Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - AeroElectric Connection Manual for sale (John Davis)
2. 06:55 AM - Re: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab (Jim McBurney)
3. 07:06 AM - Re: XL WING BOLTS?? (Jim McBurney)
4. 07:37 AM - More Fuel (Zill Coleman)
5. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: 701 motor mount attach points on firewall (Jerry Hey)
6. 07:44 AM - Re: XL WING BOLTS?? (Bryan Martin)
7. 07:51 AM - Re: Torque values (txpilot)
8. 08:13 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/19/08 (kensmith@springnet1.com)
9. 08:35 AM - Re: More Fuel (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
10. 08:47 AM - XL WING BOLTS and any bolts. (Beckman, Rick)
11. 10:13 AM - Re: AeroElectric Connection Manual for sale (Bob Sturgis)
12. 11:11 AM - Re: More Fuel (LarryMcFarland)
13. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/19/08 (Bryan Martin)
14. 12:05 PM - Re: XL WING BOLTS and any bolts. (Bryan Martin)
15. 02:09 PM - Re: Diesel engines (dalemed)
16. 02:26 PM - Re: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab (n801bh@netzero.com)
17. 02:31 PM - 601XL Canopy (aprazer)
18. 02:44 PM - Re: 601XL Canopy (Bryan Martin)
19. 03:14 PM - I m spreading the news. (steve)
20. 03:21 PM - Re: 601XL Canopy (Craig Payne)
21. 05:43 PM - Rudder cut-out (Bill Naumuk)
22. 06:07 PM - Re: I m spreading the news. (cookwithgas)
23. 06:18 PM - Re: I m spreading the news. (Ron Lendon)
24. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Torque values (David Downey)
25. 07:14 PM - Upholstery sources (Paul Riedlinger)
26. 07:22 PM - Re: XL WING BOLTS and any bolts. (David Downey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | AeroElectric Connection Manual for sale |
Hi All,
I have a brand new extra copy of Bob Nuckolls Aeroelectric Connection
Manual Revision 11 which I am selling for $30 including priority mail
shipping in the US.
Please let me know if you are interested.
Thanks,
John Davis
Burnsville, NC
601XL QB - Jab 3300
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab |
Hi, Ben,
Have you considered adjusting the flap pushpull tube to position the
flaperons to give you that little bit that gives you the "sweet spot" pitch
attitude and the 4 mph? Seems to me that would be your best "no-flap"
setting.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: XL WING BOLTS?? |
Hi, Bryan,
Rather than leaving out the washer under the bolt-head, a better way to get
proper thread exposure is to use thin washers, i.e., AN-960-516L. The
washer under the bolt-head serves as a bearing during tightening as well as
a spacer.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 4
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My 601HDS has two 10 gallon leading edge fuel tanks. I want to add 3-5
gallons fuel capacity. Will have the wing skins off. Any suggestions?
HDS 235L2C
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 701 motor mount attach points on firewall |
John, thanks. That helps a lot. I notice that you have installed
7F7-5 firewall stiffeners at an angle instead of vertical. Does that
have to do with the Rotax installation? One last question, what is
the capacity of the Rotax oil tank? Thanks again, Jerry
>
> Jerry:
> I've attached a picture of the left side of my 912 ring mount. You
> can see the tab sticking out to the left where it will be bolted to
> the firewall. The bolt goes through the firewall and through a bent
> steel plate in back which also bolts into the flange of the
> firewall. Presumably whatever mount you're building could be
> attached the same way.
>
> Incidentally, the previous 912 bed-mount mounts a little differently
> right here. The mount tab sticks up rather than to the left, so it
> overlaps on top of 7F7-1SP. That way the bolt goes through 7F7-1SP
> as well, which seems a little more durable to me.
>
> Hope that helps. Drop me an email offline if not, or give Zenith a
> call.
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165154#165154
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1488_142.jpg
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: XL WING BOLTS?? |
As long as the bolt isn't turned while tightening the nut, a washer
isn't really needed under the bolt head, just under the nut. You need
a washer under a bolt head when tightening a bolt into a threaded hole.
It is a bit simpler to use the same size bolt for all twelve locations
though, especially when you're practically standing on your head in
the cabin and working by feel. I put the bolts in from the back of the
spar with the nuts exposed on the front side for ease of inspection. I
had to drill a couple of access holes through the seat pan to allow
the bolts to be inserted that way.
>
> <jmcburney@pobox.com>
>
> Hi, Bryan,
>
> Rather than leaving out the washer under the bolt-head, a better way
> to get
> proper thread exposure is to use thin washers, i.e., AN-960-516L. The
> washer under the bolt-head serves as a bearing during tightening as
> well as
> a spacer.
>
> Blue skies and tailwinds
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Torque values |
Brad,
Getting back to the original subject, page 7-301 of AC 43.13-1B shows proper torque
values. Yes, they are based on shank size, not wrench size. I have this
page posted on my workbench as I seem to refer to it almost every day.
As opposed to a torque wrench you'd find at Home Depot, I strongly recommend taking
the plunge and buying a quality torque wrench. I have one from US Tool -
model TP349 and it's great. If you're planning on installing a Rotax, You'll
definitely use the metric (Newton-meter) side for your engine work. I know it's
expensive, but IMHO it is a must-have. Here is their website:
http://www.ustool.com/
That's my two cents.
Dan Ginty
N787DG
90% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165215#165215
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tp349_torque_wrench_199.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/19/08 |
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sabrina Re: Pitching the H-Stab.
Two changes to the aircraft by changing the pitch to the H-Stab has not
yet been addressed.
#1 - People in the agriculture spraying business sometimes increase the
up pitch to the H-Stab
because they have a out of aft CG when fully loaded. The tail assembly
on an aircraft helps the
loading and CG of the aircraft's stability in the flying mode. When you
increase the angle of attack
on the H-Stab you increase the loading on the tail section of the
aircraft which in turn decreases
some of the loading on the main wing spar section. Reduce the main wing
loading and you will
reduce the stall speed of the aircraft.
#2 - If you reduce the angle of attack of the H-Stab, just the opposite
will occur. You have
reduced the loading to the tail section and in turn increased the
loading on the main wing spar
section. You have then made the aircraft a less stable as well as you
have increased the
STALL SPEED of your aircraft.
Ken Smith
Time: 12:29:31 AM PST US
>From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab
>
>The stabilizer has little to do with the cruise flight attitude of the
>fuselage, it mainly has to do with the trim condition of the airplane.
>If you can trim out the elevator forces in cruise without excessive
>trim tab deflection, re-pitching the stabilizer won't help you. I re-
>pitched my stabilizer because I couldn't trim out the stick forces,
>not because the attitude of the airplane was wrong. I had to hold back
>pressure on the stick all the time to keep the plane from diving.
>
>The cruise flight attitude of the fuselage is controlled mainly by the
>angle of incidence of the main wing. Increasing the angle of incidence
>of the main wing will bring the nose of the fuselage down, but then
>you will also have to pitch the stabilizer up to get it back into trim.
>
>On Feb 19, 2008, at 1:26 AM, NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>With all the talk of pitching the horizontal stabilizer lately I
>>have a quick question. I am doing my conditional inspection on my
>>701 and decided to replace the front horizontal stabilizer brackets
>>to the .063 material. There were no cracks in my old ones but I
>>figured I might as well bite the bullet now while the weather is
>>keeping me from flying anyway. I have always felt that I was flying
>>in a nose high attitude while at cruise and that I do not see the
>>higher MPH that others see. I purchased a digital level and have
>>discovered that my horizontal stabilizer was about a half of a
>>degree low in the front (approx 3 mm). I plan on raising it one
>>degree so that I will be a half of a degree higher in the front
>>based on the A-E line. I am wondering if this is a good idea as I
>>believe this will get me flying in a better attitude at cruise and
>>pick up some speed. Any thoughts?
>>
>>Bob Spudis
>>N701Zx/ CH-701/ 912S/ 140hrs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Why not add the wing baggage comp. fuel tanks? Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 2/20/2008 10:38:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
zill@pinnacletrans.com writes:
My 601HDS has two 10 gallon leading edge fuel tanks. I want to add 3-5
gallons fuel capacity. Will have the wing skins off. Any suggestions?
HDS 235L2C
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 10
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| Subject: | XL WING BOLTS and any bolts. |
As long as the bolt isn't turned while tightening the nut, a washer
isn't really needed under the bolt head, just under the nut. You need
a washer under a bolt head when tightening a bolt into a threaded hole.
It is a bit simpler to use the same size bolt for all twelve locations
though, especially when you're practically standing on your head in
the cabin and working by feel. I put the bolts in from the back of the
spar with the nuts exposed on the front side for ease of inspection. I
had to drill a couple of access holes through the seat pan to allow
the bolts to be inserted that way.
Brian, it's your bird and you can do it however you wish as
long as you feel it is safe. My Tech Counselor, Jim Miller, Tony
Bengalis award winner, told me the bolts go "In, Back, and Down".
Also, the washer under the bolt head will spread the force
over a slightly larger area and, should the bolt turn any, the washer
will keep the hex corners from digging into the softer aluminum.
Again, just my $.02.
Rick
Do not archive.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric Connection Manual for sale |
I am interested. I am just gathering all my insterments and getting ready to wire.
Bob Sturgis
bobefx@yahoo.com
601xl QB
818-902-9354 work 6am - 6pm Mon to Sat.
Message 12
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Hi Zill,
I'd recommend you look at putting extra tanks in the wing lockers or use
a small header.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Zill Coleman wrote:
> My 601HDS has two 10 gallon leading edge fuel tanks. I want to add
> 3-5 gallons fuel capacity. Will have the wing skins off. Any
> suggestions?
>
> HDS 235L2C
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/19/08 |
I situation #1, in addition to the lower stall speed, the airplane has
less pitch stability. If you add too much angle of attack to the
stabilizer you may end up with a situation where the stabilizer,
generating positive lift, can stall before the main wing. This would
result in a pitch up which you may not be able to recover from.
In situation #2, increasing the stall speed of the airplane does not
make it less stable. Actually, decreasing the angle of attack of the
stabilizer (pitching it down) INCREASES the pitch stability of the
airplane. The stabilizer will be flying at a lower angle of attack
than the main wing and the main wing will stall first, resulting in a
pitch down towards stall recovery. The stabilizer will most likely be
flying at a negative angle of attack and producing a down force on the
tail. In this case, even if it stalls first, the result will be a
pitch down towards stall recovery. The higher stall speed just means
you will need a longer runway and faster approach speeds.
Unfortunately, it also it makes an emergency landing more dangerous.
On Feb 20, 2008, at 11:10 AM, kensmith@springnet1.com wrote:
>
>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sabrina Re: Pitching the H-Stab.
>
> Two changes to the aircraft by changing the pitch to the H-Stab has
> not yet been addressed.
>
> #1 - People in the agriculture spraying business sometimes increase
> the up pitch to the H-Stab
> because they have a out of aft CG when fully loaded. The tail
> assembly on an aircraft helps the
> loading and CG of the aircraft's stability in the flying mode. When
> you increase the angle of attack
> on the H-Stab you increase the loading on the tail section of the
> aircraft which in turn decreases
> some of the loading on the main wing spar section. Reduce the main
> wing loading and you will
> reduce the stall speed of the aircraft.
>
> #2 - If you reduce the angle of attack of the H-Stab, just the
> opposite will occur. You have
> reduced the loading to the tail section and in turn increased the
> loading on the main wing spar
> section. You have then made the aircraft a less stable as well as
> you have increased the
> STALL SPEED of your aircraft.
>
> Ken Smith
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: XL WING BOLTS and any bolts. |
The "in, back and down" rule of thumb is based on the idea that if
it's applied, the forces acting on the bolt will tend to keep it in
place even if the nut falls off. It is not a hard and fast rule
though, just a guideline. If there's no particular reason not to, it
should be applied. In some cases, this rule can't be applied (for
instance, if it doesn't allow a torque wrench to be applied to the
nut) and in others, there is a good reason not to apply it. In the
case of the spar bolts, I would rather be able to physically inspect
the nuts before flight even if it does violate this guideline. It's
also pretty difficult to get a torque wrench on the nut if it's under
the seat pan.
The hex corners on AN bolts are chamfered so they can't dig into the
surface they are mounted to. There is a circular bearing surface built
into the bolt head.
On Feb 20, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Beckman, Rick wrote:
>
> Brian, it's your bird and you can do it however you wish
> as long as you feel it is safe. My Tech Counselor, Jim Miller, Tony
> Bengalis award winner, told me the bolts go "In, Back, and Down".
> Also, the washer under the bolt head will spread the
> force over a slightly larger area and, should the bolt turn any, the
> washer will keep the hex corners from digging into the softer
> aluminum.
> Again, just my $.02.
> Rick
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Diesel engines |
You might be interested in the Gemini 100 by Powerplant Developements in England.
I saw the engine at the Light Sport Expo in Florida and really like the looks
and idea of it.
Its 100bhp at 2500rpm and has a specific fuel consumption of 0.37 at 75%. The
total installed wet weight is 190.5 lbs. That's competitive with the Jabiru 3300
or Rotax 912.
You can request info at info@ppdgemini.com.
--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith 601XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165270#165270
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gemini_100_spec_sheet_12_07_910.pdf
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sabrina Re: pitching the H-stab |
Hi Jim.. My conditional inspection is coming up next month and that is e
xactly what I am going to do, The adjustment is rather simple as all I n
eed to do is slide the limit switch in the flap motor to make it stop so
oner. As you being a fellow 801 builder knows we cannot change the main
wing angle of incidence because the area we have to drill through for th
e spar bolts is not a large enough surface to make any adjustments. Ther
e will be an edge distance issue in both the front and rear spars if I a
lter it.
Tailwinds and do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Jim McBurney" <jmcburney@pobox.com> wrote:
Hi, Ben,
Have you considered adjusting the flap pushpull tube to position the
flaperons to give you that little bit that gives you the "sweet spot" pi
tch
attitude and the 4 mph? Seems to me that would be your best "no-flap"
setting.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
========================
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========================
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========================
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_____________________________________________________________
Improve your ability to get around with a wheel chair van. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4sxOu5IyulikJmE0dd4
rPKSWnxHH65KbMoSw7J0wmmxfoKdM/
Message 17
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Ladies and Gents;
I have decided to glue the broken triangular piece back onto the canopy instead
of purchasing a new canopy for $550 and then go through all the trouble of trimming,
drilling, etc...
To cover the damaged area, I have decided to revert back to the old way of doing
things by installing a metal flashing on the front of the canopy.
This is where I need the help from someone!
Does anyone have the dimensions for this front flashing? My plans are too new and
don't show this flashing.
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
Mack
N990MK
CH601XL/Jabiru3300
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165275#165275
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Canopy |
I don't have my plans handy right now but you could just lay a piece
of craft paper up there and trim it to fit and use that as a pattern
for the metal.
>
> Ladies and Gents;
> I have decided to glue the broken triangular piece back onto the
> canopy instead of purchasing a new canopy for $550 and then go
> through all the trouble of trimming, drilling, etc...
> To cover the damaged area, I have decided to revert back to the old
> way of doing things by installing a metal flashing on the front of
> the canopy.
> This is where I need the help from someone!
> Does anyone have the dimensions for this front flashing? My plans
> are too new and don't show this flashing.
> Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
> Mack
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 19
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| Subject: | I m spreading the news. |
Our fellow builder and contributior to this site, Larry McFarland has a
machine shop and offers his services to this group.
I saw that he had a nose wheel tow bar and strut collar for sale and I
bought one from him. It arrived today.....
What an " absolutely beautiful" piece of craftsmanship.
The design is perfect and this product is amazing.
Like most builders I thought I might build my own tow bar system, but
now know that there's no way I could come close to the quality of
Larry's work. I hope Larry continues to make these items and I
recommend that everyone ask him about his products.
Thanks Larry
Steve Weston
N9554Z
601XL
almost, almost almost done!
Message 20
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My oldest set of plans lists .025, 210 X 1600, 6-C-3, 05/01. Same on the
01/03 version.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of aprazer
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Canopy
Ladies and Gents;
I have decided to glue the broken triangular piece back onto the canopy
instead of purchasing a new canopy for $550 and then go through all the
trouble of trimming, drilling, etc...
To cover the damaged area, I have decided to revert back to the old way of
doing things by installing a metal flashing on the front of the canopy.
This is where I need the help from someone!
Does anyone have the dimensions for this front flashing? My plans are too
new and don't show this flashing.
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
Mack
N990MK
CH601XL/Jabiru3300
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165275#165275
Message 21
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All-
Nearly out of airframe parts!
Need some help on this.
Anyone have a surefire way of cutting the rudder nose skin to fit
the stab and rudder fairing? All suggestions welcome, especially from
flying people.
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: I m spreading the news. |
Steve:
It is no surprise to me. I've been admiring Larry's work for years. His sheet
brake plans were superb and allowed me to build a sheet brake that helped me
plans-build my airplane.
I'm a big Larry Mc -fan also.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165317#165317
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: I m spreading the news. |
I'm a big Larry Mac fan also. Look at the bike I hope to bring to SnF. His plans
and seat form make it all possible. I did a little work myself but "Good
Design is Good Design".
Thanks Larry!
http://mykitlog.com/users/index.php?user=rlendon&project=441
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165322#165322
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Torque values |
don't forget that you need a calibration check at least once a year. Before the
flames start to bloom, a simple fixture with a crank arm in a bearing and a tared
bucket with water in it (pure water is 1 gram/cc; 453.6 grams/pound) is a
good functional check.
Brad,
Getting back to the original subject, page 7-301 of AC 43.13-1B shows proper torque
values. Yes, they are based on shank size, not wrench size. I have this
page posted on my workbench as I seem to refer to it almost every day.
As opposed to a torque wrench you'd find at Home Depot, I strongly recommend taking
the plunge and buying a quality torque wrench. I have one from US Tool -
model TP349 and it's great. If you're planning on installing a Rotax, You'll
definitely use the metric (Newton-meter) side for your engine work. I know it's
expensive, but IMHO it is a must-have. Here is their website:
http://www.ustool.com/
That's my two cents.
Dan Ginty
N787DG
90% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165215#165215
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tp349_torque_wrench_199.jpg
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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| Subject: | Upholstery sources |
I am at that point on my XL where I have to start thinking about interior
upholstery. I would be interested in getting recommendations (or avoidance
warnings) on who has the best interiors. I am partial to leather (or
similar) at this point.
--
Paul Riedlinger
cndmovn@gmail.com
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| Subject: | Re: XL WING BOLTS and any bolts. |
unless the hole is too close to the radius in the first place...
do not archive
Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote: The "in, back and down" rule of
thumb is based on the idea that if it's applied, the forces acting on the bolt
will tend to keep it in place even if the nut falls off. It is not a hard and
fast rule though, just a guideline. If there's no particular reason not to, it
should be applied. In some cases, this rule can't be applied (for instance,
if it doesn't allow a torque wrench to be applied to the nut) and in others, there
is a good reason not to apply it. In the case of the spar bolts, I would
rather be able to physically inspect the nuts before flight even if it does violate
this guideline. It's also pretty difficult to get a torque wrench on the
nut if it's under the seat pan.
The hex corners on AN bolts are chamfered so they can't dig into the surface they
are mounted to. There is a circular bearing surface built into the bolt head.
On Feb 20, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Beckman, Rick wrote:
Brian, it's your bird and you can do it however you wish as long as
you feel it is safe. My Tech Counselor, Jim Miller, Tony Bengalis award winner,
told me the bolts go "In, Back, and Down".
Also, the washer under the bolt head will spread the force over a slightly
larger area and, should the bolt turn any, the washer will keep the hex
corners from digging into the softer aluminum.
Again, just my $.02.
Rick
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
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