Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:44 AM - Re: 701 with chute (ricklach)
2. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: ethanol in auto gas (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: ethanol in auto gas (Bryan Martin)
4. 09:45 AM - Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Mark Burton)
5. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack (Edward Moody II)
6. 11:11 AM - Re: Lift sling for the CH-701 (Les Goldner)
7. 11:37 AM - Re: 701 with chute (Les Goldner)
8. 02:47 PM - N5SL - another flight video (cookwithgas)
9. 03:20 PM - Re: N5SL - another flight video (Juan Vega)
10. 03:36 PM - XL Parts catalog bonus (Tim Juhl)
11. 05:09 PM - prepunched wing skins on XL (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com)
12. 08:07 PM - EXPERIMENTAL (steve)
13. 08:22 PM - Re: Flight report & question-701 (dkandle)
14. 09:11 PM - Re: EXPERIMENTAL (Bryan Martin)
15. 09:20 PM - So-long and fairwell (Dave Thompson)
16. 10:13 PM - Re: So-long and fairwell (Joemotis@aol.com)
17. 10:49 PM - Re: Re: Flight report & question-701 (Les Goldner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 701 with chute |
I have a BSR in my 701. If you contact me off line I'll be happy to send you some
pictures.
Rick
rick@ravengear.us
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162042#162042
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: ethanol in auto gas |
Hi Don,
I'm afraid the truth of the alcohol in airplane fuel question lies
somewhere between your position and the one expressed in the
article. I am, indeed, prejudiced by my income from petroleum, but I
am also reasonably well informed by my years following that
industry. I don't feel threatened by alcohol, but I do believe it is
a poor choice for airplane fuel.
You did a good job of covering the problems of carburetor and other
fuel system damage from alcohol. I don't know how to make these
elements alcohol proof, but I would like to. If you have any
specific information on gaskets, fuel lines, and other materials that
resist the alcohol I would love to hear it.
It does take a considerable amount of energy to produce alcohol. I
don't know about the statement that it takes more petroleum fuel than
the alcohol produced, but your point about costs for alcohol is a
good one. I think the energy needed to process the farmer's fields
and harvest and transport the corn must be combined with the energy
needed to boil the fermented mash to separate the alcohol from the
other materials. If all of this energy came from petroleum then it
might indeed take more than a gallon of petro-fuel to produce a
gallon of alcohol, but there are many other energy sources that could
be used for the distillation process.
I am concerned about your comment regarding draining water from the
fuel regularly. The alcohol actually dissolves water in the liquid,
so draining it only gets some of the water out of the fuel. I think
there will still be a considerable amount of water going through the
engine even if there is no apparent water in the fuel tanks.
The part that pilots really need to know is that alcohol has
considerably less energy per gallon than gasoline. (Also, gasoline
has a similar reduction in energy per gallon compared to diesel
fuel.) That means the range of your plane will be reduced if you use
alcohol. I don't care much about the cost implications of this
reduction, but it could be a serious safety issue if you fly with
minimum fuel margins and don't factor in the need for additional
gallons of fuel when it contains alcohol. I'm not sure, but I
suspect the variable amount of water in alcohol based fuels could
also make a considerable reduction in airplane range.
I am troubled by the government forcing alcohol into virtually all
gasoline. At the same time the federal government also imposes a
large import duty on alcohol. I think this is a misguided attempt to
create energy independence for the USA. It also means converting
large food production capacities to fuel production which might help
with the fuel situation but lead to starvation for lower income people.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 06:40 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
>I don't believe I would place much credibility in this newspaper
>article about alcohol in auto fuel. The writer is much prejudiced
>toward his oil company's associations with alcohol suppliers. Our
>Omaha EAA chapter recently toured through an aircraft engine
>re-builder that was working on crop duster Lycoming IO-540's that
>had more than 3000 hours on them from Brazil, South America. And
>all of those hours were flown with 100% alcohol. We were told they
>were the cleanest and showing the least wear of any engines they had
>seen with that many hours on them. Also its common in the United
>States for oval track car races to run pure alcohol. Alcohol runs
>cooler than gasoline, so it has advantages in both racing engines
>and aircraft engines that fly in hot weather. And there are several
>demonstration airplanes flying in this country on pure alcohol. The
>10% alcohol won't hurt your aircraft engine. But you just need to
>be aware of and alcohol proof your system. Carburetor seals,
>gaskets and floats need to be alcohol proof. Fuel lines and gas
>tank coatings need to be alcohol proof. Carburetor jets need to
>have the adjustment range to handle a correct mixture. Water needs
>to be drained out of the system regularly. And vapor pressure needs
>to be considered when flying in high altitudes or hot days.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: ethanol in auto gas |
Another problem that I see is that a little bit of water in the
gasohol will be held in suspension in the fuel by the alcohol but a
large amount of water will settle out to the bottom of the tank,
drawing most of the alcohol with it. This, in fact is how you test
for alcohol in gasoline. Gasohol is actually a relatively low octane
gasoline with alcohol added. The alcohol increases the octane of the
mixture to its rated value. Now you have a mixture of alcohol and
water at the bottom of the tank that probably won't burn too well and
gasoline floating on top with a significantly reduced octane rating.
Now when you sump the tank, you'll be draining out most of the alcohol
along with the water, leaving behind the low octane gasoline. For an
automobile, this isn't much of a problem since autos produced today
generally have knock sensors and computer controlled ignition systems
that can compensate for the lower octane fuel. Most aircraft engines
don't have this ability and burning a lower octane fuel than the
engine requires can rapidly destroy the engine.
If the fuel system and engine is designed for it, burning straight
alcohol or E85 should not be a problem. This fuel should be relatively
insensitive to a small amount of water in the mix. Mixing small
amounts of alcohol with gasoline is a bad idea.
Alcohol is a pretty good motor fuel by itself if the engine is
designed to run on it. Gasoline is also a good motor fuel. Mixing
alcohol with gasoline produces a fuel with more problems than
advantages. We need to get the politicians out of the loop and leave
fuel system and engine design to people who actually know what they're
doing.
>
> Hi Don,
>
> ...
>
> I am concerned about your comment regarding draining water from the
> fuel regularly. The alcohol actually dissolves water in the liquid,
> so draining it only gets some of the water out of the fuel. I think
> there will still be a considerable amount of water going through the
> engine even if there is no apparent water in the fuel tanks.
>
> ...
>
>
> At 06:40 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
>> I don't believe I would place much credibility in this newspaper
>> article about alcohol in auto fuel. The writer is much prejudiced
>> toward his oil company's associations with alcohol suppliers. Our
>> Omaha EAA chapter recently toured through an aircraft engine re-
>> builder that was working on crop duster Lycoming IO-540's that had
>> more than 3000 hours on them from Brazil, South America. And all
>> of those hours were flown with 100% alcohol. We were told they
>> were the cleanest and showing the least wear of any engines they
>> had seen with that many hours on them. Also its common in the
>> United States for oval track car races to run pure alcohol.
>> Alcohol runs cooler than gasoline, so it has advantages in both
>> racing engines and aircraft engines that fly in hot weather. And
>> there are several demonstration airplanes flying in this country on
>> pure alcohol. The 10% alcohol won't hurt your aircraft engine.
>> But you just need to be aware of and alcohol proof your system.
>> Carburetor seals, gaskets and floats need to be alcohol proof.
>> Fuel lines and gas tank coatings need to be alcohol proof.
>> Carburetor jets need to have the adjustment range to handle a
>> correct mixture. Water needs to be drained out of the system
>> regularly. And vapor pressure needs to be considered when flying
>> in high altitudes or hot days.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Hello Zenith folks,
If you want to maintain a safe margin above the stall but not have your head buried
in the cockpit, you could fit a "SmartASS" device that my company, Smart
Avionics manufactures.
This unit measures airspeed and vertical acceleration and talks to the pilot through
the headset. No dials or lights to look at so you can keep your eyes out
of the window all the way down the approach.
One mode of operation for this unit is as a "stall margin preserver" that tells
the pilot (through their headset) if they are diverging from a chosen approach
speed. If they pull G, that gets noticed instantly so it's a bit like having
an AOA instrument compared to just using an ASI alone.
The reason I invented it was because I wanted to keep my eyes out of the cockpit
while still flying a very accurate approach.
Details can be found at www.smartavionics.com
Cheers,
Mark
PS - I agree that being able to fly your aircraft by feel alone and not looking
at the instruments is a great skill to have, but if you are as dozy a pilot as
I am, you need all the help you can get!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162059#162059
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack |
Is the prop balancer available for shipping to the USA. If not, when is
the new model expected. What cost in American dollars including
shipping?
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Burton
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 11:40 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon Pitot / Angle of Attack
Hello Zenith folks,
If you want to maintain a safe margin above the stall but not have
your head buried in the cockpit, you could fit a "SmartASS" device that
my company, Smart Avionics manufactures.
This unit measures airspeed and vertical acceleration and talks to the
pilot through the headset. No dials or lights to look at so you can keep
your eyes out of the window all the way down the approach.
One mode of operation for this unit is as a "stall margin preserver"
that tells the pilot (through their headset) if they are diverging from
a chosen approach speed. If they pull G, that gets noticed instantly so
it's a bit like having an AOA instrument compared to just using an ASI
alone.
The reason I invented it was because I wanted to keep my eyes out of
the cockpit while still flying a very accurate approach.
Details can be found at www.smartavionics.com
Cheers,
Mark
PS - I agree that being able to fly your aircraft by feel alone and
not looking at the instruments is a great skill to have, but if you are
as dozy a pilot as I am, you need all the help you can get!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162059#162059
--
2/1/2008 9:59 AM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Lift sling for the CH-701 |
Carl,
I suggest you contact Paul Reinders. He has a 701 that he changes from
floats to skies by lifting the plane from these attachment points. I trust
Paul. He has 35000 flight hours to his credit.
I'm an engineer and see no apparent reason why you should not lift the plane
from the wing root attach points and, as I said, Paul has been doing this
for some time now.
For more information email Paul at paaual@juno.com
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> David Barth
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:56 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lift sling for the CH-701
>
>
> Hi Carl.
> I would certainly recommend that you do NOT lift your
> aircraft by the wing root attach points. The vertical forces
> on the attach points nearly cancel themselves out to zero in
> normal flight conditions. They are not designed to take any
> appreciable vertical loads.
> Mostly they handle the horizontal loads created by the lift
> struts. Just take a look at the number of rivets holding the
> cromoly frame to the fuselage.
>
> I have seen this done but it was certainly NOT designed to
> take such loads and the rivets may have been overstressed. At
> the very least you may break your windscreen as happened in this case.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
> David
> --- Carl <cgbrt@mondenet.com> wrote:
>
> > Les.
> > Thanks for the info.
> > Ref your question on gear spring, I use the original ZAC
> gear spring
> > with 950 amphib floats. In my humble opinion this configuration is
> > superior to some new floats I have seen for the following reason:
> > 1. Config change from floats to wheel/skis and back is simple using
> > the same spring.
> > 2. Retain nose wheel steering.
> > 3. Low centre of gravity for better cross-wind capability
> on land or
> > water..
> > 4. Spring reduces shock to fuselage during TO/landing on land or
> > choppy water.
> > 5. Lower access for entry/exit.
> > 6. One of the lightest amphib gears for the 701. My floats
> weigh less
> > than 60# each and that is with steel wheels and hyd brakes, water
> > rudder and air actuator.
> >
> > The most important feature for those of us that are
> fallible, if you
> > forget to retract the wheels and land on water the a/c will very
> > likely remain upright. If for some reason you plan a water landing
> > with the gear down and do it as per ZAC procedure, the gear
> will not
> > cause an upset and the landing is very near normal.
> >
> > It is possible that the lower config will accelerate prop
> erosion. in
> > my case with a WarpDride three bade and 500 hrs on the
> water erosion
> > has been insignificant.
> > Carl
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Les Goldner
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:06 PM
> > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lift sling for the
> > CH-701
> >
> >
> > Carl,
> > Paul Reinders, a very experienced (35,000 hour) Alaskan pilot who
> > has a 701 ski/float plane, attached tangs to the plane for
> picking it
> > up to change skis and floats. The tangs need to be placed facing
> > upward and running parallel with the air flow on both forward wing
> > root attachment points at the place where the wing is bolted to the
> > fus.
> >
> > My 701 does not have any main gear spring (although the gear
> > probably has some spring in it).
> > Does your 701 have some new or specially designed gear?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:11 AM
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Lift sling for the CH-701
> >
> >
> > I would like to use a sling to lift my a/c to removal
> and inspect
> > the main gear spring. I have seen slings for other high
> wing a/c that
> > attach to the fuselage wing attach point and they look very
> > functional.
> > Has anyone done this? Has Chris H approved lifting the 701 this
> > way? Any help appreciated.
> > Please reply on this list.
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://w
> ww.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr
> onics.com
> >
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron
> ics.com/c
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> David Barth
> 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
> Working on Wings
> www.ch601.org
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
Message 7
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Tracy,
I will send you pictures of my 701 installation offline.
BRS's recommendations regarding installation in a 701 probably won't work!
They recommend attaching two heavy "L"s to the inside back of the
unreinforced baggage compartment. These "L"s are strong, but not what they
are attached to. I understand that when the chute ignites, there is
considerable downward force, which would most certainly distort the baggage
compartment, which could prevent the chute from deploying properly. I added
reinforcement from which my 180# bod was able to hang from without
distortion.
My installation is behind the baggage compartment. This frees up baggage
space, but makes the plane's CG a little further aft than I would like (but
still within limits) Another advantage of a behind baggage compartment
installation is protection from the shell. Have you ever have a shell go off
right behind your head?
Regards,
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 8:11 PM
> To: zenith-list: matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 with chute
>
>
> does anyone that has an 701 with the brs parachute in it tell
> me what they did to reniforce the bagage area to hold the
> weight of the canister?
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | N5SL - another flight video |
Guys:
I posted this to the Corvair list already so apologies for those that have to see
it twice.
It is toe-freezing cold up here in Nebraska today. This morning my test pilot
brought along his youngest son to the airport for our Saturday-fly-off session
for N5SL. I shot some video of Ron taking off and landing. His son was pretty
excited about seeing it all.
Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bJ34SSATJ8
or
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/February_2nd_Flight.wmv
Scott (It's cold up here) Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162086#162086
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: N5SL - another flight video |
cool video. nice landings. all the hard work really paid off.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Feb 2, 2008 5:42 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: N5SL - another flight video
>
>
>Guys:
>
>I posted this to the Corvair list already so apologies for those that have to
see it twice.
>
>It is toe-freezing cold up here in Nebraska today. This morning my test pilot
brought along his youngest son to the airport for our Saturday-fly-off session
for N5SL. I shot some video of Ron taking off and landing. His son was pretty
excited about seeing it all.
>
>Enjoy:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bJ34SSATJ8
>
>or
>
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/February_2nd_Flight.wmv
>
>Scott (It's cold up here) Laughlin
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162086#162086
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | XL Parts catalog bonus |
You guys probably already know this but I thought I'd pass it on. I took a look
at the online illustrated parts catalog today and noticed that many of the pages
show an exploded view of the different sections of the aircraft in a way
that helped me clarify the general arrangement of parts better than some of the
plans drawings.
For instance, 6XK7 describes the actual number and placement of cork strips on
the fuel tank, something the plans and pictorial guide only do in generalities.
Tim
do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162093#162093
Message 11
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| Subject: | prepunched wing skins on XL |
Has anybody but me had trouble with the prepunched bottom wing skins along
the main spar being too far forward. The holes in the skins were very close to
the spar web when the skin was flush with the rear spar. ZAC says they have had
no other complains on this except me??
Message 12
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Where are you placing the required "EXPERIMENTAL" on your 601 ? I
plan on the outside skin behind the pilot/passenger...inside the
canopy....
Steve W
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Flight report & question-701 |
> My 701 tail also stays down if you push it to the ground and also tries to
> climb very steeply on takeoff if I don't set the trim down. ...
>
> Can you tell us what engine you have, where does your empty CG fall, and
> what is the weight of your 701? ...
> Did you do much damage to your plane when the tail hit?
>
> Regards,
> Les
>
>
>
Les: I have a 912ULS and use a rather light Osprey battery located behind the
seat (normal location). I don't have my paperwork in front of me, but my empty
weight is about 590 lbs.
No real damage was done. Just some scuff marks and a slightly bent rudder horn.
I think I'll put a skid on the back. It also touched the rear lower part of
the rudder. This is one problem I see with this geometry. The first part to
hit is the rudder, not the rear tie-down ring. My guess is that at some point
they redesigned something (like the gear) and didn't make the corresponding
change to the lower rudder line.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162125#162125
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: EXPERIMENTAL |
On Feb 2, 2008, at 11:01 PM, steve wrote:
> Where are you placing the required "EXPERIMENTAL" on your 601 ? I
> plan on the outside skin behind the pilot/passenger...inside the
> canopy....
>
> Steve W
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 15
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| Subject: | So-long and fairwell |
Hi people!
I have been a member of this group for over three years now. I have enjoyed
reading the digest every day! A few months ago, I realized that my current
financial responsibilities will not allow me to build and maintain an
aircraft at this time in my life. I have packed away my books, plans and
Corvair engine. The rudder still hangs in my shop. Perhaps someday, when the
kids move out I'll pull them out again and actually purchase a kit, but for
now, sadly, I have moved on to another project.
I just purchased a "new" 1963 Corvair convertible turbo Spyder. I will be
joining the local Corvair club and hope to meet new friends as good as you
all have been.
My best to you all! Keep on drillin' and pullin'.
Dave Thompson
Dave.thompson@verizon.net
Westminster, California
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: So-long and fairwell |
Hi Dave, Been there and done that with the kids. Don't worry, after they
finally leave , the wife has a whole new list going... Would you be interested
in selling your Corvair motor? I am your neighbor in North HB, a block away
from where Meadowlark airport once was.
Thanks
Joe Motis
Do not archive
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flight report & question-701 |
dkendle,
FYI, I put a 4 or 5" thin skateboard wheel on a thick "L" angle at the back
bottom of the fus and also put a tie-down point there. I hope this will keep
the rudder off the runway.
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dkandle
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 8:18 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flight report & question-701
>
>
>
> > My 701 tail also stays down if you push it to the ground and also
> > tries to climb very steeply on takeoff if I don't set the
> trim down. ...
> >
> > Can you tell us what engine you have, where does your empty
> CG fall,
> > and what is the weight of your 701? ...
> > Did you do much damage to your plane when the tail hit?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Les: I have a 912ULS and use a rather light Osprey battery
> located behind the seat (normal location). I don't have my
> paperwork in front of me, but my empty weight is about 590 lbs.
>
> No real damage was done. Just some scuff marks and a
> slightly bent rudder horn. I think I'll put a skid on the
> back. It also touched the rear lower part of the rudder.
> This is one problem I see with this geometry. The first part
> to hit is the rudder, not the rear tie-down ring. My guess
> is that at some point they redesigned something (like the
> gear) and didn't make the corresponding change to the lower
> rudder line.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162125#162125
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
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