Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:11 AM - Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins (alex_01)
2. 03:47 AM - Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins (David Downey)
3. 05:32 AM - Re: Broken 601 canopy (GLJSOJ1)
4. 05:45 AM - Re: Painting the cabin (GLJSOJ1)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Painting the cabin ()
6. 06:46 AM - Re: Broken 601 canopy (Aaron Gustafson)
7. 06:54 AM - Re: By The Way (Gig Giacona)
8. 06:57 AM - Re: Broken 601 canopy (steve)
9. 07:04 AM - Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (Gig Giacona)
10. 07:25 AM - Re: Painting the cabin (n85ae)
11. 07:33 AM - Re: Painting the cabin (n85ae)
12. 07:51 AM - Re: A small setback (Scott Thatcher)
13. 09:49 AM - Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins (David Downey)
14. 09:51 AM - Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (japhillipsga@aol.com)
15. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Aileron Fit (David Downey)
16. 09:57 AM - Re: Flying 601 in close proximity to Boise Idaho (japhillipsga@aol.com)
17. 10:14 AM - Re: Painting the cabin (ROBERT SCEPPA)
18. 10:22 AM - Re: Request for Zenith Builders at SunNFun 08 (japhillipsga@aol.com)
19. 10:41 AM - Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Maarten Versteeg)
20. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Painting the cabin (Elden Jacobson)
21. 10:51 AM - Re: Flying 601 in close proximity to Boise Idaho (aprazer)
22. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (steve)
23. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Painting the cabin ()
24. 11:08 AM - Re: Lift sling for the CH-701 (David Barth)
25. 11:36 AM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Juan Vega)
26. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (Juan Vega)
27. 11:53 AM - Throttle Cable Friction (DaveG601XL)
28. 12:13 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack ()
29. 12:30 PM - Re: Lift sling for the CH-701 (Bill Berle)
30. 12:44 PM - Re: Broken 601 canopy (steve)
31. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (Bryan Martin)
32. 12:47 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Bill Berle)
33. 01:09 PM - Re: Broken 601 canopy (Bryan Martin)
34. 01:16 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (DaveG601XL)
35. 01:18 PM - Re: Throttle Cable Friction (Bill Berle)
36. 02:20 PM - Corvair parts and services (william Clapp)
37. 02:43 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (n801bh@netzero.com)
38. 02:46 PM - Rib flange repair (thesumak@aol.com)
39. 03:01 PM - Re: Rib flange repair (Edward Moody II)
40. 03:54 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Juan Vega)
41. 04:19 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Dan Lykowski)
42. 04:49 PM - Cabin access step - 601XL (Tim Juhl)
43. 04:54 PM - Re: Rib flange repair (Art Gibeaut)
44. 05:11 PM - Re: Rib flange repair (LarryMcFarland)
45. 05:23 PM - Re: Address (Bill Naumuk)
46. 05:24 PM - Re: Address (Bill Naumuk)
47. 05:24 PM - Fw: Address (Bill Naumuk)
48. 05:32 PM - Re: Address (Bill Naumuk)
49. 05:33 PM - Re: Address (Bill Naumuk)
50. 05:35 PM - Re: Address (Bill Naumuk)
51. 05:42 PM - Re: By The Way (Bill Naumuk)
52. 05:43 PM - Re: Cabin access step - 601XL (Jeff)
53. 06:16 PM - 601 Wheel Pants (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
54. 06:20 PM - Rib flange repair (thesumak@aol.com)
55. 06:28 PM - Re: Cabin access step - 601XL (Edward Moody II)
56. 07:16 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Tim Shankland)
57. 07:26 PM - AOA system eye candy (Edward Moody II)
58. 07:44 PM - Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing (leinad)
59. 07:52 PM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Ron Lendon)
60. 08:19 PM - want to buy completed ch 801, partnership OK (cglawson)
61. 09:06 PM - Re: AOA system eye candy (n801bh@netzero.com)
62. 09:52 PM - Re: Cabin access step - 601XL (chris Sinfield)
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins |
please have a look here
http://www.silence-aircraft.de/index.html
under propeller
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161522#161522
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop2_159.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_120.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins |
http://www.v-prop.com/
Also the Zlin trainer has had a vane driven automatic prop for years. model 526?
Dave,
That sounds familiar but I haven't found it yet. However, yesterday
on the CorvAircraft list WW had a post regarding the Corvair powered
701 with 601 nosebowl on which Gus put a 3" smaller diameter spinner
and additional inlets to feed more cooling air. Makes more sense to
me than fins on the spinner unless the fins purpose has nothing to do
with cooling.
Al Hays
601XL kit-starting fuselage/Corvair
STOL701 kit set aside probable Corvair
On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:21 AM, David Downey wrote:
> I do not recall that thread but there is a german company (I think)
> that makes a automatically variable pitch prop with the change
> mechanism built into vanes in the spinner/hub...?
>
> James Sagerser wrote: --> Zenith-List message
> posted by: James Sagerser
>
> Recently someone mentioned a propeller manufacture who installed
> "cooling
> fins" on their spinners. Does anyone have information on this? Jim
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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| Subject: | Re: Broken 601 canopy |
There is a recent issue of Sport Aviation that explains how to fix a plastic canopy.
I think it was this past summer. The author fixed a WWII bomber bubble,
and photos showed a perfect patch that was not easily visible.
--------
601XL BUILDER
ALMOST DONE
CHESAPEAKE VA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161533#161533
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| Subject: | Re: Painting the cabin |
Hi Brad
I used Zinc Chromate on mine, cleaned it with Lacquer thinner and used a scotch
bright pad to rough it up. Every place that I used this approach the paint (Krylon
Sandstone Texture) is staying on fine. Any place where I didn't get the
zinc on good, it rubs right off. I did the parts before I riveted it together
for the most part, but some was done after it was all done.
--------
601XL BUILDER
ALMOST DONE
CHESAPEAKE VA
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| Subject: | Re: Painting the cabin |
Likewise I elected to clean, prime, and paint every interior surface when it was
completely ready to rivet in place so that the subsequent assembly would be
done with parts that needed no further painting. It is much easier to do a good
job on a piece of metal lying on a sawhorse rather than after it is rivetted
inside a confined cabin.
I used laquer thinner to clean the surface, then primed with Rustoleum Automotive
self etching primer from rattle cans. The top coat is the compatible Rustoleum
Automotive color coat also from rattle cans. No sctochbrite scuffing and so
far very good adhesion. I figure if the microscopic grip of ecthing the metal
surface isn't strong enough to hold the paint, a bunch of shallow scratches
aren't going to help very much. On top of that, if you use the wrong color scotchbrite
you will certainly crash and burn.
Dred
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| Subject: | Re: Broken 601 canopy |
Sorry to throw a wrench in John's encouragement but if it was Lexan, it
wouldn't be broken. It's most likely Plexiglas. But it is still fixable
though not with much strength.
Aaron
>> all is not lost. If the bubble is made from polycarbonate AKA
Lexan, then almost any solvent, MEK works,
>I managed to break a small triangular (1 x 3 inch) section out of the
bubble of my newly certificated 601XL -- where it meets the glare
shield.
Message 7
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Low-Resolution cameras.
bradfnp(at)msn.com wrote:
> how do all of y'all keep your plane parts so freaking clean? it seems like
> every picture of every aileron, flap and wingtip I see on here has pristine
> surfaces, to the point where they look like they just came out of ZAC;
> whereas mine are covered with minute scratches, stains from drops of sweat
> and a few drops of blood (o.k., well maybe more than a few!) and the ever
> present thin coat of garage dust????
>
> Just an observation
>
> Brad
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
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| Subject: | Re: Broken 601 canopy |
Type in Skysailing.com
Look for "slapstix"
We used these for canopy repair and they were not bad...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "aprazer" <aprazer@cableone.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Broken 601 canopy
>
> Ladies and Gents;
> Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Well, just a few hours ago, I managed
> to break a small triangular (1 x 3 inch) section out of the bubble of my
> newly certificated 601XL -- where it meets the glare shield.
> I can't afford a new bubble, in fact I can't afford to inquire about the
> cost of a new bubble.
> I've seen antique dishes repaired in such a manner that the repair is
> barely noticeable.
> Any ideas or solutions on how to repair this horrible mistake? I'll be
> forever grateful!
> Mack
> N990MK
>
> --------
> The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161509#161509
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing |
Not there yet but the AW limitations I have seen were written in a way that created
the two phases with one phrase.
leinad wrote:
> Scott,
> First I wanted to congratulate you. Great job!
> As to your question. I guess I'm confused by the responses, and it's probably
my misconception. I thought that before you finished your X number of hours
of phase 1 testing, the FAA issued a conditional airworthiness certificate,
that limited you to flight testing only. And it was only after completion that
they issued a normal airworthiness certificate. I assumed the limitations on
the conditional certificate would stipulate NO passengers.
> I haven't finished building, so I ask, Is that incorrect?
> Dan
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161551#161551
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| Subject: | Re: Painting the cabin |
I would forgo the cortec in the cockpit area as it is not very durable. System
three makes a 2-part waterborne epoxy primer, and a 2-part polyurethane
paint system. It is a bunch tougher than cortec. It is used a lot in the marine
industry.
go to http://www.systemthree.com and look up wr-155 primer, and wr-lpu
polyurethane.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com sells it as well
Regards,
Jeff
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| Subject: | Re: Painting the cabin |
One other thing, prep the paint areas with 400 grit silicon carbide sandpaper
and the paint will stick a LOT better. Scothbrite works fine for cleaning, but
won't do anything for helping the paint stick since it need some tooth. A
phosphoric acid etch is best, but difficult to do in the cockpit assemblies
as post etch washing would be difficult.
You can use alchohol for cleaning if you're enviro conscious, or better use
MEK when the eco-police (wife) isn't looking.
I experimented a lot with Cortec, and it will not sustain a duct tape peel
test, unless you do a VERY thorough pre-priming prep job. ... So unless you want
your cockpit full of peeling paint I would not
use Cortec.
Regards,
Jeff
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| Subject: | Re: A small setback |
It's hard enough for us to finish these projects without the helping hands
of those who feel destruction is superior to construction. Hang in there
Jim!
Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
N601EL
Previous Message
I was dealt a small setback to my CH-801 project Monday morning. See
attached link for the newspaper writup on it.
http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/013008/met_185460.shtml
I think the reporter did me a big favor writing it as she did. They didn't
post the photo of the plane, but it was on page 1, above the fold! Email me
if you want to see it.
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner with Cooling Fins |
If I recall correctly, this also used atmospheric pressure resistance against the
dome of the spinner to maintain the correct prop pitch.
As long ago as WW2 a Czech company, Avia, made a constant-speed (or maybe
just controllable) prop which had vanes on the spinner. I believe the
spinner rotated in the airstream, driving a hydraulic pump. I seem to
remember that Hartzell experimented with such a device. Anyone out there
with more knowlege about this?
George
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Hays"
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spinner with Cooling Fins
>
> Dave,
>
> That sounds familiar but I haven't found it yet. However, yesterday
> on the CorvAircraft list WW had a post regarding the Corvair powered
> 701 with 601 nosebowl on which Gus put a 3" smaller diameter spinner
> and additional inlets to feed more cooling air. Makes more sense to
> me than fins on the spinner unless the fins purpose has nothing to do
> with cooling.
>
> Al Hays
> 601XL kit-starting fuselage/Corvair
> STOL701 kit set aside probable Corvair
>
> On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:21 AM, David Downey wrote:
>
> > I do not recall that thread but there is a german company (I think)
> > that makes a automatically variable pitch prop with the change
> > mechanism built into vanes in the spinner/hub...?
> >
> > James Sagerser wrote: --> Zenith-List message
> > posted by: James Sagerser
> >
> > Recently someone mentioned a propeller manufacture who installed
> > "cooling
> > fins" on their spinners. Does anyone have information on this? Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Downey
> > Harleysville (SE) PA
> > 100 HP Corvair
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
> --
1/29/2008 9:51 AM
>
>
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing |
Scott, I just started flying paxs. Nor was I requested to notify anyone other than
my records and log books. Course I had a Great DAR instead of the Federal
Government employee/bureaucrat to deal with so it's your call. It maybe he was
just concerned and wants a friendly/unofficial update? It could happen.?Hope
to see you at S n F this April and best regards, Bill of Georgia
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 9:16 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Phase I Test Flight Testing
Hi guys:
For those of you who can fly out of your FAA imposed triangle, what did you do
after your 25 or 40 hours?
1. Notify the FAA that you are finished and wait for instruction?
2. Do nothing, just grab a passenger and fly south to some place warm?
3. Fill out a form, hire a notary, get it stamped and hang a copy on your wall?
4. Sell your airplane and start building another?
My FAA guy said to notify him when I was getting close to the 40 hours and I'm
not sure why. He had me do some other non-standard things also and I'm
wondering if this is necessary or if I can just grab a passenger and fly south.
Thanks in advance,
Scott Laughlin
Living in the Great Frozen North
601XL / Corvair Finished & Flying
www.cooknwithgas.com
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________________________________________________________________________
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|
back when I did that for a living, that was the way we always did it: cut and file
the form block to precise footprint, file/work the radius, file/grind/sand/saw
the springback compensation angle tangent to the radius circle. Note that
you end up having to advance the radius over to the tangent face of the springback
relief.
Sounds like a lot of work - but the parts always fit precisely at assembly...
Now that I think about it, I'm probably just going to remake the ribs. Didn't take
that long. Probably be easier than dealing with shims and whatnot. Plus, no
point in adding weight when I can just back up, spend an hour and redo them
the right way from the word go.
How are other people making their forms and putting the 1.8 radius on them. The
way I'm doing it is layout the measurements, then cut on the bandsaw with the
10 degree springback angle, then route. But as I've explained before, routing
with a bit that has a bearing on it actually cuts a little more than it should
making the form ever so slightly undersized. Problem is, the router in the router
table isn't any help either because the pointed edge changes dimension as
you rout. If the angle was 90 degrees it'd be ok either way, router freehand
or in the router table. Is anyone here cutting the form out with 90 degree sides,
routing, AND THEN putting the springback angle in? That seems like the way
to do it for perfect dimension sake, but then you run the risk of taking too
much off the form in any given spot.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161361#161361
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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| Subject: | Re: Flying 601 in close proximity to Boise Idaho |
Mack, I have never heard of this Idaho place your talking about, but if your down
to middle Georgia most anytime your welcome to fly my 601XL-Jab 3300 with dual
controls. Let me know and we can probably put you all up for the night as
well. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: aprazer <aprazer@cableone.net>
Sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:53 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Flying 601 in close proximity to Boise Idaho
Ladies and Gents;
Due to insurance requirements, I am wondering if there is anyone with a flying
601 within 200+/- miles of Boise Idaho that would be willing to allow my 7000
hour test pilot a checkout?
I would be forever grateful!
Mack
N990MK
Newly certificated
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161508#161508
________________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Painting the cabin |
> Sherwin-Williams has a self etching primer spray.
> I would also use the Aluminum etch too and wash it
> off thouroly, I find that works well....do not
> archive
--- Brad Cohen <bradfnp@msn.com> wrote:
> <bradfnp@msn.com>
>
> I am working on the cabin floor and wing center
> section. I am assuming that
> now (or very soon) would be the best time to pain
> the interior of the
> cockpit. I have a pretty good idea of my color
> choices but my question is
> more of a "how-to". how do I prep, prime and paint
> the cockpit?
> I am using the cortec primer that came with the kit
> (instead of Zinc
> Chromate) so I assume the painting system is a
> personal choice (such as
> Randolph, poly-tone, etc.)
>
> Prep with 3M pads then clean with MEK, but beyond
> that.....what? Do I use a
> premixed system such as polytone? or enamel with a
> reducer (whatever the
> hell that is), such as randolph?
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Brad Cohen
> XL/TD slow-build kit
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Request for Zenith Builders at SunNFun 08 |
Jim, I think I can speak for Roy. We will be glad to help some once we get in and
set up. Just as long as it does not interfere with our RV-8 looking and?hot
babe watching and general goofing off. Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: planejim@bellsouth.net
Sent: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:55 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Request for Zenith Builders at SunNFun 08
?
Fellow Zenith Builder's,?
This request is somewhat beyond the normal requests that we see here. I hope you
will bear with me.?
?
For those Zenith builders going to SunNFun 2008 at Lakeland, FL I have a special
request. To get directly to the point, those of us who work as volunteers in
the Basic Sheet Metal Workshop plan to construct a Zenith 701 during the six
days of the event. As background, let me tell you that this airplane will be built
from a Zenith kit and is being purchased by one of our workshop members.
When the aircraft is completed it will be donated to a charity. Actually it will
be called Angel-1 and be given to a Missionary organization. Zenith is selling
us the kit but will not participate in the construction. No other company
will participate except for some tool companies who will provide some metal working
tools. It will be built just by the volunteers in our workshop and the folks
who come to our shop to learn basic metal skills. Our plan is to build as
much as we can get done in the six days and then complete it and fly it at the
end of SunNFun 2009.?
?
?
My request of you folks is that we would like you experienced builders of Zenith
aircraft to act as volunteer supervisors / guides for the volunteers working
on the various parts. Of course 701 experience would be best, but you 601, 640
and 801 builders would do fine, I'm sure. We would only ask for a few hours
a day for a day or two from each of you to help us move this project along. Our
regular workshop volunteers will still run the folks through our shop and then
send them on to work on the 701.?
?
?
We plan to begin work on the aft fuselage, one wing and the tail feathers at the
same time. If time allows, we will start on the second wing and the forward
fuselage. This work will be done in a air conditioned room which is part of the
Basic Sheet Metal Workshop. As for tools, the only tool we would ask you to
bring if possible is your favorite hand or pneumatic Avex Rivet puller, including
the concave heads for the rivet pullers. We plan to have the necessary tables
in place.?
?
?
I urge you to give this some thought. I think you will enjoy helping with this
worthy project and you will be helping prospective Zenith aircraft builders who
will no doubt come by to learn.?
?
?
If you are interested in helping us with this project, please send your questions
and comments directly to me at planejim@bellsouth.net . I'll be glad to respond
with details.?
?
?
By the way, I am the Co-Chairman of the Basic Sheet Metal Workshop at SunNFun as
well as a Zenith 601HD builder. I know there are some great builders on this
site who would be a big help with our project. Please help if you can. Thanks.?
?
?
Do not archive?
?
?
Jim Hoak - Co-Chairman Basic Sheet Metal Workshop?
?
SunNFun 2008?
?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Hello group,
I am considering using a Dynon for my 601 instrument
panel. Even though I have never flown with an AOA
indicator it seems a useful addition to my panel.
My question is now: can I only use the Dynon AoA
indicator when I buy their pitot or can I use any
angle of attack sensor?
Maarten Versteeg
601xl plansbuilding wings
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Painting the cabin |
And what is the correct color?
Elden J.
xl/3300
dredmoody@cox.net wrote:
Likewise I elected to clean, prime, and paint every interior surface when it was
completely ready to rivet in place so that the subsequent assembly would be
done with parts that needed no further painting. It is much easier to do a good
job on a piece of metal lying on a sawhorse rather than after it is rivetted
inside a confined cabin.
I used laquer thinner to clean the surface, then primed with Rustoleum Automotive
self etching primer from rattle cans. The top coat is the compatible Rustoleum
Automotive color coat also from rattle cans. No sctochbrite scuffing and so
far very good adhesion. I figure if the microscopic grip of ecthing the metal
surface isn't strong enough to hold the paint, a bunch of shallow scratches
aren't going to help very much. On top of that, if you use the wrong color scotchbrite
you will certainly crash and burn.
Dred
---------------------------------
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Flying 601 in close proximity to Boise Idaho |
Bill,
Thank you for your generous offer, but due to the distance involved, I'll pass.
I would like to look you up when I visit the great state of Georgia sometime in
the future. I've heard nothing but good about the state and it's history.
My place in Idaho is fairly close to the Lewis and Clark trail and the "River of
No Return" aka the Salmon River, Hells Canyon (the deepest canyon in the USA)
which the great Snake River penetrates and then Sun Valley -- home of the world's
first ski chair lift.
Come visit us sometime.
Mack
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161614#161614
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing |
On my two other homebuilts I was given Phase one and Phase two at the same
time. AFTER completion of Phase one I signed the logs and went into the
second Phase which was a permanent thing.
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:30 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing
>
> Scott,
> First I wanted to congratulate you. Great job!
> As to your question. I guess I'm confused by the responses, and it's
> probably my misconception. I thought that before you finished your X
> number of hours of phase 1 testing, the FAA issued a conditional
> airworthiness certificate, that limited you to flight testing only. And
> it was only after completion that they issued a normal airworthiness
> certificate. I assumed the limitations on the conditional certificate
> would stipulate NO passengers.
> I haven't finished building, so I ask, Is that incorrect?
> Dan
>
>
> cookwithgas wrote:
>> Hi guys:
>>
>> For those of you who can fly out of your FAA imposed triangle, what did
>> you do after your 25 or 40 hours?
>>
>> 1. Notify the FAA that you are finished and wait for instruction?
>> 2. Do nothing, just grab a passenger and fly south to some place warm?
>> 3. Fill out a form, hire a notary, get it stamped and hang a copy on
>> your wall?
>> 4. Sell your airplane and start building another?
>>
>> My FAA guy said to notify him when I was getting close to the 40 hours
>> and I'm not sure why. He had me do some other non-standard things also
>> and I'm wondering if this is necessary or if I can just grab a passenger
>> and fly south.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Scott Laughlin
>> Living in the Great Frozen North
>> 601XL / Corvair Finished & Flying
>> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> --------
> Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161492#161492
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Painting the cabin |
Legend has it that if you use green scotchbrite on your aluminum all your children
will be born naked.
Dred
---- Elden Jacobson <eldenej@yahoo.com> wrote:
> And what is the correct color?
>
> Elden J.
> xl/3300
>
> dredmoody@cox.net wrote:
>
> Likewise I elected to clean, prime, and paint every interior surface when it
was completely ready to rivet in place so that the subsequent assembly would be
done with parts that needed no further painting. It is much easier to do a good
job on a piece of metal lying on a sawhorse rather than after it is rivetted
inside a confined cabin.
>
> I used laquer thinner to clean the surface, then primed with Rustoleum Automotive
self etching primer from rattle cans. The top coat is the compatible Rustoleum
Automotive color coat also from rattle cans. No sctochbrite scuffing and
so far very good adhesion. I figure if the microscopic grip of ecthing the metal
surface isn't strong enough to hold the paint, a bunch of shallow scratches
aren't going to help very much. On top of that, if you use the wrong color scotchbrite
you will certainly crash and burn.
>
> Dred
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lift sling for the CH-701 |
Hi Carl.
I would certainly recommend that you do NOT lift your
aircraft by the wing root attach points. The vertical
forces on the attach points nearly cancel themselves
out to zero in normal flight conditions. They are not
designed to take any appreciable vertical loads.
Mostly they handle the horizontal loads created by the
lift struts. Just take a look at the number of rivets
holding the cromoly frame to the fuselage.
I have seen this done but it was certainly NOT
designed to take such loads and the rivets may have
been overstressed. At the very least you may break
your windscreen as happened in this case.
Just my 2 cents.
David
--- Carl <cgbrt@mondenet.com> wrote:
> Les.
> Thanks for the info.
> Ref your question on gear spring, I use the original
> ZAC gear spring with 950 amphib floats. In my humble
> opinion this configuration is superior to some new
> floats I have seen for the following reason:
> 1. Config change from floats to wheel/skis and back
> is simple using the same spring.
> 2. Retain nose wheel steering.
> 3. Low centre of gravity for better cross-wind
> capability on land or water..
> 4. Spring reduces shock to fuselage during
> TO/landing on land or choppy water.
> 5. Lower access for entry/exit.
> 6. One of the lightest amphib gears for the 701. My
> floats weigh less than 60# each and that is with
> steel wheels and hyd brakes, water rudder and air
> actuator.
>
> The most important feature for those of us that are
> fallible, if you forget to retract the wheels and
> land on water the a/c will very likely remain
> upright. If for some reason you plan a water landing
> with the gear down and do it as per ZAC procedure,
> the gear will not cause an upset and the landing is
> very near normal.
>
> It is possible that the lower config will accelerate
> prop erosion. in my case with a WarpDride three bade
> and 500 hrs on the water erosion has been
> insignificant.
> Carl
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Les Goldner
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:06 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lift sling for the
> CH-701
>
>
> Carl,
> Paul Reinders, a very experienced (35,000 hour)
> Alaskan pilot who has a 701 ski/float plane,
> attached tangs to the plane for picking it up to
> change skis and floats. The tangs need to be placed
> facing upward and running parallel with the air flow
> on both forward wing root attachment points at the
> place where the wing is bolted to the fus.
>
> My 701 does not have any main gear spring
> (although the gear probably has some spring in it).
> Does your 701 have some new or specially designed
> gear?
>
> Regards,
> Les
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Carl
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:11 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Lift sling for the CH-701
>
>
> I would like to use a sling to lift my a/c to
> removal and inspect the main gear spring. I have
> seen slings for other high wing a/c that attach to
> the fuselage wing attach point and they look very
> functional.
> Has anyone done this? Has Chris H approved
> lifting the 701 this way? Any help appreciated.
> Please reply on this list.
> Carl
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Its a great toy, however since the 601xl does not have a breaking stall, which
is what you want to avert hence the AOA, its just an added bell and whistle.
CASe and point:
the AOA is to make the plane does not stall on tight turns on final or shallow
turns on final at slow speeds.
the 601 can be in slow flight at below the green arch and not break into spin,
it just drops at 1000 fpm, until you push the stick or apply a little power.
The AOA shows when the plane has no more lift based on the green arch numbers you
program in. If the 601 flys straight and level at below the green arch the
AOA becomes useless.
It could be usefull in a turn, preventing a side slip stall. But you need to have
brass balls to turn the 601 from base to final tightly (45deg or <), at less
than 55 mph.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Maarten Versteeg <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
>Sent: Jan 31, 2008 1:36 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack
>
>
>Hello group,
>
>I am considering using a Dynon for my 601 instrument
>panel. Even though I have never flown with an AOA
>indicator it seems a useful addition to my panel.
>My question is now: can I only use the Dynon AoA
>indicator when I buy their pitot or can I use any
>angle of attack sensor?
>
>Maarten Versteeg
>601xl plansbuilding wings
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing |
steve,
you are correct, that is the way its done. Some guys are confusing Phase two as
some fly off requirement.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
>Sent: Jan 31, 2008 9:40 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing
>
>
>On my two other homebuilts I was given Phase one and Phase two at the same
>time. AFTER completion of Phase one I signed the logs and went into the
>second Phase which was a permanent thing.
>
>SW
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:30 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing
>
>
>>
>> Scott,
>> First I wanted to congratulate you. Great job!
>> As to your question. I guess I'm confused by the responses, and it's
>> probably my misconception. I thought that before you finished your X
>> number of hours of phase 1 testing, the FAA issued a conditional
>> airworthiness certificate, that limited you to flight testing only. And
>> it was only after completion that they issued a normal airworthiness
>> certificate. I assumed the limitations on the conditional certificate
>> would stipulate NO passengers.
>> I haven't finished building, so I ask, Is that incorrect?
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> cookwithgas wrote:
>>> Hi guys:
>>>
>>> For those of you who can fly out of your FAA imposed triangle, what did
>>> you do after your 25 or 40 hours?
>>>
>>> 1. Notify the FAA that you are finished and wait for instruction?
>>> 2. Do nothing, just grab a passenger and fly south to some place warm?
>>> 3. Fill out a form, hire a notary, get it stamped and hang a copy on
>>> your wall?
>>> 4. Sell your airplane and start building another?
>>>
>>> My FAA guy said to notify him when I was getting close to the 40 hours
>>> and I'm not sure why. He had me do some other non-standard things also
>>> and I'm wondering if this is necessary or if I can just grab a passenger
>>> and fly south.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Scott Laughlin
>>> Living in the Great Frozen North
>>> 601XL / Corvair Finished & Flying
>>> www.cooknwithgas.com
>>
>>
>> --------
>> Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161492#161492
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Throttle Cable Friction |
I am installing the Jabiru dual throttle system in my 601XL and am trying to work
some of the friction out of the system. Most of the friction is in the solid
wire Aircraft Spruce throttles as there are a few bends in the system. Is
there any lubricant that someone can recommend for this push-pull cable application?
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail & wings completed and
fueslage pretty well done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161639#161639
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Since we all have opinions...... my opinion is that it is just as important to
avoid the stall/mush phenomenon in which the plane loses altitude precipitously
on approach and departure as it is to avoid a stall/spin event in the same
environment.
The decision to have an AOA display and learn to use it is based on how you want
to detect the threashold of the stall. If you feel that you can detect the situation
and act to avert it with out an AOA system, that's as good a choice as
choosing to install one. But saying that the plane has docile stall characteristics
is not (for me) a good reason to dismiss the usefulness of an AOA system.
Dred
Dred
---- Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Its a great toy, however since the 601xl does not have a breaking stall, which
is what you want to avert hence the AOA, its just an added bell and whistle.
CASe and point:
> the AOA is to make the plane does not stall on tight turns on final or shallow
turns on final at slow speeds.
> the 601 can be in slow flight at below the green arch and not break into spin,
it just drops at 1000 fpm, until you push the stick or apply a little power.
> The AOA shows when the plane has no more lift based on the green arch numbers
you program in. If the 601 flys straight and level at below the green arch the
AOA becomes useless.
> It could be usefull in a turn, preventing a side slip stall. But you need to
have brass balls to turn the 601 from base to final tightly (45deg or <), at
less than 55 mph.
>
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Maarten Versteeg <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
> >Sent: Jan 31, 2008 1:36 PM
> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack
> >
> >
> >Hello group,
> >
> >I am considering using a Dynon for my 601 instrument
> >panel. Even though I have never flown with an AOA
> >indicator it seems a useful addition to my panel.
> >My question is now: can I only use the Dynon AoA
> >indicator when I buy their pitot or can I use any
> >angle of attack sensor?
> >
> >Maarten Versteeg
> >601xl plansbuilding wings
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lift sling for the CH-701 |
IMHO, it will be very safe to use a three point sling under the
fuselage. Wrap one loop of nylon strap around the upper engine mount(s)
AT the firewall for the front lift point, one nylon strap looped around
the fuselage just in front of the wing, and one nylon strap looped
around the fuselage just behind the wing. Tie thin rope between each of
the straps on both sides of the fuselage so the straps do not slide back
and forth relative to each other.Join the straps to a steel tube or
"load leveler" device under the crane or winch. This will divide the
weight between three points and not put any loads on any of your lifting
structure or fittings. It would seem that the issue of where to lift the
aircraft is a perfect question to pose to Chris Heintz, because he knows
more than anyone which points are loaded which way and how much.
>
> Hi Carl.
> I would certainly recommend that you do NOT lift your
> aircraft by the wing root attach points.
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Broken 601 canopy |
Aaron, I ll drink to that. But then, I ll drink to anything.
I ve used Lexan many times and its superior to Plexi. My 601 XL canopy
thas small cracks so I assure you its not Lexan.
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Gustafson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Broken 601 canopy
Sorry to throw a wrench in John's encouragement but if it was Lexan,
it wouldn't be broken. It's most likely Plexiglas. But it is still
fixable though not with much strength.
Aaron
>> all is not lost. If the bubble is made from polycarbonate AKA
Lexan, then almost any solvent, MEK works,
>I managed to break a small triangular (1 x 3 inch) section out of
the bubble of my newly certificated 601XL -- where it meets the glare
shield.
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing |
After my airworthiness inspection, the DAR gave me the pink copy of the
airworthiness certificate and the operating limitations which authorized
me to start the Phase I testing of my airplane. A few weeks later I
received the permanent airworthiness certificate from the FAA. Later,
when I completed the phase I testing, I signed it off in my aircraft
logbook, as specified by the operating limitations, and transitioned to
Phase II. There was no "conditional" certificate issued. No further
contact with the FAA was necessary.
leinad wrote:
>
> Scott,
> First I wanted to congratulate you. Great job!
> As to your question. I guess I'm confused by the responses, and it's probably
my misconception. I thought that before you finished your X number of hours
of phase 1 testing, the FAA issued a conditional airworthiness certificate,
that limited you to flight testing only. And it was only after completion that
they issued a normal airworthiness certificate. I assumed the limitations on
the conditional certificate would stipulate NO passengers.
> I haven't finished building, so I ask, Is that incorrect?
> Dan
>
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Yeah but what about below the WHITE arc on the airspeed? Or what about
the point at the bottom of the green arc where the airplane starts to
mush and develops a very dangerous high sink rate? An AOA indicator
should allow you to fly a landing approach at the optimum
speed/angle/energy regardless of what happens when the angle gets too
high. A runaway rate of descent with no ability to arrest that descent
will crash an airplane too.
Also, if you have an airplane set up so it will not stall with the stick
all the way back then you are giving away the last several miles an hour
of slow flight ability. In a crash landing, there is a CUBED function of
energy versus velocity. Every two or three miles an hour you can slow
the airplane down before you hit something makes a significant reduction
in the amount of destructive energy that is absorbed by the airplane and
the occupants.
A little extra flight instruction, a little more skill-building on the
pilot's part, will allow your airplane to fly with better performance
(within reason) and be able to land safely in a shorter distance whether
for fun or survival.
I pissed off several canard enthusiasts one day (who were bowing,
praying and chanting in the general direction of Mojave, Caifornia) when
I said ... "when you design an airplane to be idiot-proof, you pretty
much define the market for it"
> Its a great toy, however since the 601xl does not have a breaking stall, which
is what you want to avert hence the AOA, its just an added bell and whistle.
> If the 601 flys straight and level at below the green arch the AOA becomes useless.
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Broken 601 canopy |
Several acrylic glues are available, most contain methylene chloride as
the main ingredient. Plain liquid MC applied with a syringe is best for
cracks in plexiglas. For damage like you describe, one of the thicker
glues might be better. Aircraft Spruce and other suppliers carry these
glues.
aprazer wrote:
>
> Ladies and Gents;
> Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Well, just a few hours ago, I managed to
break a small triangular (1 x 3 inch) section out of the bubble of my newly certificated
601XL -- where it meets the glare shield.
> I can't afford a new bubble, in fact I can't afford to inquire about the cost
of a new bubble.
> I've seen antique dishes repaired in such a manner that the repair is barely
noticeable.
> Any ideas or solutions on how to repair this horrible mistake? I'll be forever
grateful!
> Mack
> N990MK
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Maarten,
To go back to your original question, the best answer you will likely get is "probably,
yes, but it depends." All of the AOA sensors I have personally seen
are differential pressure systems. The input air, either via a two-pronged pitot-like
probe or two holes, one above and one below the wing leading edge provide
two air pressures to a differential pressure readout device. Initially,
the readout device, be it a steam gauge or electronic indication, is just a dumb
indication of differential pressure. By YOUR calibration, on YOUR airplane,
the differential pressure that the particular set of probes sends to the particular
readout device at or near stall become your critical AOA values.
So it all depends on if the probe supplies the range of pressures that match the
range of your indicator. The best bet would be to use hardware that is known
to be compatible.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail & wings completed and
fueslage pretty well done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161655#161655
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Cable Friction |
Sorry for the dictatorial rant, but please read this: As I posted
recently, we lost a 601XL recently from our EAA chapter on the first
flight. It was sheer luck that the guy walked away. There is a high
probability that the throttle linkage bent, or "over-centered" or had a
friction problem or did not overcome the spring on the engine, or
something of some sort... which caused the engine room to not answer the
phone when the pilot needed it most.
A quick answer to your throttle friction problem is the use of a flex
cable instead of a solid wire. This will usually resolve a lot of
friction issues. BUT you have to be triple-careful, because a flex cable
will not stay as rigid in compression (pushing) as a wire.
The problem is that too little stiffness in the pushrod causes one
problem, and too much stiffness causes another. The flex cable is
fantastic in push and pull when it is inside the outer sheath, but gets
weak in pushing after it leaves the sheath. Add to this the fact you
MUST have some "cushion" in the system, meaning that the pushrod system
has to have at least 10% more free movement than is required by full
movement of the (carburetor / air control / fuel injection servo /
engine control arm) that the pushrod is moving.
The bottom line is that you have to play around with your engine
controls a LOT, make absolutely sure there is no binding or
over-centering or weakness against a spring, etc., make DAMN sure you
have that 10% or better cushion, and then you have to TEST it out
operationally before it flies. Again, sorry for the oppressive tone
here, but I'm probably saving someone's life.
Have someone sit in the cockpit and operate the throttle while you move
and bend and pull on every part of it from the instrument panel to the
engine. You are TRYING to create a failure, or sticking, or binding, or
over-centering. Hold the throttle arm on the engine and try to RESIST
the movement of the lever in the cockpit. Pull the pushrod in all
directions to see if you can make it stick. Hold the engine control
against and with the throttle movement. Twist and kink the pushrod
anywhere it can be moved and see what that does. You will probably find
that you want to tie the pushrod in more places inside the engine
compartment, and you will probably see that one or more rigid supported
"stand-off" parts are very well advised.
This test of having someone in the cockpit moving the controls and you
trying to prevent the controls from working is also necessary on every
other type of control, like the elevator, ailerons, rudder, steering,
flaps, canopy/doors, etc. This is life and death stuff here, folks, pay
attention.
Also, FORGET about using those wonderful little plastic wire ties to
hold everything on the engine. They can melt, they can crack and they
can get a little loose over time. Any flight critical tiedown inside the
engine compartment should be done with an Adel clamp (aircraft loop
clamp) or good old safety wire. Non-critical wiring and SOME of the
spark plug leads, engine instrument wires and such... sure, the plastic
ties are fine.
The Devil is in the details, as they say. These are the details in which
the Devil hides in an airplane.
DaveG601XL wrote:
>
> I am installing the Jabiru dual throttle system in my 601XL and am trying to
work some of the friction out of the system. Most of the friction is in the solid
wire Aircraft Spruce throttles as there are a few bends in the system.
Is there any lubricant that someone can recommend for this push-pull cable application?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, tail & wings completed and
> fueslage pretty well done. Working engine and electrical systems.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161639#161639
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Corvair parts and services |
Hello to the Zenith group. My name is Bill Clapp and I am a KR builder/pilot.
As some of you know I have been working in the land of corvairs and also helping
some 601 builders get into the air. Notebly I have helped Charle Leonard
and Ken Smith in inspecting and test flying their 601's and getting them comfortable
in their planes. I would like you to check out my web page at (billclapp.com)
and look under corvair services and the services page and see if I can
help you. I am currently working on providing some people with the parts
and expertise needed to get their aircraft airborne. So look me up, give me an
email and lets see if I can help. I provide more "stuff" than is mentioned
so dont be afraid to ask. Thank you. Bill Clapp
Bill Clapp - KR2S builder and pilot
Valdosta GA
www.billclapp.com
---------------------------------
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Bill. I just want to say that was VERY well written and expressed. My ta
ke on this is,,,, Fly the plane from the seat of the pants. If one needs
some gauge to tell you him/her how close the plane is to a stall severa
l things might happen.1- The bottom might drop out during a wind sheer s
iuation,.2- keeping your head in the cockpit looking at a gauge might le
t you run into another plane or terrain. God forbid if the pitot tube/se
nsor and/or the gauge goes bad at the worst time and you are trusting it
.... YMMV
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
Yeah but what about below the WHITE arc on the airspeed? Or what about
the point at the bottom of the green arc where the airplane starts to
mush and develops a very dangerous high sink rate? An AOA indicator
should allow you to fly a landing approach at the optimum
speed/angle/energy regardless of what happens when the angle gets too
high. A runaway rate of descent with no ability to arrest that descent
will crash an airplane too.
Also, if you have an airplane set up so it will not stall with the stick
all the way back then you are giving away the last several miles an hour
of slow flight ability. In a crash landing, there is a CUBED function of
energy versus velocity. Every two or three miles an hour you can slow
the airplane down before you hit something makes a significant reduction
in the amount of destructive energy that is absorbed by the airplane and
the occupants.
A little extra flight instruction, a little more skill-building on the
pilot's part, will allow your airplane to fly with better performance
(within reason) and be able to land safely in a shorter distance whether
for fun or survival.
I pissed off several canard enthusiasts one day (who were bowing,
praying and chanting in the general direction of Mojave, Caifornia) when
I said ... "when you design an airplane to be idiot-proof, you pretty
much define the market for it"
> Its a great toy, however since the 601xl does not have a breaking stal
l, which is what you want to avert hence the AOA, its just an added bell
and whistle.
> If the 601 flys straight and level at below the green arch the AOA bec
omes useless.
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
_____________________________________________________________
Protect your eyes. Click here for free information on eye care.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tNsIuMwrtIJTOe8dE3
8w5zQ2pKimcrgPbv2Y9XoAZGc3Se2/
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Rib flange repair |
Greetings:
=C2-
While back drilling the bottom rear skin to the ribs on my right
wing, I managed to drill a hole through the rib flange in the wrong location
.=C2- I know that nobody on this list would make
such a silly mistake, but imagine for a moment if you did.=C2- Would you l
eave it as an empty hole under the
skin or fill it with a flush rivet.=C2- I suspect
that the best solution is to put the extra rivet through the skin, but it fa
lls
crazy far from the normal rivet line and I=99m vain.=C2-
Thanks for your help.=C2-
Bill=C2-
601xl
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Rib flange repair |
Put a rivet in the errant hole and put in one or two more rivets around
that site to satify the strength requirements of the area. If anyone
notices one extra rivet, on the bottom of your wing, no less, you should
run that guy out from under your airplane. I mean, what the hell is he
doing under there in the first place?
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: thesumak@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rib flange repair
Greetings:
While back drilling the bottom rear skin to the ribs on my right wing,
I managed to drill a hole through the rib flange in the wrong location.
I know that nobody on this list would make such a silly mistake, but
imagine for a moment if you did. Would you leave it as an empty hole
under the skin or fill it with a flush rivet. I suspect that the best
solution is to put the extra rivet through the skin, but it falls crazy
far from the normal rivet line and I=99m vain.
Thanks for your help.
Bill
601xl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/30/2008 8:51 PM
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
The comment about ideiot proofing I agree totally about, thats what I think of
the AOA, just anotherthing to marvel at in the cocckpit , when you should be flying
the plane.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
>Sent: Jan 31, 2008 5:38 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack
>
>Bill. I just want to say that was VERY well written and expressed. My take on
this is,,,, Fly the plane from the seat of the pants. If one needs some gauge
to tell you him/her how close the plane is to a stall several things might happen.1-
The bottom might drop out during a wind sheer siuation,.2- keeping your
head in the cockpit looking at a gauge might let you run into another plane or
terrain. God forbid if the pitot tube/sensor and/or the gauge goes bad at the
worst time and you are trusting it.... YMMV
>do not archive
>
>
>Ben Haas
>N801BH
>www.haaspowerair.com
>
>-- Bill Berle <victorbravo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>Yeah but what about below the WHITE arc on the airspeed? Or what about
>the point at the bottom of the green arc where the airplane starts to
>mush and develops a very dangerous high sink rate? An AOA indicator
>should allow you to fly a landing approach at the optimum
>speed/angle/energy regardless of what happens when the angle gets too
>high. A runaway rate of descent with no ability to arrest that descent
>will crash an airplane too.
>
>Also, if you have an airplane set up so it will not stall with the stick
>all the way back then you are giving away the last several miles an hour
>of slow flight ability. In a crash landing, there is a CUBED function of
>energy versus velocity. Every two or three miles an hour you can slow
>the airplane down before you hit something makes a significant reduction
>in the amount of destructive energy that is absorbed by the airplane and
>the occupants.
>
>A little extra flight instruction, a little more skill-building on the
>pilot's part, will allow your airplane to fly with better performance
>(within reason) and be able to land safely in a shorter distance whether
>for fun or survival.
>
>I pissed off several canard enthusiasts one day (who were bowing,
>praying and chanting in the general direction of Mojave, Caifornia) when
>I said ... "when you design an airplane to be idiot-proof, you pretty
>much define the market for it"
>
>
>> Its a great toy, however since the 601xl does not have a breaking stall, which
is what you want to avert hence the AOA, its just an added bell and whistle.
>> If the 601 flys straight and level at below the green arch the AOA becomes useless.
>
>
>===================================
>===================================
>===================================
>===================================
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Protect your eyes. Click here for free information on eye care.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tNsIuMwrtIJTOe8dE38w5zQ2pKimcrgPbv2Y9XoAZGc3Se2/
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
I dont know of any other sensor that will work with
our pitot. But, that doesn't mean there aren't any. If
I remember correctly, someone out there does make an
external indicator that works off of the serial stream
we put out.
Dan Lykowski
Dynon Avionics
--- Maarten Versteeg <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
wrote:
> <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
>
> Hello group,
>
> I am considering using a Dynon for my 601 instrument
> panel. Even though I have never flown with an AOA
> indicator it seems a useful addition to my panel.
> My question is now: can I only use the Dynon AoA
> indicator when I buy their pitot or can I use any
> angle of attack sensor?
>
> Maarten Versteeg
> 601xl plansbuilding wings
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Cabin access step - 601XL |
Just curious what others are doing about the tube that joins the two cabin access
steps. Did you just slip it together and forget it or did you either weld
the joint or put a bolt through it once you fitted the steps to the fuselage?
Seems to me that you'd get a little more strength out of a welded or bolted slip
joint.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161699#161699
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rib flange repair |
I won't openly admit to any errant holes in the underside of my wing, but I intend
to be very diligent not to let a guy like Dred describes below, anywhere near
it.
Do not archive
--- On Thu, 1/31/08, Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
> From: Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rib flange repair
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, January 31, 2008, 4:56 PM
> Put a rivet in the errant hole and put in one or two more
> rivets around that site to satify the strength requirements
> of the area. If anyone notices one extra rivet, on the
> bottom of your wing, no less, you should run that guy out
> from under your airplane. I mean, what the hell is he doing
> under there in the first place?
>
> Dred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thesumak@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:43 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Rib flange repair
>
>
> Greetings:
>
> While back drilling the bottom rear skin to the ribs on
> my right wing, I managed to drill a hole through the rib
> flange in the wrong location. I know that nobody on this
> list would make such a silly mistake, but imagine for a
> moment if you did. Would you leave it as an empty hole
> under the skin or fill it with a flush rivet. I suspect
> that the best solution is to put the extra rivet through
> the skin, but it falls crazy far from the normal rivet line
> and Im vain.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Bill
> 601xl
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> 1/30/2008 8:51 PM
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Rib flange repair |
Bill,
If the hole is only in the rib flange below the skin, and it's nowhere
near the place it should have been, leave it be. You'll not need to
worry about
it for the sake of strength. It's a round hole after all and not
inclined to crack from there, being on the bottom. If you did the skin
too, then put
a rivet there and forget it. It won't be seen when the plane is
assembled anyway.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
thesumak@aol.com wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> While back drilling the bottom rear skin to the ribs on my right wing,
> I managed to drill a hole through the rib flange in the wrong
> location. I know that nobody on this list would make such a silly
> mistake, but imagine for a moment if you did. Would you leave it as
> an empty hole under the skin or fill it with a flush rivet. I suspect
> that the best solution is to put the extra rivet through the skin, but
> it falls crazy far from the normal rivet line and Im vain.
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Bill
> 601xl
Message 45
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Thanks, Ed.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Moody II
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address
It's
zenithairss@gmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Address
Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address?
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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---
Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM
Message 46
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Thanks, Ken.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "ken smith" <lrepilot@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address
>
> try this
> zenithairss@gmail.com
>
> --- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address?
>> Bill Naumuk
>> Townville, Pa.
>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>
>
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
>
Message 47
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I forgot
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address
Thanks, Ed.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Moody II
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address
It's
zenithairss@gmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Address
Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address?
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM
Message 48
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Thanks, Art.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art Olechowski" <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
<zenithairss@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address
> <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Shirley Swearingen > zenithairss@gmail.com
>
> do not archive
>
> --- Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address?
>> Bill Naumuk
>> Townville, Pa.
>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>
>
>
Message 49
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Thanks, Wade.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: wade jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address
Zenithairss@gmail.com Try this Bill .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Address
Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address?
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 50
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Bill-
This one's different from all the others. I'll try both.
Thanks.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Steer" <steerr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Address
>
> shirley@zenithair.com
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>> Does anyone have Shirley's Zenith e-mail address?
>> Bill Naumuk
>> Townville, Pa.
>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 51
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|
Brad-
It's all in the pictures. They look that grungy in person, just great
under the camera lens.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: By The Way
>
> how do all of y'all keep your plane parts so freaking clean? it seems like
> every picture of every aileron, flap and wingtip I see on here has
> pristine surfaces, to the point where they look like they just came out of
> ZAC; whereas mine are covered with minute scratches, stains from drops of
> sweat and a few drops of blood (o.k., well maybe more than a few!) and the
> ever present thin coat of garage dust????
>
> Just an observation
>
> Brad
>
>
>
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Cabin access step - 601XL |
Just curious what others are doing about the tube that joins the two cabin
access steps. Did you just slip it together and forget it or did you either
weld the joint or put a bolt through it once you fitted the steps to the
fuselage?
Tim,
Since this design differed from the design in my HD plans, I asked
Nick about it. He said they just slip together. That's all. The previous
design included two pieces of extruded L on the bottom of the fuselage in
the middle. The bare ends of the steps were riveted to the extruded pieces.
The "new" design is much simpler. I have used the steps a lot without even
considering how the meet in the middle for a while now.
Jeff Davidson
Message 53
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I have for sale 2 new sets of wheel pants (original size ) still in the brown paper
as shipped from Zenith.
they are less the mounting brackets and can be bought for $275 or best offer.
Bobby Paulk
N131BP
Message 54
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| Subject: | Rib flange repair |
Larry:
Thanks for your reply to my rib flange problem.? I visited your site.? Lots of
interesting things.? I'm a bike builder also.? I have made several long wheel
base recumbents and a few bikes that come apart for transport in small airplanes.?
Your short wheel base design looks great but I have a question:? Do you have
enough clearance between the front wheel and the pedals to allow you to pedal
while turning??? Thanks again for your help.
Bill
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin access step - 601XL |
I think you'll find that when the tubes are slipped together and the
step flanges are rivetted to the sides and longerons, further
reinforcement is not needed. I just slipped them together.... no
welding..... no bolts.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cabin access step - 601XL
Just curious what others are doing about the tube that joins the two
cabin access steps. Did you just slip it together and forget it or did
you either weld the joint or put a bolt through it once you fitted the
steps to the fuselage?
Seems to me that you'd get a little more strength out of a welded or
bolted slip joint.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161699#161699
--
1/31/2008 8:30 PM
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Maarten,
Don't listen to all this negativity, if you want to use the AOA
indicator do it. Look in the archives of "AOA for your Dynon". I
submitted some pictures of a sensor I made using copper tubing and
aluminum. Since you all ready bought the Dynon why not use all the
functions it has. I have mine working and I do consult it especially on
turns in the landing pattern. I've flown for 40 years without one and
certainly can now but I believe he who dies with the most toys wins.
Tim Shankland
Maarten Versteeg wrote:
> <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
>
> Hello group,
>
> I am considering using a Dynon for my 601 instrument
> panel. Even though I have never flown with an AOA
> indicator it seems a useful addition to my panel.
> My question is now: can I only use the Dynon AoA
> indicator when I buy their pitot or can I use any
> angle of attack sensor?
>
> Maarten Versteeg
> 601xl plansbuilding wings
>
>
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| Subject: | AOA system eye candy |
I stand corrected on the subject of AOA systems. I just realized that
the Navy has these systems on their aircraft so that the pilots will
have their heads buried so deep in the cockpit that they crash into the
fantail of the carrier. Yep, way too much distraction for me. I'm gonna
disable mine first chance I get. Thanks for the warning.
Dred
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Phase I Test Flight Testing |
Bryan,
And everyone else that helped explained it. Thanks! I'm glad I got that misconception
out of the way.
Dan Dempsey
bryanmmartin wrote:
> After my airworthiness inspection, the DAR gave me the pink copy of the
> airworthiness certificate and the operating limitations which authorized
> me to start the Phase I testing of my airplane. A few weeks later I
> received the permanent airworthiness certificate from the FAA. Later,
> when I completed the phase I testing, I signed it off in my aircraft
> logbook, as specified by the operating limitations, and transitioned to
> Phase II. There was no "conditional" certificate issued. No further
> contact with the FAA was necessary.
>
> leinad wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Scott,
> > First I wanted to congratulate you. Great job!
> > As to your question. I guess I'm confused by the responses, and it's probably
my misconception. I thought that before you finished your X number of hours
of phase 1 testing, the FAA issued a conditional airworthiness certificate,
that limited you to flight testing only. And it was only after completion
that they issued a normal airworthiness certificate. I assumed the limitations
on the conditional certificate would stipulate NO passengers.
> > I haven't finished building, so I ask, Is that incorrect?
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> Zenith 601XL N61BM
> Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
> Do Not Archive
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161756#161756
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Maarten,
Tim Shankland I beleive made a post (#49240) about bending up some copper tubing
and it is in the archives. Great idea Tim.
Anyway, I have the Dynon AOA Pitot tube and it is quite pricey. Being that the
device is an electronic instrument I gotta believe there are variables that can
be adjusted to compensate for whatever pressure differentials you are reading.
Tim's post reveals that truth.
If I had seen the copper tubing design first I would have most likely used that
method.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161757#161757
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| Subject: | want to buy completed ch 801, partnership OK |
I would like to purchase a Zenith 801, but don't have time or knowledge to build
it. Does anyone own (or know of) an 801 that is for sale? I am already watching
Trade-a-Plane, Barnstormers, eBay, etc.
I would also consider a partnership in SE Texas. I am in need of a plane for STOL
at a fishing camp landing strip on the South Texas coast, and a ranch field
in Central Texas.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
--Curtis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161762#161762
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| Subject: | Re: AOA system eye candy |
It is probably used in a heads up display projected on the windscreen. T
he thing costs more then your house and plane put together...
safe flyin out there.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
I stand corrected on the subject of AOA systems. I just realized that th
e Navy has these systems on their aircraft so that the pilots will have
their heads buried so deep in the cockpit that they crash into the fanta
il of the carrier. Yep, way too much distraction for me. I'm gonna disab
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Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin access step - 601XL |
Well I drilled and bolted the middle section AFTER I drilled and clicoed the sides.
I then welded the center and covered the drilled hoes with weld. IT is strong
and NO flexing. The other Zodiacs I have stood on all flexed a bit..
]Your choice you may not need it but boy it stiffened it up.
Chris
XL
Jab3300
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