---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/10/08: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:40 AM - Re: Zenith Response time (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 03:21 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (David Downey) 3. 04:58 AM - Re: Accident (ashontz) 4. 05:28 AM - Re: Re: Accident (Iberplanes IGL) 5. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Accident (Jay Maynard) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Accident (Dave Austin) 7. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Accident (William Dominguez) 8. 06:39 AM - Re: Fish Eyes (steve) 9. 06:59 AM - Hesitation (george.mueller@aurora.org) 10. 07:04 AM - Monday Evening Chat Room (George Race) 11. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Accident (John Bolding) 12. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Fish Eyes..... (LarryMcFarland) 13. 07:16 AM - brs install (Tracy) 14. 07:25 AM - Re: Accident (ashontz) 15. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Accident (Larry H) 16. 07:45 AM - Re: Accident (ashontz) 17. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Accident in Spain (William Dominguez) 18. 08:49 AM - Re: Accident (Roger Lee) 19. 09:11 AM - Re: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport PilotA/C Insurance when flying as Sport PilotA/C (Paul Tipton) 20. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Accident (nyterminat@aol.com) 21. 09:42 AM - Re: Fuel thread sealant () 22. 09:54 AM - Re: Accident (Gig Giacona) 23. 10:00 AM - Re: brs install (Les Goldner) 24. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: Accident (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 25. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor (Leo Gates) 26. 11:20 AM - Tricycle vs Taildragger Weight (Andrew Hinsdale) 27. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Accident in Spain (ernie) 28. 12:04 PM - Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger Weight (Juan Vega) 29. 12:25 PM - Re: Re: Accident in Spain (Gary Gower) 30. 12:31 PM - Off Topic: Sun-N-Fun Questions (DaveG601XL) 31. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Accident in Spain (William Dominguez) 32. 01:12 PM - Re: Off Topic: Sun-N-Fun Questions (ella) 33. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: Accident in Spain was a Zodiac 601XL and there is a picture. (William Dominguez) 34. 01:47 PM - Re: Fuel thread sealant (ronlee) 35. 02:00 PM - Re: Off Topic: Sun-N-Fun Questions (Bryan Martin) 36. 03:46 PM - Fuel Pump & Gascolator For Sale (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 37. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Accident (Graeme) 38. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: Accident (n801bh@netzero.com) 39. 07:05 PM - XL - success stories (Tim Juhl) 40. 08:37 PM - Re: XL - success stories (pavel569) 41. 09:55 PM - Accident (Joe Scheibinger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:38 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Response time Hi guys, I hope I understand this issue correctly. First, Zenith and Zenair are two completely different companies that reside in two different countries. Zenith is in Mexico, MO in the USA, while Zenair is in Canada. Second, Zenith has several different email addresses. If you send your mail to info@zenithair.com (I think) then Shirley is the first one to see the message. She will respond directly and quickly if it involves a quote for parts or other things in her domain. If it is a request for technical support she forwards it to one of the engineers. That could cause a variable delay in response depending on which engineer is targeted. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 09:39 AM 3/8/2008, you wrote: > >Zen Guys: > >Larry said: "Whenever I send any email to Zenith, it usually takes >them at least a week to answer it. If you want better service, I >suggest you pick up the phone and give them a call. You'll have your >answer much quicker that way." > >My experience is the opposite. Three times recently I have sent >Emails to Zenair and have gotten answers within 12 hours on each >occasion. Of course, I could be asking easier questions. > >Stan >N701VG > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:05 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor we discovered that the hottest surface on a 737 was the underside of the polished horizontal stabilizer when the aircraft was parked at a particular orientation on blacktop. If you are sitting on hot pavement, seems to me the heat coming off the pavement going to affect reading too. You could have a little oven between the skin and the pavement. I'm not saying this is worse than the sun, just that like everything else about flying, it's a compromise. Ron On Mar 9, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Robin Bellach wrote: > <601zv@ritternet.com> > > What does it read in the sun in a 100mph airstream? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:36 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor > > >> >> Out of curiosity, I just took my electronic temp probe out into >> the sunlight. In the shade it read 45.3 degF; in the sun, 73.9 >> degF after about 4 minutes. >> >> Jay in Dallas >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> David Downey wrote: >> >>> ...could be - but the purpose is to give a reading while flying - >>> and it would take a very black probe and flying very near the sun >>> to have more than a very very small influence after the first >>> several minutes of flight. >>> >>> Jaybannist@cs.com >>> >>> Dave, >>> >>> If I'm not mistaken, those probes were shielded so that the probe >>> was not exposed to direct sunlight. The Dynon probe is not >>> shielded. >>> >>> Jay in Dallas >>> Do not archive >>> >>> >>> David Downey >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I would have thought that the OAT was intended to read OAT - in >>>> flight. In the past the probes were direct reading dial >>>> thermometers and on many aircraft stuck right through the canopy >>>> bow. >>>> >>>> >>>> I mounted mine in the fuselage bottom in the access hole of the >>>> co-pilot's seat just aft of the main carry thru spar. This >>>> keeps it out the sun (very important) and away from the exhaust >>>> gas. It works very good. >>>> Dave Nixon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168400#168400 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave Downey >>>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>>> 100 HP Corvair >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! >>>> Mobile. Try it now. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave Downey >>> Harleysville (SE) PA >>> 100 HP Corvair >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >>> >> >> >> >> > > Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident From: "ashontz" Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. Kevin Bonds wrote: > Andy, > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > Kevin Bonds > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168739#168739 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:45 AM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. 2008/3/10, Iberplanes IGL : > > Si es por un ala, me comienza a preocupar. Voy a investigar y te cuento. > > saludos > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: ashontz > Date: 10-mar-2008 12:55 > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > > Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead > of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits > control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. > > > Kevin Bonds wrote: > > Andy, > > > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have > > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I > > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to > > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > > > Kevin Bonds > > > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168739#168739 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:39 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 01:25:43PM +0100, Iberplanes IGL wrote: > > > > Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead > > of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits > > control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. > We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. Now I'm curious. How does ths square with the pictures on AMD's site of load-testing the wings to +6G? I'm sure there's something I'm missing, but I can't figure out what it is. Since I'm buying instead of building, I can't add extra ribs or the like... -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:49 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident IMHO, it could well have been a bird strike - bits of the canopy spread wide. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:54 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident If you find a link to that accident in Barcelona please post it. I'm fluent in Spanish so I can translate it, if it is in Catalan I can still get it translated with the help some of my wife's family. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Iberplanes IGL wrote: We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. 2008/3/10, Iberplanes IGL : Si es por un ala, me comienza a preocupar. Voy a investigar y te cuento. saludos ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ashontz Date: 10-mar-2008 12:55 Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. Kevin Bonds wrote: > Andy, > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > Kevin Bonds > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168739#168739 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:28 AM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fish Eyes Thanks Gary. Im at the Sun Valley Airpark. Located near Bullhead City / Laughlin. I woke up last night in a sweat. My nightmare which is fact is this::: My compressor is very old. Sometimes I use an oil / water separator and sometimes I dont. I bet I sprayed the primer on without a filter ..... Today I m going out and see if I can purchase an oil seperator locally. I ll also buy a new hose.... These small pin holes are a pain... I think (know) that the finishing of airplanes is the most difficult task of the whole project.. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Fish Eyes > > Hi Steve, > > Where in Arizona are you located? I am located in Queen Creek and own a > piano restoration shop where we do a lot of high end finish work. One > overlooked place for contamination is your spray gun itself. Not only do > you need perfectly clean, dry air and a clean surface on which you are > applying your finish but the inside of the gun and hoses must be clean. > Don't use any hoses or fittings that have been hooked up to a pre-oiler. > If your gun has ever had fish eye eliminator added to any material sprayed > through the gun you must always use the stuff for all paint jobs for the > rest of eternity as your gun in now contaminated. The eliminator is > actually a contaminate that helps to cover over another contaminate and > will screw up subsequent finishes in the gun unless you add it to every > paint batch. I have one gun that we use if we feel we have a need to use > eliminator. My good gun has never had the stuff in it and never will. My > advise is to use the eliminator as a last resort. > > I have completed my rudder and will soon be ordering the tail kit. Let me > know if I can help you with your finish work in any way. > > Gary T. > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Hesitation From: george.mueller@aurora.org I am having a hesitation when I put the throttle in on my 912UL powered Zenith 701. The RPMs come up smoothly as I put the throttle in, but when I get close to full power, I get a hesitation for about 1 or 2 seconds at around 4800 RPM. Then, after this hesitation, the RPM continues on to 5200, which is what I am currently getting at wide open throttle on takeoff. I am thinking there is something about the geometry of my throttle cables that might be causing this but when I take the cowl off and watch the cables move the throttle it seems pretty smooth all the way to full power. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this? George in Milwaukee CH 701 912UL ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:33 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Monday Evening Chat Room Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern (Daylight Savings Time now in effect) http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George CH-701 N73EX (Reserved) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:29 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident > > , and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick > travel at and above manuevering speed. CAREFUL THERE !!! think that thru before you limit (even with override)control travel. John ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:42 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... Steve, To preclude the compressor feeding oil into your paint, a Motor Guard M30 Filter is a good product. It will keep water, oil and everything else out. Not expensive, but really good product. Very large dense filter downstream from a water and oil separator on a compressor is about the size of a roll of toilet paper, but very dense. Filters are replaceable and not expensive. It's as good as it gets. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com steve wrote: > > I have an oil water seperator ( filter ) at the spray gun... > > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 7:16 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fish Eyes..... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:59 AM PST US From: Tracy Subject: Zenith-List: brs install has anybody installed the brs chute canister in the extended bagage copartment on a 701? how big do you make the plastic cover openin gin the skin and how deep do you score the plastic so that it will break open when deployed? thanks ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident From: "ashontz" I've already discussed this with Dave Downey and he likes my design. John Bolding wrote: > > > > > > > , and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick > > travel at and above manuevering speed. > > > > > > > > > > CAREFUL THERE !!! think that thru before you limit (even with > override)control travel. > John -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168779#168779 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:29 AM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident No matter what the cause was, I personally feel the BRS would be a great investment for "just in case you ever need it". You can't put a price tag on a system that could potentially save your life. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident From: "ashontz" I'm installing one for sure. [quote="skyridersbn"]No matter what the cause was, I personally feel the BRS would be a great investment for "just in case you ever need it". You can't put a price tag on a system that could potentially save your life. > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168785#168785 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:26 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident in Spain Are you refering to this accident?: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cataluna/muertos/estrellarse/avioneta/vinedo/Subirats/elpepiespcat/20080206elpcat_28/Tes The news doesn't mention make and model but it is about an 2 place aircraft that apparently lost a wing in flight. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Iberplanes IGL wrote: We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. 2008/3/10, Iberplanes IGL : Si es por un ala, me comienza a preocupar. Voy a investigar y te cuento. saludos ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ashontz Date: 10-mar-2008 12:55 Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. Kevin Bonds wrote: > Andy, > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > Kevin Bonds > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168739#168739 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident From: "Roger Lee" Hi Guys, Question: If you were the pilot falling out of the sky, hurtling to the ground in total fear to die what would you give at that moment in your life to get back on the ground in one piece? If the answer is anything or everything then it sounds like a BRS is cheap insurance and piece of mind! This is the question that was ask of me in the early 1980's when flying ultralights and the parachute for them first appeared. I have had a chute ever since then. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168808#168808 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:14 AM PST US From: "Paul Tipton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A/C Insurance when flying as Sport PilotA/C Insurance when flying as Sport PilotA/C I am insured through Falcon, who is using AIG for my insurer. My insurance went down 30% this year. I insure My 701 for Liability and Hull insurance (not in motion). I am mostly concerned about the things I have no control over in regard to the hull (windstorm, etc). Sure makes me a little more conservative in the way I fly when the buck stops with me. You insure what you cannot afford to lose and assume what loss you can afford to lose (so to speak). Insurance is not all the same even from the same insurer. The cost and coverage of insurance can also depend upon how the broker presents your "case" to the insurer. Experienced brokers know what the insurance underwriter wants to hear and how he wants to hear it. Underwriters knows the brokers he trusts and the ones he doesn't. Anything an underwriter is not familiar with or is unsure about will cost more. It is not about sticking it to anyone, it is about risk, what they feel is acceptable, and what amount of money makes the risk acceptable. Find a broker who knows their business and the class of planes you are flying and try to stick with them. It pays in the long-run. CH701SP 321PT 170 hours ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident From: nyterminat@aol.com Andy, What no BRS chute???????????????? Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. Kevin Bonds wrote: -----Original Message----- From: ashontz Sent: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 7:55 am Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. Kevin Bonds wrote: > Andy, > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > Kevin Bonds > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168739#168739 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel thread sealant From: But use the yellow Teflon tape, it is recommended as it is resistant to gasoline. Also, snug plus a bit more may be applicable to flare fittings but pipe fittings should be wrench tight. Craig S. N601XS, 601xl 0-235 lyc I followed George's advice and used tape, but adhered to all the caveats, especially the one about starting the tape a couple of threads back from the end of the fitting. All have held since, and the bird ticked over 315 hours last week. Maybe I torqued 'em a bit more or maybe Teflon tape works better; all I can say is that it's nice not to have to stand on my head and swap out fittings at the bottom of a header tank more than once. No Teflon flecks or threads have shown up in the gascolator screen. ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. ************************************************** ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident From: "Gig Giacona" The biggest cost of BRS is the loss of baggage carrying ability. That's 30 lbs back at the rear of the CG envelope. I picked the 601 because it is a pretty good X-C aircraft. If adding a BRS negates the ability of the aircraft to do the mission that I need it to do that is to high a price to pay for what should never be used in the first place. I've seen nothing to make me believe that any of the wing failure accidents have been caused by anything other than the aircraft being stressed beyond the design specs. And those wing failure accidents are the only failure mode that has shown up in the 601 that the BRS would be the best option. In fact in at least one or two of those accident I seem to remember that the BRS probably wouldn't have helped because the aircraft was at low altitude when the failure took place. I have no problem with someone choosing to install a BRS but I personally think that the a lot more lives would be saved if the $3K+ was spent on training instead of the chute. All aircraft ever built have been a collection of design compromises. For those of you that seem to think there is a design issue I have to ask. What the hell are you doing building one or more to the point flying one? If I thought there was a design failure I'd sell mine for scrap. Roger Lee wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Question: > > If you were the pilot falling out of the sky, hurtling to the ground in total fear to die what would you give at that moment in your life to get back on the ground in one piece? If the answer is anything or everything then it sounds like a BRS is cheap insurance and piece of mind! > > This is the question that was ask of me in the early 1980's when flying ultralights and the parachute for them first appeared. I have had a chute ever since then. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168825#168825 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:23 AM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: brs install Tracy I installed a BRS soft-pack behind the baggage compartment rather than following BRS's suggested installation forward of this bulkhead. I did this because a deployment so close to my head would probably blow out my eardrums and because I didn't want to loose a lot of baggage space. In my opinion, the the BRS design for 701 installation is inadequate so I made some mods. Regardless or whether you install the chute forward or behind the baggage bulkhead you will need to add extra supports gussets to top and bottom the bulkhead. I also added a 1/8th inch "L" horizontally side-to-side. The force exerted by the rocket on the the tube (and subsequently to the bulkhead would probably distort an unsupported bulkhead. This could prevent the chute from deploying. BRS approved my mods based upon information I sent them and should include these mods with their installation instructions for 701s. One concern I had was that placing the 35-pound chute so far back would push the CG too far aft. However, my empty CG (with 912 ULS power plant) came out 373mm aft of the front of the slats. (the allowed loaded range is 280 to 500mm). Even fully loaded, I can add up to 50# of baggage without exceeding 500mm. If I carefully keep the baggage CG forward (using a cargo net) with my strengthened baggage compartment, I can have over 50# of cargo without going over 500mm. I can send you pictures of my installation if you email me; lgold@quantum-associates.com Les > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 7:14 AM > To: zenith-list: matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: brs install > > > has anybody installed the brs chute canister in the extended > bagage copartment on a 701? how big do you make the plastic > cover openin gin the skin and how deep do you score the > plastic so that it will break open when deployed? > thanks > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:24 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Just my $0.02. In so far as there is a big difference between the 601HD(S) and the 601XL wing has anyone looked as which type is being reported(?) as having wing failure? Is there any report that has confirmed a wing failure on any 601? Jerry of Ga. DO NOT ARCHIVE In a message dated 3/10/2008 12:14:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nyterminat@aol.com writes: Andy, What no BRS chute???????????????? (mailto:ashontz@nbme.org) > Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. . **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:01 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon's OAT sensor 45 years ago when I was a navigator in C-124s, I had to deduct 1 degree centigrade from the in-flight OAT reading due to air friction on the probe at our TAS (200K). Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote: > I think you are correct. The wind will transfer the heat from radiated > heat and bring your reading down to air temp. Jerry of Ga.DO NOT ARCHIVE > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:53 AM PST US From: Andrew Hinsdale Subject: Zenith-List: Tricycle vs Taildragger Weight Hello Listers Does anybody have a good estimate of the empty weight difference between the 601XL Tri-Gear and Taildragger versions? It seems like the TD should be lighter, but how much? Thank You Andy Hinsdale Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:26 AM PST US From: ernie Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident in Spain using http://babelfish.altavista.com/ to translate. I got this. Not much more information in it, with out reading spainish. do not archive Two died when crashing a small plane in vi?o of Subirats The neighbors saw c? the apparatus cay?ras to break one of its wings *PERE LOBATO* *- Sant d'Ordal Pau - *06/02/2008 It votes Result [image: Without Inter?title =][image: Little interesting][image: Of Inter?title =][image: Very interesting][image: Essential] 0 votes [image: To print] [image: To send] Two people were killed in Subirats (Alt Pened yesterday, when the small plane that piloted desplom?n a zone agr?la of poblaci? The two v?imas?cos occupants of the two-seater, were experienced pilots and all the indications point at that the accident debi? a failure mec?co. The news in others webs - webs in Spanish - in other languages The small plane cay? the six of afternoon, to hardly 40 meters of the field of f?ol of Sant d'Ordal Pau, main the urban n?eo of the municipality. At that moment they trained in the field the youngest children of the local equipment. The accident was present at numerous neighbors. The deceaseds are Jordi Conesa, of 37 a, neighbor of Sant Cugat Sesgarrigues and proprietor of the ill-fated apparatus, and his acompa?te Santi F. To, of 41 a, that *d'Esquadra *in Vilafranca was *mosso*. Both were experienced pilots and even Santi ten?el card of private pilot. The testimony of some neighbors indicates that the breakage of one of the wings, preceded of one explosi? it was the cause of the accident. "If you remain without one of the wings, you remain without direcci, it said Josep Pinyar, manager of aer?omo of Avinyonet of the Pened? where the apparatus was *hangarado.* The pilots dispon? to return to aer?omo when seeing that he began to grow dark. The breakage of the wing took place to three kil?tros of its destiny. The accident was r?do. V?imas s? they had time to avoid ca? in the field of f?ol, where one of the children of Jordi played, the neighbors explained. If the t?ico failure had been of another type, possibly habr? been able to stop the motor and to glide until aer?omo. The mayor of Subirats, Antoni Soler, matiz?ue the apparatus to podr?haber had alg?problema with the motor. Aviaci?Civil determinar?as exact causes of the wreck. The neighbors who were in the zone approached until the place where cay?l apparatus, next to the field of f?ol and to few meters of a house. The firemen arrived 10 minutes despu? Last night, the firemen and *the mossos*worked a?para to retire the small plane and to locate some of their rest, that fell throughout the?imos meters of their passage after explosi? Some of these rest were in a radius of 300 meters. Brown the Lemuel young person went in bici when oy?na explosi?y when raising the head saw the small plane with a wing broken and giving piruetas before falling. On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 7:56 AM, William Dominguez wrote: > > Are you refering to this accident?: > > > http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cataluna/muertos/estrellarse/avioneta/vinedo/Subirats/elpepiespcat/20080206elpcat_28/Tes > > The news doesn't mention make and model but it is about an 2 place > aircraft that apparently lost a wing in flight. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami, Florida > http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > > *Iberplanes IGL * wrote: > > We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. > > > 2008/3/10, Iberplanes IGL : > > > > Si es por un ala, me comienza a preocupar. Voy a investigar y te cuento. > > > > saludos > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: ashontz > > Date: 10-mar-2008 12:55 > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks > > instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that > > limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. > > > > > > Kevin Bonds wrote: > > > Andy, > > > > > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may > > have > > > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. > > I > > > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > > > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > > > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > > > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > > > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed > > to > > > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > > > > > Kevin Bonds > > > > > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > * > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:00 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tricycle vs Taildragger Weight 20 lbs. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Andrew Hinsdale >Sent: Mar 10, 2008 2:17 PM >To: Zenith List >Subject: Zenith-List: Tricycle vs Taildragger Weight > > >Hello Listers > >Does anybody have a good estimate of the empty weight >difference between the 601XL Tri-Gear and Taildragger >versions? It seems like the TD should be lighter, but >how much? > >Thank You >Andy Hinsdale > > >Be a better friend, newshound, and >know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:09 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident in Spain Hello William, A least in a yahoo group from Spain, where they were members, in message 22607 from Feb 08/2008 they post that it was a 601 XL, Is in the only post (in lots of condolences and questions) that they mention about the possible airplane, but nothing else. Hope our friend "Iberplanes" can do a more certain follow up. I found the post doing a google search of "Jordi Conesa" the owners name (God Bless Him and his family). Saludos Gary Gower. Flying from Chapala, Mexico. William Dominguez wrote: Are you refering to this accident?: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cataluna/muertos/estrellarse/avioneta/vinedo/Subirats/elpepiespcat/20080206elpcat_28/Tes The news doesn't mention make and model but it is about an 2 place aircraft that apparently lost a wing in flight. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Iberplanes IGL wrote: We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. 2008/3/10, Iberplanes IGL : Si es por un ala, me comienza a preocupar. Voy a investigar y te cuento. saludos ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ashontz Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. Kevin Bonds wrote: > Andy, > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > Kevin Bonds > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Off Topic: Sun-N-Fun Questions From: "DaveG601XL" I am planning on attending Sun-n-fun for the first time. I will be flying commercial and staying in the campgrounds there. Since I am flying commercial, I will not be bringing the usual food preparation utensils, coolers or cooking supplies. I have camped at Oshkosh may years now. Can I expect similar accommodations as far as showers, port-o-potties, available food, etc.?? How about local off-site eateries? Is the flight line close enough to the campground that you can comfortably to walk to it? Any hints on surviving Sun-N-Fun are appreciated. Thanks, do not archive Dr. Ed, are you going to be there this year? -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail & wings completed and fueslage pretty well done. Working engine and electrical systems. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168859#168859 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:55 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident in Spain I didn't find much information in this news and I'm fluent in Spanish, the only relevant info is that there is a 2 seater that broke a wing in mid air after an explosion. I have found that other news sources that covered this accident are talking about an engine failure as the cause. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom wrote: using http://babelfish.altavista.com/ to translate. I got this. Not much more information in it, with out reading spainish. do not archive Two died when crashing a small plane in vi?o of Subirats The neighbors saw c? the apparatus cay?ras to break one of its wings PERE LOBATO - Sant d'Ordal Pau - 06/02/2008 It votes Result 0 votes Two people were killed in Subirats (Alt Pened yesterday, when the small plane that piloted desplom?n a zone agr?la of poblaci? The two v?imas?cos occupants of the two-seater, were experienced pilots and all the indications point at that the accident debi? a failure mec?co. The news in others webs webs in Spanish in other languages The small plane cay? the six of afternoon, to hardly 40 meters of the field of f?ol of Sant d'Ordal Pau, main the urban n?eo of the municipality. At that moment they trained in the field the youngest children of the local equipment. The accident was present at numerous neighbors. The deceaseds are Jordi Conesa, of 37 a, neighbor of Sant Cugat Sesgarrigues and proprietor of the ill-fated apparatus, and his acompa?te Santi F. To, of 41 a, that d'Esquadra in Vilafranca was mosso. Both were experienced pilots and even Santi ten?el card of private pilot. The testimony of some neighbors indicates that the breakage of one of the wings, preceded of one explosi? it was the cause of the accident. "If you remain without one of the wings, you remain without direcci, it said Josep Pinyar, manager of aer?omo of Avinyonet of the Pened? where the apparatus was hangarado. The pilots dispon? to return to aer?omo when seeing that he began to grow dark. The breakage of the wing took place to three kil?tros of its destiny. The accident was r?do. V?imas s? they had time to avoid ca? in the field of f?ol, where one of the children of Jordi played, the neighbors explained. If the t?ico failure had been of another type, possibly habr? been able to stop the motor and to glide until aer?omo. The mayor of Subirats, Antoni Soler, matiz?ue the apparatus to podr?haber had alg?problema with the motor. Aviaci?Civil determinar?as exact causes of the wreck. The neighbors who were in the zone approached until the place where cay?l apparatus, next to the field of f?ol and to few meters of a house. The firemen arrived 10 minutes despu? Last night, the firemen and the mossos worked a?para to retire the small plane and to locate some of their rest, that fell throughout the?imos meters of their passage after explosi? Some of these rest were in a radius of 300 meters. Brown the Lemuel young person went in bici when oy?na explosi?y when raising the head saw the small plane with a wing broken and giving piruetas before falling. On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 7:56 AM, William Dominguez wrote: Are you refering to this accident?: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cataluna/muertos/estrellarse/avioneta/vinedo/Subirats/elpepiespcat/20080206elpcat_28/Tes The news doesn't mention make and model but it is about an 2 place aircraft that apparently lost a wing in flight. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Iberplanes IGL wrote: We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. 2008/3/10, Iberplanes IGL : Si es por un ala, me comienza a preocupar. Voy a investigar y te cuento. saludos ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ashontz Date: 10-mar-2008 12:55 Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. Kevin Bonds wrote: > Andy, > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > Kevin Bonds > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:18 PM PST US From: "ella" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off Topic: Sun-N-Fun Questions Hi Short walk from campground but they also have shuttle trams that run about every hour Thanks don----- Original Message ----- From: "DaveG601XL" Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Off Topic: Sun-N-Fun Questions > > I am planning on attending Sun-n-fun for the first time. I will be flying commercial and staying in the campgrounds there. Since I am flying commercial, I will not be bringing the usual food preparation utensils, coolers or cooking supplies. I have camped at Oshkosh may years now. Can I expect similar accommodations as far as showers, port-o-potties, available food, etc.?? How about local off-site eateries? Is the flight line close enough to the campground that you can comfortably to walk to it? > > Any hints on surviving Sun-N-Fun are appreciated. > > Thanks, > do not archive > > Dr. Ed, are you going to be there this year? > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail & wings completed and > fueslage pretty well done. Working engine and electrical systems. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168859#168859 > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:19 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident in Spain was a Zodiac 601XL and there is a picture. I found this from from the accident page of ultraligero.net, the entry is at the bottom: http://www.ultraligero.net/Accidentes/08.htm Here is a picture if you can make sense of it: http://www.ultraligero.net/Accidentes/sant_pau.jpg I've made a translation, keep in mind that I'm not a professional translator, just someone fluent in Spanish: 02/05/2008 Subirats (Barcelona) Zenair 601 XL Jordi Conesa 37, and Santiago F. A. 41 members of the Penedes club have died. The ultralight they where piloting crashed in an agricultural zone. The 2 victims where experimented pilots and all indications point to a mechanical failure. The aircraft crashed at 40 meters from the football camp at Sant Pau d' Ordal, the principal urban nucleus of the municipality. At that moment, the benjamines of the local team where training in the field. The accident was witnessed by numerous neighbors. The testimony of some of the witnesses indicate that the breakage of one of the wings, preceded by an explosion, was the cause of the accident. The pilots where returning the the airfield when they realized that it was getting dark. I will keep looking for more info and will post if something new show up. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Gary Gower Hello William, A least in a yahoo group from Spain, where they were members, in message 22607 from Feb 08/2008 they post that it was a 601 XL, Is in the only post (in lots of condolences and questions) that they mention about the possible airplane, but nothing else. Hope our friend "Iberplanes" can do a more certain follow up. I found the post doing a google search of "Jordi Conesa" the owners name (God Bless Him and his family). Saludos Gary Gower. Flying from Chapala, Mexico. William Dominguez wrote: Are you refering to this accident?: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cataluna/muertos/estrellarse/avioneta/vinedo/Subirats/elpepiespcat/20080206elpcat_28/Tes The news doesn't mention make and model but it is about an 2 place aircraft that apparently lost a wing in flight. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Iberplanes IGL wrote: We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. 2008/3/10, Iberplanes IGL : Si es por un ala, me comienza a preocupar. Voy a investigar y te cuento. saludos ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ashontz Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks instead of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that limits control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. Kevin Bonds wrote: > Andy, > > Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sounds more like there may have > been a problem with the canopy, if I had to guess--which we shouldn't. I > know an eyewitness stated that a wing /may/ have come off, but I doubt > many eyewitnesses would know a wing from a rudder or any other part in > that instance. Hopefully they will recover the plane. The wings could, > very well, still be intact. Sounds like the canopy will not be since > they found 3 pieces of it scattered on shore. The plane was supposed to > have gone-in 700 meters from shore. > > Kevin Bonds > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Thoe extra wings ribs are looking better and better all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:44 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel thread sealant From: "ronlee" My experience has been the same as Jeff's regarding leaks with other dope. I have never had a leak with Teflon tape. If it is put on properly your fitting will not leak and it doesn't have to real tight either. I have found that when removing a fitting that has had Teflon tape the easiest way to clean out the female threads of the Teflon residue is with a brass gun cleaning brush. Put it in your drill motor in reverse and it will clean out all residue. I do not use Teflon beyond the last fuel filter though. -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168873#168873 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:44 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off Topic: Sun-N-Fun Questions If you have Google Earth, look up KLAL. The main portion of the campground is just south of the approach end of runway 9 and the overflow area is in the pastures west of there. Just to the east of the main campground, two large wooded areas separate the it from the main display area. The four large hangars in a diagonal row are used for the indoor vendor displays with the outdoor display areas mostly to the north and east of them. The homebuilt parking area is along the south side of runway 9-27 just north of this main display area. From the main entrance of the campground where most of the tent camping is to the main display area is about a half mile walk. The diagonal runway is closed during the show and most of the south side of the airport is used for aircraft camping, ultralight and helicopter flight demos, and aircraft displays. The warbirds are usually parked along the diagonal runway. The shower facilities and food vendors are similar to what you'd see at Oshkosh. The main food court is set up south west of the four display hangars. There is a corn roast run by an EAA chapter set up in the main campground every evening during the show where you can get roasted sweet corn, hot dogs and beverages pretty cheap. Another chapter puts on a barbecue dinner on some evenings. There is also a camp store near the main entrance to the campground, it was closed the last time I was there due to hurricane damage but it should be back up and running now. The forums and workshops are south east of the main display hangars. Sun'N'Fun is a much smaller venue than Oshkosh with a much slower pace and a lot less walking involved. Just don't step in any ant mounds, those fire ants are a bitch. They spray for them every year but the can't kill them all. The main camping area is usually clear of them but I have encountered them in aircraft camping and overflow camping. Keep your tent screens zipped up tight. > > I am planning on attending Sun-n-fun for the first time. I will be flying commercial and staying in the campgrounds there. Since I am flying commercial, I will not be bringing the usual food preparation utensils, coolers or cooking supplies. I have camped at Oshkosh may years now. Can I expect similar accommodations as far as showers, port-o-potties, available food, etc.?? How about local off-site eateries? Is the flight line close enough to the campground that you can comfortably to walk to it? > > Any hints on surviving Sun-N-Fun are appreciated. > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:15 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump & Gascolator For Sale Gang: I have the following unused (new) fuel system parts for sale: Facet 40105 Fuel Pump - $20 + shipping ($29.75 from AS&S, $42 from Zenith) Zenith-mod (with tabs) Gascolator - $45 + shipping ($62.75 from AS&S, $81.40 from Zenith) I modified my fuel system and these are now surplus to my needs. Save me some time and get both for $60 + shipping! Please contact me off-list. Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:11 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Has anyone from the group considered a top wing strut for the ch601. (ag cat!) even a light strut would triangate the wing increasing the load bearing by multiples. I could be removed if you were sure you went not going to exceed the design specs. But would instill confidence for those wanting to fly in rough weather. There may be a small trade off in drag. I think it would be preferable to a BRS chute. Graemecns ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Maynard" Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident > > On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 01:25:43PM +0100, Iberplanes IGL wrote: >> > >> > Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks >> > instead >> > of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that >> > limits >> > control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. >> We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. > > Now I'm curious. How does ths square with the pictures on AMD's site of > load-testing the wings to +6G? I'm sure there's something I'm missing, but > I > can't figure out what it is. Since I'm buying instead of building, I can't > add extra ribs or the like... > -- > Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com > http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net > Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) > AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order) > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 10/03/2008 11:07 AM > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:20 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident You are going to need to find a very strong location to anchor it to the fuselage. The only thing that comes to mind is where the instrument pan el is. Altho it probably isn't strong enough to transfer loads from one side to the other. If the 601's upper longerons are like the 801's they will not stand to much of a side load.. IMHO do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Graeme" wrote: u> Has anyone from the group considered a top wing strut for the ch601. (ag cat!) even a light strut would triangate the wing increasing the load bearing by multiples. I could be removed if you were sure you went not going to exceed the des ign specs. But would instill confidence for those wanting to fly in rough weather. There may be a small trade off in drag. I think it would be preferable to a BRS chute. Graemecns ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Maynard" Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident > > On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 01:25:43PM +0100, Iberplanes IGL wrote: >> > >> > Regardless, I'm adding extra ribs, going with the 12 gallon tanks >> > instead >> > of the 15, no wing-locker, and some sort of overridable system that >> > limits >> > control surface/stick travel at and above manuevering speed. >> We had an 601 XL down in Barcelona 2 month ago. Aparently, wing fold. > > Now I'm curious. How does ths square with the pictures on AMD's site o f > load-testing the wings to +6G? I'm sure there's something I'm missing, but > I > can't figure out what it is. Since I'm buying instead of building, I c an't > add extra ribs or the like... > -- > Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com > http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net > Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) > AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order) > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 10/03/2008 11:07 AM > > ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== _____________________________________________________________ Best selection of Bibles. Click Now http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uckmZeegCYeNLpDW9Y W3E7xLX9vOx9ZxCORtnjpm7UENFRA/ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:02 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: XL - success stories From: "Tim Juhl" Recent news has raised concerns again concerning the safety of the design of the XL. It is proper to be concerned but what do we really know? While we are waiting and wondering I'd like to hear from those of you that are flying your XL. Perhaps you'd be willing to share with the rest of us how many hours you have on your plane and a brief comment regarding your overall satisfaction. Tim Juhl -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168928#168928 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL - success stories From: "pavel569" The problem is - you'll never see an article in a newspaper about a "guy who fly his Zodiac XL for so many hours without any problem". People just want to see a debris on the ground that not a long ago use to be an airplane. It just a nature of ours, I guess. If there is a problem with either an airframe rigidity or material weakness, there would be hundreds of 601's in scrap metal junkyards and hundreds of gravestones with pilots names on them. There is a few, of course. But the reason can be over stressing the airframe by rough pilotage, lack of craftsmanship or compromising quality when building. If we fly the Zodiac as it is a Cherokee, not trying to get closer to critical loads, I think we will be fine. Big words for a guy who will (hopefully) get his private license next month, right? But I don't think that anyone who builds and/or fly wants to kill himself. Just be friend to your plane, don't twist her hands, don't bent her neck and she will be a good friend of yours too. -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=168941#168941 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:27 PM PST US From: "Joe Scheibinger" Subject: Zenith-List: Accident Got this from my friend in Austrailia. Looks like it was a story in the local news paper. Tony Wilson 11Mar08 A BIRD strike on some part of Garry Sweetnam's Zenith Zodiac aircraft is being suggested as a possible cause of the crash which claimed two lives. While the official investigation into the crash is just beginning, Australian Wings Academy chief executive officer Phil Sweeney said he had seen the damage a bird could inflict on an aircraft. "We'll probably never know but I personally suspect it may have been a bird strike," he said. "We had a bird strike on a Cessna on its final coming into the airfield about a year or 15 months ago. "We've got Cessna 172s with a high wing on them and it hit about 3ft or 4ft out from the fuselage on the wing and it left a huge dint. "There were three instructors on board and they were actually doing instructor training and it scared them. "They landed but what really worried them was that if that hit the cockpit window, it would have ended up in the cockpit and they could have been completely knocked out or certainly so disoriented they wouldn't have been able to land the plane. "If Garry was getting along at 110 knots or 200km/h and a dirty great big pelican or sea eagle hit them ... if it hit the wing then it could have torn the wing straight off at the speed they were going. "Or it might have hit the canopy. You just don't know. It's total speculation. "Until they find the remains of the plane and bring it up, you're just not going to know." Mr Sweeney said the one thing he was sure about was that whatever happened in the air that fateful Friday, it would not have been pilot or plane error. "Garry was just too safe," said Mr Sweeney. Garry Sweetnam, 48 and Andrew Mitchell, 33, were on a short 20-minute flight in the home-made kit plane to check it out before an air show, when it plummeted into the ocean at Narrow Neck just after 4pm on Friday. Another Gold Coast pilot who did not want to be named also said a bird strike was the most likely scenario. "Given Garry's safety record, it's what a lot of pilots have been talking about," said the pilot. "It makes the most sense, but obviously we will have to wait until the wreckage is recovered." That may not be until late in the week. Water Police acting Senior Sergeant Mark Kelly said a Water Police boat searched the area yesterday morning but with a 4m swell running it was impossible to conduct a proper search. "It's too rough for divers. We will have a Water Police boat out again this morning," he said. "But the forecast is worse than yesterday's, so we don't think we will be able to put divers and the sonar back in the water until later in the week." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.