Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:38 AM - canopy (David Downey)
2. 04:09 AM - Re: canopy (Timothy Croy)
3. 04:51 AM - Re: 601 XL Airspeed Indicator Markings (Juan Vega)
4. 04:57 AM - Re: Corvair 5th bearing (ashontz)
5. 05:24 AM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (Jaybannist@cs.com)
6. 05:58 AM - Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (Frank Roskind)
7. 06:01 AM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (Sabrina)
8. 06:11 AM - Re: canopy (Larry H)
9. 06:25 AM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (cookwithgas)
10. 07:05 AM - Re: Accident Prevention (Scott Thatcher)
11. 07:13 AM - Re: canopy (Jaybannist@cs.com)
12. 07:44 AM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (LarryMcFarland)
13. 07:55 AM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (Gig Giacona)
14. 08:05 AM - Re: canopy (Larry Winger)
15. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Corvair 5th bearing (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
16. 08:10 AM - Re: True Idenity (steve)
17. 08:25 AM - TEST MESSAGE (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
18. 08:39 AM - Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
19. 08:47 AM - Parts for Sale (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
20. 08:59 AM - Baron vs Bird photos (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
21. 09:11 AM - Re: Baron vs Bird photos (Gig Giacona)
22. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (Gordon)
23. 09:16 AM - Re: canopy (Dave Johnson)
24. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Corvair 5th bearing ... Nitriding (Pramod Kotwal)
25. 09:34 AM - Zenith letter (hansriet)
26. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: Bird Strike! (Larry H)
27. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Accident Hysteria (japhillipsga@aol.com)
28. 09:57 AM - Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (japhillipsga@aol.com)
29. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (Dave Johnson)
30. 10:03 AM - Re: Bird Strike! (Gig Giacona)
31. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (steve)
32. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: Annoying Rotax 912ULS engine vibration (Les Goldner)
33. 11:08 AM - Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
34. 11:11 AM - Re: canopy ()
35. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (ernie)
36. 12:39 PM - Re: canopy (Terry Phillips)
37. 12:58 PM - Re: canopy (Larry H)
38. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (MaxNr@aol.com)
39. 01:20 PM - Re: NASON Oil Presssure Switch (a.f.rupp@ATT.NET)
40. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (Bryan Martin)
41. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Painting XL nose strut (Clive Richards)
42. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (Bryan Martin)
43. 02:06 PM - Re: canopy (Larry H)
44. 02:38 PM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (swater6)
45. 02:44 PM - Re: Accident Prevention (ashontz)
46. 03:03 PM - Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (ashontz)
47. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Painting XL nose strut (Craig Payne)
48. 03:42 PM - new ring mount old cowl (Tracy)
49. 04:22 PM - Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (steveadams)
50. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Re: Accident Prevention (n801bh@netzero.com)
51. 04:38 PM - Re: Accident Prevention (Tim Juhl)
52. 04:46 PM - Re: Accident (petrdworak)
53. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (ernie)
54. 05:12 PM - 701 Cowl (kmccune)
55. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: Painting XL nose strut (John Lenhardt)
56. 05:26 PM - Re: 701 Cowl (rbjjr)
57. 05:37 PM - Re: Bird Strike! (ashontz)
58. 05:41 PM - Re: 701 Cowl (Jon Croke)
59. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (Jerry Hey)
60. 05:59 PM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (swater6)
61. 05:59 PM - Re: 701 Cowl (kmccune)
62. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (Jay Maynard)
63. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: Accident (Dan)
64. 06:26 PM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (David Downey)
65. 06:31 PM - Re: canopy (David Downey)
66. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (David Downey)
67. 06:35 PM - Re: Baron vs Bird photos (KEVINBONDS@comcast.net)
68. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: Bird Strike! (Larry H)
69. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Corvair 5th bearing ... Nitriding (KEVINBONDS@comcast.net)
70. 06:52 PM - Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT (KEVINBONDS@comcast.net)
71. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Insurance Rates! (Paul Mulwitz)
72. 07:01 PM - Re: Painting XL nose strut (Jon Croke)
73. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: CH701 Warpdrive (Les Goldner)
74. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Accident Prevention (ernie)
75. 07:24 PM - Re: Insurance Rates! (Sabrina)
76. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Bird Strike! (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
77. 08:28 PM - Re: Baron vs Bird photos (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
78. 08:53 PM - Some new Products (Aerolitellc@aol.com)
79. 09:21 PM - Re: Primer for semi-exposed steel (Paul Mulwitz)
80. 09:48 PM - Re: Accident (MHerder)
81. 11:46 PM - Bending 40 thou (Jugle)
Message 1
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If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you -
even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were about
0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble.
Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads
unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards
3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch
formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape
change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.
I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think
it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the
fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut
into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the
other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was
shattered...
If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned
before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Message 2
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I replaced my canopy last year with one from Todd's Canopies that is ~50%
thicker. Not sure how much more protection if any it provides for a bird
strike. Todd claims it's quieter and I guess it is a little. You can find
his site at http://www.toddscanopies.com/ and ask about the thicker
canopy. It fit in my original frame with no problems.
Tim
601HDS
On 3/20/08, David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect
> you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all
> were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center
> of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine
> for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
>
> The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles
> tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they
> were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around
> the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near
> original gage.
>
> I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I
> think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched
> in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the
> prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the
> fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The
> nose gear pant was shattered...
>
> If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As
> mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an
> airplane.
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Airspeed Indicator Markings |
CHet
look at the front page of your plans. the speeds are there on the lower right.
Vne 160, etc.
-----Original Message-----
>From: CHETKRU@aol.com
>Sent: Mar 19, 2008 6:54 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Airspeed Indicator Markings
>
>Hi Folks,
>
>I am currently waiting for the FAA to come by and inspect my 601 XL for an
>airworthiness check, what I don't have at this time are the numbers for the
>airspeed indicator markings. I am flying with a Lyc. 0-235-N2C. Thanks in
>advance for any information on this subject.
>
>Chet K.
>N929RS
>Las Vegas, NV
>
>
>**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
>Home.
>(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair 5th bearing |
Thanks, I was unaware that the nitrided surface is in tension at all times. But
how about the side that's on the outside of a bend, that'll be under even more
tension. The inside will unload to neutral, but that outside will be even more
stressed.
Kevin Bonds wrote:
> Ashontz
>
> Regarding your comment about the "hard crust". That's not exactly how it works.
It's, actually, really cool how it works. As I understand it, the nitriding
process introduces nitrogen atoms to a certain depth increasing molecular density.
This has the benefit of putting the surface in tension at all times. So
that when the metal is bent the surface unloads towards neutral. This greatly
reduces the likelyhood of cracking, since cracking happens as a result of continuous
tension-to-compression cycles. Basically nitriding breaks this cycle.
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "ashontz"
>
> >
> > bly wouldn't need it. From what I've read, the nitriding is really only
> >
>
>
> > adding a 15/1000th hard skin so to speak over a still more flexible shaft.
Yeah,
> > it'll make it stronger, but it's still a crust over a softer center. The 5th
> > bearing makes more sense.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171189#171189
Message 5
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| Subject: | Painting XL nose strut |
Tim,
I primed my strut with SEM self-etching primer and topped it with Rust-oleum from
a rattle can. I just didn't paint the part that will be swept by the bearings.
I used a special grease on that. I think it was "Lubriplate", but I'm not
sure about that.
Jay in Dallas
"Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
>
>I'm going to want to hang my nose strut before too long and are looking for recommendations
as to a paint / finish. I'll be painting the plane later with a
catalyzed paint of some kind but I need to put something on the strut prior to
installation.
>
>>From checking the archives I found:
>Chrome - danger of embrittlement
>Powder Coat - too thick, peels, doesn't wear as well a you might expect.
>
>So what did the rest of you go with? I was considering rattle can enamel, perhaps
baking it at low heat in an oven.
>
>Tim
>
>--------
>______________
>CFII
>Champ L16A flying
>Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
>Working on fuselage
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171129#171129
>
>
Message 6
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IMO adding a strut brace to an existing design could be extremely dangerous
as the stru would create a load at a point not designed to take a load. E
ngineering is complicated, and a great way to concentrate loads and cause f
ailures is to add a strengthening element which focuses forces in a new loc
ation not designed for the forces.> From: graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au> To:
zenith-list@matronics.com> Subject: Zenith-List: LIGHT AIRCRAFT> Date: Thu
<graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>> > I have been watching from the side lines
the continuing to and fro about the > safety of the CH601.> I have a CH 70
1 but may consider building a 601 in future.> These are light air craft the
y don't have bullet proof glass. (bird strike > protection)> they don't hav
e armour plating around the cockpit area (hillbillies shooting > at you ove
r flying their crop protection)> When you hit the ground they break (and th
ey have no airbags for crash > protection)> They are not designed to crash
they are designed to fly.> If you fly within the specifications you should
be OK .> All those concerend should fit a G meter to check that you are not
> mishandling your aircraft.> If I build a ch601 for my own piece of mind
I would consider a strut brace > to trianglate wing.> But only if an answer
on the accidents indicated structual failure or are > inconclusive.> If an
y indication of concern with structure I am sure Zenith would respond > wit
h a fix.> I think the Australian investigators (Recreation Aviation Austral
ia) should > come up with some definitive results on the latest Accident. I
===========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120
08
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
As to the lubricant, the black nylon and the green nylon are of a different chemical
make up. I remember I was told not to use any grease with molybendum
OR lithium in it. Also, some spray lubricant's, like Corrosion X attack the
bungee cord if it were to drip down on it.
You would not think it would be such a problem. I ended up priming everything
lightly, then painting all but the contact area with RustOleum. Of course the
primer wore away just on the ride over to the airport on the trailer.
Light mineral oil with no detergents, very little, keeps the contact surfaces clear
of rust.
After painting, I added light mineral oil inside the tube and rolled it around
and upside down, etc. I then left it upside down on a towel and let most of the
oil drain out (of the two stop plate screw holes.) The inside has already
been oiled before being welded, so don't try pouring paint down the holes as some
have.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171197#171197
Message 8
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If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take
note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect
the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not at the point in my build that
I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.
My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased
in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith. And if there is one, how much stronger
is it than the original? This causes me great concern because I have
many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area. They constantly feed in the cornfield
behind my house - right next to the airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose strike
before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time. It really did damage to the
aircraft.
Any information is appreciated.
Larry Hursh
N601LL Reserved
CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive
David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you
- even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were
about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble.
Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads
unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards
3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch
formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape
change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.
I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think
it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the
fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut
into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the
other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was
shattered...
If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned
before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
Tim:
I took my nose strut, rudder pedals and throttle levers to a chrome shop and they
came out super nice. The price was reasonable too. Here are a few pictures:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Nosewheel.jpg
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Pedals.jpg
No more worries about scratching off the paint, etc.
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair
Finished & Flying
www.cooknwithgas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171205#171205
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
Just for the record, be sure when making your 45 to downwind on a gusty day
you don't try the bank and yank approach (60-70 degree hard bank maintaining
level flight) then level out abeam the numbers on downwind. You just might
find that you've exceeded 6 g's in your aircraft as you watch your wings
embrace your cabin!
Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
N601EL
Message 11
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Larry,
For anything other than transport category airplanes, canopies and windscreens
are there to keep out the wind and rain, not noise, not bullets, and certainly
not geese. Any canopy that will, without a doubt, withstand a goose strike would
probably weigh as much as the rest of the airframe. Even the airframe will
not withstand a goose strike without damage. No disrespect intended, but if
your local situation is that risky, you should not consider flying ANY airplane
there.
Jay in Dallas
Larry H <skyridersbn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take
note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect
the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not at the point in my build
that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.
My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased
in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith. And if there is one, how much
stronger is it than the original? This causes me great concern because I have
many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area. They constantly feed in the cornfield
behind my house - right next to the airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose strike
before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time. It really did damage to the
aircraft.
>
> Any information is appreciated.
> Larry Hursh
> N601LL Reserved
> CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive
>
>David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you
- even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were
about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the
bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads
unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
>
>The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended
towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch
formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape
change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.
>
>I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think
it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the
fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut
into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the
other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was
shattered...
>
>If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned
before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
Tim,
You probably should use something out of a rattle can. I sprayed black
because zinc chromate primer was worn off at the bearing slides.
It's a least-effort for the occasional refurb and it seems to hold as
well as anything.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> I'm going to want to hang my nose strut before too long and are looking for recommendations
as to a paint / finish. I'll be painting the plane later with
a catalyzed paint of some kind but I need to put something on the strut prior
to installation.
>
> >From checking the archives I found:
> Chrome - danger of embrittlement
> Powder Coat - too thick, peels, doesn't wear as well a you might expect.
>
> So what did the rest of you go with? I was considering rattle can enamel, perhaps
baking it at low heat in an oven.
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Working on fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171129#171129
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
I used Rust-oleum industrial primer and industrial paint both out of a rattle
can on all the steel parts. Those things started getting surface rust on them
before I took them out of the box.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171224#171224
Message 14
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Jay, thanks for bringing us back to the reality of the issue. Good thing
this isn't a Pietenpol list. Imagine their conversation about bird strike
protection!
Larry Winger
601XL/Corvair
Tustin, CA
> For anything other than transport category airplanes, canopies and
> windscreens are there to keep out the wind and rain, not noise, not bullets,
> and certainly not geese. Any canopy that will, without a doubt, withstand a
> goose strike would probably weigh as much as the rest of the airframe. Even
> the airframe will not withstand a goose strike without damage.
> Jay in Dallas
>
>
> Larry H <skyridersbn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause
> and take note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it
> could protect the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not at the point
> in my build that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this
> forum for my information. My question to everyone is, is there another
> canopy that can be purchased in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith. And if
> there is one, how much stronger is it than the original? This causes me
> great concern because I have many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area.
> They constantly feed in the cornfield behind my house - right next to the
> airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose strike before, but I was in a Cessna 172
> at the time. It really did damage to the aircraft.
> >
> > Any information is appreciated.
> > Larry Hursh
> > N601LL Reserved
> > CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive
> >
> >David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not
> protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on
> 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in
> the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment,
> it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
> >
> >The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles
> tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they
> were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around
> the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near
> original gage.
> >
> >I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s
> (I think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and
> pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through
> the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the
> fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The
> nose gear pant was shattered...
> >
> >If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As
> mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an
> airplane.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Downey
> > Harleysville (SE) PA
> > 100 HP Corvair
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair 5th bearing |
I should have mentioned I am not an expert on this subject (or any other for that
matter). I was just paraphrasing what I remember about a paper I read on the
subject. I tried to find that paper for you, but could not.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
>
> Thanks, I was unaware that the nitrided surface is in tension at all times. But
> how about the side that's on the outside of a bend, that'll be under even more
> tension. The inside will unload to neutral, but that outside will be even more
> stressed.
>
>
> Kevin Bonds wrote:
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: True Idenity |
Now you all understand why I titled this "True Identity".....
As I originally typed, I ve seen these people on other websites and its
obvious they are in a different ball game...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Southern Reflections
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: True Idenity
Great Letter..... Joe N101HD
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: True Idenity
Because we are on the subject of "True Identity", I had this one
gentleman directly email me, questioning me about "which side of the
fence I was on". Here is what he said to me about my posting and about
what I had said. He quoted my statement and then asked me where I stood
at on my statements. He wrote:
Hi Larry,
Didn't you write:
I for one have said it before, if my wife EVER read any of this
"GLOOM AND DOOM"
about aircraft failures, she would NEVER set foot in my Zodiac and
she would
HOUND ME until the ends of the Earth to STOP BUILDING THIS DEATH
TRAP......I
was HOPING we could change the subject matter also, but it seems
"we" feel the
NEED to beat it to death (literally) some more.......I too am very
well aware
of the risks involved and I promise I will do my level best to build
my aircraft
according to the print. I will fly it as I safely know how to do
and I will
NOT do any erratic maneuvers with it. I'm positive everyone on this
forumhttp://www.lpaero.com/
are going to be doing the same. Now with all that being said, I
will ask again....can
we change the subject matter and get on to something more
enlightening
and helpful, PLEASE?????
...now you ask:
My obvious question would be, what is the windshield made out of on
the Zenith
Aircraft's CH601XL?? Is there such a thing as an "upgrade" we can
buy to get
the very best protection for the money we've spent (or spending in
my case - I'm
working on the tail section now)??? If not, WHY not??
Don't you realize that comments like this lead to what you profess
to abhor? What side of the fence ya gonna sit on?
cheers jeff you could contact the makers of the canopy and find
out http://www.lpaero.com/
I had responded to his questions with my answers and I said this
back to him:
I am not on both sides of the fence when it comes to a bird strike.
That is extremely EVIDENT and not speculation. A fact - a bird CAN and
sometimes DO break windshields. The evidence is extremely clear about
it if you was to watch the video, see the broken windshield and the
carcass of the bird in the back seat. To SPECULATE what happened to the
601 that they say the wings collapsed, when the NTSB hasn't been able to
piece all the FACTS together, is purely speculation on our parts. I
would rather sit back, open my ears, shut my mouth and take a "wait and
see" attitude, about how this whole accident plays out with the cause.
To ASSUME otherwise, is as I said before, PURELY SPECULATION and can
(and usually does) cause totally UNNECESSARY ALARM, FEAR AND PANIC!!
Deal in only the facts - when you know what they are, THEN make a
logical, educated decision as to how to proceed. I firmly believe that
Zenith is on top of all these issues. If I didn't have faith in the
aircraft, I would NOT be building it.
Now, let me ask you, have I my made my point perfectly clear here or
not? (If not, I'll slow down some for you and let you catch
up.......OK?)
As far as what the current material the windshield is made of on the
Zodiac, I have to admit I do not know. Up until this bird coming
through the windshield on the Cessna, it never raised my concerns. I am
like everyone else, I ASSUME Zenith is providing the best material (all
materials) to keep us as safe as possible. Do I assume to much here?
Maybe. After physically SEEING the evidence of what this bird did to a
Cessna, DOES cause me to question it. I DO know how thick the Cessna
windshield is and I AM concerned that the windshield in the Zodiac WILL
or WILL NOT withstand a bird strike like this. I live by many, many
lakes here and we have an over abundance of Canadian Geese it seems. As
you know, they are NOT a small bird. I HAVE been in a bird strike in a
Cessna 172 once. We hit TWO geese. One struck the propeller (thank God
for small favors) and it splattered all over the windshield and leading
edges of both wings, making it extremely hard to see. The other goose,
hit the left leading edge of the wing, taking out a full bay between two
ribs (4 foot from the pilot's door). Luckily, the metal gave enough to
dent but not break away. We was able to return to the airport and put
the plane down without incident. It took close to 2 months for the
plane to be returned to service again. Its not something I would ever
want to go through again.
Larry Hursh
PS - Are you "Thomas Small" or "cheers jeff"? You seemed to be so
confused, you can't remember WHO you are...! Ha, talk about the pot
calling the kettle black, eh?? Have a really PEACHY DAY, will yah -
whomever you are!?
His response back to me was this:
Well, excuse me! I am truly, truly sorry not to understand that
your sense of entitlement allows you to have more than one correct
opinion. "Oh, stop the DOOM and GLOOM...if not, WHY not!"
Thank goodness for block sender.
Thomas Jeffrey Small
***************************************
I Must Apologize to All of You.....
I'm sorry if this is boring everyone to tears but I for one am
DAMNED TIRED of having people making accusations like this one, yet
wanting to attack without using one sense of common decency to LISTEN to
the answer that is given to them. If you ever ask me my opinion, I will
try to explain my actions as best I can but for God's sake, try to
understand it. It makes my ass TIRED of trying to speak intelligently
with a moronic person such as this one. I honestly feel his whole
agenda was to try to disrupt and abuse this forum. I'm not sure if
anyone else has received this sort of statements coming from Mr Thomas
Jeffrey Small or not. I for one will NOT say a word to anyone
personally, that will not make on an open forum such as this one. I'm
sorry for taking up this (more like wasted) space to justify my actions,
but I feel for the betterment of all on this forum, this hooligan needs
to be identified for his disruptive demeanor and unintelligent
conversations.......I promise to try to NEVER post anything like this
ever again.
Best Regards to all!! Happy building and flying!
Larry Hursh
Edwardsburg, MI (N601LL Reserved)
CH601XL building elevator now...
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 17
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please ignore.
Message 18
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Message 19
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Once again, due to not leaving well enough alone, I have some extra
parts for sale. Great deals for scratch builders. All parts are new
and unused. All prices + shipping (FedEx Ground).
2 - 40 lb gas spring struts 9416K12: $15
($10.27 each from McMaster-Carr.
Building a TD, which needs stronger)
2 - 6B9-3 rudder pedals, 1 left & 1 right \
2 - 6B9-2 stainless hinges, already curved : $45
for the pedal tube! /
($12.87 each for the hinges &
$18.20 each for the pedals,
which totals $62.14 from Zenith)
2 - 6B20-4 NACA vents: $10
($11.10 each from Zenith,
$6.25 each from Van's)
And if someone wants it all, $65 for everything.
Send an e-mail with name, address and a phone number (required for
shipping) and I will send back a Paypal invoice.
Thanks,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD, Corvair, building...
Message 20
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| Subject: | Baron vs Bird photos |
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Baron vs Bird photos |
Blackhawk v Crane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:IAF_UH-60_after_birds_strike_outside.jpg
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171252#171252
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
I'm not a 601 driver, but I would thing that the approach speed would we
below the maneuvering speed (Va). Below this speed the wing can not produce
enough lift to overstress the aircraft.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
> <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
>
> Just for the record, be sure when making your 45 to downwind on a gusty
> day you don't try the bank and yank approach (60-70 degree hard bank
> maintaining level flight) then level out abeam the numbers on downwind.
> You just might find that you've exceeded 6 g's in your aircraft as you
> watch your wings embrace your cabin!
>
> Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
> 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
> N601EL
>
>
>
Message 23
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All this talk of bird strikes reminds me of a story told to me by an old
(20000 hr.) ex. RAF pilot friend, who spent much of his time flying
Hercules (C130?).
Once, when he was based in Scotland, he had just taken off when a flock
of seagulls had the same idea. The noise was deafening and they took out
3 of his engines. He managed to get it back on the runway and the
engines had to be replaced.
The following morning he went to the hangar to find some poor soul
picking bits of seagull out of the intakes. The RAF insisted on all bird
strikes being reported with species and number. Apparently he was
counting the feet and dividing by 2 (the feet being the last bit to go
in).
He had pulled 13 from one engine alone.
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but it just shows what a few (fairly
small) birds can do to even a large aeroplane.
Dave Johnson
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canopy
If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to
pause and take note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see
how it could protect the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not
at the point in my build that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at
the mercy of this forum for my information. My question to everyone is,
is there another canopy that can be purchased in lieu of the one
supplied by Zenith. And if there is one, how much stronger is it than
the original? This causes me great concern because I have many LARGE
Canadian Geese here in my area. They constantly feed in the cornfield
behind my house - right next to the airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose
strike before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time. It really did
damage to the aircraft.
Any information is appreciated.
Larry Hursh
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair 5th bearing ... Nitriding |
Nitriding
Nitrogen is diffused into the metal matrix during nitriding.
This introduces compressive stresses in the area where the nitrogen is diffused.
The depth of this diffusion zone is generally referred to as case depth.
The compressive stresses oppose the bending stresses at the opposing end and
lower the resulting stresses.
Fatigue strength is the ability of a part to withstand bending stresses over a
number of load cycles.
Lowering bending stresses increases the number of load cycles that a part can withstand.
Remember that these load cycles are cumulative over the life of a part.
Nitriding can achieve only a limited increase of the number of survivable load
cycles if the loads are very high and if the part has already experienced a large
number of load cycles under heavy loads.
A fifth bearing will eliminate deflections of the crankshaft but it will not reduce
the bending force exerted by the connecting rod. So the bending stresses
will not be lowered. Hence the contribution of the fifth bearing towards increasing
the fatigue strength of a crankshaft remains to be seen. A crankshaft with
a larger cross section is a better solution.
In my opinion, a fifth bearing is a feel good solution if you are trying to increase
the fatigue strength.
Pramod Kotwal
Nitron, Inc.
I should have mentioned I am not an expert on this subject (or any other for that
matter). I was just paraphrasing what I remember about a paper I read on the
subject. I tried to find that paper for you, but could not.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "ashontz"
>
> Thanks, I was unaware that the nitrided surface is in tension at all times. But
> how about the side that's on the outside of a bend, that'll be under even more
> tension. The inside will unload to neutral, but that outside will be even more
> stressed.
>
>
> Kevin Bonds wrote:
>
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 25
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I don't want to start a whole controversy, but did I miss Chris Heintz's reaction
to the recent incidents?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171260#171260
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Bird Strike! |
Thanks Gig. I was talking with my wife about it and told her the whole story about
bird strikes. She wasn't amused to say the least, but DID understand my
concerns. She is thinking it is an excellent idea to try finding a stronger,
better windshield when the time comes.
Thanks again,
Larry H
Do Not Archive
---------------------------------
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Hysteria |
Tim, I have not commented on any of these gloom and doom threads, but I can assure
you that the XL if built correctly is a tough little bird. I have been into
a few situations that scared me wet and she held together. When I hear about
wing this and re design that, rib, bolt or whatever I know the fault was out
side the ZAC design and the correct materials and can be laid at the feet of the
pilot or some unforeseen force of nature that exceeds max. "You can't out fly
stupid". Keep building and so if you want to fly in my XL-3300 with dual sticks,
just let me know. My 2 cents, Best of luck, Bill of Georgia N505WP, 601XL
126 Hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry H <skyridersbn@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:29 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Hysteria
Well said Tim - my sentiments exactly!
?
Larry H
Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
While not commenting on the design of the XL I do want to make a comment on pilot
skills. I have been a pilot over thirty years and CFII for 23. I also used
to go to a lot of airshows as crew of a WWII B25. I met a lot of very experienced
and sometimes "famous" pilots, that have since killed themselves in airplanes.
What I have learned from all this and what I remind myself each time I fly is that
anyone can use poor judgement and anyone can make a mistake. Not enough fuel,
too short a runway, weather worse than forecast, etc. All these are traps
waiting for the unwary. Some pilots just don't know any better, while others know
better but think that their superior skills will carry them thru. Regardless
of your ratings or flight hours, when you start getting too comfortable in
an airplane the alarm bells should be going off.
I have no plans to quit building my XL. I intend to build it to the plans, fly
it within the design envelope and keep my eyes open for anything that might lead
to trouble. I'll also continue to follow the comments expressed on this list
but will put my faith in facts, not conjecture. Discussion is healthy and can
help lead to solutions, but so much of what I've read recently seems to have
little substance backing it up. I know it is hard to be patient but I think the
answers we're all waiting for will soon be forthcoming and that we should try
to take a calm and reasoned approach to the issue.
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT |
Graemecns, I'm not sure about another external brace, but if I was building my
XL again I might consider a forward wing bracket between the inboard side of the
fuel tanks and the side of the fuselage. I am building a RV-8a and just finished
mounting the wings. The Rv's have an overlapping forward attachment bracket
intended to help prevent wing twist and more support for the leading edge
of the wing for the added weight of full fuel tanks. A good idea that ZAC should
consider as a modification to design. The XL might benefit from this modification.
The XL wing is prevented from twisting by only one bolt in the very thin
metal of the rear spar.? If I were to consider such a modification I would
of course confer with the smart folks at ZAC for their opinion. Just a thought
from a XL builder and flyer. Best of luck and regards, Bill
do not archive??
-----Original Message-----
From: Graeme <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
Sent: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:54 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: LIGHT AIRCRAFT
?
I have been watching from the side lines the continuing to and fro about the safety
of the CH601.?
I have a CH 701 but may consider building a 601 in future.?
These are light air craft they don't have bullet proof glass. (bird strike protection)?
they don't have armour plating around the cockpit area (hillbillies shooting at
you over flying their crop protection)?
When you hit the ground they break (and they have no airbags for crash protection)?
They are not designed to crash they are designed to fly.?
If you fly within the specifications you should be OK .?
All those concerend should fit a G meter to check that you are not mishandling
your aircraft.?
If I build a ch601 for my own piece of mind I would consider a strut brace to trianglate
wing.?
But only if an answer on the accidents indicated structual failure or are inconclusive.?
If any indication of concern with structure I am sure Zenith would respond with
a fix.?
I think the Australian investigators (Recreation Aviation Australia) should come
up with some definitive results on the latest Accident. In time!!?
?
Graemecns?
?
?
?
?
?
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
This is not quite true - a rapid reversal of the controls can over-stress
the airframe. This is thought to have caused the crash of a PA28 near my
home. A large section of one wing broke off (about 1/3rd. I think)
You can read the full AAIB report at:-
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_025533.pdf
Dave Johnson
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
>
> I'm not a 601 driver, but I would thing that the approach speed would we
> below the maneuvering speed (Va). Below this speed the wing can not
> produce enough lift to overstress the aircraft.
> Gordon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:02 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
>
>
>> <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Just for the record, be sure when making your 45 to downwind on a gusty
>> day you don't try the bank and yank approach (60-70 degree hard bank
>> maintaining level flight) then level out abeam the numbers on downwind.
>> You just might find that you've exceeded 6 g's in your aircraft as you
>> watch your wings embrace your cabin!
>>
>> Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
>> 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
>> N601EL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Bird Strike! |
The point of that picture was to show that you probably aren't going to find a
stronger, better windshield when the time comes.
Any improvement would be incremental. The windshields on any light plane (and even
military utility helicopters designed to fly low and medium fast) just ain't
up to a large bird strike.
Now that I've written all this I realize that I don't know if you are replying
to the info on Todd's Canopies or the bird vs Blackhawk photo.
Either way Build, Fly, Enjoy.
And quit talking to your wife about flying. Especially the cost. :)
skyridersbn wrote:
> Thanks Gig. I was talking with my wife about it and told her the whole story
about bird strikes. She wasn't amused to say the least, but DID understand my
concerns. She is thinking it is an excellent idea to try finding a stronger,
better windshield when the time comes.
>
> Thanks again,
> Larry H
>
> Do Not Archive
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171270#171270
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
Amazing. I owned a Cherokee and "thought" is was built like a tank.. Guess
not.
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
> <david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
>
> This is not quite true - a rapid reversal of the controls can over-stress
> the airframe. This is thought to have caused the crash of a PA28 near my
> home. A large section of one wing broke off (about 1/3rd. I think)
>
> You can read the full AAIB report at:-
>
> http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_025533.pdf
>
> Dave Johnson
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
>
>
>>
>> I'm not a 601 driver, but I would thing that the approach speed would we
>> below the maneuvering speed (Va). Below this speed the wing can not
>> produce enough lift to overstress the aircraft.
>> Gordon
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
>>
>>
>>> <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>> Just for the record, be sure when making your 45 to downwind on a gusty
>>> day you don't try the bank and yank approach (60-70 degree hard bank
>>> maintaining level flight) then level out abeam the numbers on downwind.
>>> You just might find that you've exceeded 6 g's in your aircraft as you
>>> watch your wings embrace your cabin!
>>>
>>> Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
>>> 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
>>> N601EL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Annoying Rotax 912ULS engine vibration |
Roger,
The vibration problem was not due to prop balance. It was a combination of
slightly loose bolts that mount into the engine and a slightly off carb
sync. The mechanic told me that the old style Zenith engine mounts will
loosen up because the engine isn't support right. Unless you add mounts on
top of the engine these bolts need serious attention. He suggested changing
the four 10mm bolts to studs and using lock washers, which he said won't
loosen.
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:51 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Annoying Rotax 912ULS engine vibration
>
>
> static and dynamic balance absolutely has to be ruled out.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170087#170087
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT |
Has any one installed fuel tanks aft of the main spar that are larger than
the baggage comp. provided by Zenith? Did you add braces under the tank. ect
Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 3/20/2008 12:58:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
japhillipsga@aol.com writes:
Graemecns, I'm not sure about another external brace, but if I was building
my XL again I might consider a forward wing bracket between the inboard side
of the fuel tanks and the side of the fuselage. I am building a RV-8a and
just finished mounting the wings. The Rv's have an overlapping forward
attachment bracket intended to help prevent wing twist and more support for the
leading edge of the wing for the added weight of full fuel tanks. A good idea
that
ZAC should consider as a modification to design. The XL might benefit from
this modification. The XL wing is prevented from twisting by only one bolt in
the very thin metal of the rear spar. If I were to consider such a
modification I would of course confer with the smart folks at ZAC for their opinion.
Just a thought from a XL builder and flyer. Best of luck and regards, Bill
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Graeme <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
Sent: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:54 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: LIGHT AIRCRAFT
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graeme" <_graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au_
(mailto:graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au) >
I have been watching from the side lines the continuing to and fro about the
safety of the CH601.
I have a CH 701 but may consider building a 601 in future.
These are light air craft they don't have bullet proof glass. (bird strike
protection)
they don't have armour plating around the cockpit area (hillbillies shooting
at you over flying their crop protection)
When you hit the ground they break (and they have no airbags for crash
protection)
They are not designed to crash they are designed to fly.
If you fly within the specifications you should be OK .
All those concerend should fit a G meter to check that you are not
mishandling your aircraft.
If I build a ch601 for my own piece of mind I would consider a strut brace
to trianglate wing.
But only if an answer on the accidents indicated structual failure or are
inconclusive.
If any indication of concern with structure I am sure Zenith would respond
with a fix.
I think the Australian investigators (Recreation Aviation Australia) should
come up with some definitive results on the latest Accident. In time!!
Graemecns
____________________________________
Planning your summer road trip? Check out _AOL Travel Guides_
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000015) .
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
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Message 34
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People, a windshield is a WIND shield. You want bird-proof, you wind up
with 3/4" thick polycarbonate, surrounded by a massive metal frame. If
nobody's looking, go steal a windshield and canopy off a Warthog, and
build a plane to lift it. But don't expect any GA plane to ward off
anything bigger than bumblebees.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H<mailto:skyridersbn@yahoo.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canopy
If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to
pause and take note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see
how it could protect the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not
at the point in my build that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at
the mercy of this forum for my information. My question to everyone is,
is there another canopy that can be purchased in lieu of the one
supplied by Zenith. And if there is one, how much stronger is it than
the original? This causes me great concern because I have many LARGE
Canadian Geese here in my area. They constantly feed in the cornfield
behind my house - right next to the airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose
strike before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time. It really did
damage to the aircraft.
Any information is appreciated.
Larry Hursh
N601LL Reserved
CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive
David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not
protect you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen
on 601XLs all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat
thinner in the center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual
spherical segment, it is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to
destabilize the form.
The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna
singles tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges.
Since they were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been
thinner around the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field
was probably near original gage.
I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late
70s (I think it was a swallow,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
Thanks,
Very interesting.
It does they state " the aircraft was flying at or just below VA of 118kt",
Looks like Va, is more of a guideline than a grantee in some cases.
The recommedation.....
training syllabus for private pilot should be reviewed...
e.
do not archive
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Dave Johnson <
david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
>
> This is not quite true - a rapid reversal of the controls can over-stress
> the airframe. This is thought to have caused the crash of a PA28 near my
> home. A large section of one wing broke off (about 1/3rd. I think)
>
> You can read the full AAIB report at:-
>
> http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_025533.pdf
>
> Dave Johnson
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
>
>
> >
> > I'm not a 601 driver, but I would thing that the approach speed would we
> > below the maneuvering speed (Va). Below this speed the wing can not
> > produce enough lift to overstress the aircraft.
> > Gordon
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:02 AM
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
> >
> >
> >> <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
> >>
> >> Just for the record, be sure when making your 45 to downwind on a gusty
> >> day you don't try the bank and yank approach (60-70 degree hard bank
> >> maintaining level flight) then level out abeam the numbers on downwind.
> >> You just might find that you've exceeded 6 g's in your aircraft as you
> >> watch your wings embrace your cabin!
> >>
> >> Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
> >> 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
> >> N601EL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 36
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If someone has a real concern about surviving a bird strike in their 601, I
would think that the best investment would be a helmet with a face shield.
Something like the ones dirt bikers wear. Military pilots wear helmets to
increase survivability. It would work for civilians just as well. I agree
with the other posts that any bird-strike-resistant canopy would be too
heavy. I would think that the combination of a good dirt bike helmet plus a
supportive head rest might give you a fighting chance to survive the impact
with an uninvited feathered guest, all for a couple pounds and a hundred
bucks or so.
Terry
At 03:31 AM 3/20/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect
>you - even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs
>all were about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the
>center of the bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it
>is fine for airloads unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
>
>The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles
>tended towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they
>were stretch formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around
>the wing root shape change areas but the viewing field was probably near
>original gage.
>
>I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I
>think it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and
>pinched in the fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came
>through the prop, got cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and
>cracked the fiberglass and the other was deflected down to the nose gear
>wheel pant. The nose gear pant was shattered...
>
>If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As
>mentioned before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.
>
>
>Dave Downey
>Harleysville (SE) PA
>100 HP Corvair
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 37
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I can tell you haven't been in a bird strike have you? If you ever have, you
would want the BEST windshield money can buy (and NOT just ..090 plexiglass either)......It's
not to ward off only birds per-say but to at least afford you
as much protection as possible from anything bad coming your way. That's only
common sense, correct? Once you have been through it, it DOES leave a lasting
impression on you.....scary part was, we never saw the geese coming. They
came from our left wing and passing right in front of us. We COULDN'T avoid them....we
was at NINE THOUSAND FEET!!
LH
paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
People, a windshield is a WIND shield. You want bird-proof, you wind
up with 3/4" thick polycarbonate, surrounded by a massive metal frame. If nobody's
looking, go steal a windshield and canopy off a Warthog, and build a plane
to lift it. But don't expect any GA plane to ward off anything bigger than
bumblebees.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canopy
If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take
note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect
the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not at the point in my build
that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.
My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased
in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith. And if there is one, how much
stronger is it than the original? This causes me great concern because I have
many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area. They constantly feed in the cornfield
behind my house - right next to the airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose strike
before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time. It really did damage to
the aircraft.
Any information is appreciated.
Larry Hursh
N601LL Reserved
CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive
David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you
- even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were
about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble.
Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads
unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended towards
3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch
formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape
change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.
I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think
it was a swallow,
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
---------------------------------
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Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Accident Prevention |
Lets slow down here and take a breath. First, these bank angles at pattern
altitude would be seriously bad judgment. Second, If the pilot's wife were on
board, he might get slapped real hard. What we do know is that an aircraft with
the wing and power loading of a CH601XL would barely be able maintain altitude
beyond 60 degrees of bank. A bank angle of 40 Deg = 1.3 G, 60 Deg = 2 G, 70
Deg = about 3.2.
http://pilotsweb.com/principle/load.htm We always slow down in the pattern,
do we not?
The more likely scenario would be that a greenhorn would let the ball slip
out, stall and not recognize the spin entry. Few pilots have training in spins
any more. Even CFI candidates don't have to demonstrate them anymore. A log
book entry will do. BTW, some bank angles of more that 60 degrees can be done one
handed while pouring a drink with the other hand. Watch this.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2Uc9XvmjY Slightly more than 1 G. Bob Hoover has always been my
hero.
Bob Dingley
XL/Lyc Do not archive
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
the video on AOL Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: NASON Oil Presssure Switch |
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
A 6G coordinated turn at a constant altitude would require slightly
more than 80 Degrees of bank. It takes 76 degrees of bank to exceed
the flight load limit of 4Gs.
>
> >
>
> Just for the record, be sure when making your 45 to downwind on a
> gusty day you don't try the bank and yank approach (60-70 degree
> hard bank maintaining level flight) then level out abeam the numbers
> on downwind. You just might find that you've exceeded 6 g's in your
> aircraft as you watch your wings embrace your cabin!
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
Scott
You possibly should be worried about chroming your nose strut
as I understand this causes hydrogen embrittlement and it could be prone to
cracking. Their should be some information in the archives.
I will ask Ray what he used.
Ray Lasniers CH601HD 190 hrs he has 701 kit on order Clive
----- Original Message -----
From: "cookwithgas" <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Painting XL nose strut
>
> Tim:
>
> I took my nose strut, rudder pedals and throttle levers to a chrome shop
> and they came out super nice. The price was reasonable too. Here are a
> few pictures:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Nosewheel.jpg
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_19_05_Pedals.jpg
>
> No more worries about scratching off the paint, etc.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL/Corvair
> Finished & Flying
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171205#171205
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
The published Va for most aircraft is only valid at the aircraft's
gross weight. You can exceed the airplane's flight load limit at lower
weights at the published Va without stalling the airplane. At the
lower weight, you probably won't over-stress the wing root attachment
but you may over-stress other parts of the structure. Va should be
decreased for weights less than gross weight.
On Mar 20, 2008, at 1:55 PM, ernie wrote:
> Thanks,
> Very interesting.
>
> It does they state " the aircraft was flying at or just below VA of
> 118kt",
>
>
> Looks like Va, is more of a guideline than a grantee in some cases.
>
> The recommedation.....
>
> training syllabus for private pilot should be
> reviewed...
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 43
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|
Yeah, I hear you Jay and I do understand what you are saying. I built my home
here 3 years ago BECAUSE there is an existing airstrip (2650' long) sod strip
that other pilots use also. There are 4 other planes and 2 power parachutes here
and believe it or not, NO ONE here has ever hit a goose - yet. If anyone
would hit one, it would be MY luck. I told my wife the truth that ANY flight
is dangerous, but so is driving a car. She agreed. So I will keep this all in
the back of my mind when the time comes to put on the windshield. I think if
I was to be able to find something stronger, the plane wouldn't lift off the
ground because of the extra weight! (bullet proof about 4 inches thick!) LOL
Larry H
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
Larry,
For anything other than transport category airplanes, canopies and windscreens
are there to keep out the wind and rain, not noise, not bullets, and certainly
not geese. Any canopy that will, without a doubt, withstand a goose strike would
probably weigh as much as the rest of the airframe. Even the airframe will
not withstand a goose strike without damage. No disrespect intended, but if your
local situation is that risky, you should not consider flying ANY airplane
there.
Jay in Dallas
Larry H wrote:
>If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take
note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect
the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not at the point in my build that
I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.
My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased
in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith. And if there is one, how much stronger
is it than the original? This causes me great concern because I have many
LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area. They constantly feed in the cornfield behind
my house - right next to the airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose strike before,
but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time. It really did damage to the aircraft.
>
> Any information is appreciated.
> Larry Hursh
> N601LL Reserved
> CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive
>
>David Downey
wrote:
> If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you
- even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were
about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the bubble.
Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads
unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
>
>The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended
towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch
formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape
change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.
>
>I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think
it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the
fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got cut
into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and the
other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was
shattered...
>
>If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned
before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
---------------------------------
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Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
Hi gang,
I recently had all of my steel parts powdercoated at a local shop that specializes
in small jobs. They do a lot of motorcycle, car and some aircraft parts.
I'm very pleased with the results as the coating is more durable and consistent
than I could have achieved on my own. I did all internal parts in flat black
and all external parts in metallic silver since I'm going to polish my plane.
The finish isn't any thicker than spray paint, and possibly less think since
it's more uniformly applied. Also, this company did the proper cleaning and pre-treating
too. Cost was only $160 since I used two colors and would have only
been $80 if one color. Seemed like a bargain to me.
I am interested in finding out how to best lubricate the gear and rudder pedal
bearings. I'd rather not have something oily that will attract dirt. Perhaps
some graphite or something.
Anyway, if any of you are near the Twin Cities, here is the shop I used. http://www.powdercoatingtech.com (The site is weak but has the address and phone number.)
PS. remember to mask the threaded areas!!
--------
601 XL kit N596SW reserved
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171330#171330
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
Maybe this is the real problem. The 'in the pattern' accidents were the one's that
disturbed me the most.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171331#171331
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT |
As long as that rear bolt is in there it should be fine. My concern would lie more
with the torsional strength of the wing itself all along it's span. Even so,
a RV style brace might be good. I think extra ribs would be better to ensure
torsional strength of the wing along it's span.
japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote:
> Graemecns, I'm not sure about another external brace, but if I was building my
XL again I might consider a forward wing bracket between the inboard side of
the fuel tanks and the side of the fuselage. I am building a RV-8a and just finished
mounting the wings. The Rv's have an overlapping forward attachment bracket
intended to help prevent wing twist and more support for the leading edge
of the wing for the added weight of full fuel tanks. A good idea that ZAC should
consider as a modification to design. The XL might benefit from this modification.
The XL wing is prevented from twisting by only one bolt in the very
thin metal of the rear spar. If I were to consider such a modification I would
of course confer with the smart folks at ZAC for their opinion. Just a thought
from a XL builder and flyer. Best of luck and regards, Bill
> do not archive
>
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171337#171337
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
The top front gear tube bearing from the factory (6B8-6) is made of Nyloil
(the plans call it "Nyoil"). The bottom V block 6G2-1 is also called out as
"Nyoil" but all the ones I have ever seen look like plain gray Nylon
(although it could be the "Gray NYLOIL-MDX " mentioned in the link below).
Anyway Nyloil is impregnated with lubricant so it isn't clear that it needs
additional lubrication:
http://www.alro.com/DIVPlastics/plastic_product_nyloil.htm
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of swater6
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 3:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Painting XL nose strut
Hi gang,
I recently had all of my steel parts powdercoated at a local shop that
specializes in small jobs. They do a lot of motorcycle, car and some
aircraft parts.
I'm very pleased with the results as the coating is more durable and
consistent than I could have achieved on my own. I did all internal parts
in flat black and all external parts in metallic silver since I'm going to
polish my plane. The finish isn't any thicker than spray paint, and
possibly less think since it's more uniformly applied. Also, this company
did the proper cleaning and pre-treating too. Cost was only $160 since I
used two colors and would have only been $80 if one color. Seemed like a
bargain to me.
I am interested in finding out how to best lubricate the gear and rudder
pedal bearings. I'd rather not have something oily that will attract dirt.
Perhaps some graphite or something.
Anyway, if any of you are near the Twin Cities, here is the shop I used.
http://www.powdercoatingtech.com (The site is weak but has the address and
phone number.)
PS. remember to mask the threaded areas!!
--------
601 XL kit N596SW reserved
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171330#171330
Message 48
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| Subject: | new ring mount old cowl |
has anybody put hte new 912 ring mount on there 701 with the old cowl?
what did you do for radiator mount and oil cooler mount?
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT |
There are a whole bunch of ways to overstress an airframe, regardless of the rated
loads. I could go out tomorrow, fly at Va and find a way to rip my wings off.
People have managed to tear the wings off of 12G rated airframes. I could
go out and push the limits of my airframe, be it by doing aerobatics, going too
fast through turbulence, yanking and banking, or any of 100 stupid pilot tricks.
Even a "1G roll" done incorrectly could tear the wings off or cause permanent
damage to the airframe. Maybe 1 encounter with severe turbulence or a storm
exceeds the limits. Maybe 1 steep turn that goes over a little too far. Once
that damage is done, even with 1 stupid pilot trick, all structural calculations
go out the window. Combine that with an incorrectly torqued bolt or a line
of rivets incorrectly set or with inadequate edge distances in just the wrong
place, and the airplane is flying on borrowed time. Something as seemingly benign
as a steep turn or dropping the flaps on the next flight could result in
catastrophic failure. The fact that it occurs so rarely is amazing, and a testament
to the designers and builders of experimental aircraft, as well as to pilots
in general. Lay people are clueless to the fact that poor piloting technique
can easily rip an airplane apart, but as pilots we really shouldn't be. I'm
not saying that this relates to all of the accidents, but we really shouldn't
be surprised that the 601xl controls have enough authority to rip the wings
off, or that a new sport pilot entering IMC is going to end 1 of 2 ways, spiraling
into the ground or ripping the plane apart trying to bring it under control.
As my 13 y/o daughter would say, "Duh!!"
Steve
N621J
CH640
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171349#171349
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Accident Prevention |
I saw Bob Hoover fly when I lived in Fla back in the 80's.. That video y
ou gave a link to was a testimony to how damn good Bob Hoover really is.
If you look up the word smooth in the dictionary there will be a color
picture of him under the defination...
Ben.
do not archive
t get slapped real hard. What we do know is that an aircraft with the wi
ng and power loading of a CH601XL would barely be able maintain altitude
beyond 60 degrees of bank. A bank angle of 40 Deg = 1.3 G, 60 Deg =
2 G, 70 Deg = about 3.2.
http://pilotsweb.com/principle/load.htm We always slow down in the patte
rn, do we not?
The more likely scenario would be that a greenhorn would let the ball sl
ip out, stall and not recognize the spin entry. Few pilots have training
in spins any more. Even CFI candidates don't have to demonstrate them a
nymore. A log book entry will do. BTW, some bank angles of more that 60
degrees can be done one handed while pouring a drink with the other hand
. Watch this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2Uc9XvmjY Slightly more th
an 1 G. Bob Hoover has always been my hero.
Bob Dingley
XL/Lyc Do not archive
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=
aolhom00030000000001)
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
===
_____________________________________________________________
Put your loved ones in good hands with quality senior assisted living. C
lick now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/REAK6aBeoW6Ez9cr5H38ffrAl
zYoTEkGRmMHsq4PRD5sbpbmXUO8ae/
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
I've been flying 33 years and doubt if I've ever pulled much more than 3 g's in
any maneuvers, including steep turns. This is true even with all the students
I've flown with. If it was routine to pull that many g's we'd have broken airplanes
all over the place.
Tim
do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171352#171352
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[quote="zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca"]
Owners should take note that the CH601XL has relatively light pitch control forces
and that it is possible to exceed the positive (+6) and the negative (-3)
ultimate load factors if forcing the controls in a very rough or sudden manner.
[/quote]
So what's the XL's negative ultimate load: 3g or 6g (as per official web page info)?
Sorry, doesn't consider Heintz's letter adequate. Conclusion "do not push the stick
too fast" and info that "complete structural test were done" which
in fact means "only not destructive static load tests were done" doesn't sound
solid enough.
And for those C.Heinz is a Got and ingenious engineer for, please read following:
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926
It is old history - C.H factualy stoled Colomban's CriCri design, made some dangerous
modifications and started to produce 'Criket' kits. Changes were denided
by M.Colomban and leds to consequence of aileron flutter incidents which later
cost lifes. C.Heintz doesn't provided builders/pilots with info about these
incidents. One of builders - Jim Harper experienced inflight aileron flutter
that time not fatal and asked C.H. for the reason. C.H., provided wrong solution
(remove a play from the aileron control system) but the reason was soft steel
laison tube controlling flaperons - modification made by C.H.
Jim Harper was killed during next flight - aileron flutter... sad, very sad...
Isn't this similar? Unpopular true can put his company down...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171358#171358
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
Yep
I assumed this was calc , they did finite analyis on the wingwhy would
the miss that
Do not archive
On 3/20/08, Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> The published Va for most aircraft is only valid at the aircraft's
> gross weight. You can exceed the airplane's flight load limit at lower
> weights at the published Va without stalling the airplane. At the
> lower weight, you probably won't over-stress the wing root attachment
> but you may over-stress other parts of the structure. Va should be
> decreased for weights less than gross weight.
>
> On Mar 20, 2008, at 1:55 PM, ernie wrote:
>
> > Thanks,
> > Very interesting.
> >
> > It does they state " the aircraft was flying at or just below VA of
> > 118kt",
> >
> >
> > Looks like Va, is more of a guideline than a grantee in some cases.
> >
> > The recommedation.....
> >
> > training syllabus for private pilot should be
> > reviewed...
> >
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
>
>
Message 54
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Is this cowl made out of aluminum, it looks like it to me? I thought that they
were fiberglass. I am interested in AL cowl as I'm polishing.
http://www.ch701.com/webmaster/Jon/finishing/Jon024.jpg
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171361#171361
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
I'd recommend using a white or light gray for internal parts so you can
easily see any cracks during an annual inspection.
JT
"I recently had all of my steel parts powdercoated....
I did all internal parts in flat black..."
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paint...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171368#171368
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| Subject: | Re: Bird Strike! |
I'm interested in your progress on this. Keep me informed please.
[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]I do not have a design for a windshield canopy. I
am going to build one but my aircraft has several changes to it so my parts
will not fix any other aircraft. I will extend the turtleback so it will come
up to the gull doors. The top will have about four inch of sheet metal between
the doors. The windshield will start at the instrumental panel. Using 3/4"
tubes to support the windshield and turtleback. Still not happy with the door
stiffness. so may change then again. I used 1/2 by 3/4" angles to form the
doors last time. Jerry of GA
In a message dated 3/19/2008 2:47:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
>
> Do you have a design for a solid roof? I'm interested in using a windshield
and doors myself instead of the bubble.
>
> [quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]YES, if a bubble canopy it broken in the front
I believe the wind will rip? the remaining parts off. Jerry of GA
>
> In a message dated 3/19/2008 12:31:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
> >
> > You mean as opposed to a bubble canopy?
> >
> >
> > jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Looking at the aircraft makes me a believer of a windshield. The
right side of his windshield is gone. I would think that the fact that the
top of the wind shield is attached to the wing and the side is attached
to the fuse. saved the pilots life. The pilot is lucky because had hit in
front of ? him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry of GA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ?
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> > CH601XL - ? Corvair
> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170965#170965
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001).
>
>
> > [b]
> >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171012#171012
>
>
>
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001).
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171370#171370
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Hi Kevin,
Boy I haven't seen that picture in a long time! That is a standard Zenith
fiberglass cowl covered by an application of $3 aluminum color paint from
the auto store.... I think the photo makes it look a little better than it
is... but it did look pretty good all things considered!
Jon
(701 almost done, on hold... building a 601
http://www.flywithgus.com/joncroke.html )
----- Original Message -----
From: "kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:08 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Cowl
>
> Is this cowl made out of aluminum, it looks like it to me? I thought that
> they were fiberglass. I am interested in AL cowl as I'm polishing.
>
> http://www.ch701.com/webmaster/Jon/finishing/Jon024.jpg
>
>
>
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT |
Surviving and living are not at all the same. Putting around making
gentle turns may extend your life but it is not living. Yanking and
banking are the important fun part of flying, much more so than
sitting still in the left seat, afraid to twitch. I love to fly.
One of my old friends, flying a Tailwind, can't go from point to point
without tossing in a roll ever so often. One night, in pitch black,
we did roll after roll as we cork screwed along, only the lights on
the ground to pronounce right side up and our laughter filling the
cabin. That was living! I would not have a plane that cannot
handle a little fun. Jerry age 67 (701 scratch )
On Mar 20, 2008, at 7:17 PM, steveadams wrote:
> >
>
> There are a whole bunch of ways to overstress an airframe,
> regardless of the rated loads. I could go out tomorrow, fly at Va
> and find a way to rip my wings off. People have managed to tear the
> wings off of 12G rated airframes. I could go out and push the limits
> of my airframe, be it by doing aerobatics, going too fast through
> turbulence, yanking and banking, or any of 100 stupid pilot tricks.
> Even a "1G roll" done incorrectly could tear the wings off or cause
> permanent damage to the airframe. Maybe 1 encounter with severe
> turbulence or a storm exceeds the limits. Maybe 1 steep turn that
> goes over a little too far. Once that damage is done, even with 1
> stupid pilot trick, all structural calculations go out the window.
> Combine that with an incorrectly torqued bolt or a line of rivets
> incorrectly set or with inadequate edge distances in just the wrong
> place, and the airplane is flying on borrowed time. Something as
> seemingly benign as a steep turn or dropping the flaps on the n!
> ext flight could result in catastrophic failure. The fact that it
> occurs so rarely is amazing, and a testament to the designers and
> builders of experimental aircraft, as well as to pilots in general.
> Lay people are clueless to the fact that poor piloting technique can
> easily rip an airplane apart, but as pilots we really shouldn't be.
> I'm not saying that this relates to all of the accidents, but we
> really shouldn't be surprised that the 601xl controls have enough
> authority to rip the wings off, or that a new sport pilot entering
> IMC is going to end 1 of 2 ways, spiraling into the ground or
> ripping the plane apart trying to bring it under control. As my 13 y/
> o daughter would say, "Duh!!"
>
> Steve
> N621J
> CH640
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171349#171349
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
Craig,
Thanks for the info on Nyloil. That's good to know.
And Av8or, you're right. I knew that's why the motor mounts should be white but
didn't really consider that for the other parts for some reason. Good advice.
Scott
--------
601 XL kit N596SW reserved
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171375#171375
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It does look pretty good in the pic. Looking at it it makes me think that I could
cut the front off and make a nose bowl then fabricate the rest out of Al. I
really like the Cub like cowl cheeks on the the flywithgus 701 site. This would
give me just a little fiberglass to paint...swooshes and such fading into raw
AL... I feel a picture forming... :D
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171376#171376
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| Subject: | Re: LIGHT AIRCRAFT |
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 08:39:49PM -0400, Jerry Hey wrote:
> Surviving and living are not at all the same. Putting around making
> gentle turns may extend your life but it is not living. Yanking and
> banking are the important fun part of flying, much more so than
> sitting still in the left seat, afraid to twitch. I love to fly.
> One of my old friends, flying a Tailwind, can't go from point to point
> without tossing in a roll ever so often. One night, in pitch black,
> we did roll after roll as we cork screwed along, only the lights on
> the ground to pronounce right side up and our laughter filling the
> cabin. That was living! I would not have a plane that cannot
> handle a little fun. Jerry age 67 (701 scratch )
Different strokes for different folks. Your kind of flying is not for me: I
don't much enjoy going along with an airsickness bag to my mouth the whole
time. My kind of flying is getting from point A to point B as quickly,
smoothly, and safely as possible.
That's why there are different kinds of airplanes. Enjoy your 701; it sounds
like just what you're looking for.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 63
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After reading the thread referenced I don't see any concrete evidence to
support wrongdoing on the part of Chris Heinz, only one individual making
unsupported accusations. The writing style and dialect seem very similar to
the poster making the accusations here. Are you that individual? If there is
proof then it is of interest. If it is just an individual with a personal
vendetta then please don't waste our time. Dan.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of petrdworak
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident
[quote="zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca"]
Owners should take note that the CH601XL has relatively light pitch control
forces and that it is possible to exceed the positive (+6) and the negative
(-3) ultimate load factors if forcing the controls in a very rough or sudden
manner. [/quote]
So what's the XL's negative ultimate load: 3g or 6g (as per official web
page info)?
Sorry, doesn't consider Heintz's letter adequate. Conclusion "do not push
the stick too fast" and info that "complete structural test were done" which
in fact means "only not destructive static load tests were done" doesn't
sound solid enough.
And for those C.Heinz is a Got and ingenious engineer for, please read
following:
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926
It is old history - C.H factualy stoled Colomban's CriCri design, made some
dangerous modifications and started to produce 'Criket' kits. Changes were
denided by M.Colomban and leds to consequence of aileron flutter incidents
which later cost lifes. C.Heintz doesn't provided builders/pilots with info
about these incidents. One of builders - Jim Harper experienced inflight
aileron flutter that time not fatal and asked C.H. for the reason. C.H.,
provided wrong solution (remove a play from the aileron control system) but
the reason was soft steel laison tube controlling flaperons - modification
made by C.H.
Jim Harper was killed during next flight - aileron flutter... sad, very
sad...
Isn't this similar? Unpopular true can put his company down...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171358#171358
--
Checked by AVG.
8:10 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
The hydrogen embrittlement resulting from chrome plating a 4130 structure can,
I believe I remember, be removed by baking the chromed structure at something
like 400 or 450F for 4 hours...
I am sure that someone on here can give you the exact recipe - if not maybe I can
ask the metals guys at work.
Tim,
You probably should use something out of a rattle can. I sprayed black
because zinc chromate primer was worn off at the bearing slides.
It's a least-effort for the occasional refurb and it seems to hold as
well as anything.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> I'm going to want to hang my nose strut before too long and are looking for recommendations
as to a paint / finish. I'll be painting the plane later with
a catalyzed paint of some kind but I need to put something on the strut prior
to installation.
>
> >From checking the archives I found:
> Chrome - danger of embrittlement
> Powder Coat - too thick, peels, doesn't wear as well a you might expect.
>
> So what did the rest of you go with? I was considering rattle can enamel, perhaps
baking it at low heat in an oven.
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Working on fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171129#171129
>
>
>
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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do not archive
....and since most animals do not detect danger that approaches faster than they
can travel, the birds probably do not see the Piet as a threat...
Larry Winger <larrywinger@gmail.com> wrote: Jay, thanks for bringing us back to
the reality of the issue. Good thing this isn't a Pietenpol list. Imagine their
conversation about bird strike protection!
Larry Winger
601XL/Corvair
Tustin, CA
For anything other than transport category airplanes, canopies and windscreens
are there to keep out the wind and rain, not noise, not bullets, and certainly
not geese. Any canopy that will, without a doubt, withstand a goose strike would
probably weigh as much as the rest of the airframe. Even the airframe will
not withstand a goose strike without damage.
Jay in Dallas
Larry H <skyridersbn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>If the canopy is only .090 thick on the Zodiac, that causes me to pause and take
note of it. I agree, being only this thick, I can't see how it could protect
the occupants, other than from the wind. I'm not at the point in my build
that I need (or have) canopy yet, so I am at the mercy of this forum for my information.
My question to everyone is, is there another canopy that can be purchased
in lieu of the one supplied by Zenith. And if there is one, how much
stronger is it than the original? This causes me great concern because I have
many LARGE Canadian Geese here in my area. They constantly feed in the cornfield
behind my house - right next to the airstrip. I HAVE been in a goose strike
before, but I was in a Cessna 172 at the time. It really did damage to the
aircraft.
>
> Any information is appreciated.
> Larry Hursh
> N601LL Reserved
> CH601XL Waiting on my wing kit to arrive
>
>David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If you hit anything larger than a hummingbird the canopy will not protect you
- even if only flying at 100 mph. The canopies I have seen on 601XLs all were
about 0.090" at the edge - that means somewhat thinner in the center of the
bubble. Since the canopy is a virtual spherical segment, it is fine for airloads
unless a crack is present to destabilize the form.
>
>The canopies I replaced and worked on many moons ago in Cessna singles tended
towards 3/16-1/4 of an inch in thickness at the edges. Since they were stretch
formed I would guess that they might have been thinner around the wing root shape
change areas but the viewing field was probably near original gage.
>
>I hit a swallow on final into an airport in Kansas back in the late 70s (I think
it was a swallow, the feathers that remained in the inlet and pinched in the
fairing looked like one!) in a Cherokee 235. It came through the prop, got
cut into 2 pieces: one hit the lip of the cowl and cracked the fiberglass and
the other was deflected down to the nose gear wheel pant. The nose gear pant was
shattered...
>
>If one of them comes at the canopy I would expect it to come through. As mentioned
before on this list - don't play with birds while flying an airplane.
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>---------------------------------
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
very common thought - but untrue. It is theoretically impossible to overstress
the airframe structure by deflection of the controls to limit at or below maneuvering
speed. This does not address gust loading, vertical wind shear, and other
transients that are frequently encountered during flight.
I'm not a 601 driver, but I would thing that the approach speed would we
below the maneuvering speed (Va). Below this speed the wing can not produce
enough lift to overstress the aircraft.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Thatcher"
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
>
>
> Just for the record, be sure when making your 45 to downwind on a gusty
> day you don't try the bank and yank approach (60-70 degree hard bank
> maintaining level flight) then level out abeam the numbers on downwind.
> You just might find that you've exceeded 6 g's in your aircraft as you
> watch your wings embrace your cabin!
>
> Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
> 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
> N601EL
>
>
>
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Baron vs Bird photos |
I toured the AEDC wind tunnel facility in Tullahoma Tennessee. One of the most
talked about features is the Chicken Gun. A large cannon that the military uses
to fire grocery store chickens at canopies. Lots of time has been spent studying
the affects of bird strikes. It is no small matter even at our speeds.
I guess most of you have never seen these photos of the effects of a birdstrike
on a Baron. These should give any pilot the hebe-jeebies.
http://www.micom.net/oops/BaronMidair1.jpg
http://www.micom.net/oops/BaronMidair2.jpg
http://www.micom.net/oops/BaronMidair3.jpg
The third one is just unbelievable.
Kevin Bonds
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: Bird Strike! |
Gig, You are NOT going to believe this but it was my WIFE'S IDEA that I purchase
this plane to keep me "out of trouble and keeping me busy"......She said at
least she knows I am fullfilling a lifelong dream by building the 601 AND we will
be able to use it to travel with after she finishes up her education. She
even went as far as to tell me also, "this isn't going to be the ONLY airplane
your going to want to build, is it?". She knows me all too well.....I have
been blessed with such a loving, caring wife Gig. I adore her.
Larry Hursh
Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
The point of that picture was to show that you probably aren't going to find a
stronger, better windshield when the time comes.
Any improvement would be incremental. The windshields on any light plane (and even
military utility helicopters designed to fly low and medium fast) just ain't
up to a large bird strike.
Now that I've written all this I realize that I don't know if you are replying
to the info on Todd's Canopies or the bird vs Blackhawk photo.
Either way Build, Fly, Enjoy.
And quit talking to your wife about flying. Especially the cost. :)
skyridersbn wrote:
> Thanks Gig. I was talking with my wife about it and told her the whole story
about bird strikes. She wasn't amused to say the least, but DID understand my
concerns. She is thinking it is an excellent idea to try finding a stronger, better
windshield when the time comes.
>
> Thanks again,
> Larry H
>
> Do Not Archive
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171270#171270
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair 5th bearing ... Nitriding |
Message 70
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Message 71
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Rates! |
Hi Sabrina,
It sounds like your prop is not ideal for the XL. Since it is
considerably faster (potentially) than the 150 I think it should have
a steeper pitch. That is even more appropriate if the prop has been shortened.
You know, the definition of maximum LSA speed depends on a number of
things. If I remember correctly it is 120 Knots Calibrated Airspeed
at sea level with maximum continuous power. This gives plenty of
room for a much faster plane to be legal if the manufacturer
(Sabrina) defines the maximum continuous power setting to correspond
to the 120 knots CAS. This sounds a lot better to me than cutting
down the prop to limit airspeed.
There is a really nice propeller calculator on the Culver prop web
page. It can tell you what pitch to have on your prop for a given
RPM and airspeed. You might find having your prop re-pitched will
give you a lot more bang for you fuel buck.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 01:45 PM 3/19/2008, you wrote:
>My Cessna 150L burns 4g/hr in the pattern, 6g/hr cruising at 3000',
>5g/hr leaned at altitude. The E-LSA has the same engine and prop
>combo, so I expect similar numbers. Both O-200As, both flying at
>around 1300 pounds. The prop on the E-LSA was clipped to 67 inches
>to keep it under the LSA speed limit at cruise RPMs, and to give the
>required ground clearance in case of a bungee failure and flat nose tire.
Message 72
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| Subject: | Re: Painting XL nose strut |
Take this for what it is worth, as I am no expert in this field...
but - a friend of mine that has designed and repaired lots of industrial
equipment over the years told me that chroming for purposes of
decoration has NO danger of hyd embrittlement as we are talking only a
few thou of chrome penetration. Completely different: Chroming is
apparently a common procedure for the purpose of hardening metals
(shafts, bearings, etc) (which has no goal to enhance appearance!) and
when done for this reason -- this goes much, much deeper into the
material... and then hyd embrittlement can become an issue... and yes -
a visit to an oven is an easy cure for this problem.
He sounded pretty convincing to me.. so Im just passing it along...
FWIW. I got an interesting explanation of the chroming process... which
is not as simple as plating using other familiar metals....
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: David Downey
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Painting XL nose strut
The hydrogen embrittlement resulting from chrome plating a 4130
structure can, I believe I remember, be removed by baking the chromed
structure at something like 400 or 450F for 4 hours...
I am sure that someone on here can give you the exact recipe - if not
maybe I can ask the metals guys at work.
LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
Tim,
You probably should use something out of a rattle can. I sprayed
black
because zinc chromate primer was worn off at the bearing slides.
It's a least-effort for the occasional refurb and it seems to hold
as
well as anything.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> I'm going to want to hang my nose strut before too long and are
looking for recommendations as to a paint / finish. I'll be painting the
plane later with a catalyzed paint of some kind but I need to put
something on the strut prior to installation.
>
> >From checking the archives I found:
> Chrome - danger of embrittlement
> Powder Coat - too thick, peels, doesn't wear as well a you might
expect.
>
> So what did the rest of you go with? I was considering rattle can
enamel, perhaps baking it at low heat in an oven.
>
Message 73
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Warpdrive |
I have a 3-blade Warpdrive on my 701 with a 100HP Rotax and found 11.2
better than 12-degrees. 12 would only give a maximum static RPM of about
5100.
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graeme
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive
thanks
I will start at 12
Graemecns
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: bob <mailto:kissellr@ameritech.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive
Graemecns,
I fly a 701 with the 100 hp Rotax and have found that 11 to 12 degree is
about right. With 12 degree you will just go to 5800 in full power cruise
and to only about 5400 in a 60 mph climb. I think you will find that 17 will
be far to much.
Bob Kissell N701UB with 47 hour.
----- Original Message -----
From: Graeme <mailto:graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive
Thanks for the values I have read more closly and am ok with torque for my
prop now.
I am going to try 17 derees to start and check it static and adjust
Graemecns
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin L. Rupert <mailto:klr12@psu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive
This was taken right from the Warp Drive web page
Propeller Torque Values
Propeller Bolt Torque Values--All Standard, HP and HPL hubs that use 1/4"
bolts to clamp the blades in the hub should be tightened to 120 inch pounds.
All Rotax bolt patterns that use 8 mm bolts to clamp the blades in the hub
should be tightened to 175 inch pounds. All Standard, HP and HPL hubs that
use 3/8" bolts to clamp the blades or mount the prop should be tightened to
35 foot pounds. Warp Drive propeller installations on direct-drive
aircraft engines and other engines used on airboats must tighten the 5/16"
clamping bolts to 200 inch pounds and tighten the 1/2" flange mounting bolts
to 60 foot pounds. Torque 8mm bolts which attach the propeller hub to the
engine flange to 175 inch pounds. Adherence to these torque values is
imperative for reasons of safety.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
19/03/2008 9:54 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
19/03/2008 9:54 AM
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re: Accident Prevention |
Dave
This report did a detailed investgation on how a aircraft could be
damage at or below va with the right/wrong control inputs
On 3/20/08, David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
> very common thought - but untrue. It is theoretically impossible to
> overstress the airframe structure by deflection of the controls to limit at
> or below maneuvering speed. This does not address gust loading, vertical
> wind shear, and other transients that are frequently encountered during
> flight.
>
> "Gordon"
>
> I'm not a 601 driver, but I would thing that the approach speed would we
> below the maneuvering speed (Va). Below this speed the wing can not produce
> enough lift to overstress the aircraft.
> Gordon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Thatcher"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:02 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident Prevention
>
>
> >
> >
> > Just for the record, be sure when making your 45 to downwind on a gusty
> > day you don't try the bank and yank approach (60-70 degree hard bank
> > maintaining level flight) then level out abeam the numbers on downwind.
> > You just might find that you've exceeded 6 g's in your aircraft as you
> > watch your wings embrace your cabin!
> >
> > Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
> > 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
> > N601EL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Rates! |
Midwest Prop knew the engine, airframe and weights involved, I have confidence
in their calculations. I didn't know the pitch of it when it went in or the
pitch when it came out, all I know is that to keep it as a certified combination
of engine/prop it could not be cut shorter than 67 inches--that is the only
thing I specified.
I am told it climbs much better than my 150L, so maybe it is pitched more than
the Cessna. I don't know.
I know I should have asked more questions of him when I picked up the overhauled
prop, but his son had just been killed in Iraq the day before.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171399#171399
Message 76
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| Subject: | Re: Bird Strike! |
OK Jerry
In a message dated 3/20/2008 8:38:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
I'm interested in your progress on this. Keep me informed please.
[quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]I do not have a design for a windshield
canopy. I am going to build one but my aircraft has several changes to it so
my
parts will not fix any other aircraft. I will extend the turtleback so it will
come up to the gull doors. The top will have about four inch of sheet metal
between the doors. The windshield will start at the instrumental panel.
Using 3/4" tubes to support the windshield and turtleback. Still not happy with
the door stiffness. so may change then again. I used 1/2 by 3/4" angles to
form the doors last time. Jerry of GA
In a message dated 3/19/2008 2:47:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
>
> Do you have a design for a solid roof? I'm interested in using a
windshield and doors myself instead of the bubble.
>
> [quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]YES, if a bubble canopy it broken in the
front I believe the wind will rip? the remaining parts off. Jerry of GA
>
> In a message dated 3/19/2008 12:31:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
> >
> > You mean as opposed to a bubble canopy?
> >
> >
> > jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Looking at the aircraft makes me a believer of a windshield.
The right side of his windshield is gone. I would think that the fact that
the top of the wind shield is attached to the wing and the side is
attached to the fuse. saved the pilots life. The pilot is lucky because
had hit in front of ? him, as he said it could have been over for him. Jerry
of GA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ?
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> > CH601XL - ? Corvair
> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170965#170965
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom000300
00000001).
>
>
> > [b]
> >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171012#171012
>
>
>
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001
).
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171370#171370
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 77
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| Subject: | Re: Baron vs Bird photos |
This looks like the people who forgot to deforst the chicken before firing
it into the plane. :-) Jerry
In a message dated 3/20/2008 9:36:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
KEVINBONDS@comcast.net writes:
http://www.micom.net/oops/BaronMidair2.jpg
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 78
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|
| Subject: | Some new Products |
Aerolite now has gasket sets _http://aeroliteproducts.com/Gasket_Set.php_
(http://aeroliteproducts.com/Gasket_Set.php) and cams
_http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/Camshaft.html_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/Camshaft.html) with
the OT-10 profile for sale. check out the web site for pics.
We are also selling the Oil Cooler adaptor
_http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/Oil_Cooler_Adapter.php_
(http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/Oil_Cooler_Adapter.php) . And our ring gear _http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/RingGear.php_
(http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/RingGear.php) If you are interested in any of our
products please contact me off list or call me for more information.
Thanks,
Jeff
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com)
502-644-8123
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 79
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| Subject: | Re: Primer for semi-exposed steel |
If the information I learned about powder coating is accurate, then
using this process in the engine compartment of an airplane is close
to suicidal.
When I attended an EAA chapter meeting at a powder coating company, I
learned this process is mostly a way to get polyurethane paint on
stuff. I also know that polyurethane produces Hydrogen Cyanide when
burned. This is the stuff many states used for many years to execute
people. It is incredibly poisonous. To put this material in an
engine compartment where there are FIRES seems like the epitome of
foolish moves.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 05:28 PM 3/19/2008, you wrote:
>I prefer powder coating all steel parts. Easy to do (or have
>done). Then you can paint to a finish coat color if needed (ie. exposed).
>
>JT
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Guys I have to admit, I am concerned about the situation and want answers too.
But I would like to take a moment to point out that most of these BS accusations
and "the sky is falling comments" tend to come from people who can't even
spell the name of the person they are accusing of seriously neglectful and unethical
behavior.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171422#171422
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Hi Scratchbuilders,
I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like to know how some of you solved
it.
I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans at www.ch601.org and it has been working fine for thinner material, but today I experimented with some 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping under the top plate and the effort required has begun pulling the rivets on the piano hinge.
Do I:
1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop?
2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold it firmer?
3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down later... this surely results
in a lot of waste?
How did you do it?
Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been live for a while. Does anyone know if he's still building?
Thanks in advance,
Glenn.
--------
Glenn Andressen
601XL- just started.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171424#171424
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