a very large fan > to the front of the motor....... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Swinford" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:14 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins > > > > > > As long ago as WW2 a Czech company, Avia, made a constant-speed (or maybe > > > -- 1/30/2008 9:29 AM > > ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:03 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A small setback Jim, I 'd be interested in seeing the photo. What organization do you work with? I have been working with ABWE on various construction projects. The Lord has His reasons for this. Where is the 801 slated for? God Bless Bob Spudis **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:43 PM PST US From: Richard Vetterli Subject: Zenith-List: Fwd: WW Engine Mount --- Richard Vetterli wrote: > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:20:16 -0800 (PST) > From: Richard Vetterli > Subject: WW Engine Mount > To: corvaircraft@mylist.net > > The postman delivered my WW engine mount today and > it > fits like a glove on my 601 fuselage. Build your > firewall and front fuselage just like the Zenith > plans > show and WW's mount will just slip right on. If > things work out well, I might get to hang my engine > this week, exciting. > > > Rich Vetterli > Pleasanton, CA > CH601XL under construction > Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: test flight From: "aprazer" Greetings from Idaho I don't know if this has been discussed before, but the second sentence of paragraph 6 of the Experimental Operating Limitations states "Flight test operations will only be conducted under VFR conditions, with the pilot as the sole occupant of the aircraft." This limitation (part of 22 -- which is carried in your aircraft) should alleviate some of the confusion on this thread about passengers, CFIs, etc... Mack N990MK Just received Airworthiness Certificate! -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161505#161505 ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Flying 601 in close proximity to Boise Idaho From: "aprazer" Ladies and Gents; Due to insurance requirements, I am wondering if there is anyone with a flying 601 within 200+/- miles of Boise Idaho that would be willing to allow my 7000 hour test pilot a checkout? I would be forever grateful! Mack N990MK Newly certificated -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161508#161508 ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Broken 601 canopy From: "aprazer" Ladies and Gents; Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Well, just a few hours ago, I managed to break a small triangular (1 x 3 inch) section out of the bubble of my newly certificated 601XL -- where it meets the glare shield. I can't afford a new bubble, in fact I can't afford to inquire about the cost of a new bubble. I've seen antique dishes repaired in such a manner that the repair is barely noticeable. Any ideas or solutions on how to repair this horrible mistake? I'll be forever grateful! Mack N990MK -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161509#161509 ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:08 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Broken 601 canopy Hello Mac: Dry your tears all is not lost. If the bubble is made from polycarbonate AKA Lexan, then almost any solvent, MEK works very well, can be used to "weld" the broken part back onto the canopy. John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 In a message dated 1/30/2008 10:10:44 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, aprazer@cableone.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "aprazer" Ladies and Gents; Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Well, just a few hours ago, I managed to break a small triangular (1 x 3 inch) section out of the bubble of my newly certificated 601XL -- where it meets the glare shield. I can't afford a new bubble, in fact I can't afford to inquire about the cost of a new bubble. I've seen antique dishes repaired in such a manner that the repair is barely noticeable. Any ideas or solutions on how to repair this horrible mistake? I'll be forever grateful! Mack N990MK -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161509#161509 **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Forming blocks - a 'right of passage"??? From: "jhines" Guys, Here is a picture of my jig to make the relief cuts. John Hines www.johnsplane.com -------- John Hines Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161513#161513 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribjig3_213.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribjig1_318.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.