---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/08/08: 58 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:47 AM - Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Dave Johnson) 2. 03:34 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Paul Mulwitz) 3. 03:53 AM - Re: I have to share. (David Downey) 4. 05:02 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (george may) 5. 05:15 AM - Re: Needley engine (kmccune) 6. 05:47 AM - Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Juan Vega) 7. 05:49 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Juan Vega) 8. 06:02 AM - Re: Fuel System Questions (MacDonald Doug) 9. 06:12 AM - Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (rgeese) 10. 06:15 AM - Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Dave Nixon) 11. 06:40 AM - Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (GLJSOJ1) 12. 06:44 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Bill Steer) 13. 07:08 AM - Re: 601/701/801 seatbelts (Rich) 14. 07:26 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (LarryMcFarland) 15. 07:37 AM - Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (KC7HFA) 16. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (David Downey) 17. 08:08 AM - Needley Engine Comment (Bill Naumuk) 18. 08:26 AM - Re: Fuel System Questions (Terry Phillips) 19. 08:26 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Jaybannist@cs.com) 20. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Jaybannist@cs.com) 21. 08:42 AM - Zenith Response time (Stanley Challgren) 22. 09:12 AM - Re: Fuel System Questions (steve) 23. 09:12 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Leo Gates) 24. 09:16 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (steve) 25. 09:16 AM - Re: Distibutor Cap and Rotor Information (Tim Juhl) 26. 09:17 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Roger Lee) 27. 09:44 AM - Insurance (Dan) 28. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (David Downey) 29. 10:01 AM - Re: Fuel System Questions (Jeff) 30. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Craig Payne) 31. 10:08 AM - 601 locker tanks (Bill Naumuk) 32. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Jaybannist@cs.com) 33. 10:24 AM - Re: I have to share. (Carlos Sa) 34. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Jaybannist@cs.com) 35. 10:40 AM - Re: Fuel System Questions (Terry Phillips) 36. 11:16 AM - Re: Fuel System Questions (Bryan Martin) 37. 11:23 AM - Re: 601 locker tanks (Gary Boothe) 38. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (David Downey) 39. 11:46 AM - Re: Fuel System Questions (MacDonald Doug) 40. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Jay Maynard) 41. 12:03 PM - NASON Oil Presssure Switch (Bill Pagan) 42. 01:20 PM - Re: Needley Engine Comment (Larry H) 43. 01:27 PM - Pump+Switch (Bill Naumuk) 44. 01:56 PM - Re: Pump+Switch (Gary Boothe) 45. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (David Downey) 46. 02:20 PM - Re: Fuel System Questions (Terry Phillips) 47. 02:23 PM - Re: Pump+Switch (Bill Naumuk) 48. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Terry Phillips) 49. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Jay Maynard) 50. 04:54 PM - Re: Pump+Switch (Jerry Latimer) 51. 05:21 PM - Re: Pump+Switch (George Swinford) 52. 05:21 PM - Re: NASON Oil Presssure Switch (Ron Lendon) 53. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Elden Jacobson) 54. 06:15 PM - Re: Pump+Switch (cookwithgas) 55. 08:06 PM - Re: Fuel System Questions (MacDonald Doug) 56. 09:18 PM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Ron Lendon) 57. 10:11 PM - Re: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Terry Phillips) 58. 10:20 PM - Re: Re: Pump+Switch (Terry Phillips) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:33 AM PST US From: "Dave Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon's OAT sensor I mounted mine under the fuselage, just forward of the leading edge of the stabiliser. This was to keep it out of the sun and well clear of engine heat. Dave Johnson 601XL - almost there! ----- Original Message ----- From: "hansriet" Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:12 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon's OAT sensor > > Did anybody mount their Dynon OAT sensor in the right wing? If so where? > If not, where did you mount the OAT sensor? > > Thanks, > > Hans > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168325#168325 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:20 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot After a few years on this list, this is the first time I have seen any real discussion of aircraft insurance. Bravo! I tried getting information on insurance from Avemco and Falcon (EAA's anointed agent), and also spoke to insurance folks at a recent trade show. From my perspective the picture is bleak. Avemco sent me a quote, but it didn't include most of the coverage I wanted. For example, I wanted my wife named as a student pilot and they refused. Also, they refused coverage for my first flights. The Falcon guy was cooperative, but I didn't pursue the question since I was still a long time from finishing my plane. I know the EAA program includes first flight coverage, but I don't know how these guys react to the Sport Pilot issue. I had an interesting conversation with an agent and also an underwriter at the trade show a few weeks ago. I was left with a very sour taste in my mouth. The underwriter seemed interested only in discussing all the reasons his company could find to refuse to pay a claim. One issue offered by the agent in the conversation was coverage would be refused if an accident occurred when the pilot didn't have a current BFR. When I pointed out that there are no longer BFRs from the FAA's perspective the answer I got was the insurance companies demand more from pilots than the FAA does. Another issue raised by the underwriter was "Pilot Warranty". This apparently means the insured owner "Warrants" the skill level of the pilot. If an accident occurs and the pilot is not up to the guaranteed skill level then the claim will be refused - even if the pilot performed perfectly. At this point, I am seriously considering not getting insurance for my plane at all. I would like to have some liability insurance, but that might not work out either. I just don't feel like the insurance companies are delivering what they sell . . . Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 07:39 PM 3/7/2008, you wrote: >I have found that EAA and AOPA "programs" are no special advantage >because they are still agents that buy insurance on the open market >from the same underwriters. Avemco is different, and I find them >much easier to deal with. > >Jim LoBue >601XL >Corvair ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:54 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: I have to share. Go! Go!, Go! Today was a big day for me. After almost a year (39 hours) of flight training, and waiting 8 months for my 3rd class medical, I got to solo today. http://www.steensland.net/images/post-solo.jpg On a side note, I ordered up my tail from zenith this week as well. So I'm officially official! Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:25 AM PST US From: george may Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot "Also, they refused coverage for my first flights." Paul-- I've had Avemco on my Zodiac---liability only. They did cover my first flight for liability, however, I believe they indicated that the hull (if I had it) would not be covered until I had 10 hours on the plane. George May 601XL 912s > > _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120 08 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Needley engine From: "kmccune" Maybe I was jumping the gun a little, this was just on light sportaircraft http://www.lightsportaircraft.ca/volume2-issue8/webcast-4/index.html -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168388#168388 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:57 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon's OAT sensor My Dynon OAT is mounted on the passenger side NACA Vent, so it is out of the way of getting bumped by debries and people. the air path is neutral and not warmed by exhaust. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Johnson >Sent: Mar 8, 2008 4:42 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon's OAT sensor > > >I mounted mine under the fuselage, just forward of the leading edge of the >stabiliser. > >This was to keep it out of the sun and well clear of engine heat. > >Dave Johnson > >601XL - almost there! > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "hansriet" >To: >Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:12 AM >Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon's OAT sensor > > >> >> Did anybody mount their Dynon OAT sensor in the right wing? If so where? >> If not, where did you mount the OAT sensor? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Hans >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168325#168325 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:34 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot i have not seen that just yet. the insurance companies seem a little skittish with having pilots fly with no medical, it is an unknown risk. I have seen guys that got bad strokes, and let their medical laps and are still flying. Ask them what the rate is if you pass a medical. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Kelly Meiste >Sent: Mar 7, 2008 9:20 PM >To: Zenith List >Subject: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot > >The yearly renewal of my 601 HD insurance is now due and was stunned to see my insurance premium jump over 30% this year. > >When I asked my agent from SkySmith (underwriter is AIG) why my rate climbed so much for this year I was shocked to hear their answer. I've just converted over to flying as a Sport Pilot with my HD and they tell me THAT is the reason my rates skyrocketed (see they explanation below). > >" I have been unable to receive a quote from any other companies as they will not provide coverage to pilots >flying in the Sport Category." > >Apparently no one wants to insure Sport Pilots, and those that will see a huge profit to be made with this new classification. >Has anyone else found this to be the case, and if so has anyone found a reasonable Sport Pilot friendly company to insure with? > >Kelly Meiste >601 HD ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:51 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions Because I'm in Canada and that is what is mandated. >From what I understand, the MD-RA (similar to DAR) doesn't like any 1/4 inch in the fuel system at all. Problem is, the Rotax has 1/4 inch fittings on the pump and carbs. Doug MacDonald Do not archive --- John Davis wrote: > Hi Doug, > > So why are you going with 3/8" from the tanks > instead of 1/4" ? > > Thanks, > John > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor From: "rgeese" It's not officially installed yet, but I have installed the wiring to mount it on the left fuselage side, under the wing, just forward of the flap hinge. Here it will be somewhat protected and out of direct sunlight and the exhaust stream. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168399#168399 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor From: "Dave Nixon" I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very good. Dave Nixon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor From: "GLJSOJ1" I put mine under the horizontal stab near the remote compass sensor. -------- 601XL N676L reserved ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168405#168405 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:21 AM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Have you talked to SkySmith? They write insurance for AIG. ins@skysmith.com. Bill Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > After a few years on this list, this is the first time I have seen any > real discussion of aircraft insurance. Bravo! > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:31 AM PST US From: Rich Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601/701/801 seatbelts oh... I forgot to mention that I spoke to Roger several times. Don't know why someone there can't just go to the plane & measure the length. It takes less than 5 minutes... heck, less than 2 minutes. Rich do not archive Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:25 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Hi Kelly, The Sport Pilot allows that a person can drop the medical as an annoyance or conceal medical problems from the insurer. That's probably the short answer and that they don't want to assume more risk without compensation. It's also a great way for them to increase their profitability knowing the actual risks involved. I'm really not surprised and will continue to get the medical so long as I'm able. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Kelly Meiste wrote: > The yearly renewal of my 601 HD insurance is now due and was stunned > to see my insurance premium jump over 30% this year. > > When I asked my agent from SkySmith (underwriter is AIG) why my rate > climbed so much for this year I was shocked to hear their answer. > I've just converted over to flying as a Sport Pilot with my HD and > they tell me THAT is the reason my rates skyrocketed (see they > explanation below). > > " I have been unable to receive a quote from any other companies as > they will not provide coverage to pilots > flying in the Sport Category." > > Apparently no one wants to insure Sport Pilots, and those that will > see a huge profit to be made with this new classification. > Has anyone else found this to be the case, and if so has anyone found > a reasonable Sport Pilot friendly company to insure with? > > Kelly Meiste > 601 HD > * > * ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor From: "KC7HFA" I mounted two, one for the D180 & one for the D100, on each side of the fuselage centered under the horizontal stabilizer. -------- Ron Asbill N601ZX - CH-601 XL Jabiru 3300 Completed and Flying!~ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168417#168417 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:09 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very good. Dave Nixon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:41 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Needley Engine Comment All- I added the remark "WW isn't the best of communicators, either" as an addition to the Needley Engine posting on the Zenith list a couple of days ago and still stand behind it. What people have to realize is that in spite of the fact that WW's organization fails to keep customers informed as to the status of their orders, they offer good components that will be delivered. Case in point: Earlier this year I wrote a check to cover the price of several components. After a few months, I received an e-mail from WW and USPS confirmation that my parts would be sent out "Tuesday", and could he cash the check? I said OK. Nearly a month later, I still hadn't received the parts. What would you think? I e-mailed WW and Grace responded with, "Sorry for the confusion, I'll reschedule shipment". Turns out the parts had come to the post office the day before but I hadn't yet been notified. Communications breakdown both inside and out. Bottom line is I feel like a shit for doubting WWs word, but customers of any company have basic expectations. We're not talking chicken feed here. If any of you placed a $1000 order with ACS, they told you you'd see your parts on a certain day and you didn't see them for a month or hear that they were back-ordered you'd be furious. WW has to learn to comply with the same standard to erase his "Bad businessman" reputation. Any CorvairCraft customer knows he's making great strides. All's well that ends well- I have my parts as promised. WW+Grace, bless you, I'm not picking on you. Just pointing out that as long as customers know the status of their orders chances are they'll continue to be loyal customers. Your loyal customer... Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:39 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions Doug Are the 1/4" fittings on the pump and carb 1/4" NPT or are they 1/4" AN tubing fittings? If they are NPT fittings (like on the Facet 40105 pumps), you should be aware that the i.d. of even 1/8" schedule 40 pipe is 0.269-inch while the i.d. of 1/4" schedule 40 pipe is 0.364". The i.d. of 3/8" aluminum tubing with 0.035 walls is 0.305-inch, which is smaller than 1/4" schedule 40 pipe, and not all that much larger than 1/8" schedule 40 pipe. The i.d. of 1/4" tubing with .035 walls is only 0.18". The flow area for the 3/8" tubing is 2.87 time greater than the 1/4" tubing. So average flow velocities are ~3x greater in the 1/4" tubing than in the 3/8" tubing. IIRC, pressure drop increases roughly as the square of velocity, so pressure drop in 1/4" tubing would be ~8x the pressure drop in the 3/8" tubing. Terry At 06:00 AM 3/8/2008 -0800, you wrote: >Because I'm in Canada and that is what is mandated. > >From what I understand, the MD-RA (similar to DAR) >doesn't like any 1/4 inch in the fuel system at all. >Problem is, the Rotax has 1/4 inch fittings on the >pump and carbs. > >Doug MacDonald >Do not archive Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:40 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Larry, The problem a lot of us older guys have is that we have stuff in the distant past that the FAA medical "Head Water Moccasin" can use to deny a medical, despite having passed an exam. I know that because it happened to me. He doesn't have to have a reason. That is his prerogative. In my case he didn't actually deny my medical. He just said that, in his opinion, I was not fit to fly; but just to show what a great guy I am, I'm going to grant you a "special issuance", good for six years. That still required a medical exam every two years, two of which I passed. When it came time for the third exam, I decided not to chance being denied a medical for no reason. So it is not always to "avoid an annoyance or to conceal a medical problem". Jay in Dallas LarryMcFarland wrote: > >Hi Kelly, >The Sport Pilot allows that a person can drop the medical as an >annoyance or conceal medical problems from the insurer. >That's probably the short answer and that they don't want to assume more >risk without compensation. It's also a great way >for them to increase their profitability knowing the actual risks involved. >I'm really not surprised and will continue to get the medical so long as >I'm able. > >Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > >Kelly Meiste wrote: >> The yearly renewal of my 601 HD insurance is now due and was stunned >> to see my insurance premium jump over 30% this year. >> >> When I asked my agent from SkySmith (underwriter is AIG) why my rate >> climbed so much for this year I was shocked to hear their answer. >> I've just converted over to flying as a Sport Pilot with my HD and >> they tell me THAT is the reason my rates skyrocketed (see they >> explanation below). >> >> " I have been unable to receive a quote from any other companies as >> they will not provide coverage to pilots >> flying in the Sport Category." >> >> Apparently no one wants to insure Sport Pilots, and those that will >> see a huge profit to be made with this new classification. >> Has anyone else found this to be the case, and if so has anyone found >> a reasonable Sport Pilot friendly company to insure with? >> >> Kelly Meiste >> 601 HD >> * >> * > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:52 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor Dave, If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. Jay in Dallas Do not archive David Downey wrote: >I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. > > >I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very good. >Dave Nixon > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > >--------------------------------- >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:19 AM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Response time Zen Guys: Larry said: "Whenever I send any email to Zenith, it usually takes them at least a week to answer it. If you want better service, I suggest you pick up the phone and give them a call. You'll have your answer much quicker that way." My experience is the opposite. Three times recently I have sent Emails to Zenair and have gotten answers within 12 hours on each occasion. Of course, I could be asking easier questions. Stan N701VG ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:18 AM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions Another question::: I have a Jabiru 3300A with one mechanical fuel pump. Then I have an electric "boost" pump on the firewall... This is how it came from Zenith. My Cherokee has the same set up. One boost and one mechanical.... I see that some XLs have a pump at each wing.... Please set me straight. Whats the correct way to do the installation..... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Phillips" Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions > > Doug > > Are the 1/4" fittings on the pump and carb 1/4" NPT or are they 1/4" AN > tubing fittings? > > If they are NPT fittings (like on the Facet 40105 pumps), you should be > aware that the i.d. of even 1/8" schedule 40 pipe is 0.269-inch while the > i.d. of 1/4" schedule 40 pipe is 0.364". > > The i.d. of 3/8" aluminum tubing with 0.035 walls is 0.305-inch, which is > smaller than 1/4" schedule 40 pipe, and not all that much larger than 1/8" > schedule 40 pipe. The i.d. of 1/4" tubing with .035 walls is only 0.18". > The flow area for the 3/8" tubing is 2.87 time greater than the 1/4" > tubing. So average flow velocities are ~3x greater in the 1/4" tubing than > in the 3/8" tubing. IIRC, pressure drop increases roughly as the square of > velocity, so pressure drop in 1/4" tubing would be ~8x the pressure drop > in the 3/8" tubing. > > Terry > > > At 06:00 AM 3/8/2008 -0800, you wrote: >>Because I'm in Canada and that is what is mandated. >> >From what I understand, the MD-RA (similar to DAR) >>doesn't like any 1/4 inch in the fuel system at all. >>Problem is, the Rotax has 1/4 inch fittings on the >>pump and carbs. >> >>Doug MacDonald >>Do not archive > > > Terry Phillips > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons > are done; working on the wings > http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:35 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot I changed to sport pilot last year. My AIG liability/hull insurance went up less than 5%. I had insured with AIG for 3 years as a private pilot. 300 hours total tail dragger time the first time I insured. The first one hundred hours were 50 years ago. - I'm now 73 and happy. Leo Gates N601Z - CH601hds TDO Rotax 912UL Kelly Meiste wrote: > The yearly renewal of my 601 HD insurance is now due and was stunned > to see my insurance premium jump over 30% this year. > > When I asked my agent from SkySmith (underwriter is AIG) why my rate > climbed so much for this year I was shocked to hear their answer. > I've just converted over to flying as a Sport Pilot with my HD and > they tell me THAT is the reason my rates skyrocketed (see they > explanation below). > > " I have been unable to receive a quote from any other companies as > they will not provide coverage to pilots > flying in the Sport Category." > > Apparently no one wants to insure Sport Pilots, and those that will > see a huge profit to be made with this new classification. > Has anyone else found this to be the case, and if so has anyone found > a reasonable Sport Pilot friendly company to insure with? > > Kelly Meiste > 601 HD > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:43 AM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Im without insurance til I get my XL flying. I have had "other" homebuilts insured and my broker is Chapparal out of Bermuda Dunes, California. What was always said to me was, I needed to have the approiate medical for the rating I was using. I asked about Sport Pilot and was told, " If its not required then a medical isnt needed". Just like the Gliders that I ve owned over the years. No medical required.... Of course insurance companies are like lawyers. Hate them til you need them..... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:22 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot > > Hi Kelly, > The Sport Pilot allows that a person can drop the medical as an annoyance > or conceal medical problems from the insurer. > That's probably the short answer and that they don't want to assume more > risk without compensation. It's also a great way > for them to increase their profitability knowing the actual risks > involved. > I'm really not surprised and will continue to get the medical so long as > I'm able. > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > Kelly Meiste wrote: >> The yearly renewal of my 601 HD insurance is now due and was stunned to >> see my insurance premium jump over 30% this year. >> When I asked my agent from SkySmith (underwriter is AIG) why my rate >> climbed so much for this year I was shocked to hear their answer. I've >> just converted over to flying as a Sport Pilot with my HD and they tell >> me THAT is the reason my rates skyrocketed (see they explanation below). >> " I have been unable to receive a quote from any other companies as they >> will not provide coverage to pilots >> flying in the Sport Category." >> Apparently no one wants to insure Sport Pilots, and those that will see >> a huge profit to be made with this new classification. Has anyone else >> found this to be the case, and if so has anyone found a reasonable Sport >> Pilot friendly company to insure with? >> Kelly Meiste >> 601 HD >> * >> * > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Distibutor Cap and Rotor Information From: "Tim Juhl" I'd post the question to the Jabiru Engines list. The numbers refer to Bosch Australia parts (I believe) and I found some cross references but would hestitate to use them without knowing for sure they were correct. Pete Krotje at JabiruUSA could also tell you. Tim Do not archive -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168434#168434 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot From: "Roger Lee" Hi Guys, I have Avemco for my Flight Design CT. I have liability and hull. I have several thousand hours, but my partner only has about 200 hrs. Our premium is based on the pilot with the lowest hours. For full coverage of $112K ours is $1900 a year, paid quarterly. Avemco writes its own policies where the other companies are underwriters. I believe EAA (I'm a member) goes out to as many as 13 other companies for an underwriter. Avemco told me this year that rates were going up at least 10-25% across the board with a lot of companies when you renewed because of too many claims in the Sport Pilot category and the high pay outs. I guess they aren't making enough profit at our expense. [Rolling Eyes] Avemco does give 5% off for flight reviews each year and another 5% off for viewing a King Aviation Video. This is just an observation: We as a group are flying more or less high dollar planes ($60K-$130K). The new LSA pilots whether new or PP transitions should get some good instruction as they do land and fly a little different than the heavier GA planes. I would recommend an LSA CFI over some, not all, (no offense to some GA CFI's, some are good) GA CFI's because the LSA CFI's are more familiar with light aircraft and the differences between the GA and LSA flying characteristics. I might be wrong, but it seems a lot of crashes have come from the PP transition pilot with no LSA instruction or GA CFI over a brand new pilot and of course just about all of these were attributed to pilot error. If we as a group , LSA or Experimental want to keep our insurance rates down then we have to do a better job as a group in keeping our planes in one piece. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168435#168435 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:42 AM PST US From: Dan Subject: Zenith-List: Insurance All: If you are a member of the US Ultralight Association (USUA), you can get insurance from 1st Flight Insurance Group out of Kitty Hawk, NC. I am paying $440 per year for _Liability only_ for my 701. The insurance is only good as long as you are a member of the USUA. Check the USUA website for details. Dan Wilde ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:40 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor ...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of flight. Dave, If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. Jay in Dallas Do not archive David Downey wrote: >I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. > > >I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very good. >Dave Nixon > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > >--------------------------------- >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:12 AM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions SW, There are a multitude of postings in the archive about fuel systems and fuel pumps. In particular, see postings by "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I don't believe Frank is still on the list, but he had standing in fluid systems design. In general, the recommendation was to locate the Facet pumps as close to the fuel tank(s) as possible. This avoids "sucking" on the fuel which possibly could cause vapor lock. See Frank's posts for a more eloquent explanation. Jeff Davidson Another question::: I have a Jabiru 3300A with one mechanical fuel pump. Then I have an electric "boost" pump on the firewall... This is how it came from Zenith. My Cherokee has the same set up. One boost and one mechanical.... I see that some XLs have a pump at each wing.... Please set me straight. Whats the correct way to do the installation..... SW ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:55 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor Well in my instrument (MGL Enigma) the OAT drives the density altitude display - something I want to know *before* I try to take off. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Downey Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:47 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor ...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of flight. Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: Dave, If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. Jay in Dallas Do not archive David Downey wrote: >I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:19 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 locker tanks HD/HDS people- Just opened my locker tank "Kit" and realised the fuel pump and selector switch (Minor omissions) weren't included. Is this to be expected or am I missing a package? If the former, what fuel pump and selector switch should I order? Needless to say, I can't sit down without a cushion at this point. Thanks. do not archive Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:31 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor Dave, I don't understand why flying would influence a temperature probe. Probes are not sensitive to "wind chill" or "heat index". They ARE influenced by direct sunlight, which is why temps are always taken in the shade (if they are to be accurate). Jay in Dallas David Downey wrote: >...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of flight. > > >Dave, > >If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. > >Jay in Dallas >Do not archive > > >David Downey > wrote: > >>I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. >> >> >>I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very good. >>Dave Nixon >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dave Downey >> Harleysville (SE) PA >> 100 HP Corvair >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >> > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > >--------------------------------- >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:27 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: I have to share. It's alway a great occasion when a new pilot (to be) get his wings ! Congratulations and welcome to the club ! Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada do not archive On 07/03/2008, Lee Steensland wrote: > > zenith-list@steensland.net> > > Today was a big day for me. After almost a year (39 hours) of flight > training, and waiting 8 months for my 3rd class medical, I got to solo > today. > > http://www.steensland.net/images/post-solo.jpg > > On a side note, I ordered up my tail from zenith this week as well. So > I'm officially official! > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:27 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor Out of curiosity, I just took my electronic temp probe out into the sunlight. In the shade it read 45.3 degF; in the sun, 73.9 degF after about 4 minutes. Jay in Dallas do not archive David Downey wrote: >...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of flight. > > >Dave, > >If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. > >Jay in Dallas >Do not archive > > >David Downey > wrote: > >>I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. >> >> >>I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very good. >>Dave Nixon >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dave Downey >> Harleysville (SE) PA >> 100 HP Corvair >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >> > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > >--------------------------------- >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:04 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions Steve I believe that there are multiple correct ways, just different. I'm planning to burn mogas as much as possible. Mogas reportedly has a higher vapor pressure than avgas, and therefore the system can vapor lock at a lower temperature. If you read the instructions for the Facet 40105 pump, they say to mount it as close to the tank as possible. The electric fuel pumps that I've replaced on various automobiles have all been mounted just outside of the tank. Most modern cars have the electric pump inside the tank. For my comfort, I decided to mount a fuel pump in each wing, between nose ribs 2 and 3. The 601XL standard design has a single pump on the firewall, with the gascolator poking through the cockpit floor just forward of the main spar. So, I'm adding a second fuel pump (1.2 lbs) and a second gascolator (0.6 lbs with fuel) and I'm using aluminum fuel tubing behind the firewall. Aluminum fuel tubing is used on most certified airplanes. It seems better to me. The upside of wing fuel pumps is that vapor lock probability should be reduced. The downside is that fuel flows through the cockpit at higher pressure, so any leak there would be a more serious problem. So, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Terry At 10:08 AM 3/8/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Another question::: > >I have a Jabiru 3300A with one mechanical fuel pump. Then I have an >electric "boost" pump on the firewall... >This is how it came from Zenith. My Cherokee has the same set up. One >boost and one mechanical.... >I see that some XLs have a pump at each wing.... >Please set me straight. Whats the correct way to do the installation..... > >SW Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:37 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions It also depends on what type of fuel you intend to use. Avgas is a more uniform mixture than auto gas, it doesn't have the low boiling point components that auto gas has so it's more resistant to vapor lock than auto gas. With auto gas, you want to make sure that the inlets to your pumps are gravity fed at all times (at least for the boost pump) You want the pressure in the fuel line to be above ambient pressure, the boiling point of gasoline decreases with a decrease in pressure. You don't want to draw a suction on a fuel line filled with auto gas, on a hot day, it could cause the fuel in the line to vaporize and fuel pumps won't pump vaporized fuel. That's also why you don't want to use any supply lines less than 1/4" ID. A liquid flowing through a tube will experience a pressure drop across the length of the tube, the smaller the tube, the faster the flow and the worse the pressure drop. Putting the electric pumps in the wings at the outlet from the tanks pretty much guarantees you won't vapor lock the pumps, but it may be a bit of overkill. I put my fuel pumps on the cabin floor in the rudder cable tunnel just ahead of the gascolator near the lowest point of the system. In that location, they should be gravity fed in nearly any flight attitude or fuel state. The only possible way I can see vapor lock developing in my system is during a steep climb out at full throttle on a very hot day with a very low fuel level in the tank. That is a situation I don't intend to get myself into. > > > > Another question::: > > I have a Jabiru 3300A with one mechanical fuel pump. Then I have an > electric "boost" pump on the firewall... > This is how it came from Zenith. My Cherokee has the same set up. > One boost and one mechanical.... > I see that some XLs have a pump at each wing.... > Please set me straight. Whats the correct way to do the > installation..... > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:11 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 locker tanks Bill, I received one fuel pump and no selector switches. I don't know about the switches, but I'm going to have to work fast to move the pump back and forth while in flight. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, Tail done, wings done, c-section - ALL FOR SALE _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:06 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 locker tanks HD/HDS people- Just opened my locker tank "Kit" and realised the fuel pump and selector switch (Minor omissions) weren't included. Is this to be expected or am I missing a package? If the former, what fuel pump and selector switch should I order? Needless to say, I can't sit down without a cushion at this point. Thanks. do not archive Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:19 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor very good point. Craig Payne wrote: Well in my instrument (MGL Enigma) the OAT drives the density altitude display something I want to know *before* I try to take off. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Downey Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:47 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor ...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of flight. Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: Dave, If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. Jay in Dallas Do not archive David Downey wrote: >I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:37 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions The Rotax/Piersburg fuel pump has essentially a 1/4" metal tube with a bulge crimped into the end of it for a rubber fuel line to go over and be held on with a hose clamp. The fittings are welded/crimped to the case of the pump and not changable. So I suppose the answer to your question would be, neither 1/4 NPT or 1/4 AN. Fortunately, on the 701, we have gravity working for us. If this were a 601, I would definately be installing dual Facets mentioned in another post. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scatch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do not Archive --- Terry Phillips wrote: > > > Doug > > Are the 1/4" fittings on the pump and carb 1/4" NPT > or are they 1/4" AN > tubing fittings? > > If they are NPT fittings (like on the Facet 40105 > pumps), you should be > aware that the i.d. of even 1/8" schedule 40 pipe is > 0.269-inch while the > i.d. of 1/4" schedule 40 pipe is 0.364". > > The i.d. of 3/8" aluminum tubing with 0.035 walls is > 0.305-inch, which is > smaller than 1/4" schedule 40 pipe, and not all that > much larger than 1/8" > schedule 40 pipe. The i.d. of 1/4" tubing with .035 > walls is only 0.18". > The flow area for the 3/8" tubing is 2.87 time > greater than the 1/4" > tubing. So average flow velocities are ~3x greater > in the 1/4" tubing than > in the 3/8" tubing. IIRC, pressure drop increases > roughly as the square of > velocity, so pressure drop in 1/4" tubing would be > ~8x the pressure drop in > the 3/8" tubing. > > Terry Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:11 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 09:15:03AM -0800, Roger Lee wrote: > Avemco told me this year that rates were going up at least 10-25% across > the board with a lot of companies when you renewed because of too many > claims in the Sport Pilot category and the high pay outs. I guess they > aren't making enough profit at our expense. [Rolling Eyes] I haven't spoken to Avemco, but both Falcon and AOPA quoted me in the neighborhood of $3500 the first year for a 170 hour pilot with 10 hours dual in type. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order) ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:50 PM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Zenith-List: NASON Oil Presssure Switch Anybody have a source for the NASON oil pressure switch WW recommends in his manual? Can't seem to find it anywhere. Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:57 PM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Needley Engine Comment Dear Bill, I was one of those people that questioned WW and his ability to provide parts several months ago. What I didn't realize (but soon did) is HOW does William have the time to do everything he does?? He does the research to find a new vendors/suppliers for the parts that can be made on a CNC now. He still does new prototype work and research on new product development. He does repair work at the hanger I'm sure. He has to get everything ready for all the upcoming air events and takes the time to travel and promote. And then, where does he STILL have the time to eat, sleep and spend some QUALITY TIME with Grace Ellen? I know from my own personal and professional life, SOMETHING has to give. He's only one man (wife a great wife and crew behind him). Does he still pick up and answer your phone call if you need help??? Does he get on line (one of his most UN-FAVORITE things to do I'm sure) to answer peoples questions or set something (or someone) straight about certain things?? Sure he does. Does he TRY to keep you and everyone else updated to his new findings on his research and new developments on his products? Sure he does. How do you think he does all of this?? Where does he find the time?? He makes it. As this "movement" towards using the Corvair has literally EXPLODED on him and his small operation, William and Grace was forced into doing something different and view how their parts are/was being made. They have SOLD their 601 to put more sale-able inventory on the shelf so people like you and me don't have to WAIT as long. Did you realize that? If he is like most smaller manufacturing facilities, they don't just make ONE of anything at a time. It's NOT cost effective to set up a jig or build just one of anything so when he does take the time to get ahead on the hottest parts (usually the most past due to customers), he falls behind on other parts - its usually a very vicious cycle.....Am I close here William?? I've been a former Plant Materials/Production Manager for far too many years and I KNOW what he is up against. I am just DAMNED HAPPY that he is still WILLING to do whatever is necessary to provide the parts that we are demanding of him. One thing you can rest assure is, William DOES have his fingers into EVERY aspect of all the parts that are now and will be produced outside his facility. The quality of the workmanship you have seen and will see in the future should be a seamless transition. Please give him more time before laying judgment on him. He finally realizes there is more need than he can currently provide in a timely manner. William IS doing something about it. It takes time to find the right person for the job to outsource a job. There is usually a learning curve that goes along with it and only William can be the one to teach the new supplier what is expected of him/her. Bill I am asking you to please reserve your judgment of the way the Corvair Authority has operated in the past. A new vision I believe has emerged here and I can personally attest to it. I placed two orders with him in the last 2 weeks. I received a NOTICE that parts was being shipped on a certain day and they did. BOTH of my orders was received in the exact same week it was ordered in. As for me, I just hope and pray William doesn't get too damned mad about folks chastising or yelling at him about this or that. I hope the day never comes that he tells all of us to go "pound sand and shove it" . I probably would have a long, long time ago. To WIlliam and Grace Ellen: Thank you Grace Ellen and William for showing such kindness and caring about us. Its time WE start to understand what YOU go through each and every day.....I hope I've shed some new light on one of your oldest problems... Regards Larry Hursh CH 601XL ((N601LL Reserved) and "Newbie to Corvair Moement" (but more than willing to learn!) --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:51 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch All- Anyone have part numbers and source for wing tank fuel pump and selector switch? I would prefer HD/HDS part specifications, but suppose XL would work. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:41 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Bill, The part # for the ONE facet fuel pump that I received is 40105. I received no switches, probably because I only got one pump (no need to switch). If I needed to turn off the pump I could just yank out the wire.. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch All- Anyone have part numbers and source for wing tank fuel pump and selector switch? I would prefer HD/HDS part specifications, but suppose XL would work. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:27 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor My answer (worth exactly what I charged for it!) was based on the documented facts that our rotor blades cool rapidly as soon as they start turning. If they did not (and they have been instrumented to prove they do) the materials we engineered them from would fail structurally very soon after loading. My error was in making the assumption that the passing air would remove heat from the probe? Dave, I don't understand why flying would influence a temperature probe. Probes are not sensitive to "wind chill" or "heat index". They ARE influenced by direct sunlight, which is why temps are always taken in the shade (if they are to be accurate). Jay in Dallas David Downey wrote: >...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of flight. > > >Dave, > >If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. > >Jay in Dallas >Do not archive > > >David Downey > wrote: > >>I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. >> >> >>I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very good. >>Dave Nixon >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dave Downey >> Harleysville (SE) PA >> 100 HP Corvair >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >> > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > >--------------------------------- >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:28 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions Doug Now I see your problem more clearly. I have always planned on using ZAC's 1/4" i.d. rubber tubing (inside a fire sleeve) FWF. That would mate fine with your fuel pump. I doubt I can propose a better scheme than the one you suggested, but, perhaps, other alternatives. I don't see any way to go from 3/8" aluminum tubing to your 1/4" hose barb w/o using at least 3 AN fittings plus some 1/4" i.d. hose. Assuming you bring 3/8" aluminum through the firewall (eyeball fitting or bulkhead fitting), one alternative would be connect to an AN816-6-2D nipple to a AN910-1D coupling to a AN840-4D hose nipple and then run 1/4" i.d. rubber hose to the fuel pump. One other thing I failed to mention in an earlier post. Bengelis recommends 5052 aluminum tubing fo fuel lines rather than 3003, so that's what I ordered. One item still on my shopping list is a tube flaring tool for the 37 AN flare fittings. They are $90 at Wicks. Summit racing has a 37 tool for ~$32. Harbor Freight has a flaring tool for ~$12, angle unknown. Does anyone have experience with any of these? Or with a different satisfactory tool for a reasonable price? Thanks for any suggestions you can give me. Terry At 11:43 AM 3/8/2008 -0800, you wrote: >The Rotax/Piersburg fuel pump has essentially a 1/4" >metal tube with a bulge crimped into the end of it for >a rubber fuel line to go over and be held on with a >hose clamp. The fittings are welded/crimped to the >case of the pump and not changable. So I suppose the >answer to your question would be, neither 1/4 NPT or >1/4 AN. > >Fortunately, on the 701, we have gravity working for >us. If this were a 601, I would definately be >installing dual Facets mentioned in another post. > >Doug MacDonald >CH-701 Scatch Builder >NW Ontario, Canada Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:31 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Gary- At least you got one. I have an e-mail in to Zenith. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Bill, The part # for the ONE facet fuel pump that I received is 40105. I received no switches, probably because I only got one pump (no need to switch). If I needed to turn off the pump I could just yank out the wire.. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM To: zenith list Subject: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch All- Anyone have part numbers and source for wing tank fuel pump and selector switch? I would prefer HD/HDS part specifications, but suppose XL would work. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:19 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Austin Meyer, the originator of the X-Plane flight simulator recently published his thoughts on the economics of airplane hull insurance: http://x-plane.com/adventures/37%20Follow_Up.html Look about half-way down. Basically meyer says that self insurance makes more sense than commercial hull insurance for most people. Well worth reading. Terry At 01:55 PM 3/8/2008 -0600, you wrote: >On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 09:15:03AM -0800, Roger Lee wrote: > > Avemco told me this year that rates were going up at least 10-25% across > > the board with a lot of companies when you renewed because of too many > > claims in the Sport Pilot category and the high pay outs. I guess they > > aren't making enough profit at our expense. [Rolling Eyes] > >I haven't spoken to Avemco, but both Falcon and AOPA quoted me in the >neighborhood of $3500 the first year for a 170 hour pilot with 10 hours dual >in type. >-- >Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com >http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net >Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) >AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order) Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:22 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 03:22:02PM -0700, Terry Phillips wrote: > Austin Meyer, the originator of the X-Plane flight simulator recently > published his thoughts on the economics of airplane hull insurance: > > http://x-plane.com/adventures/37%20Follow_Up.html > > Look about half-way down. Basically meyer says that self insurance makes > more sense than commercial hull insurance for most people. Well worth > reading. He's right about the economics. Unfortunately, those of us who are financing our purchases must carry insurance to satisfy the finance companies... -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order) ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:39 PM PST US From: "Jerry Latimer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch I'm building an HDS with wing locker tanks. Like Gary, I received only one fuel pump (Facet 40105) with my kit and no selector valve. I purchase 2 additional 40105's and have installed them in the center wing section close to the fuel tank outlets. I then ran hoses into the fuselage and tee'd the tanks together. From there I ran a line to the header tank. I know most of you don't like header tanks, but this is my plan. I have two switches, one for each pump. My plan is to use the locker tanks to fill the header tank when needed. I turn on the right tank first and then the left tank to fill the header. This way I can help to balance tha plane right to left with fuel weight. The Facet's have a check valve on the out, so I should be able to run one and the check valve on the other one whould keep from only pumpling fuel from each locker tank. Jerry Chandler AZ 601 HDS 912 installing motor now _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:54 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Bill, The part # for the ONE facet fuel pump that I received is 40105. I received no switches, probably because I only got one pump (no need to switch). If I needed to turn off the pump I could just yank out the wire.. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch All- Anyone have part numbers and source for wing tank fuel pump and selector switch? I would prefer HD/HDS part specifications, but suppose XL would work. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:00 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch My (unfinished) HD is plumbed the same way. I have a gauge for each wing tank and indicator lights for each wing tank pump. George Swinford Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Latimer To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 4:50 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch I'm building an HDS with wing locker tanks. Like Gary, I received only one fuel pump (Facet 40105) with my kit and no selector valve. I purchase 2 additional 40105's and have installed them in the center wing section close to the fuel tank outlets. I then ran hoses into the fuselage and tee'd the tanks together. From there I ran a line to the header tank. I know most of you don't like header tanks, but this is my plan. I have two switches, one for each pump. My plan is to use the locker tanks to fill the header tank when needed. I turn on the right tank first and then the left tank to fill the header. This way I can help to balance tha plane right to left with fuel weight. The Facet's have a check valve on the out, so I should be able to run one and the check valve on the other one whould keep from only pumpling fuel from each locker tank. Jerry Chandler AZ 601 HDS 912 installing motor now ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:54 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Bill, The part # for the ONE facet fuel pump that I received is 40105. I received no switches, probably because I only got one pump (no need to switch). If I needed to turn off the pump I could just yank out the wire.. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM To: zenith list Subject: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch All- Anyone have part numbers and source for wing tank fuel pump and selector switch? I would prefer HD/HDS part specifications, but suppose XL would work. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 3/8/2008 10:14 AM ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: NASON Oil Presssure Switch From: "Ron Lendon" SM-2C-20F That is the part number from the WW Corvair Installation manual. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168509#168509 ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:05 PM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Certainly an interesting piece. I read it with some care, waiting for his discussion about liability; it never came. My presumption is that the best possible case is never seeing a penny of payout from an insurance company. That would mean you have not had an accident; more importantly, you have not had a judgment leveled against you. I cannot imagine flying "naked" where an accident in which I caused harm to another could wipe out everything my wife and I have built. Elden J xl/3300 Terry Phillips wrote: Austin Meyer, the originator of the X-Plane flight simulator recently published his thoughts on the economics of airplane hull insurance: http://x-plane.com/adventures/37%20Follow_Up.html Look about half-way down. Basically meyer says that self insurance makes more sense than commercial hull insurance for most people. Well worth reading. Terry At 01:55 PM 3/8/2008 -0600, you wrote: >On Sat, Mar 08, 2008 at 09:15:03AM -0800, Roger Lee wrote: > > Avemco told me this year that rates were going up at least 10-25% across > > the board with a lot of companies when you renewed because of too many > > claims in the Sport Pilot category and the high pay outs. I guess they > > aren't making enough profit at our expense. [Rolling Eyes] > >I haven't spoken to Avemco, but both Falcon and AOPA quoted me in the >neighborhood of $3500 the first year for a 170 hour pilot with 10 hours dual >in type. >-- >Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com >http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net >Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) >AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order) Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:52 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Pump+Switch From: "cookwithgas" Bill: I did mine a little different than most and it works very well. I use two pumps - one near each tank and two gauges with little green lights below them to indicate which pump is pumping. I use an on-on switch so one pump must be on all the time. I use a FAcet Purolator Posi-Flo pump which is an upgrade from what ZAC supplies I believe. Here's some info. http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/media/technology/hd_pdfs/Posi-Flo_sheet.pdf You can see my sideways switch and two gauges and little green lights just above the red BRS handle in this picture: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/6_5_06_Panel.JPG The pumps are pretty quiet when they are pumping fuel but when they run out, they get really loud. Scott Laughlin 60XL Finished and Flying I did an hour of flying today in really windy conditions Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168515#168515 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:00 PM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel System Questions I have the AS&S economy flaring tool for AN fitting (37 Deg). I have no idea how it will work out since I haven't tried and falring yet. It is likely the same on as Wicks is selling. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Bulder NW Ontario, Canada Do not archive > One item still on my shopping list is a tube flaring > tool for the 37 AN > flare fittings. They are $90 at Wicks. Summit racing > has a 37 tool for > ~$32. Harbor Freight has a flaring tool for ~$12, > angle unknown. Does > anyone have experience with any of these? Or with a > different satisfactory > tool for a reasonable price? Thanks for any > suggestions you can give me. > > Terry > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot From: "Ron Lendon" I believe he said he did not carry HULL insurance. He made no mention of going naked. Just if the plane needs to be repaired it's his risk not the insurance companies. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168535#168535 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:16 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Ouch! This is a part of the insurance problem that Meyer doesn't mention and I overlooked. My mortgage company, of course, requires homeowners insurance on my house. I'd probably carry it anyway. Just couldn't afford to take the chance that house would burn down. But in 35 years of home ownership, I don't think I've collected more than 3 or 4 thousand in claims. I see that I'm lucky that I am not financing the airplane. Terry do not archive At 04:44 PM 3/8/2008 -0600, you wrote: >He's right about the economics. Unfortunately, those of us who are financing >our purchases must carry insurance to satisfy the finance companies... >-- >Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com >http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:17 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Pump+Switch Hey Scott I liked your toggle switch guard on the pump switch. Nice touch. I was considering the same thing for my pump switch. Are those the ones that Perihelion Design sells? Do you think they are worthwhile? The pump switch seems like an appropriate place to use them. Terry do not archive At 06:10 PM 3/8/2008 -0800, you wrote: >Bill: > >I did mine a little different than most and it works very well. I use two >pumps - one near each tank and two gauges with little green lights below >them to indicate which pump is pumping. I use an on-on switch so one pump >must be on all the time. I use a FAcet Purolator Posi-Flo pump which is >an upgrade from what ZAC supplies I believe. Here's some info. > >http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/media/technology/hd_pdfs/Posi-Flo_sheet.pdf > >You can see my sideways switch and two gauges and little green lights just >above the red BRS handle in this picture: > >http://www.cooknwithgas.com/6_5_06_Panel.JPG > >The pumps are pretty quiet when they are pumping fuel but when they run >out, they get really loud. > >Scott Laughlin >60XL Finished and Flying >I did an hour of flying today in really windy conditions Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.