Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:28 AM - Re: SnF2008 (ZodieRocket)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: SnF2008 (ZodieRocket)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ 08 (Thomas Saniewski)
4. 06:16 AM - Re: Jabiru prices (pavel569)
5. 07:08 AM - Re: Jabiru prices (ashontz)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (ashontz)
7. 07:15 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (ashontz)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru prices (LarryMcFarland)
9. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Rudder cable tension (Mike Fothergill)
10. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru prices (Larry H)
11. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (Ron Lalonde)
12. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru prices (LRM)
13. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
14. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (David Downey)
15. 09:06 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 09:21 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (ashontz)
17. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Hole Flanging (Randy L. Thwing)
18. 10:18 AM - Re: Hole Flanging (ashontz)
19. 10:51 AM - When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) (PatrickW)
20. 11:35 AM - Re: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) (Jaybannist@cs.com)
21. 12:12 PM - Re: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) (Darrell Haas)
22. 12:50 PM - Re: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) (Craig Payne)
23. 12:52 PM - Re: Jabiru prices (dalemed)
24. 12:55 PM - Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll (dalemed)
25. 01:03 PM - Re: Jabiru prices (jetboy)
26. 01:24 PM - Re: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) (PatrickW)
27. 01:25 PM - Sun n Fun Zenith 701Sp Build ()
28. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru prices (Larry H)
29. 02:55 PM - Re: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) (John Smith)
30. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru prices (LarryMcFarland)
31. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: Exact measurement (LarryMcFarland)
32. 06:52 PM - Re: SnF2008 (Ron Lendon)
33. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru prices (Larry H)
34. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru prices (LRM)
35. 08:34 PM - Paint program (Darrell Haas)
Message 1
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Brad, I do not have you listed as signing up for the Sun-N-Fun BBQ yet.
Please Add yourself and your dad so that I know your coming or at least
intend to come to the BBQ Thursday evening. Sign up is here
http://www.ch601.org/BBQ/bbq.htm
For the rest, if your planning on a trip to Sun-N-Fun and you think you
will be there in Thursday please sign up and come to the BBQ with the
rest of us.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brad Cohen
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: SnF2008
Count me in.
Will hopefully be bringing my Technical Advisor (AKA my dad.) He owns a
Temco Swift, but y'all will still let him in to the BBQ, won't you?
Brad Cohen
2/14/2008 6:35 PM
2/14/2008 6:35 PM
Message 2
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Thanks Ron, I snorted my coffee through my nose with that one.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lendon
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:25 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: SnF2008
Yeah, just make sure you register him as an alien with the CdnGoose
[Laughing]
http://ch601.org/BBQ/bbq.htm
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164115#164115
2/14/2008 6:35 PM
2/14/2008 6:35 PM
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ 08 |
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
I'm still looking for a alternative to 3300. I've found a RAM Performance, Ltd
- they are selling Modified Subaru 115HP, 186lb wet, Multiport Fuel Injected Engine
that is available (with RWS EC-2 control unit and Autoflight redrive unit)
for a good price. Anybody has any experience with this engine/company?
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164184#164184
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
That seems to be the common thinking among boaters too, get a good new engine.
Problem is, I see plenty of people broken down with new engines on the back of
their boats. I think maintenance has a lot more to do with reliability.
tjs22t(at)verizon.net wrote:
>
> > 115HP Geo/Suzuki conversion might save you $10,000,
> >
> >
>
> ...but
>
> Security of knowing you're flying behind an aircraft engine - PRICELESS.
>
>
> do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164203#164203
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
Takes me about 60 seconds. I put one half of the die in the vise, put the rib in,
put the other die on top, put the bolt through with the plate on one side,
put the plate on the other side, put the nut on, tighten the nut by hand, then
use a wrench the rest of the way.
Last time I timed it (because I had to remake one with the form already finished),
it took me about 80 minutes to make a wing center rib from flat sheet to fully
finished rib with flanged holes.
n4546v(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> do not archive
>
> And, I didn't have to "juggle" any of the parts around. With your "nuts &
> bolts & plates" how long does it take to get things positioned for each
> press, especially one in the middle of a 12' wing spar web?
>
>
> ---
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164205#164205
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
As long as it works. I figured it was probably the die pinching something too much.
do not archive
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Andy,
>
> The crowning I got in the rear ribs was all my fault for making the die clearance
to small (I made em to close) and coining the parts in a press. It really
was faster to just add the L-angles rather than all the hand work. The parts
were flat before the flanging operation, and they are also flat now in the completed
wing.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164206#164206
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
Hi Pavel,
I have a Stratus, but have had my valve guides replaced with new exhaust
valves by Ron at RAM Performance. Ron can be trusted to support your engine
as his work is excellent. I've been fortunate to have had his advice on
getting correct EGTs as well. Nice guy to deal with.
He is very honest and an expert on the Subaru. Trust what he says.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
pavel569 wrote:
>
> I'm still looking for a alternative to 3300. I've found a RAM Performance, Ltd
- they are selling Modified Subaru 115HP, 186lb wet, Multiport Fuel Injected
Engine that is available (with RWS EC-2 control unit and Autoflight redrive unit)
for a good price. Anybody has any experience with this engine/company?
>
> --------
> Pavel
> CA
> Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved)
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable tension |
That is what I did. Still works great at 1200hrs.
Mike
CH-601HDS TD
C-FRND
chrisoz@bmail.com.au wrote:
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> In my 601 HD taildragger I had an open system with the rudder cables, i.e.
> no nose gear struts. The pedals were connected at the front by a set of
> springs to the firewall to keep them from falling backwards when no feet
> are placed on them. Tension on the cables in flight solely through the
> pressure of the feet on the pedals. The rudder was happy, no flutter, no
> vibration, zip. How do other TD builders do this?
>
> Greetings from Oz,
> Chris from Perth (just building my first nosewheel XL)
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
This is the first I've heard of this motor. My first question of you is, does
it have a proven track record as far as reliability or are you going to be their
"guinea pig? If it needs servicing, who will do it? What type of prices are
they talk about for this unit? I'd be interested in knowing more....
I've personally looked into several of the "standards" of the industry - Rotax,
Lycoming, Continental. I'd never would have considered the Subaru auto conversion
because it would be more than I would want to get into and it requires
a redrive. What I am doing is the Corvair conversion. I roughly figured I'll
have less than 1/3 the cost of a new motor if I was to put every available option
in the Corvair and then I would have a motor that I can service myself.
It would be brand new. It would be something else for you to consider. There
are several people around that rebuild them and would be more than happy to
build one for you if you didn't want to do it yourself. These people are reputable
and have been doing this for a long time. They have data to back up what
they do if you would want further proof. If your interested, send me an offline
message and I will be more than happy to get you in touch with these fine
gentlemen.
Larry H
Pavel569 <pm569@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
I'm still looking for a alternative to 3300. I've found a RAM Performance, Ltd
- they are selling Modified Subaru 115HP, 186lb wet, Multiport Fuel Injected Engine
that is available (with RWS EC-2 control unit and Autoflight redrive unit)
for a good price. Anybody has any experience with this engine/company?
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164184#164184
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
Hi Larry
Everyone on the list seem to be talking about rib height, and there seems
to be quite a concern. Is there any one point where the measurement could b
e taken to measure this to be certain?
I realize that the there can be no variance in the spar...but it is more or
less a "solid" structure.
(I am not quite at the point in the building process, but am curious to see
what this fuss is all about!)_
Ron
601XL. Plan 6520
Debert, NS, Canada
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:05:45 -0600> From: larry@macsmachine.com> To: z
enith-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Exact measurement>
> > Andy,> If your ribs are consistently 1mm under, they should be fine. It
's when > you have variance both ways> that might cause your wings to look
uneven. And, if it's only one rib > or so, you can shim to even the> surfac
e out. I'd get things clecoed and then decide if specific ribs > need level
ing adjustments.> > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com> do not a
rchive> > > Jugle wrote:> > > >> The tightest tolerance is 0.5mm on wing ri
b heights, everything else is 1 to 2 mm as I recall.> >>> >> Glenn.> >> > >
> >> > I guess I should start over then. I think my ribs are about 1mm unde
r.> >> > --------> > Andy Shontz> > CH601XL - Corvair> > www.mykitlog.com/a
=======> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
Actually Subarus were first built for aircraft use. There are thousands
of Subaru conversions out there, many with direct drives. It is with
the possible exception of the VW, the most proven auto conversion on the
market. For the most part when done properly these conversions are
bullet proof. LRM www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Jabiru prices
This is the first I've heard of this motor. My first question of you
is, does it have a proven track record as far as reliability or are you
going to be their "guinea pig? If it needs servicing, who will do it?
What type of prices are they talk about for this unit? I'd be
interested in knowing more....
I've personally looked into several of the "standards" of the industry
- Rotax, Lycoming, Continental. I'd never would have considered the
Subaru auto conversion because it would be more than I would want to get
into and it requires a redrive. What I am doing is the Corvair
conversion. I roughly figured I'll have less than 1/3 the cost of a new
motor if I was to put every available option in the Corvair and then I
would have a motor that I can service myself. It would be brand new.
It would be something else for you to consider. There are several
people around that rebuild them and would be more than happy to build
one for you if you didn't want to do it yourself. These people are
reputable and have been doing this for a long time. They have data to
back up what they do if you would want further proof. If your
interested, send me an offline message and I will be more than happy to
get you in touch with these fine gentlemen.
Larry H
Pavel569 <pm569@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
I'm still looking for a alternative to 3300. I've found a RAM
Performance, Ltd - they are selling Modified Subaru 115HP, 186lb wet,
Multiport Fuel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
2/13/2008 9:41 AM
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
Sorry for the typo, "+1/16 (.5mm)" should have been "1/64 (.5mm)" Jerry of
Ga
In a message dated 2/14/2008 8:28:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
planecrazydld@yahoo.com writes:
1/16" = 1.5 mm
Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote:
The old 601HD Construction Manual Dated Jan 1995 "try to achieve an
accuracy of +1/16" (.5mm) on spar and rib heights". Then under "Outboard wing
panels" it states "the ribs which have been made to fit the center section spar
height are slightly too large for the outboard spar: simply hammer lightly the
upper and lower rib flange down until they fit the spar." Looks to me like
they are not too tight on tolerance except height which can be lightly hammer
to fit. Jerry of Ga.
In a message dated 2/14/2008 12:33:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
1/64" = 0.015625" = 0.396875 mm = 0.4 mm
Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote: Sorry for the typo, "+1/16 (.5mm)" should have been
"1/64 (.5mm)" Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 2/14/2008 8:28:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, planecrazydld@yahoo.com
writes:
1/16" = 1.5 mm
Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote: The old 601HD Construction Manual Dated Jan
1995 "try to achieve an accuracy of +1/16" (.5mm) on spar and rib heights".
Then under "Outboard wing panels" it states "the ribs which have
been made to fit the center section spar height are slightly too large for
the outboard spar: simply hammer lightly the upper and lower rib flange
down until they fit the spar." Looks to me like they are not too tight
on tolerance except height which can be lightly hammer to fit. Jerry of
Ga.
In a message dated 2/14/2008 12:33:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
---------------------------------
The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes
you there.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 15
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Hi guys,
The bowing of the ribs when using flanging dies is a characteristic
of metal bending rather than a fault with the dies. It is called
"Spring Back" and happens whenever metal is bent.
The spring back makes the web bow because it happens all the way
around the bent circle. It can easily be removed with a slotted
stick by bending the flange a little bit further than its final
position after going through the flanging die. You don't need to add
"L" reinforcements to straighten the rib webs.
A similar phenomenon happens when bending the flanges around the edge
of the ribs that makes them bow the rib web and have a less than 90
degree angle to the web. This can be fixed with the fore-mentioned
slotted stick or a small "Seaming" tool - a set of pliers with
somewhat fatter jaws. You can also use the pronged fluting tool
provided with Zenith kits for this purpose.
I don't know what the impact of adding "L"s to the ribs might be. It
probably is OK so long as you don't mind the small weight addition.
Have fun,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 07:08 PM 2/12/2008, you wrote:
>William, I used the flanging dies made of wood and I experienced the
>same problem as you did.
>The rib webs were bowed.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
I really haven't seen any bowing on my ribs. Theoretically, the flange part of
the hole should get stretched slightly and the skin should get thinner, more so
as you move more towards the hole part of the flange. If the skin doesn't get
stretched enough to accommodate the larger diamter the flange edge is being
pressed into in the die as the flange is formed, the rest of the rib will need
to bow to accommodate it's new form. Measuring my rib hole flanges, at the very
edge of the flange the skin is only about .021 whereas it started out as .025.
psm(at)ATT.NET wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> The bowing of the ribs when using flanging dies is a characteristic
> of metal bending rather than a fault with the dies. It is called
> "Spring Back" and happens whenever metal is bent.
>
> The spring back makes the web bow because it happens all the way
> around the bent circle. It can easily be removed with a slotted
> stick by bending the flange a little bit further than its final
> position after going through the flanging die. You don't need to add
> "L" reinforcements to straighten the rib webs.
>
> A similar phenomenon happens when bending the flanges around the edge
> of the ribs that makes them bow the rib web and have a less than 90
> degree angle to the web. This can be fixed with the fore-mentioned
> slotted stick or a small "Seaming" tool - a set of pliers with
> somewhat fatter jaws. You can also use the pronged fluting tool
> provided with Zenith kits for this purpose.
>
> I don't know what the impact of adding "L"s to the ribs might be. It
> probably is OK so long as you don't mind the small weight addition.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
>
>
> At 07:08 PM 2/12/2008, you wrote:
>
> > William, I used the flanging dies made of wood and I experienced the
> > same problem as you did.
> > The rib webs were bowed.
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164240#164240
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
do not archive
Sounds like a good, workmanlike system to flange holes in ribs & short
parts, but you didn't answer my question you yourself quoted below: How
long does it take to stage things to do a hole in the center of a 12' wing
spar web?
Is your vise on a workbench? What supports must you organize to support
wing spar material you are flanging 6' on each side of your vise?
Best Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hole Flanging
>
> Takes me about 60 seconds. I put one half of the die in the vise, put the
rib in, put the other die on top, put the bolt through with the plate on one
side, put the plate on the other side, put the nut on, tighten the nut by
hand, then use a wrench the rest of the way.
>
> Last time I timed it (because I had to remake one with the form already
finished), it took me about 80 minutes to make a wing center rib from flat
sheet to fully finished rib with flanged holes.
>
>
> n4546v(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> > do not archive
> >
> > And, I didn't have to "juggle" any of the parts around. With your "nuts
&
> > bolts & plates" how long does it take to get things positioned for each
> > press, especially one in the middle of a 12' wing spar web?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Hole Flanging |
Oh, spar hole. 5 minutes longer. I think I zipped my toolbox around one side and
my table saw on the other side and then propped as needed.
Yes, my vise is on my workbench.
If I had to use the thing freehand for some reason, I don't see that being a problem
either.
n4546v(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> do not archive
>
> Sounds like a good, workmanlike system to flange holes in ribs & short
> parts, but you didn't answer my question you yourself quoted below: How
> long does it take to stage things to do a hole in the center of a 12' wing
> spar web?
>
> Is your vise on a workbench? What supports must you organize to support
> wing spar material you are flanging 6' on each side of your vise?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Randy, Las Vegas
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Hole Flanging
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Takes me about 60 seconds. I put one half of the die in the vise, put the
> > rib in, put the other die on top, put the bolt through with the plate on one
> >
>
> side, put the plate on the other side, put the nut on, tighten the nut by
> hand, then use a wrench the rest of the way.
>
> >
> > Last time I timed it (because I had to remake one with the form already
> > finished), it took me about 80 minutes to make a wing center rib from flat
> >
>
> sheet to fully finished rib with flanged holes.
>
> >
> >
> > n4546v(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > > And, I didn't have to "juggle" any of the parts around. With your "nuts
> > &
> >
>
>
> > > bolts & plates" how long does it take to get things positioned for each
> > > press, especially one in the middle of a 12' wing spar web?
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164254#164254
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| Subject: | When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) |
I am at 6-B-11b in the photo guide, where they recommend putting the fuselage on
sawhorses.
Looking thorough the archives, it appears that it is ok to rivet the cabin floor
& rudder pedal area at this time.
But what about riveting the wing center section to the cabin floor? Any reason
not to do that at this time as well...?
Running out of clecos and looking for a sanity check. Apologies if there is guidance
that I missed someplace.
Thanks,
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164262#164262
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| Subject: | When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) |
Patrick,
That depends on whether you have the dual sticks option. If you do, you will want
to have the center section out of the airplane and on a bench to attach the
stick brackets. You will have to make up a open-end wrench extension of some
kind, with a small bit of duct tape to hold the nut, to insert between the plates
of the center section. The top nuts (in the wrench extension) must be inserted
from the end of the center section; but the bottom ones can be accessed
through the bottom of the center section if it is not attached to the airplane.
If you have the "Y" center stick, rivet away.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
"PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I am at 6-B-11b in the photo guide, where they recommend putting the fuselage
on sawhorses.
>
>Looking thorough the archives, it appears that it is ok to rivet the cabin floor
& rudder pedal area at this time.
>
>But what about riveting the wing center section to the cabin floor? Any reason
not to do that at this time as well...?
>
>Running out of clecos and looking for a sanity check. Apologies if there is guidance
that I missed someplace.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Patrick
>XL/Corvair
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164262#164262
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) |
Don't feel bad. I have a thousand holes drilled and I'm scared to
rivet any of them.
Darrell
601 XL
N723DD reserved
On 2/15/08, PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am at 6-B-11b in the photo guide, where they recommend putting the fuselage
on sawhorses.
>
> Looking thorough the archives, it appears that it is ok to rivet the cabin floor
& rudder pedal area at this time.
>
> But what about riveting the wing center section to the cabin floor? Any reason
not to do that at this time as well...?
>
> Running out of clecos and looking for a sanity check. Apologies if there is
guidance that I missed someplace.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick
> XL/Corvair
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164262#164262
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) |
Those clecos sure produce a lot of drag when flying.
-- Craig
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Haas
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL)
Don't feel bad. I have a thousand holes drilled and I'm scared to
rivet any of them.
Darrell
601 XL
N723DD reserved
On 2/15/08, PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am at 6-B-11b in the photo guide, where they recommend putting the
fuselage on sawhorses.
>
> Looking thorough the archives, it appears that it is ok to rivet the
cabin floor & rudder pedal area at this time.
>
> But what about riveting the wing center section to the cabin floor? Any
reason not to do that at this time as well...?
>
> Running out of clecos and looking for a sanity check. Apologies if there
is guidance that I missed someplace.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick
> XL/Corvair
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164262#164262
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
> .... What I am doing is the Corvair conversion. I roughly figured I'll have
less than 1/3 the cost of a new motor if I was to put every available option
in the Corvair and then I would have a motor that I can service myself. It
would be brand new. It would be something else for you to consider. There are
several people around that rebuild them and would be more than happy to build
one for you if you didn't want to do it yourself. These people are reputable
and have been doing this for a long time. They have data to back up what they
do if you would want further proof. If your interested, send me an offline
message and I will be more than happy to get you in touch with these fine gentlemen.
>
What wet weight are people seeing with the Corvair? I like the idea of building
an engine, but I want to keep the weight down.
--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith 601XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164286#164286
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| Subject: | Re: Going to SnF 2008? poll |
My wife and I will be there!
--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith 601XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164287#164287
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
Thats an old myth often told by Subaru dealerships in the 70's.
My book on light aircraft has a page on the Fuji FA-200 Aero Subaru:
"The FA-200 Aero Subaru was the first light aircraft fully designed by Fuji....."
Engines used were Lycoming 0-320 and 0-360.
I used to believe the myth myself as it seemed to make sense, until I discovered
the use of Lycomings. I'd be delighted to stand corrected.
The Subaru flat fours however do make a good aero engine conversion provided the
ignition and cooling system are made reliable.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164291#164291
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| Subject: | Re: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) |
I'm building the Y-stick.
Thanks,
- Pat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164292#164292
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| Subject: | Sun n Fun Zenith 701Sp Build |
Hey Zenith Listers,
do not archive
A couple of weeks ago I posted an email to you requesting that you consider
helping with our building a Zenith 701 in the basic Sheet Metal Workshop at
Sun N Fun 2008. We have had 10 of you volunteer to help us thus far - thanks
guys. Also, I've noticed several of you have answered the "poll" about who
will attend SnF this year. So if you are going to be there anyway, I"m
asking you to consider joining us in this worthy project while you're there.
Also make sure you sign up with Mark for the Zenith Builders BarBQue. We
hold it at my campsite!
I'm the Co-Chairman of the workshop. Our regular activitiy, using volunteers
only, is to teach the basics of sheet metal work, focusing primarily on
drilling, deburring and riveting. We do answer specific questions when
necessary.
This year, one of our volunteers has purchased a 701 kit which will when
completed be given to a Missionary Group. The airplane will belong to a
non-profit corp until complete which we plan for SnF 2009.
Our plan this year is to use experienced zenith builders ( no Zenith Factory
folks will be involved ) as guides/supervisors at each of the 701 work
stations. All we ask is a couple of hours for a couple of days. Hey, even if
you don't commit before the event, drop in and visit with us in the Basic
Sheet Metal Workshop. I'll bet you won't be able to resist getting involved.
Well at least stop by to say HI!
Jim Hoak at: planejim@bellsouth.net
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
According to WW, the data is showing the engine weights coming in at 225-230 pounds. Thats with an alternator and electric start. You can find out a lot by going to www.flycorvair.com WW is William Wynne. He is located in northern Florida but his engines are all over the world. Hope this helps you and good luck making that decision. I'm hooked on the Corvair myself.
LH
dalemed <dalemed@gmail.com> wrote:
skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
> .... What I am doing is the Corvair conversion. I roughly figured I'll have less
than 1/3 the cost of a new motor if I was to put every available option in
the Corvair and then I would have a motor that I can service myself. It would
be brand new. It would be something else for you to consider. There are several
people around that rebuild them and would be more than happy to build one for
you if you didn't want to do it yourself. These people are reputable and have
been doing this for a long time. They have data to back up what they do if
you would want further proof. If your interested, send me an offline message and
I will be more than happy to get you in touch with these fine gentlemen.
>
What wet weight are people seeing with the Corvair? I like the idea of building
an engine, but I want to keep the weight down.
--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith 601XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164286#164286
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: When to rivet Center Spar to Cabin Floor (601XL) |
I riveted the wing center section to cabin floor as soon as I riveted the cabin,
but be sure not to rivet at the very least the last two outboard holes on the
center section as gussets will later be installed between the floor and center
section. I chose to delay installing the rudder pedals to keep the center
section clear.
I am at 6-B-11b in the photo guide, where they recommend putting the fuselage on
sawhorses.
Looking thorough the archives, it appears that it is ok to rivet the cabin floor
& rudder pedal area at this time.
But what about riveting the wing center section to the cabin floor? Any reason
not to do that at this time as well...?
Running out of clecos and looking for a sanity check. Apologies if there is guidance
that I missed someplace.
Thanks,
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164262#164262
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
Hi Larry,
Subaru has been around for a long time. Several hundreds of gyros have
flown for years with the Subaru. It was initially designed to be an
aircraft engine, but in the 70s,
the aircraft industry tanked and the Subaru came alive as an automotive
conversion for the road. It is an extremely durable engine that's
become popular because of
its ability to use 87-octane or 100LL without complication. It's a
quiet engine as water cooled engine are and it's 3.5 to 4.5 gal/hr and
inexpensive parts make it a favorite to overhaul. The idea of re-drives
isn't new either as the Merlin, Allison and more than a few aircraft
engines have them. I prefer belted as they're more easily inspected and
less costly to maintain. Rotax has had its share of redrive problems
being gear drive types.
The Corvair engine is also a great engine if you require 6 cylinders and
comparable expense, but both require some knowledge acquired by the
owner and maintainer.
On the basis of knowing both Ron Carr at Ram and WW's Corvairs, it's
indeed a toss up and you pick up the same level of involvement in
installation etc.
Both very good engines.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Larry H wrote:
> */This is the first I've heard of this motor. My first question of
> you is, does it have a proven track record as far as reliability or
> are you going to be their "guinea pig? If it needs servicing, who
> will do it? What type of prices are they talk about for this unit?
> I'd be interested in knowing more..../*
> *//*
> */I've personally looked into several of the "standards" of the
> industry - Rotax, Lycoming, Continental. I'd never would have
> considered the Subaru auto conversion because it would be more than I
> would want to get into and it requires a redrive. What I am doing is
> the Corvair conversion. I roughly figured I'll have less than 1/3 the
> cost of a new motor if I was to put every available option in the
> Corvair and then I would have a motor that I can service myself. It
> would be brand new. It would be something else for you to consider.
> There are several people around that rebuild them and would be more
> than happy to build one for you if you didn't want to do it yourself.
> These people are reputable and have been doing this for a long time.
> They have data to back up what they do if you would want further
> proof. If your interested, send me an offline message and I will be
> more than happy to get you in touch with these fine gentlemen./*
> *//*
> */Larry H/*
>
> */Pavel569 <pm569@HOTMAIL.COM>/* wrote:
>
>
> I'm still looking for a alternative to 3300. I've found a RAM
> Performance, Ltd - they are selling Modified Subaru 115HP, 186lb
> wet, Multiport Fuel
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Exact measurement |
Hi Ron,
The developed max vertical ordinate for the ribs is probably it. I'd
like to think that consistency in dimension is the real issue. Harder
for a taper wing, to be sure, but
if you have taken reasonable means to stay close to the required
dimensions, you're going to be o.k. Often, people get overworked about
small details like this and become
obsessive about getting it exactly right. Few ever achieve exactly this
and so it's best to read the guidelines from Zenith in accomplishing the
task and memorizing the fundamental and basic methods for holding the
rib dimensions. They can be adjusted and if necessary, shimmed. I have
several shims on the top inboard ribs that were
finely tapered and riveted in with the wing skin and rib flanges that
leveled the surfaces. Even with perfect ribs, you have to jig them for
accurate match up with the spar
and it only takes time. Keep a straightedge nearby to check things as
you get the wings clecoed and by that time you'll certainly know what to do.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/viewwingrivets.jpg
Best regards,
Larry McFarland
Ron Lalonde wrote:
> Hi Larry
> Everyone on the list seem to be talking about rib height, and there
> seems to be quite a concern. Is there any one point where the
> measurement could be taken to measure this to be certain?
> I realize that the there can be no variance in the spar...but it is
> more or less a "solid" structure.
>
> (I am not quite at the point in the building process, but am curious
> to see what this fuss is all about!)_
>
> Ron
> 601XL. Plan 6520
> Debert, NS, Canada
>
Message 32
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It's gonna be another fun one.
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164356#164356
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
Thanks for the info on the Subaru. I'm new to homebuilding so I know very little
about it. I have been renting an aircraft (while I'm training) and it has
a Rotax in it. Its a strong little motor but it is a high rpm engine with a redrive
on it. I just heard that Rotax just announced another recall on their
redrives. Supposedly, it will not cost the owner a dime - just the downtime on
the plane. If I hadn't already started with my Corvair Conversion, I would
have seriously looked into the Subaru. Of course not knowing anything about them,
I would be leary. I'm probably not going to stop building after I finish
my 601XL. My wife even comments on how well I know metal and how nice the component
kits are turning out. Dumb luck I told her. LOL. I just take my time
with it is all. I never try to rush. Its quality and not quantity. She told
me she wouldn't be surprised if I decided to build another plane after I finishe
this one.......or two.....or three. My next
plane I will definately look more closely at the Subaru. The Corvair engine has
been experiencing a few breaking crankshafts. WW has been studying them and
has just announced all the cranks should be nitrited now. That will work great
for me since I just found my two core engines and have torn the one down,
getting it ready to send out to Moldex.
Thanks again for the information. I appreciate it!
Larry Hursh
LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
Hi Larry,
Subaru has been around for a long time. Several hundreds of gyros have
flown for years with the Subaru. It was initially designed to be an
aircraft engine, but in the 70s,
the aircraft industry tanked and the Subaru came alive as an automotive
conversion for the road. It is an extremely durable engine that's
become popular because of
its ability to use 87-octane or 100LL without complication. It's a
quiet engine as water cooled engine are and it's 3.5 to 4.5 gal/hr and
inexpensive parts make it a favorite to overhaul. The idea of re-drives
isn't new either as the Merlin, Allison and more than a few aircraft
engines have them. I prefer belted as they're more easily inspected and
less costly to maintain. Rotax has had its share of redrive problems
being gear drive types.
The Corvair engine is also a great engine if you require 6 cylinders and
comparable expense, but both require some knowledge acquired by the
owner and maintainer.
On the basis of knowing both Ron Carr at Ram and WW's Corvairs, it's
indeed a toss up and you pick up the same level of involvement in
installation etc.
Both very good engines.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Larry H wrote:
> */This is the first I've heard of this motor. My first question of
> you is, does it have a proven track record as far as reliability or
> are you going to be their "guinea pig? If it needs servicing, who
> will do it? What type of prices are they talk about for this unit?
> I'd be interested in knowing more..../*
> *//*
> */I've personally looked into several of the "standards" of the
> industry - Rotax, Lycoming, Continental. I'd never would have
> considered the Subaru auto conversion because it would be more than I
> would want to get into and it requires a redrive. What I am doing is
> the Corvair conversion. I roughly figured I'll have less than 1/3 the
> cost of a new motor if I was to put every available option in the
> Corvair and then I would have a motor that I can service myself. It
> would be brand new. It would be something else for you to consider.
> There are several people around that rebuild them and would be more
> than happy to build one for you if you didn't want to do it yourself.
> These people are reputable and have been doing this for a long time.
> They have data to back up what they do if you would want further
> proof. If your interested, send me an offline message and I will be
> more than happy to get you in touch with these fine gentlemen./*
> *//*
> */Larry H/*
>
> */Pavel569
/* wrote:
>
>
> I'm still looking for a alternative to 3300. I've found a RAM
> Performance, Ltd - they are selling Modified Subaru 115HP, 186lb
> wet, Multiport Fuel
>
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru prices |
You stand corrected.
The history of Subaru arguably begins in 1917 with the Aircraft Research
Laboratory. The ARL was founded by Chikuhei Nakajima, a former member of the
Japanese navy who had become entranced by early 20th century aircraft.
Sometime before World War II, the ARL became Nakajima Aircraft Co., Ltd. and
began producing aircraft for the Japanese armed forces. One of its more
memorable contributions to war was in production of engines for the famed
Zero fighter.
LRM, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r@xtra.co.nz>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:01 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jabiru prices
>
> Thats an old myth often told by Subaru dealerships in the 70's.
>
> My book on light aircraft has a page on the Fuji FA-200 Aero Subaru:
>
> "The FA-200 Aero Subaru was the first light aircraft fully designed by
> Fuji....."
>
> Engines used were Lycoming 0-320 and 0-360.
>
> I used to believe the myth myself as it seemed to make sense, until I
> discovered the use of Lycomings. I'd be delighted to stand corrected.
> The Subaru flat fours however do make a good aero engine conversion
> provided the ignition and cooling system are made reliable.
>
> Ralph
>
> --------
> Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164291#164291
>
>
> --
> 9:00 AM
>
>
Message 35
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Has anyone designed a computer program using a picture of a 601XL where you
can try different colors and designs to help you decide what colors and /or
designs you might want on your plane? It would be fun on those stormy nights
to try different color combinations before I actually have to make a
decision on what to use.
Darrell Haas
601XL
N723DD reserved
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