---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/09/08: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:50 AM - Re: Pump+Switch (Bill Naumuk) 2. 07:24 AM - Re: Pump+Switch (cookwithgas) 3. 08:28 AM - Re: Pump+Switch (Jerry Latimer) 4. 08:40 AM - Header Tank (James Sagerser) 5. 09:39 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot () 6. 10:41 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Paul Mulwitz) 7. 11:10 AM - Accident (Joe Scheibinger) 8. 11:44 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (ella) 9. 12:19 PM - Rudder kit on the way!!! (Andrew Lieser) 10. 12:39 PM - Fuel thread sealant (Maarten Versteeg) 11. 01:58 PM - Re: Accident (ashontz) 12. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Robin Bellach) 13. 03:51 PM - Re: Rudder kit on the way!!! (Larry H) 14. 03:51 PM - Re: Fuel thread sealant (Bryan Martin) 15. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Jaybannist@cs.com) 16. 04:10 PM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Larry H) 17. 04:10 PM - Re: Rudder kit on the way!!! (Ron Lendon) 18. 04:11 PM - Re: Zenith Response time (Paul Riedlinger) 19. 04:14 PM - Re: Fuel thread sealant (Ron Lendon) 20. 04:24 PM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot (Craig Payne) 21. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Robin Bellach) 22. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Ronald Steele) 23. 05:08 PM - Corvair core for sale (John Lifer Jr) 24. 05:19 PM - Re: Fuel thread sealant (Jeff) 25. 05:48 PM - Fish Eyes..... (steve) 26. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Accident (Kevin Bonds) 27. 07:15 PM - Re: Rudder kit on the way!!! (JohnDRead@aol.com) 28. 07:20 PM - Re: Fish Eyes..... (Ron Lendon) 29. 07:52 PM - Sun n Fun (george may) 30. 08:06 PM - Re: Fish Eyes..... (ROBERT SCEPPA) 31. 08:22 PM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Jeyoung65@AOL.COM) 32. 08:29 PM - Fuel thread sealant (THOMAS SMALL) 33. 08:31 PM - Re: Re: Fish Eyes..... (steve) 34. 08:33 PM - Re: Fish Eyes..... (LRM) 35. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: Fish Eyes..... (steve) 36. 09:42 PM - Fish Eyes (gary@telleenpiano.com) 37. 09:46 PM - Re: Zenith Response time (n801bh@netzero.com) 38. 09:52 PM - Re: Re: Fish Eyes..... (n801bh@netzero.com) 39. 10:07 PM - CH640 Performance Numbers (seattle) 40. 10:18 PM - Re: Re: Fish Eyes..... (JG) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:24 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Jerry- You lost me when you said you purchased 2 additional pumps. Does that mean that you're using 3 pumps? I too am using the small 8 gal header tank and that puzzles me. There's an outlet at the bottom but no inlet fittings, and a small tube at the top I assume is a vent. Did you have to mount your own inlet fittings? Also, there's a huge difference in available selector valves, the generic ACS for about $40 or the name brand for over $200. There's a disclaimer saying the generic valve isn't FAA approved, but I find it hard to believe ACS would sell anything unsafe. Which are you using? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Latimer To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:50 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch I'm building an HDS with wing locker tanks. Like Gary, I received only one fuel pump (Facet 40105) with my kit and no selector valve. I purchase 2 additional 40105's and have installed them in the center wing section close to the fuel tank outlets. I then ran hoses into the fuselage and tee'd the tanks together. From there I ran a line to the header tank. I know most of you don't like header tanks, but this is my plan. I have two switches, one for each pump. My plan is to use the locker tanks to fill the header tank when needed. I turn on the right tank first and then the left tank to fill the header. This way I can help to balance tha plane right to left with fuel weight. The Facet's have a check valve on the out, so I should be able to run one and the check valve on the other one whould keep from only pumpling fuel from each locker tank. Jerry Chandler AZ 601 HDS 912 installing motor now ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:54 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Bill, The part # for the ONE facet fuel pump that I received is 40105. I received no switches, probably because I only got one pump (no need to switch). If I needed to turn off the pump I could just yank out the wire.. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM To: zenith list Subject: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch All- Anyone have part numbers and source for wing tank fuel pump and selector switch? I would prefer HD/HDS part specifications, but suppose XL would work. Thanks. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Pump+Switch From: "cookwithgas" Terry: Yes, they are the space shuttle switch guards from Periheliondesign.com and are really nice. Light weight and well made. Scott Laughlin 601XL Finished & Flying www.cooknwithgas.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168568#168568 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:56 AM PST US From: "Jerry Latimer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Sorry about the confusion. I am using 3 pumps. One pump that goes from the header tank to the engine. And two pumps in the center wing section. These 2 pumps will be used as transfer pumps. They will be used to transfer fuel from the locker to the header tank. I also have an 8 gallon header tank. My header tank has 2 welded fittings at the top, and two on the bottom. I will use one of the top fittings as an inlet for the transferred fuel. The other one is suppose to be used for the old style Zenith fuel sight glass fuel gauge. The center bottom fitting will go through a shutoff valve, then gasolator, then electric fuel pump, and then to the Rotax mechanical fuel pump. The second bottom fitting is suppose to be used as the second fitting required to make the sight glass fuel gauge. In other words you hook some transparent tubing between one of the top fittings and the bottom side fitting and this becomes the fuel gauge. Hope this helps Jerry _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 6:47 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pump+Switch Jerry- You lost me when you said you purchased 2 additional pumps. Does that mean that you're using 3 pumps? I too am using the small 8 gal header tank and that puzzles me. There's an outlet at the bottom but no inlet fittings, and a small tube at the top I assume is a vent. Did you have to mount your own inlet fittings? Also, there's a huge difference in available selector valves, the generic ACS for about $40 or the name brand for over $200. There's a disclaimer saying the generic valve isn't FAA approved, but I find it hard to believe ACS would sell anything unsafe. Which are you using? Bill ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Header Tank From: James Sagerser Does anyone have a small header tank they aren't using and willing to sell. Please contact me off line. Thank you Jim ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:24 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot AMEN! Read and understand, Grasshopper. Airspeed is your friend. =0A Altitud e is your friend. =0A The FAA isn't.=0A=0AAfter a legitimate problem (Angioplasty and stent in Dec 2001), I recovered nicely and the FAA s tarted giving me special issuances. OK, no problem proving I was fit t o fly. Until the fourth, when they arbitrarily denied it. No negative change in condition, just a quick "no". I submitted an appeal containi ng 14 attachments, beating them over the head with their own records. Used their own words, which, on a special issuance refer to not violat ing the rules, and not having significant adverse changes, and satisfy ing them that public sfaety is not endangered, blah, blah. After a whi le they sent me my LAST special issuance. No explanation of why the de nial, just the routine paperwork. One of our local EAA members lost h is physical without even a reason. He fought that one, and won. Again, no explanation. So some of us old heads have merely learned what you may learn in the future.=0A Yes, you can have a heart attack, lo se one eye, both ears, and half your innards, and, if you've never bus ted a physical, or even taken one, become a Sport Pilot. Them's the ru les. But I'd give odds that the accident surge is coming from low time SP's in SLA's, and all they need to do is get more time and experienc e, and they can fit right in with the rest of GA as far as an accident rate goes. It's like the thing about old pilots and bold pilots. Whe n I was in USAF pilot school (washed out eventually) a couple of gener ations ago, my instuctor converted me to his religion-----Devout Cowar dice. Orthodox branch. It seems to have worked.=0A=0APaul Rodrig uez=0ACAC (Certified Aerial Coward)=0A ----- Original Mes sage ----- =0A From: Jaybannist@cs.com =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0A Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:23 AM=0A Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot=0A=0A nnist@cs.com>=0A=0A Larry,=0A=0A The problem a lot of us older guys have is that we have stuff in the distant past that the FA A medical "Head Water Moccasin" can use to deny a medical, despite hav ing passed an exam. I know that because it happened to me. He doesn't have to have a reason. That is his prerogative. In my case he didn't actually deny my medical. He just said that, in his opinion, I was n ot fit to fly; but just to show what a great guy I am, I'm going to gr ant you a "special issuance", good for six years. That still required a medical exam every two years, two of which I passed. When it came time for the third exam, I decided not to chance being denied a medica l for no reason. So it is not always to "avoid an annoyance or to conc eal a medical problem". =0A=0A Jay in Dallas=0A=0A Lar ryMcFarland > wrot rry@macsmachine.com>=0A >=0A >Hi Kelly,=0A >The Sport Pilot allows that a person can drop the medi cal as an =0A >annoyance or conceal medical problems from the insu rer.=0A >That's probably the short answer and that they don't want to assume more =0A >risk without compensation. It's also a great way=0A >for them to increase their profitability knowing the actu al risks involved.=0A >I'm really not surprised and will continue to get the medical so long as =0A >I'm able.=0A >=0A >Larr y McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com =0A >=0A >=0A >Kelly Meiste wrote:=0A >> The yearly re newal of my 601 HD insurance is now due and was stunned =0A >> to see my insurance premium jump over 30% this year.=0A >> =0A > > When I asked my agent from SkySmith (underwriter is AIG) why my rate =0A >> climbed so much for this year I was shocked to hear their answer. =0A >> I've just converted over to flying as a Sport Pilo t with my HD and =0A >> they tell me THAT is the reason my rates s kyrocketed (see they =0A >> explanation below).=0A >> =0A >> " I have been unable to receive a quote from any other companies a s =0A >> they will not provide coverage to pilots=0A >> flying in the Sport Category."=0A >> =0A >> Apparently no one wants to insure Sport Pilots, and those that will =0A >> see a huge pro fit to be made with this new classification. =0A >> Has anyone els e found this to be the case, and if so has anyone found =0A >> a r easonable Sport Pilot friendly company to insure with?=0A >> =0A >> Kelly Meiste=0A >> 601 HD=0A >> *=0A >> *=0A > ======================= ======================= = --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Hi Paul, I think (and hope) you are mistaken about Sport Pilots having high accident rates because of low experience. Remember, we all had that same level of experience at one point and most of us managed to be careful enough to gain more experience. I agree with your statement about cowardice. I always used to refer to the "4 inch wide yellow streak down the middle of my back" for my continued existence while flying small planes. I hope the accident statistics for Sport Pilots is good enough to get the FAA to drop the 3rd class medical altogether. I believe this is possible if: Sport Pilots don't have a great accident rate; any accidents they do have can be explained by poor pilot skills rather than poor health; and (shoot me if you must} Republicans take over Congress again. This combination may never happen in my lifetime, but I think it is inevitable eventually. After all, there has never been any proof that medical exams help aviation safety one iota. Indeed, we still have airline captains dropping dead in the cockpit with their platinum plated first class medical certificate in their pocket. We all need to exercise a reasonable amount of cowardice about our condition for flying and many other things. The whole medical certificate program is based on the assumption that a bureaucracy can make better decisions about aviation safety than trained pilots can. This is a notion that only Democrats could agree with (oops, there I go again getting political). Even I wouldn't push for elimination of medical certificates for commercial pilots, but I believe the risks taken by any voluntary passenger in a plane piloted by a Private Pilot or Sport Pilot far outweigh the risks of flying with a pilot with an expired medical certificate. After all, the NTSB nearly always blames accidents on pilot error, and I have never read a report blaming the pilot's medical history. Paul XL fuselage definitely do not archive >. But I'd give odds that the accident surge is coming from low time >SP's in SLA's, and all they need to do is get more time and >experience, and they can fit right in with the rest of GA as far as >an accident rate goes. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:52 AM PST US From: "Joe Scheibinger" Subject: Zenith-List: Accident Looks like we may have a 601XL accident in Austrailia. Here is the link. I received it from a friend of mine that lives there who knew th pilot. I requested more information from him and as soon as I get it I will forward it to the group. The news media is calling it a wing failure and names the pilot and passenger in the video story. Over 20 wittnesses saw it go down and they refered to it as a stunt plane in one story, an ultralight in another. My friend confirms to me that it was a 601 XL. Looks like it happened near a popular beach, with debris on both land and water. My condolenses to family and friends. If I get anything else I will let you know. http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/03/07/8571_gold-coast-top-story.html Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:27 AM PST US From: "ella" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot I agree 100% I sold my Cessna 172 and purchased A Champ 7AC so I would be in Sport Pilot Cat. It appears to me the FAA is not interested in safety only the beaurocracy because I will be more likley to wreck the Champ than the 172 Just my .02 worth Don [just starting a 601xl]----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot > > Hi Paul, > > I think (and hope) you are mistaken about Sport Pilots having high > accident rates because of low experience. Remember, we all had that same > level of experience at one point and most of us managed to be careful > enough to gain more experience. > > I agree with your statement about cowardice. I always used to refer to > the "4 inch wide yellow streak down the middle of my back" for my > continued existence while flying small planes. > > I hope the accident statistics for Sport Pilots is good enough to get the > FAA to drop the 3rd class medical altogether. I believe this is possible > if: Sport Pilots don't have a great accident rate; any accidents they do > have can be explained by poor pilot skills rather than poor health; and > (shoot me if you must} Republicans take over Congress again. This > combination may never happen in my lifetime, but I think it is inevitable > eventually. After all, there has never been any proof that medical exams > help aviation safety one iota. Indeed, we still have airline captains > dropping dead in the cockpit with their platinum plated first class > medical certificate in their pocket. > > We all need to exercise a reasonable amount of cowardice about our > condition for flying and many other things. The whole medical certificate > program is based on the assumption that a bureaucracy can make better > decisions about aviation safety than trained pilots can. This is a notion > that only Democrats could agree with (oops, there I go again getting > political). Even I wouldn't push for elimination of medical certificates > for commercial pilots, but I believe the risks taken by any voluntary > passenger in a plane piloted by a Private Pilot or Sport Pilot far > outweigh the risks of flying with a pilot with an expired medical > certificate. After all, the NTSB nearly always blames accidents on pilot > error, and I have never read a report blaming the pilot's medical history. > > Paul > XL fuselage > definitely do not archive > > >>. But I'd give odds that the accident surge is coming from low time SP's >>in SLA's, and all they need to do is get more time and experience, and >>they can fit right in with the rest of GA as far as an accident rate goes. > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:58 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder kit on the way!!! From: Andrew Lieser Hello everyone! I have been lurking on this list for a while and finally pulled the trigger. I ordered my Zodiac xl rudder kit early last week and am preparing my workshop for its arrival. This forum seems to be teeming with very helpful builders and information and I look forward to being an active member once my kit gets here. I've posted the link to my website for building this aircraft if anyone is interested http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser/ I was also wondering if there are any XL builders in the chicagoland area? I live in the west suburbs and was just curios. Talk to you all soon, Andrew Lieser ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:09 PM PST US From: Maarten Versteeg Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel thread sealant Hallo All, I am reaching the point where I need to install the fuel tank and accessories. What did you all use as thread sealant for the pipe thread of the drain, finger screen and nipple coupler? I looked in the mailing list archives and saw a discussion around 2005, that mentioned that use of sealube or permatex was suggested in the Zenith manual but I can't find anything. I got another advice to use DOW 730 sealant from ACS or Wicks but this is a pricey sealant at $94. Any suggestions here? Maarten, San Antonio 601xl plans building wings. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident From: "ashontz" Thanks. Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. backstagelive(at)gmail.co wrote: > Looks like we may have a 601XL accident in Austrailia. Here is the link. I > received it from a friend of mine that lives there who knew th pilot. I > requested more information from him and as soon as I get it I will forward > it to the group. The news media is calling it a wing failure and names the > pilot and passenger in the video story. Over 20 wittnesses saw it go down > and they refered to it as a stunt plane in one story, an ultralight in > another. My friend confirms to me that it was a 601 XL. Looks like it > happened near a popular beach, with debris on both land and water. My > condolenses to family and friends. If I get anything else I will let you > know. > > http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/03/07/8571_gold-coast-top-story.html > > Joe in Oshkosh -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168625#168625 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:54 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor What does it read in the sun in a 100mph airstream? ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor > > Out of curiosity, I just took my electronic temp probe out into the > sunlight. In the shade it read 45.3 degF; in the sun, 73.9 degF after > about 4 minutes. > > Jay in Dallas > do not archive > > > David Downey wrote: > >>...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it >>would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more >>than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of >>flight. >> >>Jaybannist@cs.com >> >>Dave, >> >>If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not >>exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. >> >>Jay in Dallas >>Do not archive >> >> >>David Downey >> wrote: >> >>>I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. >>>In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many >>>aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. >>> >>> >>>I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the >>>co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out >>>the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very >>>good. >>>Dave Nixon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Read this topic online here: >>> >>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave Downey >>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>> 100 HP Corvair >>> >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try >>>it now. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dave Downey >> Harleysville (SE) PA >> 100 HP Corvair >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >> > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:12 PM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder kit on the way!!! Hi Andrew, Congratulations on taking the plunge! You will have a lot of fun starting your very own airplane that YOU BUILT! I started my Zodiac XL about 4 months ago. My problem hasn't been the building time, its been the WAITING TIME for my shipments to arrive. If you are serious about getting a good start with this and not have to wait between kits, I would suggest you order the tail section as soon as you can. It will take at least 5 or 6 weeks for that to arrive (if not longer now - we are in the building season remember). Just to give you some idea, I ordered my wing kits and accessories on 12-4. Zenith is giving me a targeted ship date of the 1st or 2nd week in May. I asked what the lead time was for the fuselage kit. Shirley told me it was running about 14-16 weeks out now. When my wing kit arrives, I will immediately place the order for the fuselage and remainder of the airplane. I want to be able to fly this plane sometime before I die of old age!! LOL. Just a heads up so you won't have to wait too. Hope this helps everyone else out considering ordering any kits. Regards and happy building Andrew! Larry Hursh CH601XL (N601LL Reserved) Rudder kit done, Horizontal Stab Done, building Elevator now Working on Corvair Conversion also. Andrew Lieser wrote: Hello everyone! I have been lurking on this list for a while and finally pulled the trigger. I ordered my Zodiac xl rudder kit early last week and am preparing my workshop for its arrival. This forum seems to be teeming with very helpful builders and information and I look forward to being an active member once my kit gets here. I've posted the link to my website for building this aircraft if anyone is interested http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser/ I was also wondering if there are any XL builders in the chicagoland area? I live in the west suburbs and was just curios. Talk to you all soon, Andrew Lieser --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:12 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel thread sealant Use anything that will tolerate gasoline and stay pliable enough to allow the fittings to be removed later. Teflon tape isn't recommended because when you remove and reinstall fittings, you end up with slivers of teflon in the treads that are very difficult to remove and may clog up things downstream. You may be able to find a suitable sealant at your local auto parts store. Aircraft Spruce also sells Bakerseal at $6.30 for 8 ounces, this is inexpensive and should work as well as anything. These are tapered pipe fittings, they shouldn't need much in the way of sealant, one main purpose of the sealant is to prevent the threads from seizing up over time. On Mar 9, 2008, at 3:35 PM, Maarten Versteeg wrote: > > > > Hallo All, > > I am reaching the point where I need to install the fuel tank > and accessories. What did you all use as thread sealant for > the pipe thread of the drain, finger screen and nipple > coupler? > I looked in the mailing list archives and saw a discussion > around 2005, that mentioned that use of sealube or permatex > was suggested in the Zenith manual but I can't find anything. > I got another advice to use DOW 730 sealant from ACS or Wicks > but this is a pricey sealant at $94. Any suggestions here? > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:45 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor I can't answer that 'cause I don't have a 100 mph airstream in my back yard. An aircraft's temperature probe, sitting on the ramp, is not in a 100 mph airstream, either. Wouldn't you like an accurate temperature reading on the ground BEFORE charging off into a high density situation? Jay in Dallas Do not archive "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> wrote: > >What does it read in the sun in a 100mph airstream? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:36 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor > > >> >> Out of curiosity, I just took my electronic temp probe out into the >> sunlight. In the shade it read 45.3 degF; in the sun, 73.9 degF after >> about 4 minutes. >> >> Jay in Dallas >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> David Downey wrote: >> >>>...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it >>>would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more >>>than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of >>>flight. >>> >>>Jaybannist@cs.com >>> >>>Dave, >>> >>>If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was not >>>exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. >>> >>>Jay in Dallas >>>Do not archive >>> >>> >>>David Downey >>> wrote: >>> >>>>I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. >>>>In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on many >>>>aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. >>>> >>>> >>>>I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the >>>>co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it out >>>>the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very >>>>good. >>>>Dave Nixon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave Downey >>>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>>> 100 HP Corvair >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------------------- >>>>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try >>>>it now. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave Downey >>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>> 100 HP Corvair >>> >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:28 PM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot My CFI told me that he feels the newer Sport Pilot is LESS likely to have an accident because he/she is more aware of the inherit dangers involved with flying. He said they pay closer attention to detail and actually USE the checklists. He went on to say that it seems once a pilot gets over 100 hours or so, they become "comfortable" with flying and all that's involved and aren't paying as close attention as they used to. Its those pilots that get into trouble. He should know - he's also a Light Sport FAA Examiner and a Commercial Pilot. Larry H ella wrote: I agree 100% I sold my Cessna 172 and purchased A Champ 7AC so I would be in Sport Pilot Cat. It appears to me the FAA is not interested in safety only the beaurocracy because I will be more likley to wreck the Champ than the 172 Just my .02 worth Don [just starting a 601xl]----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot > > Hi Paul, > > I think (and hope) you are mistaken about Sport Pilots having high > accident rates because of low experience. Remember, we all had that same > level of experience at one point and most of us managed to be careful > enough to gain more experience. > > I agree with your statement about cowardice. I always used to refer to > the "4 inch wide yellow streak down the middle of my back" for my > continued existence while flying small planes. > > I hope the accident statistics for Sport Pilots is good enough to get the > FAA to drop the 3rd class medical altogether. I believe this is possible > if: Sport Pilots don't have a great accident rate; any accidents they do > have can be explained by poor pilot skills rather than poor health; and > (shoot me if you must} Republicans take over Congress again. This > combination may never happen in my lifetime, but I think it is inevitable > eventually. After all, there has never been any proof that medical exams > help aviation safety one iota. Indeed, we still have airline captains > dropping dead in the cockpit with their platinum plated first class > medical certificate in their pocket. > > We all need to exercise a reasonable amount of cowardice about our > condition for flying and many other things. The whole medical certificate > program is based on the assumption that a bureaucracy can make better > decisions about aviation safety than trained pilots can. This is a notion > that only Democrats could agree with (oops, there I go again getting > political). Even I wouldn't push for elimination of medical certificates > for commercial pilots, but I believe the risks taken by any voluntary > passenger in a plane piloted by a Private Pilot or Sport Pilot far > outweigh the risks of flying with a pilot with an expired medical > certificate. After all, the NTSB nearly always blames accidents on pilot > error, and I have never read a report blaming the pilot's medical history. > > Paul > XL fuselage > definitely do not archive > > >>. But I'd give odds that the accident surge is coming from low time SP's >>in SLA's, and all they need to do is get more time and experience, and >>they can fit right in with the rest of GA as far as an accident rate goes. > > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:45 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rudder kit on the way!!! From: "Ron Lendon" Or you could try scratch building, at least the waiting time is productive. It does take much longer though. Welcome to the group. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168651#168651 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:38 PM PST US From: "Paul Riedlinger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Response time Agreed. I have gotten all answers back in 12 hours or less. I have even gotten emailed replies on Saturday and Sunday I am sure I am very specific with my questions siting plan page number, parts involved, etc. I include photo's if needed. Most importantly I put my serial number in the message title. Works for me. On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Stanley Challgren wrote: > > Zen Guys: > > Larry said: "Whenever I send any email to Zenith, it usually takes > them at least a week to answer it. If you want better service, I > suggest you pick up the phone and give them a call. You'll have your > answer much quicker that way." > > My experience is the opposite. Three times recently I have sent > Emails to Zenair and have gotten answers within 12 hours on each > occasion. Of course, I could be asking easier questions. > > Stan > N701VG > > -- Paul Riedlinger cndmovn@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel thread sealant From: "Ron Lendon" A CFII recommended this to me and that's what I am using. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php Ez Turn Lubricant -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168653#168653 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:57 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot Let's not forget what a Sport Pilot is allowed to fly, when and where - slow planes with a low stall speed in good daylight weather with the ground visible. Since faster and trickier planes in more difficult conditions are available to other types of pilots it would be logical to expect that private pilots with the same number of hours are more likely to face greater challenges than a Sport Pilot. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry H Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 5:07 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot My CFI told me that he feels the newer Sport Pilot is LESS likely to have an accident because he/she is more aware of the inherit dangers involved with flying. He said they pay closer attention to detail and actually USE the checklists. He went on to say that it seems once a pilot gets over 100 hours or so, they become "comfortable" with flying and all that's involved and aren't paying as close attention as they used to. Its those pilots that get into trouble. He should know - he's also a Light Sport FAA Examiner and a Commercial Pilot. Larry H ella wrote: I agree 100% I sold my Cessna 172 and purchased A Champ 7AC so I would be in Sport Pilot Cat. It appears to me the FAA is not interested in safety only the beaurocracy because I will be more likley to wreck the Champ than the 172 Just my .02 worth Don [just starting a 601xl]----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport Pilot > > Hi Paul, > > I think (and hope) you are mistaken about Sport Pilots having high > accident rates because of low experience. Remember, we all had that same > level of experience at one point and most of us managed to be careful > enough to gain more experience. > > I agree with your statement about cowardice. I always used to refer to > the "4 inch wide yellow streak down the middle of my back" for my > continued existence while flying small planes. > > I hope the accident statistics for Sport Pilots is good enough to get the > FAA to drop the 3rd class medical altogether. I believe this is possible > if: Sport Pilots don't have a great accident rate; any accidents they do > have can be explained by poor pilot skills rather than poor health; and > (shoot me if you must} Republicans take over Congress again. This > combination may never happen in my lifetime, but I think it is inevitable > eventually. After all, there has never been any proof that medical exams > help aviation safety one iota. Indeed, we still have airline captains > dropping dead in the cockpit with their platinum plated first class > medical certificate in their pocket. > > We all need to exercise a reasonable amount of cowardice about our > condition for flying and many other things. The whole medical certificate > program is based on the assumption that a bureaucracy can make better > decisions about aviation safety than trained pilots can. This is a notion > that only Democrats could agree with (oops, there I go again getting > political). Even I wouldn't push for elimination of medical certificates > for commercial pilots, but I believe the risks taken by any voluntary > passenger in a plane piloted by a Private Pilot or Sport Pilot far > outweigh the risks of flying with a pilot with an expired medical > certificate. After all, the NTSB nearly always blames accidents on pilot > error, and I have never read a report blaming the pilot's medical history. > > Paul > XL fuselage > definitely do not archive > > >>. But I'd give odds that the accident surge is coming from low time SP's >>in SLA's, and all they need to do is get more time and experience, and >>they can fit right in with the _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:25 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor Most certainly, and I'm planning to avoid a sunny location. I was just curious about what effect the cooling airstream might have for in flight readings if someone did do a sunny mount, and thought someone knowledgeable might chime in. I would guess that the cooling airstream would for the most part offset the sun heating, but was wondering if, as is frequently the case, I'm guessing wrong. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor > > I can't answer that 'cause I don't have a 100 mph airstream in my back > yard. An aircraft's temperature probe, sitting on the ramp, is not in a > 100 mph airstream, either. Wouldn't you like an accurate temperature > reading on the ground BEFORE charging off into a high density situation? > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> wrote: > >> >>What does it read in the sun in a 100mph airstream? >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:36 PM >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor >> >> >>> >>> Out of curiosity, I just took my electronic temp probe out into the >>> sunlight. In the shade it read 45.3 degF; in the sun, 73.9 degF after >>> about 4 minutes. >>> >>> Jay in Dallas >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> David Downey wrote: >>> >>>>...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - and it >>>>would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun to have more >>>>than a very very small influence after the first several minutes of >>>>flight. >>>> >>>>Jaybannist@cs.com >>>> >>>>Dave, >>>> >>>>If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe was >>>>not >>>>exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not shielded. >>>> >>>>Jay in Dallas >>>>Do not archive >>>> >>>> >>>>David Downey >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in flight. >>>>>In the past the probes were direct reading dial thermometers and on >>>>>many >>>>>aircraft stuck right through the canopy bow. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the >>>>>co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This keeps it >>>>>out >>>>>the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust gas. It works very >>>>>good. >>>>>Dave Nixon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Read this topic online here: >>>>> >>>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave Downey >>>>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>>>> 100 HP Corvair >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>--------------------------------- >>>>>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try >>>>>it now. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave Downey >>>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>>> 100 HP Corvair >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------------------- >>>>Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:57 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor If you are sitting on hot pavement, seems to me the heat coming off the pavement going to affect reading too. You could have a little oven between the skin and the pavement. I'm not saying this is worse than the sun, just that like everything else about flying, it's a compromise. Ron On Mar 9, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Robin Bellach wrote: > <601zv@ritternet.com> > > What does it read in the sun in a 100mph airstream? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:36 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor > > >> >> Out of curiosity, I just took my electronic temp probe out into >> the sunlight. In the shade it read 45.3 degF; in the sun, 73.9 >> degF after about 4 minutes. >> >> Jay in Dallas >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> David Downey wrote: >> >>> ...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - >>> and it would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun >>> to have more than a very very small influence after the first >>> several minutes of flight. >>> >>> Jaybannist@cs.com >>> >>> Dave, >>> >>> If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe >>> was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not >>> shielded. >>> >>> Jay in Dallas >>> Do not archive >>> >>> >>> David Downey >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in >>>> flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial >>>> thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy >>>> bow. >>>> >>>> >>>> I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the >>>> co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This >>>> keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust >>>> gas. It works very good. >>>> Dave Nixon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave Downey >>>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>>> 100 HP Corvair >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! >>>> Mobile. Try it now. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave Downey >>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>> 100 HP Corvair >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:40 PM PST US From: "John Lifer Jr" Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair core for sale I've got a Corvair engine that I've decided to sell. Not going this route. It's disassembled and cleaned. Good bit of cutting done per book which I'll include. As it is in multiple pieces, I'd rather someone came by and picked up, but I'll ship if you want me to. Email for pictures. With work I've got in it, I'm asking $300. John in Clinton, MS. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:17 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel thread sealant I bought my Sealube from Aircraft Spruce. It was/is recommended and used by Zenith. Jeff Davidson Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maarten Versteeg Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel thread sealant Hallo All, I am reaching the point where I need to install the fuel tank and accessories. What did you all use as thread sealant for the pipe thread of the drain, finger screen and nipple coupler? I looked in the mailing list archives and saw a discussion around 2005, that mentioned that use of sealube or permatex was suggested in the Zenith manual but I can't find anything. I got another advice to use DOW 730 sealant from ACS or Wicks but this is a pricey sealant at $94. Any suggestions here? Maarten, San Antonio 601xl plans building wings. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:59 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Zenith-List: Fish Eyes..... I m still out here painting. What a project..... So far I m into a $966 paint job and learning about why paint shops get $ 6K plus to do it professionally. My major problem is "fish eyes" in my base coats. Yes, I cleaned the aluminum. Yes, I used Alima Prep. Yes, I used Alodine. Yes, I used Epoxy Primer. Yes, I bought the " How to paint your own airplane" book. One item I m just now hearing about is Fish Eye Eliminator.. Do you builders/painters have experience with FEE.. My plan is to head out the the auto paint store in the morning and buy this product. I m using Sherwin Williams Acry Glo aircraft paint. Its a poly urethane paint and I assume I can use the eliminator in this brand.. Help and thanks Steve 601XL ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:58 PM PST US From: Kevin Bonds Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Andy, Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to have gone-in 700 meters from shore. Kevin Bonds ashontz wrote: > > Thanks. > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:19 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder kit on the way!!! Hello Andrew: Welcome to this happy band of builders. Did you consider participating in Rudder Workshop at Zenith? It are well worth the time and you get to meet a great group of people. Chicago to Mexico is not to bad a drive either that is unless Mother Nature is having a snit! John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 In a message dated 3/9/2008 1:20:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, andrewlieser@gmail.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew Lieser Hello everyone! I have been lurking on this list for a while and finally pulled the trigger. I ordered my Zodiac xl rudder kit early last week and am preparing my workshop for its arrival. This forum seems to be teeming with very helpful builders and information and I look forward to being an active member once my kit gets here. I've posted the link to my website for building this aircraft if anyone is interested http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser/ I was also wondering if there are any XL builders in the chicagoland area? I live in the west suburbs and was just curios. Talk to you all soon, Andrew Lieser **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:35 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... From: "Ron Lendon" One question. Are you using clean dry air? -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168684#168684 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:52 PM PST US From: george may Subject: Zenith-List: Sun n Fun Anyone flying their Zodiac to Sun n Fun from the Northeast? George May 601XL 912s _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!-Play the word scramble challenge with sta r power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_ja n ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:23 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fish Eyes..... > I believe Roger Roy painted his craft with a low > pressure system using Rustoleum. I thought it looked > great and it wasn't expensive at all. Might go that > route myself. Don't know exactly what he used for > primer. I am using the self etch primer by Sherwin > Williams, so far it sticks well. I first washed it > with thinner, then used aluminum etch and then after > rinsing with water, drying and spray painted. --- steve wrote: > I m still out here painting. What a project..... > So far I m into a $966 paint job and learning about > why paint shops get $ 6K plus to do it > professionally. > My major problem is "fish eyes" in my base coats. > Yes, I cleaned the aluminum. > Yes, I used Alima Prep. > Yes, I used Alodine. > Yes, I used Epoxy Primer. > Yes, I bought the " How to paint your own airplane" > book. > > One item I m just now hearing about is Fish Eye > Eliminator.. > > Do you builders/painters have experience with FEE.. > My plan is to head out the the auto paint store in > the morning and buy this product. > I m using Sherwin Williams Acry Glo aircraft paint. > Its a poly urethane paint and I assume I can use the > eliminator in this brand.. > > Help and thanks > Steve > 601XL > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:02 PM PST US From: Jeyoung65@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor I think you are correct. The wind will transfer the heat from radiated heat and bring your reading down to air temp. Jerry of Ga.DO NOT ARCHIVE In a message dated 3/9/2008 7:35:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 601zv@ritternet.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Most certainly, and I'm planning to avoid a sunny location. I was just curious about what effect the cooling airstream might have for in flight readings if someone did do a sunny mount, and thought someone knowledgeable might chime in. I would guess that the cooling airstream would for the most part offset the sun heating, but was wondering if, as is frequently the case, I'm guessing wrong. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:58 PM PST US From: "THOMAS SMALL" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel thread sealant > I am reaching the point where I need to install the fuel tank > and accessories. What did you all use as thread sealant for > the pipe thread of the drain, finger screen and nipple > coupler? Hi Maarten, This topic arrives on a three or four month cycle and the answers are always: SealLube, FuelLube (one of these two is now Bakers), or teflon paste. I always stay quiet on this (amazing thing for me!) because my experience flies in the face of the list majority: Use teflon tape. Now here's the experience - but first a little history. Waaaaay back when I was building and the list was younger, there was a crusty old engineer, George Pinneo, who loved anything he could fabricate/purchase out of stainless steel: stainless entry steps (which were way cool), stainless fittings, even some stainless hardware. List members called him "Mr. Stainless." He also was the only proponent of using teflon tape on fittings. Since everyone else told George he was basically off on this issue (one of George's favorite words - "...no issues.") I decided that Fuel/SealLube was the way to go. But durn, the stuff came in one pound cans and I wasn't planning on building that many airplanes. An inquiry to the friendly local A&P got me a couple of dabs of both in two baby food jars. Hint: your local A&P will do stuff like this, or loan you his flaring tool, or loan you his tensionometer, or swage your control cables even with the Kearny swager, for a little help around the shop and a pizza now and then. So all fuel fittings and brake fittings were done with one or the other - keeping track of what went where. ALL LEAKED within the first 80 hours, every one of them. AN into the old aluminum gascolator that ZAC used to provide - leaked. Brass NPT into tanks for sumps - leaked. AN onto brass ends of ballcock valves used to control left/right tanks use - leaked. Fittings into Facet pumps - leaked. Fittings into ACS gascolator on firewall - leaked. Brake fittings - leaked. However, none of the flared fittings leaked. Now it's beginning to sound like I don't know how much to tighten fittings, which could well be true. Snug and then a bit more was the basic mantra, but you would think that one or two would hold. When a few of the accessible fittings were tightened a bit more, the leaks continued. I began calling the stuff FuelLeak. I used Permatex 14A Teflon Paste Sealant on the brake line fittings - leaked. One by one the fitting were taken apart and the residue of the "whatever" was cleaned off. This is no easy task. The stuff gels to various sticky lumps (very small) and reusing the fittings without thorough cleaning would be asking for trouble. The "...don't reuse after teflon tape" warnings have nothing on what you will find when you take a SealLubed fitting apart. And ask yourself - will you normally take apart a fitting for any other reason than it leaks??? I followed George's advice and used tape, but adhered to all the caveats, especially the one about starting the tape a couple of threads back from the end of the fitting. All have held since, and the bird ticked over 315 hours last week. Maybe I torqued 'em a bit more or maybe teflon tape works better; all I can say is that it's nice not to have to stand on my head and swap out fittings at the bottom of a header tank more than once. No teflon flecks or threads have shown up in the gascolator screen. So Maarten, you still have a decision to make and everyone else will tell you to use one of the "Lubes" or teflon paste. However, it didn't work out here in central Pennsylvania. Check your six...Jeff ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:22 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... I have an oil water seperator ( filter ) at the spray gun... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lendon" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 7:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... > > One question. Are you using clean dry air? > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168684#168684 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:48 PM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fish Eyes..... Fish eyes are caused by some type of oil still on or in the surface to be painted. There are several things that can cause it. The most over looked are hands and soap. If you use a soap of any kind to sand or wash the surface with, that could be the problem. I always use a dish detergent to wash down the surface before I start sanding and I use soap with my water when sanding. Check what's in the soap. A lot of the newer soaps have stuff in their products to make it easy on your hands, that stuff is generally coconut oil. If your soap has oil in it and if you sanded with it, what you have done is sand the oil into the surface. If so, you have a major problem which generally can only be fixed with fish eye additive or stripping down to bare metal and starting over. Some people will tell you it's not good to use, it shortens the life of your paint and it's sorta like cheating because you didn't do a good prep job. I don't think so. I've been using it for years on every paint job I've done, 100s. I have not seen a problem. It doesn't cost much and could very well save you a lot of money and work. I do not paint without it, it's insurance for a better job. Your hands have oil in the skin and it will transfer to your surface when touched. You should wear latex gloves as much as possible It is also a good idea to use a pre-wash made especially for lifting oils just prior to shooting. Any paint dealer has some brand of it. Take care, LRM www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: steve To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fish Eyes..... I m still out here painting. What a project..... So far I m into a $966 paint job and learning about why paint shops get $ 6K plus to do it professionally. My major problem is "fish eyes" in my base coats. Yes, I cleaned the aluminum. Yes, I used Alima Prep. Yes, I used Alodine. Yes, I used Epoxy Primer. Yes, I bought the " How to paint your own airplane" book. One item I m just now hearing about is Fish Eye Eliminator.. Do you builders/painters have experience with FEE.. My plan is to head out the the auto paint store in the morning and buy this product. I m using Sherwin Williams Acry Glo aircraft paint. Its a poly urethane paint and I assume I can use the eliminator in this brand.. Help and thanks Steve 601XL ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 3/9/2008 12:17 PM ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:37 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... I forgot to say that I live in Arizona where the humidity is low. Todat about 12%... That, with the filter on my air supply should take care of any contaminents..... I ve been online reading about fish eye eliminator and how auto paint shops use it.... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... > > I have an oil water seperator ( filter ) at the spray gun... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Lendon" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 7:16 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... > > >> >> One question. Are you using clean dry air? >> >> -------- >> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168684#168684 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:02 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Fish Eyes From: gary@telleenpiano.com Hi Steve, Where in Arizona are you located? I am located in Queen Creek and own a piano restoration shop where we do a lot of high end finish work. One overlooked place for contamination is your spray gun itself. Not only do you need perfectly clean, dry air and a clean surface on which you are applying your finish but the inside of the gun and hoses must be clean. Don't use any hoses or fittings that have been hooked up to a pre-oiler. If your gun has ever had fish eye eliminator added to any material sprayed through the gun you must always use the stuff for all paint jobs for the rest of eternity as your gun in now contaminated. The eliminator is actually a contaminate that helps to cover over another contaminate and will screw up subsequent finishes in the gun unless you add it to every paint batch. I have one gun that we use if we feel we have a need to use eliminator. My good gun has never had the stuff in it and never will. My advise is to use the eliminator as a last resort. I have completed my rudder and will soon be ordering the tail kit. Let me know if I can help you with your finish work in any way. Gary T. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:13 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Response time I have had nothing but steller service from Zenith. In most cases I call ed and had an answer with a few minutes. Emails took about a day to proc ess. My favorite way was to email Nick or Roger a pic or two, then follo w up with a call to them. There was not one issue they they/I couldn't r esolve.... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Paul Riedlinger" wrote: Agreed. I have gotten all answers back in 12 hours or less. I have eve n gotten emailed replies on Saturday and Sunday I am sure I am very specific with my questions siting plan page number, parts involved, etc. I include photo's if needed. Most importantly I p ut my serial number in the message title. Works for me. On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Stanley Challgren w rote: Zen Guys: Larry said: "Whenever I send any email to Zenith, it usually takes them at least a week to answer it. If you want better service, I suggest you pick up the phone and give them a call. You'll have your answer much quicker that way." My experience is the opposite. Three times recently I have sent Emails to Zenair and have gotten answers within 12 hours on each occasion. Of course, I could be asking easier questions. Stan N701VG -- Paul Riedlinger ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ========= _____________________________________________________________ Buried in medical files? Click here for information on an electronic sy stem. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vEBNEXSggFZ6R5Pthf PJwKdysyxxhciR3zvoqx1DuZ0BMYy/ ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:15 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... In almost every case of fisheye I have seen it was caused by oil on the surface to be painted. It will come from the your skin or various other sources. Fisheye inhibitor is a bandaid and most of the time it will wor k but will reduce the effectiveness of the paint. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "steve" wrote: > I forgot to say that I live in Arizona where the humidity is low. Todat about 12%... That, with the filter on my air supply should take care of any contaminents..... I ve been online reading about fish eye eliminator and how auto paint sh ops use it.... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... et> > > I have an oil water seperator ( filter ) at the spray gun... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Lendon" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 7:16 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... > > >> >> One question. Are you using clean dry air? >> >> -------- >> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168684#168684 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== _____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the name brand hair care products you're looking for! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4unl13B95IS1zWQjwu4 ySFsvWFJPe9iM5NGHg2nS3Tr2vPqa/ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH640 Performance Numbers From: "seattle" I'm new to the group here so hope this goes out correctly. My understanding is that not too many CH640's have been completed as of yet. For those builders who have..... Can you confirm that you are really seeing 150mph TAS at gross with 180hp? What kind of completion times are you all seeing on the quick build kit? If you had it to do over again would you still build a CH640, what would you do differently? My wife and I are hoping to get started on a kit this summer. Thanks in advance for your help. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168720#168720 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:13 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... It also makes the paint develope runs quicker, so less margin for error...... JG Do not archive >======================== ========================- = --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List _____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the name brand hair care products you're looking for! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.