Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:43 AM - Re: Upholstery sources (swater6)
2. 07:22 AM - Re: Rudder cut-out (Bill Naumuk)
3. 07:24 AM - Re: Rudder cut-out (Bill Naumuk)
4. 09:26 AM - Saddle (Bill Naumuk)
5. 09:46 AM - Re: Rudder cut-out (LarryMcFarland)
6. 10:27 AM - Re: Rudder cut-out (THOMAS SMALL)
7. 10:43 AM - Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (A. Michael Honer)
8. 11:02 AM - Re: Bottom Rudder Bracket attachment (MHerder)
9. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Bottom Rudder Bracket attachment (Craig Payne)
10. 12:40 PM - Re: Upholstery sources (archerm)
11. 12:44 PM - Re: rudder light (ROBERT SCEPPA)
12. 01:05 PM - Saddle, pt II (Bill Naumuk)
13. 01:17 PM - Re: Saddle (chris Sinfield)
14. 01:21 PM - Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery (Jeff)
15. 02:15 PM - Re: Saddle (Edward Moody II)
16. 02:21 PM - Re: Saddle, pt II (Edward Moody II)
17. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Saddle (LarryMcFarland)
18. 02:46 PM - Re: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery (LarryMcFarland)
19. 03:00 PM - Re: Rudder cut-out (Juan Vega)
20. 03:34 PM - Where's the Love? (cookwithgas)
21. 03:42 PM - Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (Tim Juhl)
22. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (Gary Boothe)
23. 04:35 PM - One-eyed Pilots (Stanley Challgren)
24. 04:52 PM - Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (Betty Lou)
25. 04:58 PM - Re: One-eyed Pilots (steve)
26. 05:21 PM - Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (Edward Moody II)
27. 05:41 PM - Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (skyridersbn)
28. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (Jaybannist@cs.com)
29. 06:14 PM - Re: One-eyed Pilots (Juan Vega)
30. 06:42 PM - Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (Craig Payne)
31. 07:03 PM - Re: One-eyed Pilots (ROBERT SCEPPA)
32. 07:05 PM - Re: skins (Ron Lendon)
33. 07:08 PM - Re: Where's the Love? (ROBERT SCEPPA)
34. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Saddle (Dave Austin)
35. 07:39 PM - Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote (Ron Lendon)
36. 08:48 PM - Re: Saddle, pt II (Bill Naumuk)
37. 09:11 PM - Re: Saddle (Richard Vetterli)
38. 09:46 PM - Re: Re: Saddle (Bill Naumuk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Upholstery sources |
I bought the ready made upholstery from Flightcrafters. I haven't installed it
yet but have see it in other XL's. It looks and feels great and I was impressed
with the quality sewing especially on the piece that covers the armrest and
forms the boot for the control stick. They also included some extra fabric
which I will use to cover between the seats up top.
This link is to the info on Zenith's site.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-upholstery.html
This link is the Flightcrafters link with price.
http://www.zenithdistributing.com/
It's not cheap but my sewing skills are non-existent and this will give me "that
new plane smell".....
Scott
--------
601 XL kit
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165701#165701
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cut-out |
Larry-
Having troubles- hell, I'm flying blind! I have absolutely no print or
manual information about installing the saddle whatsoever. I don't even know
if I can install the saddle now, before the rear top fuse skins are on. I
wanted to get the empennage rough-rigged and my belly strobe wired before
closing in the rear of the fuse, if possible.
1. How does the saddle attach to the stab? You had one picture in the
archives that had two (Bolts/rivets) located at the aft end of the saddle. I
would assume, then, that you used some standard angle for a mount. Did you
continue the angle and hole pattern the entire length of the attachment area
or just in the area shown in the picture?
2. Once the bottom edge is contoured to the stab, I'm assuming you
follow the angle of the top of the saddle to meet the spar, plus 5mm
clearance for the rudder nose skin cut.
3. Do you leave the flat top of the saddle closed, or are you supposed
to cut it out?
You know from my experience with the outboard fairings that I hate
fiberglass, and it hates me. I'll be damned if I go through 3 saddles before
I get it right this time.
I intend to line the saddle on the CL with the top vertex even with the
front of the nose skin. Then, I'll use a spacer to trace the contour of the
stab and cut the bottom of the saddle. This will allow me to lay out the
rudder nose skin cut.
After cutting the nose skin, I'll trace the perimeter outline of the
saddle to the stab, adjust for the thickness of the fiberglass, and install
standard angle to the top of the stab for as long as practical.
Sound like a plan? Let me know if I should wait until the top rear fuse
skins are on. (I don't think they're a factor).
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder cut-out
>
> Bill,
> Are you having difficulty cutting the line that separates the rudder from
> the saddle piece?
> I've got a 5mm clearance between the saddle and the rudder. Getting the
> elevator bellcrank
> clearance and then the gap at the rudder is tricky.
> Place the saddle with crank clearance first. Then work up trim on the
> rudder. Then fill the
> bottom of the rudder with a bulkhead flanges up.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>> All-
>> Nearly out of airframe parts!
>> Need some help on this.
>> Anyone have a surefire way of cutting the rudder nose skin to fit the
>> stab and rudder fairing? All suggestions welcome, especially from flying
>> people.
>> Thanks.
>> Bill Naumuk
>> Townville, Pa.
>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>> *
>> *
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cut-out |
Here's a picture.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder cut-out
> Larry-
> Having troubles- hell, I'm flying blind! I have absolutely no print or
> manual information about installing the saddle whatsoever. I don't even
> know if I can install the saddle now, before the rear top fuse skins are
> on. I wanted to get the empennage rough-rigged and my belly strobe wired
> before closing in the rear of the fuse, if possible.
> 1. How does the saddle attach to the stab? You had one picture in the
> archives that had two (Bolts/rivets) located at the aft end of the saddle.
> I would assume, then, that you used some standard angle for a mount. Did
> you continue the angle and hole pattern the entire length of the
> attachment area or just in the area shown in the picture?
> 2. Once the bottom edge is contoured to the stab, I'm assuming you
> follow the angle of the top of the saddle to meet the spar, plus 5mm
> clearance for the rudder nose skin cut.
> 3. Do you leave the flat top of the saddle closed, or are you supposed
> to cut it out?
> You know from my experience with the outboard fairings that I hate
> fiberglass, and it hates me. I'll be damned if I go through 3 saddles
> before I get it right this time.
> I intend to line the saddle on the CL with the top vertex even with the
> front of the nose skin. Then, I'll use a spacer to trace the contour of
> the stab and cut the bottom of the saddle. This will allow me to lay out
> the rudder nose skin cut.
> After cutting the nose skin, I'll trace the perimeter outline of the
> saddle to the stab, adjust for the thickness of the fiberglass, and
> install standard angle to the top of the stab for as long as practical.
> Sound like a plan? Let me know if I should wait until the top rear fuse
> skins are on. (I don't think they're a factor).
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder cut-out
>
>
>>
>> Bill,
>> Are you having difficulty cutting the line that separates the rudder from
>> the saddle piece?
>> I've got a 5mm clearance between the saddle and the rudder. Getting the
>> elevator bellcrank
>> clearance and then the gap at the rudder is tricky.
>> Place the saddle with crank clearance first. Then work up trim on the
>> rudder. Then fill the
>> bottom of the rudder with a bulkhead flanges up.
>>
>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>
>> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>>> All-
>>> Nearly out of airframe parts!
>>> Need some help on this.
>>> Anyone have a surefire way of cutting the rudder nose skin to fit
>>> the stab and rudder fairing? All suggestions welcome, especially from
>>> flying people.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Bill Naumuk
>>> Townville, Pa.
>>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>> *
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 4
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All-
Working it out with various listers. Will post a procedure once I
come up with something workable. This is another one of those gaps in
the manual. To begin with, looks like one should wait until rear top
skins are installed.
do not archive (Yet)
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cut-out |
You're right Bill,
but you do need to put the rear top skins on before you get into fitting
the saddle. Then you have the dimensions
needed and the estimate of fit to make it work. Don't know anyone
that's succeeded in putting it on before the
rear top skin. Even trimming the rear top skin for the stab is a pain,
but that needs doing too.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/rudderfairing.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/fitfairing.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/ruddernose.gif
The rudder, elevator bellcrank and rear top skin fitted for the nose of
the stabilizer, then the saddle.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/runuprear.gif
The saddle is a bitch to get in until you learn to spread the sides of
it as you draw it back under the rudder far
enough to get the front edge under the rear top skin. You have to not
trim too much from your rear top skin to
allow fasteners and rudder gap and bellcrank their proper clearances. It
gets close with this piece.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/bhorn.gif
The two screws you see on each side screw into tinnermans on a short
standard angle. The front of the saddle
is fitted with 3 tinnermans and I have screws going thru the rear top
skin and into the tinnermans. That was my
solution to the forward and rear side attach points.
Hope this helps a bit,
Larry McFarland
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> Here's a picture.
> Bill
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder cut-out
>
>
>> Larry-
>> Having troubles- hell, I'm flying blind! I have absolutely no
>> print or manual information about installing the saddle whatsoever. I
>> don't even know if I can install the saddle now, before the rear top
>> fuse skins are on. I wanted to get the empennage rough-rigged and my
>> belly strobe wired before closing in the rear of the fuse, if possible.
>> 1. How does the saddle attach to the stab? You had one picture in
>> the archives that had two (Bolts/rivets) located at the aft end of
>> the saddle. I would assume, then, that you used some standard angle
>> for a mount. Did you continue the angle and hole pattern the entire
>> length of the attachment area or just in the area shown in the picture?
>> 2. Once the bottom edge is contoured to the stab, I'm assuming you
>> follow the angle of the top of the saddle to meet the spar, plus 5mm
>> clearance for the rudder nose skin cut.
>> 3. Do you leave the flat top of the saddle closed, or are you
>> supposed to cut it out?
>> You know from my experience with the outboard fairings that I hate
>> fiberglass, and it hates me. I'll be damned if I go through 3 saddles
>> before I get it right this time.
>> I intend to line the saddle on the CL with the top vertex even
>> with the front of the nose skin. Then, I'll use a spacer to trace the
>> contour of the stab and cut the bottom of the saddle. This will allow
>> me to lay out the rudder nose skin cut.
>> After cutting the nose skin, I'll trace the perimeter outline of
>> the saddle to the stab, adjust for the thickness of the fiberglass,
>> and install standard angle to the top of the stab for as long as
>> practical.
>> Sound like a plan? Let me know if I should wait until the top rear
>> fuse skins are on. (I don't think they're a factor).
>> Bill
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland"
>> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder cut-out
>>
>>
>>> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>> Are you having difficulty cutting the line that separates the rudder
>>> from the saddle piece?
>>> I've got a 5mm clearance between the saddle and the rudder. Getting
>>> the elevator bellcrank
>>> clearance and then the gap at the rudder is tricky.
>>> Place the saddle with crank clearance first. Then work up trim on
>>> the rudder. Then fill the
>>> bottom of the rudder with a bulkhead flanges up.
>>>
>>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>>
>>> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>>>> All-
>>>> Nearly out of airframe parts!
>>>> Need some help on this.
>>>> Anyone have a surefire way of cutting the rudder nose skin to
>>>> fit the stab and rudder fairing? All suggestions welcome,
>>>> especially from flying people.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Bill Naumuk
>>>> Townville, Pa.
>>>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cut-out |
>The saddle is a bitch to get in until you learn to spread the sides of it
>as you draw it back under the rudder far
>enough to get the front edge under the rear top skin.
...or try this which also allows the stab to be removed without marring
paint/finish.
http://www.ch601.org/resources/zodiac%20updates/mod_to_remove_stabilizer_at_a_la.htm
Message 7
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| Subject: | Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
I have lost the sight of my left eye, and will sell my carefully built
601XL for about one half of what I have in it.
Includes Jab 3300 mounted in fitted cowling, firewall forward, dual
sticks, hinged ailerons, aileron trim. Fuselage ,wings and tail are
complete and have been test mounted and cables rigged. wings are back
off.
fuselage is complete less about half the work to finish the
canopy...Ready to install the systems, decide what instruments and
radios to buy and to put in it and do that job.
Airplane is in N.C., and can be had for $17,500. Off- line inquiries
please...Lots of pictures
EAA guy says "excellent"
amhoner@rtmc.net...336-857-1151
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bottom Rudder Bracket attachment |
OK so assuming that the prints are incorrect on the number of A5 rivets it says
6, someone has confirmed with Zenith that the correct # is 4, is the number of
bolts still 4 as indicated in the drawings? Two are shown in the manual....
Yes, I understand the drawings take priority over the manual and not to count
the x's for rivets. Anybody mind taking a look at their QB kit? How is Zenith
installing them these days?
Thanks,
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165783#165783
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bottom Rudder Bracket attachment |
Take a look at these shots of my QBK.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MHerder
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bottom Rudder Bracket attachment
OK so assuming that the prints are incorrect on the number of A5 rivets it
says 6, someone has confirmed with Zenith that the correct # is 4, is the
number of bolts still 4 as indicated in the drawings? Two are shown in the
manual.... Yes, I understand the drawings take priority over the manual and
not to count the x's for rivets. Anybody mind taking a look at their QB
kit? How is Zenith installing them these days?
Thanks,
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165783#165783
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Upholstery sources |
I ended up building my own and then taking it to a local auto upholstery shop.
I am real happy with the resluts. Check it out on my site
http://www.zodiacxl.com/Seats.htm
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
--------
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165804#165804
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1786_107.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: rudder light |
> John is right make it simple...Do not archive
--- John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net> wrote:
> <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>
> Steve Wittman mounted a bulb holder so that the only
> thing that protruded
> from the rudders edge was the bulb top itself, no
> lens cover at all, Light
> ,cheap , practical, and it works, typical Wittman.
> John Bolding
>
>
> <darrellhaas@gmail.com>
> >
> > What are people using for the rear light on the
> rudder? I don't have
> > one yet and wonder if I should rivet the rudder
> before buying and
> > installing the light or go ahead and finish the
> rudder and add the
> > light later. What about the wires. Best bang for
> the buck? Zenith vs
> > ??
> > Darrell
> > 601 XL
> > reserved N723DD
> >
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 12
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All-
On lister advice, decided to wait until rear top skins were in place
before fitting the saddle. Rough rigged elevator; will have to pore over
ACS catalog to get electrical fittings to connect tail light, elevator
trim, and belly strobe. Will also have to install a fitting attached to
the lower fuse to support cables. Then I can install the rear fuse top
skins.
Note: HF cable cutting pliers are a POS. The ACS $15.00 Nico Press
squeezer is barely adequate for the assembly of 1 project. I have 2
fittings to go and the squeezer is about shot.
90% done, 95% to go!
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Message 13
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Q For all those people that were talking about adjusting the Horizontal stab when
flight testing.
how much messing about with the saddle was required for each change?
Did you have to buy a new fiberglass saddle each time ?
Could you flight test it without the saddle? get the right angle and then install
the saddle?
Chris.
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165813#165813
Message 14
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| Subject: | Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery |
All,
I'm working with the seats now too. I have found that there really are
three parts to the seats. These are the cushions, the seat backs, and the
upholstery.
My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material. The fiberglass
(reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site appears to
be a better solution. I guess I'll just have to learn to use fiberglass.
For the cushions, several types of foam are available from common soft foam
to Confor Foam. Both Hi-Tech Seats and Oregon Aero have patterns for the
601 using Confor foam. Oregon Aero is more than twice the price of Hi-Tech,
but includes a multi-piece seat with professionally contoured shapes. Does
anyone have either installed?
I checked with a local auto upholstery shop, and getting the cover done
should be the easiest part.
I have a couple questions:
How far above the baggage shelf should the headrest portion of the seatback
extend to protect our heads? Most of the pictures I see just have a large
arc or simple straight edge as the top of the seat back. Is there a reason
that there is no head rest? Should the seats be more like the bucket seats
in a car with integral head rests? Is it just personal preference? I just
measured my plane and came up with 300 mm above the shelf for the top of the
headrest assuming a 3 inch foam seat over the seat pan. How do the
Flightcrafters or Zenith seats compare?
Thanks ....
Jeff D.
Message 15
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Definitely Bill. Wait until you hav ethe rear top skin at least clecoed
in place so you can work out how the saddle sits on the H-stab and how
the saddle's forward edge mates up with the aft edge of the rear top
skin. I jumped in a separate piece of .016 to allow me to cut the aft
edge of the rear top skin far enough forward so that the H-stab can be
placed and removed in a vertical path compatible with the brackets.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:23 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Saddle
All-
Working it out with various listers. Will post a procedure once I
come up with something workable. This is another one of those gaps in
the manual. To begin with, looks like one should wait until rear top
skins are installed.
do not archive (Yet)
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
2/22/2008 6:39 PM
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Saddle, pt II |
For the five conductor trim cable, go to Radio Shack and buy the panel
mount plug for a CB mic. It has five pins and has a locking ring to keep
it securely plugged.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 2:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Saddle, pt II
All-
On lister advice, decided to wait until rear top skins were in
place before fitting the saddle. Rough rigged elevator; will have to
pore over ACS catalog to get electrical fittings to connect tail light,
elevator trim, and belly strobe. Will also have to install a fitting
attached to the lower fuse to support cables. Then I can install the
rear fuse top skins.
Note: HF cable cutting pliers are a POS. The ACS $15.00 Nico Press
squeezer is barely adequate for the assembly of 1 project. I have 2
fittings to go and the squeezer is about shot.
90% done, 95% to go!
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
2/22/2008 6:39 PM
Message 17
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Chris,
Don't get side-tracked on stab position and stick with the drawing. Fly
it with the saddle in place and
let it go at that. Few people find the 601s stab a problem after the
build. More likely you'll find a CG problem
that needs to be taken care of before testing. Make sure you get that
right.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
chris Sinfield wrote:
>
> Q For all those people that were talking about adjusting the Horizontal stab
when flight testing.
>
> how much messing about with the saddle was required for each change?
>
> Did you have to buy a new fiberglass saddle each time ?
>
> Could you flight test it without the saddle? get the right angle and then install
the saddle?
>
> Chris.
> Do not archive
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery |
Hi Jeff,
The seats are easily done with plywood backs or fiberglass. Automotive
foams are cheaper and perhaps
easier to get hold of at many sewing and fabric outlets. Density is
something you want to pay attention to.
Confor foam is expensive beyond practical concerns, but for flammability
perhaps. I've a page on
seat construction that may explain the process. See link below.
Seat backs need only go an inch or more above the shelf or to shoulder
support height. Easier to get
belts over your shoulders if you don't go too high. Head rests are for
the flying public and passengers
but I wouldn't recommend them because of a need for access to the rear
shelf during flight.
http://www.macsmachine.com/html/seatupholstery.htm
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jeff wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I'm working with the seats now too. I have found that there really are
> three parts to the seats. These are the cushions, the seat backs, and the
> upholstery.
>
> My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material. The fiberglass
> (reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site appears to
> be a better solution. I guess I'll just have to learn to use fiberglass.
>
> For the cushions, several types of foam are available from common soft foam
> to Confor Foam. Both Hi-Tech Seats and Oregon Aero have patterns for the
> 601 using Confor foam. Oregon Aero is more than twice the price of Hi-Tech,
> but includes a multi-piece seat with professionally contoured shapes. Does
> anyone have either installed?
>
> I checked with a local auto upholstery shop, and getting the cover done
> should be the easiest part.
>
> I have a couple questions:
>
> How far above the baggage shelf should the headrest portion of the seatback
> extend to protect our heads? Most of the pictures I see just have a large
> arc or simple straight edge as the top of the seat back. Is there a reason
> that there is no head rest? Should the seats be more like the bucket seats
> in a car with integral head rests? Is it just personal preference? I just
> measured my plane and came up with 300 mm above the shelf for the top of the
> headrest assuming a 3 inch foam seat over the seat pan. How do the
> Flightcrafters or Zenith seats compare?
>
> Thanks ....
>
> Jeff D.
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cut-out |
When the plane is completely done, is when I bothered with the saddle. the very
last thing right before first flight. measure 20 then cut once, then measure
20 , cut once, etc... fits nice and snug now.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>Sent: Feb 23, 2008 12:43 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder cut-out
>
>
>You're right Bill,
>but you do need to put the rear top skins on before you get into fitting
>the saddle. Then you have the dimensions
>needed and the estimate of fit to make it work. Don't know anyone
>that's succeeded in putting it on before the
>rear top skin. Even trimming the rear top skin for the stab is a pain,
>but that needs doing too.
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/rudderfairing.gif
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/fitfairing.gif
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/ruddernose.gif
>The rudder, elevator bellcrank and rear top skin fitted for the nose of
>the stabilizer, then the saddle.
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/runuprear.gif
>The saddle is a bitch to get in until you learn to spread the sides of
>it as you draw it back under the rudder far
>enough to get the front edge under the rear top skin. You have to not
>trim too much from your rear top skin to
>allow fasteners and rudder gap and bellcrank their proper clearances. It
>gets close with this piece.
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/bhorn.gif
>The two screws you see on each side screw into tinnermans on a short
>standard angle. The front of the saddle
>is fitted with 3 tinnermans and I have screws going thru the rear top
>skin and into the tinnermans. That was my
>solution to the forward and rear side attach points.
>
>Hope this helps a bit,
>
>Larry McFarland
>
>
>Bill Naumuk wrote:
>> Here's a picture.
>> Bill
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 10:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder cut-out
>>
>>
>>> Larry-
>>> Having troubles- hell, I'm flying blind! I have absolutely no
>>> print or manual information about installing the saddle whatsoever. I
>>> don't even know if I can install the saddle now, before the rear top
>>> fuse skins are on. I wanted to get the empennage rough-rigged and my
>>> belly strobe wired before closing in the rear of the fuse, if possible.
>>> 1. How does the saddle attach to the stab? You had one picture in
>>> the archives that had two (Bolts/rivets) located at the aft end of
>>> the saddle. I would assume, then, that you used some standard angle
>>> for a mount. Did you continue the angle and hole pattern the entire
>>> length of the attachment area or just in the area shown in the picture?
>>> 2. Once the bottom edge is contoured to the stab, I'm assuming you
>>> follow the angle of the top of the saddle to meet the spar, plus 5mm
>>> clearance for the rudder nose skin cut.
>>> 3. Do you leave the flat top of the saddle closed, or are you
>>> supposed to cut it out?
>>> You know from my experience with the outboard fairings that I hate
>>> fiberglass, and it hates me. I'll be damned if I go through 3 saddles
>>> before I get it right this time.
>>> I intend to line the saddle on the CL with the top vertex even
>>> with the front of the nose skin. Then, I'll use a spacer to trace the
>>> contour of the stab and cut the bottom of the saddle. This will allow
>>> me to lay out the rudder nose skin cut.
>>> After cutting the nose skin, I'll trace the perimeter outline of
>>> the saddle to the stab, adjust for the thickness of the fiberglass,
>>> and install standard angle to the top of the stab for as long as
>>> practical.
>>> Sound like a plan? Let me know if I should wait until the top rear
>>> fuse skins are on. (I don't think they're a factor).
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland"
>>> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder cut-out
>>>
>>>
>>>> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>> Are you having difficulty cutting the line that separates the rudder
>>>> from the saddle piece?
>>>> I've got a 5mm clearance between the saddle and the rudder. Getting
>>>> the elevator bellcrank
>>>> clearance and then the gap at the rudder is tricky.
>>>> Place the saddle with crank clearance first. Then work up trim on
>>>> the rudder. Then fill the
>>>> bottom of the rudder with a bulkhead flanges up.
>>>>
>>>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>>>
>>>> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>>>>> All-
>>>>> Nearly out of airframe parts!
>>>>> Need some help on this.
>>>>> Anyone have a surefire way of cutting the rudder nose skin to
>>>>> fit the stab and rudder fairing? All suggestions welcome,
>>>>> especially from flying people.
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> Bill Naumuk
>>>>> Townville, Pa.
>>>>> HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Where's the Love? |
Here's the Love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQCF6Ab7ITU
Motivation for the week.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Omaha, Nebraska
35 hours and counting
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165839#165839
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
Friend,
I'm sorry that you feel you must sell your XL. Such decisions are never easy.
I would like to point out that in my flying career I have worked with two pilots
who had sight in only one eye and each went on to earn their private licenses.
One owned and flew a Piper Arrow for many years. Also, let us not forget
the great Wiley Post.
Good luck!
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165842#165842
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
Also, Saburu Sakai, Japan's greatest living ace. Lost one eye in 1943 and
went on to score many more kills (over 80 total)!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Do not archive!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote
Friend,
I'm sorry that you feel you must sell your XL. Such decisions are never
easy.
I would like to point out that in my flying career I have worked with two
pilots who had sight in only one eye and each went on to earn their private
licenses. One owned and flew a Piper Arrow for many years. Also, let us
not forget the great Wiley Post.
Good luck!
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165842#165842
Message 23
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To the friend that lost an eye:
As Tim Juhl pointed out, there are one-eyed pilots. We had one at the
airline I flew for. He was grounded for about a year before getting
his medical back and then another year before he was back in the left
seat.
It's possible--Good Luck.
Stan
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Michael Honer
To: Zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote
I have lost the sight of my left eye, and will sell my carefully built
601XL for about one half of what I have in it.
Includes Jab 3300 mounted in fitted cowling, firewall forward, dual
sticks, hinged ailerons, aileron trim. Fuselage ,wings and tail are
complete and have been test mounted and cables rigged. wings are back
off.
fuselage is complete less about half the work to finish the
canopy...Ready to install the systems, decide what instruments and
radios to buy and to put in it and do that job.
Airplane is in N.C., and can be had for $17,500. Off- line inquiries
please...Lots of pictures
EAA guy says "excellent"
amhoner@rtmc.net...336-857-1151
where is aircraft located.what kind of gear.single stick or dual
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: One-eyed Pilots |
Heck, I dont have brains and I fly..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:31 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: One-eyed Pilots
>
> To the friend that lost an eye:
>
> As Tim Juhl pointed out, there are one-eyed pilots. We had one at the
> airline I flew for. He was grounded for about a year before getting
> his medical back and then another year before he was back in the left
> seat.
>
> It's possible--Good Luck.
>
> Stan
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
What you pay attention to matters much more than how many eyes you see
things with. Disappointment is inevitable. Surrender, however, is still
optional. Give it a while. It seems a shame to walk away from an
excellent aircraft.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Michael Honer
To: Zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote
I have lost the sight of my left eye, and will sell my carefully
built 601XL for about one half of what I have in it.
Includes Jab 3300 mounted in fitted cowling, firewall forward, dual
sticks, hinged ailerons, aileron trim. Fuselage ,wings and tail are
complete and have been test mounted and cables rigged. wings are back
off.
fuselage is complete less about half the work to finish the
canopy...Ready to install the systems, decide what instruments and
radios to buy and to put in it and do that job.
Airplane is in N.C., and can be had for $17,500. Off- line inquiries
please...Lots of pictures
EAA guy says "excellent"
amhoner@rtmc.net...336-857-1151
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
Please, please, PLEASE......do yourself a really BIG FAVOR (and the rest of us
that are feeling your pain and sorrow). Do NOT SELL YOUR LOVE OF FLIGHT!! Hold
on to your airplane for several years until you get a more definitive idea
of what your limitations are. As others have said to you before, they know of,
or are personal friends of people that HAVE FLOWN and DO FLY with only one eye!!
Sure, things are going to be hard to adjust to at first, but in time, your
body DOES learn to adapt - and it adapts quite well for the most part. Give
yourself some space and time. Do those things you need to to complete your
"baby".....I would hate to see you give up this dream while you're in this state
of mind. Learn to drive your car first and then see how it goes. Remember
too, you do NOT NEED a General Aviation License to fly this! You can claim you
will fly this under the new Light Sport Class, which you only need a valid
driver's license!! DO NOT go for another flight medical.....you do not want to
be denied for any reason. You do NOT need a medical to fly under the Light
Sport!!! Please check out what I am telling you. The Zodiac CH601XL IS A "PERFECT"
Light Sport aircraft!
I hope I've given you something to really think about and a sense of hope for your
future in flying.....don't EVER give up your dreams!
Blue Skies Always,
Larry H
--------
Larry Hursh (N601LL Reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165863#165863
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
Personal experience: During my fuselage build, I suffered a detached retina.
Beyond surgery, part of the correction was inserting a gas bubble in the eyeball
to keep the retina pressed against the lining of the eyeball. The gas was
slowly absorbed and it was gone in about six weeks. But while it was there, I
couldn't see through that bubble; so I had single eye vision for a while. Sure,
it really eliminated "normal" depth perception, but I kept building. I keenly
recall drilling the flap actuator bracket to its support, upside down, using
a mirror and one good eye. It CAN be done. Please give yourself some time to
adjust before deciding to chuck it. Please.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
"skyridersbn" <skyridersbn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Please, please, PLEASE......do yourself a really BIG FAVOR (and the rest of us
that are feeling your pain and sorrow). Do NOT SELL YOUR LOVE OF FLIGHT!! Hold
on to your airplane for several years until you get a more definitive idea
of what your limitations are. As others have said to you before, they know of,
or are personal friends of people that HAVE FLOWN and DO FLY with only one
eye!! Sure, things are going to be hard to adjust to at first, but in time, your
body DOES learn to adapt - and it adapts quite well for the most part. Give
yourself some space and time. Do those things you need to to complete your
"baby".....I would hate to see you give up this dream while you're in this state
of mind. Learn to drive your car first and then see how it goes. Remember
too, you do NOT NEED a General Aviation License to fly this! You can claim
you will fly this under the new Light Sport Class, which you only need a valid
driver's license!! DO NOT go for another flight med!
> ical.....you do not want to be denied for any reason. You do NOT need a medical
to fly under the Light Sport!!! Please check out what I am telling you.
The Zodiac CH601XL IS A "PERFECT" Light Sport aircraft!
>
>I hope I've given you something to really think about and a sense of hope for
your future in flying.....don't EVER give up your dreams!
>
>Blue Skies Always,
>Larry H
>
>--------
>Larry Hursh (N601LL Reserved)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165863#165863
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: One-eyed Pilots |
which airline was that so that I avoid it.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
>Sent: Feb 23, 2008 7:31 PM
>To: Zenith List <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: One-eyed Pilots
>
>
>To the friend that lost an eye:
>
>As Tim Juhl pointed out, there are one-eyed pilots. We had one at the
>airline I flew for. He was grounded for about a year before getting
>his medical back and then another year before he was back in the left
>seat.
>
>It's possible--Good Luck.
>
>Stan
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
If you haven't lost you medical yet then you can fly as a sport pilot - no
questions asked. The only medical requirement for sport pilot is that you
hold a valid driver's license.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Michael
Honer
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:40 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote
I have lost the sight of my left eye, and will sell my carefully built 601XL
for about one half of what I have in it.
Includes Jab 3300 mounted in fitted cowling, firewall forward, dual sticks,
hinged ailerons, aileron trim. Fuselage ,wings and tail are complete and
have been test mounted and cables rigged. wings are back off.
fuselage is complete less about half the work to finish the canopy...Ready
to install the systems, decide what instruments and radios to buy and to put
in it and do that job.
Airplane is in N.C., and can be had for $17,500. Off- line inquiries
please...Lots of pictures
EAA guy says "excellent"
amhoner@rtmc.net...336-857-1151
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: One-eyed Pilots |
> My flight instructor only had one eye, but he could
> teach a blind man to fly. Don't give up...
--- steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
>
> Heck, I dont have brains and I fly..
>
> SW
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
> To: "Zenith List" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:31 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: One-eyed Pilots
>
>
> Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
> >
> > To the friend that lost an eye:
> >
> > As Tim Juhl pointed out, there are one-eyed
> pilots. We had one at the
> > airline I flew for. He was grounded for about a
> year before getting
> > his medical back and then another year before he
> was back in the left
> > seat.
> >
> > It's possible--Good Luck.
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 32
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It's going to change with the temperature. The best you can do is warm up everything
and assemble and rivet. When it cools it will be as tight as it is going
to be. Some folks place everything in the sun to warm it up, me, living in
the great gray north, use a furnace to heat up the entire garage.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165877#165877
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the Love? |
> Perhaps the one eyed pilot should get some incentive
> not to give up flying after he sees this video..
--- cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Here's the Love:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQCF6Ab7ITU
>
> Motivation for the week.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
> Omaha, Nebraska
> 35 hours and counting
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165839#165839
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 34
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I adjusted the rear hor. stab. mounts. No need to do anything to the
saddle.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Toughest e-mail I ever wrote |
This is a poem my father taught me that has helped many times in my life.
It Couldn't Be Done
Edgar Guest
Somebody said that it couldn't be done,
But he with a chuckle replied
That "maybe it couldn't," but he would be one
Who wouldn't say so till he'd tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.
Somebody scoffed: "Oh, you'll never do that;
At least no one ever has done it";
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat,
And the first thing we knew he'd begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.
There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure;
There are thousands to point out to you, one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start to sing as you tackle the thing
That "cannot be done," and you'll do it.
Many good people here want to see you continue with your dream of flying. Give
it time.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165890#165890
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Saddle, pt II |
Dred-
Sounds good. Any pictures? Wondering about the male connector.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Moody II
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Saddle, pt II
For the five conductor trim cable, go to Radio Shack and buy the panel
mount plug for a CB mic. It has five pins and has a locking ring to keep
it securely plugged.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 2:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Saddle, pt II
All-
On lister advice, decided to wait until rear top skins were in
place before fitting the saddle. Rough rigged elevator; will have to
pore over ACS catalog to get electrical fittings to connect tail light,
elevator trim, and belly strobe. Will also have to install a fitting
attached to the lower fuse to support cables. Then I can install the
rear fuse top skins.
Note: HF cable cutting pliers are a POS. The ACS $15.00 Nico
Press squeezer is barely adequate for the assembly of 1 project. I have
2 fittings to go and the squeezer is about shot.
90% done, 95% to go!
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS Fuse/Corvair
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Release Date: 2/22/2008 6:39 PM
Message 37
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I installed my saddle yesterday and here's what I did.
From the plans, I plotted and drew out the top half
of the HT rib on a piece of cardboard. I cut that out
and used it to transfer the curve to the bottom of the
saddle with a sharpie. Sanded to the line and had a
nearly perfect fit. A little fine tuning and it was
ready to drill and cleco.
Rich Vetterli
Pleasanton, CA
CH601XL under construction
Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 38
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Rich-
Hmm. More than one way to skin a cat. I was going to level the saddle
and duct tape it directly on the stab. Then run a Sharpie line using a
spacer to get an acceptable height.
If nothing else, we're getting a lot of ideas into the archives. When I
looked this morning, there wasn't much to speak of.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Vetterli" <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 12:02 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Saddle
> <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
>
> I installed my saddle yesterday and here's what I did.
> From the plans, I plotted and drew out the top half
> of the HT rib on a piece of cardboard. I cut that out
> and used it to transfer the curve to the bottom of the
> saddle with a sharpie. Sanded to the line and had a
> nearly perfect fit. A little fine tuning and it was
> ready to drill and cleco.
>
> Rich Vetterli
> Pleasanton, CA
> CH601XL under construction
> Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
>
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
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