Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:44 AM - Re: Adding an opening window on a 701 (kmccune)
2. 04:59 AM - Hole flanging (Brett Hanley)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: Hole flanging (ROBERT SCEPPA)
4. 06:12 AM - Re: corvair core available (ashontz)
5. 06:23 AM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (dgardea(at)gmail.com)
6. 06:33 AM - Re: Hole flanging (John Short)
7. 06:56 AM - Dynon EFIS battery (GLJSOJ1)
8. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Flutter Once Again (Jim McBurney)
9. 08:25 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (ashontz)
10. 08:27 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (ashontz)
11. 08:31 AM - Re: Exact measurement (ashontz)
12. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Flutter Once Again (Craig Payne)
13. 09:16 AM - Exact measurement (Beckman, Rick)
14. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (LarryMcFarland)
15. 09:26 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (MacDonald Doug)
16. 09:28 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS battery (Dave Johnson)
17. 09:28 AM - Re: Exact measurement (ashontz)
18. 09:32 AM - Re: Exact measurement (ashontz)
19. 09:39 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS battery (Gig Giacona)
20. 09:41 AM - Re: Flutter Once Again (Gig Giacona)
21. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Flutter Once Again (Bill Steer)
22. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Hole Flanging (Randy L. Thwing)
23. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
24. 10:51 AM - Re: Exact measurement (ashontz)
25. 11:13 AM - Re: Exact measurement (PatrickW)
26. 11:30 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS battery (Martin Pohl)
27. 11:30 AM - Re: Exact measurement (ashontz)
28. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Flutter Once Again (Craig Payne)
29. 12:20 PM - Re: 701 VGs with slats (milreed)
30. 12:39 PM - Re: Flutter Once Again (Gig Giacona)
31. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (steve)
32. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: Hole Flanging (Jaybannist@cs.com)
33. 01:25 PM - Navaid Devices (Herb Heaton)
34. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Once Again (Robert Taylor)
35. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (Terry Phillips)
36. 03:28 PM - SnF2008 (Brad Cohen)
37. 04:18 PM - For Sale (Bill Pagan)
38. 05:27 PM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (David Downey)
39. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: corvair core available (David Downey)
40. 07:19 PM - Re: Hole Flanging (Ron Lendon)
41. 07:29 PM - Re: SnF2008 (Ron Lendon)
42. 11:09 PM - Re: Rudder cable tension (chrisoz@bmail.com.au)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Adding an opening window on a 701 |
Could you post pictures of this set up. I assume from your comment regarding your
photographer that you open it during flight?
Thanks
Kevin
--------
Kevin
N701DZ Reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163971#163971
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Sometimes I think this list just makes a lot of people paranoid. No matter what
one suggests there is an expert out there on the list that will tell you it will
not work. The best thing a builder can do for himself is to find a few mentors
that have been there and done that. People that have studied the material
and know the rules of safe practice. Follow their advice and take all other
advice with a grain of salt. Then get the books and educate yourself. That's
what it is all about, learning.
When I started building my 701 eight years ago there was not near the information
available on the web as there is today. I was using an old set of 4TH edition
plans. In the plans where a set of drawings on how to make the flange blocks.
I just got some hardwood and turned them up on a wood lathe myself. It
was the first time I had used a wood lathe since high school. It took me an
entire afternoon to make the set of three. I just took my time and and made
them accurate. They worked great in a press. I flanged all my holes in about
an hour. Those same wood dies are still in use today. They have flanged the
holes for at least four planes. They still work perfectly even though one cracked
on the first hole it flanged. Wood will work.
Brett
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hole flanging |
> Totaly agree with Brett
--- Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sometimes I think this list just makes a lot of
> people paranoid. No matter what one suggests there
> is an expert out there on the list that will tell
> you it will not work. The best thing a builder can
> do for himself is to find a few mentors that have
> been there and done that. People that have studied
> the material and know the rules of safe practice.
> Follow their advice and take all other advice with a
> grain of salt. Then get the books and educate
> yourself. That's what it is all about, learning.
>
> When I started building my 701 eight years ago
> there was not near the information available on the
> web as there is today. I was using an old set of
> 4TH edition plans. In the plans where a set of
> drawings on how to make the flange blocks. I just
> got some hardwood and turned them up on a wood lathe
> myself. It was the first time I had used a wood
> lathe since high school. It took me an entire
> afternoon to make the set of three. I just took my
> time and and made them accurate. They worked great
> in a press. I flanged all my holes in about an
> hour. Those same wood dies are still in use today.
> They have flanged the holes for at least four
> planes. They still work perfectly even though one
> cracked on the first hole it flanged. Wood will
> work.
>
> Brett
>
>
>
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: corvair core available |
Dave, do you still have this engine. If so, contact me through e-mail. I'm not
that far from you, maybe 30 - 40 miles.
Andy
[quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Hello;
I am going to have to eliminate one of my Corvair cores. I do not want to make
any money on it but I do want to recover the $200 I paid for it. I am in Zipcode
19438 in southeastern PA.
The case is 1208RH and one of the heads with the tin off is 3878566 - the other
head still is covered by the tin.
The core includes a distributer and still has the exhaust logs. I do not know what
the actual internal condition is as I never pulled the top cover or the jugs.
If anyone is interested, contact me off line. I would like to sell it for pick
up only - and I would really like to see it go into a 601XL since that was my
plan before my life took a dump.
(I have not totally given up - I am keeping my other core - for now, until I must
sell it as well)
Thanks.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163988#163988
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll |
Yes! Looking forward to my first Sun-n-Fun! Wife and I will be there Thursday thru
Sunday.
do not archive
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
wings done - working on corvair while waiting for fuselage kit
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163992#163992
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hole flanging |
I had good luck with the Bob Stick method, probably not as attractive as
with dies but functional. Had a bit of cupping that was resolved with small
pieces of standard L in between the flanges, straightened them right out.
This method I doubt is quiet a bit slower I would guess but it works.
John
scratch building 701
----- Original Message -----
From: "ROBERT SCEPPA" <rjscep@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hole flanging
>
>> Totaly agree with Brett
> --- Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Sometimes I think this list just makes a lot of
>> people paranoid. No matter what one suggests there
>> is an expert out there on the list that will tell
>> you it will not work. The best thing a builder can
>> do for himself is to find a few mentors that have
>> been there and done that. People that have studied
>> the material and know the rules of safe practice.
>> Follow their advice and take all other advice with a
>> grain of salt. Then get the books and educate
>> yourself. That's what it is all about, learning.
>>
>> When I started building my 701 eight years ago
>> there was not near the information available on the
>> web as there is today. I was using an old set of
>> 4TH edition plans. In the plans where a set of
>> drawings on how to make the flange blocks. I just
>> got some hardwood and turned them up on a wood lathe
>> myself. It was the first time I had used a wood
>> lathe since high school. It took me an entire
>> afternoon to make the set of three. I just took my
>> time and and made them accurate. They worked great
>> in a press. I flanged all my holes in about an
>> hour. Those same wood dies are still in use today.
>> They have flanged the holes for at least four
>> planes. They still work perfectly even though one
>> cracked on the first hole it flanged. Wood will
>> work.
>>
>> Brett
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Dynon EFIS battery |
Short story, I let my installed battery on my Dynon go dead because I didn't put
a fuse on the "keep alive" wire. I dropped a fuse in, and charged the aircraft
main battery. No charge. I checked the paperwork, and checked the yellow
keep alive wire, correctly wired, and pulled the harness off the back of the
instrument, the No 2 pin is the keep alive pin and it has 12+ volts with the
master switch off. Can anyone give me a reason it will not charge. It's not
flying yet.
--------
601XL N676L reserved
ALMOST DONE
CHESAPEAKE VA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163999#163999
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Once Again |
Greetings, all,
When tensioning cables using the "scientific" "just snug" method, be very
careful. Loose cables are easy to see, but when you get the tension in, the
cables don't SEEM to get very tight, because the "give" of the structure
begins to come into play. A tensionometer is recommended, but if that's not
possible (Yeah, they're $$$$$), always approach the tension from the slack
side, in small steps, till JUST snug.
Re: rudder cables loosening when weight is on the nosewheel; in the 801 they
get VERY slack as the nosewheel retracts, so they must be set with it fully
extended. Zenith says this isn't a problem, though, as the bungee should
keep the nosewheel extended except during a bad pitchdown after landing or
when hitting a hard bump when taxiing. My experience flying the Zenith demo
bears this out.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
Odd it would crown like that. After I made mine in the form I'd take it out and
lay it flat on the table and tweak it with the crimping pliers and hand seamer
til it sat down flat, at which point the edges would be 90 degrees anyway. I
then cut the holes and flanged them and didn't notice any crown. Were they perfectly
flat when you cut the holes? Maybe that's why they crowned. That or the
flange die wasn't sturdy enough or something. Odd.
Ron Lendon wrote:
> I had the same crowning issue on the rear ribs and followed Scott's lead and
just added L-angles to all the rear ribs.
>
> http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=1683&log 273&row=253
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164011#164011
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
Did you try just clamping them down with a 3/4 inch bolt and nut with a metal plate
on either side? That looks like a pain in the butt.
[quote="n4546v(at)mindspring.com"]do not archive
What metal dies are those Ron?
Randy, Las Vegas
> ---
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164012#164012
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
Jugle wrote:
>
> The tightest tolerance is 0.5mm on wing rib heights, everything else is 1 to
2 mm as I recall.
>
> Glenn.
I guess I should start over then. I think my ribs are about 1mm under.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164016#164016
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Once Again |
When you tension your cables don't forget Larry McFarland's cheap tension
gauge. Go to http://www.macsmachine.com/ and click on "Tools, Jigging &
Handling" in the left column. Then choose "Cable Tools".
Here is a good overall shot:
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tenscalbrate.gif
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim McBurney
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter Once Again
Greetings, all,
When tensioning cables using the "scientific" "just snug" method, be very
careful. Loose cables are easy to see, but when you get the tension in, the
cables don't SEEM to get very tight, because the "give" of the structure
begins to come into play. A tensionometer is recommended, but if that's not
possible (Yeah, they're $$$$$), always approach the tension from the slack
side, in small steps, till JUST snug.
Re: rudder cables loosening when weight is on the nosewheel; in the 801 they
get VERY slack as the nosewheel retracts, so they must be set with it fully
extended. Zenith says this isn't a problem, though, as the bungee should
keep the nosewheel extended except during a bad pitchdown after landing or
when hitting a hard bump when taxiing. My experience flying the Zenith demo
bears this out.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 13
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| Subject: | Exact measurement |
I guess I should start over then. I think my ribs are about 1mm under.
Just a silly little millimeter under......... Sorry...couldn't
resist
Definitely...DO NOT ARCHIVE!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
Andy,
If your ribs are consistently 1mm under, they should be fine. It's when
you have variance both ways
that might cause your wings to look uneven. And, if it's only one rib
or so, you can shim to even the
surface out. I'd get things clecoed and then decide if specific ribs
need leveling adjustments.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
> Jugle wrote:
>
>> The tightest tolerance is 0.5mm on wing rib heights, everything else is 1 to
2 mm as I recall.
>>
>> Glenn.
>>
>
>
> I guess I should start over then. I think my ribs are about 1mm under.
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
Has anyone looked at the flanging dies from Sonex?
They come with their sample wing rib kit. I don't
know the sizes but they look like the design looks
like it would work. They are some sort of cast
plastic.
Personally, I used the Avery Tools flanging stick
method for all of my holes but a good set of dies
would have done a neater job.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do not archive
--- ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
> <ashontz@nbme.org>
>
> Odd it would crown like that. After I made mine in
> the form I'd take it out and lay it flat on the
> table and tweak it with the crimping pliers and hand
> seamer til it sat down flat, at which point the
> edges would be 90 degrees anyway. I then cut the
> holes and flanged them and didn't notice any crown.
> Were they perfectly flat when you cut the holes?
> Maybe that's why they crowned. That or the flange
> die wasn't sturdy enough or something. Odd.
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS battery |
The same thing happened to me!
It appears that if the internal battery goes completely flat, the internal
recharging circuit won't work (it thinks there's no battery to recharge).
I had to remove the battery (behind a small panel on the right-hand side)
and send it back to my supplier (I'm in the UK, so not to Dynon themselves)
who have a rig to re-charge the battery.
There was also a problem with the internal battery charging on early
versions of the software - make sure you are up to date, the latest can be
downloaded from the Dynon web-site.
Dave Johnson
601XL Jab.3300, It's looking like an aeroplane (almost!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon EFIS battery
>
> Short story, I let my installed battery on my Dynon go dead because I
> didn't put a fuse on the "keep alive" wire. I dropped a fuse in, and
> charged the aircraft main battery. No charge. I checked the paperwork,
> and checked the yellow keep alive wire, correctly wired, and pulled the
> harness off the back of the instrument, the No 2 pin is the keep alive pin
> and it has 12+ volts with the master switch off. Can anyone give me a
> reason it will not charge. It's not flying yet.
>
> --------
> 601XL N676L reserved
> ALMOST DONE
> CHESAPEAKE VA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163999#163999
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
LOL
I already compared notes with Scott Laughlin on this. He has a bit of a gap too
and he's flying.
On another note, when you're super careful, it's amazing how accurately the pieces
can be made, even more amazing when it's a large piece. For instance, bending
my flaps and ailerons, after the third bend was complete and I rechecked the
numbers of what I had versus the plans, the length of my ailerons and flaps
was within half a mm. I was impressed, not so much with myself as with the fact
that if you make an accurate measurement, put it in the bender and bend it
and keep doing that, that it all added up to half a mm. Just in theory alone,
it could potentially add up to 1.5 mm off, even while being careful.
Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com wrote:
> I guess I should start over then. I think my ribs are about 1mm under.
>
>
> Just a silly little millimeter under......... Sorry...couldn't
> resist
>
>
> Definitely...DO NOT ARCHIVE!
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164023#164023
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
The undersize appearance would really only be apparent where the part meets another
part too. I think .5mm tolerance is a bit too picky. If it's 3mm or more
out of whack, than you have some problems because you could start changing the
flight characteristics or strength if things really don't fit well.
The only tolerance I remember reading in the Zenith literature was "strive for
no more than 2 - 3mm", or something to that affect, which, once you get some experience
building, isn't really that difficult to stick to.
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> Andy,
> If your ribs are consistently 1mm under, they should be fine. It's when
> you have variance both ways
> that might cause your wings to look uneven. And, if it's only one rib
> or so, you can shim to even the
> surface out. I'd get things clecoed and then decide if specific ribs
> need leveling adjustments.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> do not archive
>
>
> > Jugle wrote:
> >
> > > The tightest tolerance is 0.5mm on wing rib heights, everything else is 1
to 2 mm as I recall.
> > >
> > > Glenn.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I guess I should start over then. I think my ribs are about 1mm under.
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> > CH601XL - Corvair
> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164024#164024
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS battery |
There was a post on the Dynon support forum about this very issue recently. I think
the answer was make sure you were running the newest version of the software.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164027#164027
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Once Again |
Maybe I'm missing something but how would you get all that into the areas where
the cable was located?
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> When you tension your cables don't forget Larry McFarland's cheap tension
> gauge. Go to http://www.macsmachine.com/ and click on "Tools, Jigging &
> Handling" in the left column. Then choose "Cable Tools".
>
> Here is a good overall shot:
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tenscalbrate.gif
>
> -- Craig
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164028#164028
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Once Again |
That was his calibration rig. The tool itself is fairly small, shown at
the top, with the three rollers. Take a look at his web site.
Bill
Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm missing something but how would you get all that into the areas where
the cable was located?
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
do not archive
What pain?
At the time I didn't have a 3/4" bolt, nut & washers, I didn't have "metal
plates" prepared. It would have taken longer to find or buy and prepare all
that stuff than what I did which cost me "ZERO".
I had the jack, the junk Jeep pickup and a couple of pieces of plywood.
Once the jack was in place and the wheel jacked up, all that it required was
cracking the jack handle, a nice slow descent, then jacking back up about 1"
each time to move the dies to a new hole. It took far less effort than
pumping a handle on a shop press along with staging proper height benches on
each side of the press to support the parts! But I did have to bend over,
but I can always use the exercise.
And, I didn't have to "juggle" any of the parts around. With your "nuts &
bolts & plates" how long does it take to get things positioned for each
press, especially one in the middle of a 12' wing spar web?
Another added benefit for a klutz like me is that working on the driveway,
at zero altitude above field elevation, I didn't drop a single part or die!!
Of course, if you set the dies on edge, they roll down the driveway grade
and you have to chase them the first four or five times until you learn to
set them flat.
By the way, I could have loaded all the parts in the truck and used the
three or four shop presses I had available to me at the airport, but why go
to all that pain?
This all happened a long time ago, I now have a 20 ton shop press at my
plant, and "Old Blue" the Jeep is long gone, the dies are out on the "Zenith
List" circuit, hopefully helping other builders. I believe dies, properly
made of other materials, do a fine job. But I'm pretty darn sure these dies
will not crack!
To those who have not seen the full size pics of this "kitchen sink
technology" here they are again. I know this is "old hat" to veteran
listers, so I apologize in advance for the repetition and download time.
This all happened before I owned a digital camera. The pic is a scan of
film snapshots shich I call: "Gravity powered lightning hole flanging
press".
Best regards to all,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:24 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hole Flanging
>
> Did you try just clamping them down with a 3/4 inch bolt and nut with a
metal plate on either side? That looks like a pain in the butt.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
The old 601HD Construction Manual Dated Jan 1995 "try to achieve an
accuracy of +1/16" (.5mm) on spar and rib heights". Then under "Outboard wing
panels" it states "the ribs which have been made to fit the center section spar
height are slightly too large for the outboard spar: simply hammer lightly the
upper and lower rib flange down until they fit the spar." Looks to me like
they are not too tight on tolerance except height which can be lightly hammer
to fit. Jerry of Ga.
In a message dated 2/14/2008 12:33:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
The undersize appearance would really only be apparent where the part meets
another part too. I think .5mm tolerance is a bit too picky. If it's 3mm or
more out of whack, than you have some problems because you could start
changing the flight characteristics or strength if things really don't fit well.
The only tolerance I remember reading in the Zenith literature was "strive
for no more than 2 - 3mm", or something to that affect, which, once you get
some experience building, isn't really that difficult to stick to.
**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
1/16th of an inch is 25.4mm/16 = 1.5875mm.
[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]The old 601HD Construction Manual Dated Jan 1995
"try to achieve an accuracy of +1/16" (.5mm) on spar and rib heights". Then
under "Outboard wing panels" it states "the ribs which have been made to fit
the center section spar height are slightly too large for the outboard spar:
simply hammer lightly the upper and lower rib flange down until they fit the
spar." Looks to me like they are not too tight on tolerance except height which
can be lightly hammer to fit. Jerry of Ga.
In a message dated 2/14/2008 12:33:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
>
> The undersize appearance would really only be apparent where the part meets
another part too. I think .5mm tolerance is a bit too picky. If it's 3mm
or more out of whack, than you have some problems because you could start
changing the flight characteristics or strength if things really don't fit
well.
>
> The only tolerance I remember reading in the Zenith literature was "strive
for no more than 2 - 3mm", or something to that affect, which, once you get
some experience building, isn't really that difficult to stick to.
>
The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164038#164038
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
All this talk of sub-mm tolerances makes me wonder how so many planes in WWII made
it home at all, with tail sections half shot off, and holes from flak, combat,
etc.
Somewhat of a rhetorical question, but I would sure like to know how the performance
of an "average 601XL" done by an "average first time builder" compares with
the performance of a theoretically "perfect 601XL".
I bet there isn't a whole lot of difference.
Has anyone seen any out there that were really bad...? Any experiences to share...?
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164044#164044
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS battery |
Here is the post in the Dynon forum:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1202928665/1#1
Seems like as update 4.0 might fix the problem.
Cheers Martin[/code]
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
I often think of the same thing. Even when you look at them rolling off the production
line, in pictures with bad lighting, there's nothing but lumps and bumps
all over the plane.
PatrickW wrote:
> All this talk of sub-mm tolerances makes me wonder how so many planes in WWII
made it home at all, with tail sections half shot off, and holes from flak, combat,
etc.
>
> Somewhat of a rhetorical question, but I would sure like to know how the performance
of an "average 601XL" done by an "average first time builder" compares
with the performance of a theoretically "perfect 601XL".
>
> I bet there isn't a whole lot of difference.
>
> Has anyone seen any out there that were really bad...? Any experiences to share...?
>
> Patrick
> XL/Corvair
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164047#164047
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Once Again |
That is the gauge in the calibration jig. The little device with the three
pulleys is the actual gauge. Navigate Larry's site to see the individual
pieces.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:38 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter Once Again
Maybe I'm missing something but how would you get all that into the areas
where the cable was located?
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> When you tension your cables don't forget Larry McFarland's cheap tension
> gauge. Go to http://www.macsmachine.com/ and click on "Tools, Jigging &
> Handling" in the left column. Then choose "Cable Tools".
>
> Here is a good overall shot:
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tenscalbrate.gif
>
> -- Craig
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164028#164028
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| Subject: | Re: 701 VGs with slats |
Yes Larry, I too found CH's article interesting and had the thought
about the location of the VG's as well as what would be the performance
with the slat slots closed, and with VG's. I realize one might not win
the speed race as some are doing with that extra 3 to 7 MPH, but what
about control and other parameters? How would it effect the STOL and the
control characteristics? Many report that the control is much better
without slats and with VG's. I won't be modifying my 701 from the plans
to get more speed, maybe later for more control and more lift. .
Mil
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Once Again |
Oh OK. Never mind. :?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164054#164054
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
Huh ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:46 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Exact measurement
>
> 1/16th of an inch is 25.4mm/16 = 1.5875mm.
>
> [quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]The old 601HD Construction Manual Dated Jan
> 1995 "try to achieve an accuracy of +1/16" (.5mm) on spar and rib
> heights". Then under "Outboard wing panels" it states "the ribs which
> have been made to fit the center section spar height are slightly too
> large for the outboard spar: simply hammer lightly the upper and lower
> rib flange down until they fit the spar." Looks to me like they are not
> too tight on tolerance except height which can be lightly hammer to fit.
> Jerry of Ga.
>
> In a message dated 2/14/2008 12:33:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ashontz@nbme.org writes:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
>>
>> The undersize appearance would really only be apparent where the part
>> meets another part too. I think .5mm tolerance is a bit too picky. If
>> it's 3mm or more out of whack, than you have some problems because you
>> could start changing the flight characteristics or strength if things
>> really don't fit well.
>>
>> The only tolerance I remember reading in the Zenith literature was
>> "strive for no more than 2 - 3mm", or something to that affect, which,
>> once you get some experience building, isn't really that difficult to
>> stick to.
>>
>
>
> The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL
> Music takes you there.
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
>
>> [b]
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164038#164038
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
For what its worth, the flanges on my kit-supplied ribs were a little less than
90 deg. When I tried fastening the first few to the spar, the web deflected
to a domed shape, so the flange next to the spar deflected also. After that,
I went through each one, adjusting the flanges to 90 deg. Nearly all of them were
off.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
"ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
>
>Odd it would crown like that. After I made mine in the form I'd take it out and
lay it flat on the table and tweak it with the crimping pliers and hand seamer
til it sat down flat, at which point the edges would be 90 degrees anyway.
I then cut the holes and flanged them and didn't notice any crown. Were they perfectly
flat when you cut the holes? Maybe that's why they crowned. That or the
flange die wasn't sturdy enough or something. Odd.
>
>
>Ron Lendon wrote:
>> I had the same crowning issue on the rear ribs and followed Scott's lead and
just added L-angles to all the rear ribs.
>>
>> http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=1683&log 273&row=253
>
>
>--------
>Andy Shontz
>CH601XL - Corvair
>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164011#164011
>
>
Message 33
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I have been trying to contact Navaid Devices for the past week with no
success. Their phone keeps ringing but there is no answer. Does anyone
know how to contact them?
Do not archive
Herb Heaton
601XL, working on panel
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Once Again |
I believe that was a fixture for calibrating the "instrument". If you read
the write-up it will make more sense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:37 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter Once Again
> <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> Maybe I'm missing something but how would you get all that into the areas
> where the cable was located?
>
>
> craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
>> When you tension your cables don't forget Larry McFarland's cheap tension
>> gauge. Go to http://www.macsmachine.com/ and click on "Tools, Jigging &
>> Handling" in the left column. Then choose "Cable Tools".
>>
>> Here is a good overall shot:
>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tenscalbrate.gif
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>> --
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164028#164028
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
Interesting topic.
All of the examples of German WWII planes I have seen in museums look
positively crude in comparison to the US Planes.
But, if you really want to see crude, check out the Russian T-34 tank. It
is really rough. But they whipped the Germans with them on the eastern
front. They have one on display in the foreign ordnance field at Aberdeen
Proving Ground. If you're in the neighborhood, it's definitely worth a visit.
Terry
do not archive
At 11:28 AM 2/14/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>I often think of the same thing. Even when you look at them rolling off
>the production line, in pictures with bad lighting, there's nothing but
>lumps and bumps all over the plane.
>
>
>PatrickW wrote:
> > All this talk of sub-mm tolerances makes me wonder how so many planes
> in WWII made it home at all, with tail sections half shot off, and holes
> from flak, combat, etc.
> >
> > Somewhat of a rhetorical question, but I would sure like to know how
> the performance of an "average 601XL" done by an "average first time
> builder" compares with the performance of a theoretically "perfect 601XL".
> >
> > I bet there isn't a whole lot of difference.
> >
> > Has anyone seen any out there that were really bad...? Any experiences
> to share...?
> >
> > Patrick
> > XL/Corvair
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 36
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Count me in.
Will hopefully be bringing my Technical Advisor (AKA my dad.) He owns a
Temco Swift, but y'all will still let him in to the BBQ, won't you?
Brad Cohen
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Hello all,
Have the gascolator and Facet fuel pump from the XL kit for sale
Gascolator-Aircraft Spruce part number 10580 lists for $67.35 (has the tabs welded
on by ZAC
Facet fuel pump number 40105 list at Spruce for $33.30
both new as came with kit
Sell both for $75.00, I'll pay shipping
Please contact me off-list
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
1/16" = 1.5 mm
Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote: The old 601HD Construction Manual Dated Jan 1995
"try to achieve an accuracy of +1/16" (.5mm) on spar and rib heights". Then under
"Outboard wing panels" it states "the ribs which have been made to fit
the center section spar height are slightly too large for the outboard spar:
simply hammer lightly the upper and lower rib flange down until they fit the
spar." Looks to me like they are not too tight on tolerance except height which
can be lightly hammer to fit. Jerry of Ga.
In a message dated 2/14/2008 12:33:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
The undersize appearance would really only be apparent where the part meets
another part too. I think .5mm tolerance is a bit too picky. If it's 3mm or
more out of whack, than you have some problems because you could start
changing the flight characteristics or strength if things really don't fit
well.
The only tolerance I remember reading in the Zenith literature was "strive for
no more than 2 - 3mm", or something to that affect, which, once you get
some experience building, isn't really that difficult to stick to.
---------------------------------
The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes
you there.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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| Subject: | Re: corvair core available |
Hi Andy;
Someone was going to come to look at it/pick it up this weekend but I had to cancel
due to an opportunity to try and solve the issue with my wife. He is supposed
to come out next weekend instead. If you are interested and he does not pan
out I can certainly let you look at it.
Dave, do you still have this engine. If so, contact me through e-mail. I'm not
that far from you, maybe 30 - 40 miles.
Andy
[quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Hello;
I am going to have to eliminate one of my Corvair cores. I do not want to make
any money on it but I do want to recover the $200 I paid for it. I am in Zipcode
19438 in southeastern PA.
The case is 1208RH and one of the heads with the tin off is 3878566 - the other
head still is covered by the tin.
The core includes a distributer and still has the exhaust logs. I do not know what
the actual internal condition is as I never pulled the top cover or the jugs.
If anyone is interested, contact me off line. I would like to sell it for pick
up only - and I would really like to see it go into a 601XL since that was my
plan before my life took a dump.
(I have not totally given up - I am keeping my other core - for now, until I must
sell it as well)
Thanks.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163988#163988
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
Andy,
The crowning I got in the rear ribs was all my fault for making the die clearance
to small (I made em to close) and coining the parts in a press. It really
was faster to just add the L-angles rather than all the hand work. The parts
were flat before the flanging operation, and they are also flat now in the completed
wing.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164114#164114
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Yeah, just make sure you register him as an alien with the CdnGoose [Laughing]
http://ch601.org/BBQ/bbq.htm
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable tension |
Hi Listers,
In my 601 HD taildragger I had an open system with the rudder cables, i.e.
no nose gear struts. The pedals were connected at the front by a set of
springs to the firewall to keep them from falling backwards when no feet
are placed on them. Tension on the cables in flight solely through the
pressure of the feet on the pedals. The rudder was happy, no flutter, no
vibration, zip. How do other TD builders do this?
Greetings from Oz,
Chris from Perth (just building my first nosewheel XL)
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