Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (Jeff)
2. 05:09 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (David Downey)
3. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (David Downey)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (Jay Maynard)
5. 05:52 AM - Re: what if? elevator trim tab runaway (Thomas Saniewski)
6. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (Bill Naumuk)
7. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (Dave Austin)
8. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (Jaybannist@cs.com)
9. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (steve)
10. 07:55 AM - Re: Not your usual accident report (Bryan Martin)
11. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Cable farings (Bryan Martin)
12. 10:42 AM - Thanks for the freebie Matt! (THOMAS SMALL)
13. 04:14 PM - Re: Rudder Cable farings (Edward Moody II)
14. 04:15 PM - 701 Fuel Caps leaking (Joe Spencer)
15. 06:04 PM - Re: Flying Today - Steep Turns (Ron Lendon)
16. 06:08 PM - Re: 701 Fuel Caps leaking (n801bh@netzero.com)
17. 06:33 PM - Aircraft Quality (Jaybannist@cs.com)
18. 06:46 PM - Re: Aircraft Quality (steve)
19. 07:14 PM - Re: 701 Fuel Caps leaking (stepinwolf)
20. 07:35 PM - Re: Aircraft Quality (Kevin L. Rupert)
21. 07:47 PM - 701 Fuel Caps leaking (Joe Spencer)
22. 08:32 PM - Re: Aircraft Quality (JohnDRead@aol.com)
23. 08:33 PM - Re: 701 Fuel Caps leaking (JohnDRead@aol.com)
24. 09:09 PM - Re: Aircraft Quality (John Smith)
25. 10:09 PM - Re: 701 Fuel Caps leaking (n801bh@netzero.com)
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
FWIW: I cut the N66 with a common hacksaw and cleaned up the cut with a
simple (Nicholson) file. No problems at all.
Jeff Davidson
....
But seriously guys how are you cutting this stuff? I have tried the
following tablesaw (kickback safety issues not recommended), router (same),
dremmel with cutoff wheel and now I am using a larger pneumatic cutoff wheel
which more or less melts and slings pieces of melted plastic all over me and
it stinks like hell. There must be a better way.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
Nylon will usually cut beautifully with a bandsaw and a 4 tpi skip tooth blade.
Alternatively, cut a 3/8" hole in a piece of 3/4" or 1" plywood/MDF and screw
a sabresaw to the back with a coarse tooth blade mounted and sticking up through
the hole - poor man's bandsaw.
To finish, use very sharp drills/bits. I usually use a 2 or 3 flute router mounted
in a table to clean up edges - if you use sandpaper, the finshed edge will
collect dirt and be very ugly over time. Just shave the edges taking a very small
amount of material off in a pass - never plow. The burr remaing in the edge
is best removed by use of a brand new, very sharp #11 X-acto blade/handle and
trimming carefully at 45.
I would like to take a moment to express my frustration with this step... I have
now spent 3 or more hours fiddling with this damn step. It looks so simple
in the manual...
I HATE cutting this material. The nylon fairlead material is not as similar to
plexiglass as one would think. It splinters, cracks and is generally a miserable
material to work with.
I guess the same properties of this material that make it a pain in the a$$ also
make it durable enough to use as a material that will constantly be being rubbed
by a piece of steel cable.
OK. I'm done venting.
But seriously guys how are you cutting this stuff? I have tried the following
tablesaw (kickback safety issues not recommended), router (same), dremmel with
cutoff wheel and now I am using a larger pneumatic cutoff wheel which more or
less melts and slings pieces of melted plastic all over me and it stinks like
hell. There must be a better way.
As far as positioning goes I am only drilling two of the holes at this point so
that if I need to tweak the location a little I can I'll drill the rest when
I actually install rudder and start adjusting controls. I don't think you can
truly know if everything is just right until you try to run the cables. If
you rivet everything all together and then realize that you should have filed
a little more of the fairlead material away then there you are drilling out rivets.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm tired of drilling out rivets.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167200#167200
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
by the way, what usually wears out in time is the cable - not the Nylon fairlead!
The better aligned to the likely range of position of the cable in use, the
longer the cable will last!
Paul Riedlinger <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote: Cut mine on a bandsaw no problem. You
have a bit of flashing to deal with, but it comes off very easily with an exacto
knife. Drilling created some flash that needs to be cleaned up with an
exacto as well.
My method was to:
1) Locate, cut and drill the rudder cable exit fairings first.
2) Clamp the N66 material to the fairing and drill matching holes
3) Rough cut the clecoed assembly (fairing and N66) from the N66 sheet with a bandsaw
4) With everything still clecoed together, use a belt sander, using brief contact
and then allowing for a quick cool down and then back at it, to bring the
N66 to the same dimension as the fairing. It took me about 5 minutes per fairing
to get the N66 cut and sanded to size
5) trim any flashing of the material with a sharp exacto knife.
FYI, on the plans it tells you to cut an angled slot in the fairlead material,
but I peaked at at fellow builder's quick build fuse and the factory just cuts
a slot to match the one machined into the prepunched fuse side. I did the same
with a milling machine cutter in a machining vise on a drill press.
Detail can be seen on my blog at www.mykitlog.com/paulried/
Hope that helps
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 12:22 AM, MHerder <michaelherder@beckgroup.com> wrote:
I would like to take a moment to express my frustration with this step... I have
now spent 3 or more hours fiddling with this damn step. It looks so simple
in the manual...
I HATE cutting this material. The nylon fairlead material is not as similar to
plexiglass as one would think. It splinters, cracks and is generally a miserable
material to work with.
I guess the same properties of this material that make it a pain in the a$$ also
make it durable enough to use as a material that will constantly be being rubbed
by a piece of steel cable.
OK. I'm done venting.
But seriously guys how are you cutting this stuff? I have tried the following
tablesaw (kickback safety issues not recommended), router (same), dremmel with
cutoff wheel and now I am using a larger pneumatic cutoff wheel which more or
less melts and slings pieces of melted plastic all over me and it stinks like
hell. There must be a better way.
As far as positioning goes I am only drilling two of the holes at this point so
that if I need to tweak the location a little I can I'll drill the rest when
I actually install rudder and start adjusting controls. I don't think you can
truly know if everything is just right until you try to run the cables. If
you rivet everything all together and then realize that you should have filed
a little more of the fairlead material away then there you are drilling out rivets.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm tired of drilling out rivets.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167200#167200
--
Paul Riedlinger
cndmovn@gmail.com
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
On Sun, Mar 02, 2008 at 01:52:31AM -0500, JohnDRead@aol.com wrote:
> Nylon 66 is a good material for fairleads because of its wear
> characteristics, as you have found it is a pain to machine though. Rough
> shaping can be done on a bandsaw but for final accurate shaping the best way
is to
> use a milling machine and high speed steel end mills. A light spray of water
> is all that is needed to keep the workpiece and the cutter cool.
Sounds like a candidate for molding in the proper shape...is there a drawing
I can see somewhere online?
do not archive
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: what if? elevator trim tab runaway |
I have talked with some of the guys in my EAA group. most are RV's, and they said
that a runaway does not happen that often, but they do run it to the limit
and fly. They say it is not that difficult to control, just slow down and fly
the plane. A breaker would be good to stop the servo from driving and burning
out. Good luck Tom, saving for wings.
Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote: I don't see how a circuit breaker or fuse would
help at all if you have run-away trim. By the time you turn off the power
to the trim servo, the trim will already be crashed into one end of the travel
or the other. Turning off the power just guarantees it will stay there.
Fortunately, I have heard reports that it doesn't take super-human strength to
overcome full limit trim.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:59 AM 2/29/2008, you wrote:
I second Dave Gallagher's advice regarding a CB for the trim. The RAC instructions
advise a 2amp fuse or breaker so buy a breaker that can be shut off if the
problem arises. That's what I did as well.
Dred
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
Band saw and belt sander. Compared to some other tasks I can think of, no
problem.
Bill
do
not archive
> I HATE cutting this material. The nylon fairlead material is not as
> similar to plexiglass as one would think. It splinters, cracks and is
> generally a miserable material to work with.
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
Hacksaw.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
Michael,
I've used a hacksaw to cut, then dressed with sandpaper. Hand tools and hand work
get the job done. Power just melts the stuff.
Jay in Dallas
"MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com> wrote:
>
>I would like to take a moment to express my frustration with this step... I have
now spent 3 or more hours fiddling with this damn step. It looks so simple
in the manual...
>
>I HATE cutting this material. The nylon fairlead material is not as similar to
plexiglass as one would think. It splinters, cracks and is generally a miserable
material to work with.
>
>I guess the same properties of this material that make it a pain in the a$$ also
make it durable enough to use as a material that will constantly be being rubbed
by a piece of steel cable.
>
>OK. I'm done venting.
>
>But seriously guys how are you cutting this stuff? I have tried the following
tablesaw (kickback safety issues not recommended), router (same), dremmel with
cutoff wheel and now I am using a larger pneumatic cutoff wheel which more or
less melts and slings pieces of melted plastic all over me and it stinks like
hell. There must be a better way.
>
>As far as positioning goes I am only drilling two of the holes at this point so
that if I need to tweak the location a little I can I'll drill the rest when
I actually install rudder and start adjusting controls. I don't think you can
truly know if everything is just right until you try to run the cables. If
you rivet everything all together and then realize that you should have filed
a little more of the fairlead material away then there you are drilling out rivets.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm tired of drilling out rivets.
>
>--------
>One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167200#167200
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
There is an old receipe for working with plastics such as nylon etc. Freeze
the material and it will work easily in this state...
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:36 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Rudder Cable farings
>
> Michael,
>
> I've used a hacksaw to cut, then dressed with sandpaper. Hand tools and
> hand work get the job done. Power just melts the stuff.
>
> Jay in Dallas
>
> "MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I would like to take a moment to express my frustration with this step...
>>I have now spent 3 or more hours fiddling with this damn step. It looks
>>so simple in the manual...
>>
>>I HATE cutting this material. The nylon fairlead material is not as
>>similar to plexiglass as one would think. It splinters, cracks and is
>>generally a miserable material to work with.
>>
>>I guess the same properties of this material that make it a pain in the
>>a$$ also make it durable enough to use as a material that will constantly
>>be being rubbed by a piece of steel cable.
>>
>>OK. I'm done venting.
>>
>>But seriously guys how are you cutting this stuff? I have tried the
>>following tablesaw (kickback safety issues not recommended), router
>>(same), dremmel with cutoff wheel and now I am using a larger pneumatic
>>cutoff wheel which more or less melts and slings pieces of melted plastic
>>all over me and it stinks like hell. There must be a better way.
>>
>>As far as positioning goes I am only drilling two of the holes at this
>>point so that if I need to tweak the location a little I can I'll drill
>>the rest when I actually install rudder and start adjusting controls. I
>>don't think you can truly know if everything is just right until you try
>>to run the cables. If you rivet everything all together and then realize
>>that you should have filed a little more of the fairlead material away
>>then there you are drilling out rivets. I don't know about the rest of
>>you, but I'm tired of drilling out rivets.
>>
>>--------
>>One Rivet at a Time!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167200#167200
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Not your usual accident report |
For the amount of money this program costs, you'd think they'd have
put a little more thought in the design of the operator consoles. The
same lever operates a fuel control valve in one instance and a camera
lens in another? They didn't think to use dedicated controls for
critical flight functions?
On Mar 2, 2008, at 1:18 AM, Craig Payne wrote:
> >
>
> But fascinating reading. I would love to hear Brandon Tucker's
> feedback
> since he flies one of these things:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060509X00531&key=1
>
> NTSB Identification: CHI06MA121.
> The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please
> contact
> Records Management Division
> 14 CFR Public Use
> Accident occurred Tuesday, April 25, 2006 in Nogales, AZ
> Probable Cause Approval Date: 10/31/2007
> Aircraft: General Atomics Predator B, registration: None
> Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
I used a hack saw, it probably cuts through this stuff faster than a
cut-off wheel. A cut-off wheel is great for steel, not so good for
softer stuff.
> >
>
>
> But seriously guys how are you cutting this stuff? I have tried the
> following tablesaw (kickback safety issues not recommended), router
> (same), dremmel with cutoff wheel and now I am using a larger
> pneumatic cutoff wheel which more or less melts and slings pieces of
> melted plastic all over me and it stinks like hell. There must be a
> better way.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Thanks for the freebie Matt! |
Clever to hide it in the Guidelines as no one reads them. Will be much
appreciated here. When will it be sent out?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:01 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
> Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
> following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
> ******************************************************************************
> Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
> ******************************************************************************
>
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> -------
>
>
> [This is an automated posting.]
>
> do not archive
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable farings |
I found that drilling and deburring a hole at the terminus of the slot
in the fairlead, then cutting to the hole with a bandsaw worked well.
Dred
Message 14
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| Subject: | 701 Fuel Caps leaking |
Those with flying 701's
Have you had a problem with your fuel caps leaking and if so what did
you do for a fix? I have tried about a half dozen different gaskets and
no success. Believe now that the fuel may be getting between the cap and
the doubler inside it and then sucking out.
Thanks Joe
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Today - Steep Turns |
Beautiful Scott! I'm' starting to think the polishing is the way to go for finish.
Great picture.
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167322#167322
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuel Caps leaking |
Joe. On my 801 the fuel caps leaked on the very first flight and stained
my Dupont Imron 300 bucks a gallon aircraft paint. I was not a happy bo
y......... The 701/ 801 wings are a very high lift airfoil and thus has
alot of low pressure on top of the wing. If my tanks are 3/4 or more ful
l they would leak through the caps by way of the vent system built into
them. Luckily I had made provisions to vent all of my tanks from below t
he wing where high pressure exists. All I did was to epoxy up the vent h
oles in the caps and my issue went away. The other simple way is to sold
er on some forward facing vent tubes onto your caps so they will slight
ly pressurize your tanks and stop the caps from siphoning out the fuel.
I am guessing your problem only happens at full tanks??
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Joe Spencer" <jpspencer@cableone.net> wrote:
Those with flying 701'sHave you had a problem with your fuel caps leakin
g and if so what did you do for a fix? I have tried about a half dozen d
ifferent gaskets and no success. Believe now that the fuel may be gettin
g between the cap and the doubler inside it and then sucking out.Thanks
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
====
_____________________________________________________________
Click now to find a divorce attorney near you!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vCQDMaNkyiPpaEPOSH
YiGlqoUsTJKHAQBkkbLXagjmOiCam/
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| Subject: | Aircraft Quality |
I'm very curious. What makes a bolt "aircraft quality"? I've tried Google and
Yahoo and have not gotten any REAL answer. Just "always use aircraft quality."
If a Grade 8 bolt has the same tensile strength as an AN bolt, what makes
the AN superior? Can someone fill me in?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Quality |
What makes a "certified" aircraft safe ?
It has FAA seal of approval..
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:30 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Quality
>
> I'm very curious. What makes a bolt "aircraft quality"? I've tried
> Google and Yahoo and have not gotten any REAL answer. Just "always use
> aircraft quality." If a Grade 8 bolt has the same tensile strength as an
> AN bolt, what makes the AN superior? Can someone fill me in?
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuel Caps leaking |
On more then one occasion, I have seen photos of forward facing vent tubes that
are part of the gas cap. As the previous post ( Ben ) explains, it serves to
increase the inner tank pressure, there by eliminating the fuel leakage or siphoning
from the fuel cap.
Would I be correct in assuming that with this type of forward facing vents, there
most certainly would be some water ingested into the fuel tanks, were the plane
to fly through low level clouds, or some rain showers.
Bob the 701 scratch
do not archive
--------
Live each day, as if it was your last
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167342#167342
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Quality |
Every AN bolt, nut, washer, etc has to meet the criteria for a mil spec
and is QC'ed to that spec. SAE grades, such as a grade 8's, has an
inspection done on only a few in a batch. The ones that are not
inspected are a crap shoot.
Message 21
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| Subject: | 701 Fuel Caps leaking |
Ben
Thanks for the reply. I brazed on forward facing 3 inch high fuel vent
tubes while building the plane. I don't believe that's the problem...am
thinking it's maybe more of a problem with the double walled fuel caps
supplied by Zenith in the kit...the fuel may be getting between the 2
parts of the cap and then getting sucked out regardless of gasket
integrity???You are correct in that it only happens when near full.
Thanks again
Joe
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Quality |
It is to do with the accuracy with which the bolts and nuts are
manufactured, form of the thread etc. There is a small radii between the head
and the
bolt shank that properly distributes the load on the head. The tensile strength
of the steel is only one characteristic. The standards are set by the Army
and Navy hence the AN part of the part number not the FAA.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 3/2/2008 7:47:49 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "steve" <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
What makes a "certified" aircraft safe ?
It has FAA seal of approval..
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:30 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Quality
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com
>
> I'm very curious. What makes a bolt "aircraft quality"? I've tried
> Google and Yahoo and have not gotten any REAL answer. Just "always use
> aircraft quality." If a Grade 8 bolt has the same tensile strength as an
> AN bolt, what makes the AN superior? Can someone fill me in?
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
>
>
>
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Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuel Caps leaking |
I heard that Zenith will modify the fuel tank caps to add the vent tubes, if
you ask nicely.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 3/2/2008 7:09:53 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
n801bh@netzero.com writes:
Joe. On my 801 the fuel caps leaked on the very first flight and stained my
Dupont Imron 300 bucks a gallon aircraft paint. I was not a happy boy.........
The 701/ 801 wings are a very high lift airfoil and thus has alot of low
pressure on top of the wing. If my tanks are 3/4 or more full they would leak
through the caps by way of the vent system built into them. Luckily I had made
provisions to vent all of my tanks from below the wing where high pressure
exists. All I did was to epoxy up the vent holes in the caps and my issue went
away. The other simple way is to solder on some forward facing vent tubes
onto your caps so they will slightly pressurize your tanks and stop the caps
from siphoning out the fuel. I am guessing your problem only happens at full
tanks??
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Joe Spencer" <jpspencer@cableone.net> wrote:
Those with flying 701's
Have you had a problem with your fuel caps leaking and if so what did you do
for a fix? I have tried about a half dozen different gaskets and no success.
Believe now that the fuel may be getting between the cap and the doubler
inside it and then sucking out.
Thanks Joe
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Quality |
Are you suggesting that, unlike SAE, every AN items get inspected? If not, wouldn't
uninspected AN be potentially crap shoot as well?
Every AN bolt, nut, washer, etc has to meet the criteria for a mil spec
and is QC'ed to that spec. SAE grades, such as a grade 8's, has an
inspection done on only a few in a batch. The ones that are not
inspected are a crap shoot.
---------------------------------
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuel Caps leaking |
I think you are correct in determining that the issue is the area where
the double walls are.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Joe Spencer" <jpspencer@cableone.net> wrote:
BenThanks for the reply. I brazed on forward facing 3 inch high fuel ven
t tubes while building the plane. I don't believe that's the problem...a
m thinking it's maybe more of a problem with the double walled fuel caps
supplied by Zenith in the kit...the fuel may be getting between the 2 p
arts of the cap and then getting sucked out regardless of gasket integri
ty???You are correct in that it only happens when near full.Thanks again
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