Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:44 AM - Aerocarb for sale (annken100)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: 701 STOLvair update (Keith Ashcraft)
3. 07:25 AM - Re: Flying today (cookwithgas)
4. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Engine Mount (XL) (Juan Vega)
5. 09:09 AM - Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today (Matt Stecher)
6. 09:20 AM - Parking Brake for 701 Operations (Stanley Challgren)
7. 09:29 AM - Re: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today (cookwithgas)
8. 09:59 AM - Re: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today (Larry Winger)
9. 11:11 AM - Re: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today (Juan Vega)
10. 12:07 PM - Re: Flying today (eddies)
11. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Flying today (Craig Payne)
12. 01:30 PM - Re: Flying today (Sabrina)
13. 01:54 PM - 601 ready Continental C85 firewall Forward 5.9K (601corvair)
14. 02:06 PM - 701 Drawings, Manual, Tail Kit, and extras for sale (Kemter)
15. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: Flying today (David Downey)
16. 04:38 PM - Re: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today (Ron Lendon)
17. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Flying today (Juan Vega)
18. 05:08 PM - 701 VGs with slats (LarryMcFarland)
19. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Flying today (Bryan Martin)
20. 05:21 PM - Re: Flying today (Sabrina)
21. 05:45 PM - Plans Building 601 HD (Daryl)
22. 06:26 PM - Re: Plans Building 601 HD (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
23. 06:50 PM - Re: Plans Building 601 HD (Tim Shankland)
24. 06:54 PM - Re: Plans Building 601 HD (Ron Lendon)
25. 07:34 PM - Painting (steve)
26. 07:36 PM - Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3 (John Smith)
27. 08:38 PM - Re: Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3 (Craig Payne)
28. 08:47 PM - Re: Flying today (eddies)
29. 10:30 PM - Re: Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3 (John Smith)
30. 11:12 PM - Re: Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3 (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Aerocarb for sale |
I have a brand new never used aerocarb for sale. All documentation included.
$350 includes shipping to USA or Canada.
Ken
601xl/corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163268#163268
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| Subject: | Re: 701 STOLvair update |
Hi Gus,
I am interested in the weights/balances of things with the Corvair engine.
Do you have those numbers anywhere?
Keith
***************************************************************************
*
NYTerminat@aol.com<mailto:NYTerminat@aol.com> wrote:
Gus, That's really "dropping in" :) That looks like my first landing when
I pulled power instead of adding power because I wasn't used to the left ha
nd throttle. I am sure you know by now to keep in some power right to the e
nd or she will drop in. Good luck with the flight testing.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/ CH701/912S
In a message dated 2/7/2008 9:26:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, s_thatcher@
bellsouth.net<mailto:s_thatcher@bellsouth.net> writes:
<<There are 4 flights on the Corvair powered 701 since its first flight on
Feb. 2nd.>> See balance of comments below and at http://flywithgus.com/pag
e4.html
________________________________
Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.<h
ttp://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000
00002548>
--
*************************************
Keith Ashcraft
ITT Industries
Advanced Engineering & Sciences
5009 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO
80919
(719) 599-1787 -- work
(719) 332-4364 -- cell
keith.ashcraft@itt.com<mailto:keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
________________________________
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
zenithlist(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Could you let us know how much down adjustment on the horizontal stabilizer you
have at the moment relative the what is called for in Zenith's plans?
>
I have fiberglass tips on my stabilizer. There is not a horizontal surface on it
to determine perfect horizontal. This was the case when I installed it in the
first place. To answer your question (above) my suggestion is to install the
stabilizer as true to horizontal as possible, then fly it and adjust as necessary.
Alternatively if you have a heavier engine, then find horizontal the best you can
and tilt it forward 2 to 3 degrees, then fly, then adjust if necessary.
I think you are looking for exact measurements but I'm not sure where I can get
a point of reference from which to measure. Even if I made a copy of my brackets
and sent them to you, they probably wouldn't be right for your airplane.
Even if you use the same engine (Corvair), I built my own engine mount before
the WW mounts were available and my engine is 2-inches closer to the firewall
than engines with the store-bought units.
The best I can do is tell you that my front stabilizer brackets are practically
resting on the longerons and the rear brackets are an inch or so above the longerons.
The real answer is that it is easy to re-make the brackets and adjust as required
after you test-fly and then you can get it perfect.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163288#163288
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Engine Mount (XL) |
is that collective or per pad?
see if they can send you another one to test fit. sometimes ther are just bad
ones and just check by testing another one. ihad to jiggle mine on. i put the
fame on , then the engine, maybe that could work.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>
>Sent: Feb 9, 2008 8:30 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jabiru Engine Mount (XL)
>
>
>Juan,
>
>The mounting pads need to be spread about 7mm farther apart.
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on fuselage
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163219#163219
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today |
Hello everyone.
I usually lurk and soak up everyone else's wisdom, but this one I can help
with.
I have all the form blocks in cad (its what I do for a living and could not
help it). And a simple negative impression of the top half of the form will
let us lay it on top of the Horizontal Stabilizer to check the installed
angle.
I have attached a small jpeg file, but I can send the cad file to anyone
that wants it.
I think the process would be simply: Level Fuselage, Place Form and check
angle.
Two things:
1. The form airfoil shape would have to be increased by the skin thickness
so that it would lay correctly on the stabilizer.
2. The top edge just has to be parallel to the chord line of the airfoil for
this to work.
Happy Building and Flying,
Matt Stecher
Katy, TX ZenVair ~1%(maybe), Finishing my PP first
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
I think you are looking for exact measurements but I'm not sure where I can
get a point of reference from which to measure. Even if I made a copy of my
brackets and sent them to you, they probably wouldn't be right for your
airplane. Even if you use the same engine (Corvair), I built my own engine
mount before the WW mounts were available and my engine is 2-inches closer
to the firewall than engines with the store-bought units.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Parking Brake for 701 Operations |
Listees:
I did not have a parking brake on our 601 HDS and, always operating
from airfields, hardly ever saw the need for one. I am now installing
the brakes on my 701 and, since it will almost always be operated from
unprepared surfaces, wonder if a parking brake would be a useful
device to have?
Has anyone installed a parking brake, such as the Matco PVPV-1 ($114
from A/C Spruce), on their 701? If so, have you found it useful in
everyday operations?
Stan
N701VG (Reserved)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today |
Matt:
That is a great idea. Send me the drawing and I'll have it plotted full-size.
I can level up my airplane and let everyone know exactly where my stabilizer
currently lives. One word of caution - this will likely still be a starting point
since all airplanes are different.
Thanks,
Scott Laughlin
Wishin' I had Katy, Texas weather right now.
Omaha, Nebraska
www.cooknwithgas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163303#163303
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| Subject: | Re: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today |
Great idea, Matt. I was holding off on attaching the fiberglass tips, but
with this idea and CAD tool I think I'll rivet away!
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair
Working of fuselage
Do Not Archive
On Feb 10, 2008 9:03 AM, Matt Stecher <mrcc1234@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello everyone.
>
> I usually lurk and soak up everyone else's wisdom, but this one I can help
> with.
>
> I have all the form blocks in cad (its what I do for a living and could
> not
> help it). And a simple negative impression of the top half of the form
> will
> let us lay it on top of the Horizontal Stabilizer to check the installed
> angle.
>
> I have attached a small jpeg file, but I can send the cad file to anyone
> that wants it.
>
> I think the process would be simply: Level Fuselage, Place Form and check
> angle.
>
> Two things:
> 1. The form airfoil shape would have to be increased by the skin thickness
> so that it would lay correctly on the stabilizer.
> 2. The top edge just has to be parallel to the chord line of the airfoil
> for
> this to work.
>
> Happy Building and Flying,
> Matt Stecher
> Katy, TX ZenVair ~1%(maybe), Finishing my PP first
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> I think you are looking for exact measurements but I'm not sure where I
> can
> get a point of reference from which to measure. Even if I made a copy of
> my
> brackets and sent them to you, they probably wouldn't be right for your
> airplane. Even if you use the same engine (Corvair), I built my own
> engine
> mount before the WW mounts were available and my engine is 2-inches closer
> to the firewall than engines with the store-bought units.
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today |
another otion is to take the glass tip off and put L angle per the plans to level
the stab.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry Winger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 10, 2008 12:55 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today
>
>Great idea, Matt. I was holding off on attaching the fiberglass tips, but
>with this idea and CAD tool I think I'll rivet away!
>
>Larry Winger
>Tustin, CA
>601XL/Corvair
>Working of fuselage
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>On Feb 10, 2008 9:03 AM, Matt Stecher <mrcc1234@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> I usually lurk and soak up everyone else's wisdom, but this one I can help
>> with.
>>
>> I have all the form blocks in cad (its what I do for a living and could
>> not
>> help it). And a simple negative impression of the top half of the form
>> will
>> let us lay it on top of the Horizontal Stabilizer to check the installed
>> angle.
>>
>> I have attached a small jpeg file, but I can send the cad file to anyone
>> that wants it.
>>
>> I think the process would be simply: Level Fuselage, Place Form and check
>> angle.
>>
>> Two things:
>> 1. The form airfoil shape would have to be increased by the skin thickness
>> so that it would lay correctly on the stabilizer.
>> 2. The top edge just has to be parallel to the chord line of the airfoil
>> for
>> this to work.
>>
>> Happy Building and Flying,
>> Matt Stecher
>> Katy, TX ZenVair ~1%(maybe), Finishing my PP first
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> I think you are looking for exact measurements but I'm not sure where I
>> can
>> get a point of reference from which to measure. Even if I made a copy of
>> my
>> brackets and sent them to you, they probably wouldn't be right for your
>> airplane. Even if you use the same engine (Corvair), I built my own
>> engine
>> mount before the WW mounts were available and my engine is 2-inches closer
>> to the firewall than engines with the store-bought units.
>> Scott Laughlin
>> www.cooknwithgas.com
>>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
Hi Scott,
When you replaced the brackets, did you have to modify the cutout in the skin of
the rear turtle deck that the front of the horizontal stab sits in?
Also what if any modifications did you need to make to the fiber glass rudder fairing.
I am having the same issue, anything more than 10 degrees of flap and I cannot
trim for hands off on landing and I have the larger trim tab installed
Thanks
Eddie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163322#163322
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
Interesting. Eddie - don't you have the lighter (relative to the Corvair)
Jabiru 3300? The speculation was that changing the angle was related to
having a "heavy" engine. Of course Scott also has a BRS which partially
counteracts the engine weight.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eddies
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flying today
Hi Scott,
When you replaced the brackets, did you have to modify the cutout in the
skin of the rear turtle deck that the front of the horizontal stab sits in?
Also what if any modifications did you need to make to the fiber glass
rudder fairing.
I am having the same issue, anything more than 10 degrees of flap and I
cannot trim for hands off on landing and I have the larger trim tab
installed
Thanks
Eddie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163322#163322
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
Hello all,
I wish I knew the name of the person I met at Air Venture 2006 who first suggested
that I pitch the H-stab down. (He was retired, had built 2 HDs, the first
neutral, the second 2 down and 15 miles per hour faster with the same engine/prop
combination, and was an amazing person.) AMD would not confirm the "unofficial
rumor" that the stab had to be pitched down when installing an O-200A or
other heavy engine. Roger at Zenith thought it was a "good idea" but would
not take credit for it. 1-3 degrees is what I was told. 2 degrees worked great
for 1200 pounds at take off.
If the rear mount is modified, the elevator stops should be 'adjusted' as needed.
Be prepared to explain your math to the FAA or DAR if you are doing this before
certification, as I did.
Good luck all...
Sabrina
http://sabrina.aero Click "videos" in the lower right corner to see the build, WTTW segment, maiden flight videos of my E-LSA.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163337#163337
Message 13
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| Subject: | 601 ready Continental C85 firewall Forward 5.9K |
Continental C85
There is a running low time firewall forward engine and mount that will fit an
HD HDS or XL on ebay. Ive flown in this scratch built plane several years back.
This could be a sweet deal for some builder. He is also parting out the
plane. See ebay link below
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching&viewitem=&item=160206324275&_trksid=p3907.m32
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 14
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| Subject: | 701 Drawings, Manual, Tail Kit, and extras for sale |
My military duties continue to keep me much busier than I had hoped following my
redeployment from Afghanistan. My 701 project is now for sale to help finance
a completed aircraft. I have well over $2250 invested. Only asking $1300
for the following items:
1) Drawings ($380 new)
2) Construction Manual
3) Tail Kit ($1210 new plus $135 crating plus shipping):
Rudder - 95% done
Horizontal Stabilizer 90% done
Elevator not started
4) Tools: Clecoes, Hand riveter, Pneumatic riveter, Assorted drill bits.
5) Instruments: ASI ($120 new), VSI ($150 new), Bank indicator ($40 new), Lift
Reserve Indicator and Probe.
6) Media: Home Built Help Building Your 701 Rear Fuselage DVD, Zenith STOL series
DVD info package, William Wynne Conversion manual
Email me off list if interested.
Thanks.
Jim K.
San Antonio, TX
james(dot)kemter(at)us(dot)army(dot)mil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163342#163342
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
hey guys, do not lose sight of the fact that "heavy" or "light" engine means nothing
other than flying weight and the way the aircraft handles on the ground.
if the CG is the same - and it should be - when making comparisons, the trimming
will be the same. Unless the wings or stab are installed on the fuselage at
different baseline incidences, the engine weight should be a non-player. That
is why heavier engines will usually have a shorter mount or lighter engines
will have a longer mount - to equalize the installed moment.
Interesting. Eddie - don't you have the lighter (relative to the Corvair)
Jabiru 3300? The speculation was that changing the angle was related to
having a "heavy" engine. Of course Scott also has a BRS which partially
counteracts the engine weight.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eddies
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flying today
Hi Scott,
When you replaced the brackets, did you have to modify the cutout in the
skin of the rear turtle deck that the front of the horizontal stab sits in?
Also what if any modifications did you need to make to the fiber glass
rudder fairing.
I am having the same issue, anything more than 10 degrees of flap and I
cannot trim for hands off on landing and I have the larger trim tab
installed
Thanks
Eddie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163322#163322
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hor. Stabilizer Reference - was: Flying today |
I put the tooling holes (6T1-1) in all the ribs just for this reason. Everything
that went on the form was first located with these holes before trim/forming
the ribs. I haven't even made the stabilizer end caps yet, won't even make
them till after the stabilizer is located to the fuselage.
Now data, like the angle you (Scott) set it will be very helpful to me and others.
I will have pretty much the same engine setup as you. Haven't decided on
the BRS yet though, hope you have the ARM and Weight on all that HW also.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163378#163378
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
Dave,
actually thats not quite correct. If you have an engine that is a bt heavier,
the mount will only do so much. you still need the space between the engine and
the fire wal for other things like filter, carbi, etc. that is why some planes
carry the battery in back. the 601 needs the weight and balance, and even
though mine shows CG aft, it still needs a bit of back weight, with one guy
flying solo. With two people the CG and weight is more neutral.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Feb 10, 2008 6:29 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Flying today
>
>hey guys, do not lose sight of the fact that "heavy" or "light" engine means nothing
other than flying weight and the way the aircraft handles on the ground.
if the CG is the same - and it should be - when making comparisons, the trimming
will be the same. Unless the wings or stab are installed on the fuselage
at different baseline incidences, the engine weight should be a non-player. That
is why heavier engines will usually have a shorter mount or lighter engines
will have a longer mount - to equalize the installed moment.
>
>
>Interesting. Eddie - don't you have the lighter (relative to the Corvair)
>Jabiru 3300? The speculation was that changing the angle was related to
>having a "heavy" engine. Of course Scott also has a BRS which partially
>counteracts the engine weight.
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eddies
>Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:04 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flying today
>
>
>Hi Scott,
>
>When you replaced the brackets, did you have to modify the cutout in the
>skin of the rear turtle deck that the front of the horizontal stab sits in?
>
>Also what if any modifications did you need to make to the fiber glass
>rudder fairing.
>
>I am having the same issue, anything more than 10 degrees of flap and I
>cannot trim for hands off on landing and I have the larger trim tab
>installed
>
>Thanks
>Eddie
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163322#163322
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | 701 VGs with slats |
Hi guys,
The latest Zenith newsletter has an interesting article on VGs for the
701. It provides rather good images and data for takeoff, landing angles
and distances. The focus was limited to either slats or VGs or just no
slats. Hasnt anyone tried to find a best place for VGs with slats to
see if there might be an even better result?
Just a thought,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
I had to modify the bottom side of the cut out some for mine.
On Feb 10, 2008, at 3:03 PM, eddies wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> When you replaced the brackets, did you have to modify the cutout in
> the skin of the rear turtle deck that the front of the horizontal
> stab sits in?
>
> Also what if any modifications did you need to make to the fiber
> glass rudder fairing.
>
> I am having the same issue, anything more than 10 degrees of flap
> and I cannot trim for hands off on landing and I have the larger
> trim tab installed
>
> Thanks
> Eddie
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
If you were to review the empty CGs of the "heavy" engine aircraft and compare
them to the empty CGs of the light engines (all with factory designed engine mounts)
you will find that they are nose heavy or have a more forward empty CG
(often nearing max. forward CG) as compared to the "light" engine craft. AMD
could have done a better job designing the O-200 engine mount that Zenith sells--they
have it a little too far forward. If you carry maximum baggage in back,
you need it, but otherwise, it creates a "nose heavy" airplane that many people
have a hard time trimming. Look firsthand at some AMD S-LSAs out there,
there is no way those H stabs are neutral. If you still don't believe, measure
the rise of the nose strut top stop plate on two craft of the same age (same
bungee age). The heavy engine stop plate is raised, the light engine craft
are not raised as much and are often "topped out."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163389#163389
Message 21
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| Subject: | Plans Building 601 HD |
Hello!
My name is Daryl and I am considering building the 601 HD. I cannot afford
the kit right now...even in stages. I would like to hear from those who are
building from plans about the actual costs involved. The Jan 2008 issue of
kitplanes lists completion cost from $8k to $45k.
Thanks for your feedback!
Daryl
Sacramento, CA
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Plans Building 601 HD |
Hi Daryl, I am building a 601HD from plans. I got the long parts from Zenith
so I did not need a large brake. I also do not weld so had to pay for some
of that. I got the engine and propeller for a real good price. I am using gull
doors. I still need the wheels and brakes along with inst. and radio. I have
spend about $8000.00 so far. I would suggest you plan on spending around
$10000.00 to $20000.00 and 10000 fun hours. Take your time and enjoy building
soon. Jerry of GA
In a message dated 2/10/2008 8:46:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
daryl@rictor.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Daryl" <daryl@rictor.org>
Hello!
My name is Daryl and I am considering building the 601 HD. I cannot afford
the kit right now...even in stages. I would like to hear from those who are
building from plans about the actual costs involved. The Jan 2008 issue of
kitplanes lists completion cost from $8k to $45k.
Thanks for your feedback!
Daryl
Sacramento, CA
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Plans Building 601 HD |
Daryl,
I plans build my 601HD, it's flying now, you can do a tremendous
amount of building for very little money. I just went back and added up
my raw aluminum purchases over the eight years of my building and the
total is a little over $2000, your price might vary. The important thing
is that a few hundred dollars worth of aluminum can keep you busy for
months. I did buy out another builder for the landing gear brakes and a
few bulkheads and I bought all the long parts ( 8 foot etc.) from
Zenith. The real cost come when you add the engine and when you cut
though holes in the instrument panel and fill them with expensive
goodies. The point is if you are cost constrained for a little
investment in aluminum you can be working for a long time while you look
for bargains for engine and instruments and save your money.
Tim Shankland
Daryl wrote:
>
>Hello!
>
>My name is Daryl and I am considering building the 601 HD. I cannot afford
>the kit right now...even in stages. I would like to hear from those who are
>building from plans about the actual costs involved. The Jan 2008 issue of
>kitplanes lists completion cost from $8k to $45k.
>
>Thanks for your feedback!
>
>Daryl
>Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Plans Building 601 HD |
I am building the XL but here are my costs to date since 2005 when I began preparing
the facilities.
1100 Avionics
275 Electrical
262 Empennage
2921 Engine
5346 Facilities
708 Miscellaneous
395 Plans
4227 Shop Supplies (materials & essential tools)
4367 Tools
2350 Wings
21951 Total so far for all
11535 Total for Airplane so far.
Now realize this is over a period of 3 years and your costs will most likely be
similar or less.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163406#163406
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I m having real fun painting my 601 XL.
I used aluma prep, Alodine and now in the process of applying epoxy
primer. Man its a job..
I forgot how much work it is to get a good paint job.
Even tho I have done my homework, I still get runs and fish eyes in the
primer. I figured that the primer is a good practice session....
Any good suggestions on "tricks of the trade " ??
Steve W
Almost, almost , almost done.....
Message 26
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| Subject: | Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3 |
Just when I thought things are going well with my 601XL building project, I managed
to cut the tube frame B3 (6B21-2) too short. :( I could pay someone to
weld the cut off parts and try again or forming a new tube frame to get a small
taste of scratch builders do. How would one go about forming the tube frame
with basic hand tools?
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3 |
It isn't hard to bend one - even a kit builder like me did it. Much easier
than trying to weld the spoiled part. Take a look at Larry McFarland's site.
Click on "Fuselage" in the list on the left and scroll down about halfway in
the photos.
www.macsmachine.com
Make a form block based on the dimensions in the plans. The you will also
need a smaller radius block (maybe 6 inches of radius) due to the
spring-back of the tubing. Keep the tube extra long so you have something to
grab - maybe an extra foot on each end. To keep the tube from collapsing I
filled mine with sand held in by two rubber corks held on by duct tape. Do
the initial bend around the form from the plans. Then use it as a template
and use the smaller radius block to tighten the radius. Put a mark on the
center of the tubing and at the center of the tube to keep them aligned.
Work from the center out in both directions. At the tightest parts of the
bend I had to make a third form block with a radius of about 3-4 inches. If
you bend too far you can unbend using the same kind of blocks and C clamps.
Work slowly and in small increments. After I had everything set up and was
practiced I did a bow in under two hours.
If you want I can send you photos of how I did mine. I used Larry's approach
but didn't have any castors.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Smith
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3
Just when I thought things are going well with my 601XL building project, I
managed to cut the tube frame B3 (6B21-2) too short. :( I could pay
someone to weld the cut off parts and try again or forming a new tube frame
to get a small taste of scratch builders do. How would one go about forming
the tube frame with basic hand tools?
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Flying today |
Hi Guys,
There is another 601XL just recently flying out of my airport with a Jab 3300,
this Zodiac has the gear flat to the front giving a more forward CG and it requires
even more trim to fly strait and level, so I am guessing that this will
be a common issue. (Both have the large trim tab fitted)
My only concern with the change was having to cut the rear turtle deck and also
modify the fiber glass rudder saddle, only because I have already painted the
plane :(
Eddie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163430#163430
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| Subject: | Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3 |
Yes, send me any additional photos/instructions you have. Is 3/4" thick plywood
sufficient material to make forming block?
Thanks
Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
It isnt hard to bend one even a kit builder like me did it. Much easier
than trying to weld the spoiled part. Take a look at Larry McFarlands site.
Click on Fuselage in the list on the left and scroll down about halfway in
the photos.
www.macsmachine.com
Make a form block based on the dimensions in the plans. The you will also need
a smaller radius block (maybe 6 inches of radius) due to the spring-back of
the tubing. Keep the tube extra long so you have something to grab maybe an extra
foot on each end. To keep the tube from collapsing I filled mine with sand
held in by two rubber corks held on by duct tape. Do the initial bend around
the form from the plans. Then use it as a template and use the smaller radius
block to tighten the radius. Put a mark on the center of the tubing and at the
center of the tube to keep them aligned. Work from the center out in both directions.
At the tightest parts of the bend I had to make a third form block with
a radius of about 3-4 inches. If you bend too far you can unbend using the
same kind of blocks and C clamps. Work slowly and in small increments. After
I had everything set up and was practiced I did a bow in under two hours.
If you want I can send you photos of how I did mine. I used Larrys approach but
didnt have any castors.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Smith
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3
Just when I thought things are going well with my 601XL building project, I
managed to cut the tube frame B3 (6B21-2) too short. :( I could pay someone
to weld the cut off parts and try again or forming a new tube frame to get a
small taste of scratch builders do. How would one go about forming the tube frame
with basic hand tools?
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
---------------------------------
Message 30
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| Subject: | Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3 |
I suppose plywood would work but I used 5/8th inch particle board. Something
harder for the smaller radius form blocks might be better as the edges
started to mash down towards the end of the operation. I worry about the
edge of the plywood delaminating and splintering. It actually doesn't have
to be the thickness of the tube because (it being a tube) it only contacts
the form along a line. I spaced my forms off of the table with some scrap
1/4 inch particle board. But you do want the top of the big form to be even
with (or above) the top of the tube so you can add on a top plate larger
than the form to make a channel that holds the tube down when you make the
initial bend.
Here is a quote from an old message I sent:
"You can do the initial bend on the form by just grabbing the ends and
pulling. This may take two people as the tube is so long. But due to
spring-back you will have to use a tighter radius form to bring it to final
shape. So after the first bend the form is just your template. I started
with a 10 inch radius but had to finish the ends with a 5-6 inch radius. You
might be able to skip the sand if your forms support the circular
cross-section of the tube but why make the potentially expensive experiment?
I just filled mine with sand, plugged both ends with some rubber stoppers
from Home Depot held on with duct tape.
For me the process that worked best was to mark off sections on the tube
with matching marks on the form and work on sections proceeding from the
center of the tube toward the ends. That way you aren't trying to adjust
bends all over. If you overbend you *can* correct. Just don't do it too
often in a given section as you will start work-hardening the tube. After a
few bends I was able to get a feel for the spring-back."
Also search the archives on "bend tube". I received a lot of advice around
November of 2006. Everyone has their own variation on the general technique.
I'll send the pictures direct.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Smith
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:26 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3
Yes, send me any additional photos/instructions you have. Is 3/4" thick
plywood sufficient material to make forming block?
Thanks
Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
It isn't hard to bend one - even a kit builder like me did it. Much easier
than trying to weld the spoiled part. Take a look at Larry McFarland's site.
Click on "Fuselage" in the list on the left and scroll down about halfway in
the photos.
www.macsmachine.com <http://www.macsmachine.com/>
Make a form block based on the dimensions in the plans. The you will also
need a smaller radius block (maybe 6 inches of radius) due to the
spring-back of the tubing. Keep the tube extra long so you have something to
grab - maybe an extra foot on each end. To keep the tube from collapsing I
filled mine with sand held in by two rubber corks held on by duct tape. Do
the initial bend around the form from the plans. Then use it as a template
and use the smaller radius block to tighten the radius. Put a mark on the
center of the tubing and at the center of the tube to keep them aligned.
Work from the center out in both directions. At the tightest parts of the
bend I had to make a third form block with a radius of about 3-4 inches. If
you bend too far you can unbend using the same kind of blocks and C clamps.
Work slowly and in small increments. After I had everything set up and was
practiced I did a bow in under two hours.
If you want I can send you photos of how I did mine. I used Larry's approach
but didn't have any castors.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Smith
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Forming Turtle Neck Tube Frame B3
Just when I thought things are going well with my 601XL building project, I
managed to cut the tube frame B3 (6B21-2) too short. :( I could pay
someone to weld the cut off parts and try again or forming a new tube frame
to get a small taste of scratch builders do. How would one go about forming
the tube frame with basic hand tools?
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
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