---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/24/08: 53 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD (Dirk Slabbert) 2. 03:56 AM - Re: Re: CH701 Warpdrive (Graeme Bell) 3. 05:06 AM - Monday Evening Chat Room (George Race) 4. 05:14 AM - Re: Bending 40 thou (ashontz) 5. 05:28 AM - Re: Ray Allen Position Sensor for Flaps (Mark Colbeck) 6. 06:00 AM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD (ga23) 7. 06:40 AM - Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (n801bh@netzero.com) 8. 06:43 AM - Re: Firewall spring back (anna Jones) 9. 06:46 AM - Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (T. Graziano) 10. 07:03 AM - Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Pete Krotje) 11. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Juan Vega) 12. 07:35 AM - Re: 701: Replace stab brackets? (Robert Hansen) 13. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Bryan Martin) 14. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Juan Vega) 15. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Jay Maynard) 16. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Juan Vega) 17. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (KEVINBONDS@comcast.net) 18. 08:37 AM - zodiac metal type (Adam V) 19. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 20. 08:47 AM - Re: zodiac metal type (Bill Steer) 21. 08:53 AM - Re: zodiac metal type (Bryan Martin) 22. 08:55 AM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD (Les Goldner) 23. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Bryan Martin) 24. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (John Bolding) 25. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Jaybannist@cs.com) 26. 09:51 AM - Re: zodiac metal type (Adam V) 27. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Dennis Shoup) 28. 10:10 AM - Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (MHerder) 29. 11:16 AM - Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (Gig Giacona) 30. 11:30 AM - Re: Firewall spring back (cookwithgas) 31. 11:34 AM - Positive Flap Position (George Race) 32. 12:19 PM - Re: Positive Flap Position (Dirk Slabbert) 33. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (steve) 34. 01:53 PM - Re: Positive Flap Position (ronlee) 35. 02:43 PM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD (n801bh@netzero.com) 36. 03:08 PM - Re: zodiac metal type (John Marzulli) 37. 04:07 PM - Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (Matt Ronics) 38. 04:14 PM - brs chute handle (Tracy) 39. 04:34 PM - Re: Positive Flap Position (Ronald Steele) 40. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (John Short) 41. 05:24 PM - Re: Positive Flap Position (MaxNr@aol.com) 42. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (ROBERT SCEPPA) 43. 05:43 PM - Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane (ashontz) 44. 05:55 PM - Re: Positive Flap Position (Graeme) 45. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: Positive Flap Position (steve) 46. 06:39 PM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD (Gary Gower) 47. 06:46 PM - Drawing 6-LRO-1 (pavel569) 48. 07:58 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 57 Msgs - 03/23/08 (Jimmy Mathis) 49. 08:19 PM - Death of my Harley (LRM) 50. 08:36 PM - Re: Drawing 6-LRO-1 (Larry Winger) 51. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Firewall spring back (Larry Winger) 52. 09:57 PM - Re: brs chute handle (Les Goldner) 53. 10:44 PM - Re: Re: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery (Terry Phillips) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:30 AM PST US From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD Les, there are some other versions on the list too, this is what I done. Full up is actually + 2 to 3 deg, for a slightly better cruise, down limit is 12 to 15 deg. The result remains to be seen........ All the best, Dirk. Piketberg SA ZU SUZ Stol 701 ( dual stick, wide body) ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Goldner To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:26 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD My left arm is weak because of an old shoulder injury so I found it difficult extending the flaps on my new 701. It took two hands, so whenever I used the flaps I had to let go the stick, and the plane would start to dive before I regained control. not good close to the ground! So I looked around for alternatives. I rejected electric flaps because I didn't want to increase the potential for failures (shorts, motor burn-outs, etc). Michael Heintz at Quality Sport Plane in Northern Ca. came to the rescue with the perfect solution, a flap handle with mechanical advantage. It is very easy to deploy the flaps using this device and even gives a few more degrees of flap if you need them (see two attached pictures). You can visit Quality Sport at http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_023.htm if you are interested in purchasing one. FYI, Michael and Quality Sport were very helpful during the construction of my 701, and Michael is an excellent 701 pilot. A back-country flying DVD, which was produced by Christopher Desmond, features flying by Michael (and Christopher). This DVD is really great! The photography and the STOL flying far exceed anything I have ever seen; Hollywood couldn't do better! Cameras were mounted on the wing, inside the cockpit, and looking up from the ground. Flights go into canyons, land on river banks, and fly from small gravel and grass strips. This video is truly spectacular. If you're interested, I recommend previewing the DVD on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbBb_IuT1_o or contact Christopher to order the full DVD at http://www.stol-adventures.com/. Regards, Les ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:09 AM PST US From: "Graeme Bell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive I have test run the 912 extra at 12.5 degrees I got 4800 rpm static. I intend to change to 11 when I get som propper aircraft Quailty nuloc nuts as some of the bolt shop ones won't do 120in lbs before Stripping. I may have to go less pitch as I only expect 90-95hp from the motor. Will check next weekend after ground run again. GraemeCNS ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Goldner To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:11 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive I have a 3-blade Warpdrive on my 701 with a 100HP Rotax and found 11.2 better than 12-degrees. 12 would only give a maximum static RPM of about 5100. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graeme Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:32 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive thanks I will start at 12 Graemecns do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: bob To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive Graemecns, I fly a 701 with the 100 hp Rotax and have found that 11 to 12 degree is about right. With 12 degree you will just go to 5800 in full power cruise and to only about 5400 in a 60 mph climb. I think you will find that 17 will be far to much. Bob Kissell N701UB with 47 hour. ----- Original Message ----- From: Graeme To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive Thanks for the values I have read more closly and am ok with torque for my prop now. I am going to try 17 derees to start and check it static and adjust Graemecns do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin L. Rupert To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Warpdrive This was taken right from the Warp Drive web page Propeller Torque Values Propeller Bolt Torque Values--All Standard, HP and HPL hubs that use 1/4" bolts to clamp the blades in the hub should be tightened to 120 inch pounds. All Rotax bolt patterns that use 8 mm bolts to clamp the blades in the hub should be tightened to 175 inch pounds. All Standard, HP and HPL hubs that use 3/8" bolts to clamp the blades or mount the prop should be tightened to 35 foot pounds. Warp Drive propeller installations on direct-drive aircraft engines and other engines used on airboats must tighten the 5/16" clamping bolts to 200 inch pounds and tighten the 1/2" flange mounting bolts to 60 foot pounds. Torque 8mm bolts which attach the propeller hub to the engine flange to 175 inch pounds. Adherence to these torque values is imperative for reasons of safety. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 19/03/2008 9:54 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - 19/03/2008 9:54 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 19/03/2008 09:54 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:33 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Monday Evening Chat Room Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern (Daylight Savings Time now in effect) http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George CH-701 N73EX (Reserved) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bending 40 thou From: "ashontz" Thanks. I should draw up some plans for it and sell them. I liked Larry McFarland's brake, but I didn't have a milling machine or lathe at my disposal at the time, so I designed this one to be made with no more than simple hand tools and a bandsaw. I've beefed it up here and there as I've used it and found it's original design flaws and limitations. I can now bend pretty much anything I need on it now. If you go with the rear spar splice it's all you need for a 601HD, HDS, or XL. I think the materials came to about $350. ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.ne wrote: > Andy, > Nice....Is see a business opportunity, when are you going into production? > > Art > 701 Scratchin' > --- ashontz wrote: > > > > > > > > Check out my 8' brake. I've bent 6' .040 on it. Extra clamps involved, but it didn't budge in > > the clamp. > > > > http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=ashontz&project 77&category=0&log 7195&row=154 > > > > > > Jugle wrote: > > > Hi Scratchbuilders, > > > > > > I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like to know how some of you solved it. > > > > > > I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans at www.ch601.org and it has been working > > fine for thinner material, but today I experimented with some 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping > > under the top plate and the effort required has begun pulling the rivets on the piano hinge. > > > > > > Do I: > > > 1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop? > > > 2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold it firmer? > > > 3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down later... this surely results in a lot of > > waste? > > > > > > How did you do it? > > > > > > Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been live for a while. Does anyone know if he's > > still building? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Glenn. > > > > > > -------- > > Andy Shontz > > CH601XL - Corvair > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172072#172072 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172155#172155 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Ray Allen Position Sensor for Flaps From: "Mark Colbeck" Thanks for the input. I think I got it figured now. -------- CH701 70% Complete www.mykitlog.com/mcolbeck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172163#172163 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD From: "ga23" While looking at your flap actuator pictures I saw there is a BRS handle there. Could you provide some info/pictures about your BRS installation? I am going to also install one on my CH 701 and I am not sure about type and location yet. Thanks, Greg Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172167#172167 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:32 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane The devil is in the details... Fla tax code reads.. If you are from out of state and come to Fla for vacation only, then there will be no tax im posed. If you bring a plane to Fla for the purpose of doing business in Fla you WILL be charged tax. Even if you are here for only a second... N ow take that and multiply it by hundreds of show, demo and other planes that are going to be displayed at S&F for the purpose of business. The p romoter claims the tax man will not be there ramp checking out of state planes. He cannot make such statements unless there is a emergengy inju ction allowing for that specific issue. The Fla tax guys can and probabl y will be at S&F legally and my gut feeling is someone is going to pay t he piper.... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Craig Payne" wrote: > Google found this on EAA's site but it has since disappeared. I wonder i f it was retracted: Sun 'n Fun Calls Reports of Florida Use Tax Inaccurate March 21, 2008 - Recent reports of "use taxes" being levied on airplanes owned by non-resident visitors to Florida are not accurate, according to officials at Sun 'n Fun Fly-In at Lakeland, Florida, whose annual aviati on season kick-off takes place the week of April 8-13. Sun 'n Fun has field ed numerous calls from concerned pilots and exhibitors worried about the re port and is looking to alleviate those concerns. "I've talked with the General Counsel of the Florida Department of Reven ue and he assured me that, number 1, there will not be state tax agents doi ng ramp checks, and that out-of-state pilots have nothing to fear," said Jo hn Burton, Sun 'n Fun president. The Florida DoR informed Burton that the t ax affects only those owners who have purchased their airplane in another s tate (outside Florida) within the past six months, but who have the aircraft titled and registered in Florida and have not paid Florida sales tax on that airplane. Sun 'n Fun received correspondence from Florida Department of Revenue Executive Director Lisa Echeverri dated March 19, 2008, that includes th e statement: "Florida does not assess a use tax on non-resident aircraft owners in every circumstance where an aircraft is brought to Florida wit hin the first six months." "It does not impact Sun 'n Fun exhibitors and aircraft dealers; it does not impact aircraft owners who have owned their aircraft for more than six months," Burton said. "The idea of having somebody who has purchased an airplane out of state and is not a resident of FL, getting charged a use tax here is absolutely ludicrous. "It's a classic case of much ado about nothing." Pat Phillips, a member of the EAA Legal Advisory Council as well as Sun 'n Fun air show chairman and a fly-in director, is familiar with the situat ion. "If somebody goes out of state and buys an airplane in a state that char ges no sales tax and brings it to Florida, and the airplane is based in Flor ida, the buyer lives in Florida, and is using the airplane in Florida, yes, h e would owe a 6 percent use tax," he said. "Now, if a transient aircraft comes into Florida from a state where they have not paid sales tax on the aircraft or are just visiting here, they would have no obligation to pay a use tax in the state of Florida just f or using their airplane while visiting in the state," he said. "And I belie ve constitutionally that would be in conflict with the commerce laws of the U.S." Phillips added, "If a person, willingly or innocently, avoids sales tax by buying out of state but bases his aircraft in Florida and lives in the state, then the use tax obligation may apply. But for a person who simpl y flies down to Florida but lives in another state, he will not be assesse d a tax. It's preposterous to even think the state would impose a sales tax. " When EAA's Government Affairs department learned about the Florida use t ax story, it responded immediately by contacting its Legal Advisory Council , which worked with Sun 'n Fun management to get official clarification fr om the Florida Department of Revenue. "This is a good example of how our staff, working with the council, was able to get to the bottom of this story and help clarify this situation," sai d Earl Lawrence, EAA vice president of industry and regulatory affairs. "Hopefully this will put to rest the concerns of non-Florida residents w ho intend to fly into the state for Sun 'n Fun, or any time, for that matte r." -- Craig ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== _____________________________________________________________ Find the apartment of your dreams by clicking here now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/REAK6aBeHXRLdOSboRXUSiGVE zYU8GYJlkvBckjqv4O8YDWBwXed6K/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:03 AM PST US From: " anna Jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall spring back Hi Larry ,I built my firewall strictly to the plans and it worked perfectly .It did not require any additional twicking. I belive it is one of the better parts of my plane. As to how I got the angles correct I don't remember ,must not be a big thing . Wade Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Winger To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:47 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall spring back A quick follow up to my questions. I do have quite a bit of experience in making form blocks for my rudder, horizontal stab, flaps, ailerons and wing ribs. I'm really asking about the uniqueness of this part's material (galvanized steel) and the open flanges (3 and 14 degrees). Thanks again. On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:36 PM, lwinger wrote: Fellow scratch builders, I'm making the form blocks for my 601XL firewall. Any words of advice on how to taper the top (14 degrees open), sides (3 degrees open) and bottom (10 degree closed)? Also, any special tips of forming the .018" galvanized steel? Thanks. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair from scratch Control surfaces and wings complete. Bottom rear fuselage done www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172100#172100 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:44 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane See partial excerpt from today's Aero-News at webmaster@aero-news.net Tony Graziano 601XL; N493TG Additional Experts Weigh In On Risks Of FL Use Tax Exposure SnF Misdirection Appears To Have Been Horribly Off Mark Despite the assertions of one aviation event that ANN (and other media) reports of potential hazards and/or exposure to FL Tax penalties, a staggering amount of evidence continues to pour into ANN to prove that the Aero-News Network (along with exceptional work by AOPA and FATA) has gotten the story right all along. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:17 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane This story has been making the rounds since Aero News Network published it. See the Sun N Fun response attached. I think it is somewhat reflective of the ongoing war between Sun N Fun and the ANN editor. Pete _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ZodieRocket Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:15 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane True or Not I cannot confirm as I do not have first hand knowledge, but be VERY concerned !!! Folks I do not know much about this issue other then what is written below, but be advised this will also carry to your homebuilt and LSA from a call I had heard. SO if your aircraft is less then 1 yr old be cautious of crossing the Florida state line. This may be a hoax, but I have been told that one plane has been confirmed in owing payment from a respected source. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com Should New Aircraft Owners 'Avoid Florida?' Welcome To The Sunshine State... NOT It appears Florida's tax personnel are targeting new airplane owners in ways that do not exactly make them feel welcome to the state. Over the course of the last few weeks, ANN has learned of a number of issues that have arisen when owners of new aircraft, generally within the first six months of the sale, have been targeted for "use tax" by agents of the state's Department of Revenue... despite the fact that the targeted aircraft were not owned or operated by state residents. It starts like this... you buy a new or used aircraft and sign the bill of sale... which starts "the clock." It is Florida's position that for the next six months (possibly thereafter, though the burden of proof reportedly changes at that point), the state has the right to exact the requisite "Use Tax" (Sales Tax) for the fact you partook of the state's services unless you can show an equivalent Use or Sales Tax receipt from another state... In other words, for those of you who may have bought a $500K Cessna, Cirrus, Columbia, etc... unless you can prove that you paid the equivalent use tax in another state, you owe the state of Florida some $30K if you visited the state in the first six months of your ownership. Mind you, if your sales/use tax bill comes from a state that exacts LESS tax than Florida, the FL Department of Revenue still expects you to pony up the difference... and if you're from a state that exacts a minimum fee (like the few hundred dollars for owners in South Carolina), they will bill you for the WHOLE difference... and its up to you to fight them on it. No kidding. It makes NO difference to the state if you have any property in Florida, or whether you bought the airplane there, or if you have ANY business interests whatsoever in the state... If Florida catches you here and if they can find a way to stick you with a tax bill, they will. According to the Florida Tax Code, "There shall be a presumption that any aircraft, boat, mobile home, motor vehicle, or other vehicle purchased in another state, territory of the United States, or the District of Columbia but titled, registered, or licensed in this state is taxable except as otherwise provided in subsection (26) of this rule. This presumption may be rebutted only by documentary evidence that the person owning the aircraft, boat, mobile home, or motor vehicle purchased the aircraft, boat, mobile home, or motor vehicle in another state, territory of the United States, or the District of Columbia six (6) months or more prior to the time it is brought into this state. In order for such property to be presumed exempt as purchased for use outside Florida, the person owning the aircraft, boat, mobile home, motor vehicle, or other vehicle must provide documentary proof that such property was used in other states, territories of the United States, or the District of Columbia for six months or longer under conditions which would lawfully give rise to the taxing jurisdiction of another state, territory, or District of Columbia and any lawfully imposed tax was paid to such state, territory, or District of Columbia before being imported into this state. However, the rental or lease of any aircraft, boat, mobile home, or motor vehicle which is used or stored in this state is taxable without regard to its prior use or tax paid on the purchase outside this state." Why? Because they can. The very liberal Florida tax code allows them to tax aircraft if they operate at any time during the first six months of a purchase in the state... and according to some interpretations, there may be some legal justification for Florida to tax you if you so much as fly OVER the state. This problem has been known for a while but recent ramp checks by FL DOR personnel have apparently stepped up, and snagged at least one Cirrus owner and a Meridian owner who came back to Florida to undertake flight training in his new airplane. The Cirrus owner is on the hook for some $30K in additional taxes... the Meridian owner -- well over $100K. Welcome to Florida, folks, please remove the knife from your back as you cross back over the state lines... A spokesperson for the FL DOR, Rene Watters, is unapologetic for the issue, telling ANN that they are simply doing their jobs and that if anyone has a problem with that, to "take it up with the legislature." This matter, of course, can be appealed through the courts... but this route necessitates expensive and time consuming litigation, via the use of a trained tax attorney... and you may still lose, after all. Catch 22. Other DOR staffers opine that aircraft owners have it particularly hard, since they admit that RVs and boats get a somewhat more permissive treatment from them, "...Probably due to better lobbying on the part of their industry reps." Regardless; it's spooking a number of aircraft owners... we spoke with an avionics shop in Northern Florida that lost some business due to the concern expressed by an aircraft owner over bringing his airplane into the state shortly after he bought it, and Piper is reportedly NOT pleased about the Meridian tax bill noted above... especially at a time when the state is trying to con (uh, convince) Piper to locate the PiperJet facility within the state. We have a feeling that Piper CEO Jim Bass may have a few things to say, as a result of these recent events, since anyone taking delivery at a Florida Piper plant may find themselves with a tax bill, even if they leave the state right away and never darken the state's borders again. In the meantime, the recent escalation in DOR ramp inspections is getting aggressive attention from the aviation business community -- and we expect to get some feedback on the matter shortly... we'll update you as to what occurs. Portions Copyright C 1999-2008 by Aero-News Network, Inc. All rights reserved. For more info please visit http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:33 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane if the plane has been registered six months or more prior to flight, it is not an issue. the law is set up more for larger certified planes. -----Original Message----- >From: "T. Graziano" >Sent: Mar 24, 2008 9:43 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > >See partial excerpt from today's Aero-News at webmaster@aero-news.net >Tony Graziano >601XL; N493TG >Additional Experts Weigh In On Risks Of FL Use Tax Exposure > >SnF Misdirection Appears To Have Been Horribly Off Mark >Despite the assertions of one aviation event that ANN (and other media) reports of potential hazards and/or exposure to FL Tax penalties, a staggering amount of evidence continues to pour into ANN to prove that the Aero-News Network (along with exceptional work by AOPA and FATA) has gotten the story right all along. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:54 AM PST US From: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701: Replace stab brackets? Yesterday I put my Stab brackets on and I have the updated ones. I watch the homebuilt help cd to get things right. Are most people installing the brackets prior to the fuselage build? If so is it easy to get them to fit right? I have mine clecoed in place and have the right distance between them. Rob ----- Original Message ---- From: "NYTerminat@aol.com" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:25:17 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701: Replace stab brackets? Tony. Yes you should upgrade to .063. I have the 912ULS with the slipper clutch and it still shakes at shutdown. I just did mine after 140 hrs , no cracks on old ones but I felt better safe than sorry, especially with all the 601's falling out of the sky ;) JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No problem with duplicating the holes to the new piece for the A-5's. Bob Spudis In a message dated 3/22/2008 9:52:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tbonsell@luxuria.com writes: Hi Guys Well I finally ordered my 912ULS. Wow that is a lot of money. Apparently the slipper clutch is standard now. Since the slipper clutch reduces the nasty shutdown wag that has crack the stab mounts on 701s, should I still replace those 7H2-6 mounts with the .063? If anyone has done this, how much hassle was it? Did you manage to get them in with the same A5 holes? Or did you bolt them in with AN3s? It gives me a headache just to think about he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; - List Contribution Web Site ; ======================== Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:49 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane Everything published on Aero News Network should be taken with a grain of salt, especially when it refers to Sun'N'Fun. The man who runs ANN has a long standing grudge against SNF and in fact has been banned from the event for several years due to his often bizarre behavior. He has filed many nuisance lawsuits against SNF and others. Every suit has been dismissed. I think he has even sued one of the lawyers he hired to sue SNF. He has a long history of resorting to character assassination of anyone who publicly disagrees with him and any advertiser who decides not to renew and ad in his publication. Do a google search on "Zoom Campbell" for the whole story. On Mar 24, 2008, at 9:43 AM, T. Graziano wrote: > See partial excerpt from today's Aero-News at webmaster@aero-news.net > > Tony Graziano > 601XL; N493TG > Additional Experts Weigh In On Risks Of FL Use Tax Exposure > > > SnF Misdirection Appears To Have Been Horribly Off Mark > > Despite the assertions of one aviation event that ANN (and other > media) reports of potential hazards and/or exposure to FL Tax > penalties, a staggering amount of evidence continues to pour into > ANN to prove that the Aero-News Network (along with exceptional work > by AOPA and FATA) has gotten the story right all along. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:00 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane Need we say more? The guy is a WACK! Juan See below article: I was once a fan of Jim Campbell and U S Aviator Magazine. However Jim has lost my respect, and that of many others, -- even though we still agree with some of the things he writes -- because of his complete lack of journalistic ethics and his pattern of retaliation against those who disagree with him. After Jim began writing column after column complaining about how the "terrorists" were trying to shut down US Aviator Magazine what came to my mind was "me thinks he doth protest too much". Reading the Usenet forum rec.aviation.homebuilt I found posts by former employees and associates of Jim Campbell. A Magzine Editor and Publisher has a special responsibility because innacurate writings sent to readers can unfairly damage individuals and companies, who have little opportunity to tell their side of the story. Therefore honesty and objectivity are critical for journalists. Many have questioned Jim Campbell's journalistic honesty and objectivity. While it's true that some of the companies to which he gives bad recommendations have had problems, many believe that for most of the companies their problems are "not kissing up to Jim Campbell". Many of the Campbell critics were former supporters, associates, even employees. I soon found much documentation about how Jim Campbell reacts very harshly to any critic, even to any perceived criticism, threatening legal action, denouncing critics as "terrorists", claiming thousands of supporters, stating that documents posted were forgeries, telephoning critics employers and making accusations that the employer may be liable for the posting, etc. Click here for the example of Jim Campbell's reaction to a critic that started me to question his credibility and his tactics. These examples are links to a UseNet message archived on Google Groups. Click here for typical example of Zoom's reaction to a critic. When I discovered that in 1980 Jim Campbell's Medical Cerificate was revoked following an NTSB hearing, I became very suspicious. This revocation was due to Jim's diagnosed personality disorder. For more information about this, read the information elsewhere on this web page about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I obtained a copy of this NTSB transcript and found it interesting reading. Jim Campbell often posted on UseNet claiming this document was a forgery. However this copy was obtained legally from the NTSB. I suggest that you read the transcript and make up your own mind about what type of person Jim Campbell was in 1980, and then compare that to the present Jim Campbell. April 1998 Jim Campbell sued me -- for posting a copy of a public record, NTSB hearing SE-4661, on my web page -- and 14 others for posting comment critical of him on Usenet. US Aviator ceased publication for good in the fall of 1999, but Jim Campbell continues as a "publisher" with an on-line web-based magazine and daily news service. Although less controversial than US Aviator, Campbell uses Aero News Network to criticize some of those that he has been critical of for years, i.e., The Sun 'n Fun Fly-In and Chuck Slusarczyk (CGS Aviation). Click here for an example of how Zoom uses ANN just as he did US Aviator. Click here for a recent example of Zoom's reaction to a critic. John Ousterhout April 19, 2005 -----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Martin >Sent: Mar 24, 2008 10:36 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > >Everything published on Aero News Network should be taken with a grain >of salt, especially when it refers to Sun'N'Fun. The man who runs ANN >has a long standing grudge against SNF and in fact has been banned >from the event for several years due to his often bizarre behavior. He >has filed many nuisance lawsuits against SNF and others. Every suit >has been dismissed. I think he has even sued one of the lawyers he >hired to sue SNF. He has a long history of resorting to character >assassination of anyone who publicly disagrees with him and any >advertiser who decides not to renew and ad in his publication. Do a >google search on "Zoom Campbell" for the whole story. > > >On Mar 24, 2008, at 9:43 AM, T. Graziano wrote: > >> See partial excerpt from today's Aero-News at webmaster@aero-news.net >> >> Tony Graziano >> 601XL; N493TG >> Additional Experts Weigh In On Risks Of FL Use Tax Exposure >> >> >> SnF Misdirection Appears To Have Been Horribly Off Mark >> >> Despite the assertions of one aviation event that ANN (and other >> media) reports of potential hazards and/or exposure to FL Tax >> penalties, a staggering amount of evidence continues to pour into >> ANN to prove that the Aero-News Network (along with exceptional work >> by AOPA and FATA) has gotten the story right all along. >> >> ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:21 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:36:18AM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote: > Everything published on Aero News Network should be taken with a grain > of salt, especially when it refers to Sun'N'Fun. The man who runs ANN > has a long standing grudge against SNF and in fact has been banned > from the event for several years due to his often bizarre behavior. As I posted last night: It's not just Zoom Campbell who's raising this alarm. AOPA is also reporting on this issue, and Phil Boyer has personally talked about it at at least one pilot town meeting. See http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080320fl.html . Zoom Campbell may well be a kook. Phil Boyer is not. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:29 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane Need we say more? The guy is a WACK! Juan See below article: I was once a fan of Jim Campbell and U S Aviator Magazine. However Jim has lost my respect, and that of many others, -- even though we still agree with some of the things he writes -- because of his complete lack of journalistic ethics and his pattern of retaliation against those who disagree with him. After Jim began writing column after column complaining about how the "terrorists" were trying to shut down US Aviator Magazine what came to my mind was "me thinks he doth protest too much". Reading the Usenet forum rec.aviation.homebuilt I found posts by former employees and associates of Jim Campbell. A Magzine Editor and Publisher has a special responsibility because innacurate writings sent to readers can unfairly damage individuals and companies, who have little opportunity to tell their side of the story. Therefore honesty and objectivity are critical for journalists. Many have questioned Jim Campbell's journalistic honesty and objectivity. While it's true that some of the companies to which he gives bad recommendations have had problems, many believe that for most of the companies their problems are "not kissing up to Jim Campbell". Many of the Campbell critics were former supporters, associates, even employees. I soon found much documentation about how Jim Campbell reacts very harshly to any critic, even to any perceived criticism, threatening legal action, denouncing critics as "terrorists", claiming thousands of supporters, stating that documents posted were forgeries, telephoning critics employers and making accusations that the employer may be liable for the posting, etc. Click here for the example of Jim Campbell's reaction to a critic that started me to question his credibility and his tactics. These examples are links to a UseNet message archived on Google Groups. Click here for typical example of Zoom's reaction to a critic. When I discovered that in 1980 Jim Campbell's Medical Cerificate was revoked following an NTSB hearing, I became very suspicious. This revocation was due to Jim's diagnosed personality disorder. For more information about this, read the information elsewhere on this web page about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I obtained a copy of this NTSB transcript and found it interesting reading. Jim Campbell often posted on UseNet claiming this document was a forgery. However this copy was obtained legally from the NTSB. I suggest that you read the transcript and make up your own mind about what type of person Jim Campbell was in 1980, and then compare that to the present Jim Campbell. April 1998 Jim Campbell sued me -- for posting a copy of a public record, NTSB hearing SE-4661, on my web page -- and 14 others for posting comment critical of him on Usenet. US Aviator ceased publication for good in the fall of 1999, but Jim Campbell continues as a "publisher" with an on-line web-based magazine and daily news service. Although less controversial than US Aviator, Campbell uses Aero News Network to criticize some of those that he has been critical of for years, i.e., The Sun 'n Fun Fly-In and Chuck Slusarczyk (CGS Aviation). Click here for an example of how Zoom uses ANN just as he did US Aviator. Click here for a recent example of Zoom's reaction to a critic. John Ousterhout April 19, 2005 -----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Martin >Sent: Mar 24, 2008 10:36 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > >Everything published on Aero News Network should be taken with a grain >of salt, especially when it refers to Sun'N'Fun. The man who runs ANN >has a long standing grudge against SNF and in fact has been banned >from the event for several years due to his often bizarre behavior. He >has filed many nuisance lawsuits against SNF and others. Every suit >has been dismissed. I think he has even sued one of the lawyers he >hired to sue SNF. He has a long history of resorting to character >assassination of anyone who publicly disagrees with him and any >advertiser who decides not to renew and ad in his publication. Do a >google search on "Zoom Campbell" for the whole story. > > >On Mar 24, 2008, at 9:43 AM, T. Graziano wrote: > >> See partial excerpt from today's Aero-News at webmaster@aero-news.net >> >> Tony Graziano >> 601XL; N493TG >> Additional Experts Weigh In On Risks Of FL Use Tax Exposure >> >> >> SnF Misdirection Appears To Have Been Horribly Off Mark >> >> Despite the assertions of one aviation event that ANN (and other >> media) reports of potential hazards and/or exposure to FL Tax >> penalties, a staggering amount of evidence continues to pour into >> ANN to prove that the Aero-News Network (along with exceptional work >> by AOPA and FATA) has gotten the story right all along. >> >> ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:57 AM PST US From: KEVINBONDS@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane Why isn't this guy a member of the Zenith-list? He'd fit right in! ;) Kevin Bonds -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Juan Vega > > Need we say more? The guy is a WACK! > > Juan > See below article: > > I was once a fan of Jim Campbell and U S Aviator Magazine. However Jim has lost > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:59 AM PST US From: Adam V Subject: Zenith-List: zodiac metal type what is the type of aluminium used in this airplane?? know the thickness a re .010 to about .125 _________________________________________________________________ This Valentine's Day, get creative and show your sweetheart how much you ca re with flair! Find fun date ideas here! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/224 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:34 AM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane Hey guys: I know it has not been settled yet, but things are working. For example, this was posted on AOPA site on Thursday >> AOPA has been working with the Florida Department of Transportation and stat e lawmakers to resolve the issue. And now AOPA President Phil Boyer has contacted Gov. Charlie Crist, asking him to put a moratorium on the tax unt il legislators can address the problem, especially with so many pilots about t o visit Florida for the annual Sun =99n Fun Fly-In. _In a March 19 letter_ (http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2008/080320fl.pdf) to the governor, Boyer warned that the aggressive tax enforcement is keepin g many general aviation pilots from visiting the state, which typically receives 9 million visitors and $2.3 billion in revenue through GA each year . AOPA Expo is scheduled to be held in Tampa in 2009. >> keep em flyin Lynn Nelsen **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol hom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:02 AM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: zodiac metal type I'm building a 601HD, not an XL, but all of the aluminum in my plane is 6061-T6, with the exception of the wing root fairings, which are 1100. The minimum thickness is .016. Maximum is in the wing splice plates, which are about 3/16" (don't have the plans in front of me). Bill Do not archive Adam V wrote: > what is the type of aluminium used in this airplane?? know the > thickness are .010 to about .125 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:49 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: zodiac metal type All the Zenith aircraft are made of 6061-T6 aluminum. On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:32 AM, Adam V wrote: > what is the type of aluminium used in this airplane?? know the > thickness are .010 to about .125 > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:19 AM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD Your flap actuator looks good Dirk, FYI, Michael warned me not to set the flaps up above the neutral position for cruise. Have you found that this really improves speed? Les _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dirk Slabbert Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:59 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD Les, there are some other versions on the list too, this is what I done. Full up is actually + 2 to 3 deg, for a slightly better cruise, down limit is 12 to 15 deg. The result remains to be seen........ All the best, Dirk. Piketberg SA ZU SUZ Stol 701 ( dual stick, wide body) ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Goldner Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:26 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD My left arm is weak because of an old shoulder injury so I found it difficult extending the flaps on my new 701. It took two hands, so whenever I used the flaps I had to let go the stick, and the plane would start to dive before I regained control. not good close to the ground! So I looked around for alternatives. I rejected electric flaps because I didn't want to increase the potential for failures (shorts, motor burn-outs, etc). Michael Heintz at Quality Sport Plane in Northern Ca. came to the rescue with the perfect solution, a flap handle with mechanical advantage. It is very easy to deploy the flaps using this device and even gives a few more degrees of flap if you need them (see two attached pictures). You can visit Quality Sport at http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_023.htm if you are interested in purchasing one. FYI, Michael and Quality Sport were very helpful during the construction of my 701, and Michael is an excellent 701 pilot. A back-country flying DVD, which was produced by Christopher Desmond, features flying by Michael (and Christopher). This DVD is really great! The photography and the STOL flying far exceed anything I have ever seen; Hollywood couldn't do better! Cameras were mounted on the wing, inside the cockpit, and looking up from the ground. Flights go into canyons, land on river banks, and fly from small gravel and grass strips. This video is truly spectacular. If you're interested, I recommend previewing the DVD on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbBb_IuT1_o or contact Christopher to order the full DVD at http://www.stol-adventures.com/. Regards, Les ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:12 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane It wouldn't be the first time that a state greedy for additional revenue ended up driving business out of state due to idiotic tax policies. The next thing you know, the state officials will be scratching their heads wondering why the unemployment rate in the state is so high. I hope someone talks some sense into these morons. On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Jay Maynard wrote: > > As I posted last night: It's not just Zoom Campbell who's raising this > alarm. AOPA is also reporting on this issue, and Phil Boyer has > personally > talked about it at at least one pilot town meeting. See > http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080320fl.html . > > Zoom Campbell may well be a kook. Phil Boyer is not. > -- -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:22 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane He already is, under an assumed name, guess which one ??? John ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > > Why isn't this guy a member of the Zenith-list? He'd fit right in! ;) > > Kevin Bonds > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Juan Vega >> >> Need we say more? The guy is a WACK! >> >> Juan >> See below article: >> >> I was once a fan of Jim Campbell and U S Aviator Magazine. However Jim >> has lost >> > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:51 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane Kinda' like "Know how to keep a turkey in suspense?" "I'll tell you tomorrow." Jay in Dallas Do not archive "John Bolding" wrote: > >He already is, under an assumed name, guess which one ??? > >John > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:19 AM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > > >> >> Why isn't this guy a member of the Zenith-list? He'd fit right in! ;) >> >> Kevin Bonds >> -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> From: Juan Vega >>> >>> Need we say more? The guy is a WACK! >>> >>> Juan >>> See below article: >>> >>> I was once a fan of Jim Campbell and U S Aviator Magazine. However Jim >>> has lost >>> >> > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:26 AM PST US From: Adam V Subject: RE: Zenith-List: zodiac metal type thanks From: bryanmmartin@comcast.netTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zen ith-List: zodiac metal typeDate: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:50:15 -0400All the Zen ith aircraft are made of 6061-T6 aluminum. On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:32 AM, Adam V wrote: what is the type of aluminium used in this airplane?? know the thickness a re .010 to about .125 -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. _________________________________________________________________ This Valentine's Day, get creative and show your sweetheart how much you ca re with flair! Find fun date ideas here! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/224 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:49 AM PST US From: "Dennis Shoup" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane And this from a state that survives on tourisim. On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Bryan Martin wrote: > > It wouldn't be the first time that a state greedy for additional > revenue ended up driving business out of state due to idiotic tax > policies. The next thing you know, the state officials will be > scratching their heads wondering why the unemployment rate in the > state is so high. I hope someone talks some sense into these morons. > > On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Jay Maynard wrote: > > > > > As I posted last night: It's not just Zoom Campbell who's raising this > > alarm. AOPA is also reporting on this issue, and Phil Boyer has > > personally > > talked about it at at least one pilot town meeting. See > > http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080320fl.html . > > > > Zoom Campbell may well be a kook. Phil Boyer is not. > > -- > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP From: "MHerder" I have wondered about this from time to time, has anyone tried powering an XL with a Jab 2200? I know the manual calls for 80-120 hp. My thoughts are that climb would be affected much more than cruise. I personally like the idea of having the extra power to get you out of trouble, but would imagine that even with an 80hp it would still probably out perform a Cherokee 140. -------- One Rivet at a Time! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172255#172255 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:33 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane From: "Gig Giacona" I'd really like to see them try to enforce the tax in a case where a buyer purchases an airplane in say Arkansas on March 15th, flies to Orlando for even a long 30 day vacation and then flies back to Arkansas. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172269#172269 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Firewall spring back From: "cookwithgas" Hi Larry: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_17_04_Firewall.JPG As you can see from the above picture it does not take superior intelligence to build the firewall! Just do it like all the other formed parts and it will be fine. It stays bent better since it is steel. Here are some more photos from the process: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_9_04_Firewall.JPG http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_9_04_FirewallCutting.JPG http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_17_04_FirewallParts.JPG Keep Snipping and Hammering, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Omaha, NE 601XL/Corvair Finished & Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172274#172274 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:16 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Positive Flap Position In a positing about 701 Flap Controls, Dirk Slabbert down in Piketberg SA mentioned his idea to provide 2 to 3 degrees of positive flap position. I wonder if anyone else has experimented with this idea and can report results obtained. Used in conjunction with elevator trim, it would seem that you would be able to "adjust" your level flight attitude for least drag and best cruise fuel economy over a small range, by making this small change Since I have incorporated electric flap control, it would be a very easy adjustment to make when rigging the flaperon position. George CH-701 Kit (N73EX reserved) Getting close to finish. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:52 PM PST US From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Positive Flap Position George, I think you got it right! The idea is to somewhat smooth out the downwash from the main airfoil, by setting the flaperon so it blows up slightly. Remains to be seen! Just for interest I made my rear stab, slightly adjustable, + or - 3 deg, to perhaps find the best cruise. I have'nt worked on mine for 3 months, but at it again, now or never! 'Best, Dirk. ----- Original Message ----- From: George Race To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Positive Flap Position In a positing about 701 Flap Controls, Dirk Slabbert down in Piketberg SA mentioned his idea to provide 2 to 3 degrees of positive flap position. I wonder if anyone else has experimented with this idea and can report results obtained. Used in conjunction with elevator trim, it would seem that you would be able to "adjust" your level flight attitude for least drag and best cruise fuel economy over a small range, by making this small change Since I have incorporated electric flap control, it would be a very easy adjustment to make when rigging the flaperon position. George CH-701 Kit (N73EX reserved) Getting close to finish. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:48 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane ok, we want names. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bolding" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > > > He already is, under an assumed name, guess which one ??? > > John > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:19 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > > >> >> Why isn't this guy a member of the Zenith-list? He'd fit right in! ;) >> >> Kevin Bonds >> -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> From: Juan Vega >>> >>> Need we say more? The guy is a WACK! >>> >>> Juan >>> See below article: >>> >>> I was once a fan of Jim Campbell and U S Aviator Magazine. However Jim >>> has lost >>> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Positive Flap Position From: "ronlee" I have electric flaps on my 701. I am able to put in a few degrees ( maybe 10, I can't remember) of positive angle, up on the trailing edge of flaperons, also known as re flexing. I get 2-3 mph more speed in normal cruise (4800 RPM) without changing the throttle setting. When I do this my nose comes up so I have to trim it down to maintain level flight, indicating needing less down pressure from the tail and less weight to the main wing. Is this a more efficient way to cruise? it appears so. I love my 701 as much as the first time I flew it. I now have over 100 hours on it. I fly it every chance I get.I built a Titan that I could reflex the flaps and it helped the speed too. I then reflexed the ailerons which gave me a bit more speed. It would stall at a bit higher speed if I landed with reflexed flaps. I had no control over the ailerons though, as they were set in a reflexed position all the time.Ron LeeTucson, AZ -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172312#172312 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:37 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD Michael is right... On my 801 I set up my flaperons with about 3 degrees of "reflex".. That's flaps set above neutral.... I lost 5 mph and the p lane flew nose up.... They are back to the factory setting now.... Some planes might be able to take advantage of reflex, The STOL series in not in that group... YMMV do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Les Goldner" wrote: Your flap actuator looks good Dirk,FYI, Michael warned me not to set the flaps up above the neutral position for cruise. Have you found that thi s really improves speed? Les From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-s erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dirk Slabbert Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:59 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD Les, there are some other versions on the list too, this is what I done. Full up is actually + 2 to 3 deg, for a slightly better cruise, down li mit is 12 to 15 deg. The result remains to be seen........ All the best, Dirk.Piketberg SAZU SUZStol 701 ( dual stick, wide body) ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Goldner To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sun day, March 23, 2008 9:26 PMSubject: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control soluti on and flying DVD My left arm is weak because of an old shoulder injury so I found it diff icult extending the flaps on my new 701. It took two hands, so whenever I used the flaps I had to let go the stick, and the plane w ould start to dive before I regained control=85 not good close to the gr ound! So I looked around for alternatives. I rejected electric flaps because I didn=92t want to increase the potential for failures (shorts, motor bur n-outs, etc). Michael Heintz at Quality Sport Plane in Northern Ca. came to the rescue with the perfect solution, a flap handle with mechanical advantage. It is very easy to deploy the flaps using this device and eve n gives a few more degrees of flap if you need them (see two attached pi ctures). You can visit Quality Sport at http://www.qualitysportplanes.co m/qsp-2006_023.htm if you are interested in purchasing one. FYI, Michael and Quality Sport were very helpful during the construction of my 701, and Michael is an excellent 701 pilot. A back-country flying DVD, which was produced by Christopher Desmond, features flying by Mich ael (and Christopher). This DVD is really great! The photography and the STOL flying far exceed anything I have ever seen; Hollywood couldn't do better! Cameras were mounted on the wing, inside the cockpit, and looki ng up from the ground. Flights go into canyons, land on river banks, an d fly from small gravel and grass strips. This video is truly spectacula r. If you=92re interested, I recommend previewing the DVD on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbBb_IuT1_o or contact Christopher to o rder the full DVD at http://www.stol-adventures.com/. Regards, Les ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== === _____________________________________________________________ Click now to embark on a successful customer service career! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/REAK6aBfJNMJHCcRHkNoRQWCH x8pmsctWTBSOecT95VLurKpjAZfsO/ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:05 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: zodiac metal type 2024 series is a commonly approved substitute for Zenith aircraft. Of course, contact Zenith before doing so. -Good luck! On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Bryan Martin wrote: > All the Zenith aircraft are made of 6061-T6 aluminum. > On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:32 AM, Adam V wrote: > > what is the type of aluminium used in this airplane?? know the thickness > are .010 to about .125 > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > * > > * > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP From: "Matt Ronics" Already having on-hand a C-85, I called Zenith about using it in the XL. In summary, I was advised that I probably wouldn't be pleased with the performance. At the same time, I was told that this would be an excellent engine in a 601HD/S. Of note you are asking for "cruise speed" with the 80hp engine. Note that, generally speaking, it is climb performance, and not cruise, that is effected more by changing cubes. For example, using Van's numbers for the RV-4, increasing the HP 17% will give you a 6% improvement in cruise and a 25% improvement in climb. Having thought this through in the past, I recall coming to the conclusion that the XL with 85hp would perform like a C-150. I spoke with one 601HD (standard fat wing) owner with a C-85...his numbers were very close to or less than those of a C-150. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172354#172354 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:40 PM PST US From: Tracy Subject: Zenith-List: brs chute handle can anyone tell me where they put the ativation handle in there 701? ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:45 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Positive Flap Position The CTSW light sport plane by Flight Design actually uses positive flap position for cruise flight. I think it's about 6deg. Ron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Race > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:27 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Positive Flap Position > > In a positing about 701 Flap Controls, Dirk Slabbert down in > Piketberg SA mentioned his idea to provide 2 to 3 degrees of > positive flap position. > > I wonder if anyone else has experimented with this idea and can > report results obtained. Used in conjunction with elevator trim, > it would seem that you would be able to "adjust" your level flight > attitude for least drag and best cruise fuel economy over a small > range, by making this small change > > Since I have incorporated electric flap control, it would be a very > easy adjustment to make when rigging the flaperon position. > > George > CH-701 Kit (N73EX reserved) > Getting close to finish. > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:49 PM PST US From: "John Short" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP Would you be interested in selling the C-85? John (Scratch building 701) Kaufman, Tx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Ronics" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP > > Already having on-hand a C-85, I called Zenith about using it in the XL. > In summary, I was advised that I probably wouldn't be pleased with the > performance. At the same time, I was told that this would be an excellent > engine in a 601HD/S. > > Of note you are asking for "cruise speed" with the 80hp engine. Note > that, generally speaking, it is climb performance, and not cruise, that is > effected more by changing cubes. For example, using Van's numbers for > the RV-4, increasing the HP 17% will give you a 6% improvement in cruise > and a 25% improvement in climb. > > Having thought this through in the past, I recall coming to the conclusion > that the XL with 85hp would perform like a C-150. I spoke with one 601HD > (standard fat wing) owner with a C-85...his numbers were very close to or > less than those of a C-150. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172354#172354 > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:38 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Positive Flap Position Most competition sailplanes use reflex flaps and I heard that Maule uses 7 degree reflex in cruise. Bob Dingley ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:38 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > The morons in my state want to charge a sales tax > on all homebuilts. The last governor we had removed > it and that was Romney, now the present idiot wants > it put back. NH got it right "Live free or die" --- Dennis Shoup wrote: > And this from a state that survives on tourisim. > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Bryan Martin > > wrote: > > > > > > It wouldn't be the first time that a state greedy > for additional > > revenue ended up driving business out of state due > to idiotic tax > > policies. The next thing you know, the state > officials will be > > scratching their heads wondering why the > unemployment rate in the > > state is so high. I hope someone talks some sense > into these morons. > > > > On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Jay Maynard wrote: > > > > > > > > As I posted last night: It's not just Zoom > Campbell who's raising this > > > alarm. AOPA is also reporting on this issue, and > Phil Boyer has > > > personally > > > talked about it at at least one pilot town > meeting. See > > > > http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080320fl.html > . > > > > > > Zoom Campbell may well be a kook. Phil Boyer is > not. > > > -- > > > > > > -- > > Bryan Martin > > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > > do not archive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane From: "ashontz" This sounds more accurate. Even so, just shows you what a pathetic state Florida is. Don't get me wrong, I love it there, but they went and thought this housing bubble was going to be permanent and after they ramped up and got used to their extra revenue from property tax, now that it's drying up because, well, it was a bubble, now they're looking for cash anywhere they can get it. That place is toast. No, everyone IS NOT moving there, in fact just a quick look at the one way U-Haul rates to FL vs from FL, it's obvious people are leaving due to the ridiculous cost of living down there now. Everyone will be moving to FL just as soon as they sell their houses up north which were HELOCed to buy the inflated vacation property (or 5) down in FL. "I've talked with the General Counsel of the Florida Department of Revenue and he assured me that, number 1, there will not be state tax agents doing ramp checks, and that out-of-state pilots have nothing to fear," said John Burton, Sun 'n Fun president. The Florida DoR informed Burton that the tax affects only those owners who have purchased their airplane in another state (outside Florida) within the past six months, but who have the aircraft titled and registered in Florida and have not paid Florida sales tax on that airplane. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172381#172381 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:03 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Positive Flap Position I think you will find the CH 701 flies to slow to be helped by fositive flap. a reduction in negative from spec creates a higher nose attitude. Graemecns ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Steele To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Positive Flap Position The CTSW light sport plane by Flight Design actually uses positive flap position for cruise flight. I think it's about 6deg. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: George Race To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Positive Flap Position In a positing about 701 Flap Controls, Dirk Slabbert down in Piketberg SA mentioned his idea to provide 2 to 3 degrees of positive flap position. I wonder if anyone else has experimented with this idea and can report results obtained. Used in conjunction with elevator trim, it would seem that you would be able to "adjust" your level flight attitude for least drag and best cruise fuel economy over a small range, by making this small change Since I have incorporated electric flap control, it would be a very easy adjustment to make when rigging the flaperon position. George CH-701 Kit (N73EX reserved) Getting close to finish. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 24/03/2008 3:03 PM ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:13 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Positive Flap Position I used 3 degrees negative on my Avid and it would get a long 14 knots faster than zero flap. Also I had 1 1/2 neg on my Kestrel 17 meter sailplane. Awesome difference in speeds.. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: MaxNr@aol.com To: Zenith-List@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 5:15 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Positive Flap Position Most competition sailplanes use reflex flaps and I heard that Maule uses 7 degree reflex in cruise. Bob Dingley ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid= aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:57 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD No tht position will not help in speed... Been there, done that :-( Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. 701 912S 168 hrs. Not brave enough to test the "no slats vortex" thing :-) Do not archive. Les Goldner wrote: Your flap actuator looks good Dirk, FYI, Michael warned me not to set the flaps up above the neutral position for cruise. Have you found that this really improves speed? Les --------------------------------- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dirk Slabbert Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:59 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD Les, there are some other versions on the list too, this is what I done. Full up is actually + 2 to 3 deg, for a slightly better cruise, down limit is 12 to 15 deg. The result remains to be seen........ All the best, Dirk. Piketberg SA ZU SUZ Stol 701 ( dual stick, wide body) ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Goldner To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:26 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Flap control solution and flying DVD My left arm is weak because of an old shoulder injury so I found it difficult extending the flaps on my new 701. It took two hands, so whenever I used the flaps I had to let go the stick, and the plane would start to dive before I regained control not good close to the ground! So I looked around for alternatives. I rejected electric flaps because I didnt want to increase the potential for failures (shorts, motor burn-outs, etc). Michael Heintz at Quality Sport Plane in Northern Ca. came to the rescue with the perfect solution, a flap handle with mechanical advantage. It is very easy to deploy the flaps using this device and even gives a few more degrees of flap if you need them (see two attached pictures). You can visit Quality Sport at http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_023.htm if you are interested in purchasing one. FYI, Michael and Quality Sport were very helpful during the construction of my 701, and Michael is an excellent 701 pilot. A back-country flying DVD, which was produced by Christopher Desmond, features flying by Michael (and Christopher). This DVD is really great! The photography and the STOL flying far exceed anything I have ever seen; Hollywood couldn't do better! Cameras were mounted on the wing, inside the cockpit, and looking up from the ground. Flights go into canyons, land on river banks, and fly from small gravel and grass strips. This video is truly spectacular. If youre interested, I recommend previewing the DVD on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbBb_IuT1_o or contact Christopher to order the full DVD at http://www.stol-adventures.com/. Regards, Les __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:09 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Drawing 6-LRO-1 From: "pavel569" I've just started to work on 601XL right wing. I found a note on drawing 6-W-7 "LONG RANGE TANK: NOSE RIB #4 IS REPOSITIONED SEE 6-LRO-1". I can't find that drawing anywhere. Is it a bug or am I missing something? -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172408#172408 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:28 PM PST US From: Jimmy Mathis Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 57 Msgs - 03/23/08 To ahontz I have the kit not just the stinkin rudder. Jimmy --- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be > found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes > the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the > plain ASCII version > of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a > generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-03-23&Archive=Zenith > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-03-23&Archive=Zenith > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sun > 03/23/08: 57 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 01:27 AM - XL forward fuselage top thickness > (Dr. Andrew Elliott) > 2. 04:07 AM - Re: CNC drilled pilot holes > (Larry H) > 3. 04:29 AM - Re: Bending 40 thou (Jugle) > 4. 04:56 AM - Used engine sources (James E. > Lanier) > 5. 05:09 AM - Re: Used engine sources > (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) > 6. 06:23 AM - Re: Used engine sources (John > Short) > 7. 06:36 AM - Re: Used engine sources (Clyde > Barcus) > 8. 06:38 AM - Re: CNC drilled pilot holes > (Jaybannist@cs.com) > 9. 06:49 AM - Re: XL forward fuselage top > thickness (Jaybannist@cs.com) > 10. 07:43 AM - Re: XL forward fuselage top > thickness (LarryMcFarland) > 11. 08:38 AM - Re: XL forward fuselage top > thickness (Tim Juhl) > 12. 09:12 AM - Re: 701: Replace stab brackets? > (ricklach) > 13. 09:49 AM - Re: Used engine sources (Gig > Giacona) > 14. 10:02 AM - Ray Allen Position Sensor for > Flaps (Mark Colbeck) > 15. 10:46 AM - Ray Allen Position Sensor for > Flaps (Craig Payne) > 16. 11:12 AM - Re: Ray Allen Position Sensor for > Flaps (Jaybannist@cs.com) > 17. 12:34 PM - 701 Flap control solution and > flying DVD (Les Goldner) > 18. 12:34 PM - Non-hinged ailerons with > autopilot (Ronald Steele) > 19. 12:57 PM - Re: XL forward fuselage top > thickness (Aerolitellc@aol.com) > 20. 01:08 PM - trade 601xl fuselage and tail kit > (Jimmy Mathis) > 21. 01:21 PM - Re: Non-hinged ailerons with > autopilot (Craig Payne) > 22. 02:16 PM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and > flying DVD (kmccune) > 23. 02:23 PM - Re: Used engine sources > (kmccune) > 24. 02:55 PM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and > flying DVD (rroberts) > 25. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Used engine sources > (n801bh@netzero.com) > 26. 03:39 PM - Re: Ray Allen Position Sensor for > Flaps (Terry Phillips) > 27. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: 701 Flap control solution > and flying DVD (Les Goldner) > 28. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: 701 Flap control solution > and flying DVD (Les Goldner) > 29. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: 701 Flap control solution > and flying DVD (Craig Payne) > 30. 04:53 PM - Re: Non-hinged ailerons with > autopilot (Bryan Martin) > 31. 05:22 PM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and > flying DVD (rroberts) > 32. 05:38 PM - Re: Non-hinged ailerons with > autopilot (Ronald Steele) > 33. 05:56 PM - Re: 701 Flap control solution and > flying DVD (kmccune) > 34. 06:15 PM - Re: trade 601xl fuselage and tail > kit (ashontz) > 35. 06:16 PM - Re: Ray Allen Position Sensor for > Flaps (ashontz) > 36. 06:17 PM - Re: Bending 40 thou (ashontz) > 37. 06:20 PM - Re: Bending 40 thou (ashontz) > 38. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: trade 601xl fuselage and > tail kit (Gary Boothe) > 39. 06:27 PM - Re: Bending 40 thou (Jugle) > 40. 06:27 PM - Re: Bending 40 thou (ashontz) > 41. 06:31 PM - Re: 5th Bearing - What is the > Purpose? (ashontz) > 42. 06:34 PM - Re: 5th Bearing - What is the > Purpose? (ashontz) > 43. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Bending 40 thou (Art > Olechowski) > 44. 06:51 PM - Re: Used engine sources > (kmccune) > 45. 07:19 PM - Re: 5th Bearing - What is the > Purpose? (kmccune) > 46. 07:30 PM - Re: 5th Bearing - What is the > Purpose? (Ron Lendon) > 47. 07:40 PM - Firewall spring back (lwinger) > 48. 08:35 PM - Re: CNC drilled pilot holes > (JohnDRead@aol.com) > 49. 08:56 PM - Re: CNC drilled pilot holes > (sundaypilot) > 50. 09:08 PM - jRe: Non-hinged ailerons with > autopilot (T. Graziano) > 51. 09:17 PM - NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New Plane > (ZodieRocket) > 52. 09:40 PM - Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New > Plane (Jay Maynard) > 53. 09:52 PM - Re: Firewall spring back (Larry > Winger) > 54. 09:56 PM - Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New > Plane (Craig Payne) > 55. 10:14 PM - Re: NOTAM : FLORIDA in a New > Plane (Craig Payne) > 56. 10:40 PM - Re: Re: CNC drilled pilot holes > (Terry Phillips) > 57. 11:02 PM - Re: Re: CNC drilled pilot holes > (Terry Phillips) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:27:50 AM PST US > From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" > Subject: Zenith-List: XL forward fuselage top > thickness > > Looking for experience & opinions - I have made a > pattern and am ready > to cut the forward fuselage top skin (6C1-4). I > find that the while the > plans show it to be .020, some of the kits and > factory built aircraft > have it as .025. > > I do plan to modify the sheet as many have, so that > the section between > the panel side angles, firewall and instrument panel > is removable via > lots of #8 screws, and the section where the canopy > rail goes is riveted > in place. > > Estimating the area as 4 sq.ft., the weight > difference between the .020 > skin and the .025 skin would be ~103.5 gms, which is > less than 4 ounces. > > SO... Anyone have any comments about whether to use > the .020 or the .025 > material, especially in terms of holding up in use > and maintenance? > > Thanks, > Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ > N601GE (reserved) > 601XL/TD, Corvair, building... > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > === message truncated == ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:37 PM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Zenith-List: Death of my Harley I have posted the reasons for removing my Harley from Skyhawg on my site (www.skyhawg.com. I'm not mad or seeking revenge or anything like that, but the facts are what they are. It is a lesson (a very expensive one) in doing one's homework. Draw you own conclusions if you are considering, or know anyone considering using a Harley in a 701. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:58 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drawing 6-LRO-1 I remember thinking the same thing. I'm guessing that what used to be a "Long Range Option" (hence LRO) has since become the more standard configuration. 6-W-7 is all about how to lay out your main and rear spars for the long range tanks. The standard tank equivalent is 6-K-0. Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair Scratchbuilding Tustin, CA On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 6:43 PM, pavel569 wrote: > > I've just started to work on 601XL right wing. I found a note on drawing > 6-W-7 "LONG RANGE TANK: NOSE RIB #4 IS REPOSITIONED SEE 6-LRO-1". > I can't find that drawing anywhere. Is it a bug or am I missing something? > > -------- > Pavel > CA > Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:08 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Firewall spring back Thanks, guys. I'm going with the KISS method that you've outlined. Making flat flanges that are later tweaked makes life a lot easier for me. I'm off to bend some metal. Larry Winger Do Not Archive On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:26 AM, cookwithgas wrote: > > Hi Larry: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_17_04_Firewall.JPG > > As you can see from the above picture it does not take superior > intelligence to build the firewall! > > Just do it like all the other formed parts and it will be fine. It stays > bent better since it is steel. > > Here are some more photos from the process: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_9_04_Firewall.JPG > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_9_04_FirewallCutting.JPG > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_17_04_FirewallParts.JPG > > Keep Snipping and Hammering, > > Scott Laughlin > www.cooknwithgas.com > Omaha, NE > 601XL/Corvair > Finished & Flying > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172274#172274 > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:41 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: brs chute handle Tracy, I put the BRS handle where I could easily install it and reach it quickly. It is at the bottom front of my seat near the flap handle. Since I also have a throttle quadrant in this area, I made certain the handle is oriented forward-aft and not cross-cockpit like the other controls. I also decided to leave the safety pin in the BRS handle since it can be removed easily if I have to deploy the chute. See pic attached. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 4:09 PM > To: zenith-list: matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: brs chute handle > > > can anyone tell me where they put the ativation handle in there 701? > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:15 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Seats: seat backs, cushions, and upholstery When I visited my tech counselor's hangar I checked out his RV-6 seatbacks. As noted by Klaus, they are lightweight and strong. As installed in the RV-6 they are easily adjustable. The location of the seatback bottom can be moved between 3 positions by removing a hinge pin. The angle at the top can be adjusted between three positions by a simple mechanism. The following Kitlog entry shows similar seatbacks for a RV-7 http://tinyurl.com/3b65uo Note the piano hinges on the bottom. The other half of the hinges can be seen in http://tinyurl.com/2t5g8j The seat bottom adjustment mechanism is apparent in the second entry. From Clayton's RV-6 drawings, the part no. for the seat back assembly is F-637. Klaus says they are reasonably priced. I have not yet bought anything from Van's, but I've heard they are willing to sell their product to non-RV builders. I think they look like an easy, light weight way to implement an adjustable seat in a 601. Terry At 04:07 PM 2/25/2008 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, > >Another possible choice are the seatbacks used in the RV6. We used that in my >plane. They are lightweight and strong. > >Happy building and flying, > >Klaus > >klaus@utdallas.edu >www.utdallas.edu/~klaus >>All, >> >>I'm working with the seats now too. I have found that there really are >>three parts to the seats. These are the cushions, the seat backs, and the >>upholstery. >> >>My manual suggests plywood as the seat back material. The fiberglass >>(reinforced plastic) solution as shown on the CH601.org web site appears to >>be a better solution. I guess I'll just have to learn to use fiberglass. Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.