---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/12/08: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (Debo Cox) 2. 04:10 AM - Sun-N-Fun BBQ 08 (ZodieRocket) 3. 05:48 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (William Dominguez) 4. 06:07 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (Ron Lendon) 5. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: larger trim tab (MacDonald Doug) 6. 08:19 AM - Small Alternator (LRM) 7. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Flying today (Jerry Latimer) 8. 09:18 AM - Going to SnF 2008? poll (Ron Lendon) 9. 09:38 AM - Re: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab (Jerry Latimer) 10. 09:48 AM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (cookwithgas) 11. 09:51 AM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (Trainnut01@aol.com) 12. 10:02 AM - Re: 13 year old builder (Sabrina) 13. 10:23 AM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (Jerry Hey) 14. 10:36 AM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (Bryan Martin) 15. 10:58 AM - Re: 13 year old builder (kmccune) 16. 11:09 AM - Re: larger trim tab (Gig Giacona) 17. 11:27 AM - Re: 13 year old builder (eddies) 18. 12:57 PM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (ernie) 19. 01:05 PM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (annken100) 20. 02:05 PM - "chicago2paris" (Craig Payne) 21. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: 13 year old builder (David Downey) 22. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: larger trim tab (David Downey) 23. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (Bill Pagan) 24. 02:51 PM - Re: 13 year old builder (Sabrina) 25. 04:52 PM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (william Clapp) 26. 04:53 PM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (Juan Vega) 27. 05:16 PM - Re: 13 year old builder (akok) 28. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (Dan) 29. 07:11 PM - Re: 13 year old builder (Sabrina) 30. 07:13 PM - Re: Hole Flanging (Ron Lalonde) 31. 07:30 PM - Re: 13 year old builder (Tim Juhl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:45 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hole Flanging Hey Ron! In the Zenith Construction Standards Manual that you can download as a PDF file from the "Builders" section of the Zenith web site, there's a section that gives acceptable standards of what a good flange should look like. I found it helpful - sounds like what you may be looking for too. Good luck! Debo Cox Nags Head, NC XL/Corvair www.mykitlog.com/debo do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:54 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ 08 4th Annual Webmasters BBQ Last year was the largest event ever ! In the first week of registration I had over 80 people signed up, Sun-N-Fun 2007 was the Biggest Zenith event ever !! With over 200 people in attendence. So Far only 60 people have signed up, I need your help folks! The sign up is so that I can judge attendence and ensure that we have enough food for everyone, Please, Please take a few seconds to sign up. Surely we can make this Sun-N-Fun event even bigger. For those of you who have never attended please visit the link to view pictures and discover what it is all about. Welcome to the 2008 BBQ sign up, Please take the time to visit HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org and HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com/"www.ch701.com for the sign up sheet. This will be for your name tag and will be your ticket for the cooks to provide you with a great dinner. Plus this event is getting very large and I need an idea on how much food to buy so that we feed everyone and don't run out! Lets make it bigger this year, I have more give a ways, the first 50 people with a pre-registered name badge will receive a gift. Limit one per family please. Thanks cdngoose Don=92t Miss Sun-N-Fun 2008 Thursday April 10th 2008 Last Years Sponsors were/ No Sponsors for this year yet. Jabiru USA William Wynne from HYPERLINK "http://www.flycorvair.com"www.flycorvair.com HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/BBQ/28055.jpg"HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/BBQ/601aug2.jpg" HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/BBQ/Sun-N-Fun%20BBQ%20pics/BBQ06/grace.jpg" HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/Scratch.htm"HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/Glass_Panel.htm"HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/The912Competition.htm"HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/Rear_Fuselage.htm"HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/912.htm" HYPERLINK "http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/index.html"Quality Sport Planes Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com 2/11/2008 5:28 PM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:51 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hole Flanging My dies are also made of wood and after I use them, I have to do a little more work to get it right. In my experience, after using the die, the rib web gets bowed inward, as you can see in this picture: http://picasaweb.google.com/billdomg/Wings/photo#5157577591804484914 Scott Laughlin gave me an idea that lead me to do this: http://picasaweb.google.com/billdomg/Wings/photo#5157577600394419522 I used the improvised tool in the picture to bend the flange a bit further down until the rib web get straight and it worked well: http://picasaweb.google.com/billdomg/Wings/photo#5157577613279321426 The good news is that it no only got straight but the web feels stronger too, oil canning effect was reduced to almost nothing. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom/ I just finished doing the flanging on the lightening holes on the wing and nose ribs. My dies were made of hardwood. How much strength are the hole flanges designed for, if any. It seems like the wing ribs are still a bit flimsy. Is there a way to tell if the flanges are made ok. I really didnt want to make the flanges to big and stress the aluminum in any way. Is there a possibility that my flanges arent (bent/flanged enough) and do not provide the required strenght.?? Thanks in advance for your help. Ron Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163615#163615 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hole Flanging From: "Ron Lendon" I had the same crowning issue on the rear ribs and followed Scott's lead and just added L-angles to all the rear ribs. http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=1683&log 273&row=253 -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163658#163658 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:54 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: larger trim tab Remeber David, the servo is mounted fairly close to the hinge line and only the rod goes out to the tab. I would think a trim system that runs cables from the cockpit would be heavier than the electric unit from Ray Allen. Take these comments with a grain of salt though since I am a 701 builder and only dreaming of an XL in the future. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada --- David Downey wrote: > Hey Gig; > > I mean absolutely no disrespect but I have spent 35 > years in the aircraft design, development, and test > world. Flutter can never be ruled out on any surface > with any degree of freedom - especially unbalanced > or underbalanced hinged surfaces. In those cases > adding weight aft of the hinge is a definite recipe > for "new" issues to rear their heads. > > I would agree with you to the extent that I have > seen no evidence of a susceptibility on the XL > though. Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:58 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Zenith-List: Small Alternator I have been looking for a small light weigh alternator and finally found one at a reasonable price. It weighs 5.5 lbs, $119. Check here, http://www.dnlauto.com/proddetail.asp?prod=12180n Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:04 AM PST US From: "Jerry Latimer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Flying today Nice videos Jerry do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:26 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flying today Hello all, I wish I knew the name of the person I met at Air Venture 2006 who first suggested that I pitch the H-stab down. (He was retired, had built 2 HDs, the first neutral, the second 2 down and 15 miles per hour faster with the same engine/prop combination, and was an amazing person.) AMD would not confirm the "unofficial rumor" that the stab had to be pitched down when installing an O-200A or other heavy engine. Roger at Zenith thought it was a "good idea" but would not take credit for it. 1-3 degrees is what I was told. 2 degrees worked great for 1200 pounds at take off. If the rear mount is modified, the elevator stops should be 'adjusted' as needed. Be prepared to explain your math to the FAA or DAR if you are doing this before certification, as I did. Good luck all... Sabrina http://sabrina.aero Click "videos" in the lower right corner to see the build, WTTW segment, maiden flight videos of my E-LSA. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163337#163337 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Going to SnF 2008? poll From: "Ron Lendon" Are you going to Sun N Fun 2008? Add to the poll, let's get a count. do not archive -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163684#163684 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:01 AM PST US From: "Jerry Latimer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab Super Cubs do it this way also. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab --> Isn't that the way a Mooney does it? -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab Pitch trim in my Kitfox is via an actuator that moves the entire horizontal stab. Full deflection on the leading edge is several inches up and down. Obviously it is NOT a 601, however what it tells me is that the minor changes you are talking about will probably not dramatically affect the planes handling to the point of dangerous. But if you overdo it you may have to use heavier than normal stick force if you go the wrong way with your change and can't compensate with trim. There's always variation from airplane to airplane, minor changes to the horiz. stab incidence to adjust the trim is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Just go a little at a time and you'll be ok. Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163558#163558 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:48 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll From: "cookwithgas" Yes Scott Laughlin Omaha, Nebraska Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163691#163691 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:12 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Going to SnF 2008? poll yes Carroll do not archive **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:06 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 13 year old builder From: "Sabrina" If the craft had failed the MISO inspection, so long as it had the "Amateur Built" warning, it was still possible to register it as an amateur built after inspection by the FSDO. Once it passed MISO inspection, the "Amateur Built" warning could be removed, leaving only the "Experimental" warning. One key benefit is that I can give the airplane to my dad for his birthday, and as a "subsequent" owner, he can conduct E-LSA conditional inspections after going through a 16 hour course at EAA HQ and applying for/receiving an E-LSA repairman certificate from the FAA. I think amateur builts can only be conditionally inspected by the original builder and not subsequent owners. Since I am only 14, I could not apply for the repairman certificate on an amateur built anyhow. I cannot thank all of you out there enough for all of your help over the years. I asked most of you just one question or two, so as not to bother you too much. As the WTTW segment points out, I could not have done it without you! N5886Q--the aeroplane the internet built! http://sabrina.aero P.S. Zenith is OK with the name and my modifications. They lovingly call it the XL SE (Sabrina Edition). (Back in early 2006, they were the only kit mfg. open to idea of a 12 year old building their airplane.) Zenith rules! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163693#163693 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:51 AM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Going to SnF 2008? poll Yes, Plan to start 701 in spring. Jerry Hey On Feb 12, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Ron Lendon wrote: > > Are you going to Sun N Fun 2008? Add to the poll, let's get a count. > > do not archive > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163684#163684 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:05 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Going to SnF 2008? poll Maybe, depends on my work schedule. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 13 year old builder From: "kmccune" I am impressed Sabrina! Kevin -------- Kevin N701DZ Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163711#163711 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: larger trim tab From: "Gig Giacona" Not an aircraft design engineer but I have been flying about 30 years and in the majority of aircraft I have flown there has been some sort of unbalanced trim system back on the elevator. I'd date say that the RAC servo probably weighs less than the extra AL, hinge and rivets that make up the trim tab to begin with and since I have the original smaller tab it probably weighs less than the larger tab without the servo. Let's also keep in mind that CH designed that servo and into the system in the first place. And finally there are a metric butt load of 601s and 701s out there and not a word about elevator flutter caused by the weight of the servo or for any other reason. planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote: > Hey Gig; > > I mean absolutely no disrespect but I have spent 35 years in the aircraft design, development, and test world. Flutter can never be ruled out on any surface with any degree of freedom - especially unbalanced or underbalanced hinged surfaces. In those cases adding weight aft of the hinge is a definite recipe for "new" issues to rear their heads. > > I would agree with you to the extent that I have seen no evidence of a susceptibility on the XL though. > > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163713#163713 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 13 year old builder From: "eddies" Hi Sabrina, Fantastic effort, love what you did with the instruments and the center console, whats the next project going to be? Eddie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163718#163718 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:02 PM PST US From: ernie Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Going to SnF 2008? poll Yes Do not archive On Feb 12, 2008 9:16 AM, Ron Lendon wrote: > > Are you going to Sun N Fun 2008? Add to the poll, let's get a count. > > do not archive > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163684#163684 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:11 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll From: "annken100" Yup, I'll be there. Only for the weekend though. Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163736#163736 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:52 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: "chicago2paris" Hey Sabrina, Given your "chicago2paris" handle this might give you some ideas: http://www.earthrounders.com -- Craig ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:34 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 13 year old builder Hi Sabrina; Is there a more extensive website that the summary page or just that and the videos on YouTube? I am still blown away by your accomplishments - and I am 52! If the craft had failed the MISO inspection, so long as it had the "Amateur Built" warning, it was still possible to register it as an amateur built after inspection by the FSDO. Once it passed MISO inspection, the "Amateur Built" warning could be removed, leaving only the "Experimental" warning. One key benefit is that I can give the airplane to my dad for his birthday, and as a "subsequent" owner, he can conduct E-LSA conditional inspections after going through a 16 hour course at EAA HQ and applying for/receiving an E-LSA repairman certificate from the FAA. I think amateur builts can only be conditionally inspected by the original builder and not subsequent owners. Since I am only 14, I could not apply for the repairman certificate on an amateur built anyhow. I cannot thank all of you out there enough for all of your help over the years. I asked most of you just one question or two, so as not to bother you too much. As the WTTW segment points out, I could not have done it without you! N5886Q--the aeroplane the internet built! http://sabrina.aero P.S. Zenith is OK with the name and my modifications. They lovingly call it the XL SE (Sabrina Edition). (Back in early 2006, they were the only kit mfg. open to idea of a 12 year old building their airplane.) Zenith rules! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163693#163693 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:34 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: larger trim tab well taken Gig. Not an aircraft design engineer but I have been flying about 30 years and in the majority of aircraft I have flown there has been some sort of unbalanced trim system back on the elevator. I'd date say that the RAC servo probably weighs less than the extra AL, hinge and rivets that make up the trim tab to begin with and since I have the original smaller tab it probably weighs less than the larger tab without the servo. Let's also keep in mind that CH designed that servo and into the system in the first place. And finally there are a metric butt load of 601s and 701s out there and not a word about elevator flutter caused by the weight of the servo or for any other reason. planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote: > Hey Gig; > > I mean absolutely no disrespect but I have spent 35 years in the aircraft design, development, and test world. Flutter can never be ruled out on any surface with any degree of freedom - especially unbalanced or underbalanced hinged surfaces. In those cases adding weight aft of the hinge is a definite recipe for "new" issues to rear their heads. > > I would agree with you to the extent that I have seen no evidence of a susceptibility on the XL though. > > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163713#163713 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:57 PM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll I'll be there Yes Scott Laughlin Omaha, Nebraska Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163691#163691 Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 13 year old builder From: "Sabrina" Some of you have written direct e-mails to me asking me a lot of questions When did I first start flying? February 28, 2003 at PWK, age 9 Where did I get the 150? Grandpa did not realize it was a real airplane until it was too late. (Some large RC models cost nearly that much.) 10th birthday present. When did my dad first start flying? When I was 11. (To fly me to Canada) Where is the actual Amateur-Built sticker that was removed from N5886Q? It was given to the Nobel Laureate (in physics) who signed the aircraft (for good luck) after the certification but before the first flight. Why the redesign of the panel? My mom falls asleep and wont wake up and keeps her feet on the Cessnas rudder pedals, the Sabrina Mark 1 has a foot rest above the pedals for her. Why the headrests? To have a handle to get into and out of the airplane. What are the headrests? 2003 VW for $7.50 each on E-Bay Why Canada? They issue medical certificates to 11 year olds. Longest Solo? 5 hours total time t/o to touchdown (with stops.) Where did I get the money for the airplane? I sold my high school car, a 2004 Corvette that just sat in the garage waiting for me to turn 15 at Carmax for $32,000. How much did it cost to build the airplane, total? $28,000 + $4,000 in tools. To whomever sent the Dynon D180 to my home? Thank you! To whomever sent the seven grey Scottish cow hides to my home? Thank you! To whomever sent all those Rolls Royce parts to my home? Thank you! If I am forgetting anyone Thank you! Do I still believe in Santa Claus? You bet! I hope to meet all those who helped me, all those who inspired me and many new friends at AirVenture 2008! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163752#163752 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:29 PM PST US From: william Clapp Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Going to SnF 2008? poll I hope to be there to visit - Bill Clapp - KR/Corvair Are you going to Sun N Fun 2008? Add to the poll, let's get a count. do not archive -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163684#163684 Bill Clapp - KR2S builder and pilot Valdosta GA www.billclapp.com --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:17 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Going to SnF 2008? poll juan will be there! -----Original Message----- >From: ernie >Sent: Feb 12, 2008 3:53 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Going to SnF 2008? poll > >Yes >Do not archive > >On Feb 12, 2008 9:16 AM, Ron Lendon wrote: > >> >> Are you going to Sun N Fun 2008? Add to the poll, let's get a count. >> >> do not archive >> >> -------- >> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163684#163684 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 13 year old builder From: "akok" Wow I'm impressed. How do you like the open space around the center console? Is there any negative structural impact from not having a traditional instrument panel? if so, how did you compensate for that? -------- -- Andr Kok do not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163772#163772 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:00 PM PST US From: Dan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll Maybe next year. Dan Wilde ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 13 year old builder From: "Sabrina" Is there any negative structural impact from not having a traditional instrument panel? if so, how did you compensate for that? Zenith helped with the solution, ask or have someone ask for you about the details at Air Venture--I will be there 7 or 8 days. The videos show how the dash panel was replaced with other components. The buzz aero pump needed and used those new components for support as well. In all, just those the parts added over 10 pounds of weight to the aircraft. That was the biggest trade off. Overall, it is 90 pounds heavier than the AMD. That 90 includes the above mentioned components as well as 4 gallons of unusable fuel, 5 quarts of oil, the paint, the 3" prop spacer, the headrests/their supports, the true tuck and roll leather, the fire extinguisher, closed cell flotation device seat cores, key-less transponder starter system with manual override, genuine aviation spark plugs, heat/fresh air mixer box, monroy traffic detector, CO detector, red/white LED cabin/map lights, carpet, etc. The one benefit from spreading that much weight around, is that it prevents the aircraft from becoming too forward CG when a 100 pound pilot flies it with full fuel and no baggage. Both my parents would fit, with full fuel but with only 25 pounds of baggage. Not great, but hey, the roominess, the ability to stretch out, slip off your loafers, adjust your head rest up, down, forward, back and be able to see your toes resting upon and against the padded butter soft English leather as a perfect mix of air flows out on each side, kinda like flying British Air First Class to Paris on a 777. Hopefully they come to visit me often while I am at university--that is why I built the airplane. Not to haul baggage, to build an airplane my parents would use to visit me, hopefully often. Most people sit in their airplane and go BBBB BBBB, in this one I go ZZZ ZZZ. I had better stick to my trusty 150 when I fly! That could be a new topic: Has the reclined seating position of the Zenith ever put a PIC to sleep? Would they admit that? Were any cited in the recently released NASA reports? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163786#163786 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:28 PM PST US From: Ron Lalonde Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hole Flanging Thanks William and Debo for your replies. Debo, I looked up the construction sheet for the dies and brought it to a m achinist today. William, I used the flanging dies made of wood and I experienced the same p roblem as you did. The rib webs were bowed. I however had another problem in that my flanges w ere not as wide as they should have been...I think I should have used a pre ss instead of hammering on them. The seemed uneven and not centered perfect ly. Anyways, I think that I am going to have a set of steel dies made, redo th e flanges by repeating the process. Hopefull will be perfectly "pressed" this time with a stronger die being used. If I run into the bowed problem e ven after this is done, I will use the "hardwood stick" that Scott suggeste d. Thanks again guys for your help. I sure do not want to have to redo a new set of wing ribs, as you well know, this is a heck of a lot of work!!! Thanks again, your help is much appreciated. Ron Lalonde 601XL, Plans 6510 Tail completed, working on wings Nova Scotia, Canada enith-List: Hole FlangingTo: zenith-list@matronics.comMy dies are also made of wood and after I use them, I have to do a little more work to get it ri ght. In my experience, after using the die, the rib web gets bowed inward, as you can see in this picture:http://picasaweb.google.com/billdomg/Wings/p hoto#5157577591804484914Scott Laughlin gave me an idea that lead me to do t his:http://picasaweb.google.com/billdomg/Wings/photo#5157577600394419522I u sed the improvised tool in the picture to bend the flange a bit further dow n until the rib web get straight and it worked well: http://picasaweb.googl e.com/billdomg/Wings/photo#5157577613279321426The good news is that it no o nly got straight but the web feels stronger too, oil canning effect was red uced to almost nothing.William DominguezZodiac 601XL PlansMiami Floridahttp ://www.geocities.com/bill_dom/rlalonde wrote: ==================== _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 13 year old builder From: "Tim Juhl" I am truly humbled, and that doesn't happen too often. Reading the mail on her previous posts (H tail) I concluded that Sabrina was at the very least and engineering student in college or the like. To find out that she is 13 years old literally made my jaw drop. Looking at her XL just had me shaking my head. Sabrina... I taught high school science for 34 years and had the pleasure of working with some great kids. I must say however that I never met anyone that had accomplished so much at so young an age. You are to be congratulated and I look forward to hearing of your further exploits. For an old timer like myself there is no chance of ever making it to space but you surely will if that is your goal. For the rest of you, next time you start to complain about the younger generation remember Sabrina. Tim Juhl -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163791#163791 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.