Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:05 AM - Re: Re: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts (Aerolitellc@aol.com)
2. 03:49 AM - To Hinge or not to Hinge (Ianrat)
3. 05:43 AM - Canopy issues and VGs (Frank Derfler)
4. 06:16 AM - Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 06:36 AM - Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge (Dave Austin)
6. 07:22 AM - Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge (William Dominguez)
7. 07:48 AM - Monday Evening Chat Room (George Race)
8. 08:49 AM - Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge (Peter Chapman)
9. 08:49 AM - Re: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts (PatrickW)
10. 09:09 AM - [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? (Gig Giacona)
11. 09:13 AM - 701 Fixed Canard Wing (George Race)
12. 09:15 AM - Looking for a 701 amphib (Russ GREENWAY)
13. 09:27 AM - Re: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts (DaveG601XL)
14. 09:30 AM - Re: Looking for a 701 amphib (Gig Giacona)
15. 09:45 AM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (ashontz)
16. 09:46 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (ashontz)
17. 10:00 AM - Re: Elevator Limits (Cessna 172) (ashontz)
18. 10:48 AM - Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge (Juan Vega)
19. 10:50 AM - Re: 701 Fixed Canard Wing (John Marzulli)
20. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Fuel tanks (LarryMcFarland)
21. 10:56 AM - Corvair 701 STOLvair @ SNF (John Warren)
22. 11:13 AM - Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge (Juan Vega)
23. 11:29 AM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Gig Giacona)
24. 11:29 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (ashontz)
25. 11:34 AM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (ashontz)
26. 11:37 AM - Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge (Gig Giacona)
27. 11:52 AM - couple of questions (Bob McArdle)
28. 11:53 AM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Gig Giacona)
29. 12:00 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (ashontz)
30. 12:14 PM - Re: In-flight breakup (japhillipsga@aol.com)
31. 12:14 PM - Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? ()
32. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: deburring tool ()
33. 12:38 PM - Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!% ()
34. 12:38 PM - Re: couple of questions (Craig Payne)
35. 12:57 PM - Re: couple of questions (DaveG601XL)
36. 01:25 PM - Re: couple of questions (Bryan Martin)
37. 01:34 PM - Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!% (Bryan Martin)
38. 01:50 PM - Re: couple of questions (george may)
39. 02:22 PM - EAA videos (thesumak@aol.com)
40. 02:45 PM - Re: couple of questions (Craig Payne)
41. 03:09 PM - Re: couple of questions (Dan)
42. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Terry Phillips)
43. 04:06 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Tim Juhl)
44. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: Canopy issues and VGs (steve)
45. 05:06 PM - [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? (Gig Giacona)
46. 05:06 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (ashontz)
47. 05:16 PM - Re: couple of questions (Herb Heaton)
48. 05:40 PM - Rudder skin wrinkling kind of.... (Andrewlieser)
49. 05:42 PM - Re: Corvair 701 STOLvair @ SNF (rbjjr)
50. 05:45 PM - Re: couple of questions (Craig Payne)
51. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Larry H)
52. 05:48 PM - Dumb Rivet Question (rbjjr)
53. 05:55 PM - High wind limits for the 601 series? (LarryMcFarland)
54. 05:55 PM - Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? (Jay Maynard)
55. 06:08 PM - Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? (ernie)
56. 06:37 PM - Re: couple of questions (John Bolding)
57. 06:37 PM - Re: Rudder skin wrinkling kind of.... (Paul Riedlinger)
58. 06:37 PM - Re: Rudder skin wrinkling kind of.... (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
59. 06:47 PM - Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? (Larry H)
60. 06:59 PM - Re: Dumb Rivet Question (LRM)
61. 07:08 PM - Re: Dumb Rivet Question (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
62. 07:32 PM - Re: couple of questions (Paul Mulwitz)
63. 07:34 PM - Building Engine Mount (John Smith)
64. 07:37 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (Ron Lendon)
65. 08:07 PM - Re: High wind limits for the 601 series? (Ron Lendon)
66. 08:55 PM - Re: couple of questions (Craig Payne)
67. 09:38 PM - Re: High wind limits for the 601 series? (Stanley Challgren)
68. 10:15 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (austria)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts |
Whenever I order a kit from Zenith I ask them what "improvements" have you
made. I told them not to cut the side skins because I have templates I use to
make the cut outs that I know are correct. One area they cut out on the skin
that is a problem if your not careful is the lower front of the side skin
where it wraps around the fire wall. If you aren't careful and don't get the
firewall tight to the lower skin the side skin will be too short and the pre
punched holes of the lower skin will be even with the side skin lower edge and
there is nothing you can do to fix it except make a new skin and trim to fit.
I
told zenith they should leave extra there but I don't know if they did or
not but mine will come uncut.
A lot of the problems they seem to be having has stemmed from them changing
their motor mount it seems to me.
Jeff
In a message dated 3/31/2008 12:26:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
sonar1@cox.net writes:
I thought it was just me. Mine from the complete kit didn't fit. The cutout
was at 81.9 degrees instead of 81. I called Caleb at the factory and he said
that it was close enough.. I ended up redoing both side skins to the plans.
Is everyone else just forcing the center spar to fit??
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 2
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| Subject: | To Hinge or not to Hinge |
In the 601 XL kit I have the option to use the original aileron hinge or the newer
piano hinge.
Can any one tell the different qualities of both systems. I have conflicting reports
on both. One says the piano hinge is lighter to fly with.
Thank you
Ianrat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173839#173839
Message 3
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| Subject: | Canopy issues and VGs |
I fly out of Marathon in the Florida Keys. Probably 95% of my flying is
over water. Fortunately, the water is usually warm and shallow. But, I
know several people who fly out of here who have ditched, we talk about it
at EAA safety meetings, and I think about it a lot.
Initially, my thought was that if I had to ditch I would open the canopy
before ditching and hope that it flew forward and departed the airplane
during deceleration. Then, inadvertently, I flew twice with the passenger
side latch not securely closed to the second "click." (Always happens with
new passengers who don't understand the need for "two clicks" on their
side. Usually big guys who I can't see or reach behind to check the latch
myself. That one small opening increases wind noise and tries to suck their
shirts outside.
So, I put myself in the scenario of a dead engine, going through the restart
drill, looking for "thin water", dialing 7700, saying something on 121.5,
and trimming for best angle of glide. Now, as I'm trying to stall with the
wheels a few inches over the water I'm going to add noise, wind, a nose down
attitude, and tons of drag by popping the canopy? Something I've never
practiced? Duh! Popping the canopy is something that initially sounds
good, but after thinking about it my position is that it adds too many
unpracticed variables, (drag, changed attitude, noise, strange wind) to an
already stressful operation. It goes from smart to dumb.
A valuable lesson that EVERYONE who has ditched repeats over and over is
that you only take with you what you have on you. Yes, it gives you a sense
of well being to have those $11.95 orange life vests in the back. It makes
you feel good to have the crash axe "secured" (a heavy object
"secured"against the G-force of a ditching? Ha!) someplace. But, what the
folks who have been there and done that say is that if you don't have it on
your body, then you don't have it.
My passenger and I always wear the "suspender" type life preserver. (No,
they ain't heap!) I have a SPOT satellite personal tracker (yes, it is
waterproof) attached to it. On my belt I have a dive knife with a strong
heavily serrated blade. Other folks around here fly with a "belly bag"
holding a personal EPIRB, a big Leatherman, and whatever else makes them
comfy.
We have video of a news helicopter circling over a ditched airplane here.
The two pilots are in life preservers floating near the semi-submerged low
wing airplane. Even with orange life preservers, they looked awfully tiny
from the chopper. Many of us also include a visual strobe on the life
preserver.
One other thing we hear from the folks who have ditched is that anything in
the airplane will be on top of you. So, look at that nice storage space
behind the seats. See the spare engine oil, the tools, the cans of paint
and polish, the old plugs you can't throw away? They are all going to hit
you on the head and then sit in your lap.
I STILL have not come up with a good baggage compartment net for the 601XL.
HINT: If you want a little lucrative sideline, put together a 601XL
baggage net kit for retrofit. (It's too late to put it in during
construction!)
Having said all that, I will also say that flying over the waters of the
Florida Keys is a thrill you should all have! Smooth and beautiful!
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at
www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge |
Hi Lanrat,
I think the hingeless ailerons are a better choice, but either choice
will produce a nice airplane. The differences are relatively minor.
The hingeless ailerons are stiff. This is not a problem since it is
the force transferred from your pressure on the stick to the roll
performance of the airplane that counts rather than the movement of
the stick in the roll control direction. Under most circumstances
the stick doesn't actually move a noticeable amount.
The hinged ailerons probably provide more stick movement under some
conditions, but actually provide less performance. This is because
the hingeless ailerons are perfectly sealed while some air flow leaks
around and through the hinges. This seal becomes important when
considering the low speed roll performance of the plane.
Still, my main point is the decision is not a major one.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 03:46 AM 3/31/2008, you wrote:
>In the 601 XL kit I have the option to use the original aileron
>hinge or the newer piano hinge.
>
>Can any one tell the different qualities of both systems. I have
>conflicting reports on both. One says the piano hinge is lighter to fly with.
>
>Thank you
>
>
>Ianrat
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge |
I had HD wings for 5 years without the hinges - then 10 years with HDS wings
with hinges. Aileron control is somewhat lighter for small inputs and
significantly lighter for large inputs.
I found the hinges to be less tiring on long trips and gave the a/c
"better" balance between aileron and elevator control. I say "better" as
elevator control is very light compared with ailerons with either no hinge
or hinge.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge |
The hingeless are better aerodinamically speaking, slightly lighter in weight and
simpler to assemble. I chose the piano hinge option mostly because I can remove
the aileron without removing any rivets - removing the ailerons and flaps
simplify a lot of issues with trailering and storing the plane in its trailer
- but this is something most people won't need to do.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
In the 601 XL kit I have the option to use the original aileron hinge or the newer
piano hinge.
Can any one tell the different qualities of both systems. I have conflicting reports
on both. One says the piano hinge is lighter to fly with.
Thank you
Ianrat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173839#173839
Message 7
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| Subject: | Monday Evening Chat Room |
Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around
8:00 PM Eastern (Daylight Savings Time now in effect)
http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
CH-701 N73EX (Reserved)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge |
Like Dave Austin, I also found the hinged ailerons better in flight.
For very small roll control adjustments I didn't mind the hingeless.
But when on final approach, at lower speed, making bigger corrections
for crosswinds and gusts, there I really noticed the awkwardness of
having very light pitch control, yet heavier roll pressures. The roll
pressures were not "too heavy" on their own, but the control harmony
certainly could have been better. (This was on a 601 HD.)
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts |
sonar1@cox.net wrote:
> I thought it was just me. Mine from the complete kit didn't fit. The cutout was
at 81.9 degrees instead of 81. I called Caleb at the factory and he said that
it was close enough.. I ended up redoing both side skins to the plans. Is
everyone else just forcing the center spar to fit??
It's off by too much to force the spar to fit. Metal would have to be bent. Plus
there's two rivet lines on the skins leading up from the center spar that
will presumably be off, since they are parallel to the cutout.
Longerons are bolted to the motor mount, and they are level, so there's no question
of inaccuracy on that end.
I think I'll have to call Zenith and see what they say...
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173898#173898
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? |
Well Helen isn't going to leave here because she, to my knowledge, has never posted
here. She is one of the Moderators Yahoo LSA Group which is where she posted
both the message I quoted and the original message where she slandered AMD.
There is a difference in accepting an apology and believing anything she ever posts
again. She didn't just pass along a rumor. She stated that she talked to
the FAA and they confirmed that there was airworthiness issues. There weren't
any and the FAA didn't. She lied and considering her position with a competing
aircraft builder It's pretty obvious that she new exactly what she was doing.
I know if I were AMD just an apology isn't what I'd be looking for. Let's keep
in mind that her original post is going to be there for a long long time and
people tend, I've we've seen lately, to believe just about anything they read.
The possible damage to AMD and Zenith is impossible to calculate. But, I know
a couple of lawyers you would probably like to try.
Her statement, "While my intentions were benign, I inadvertently caused
considerable harm with my earlier posting." Seem pretty lame considering she asked
someone if they wanted to buy a plane from her in the same post where she
attacked AMD.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173900#173900
Message 11
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| Subject: | 701 Fixed Canard Wing |
I noticed today on the Zenith Screen Saver there were a pair of 701's shown
that have a Fixed Canard Wing near the front of the cowling.
Having experienced the difference a couple of small Canard Wings has made on
a local 182, gentler handling during stalls and better low landing speed
handling, I wonder if any of that would apply to the 701 as well.
Has anyone on the list had any experience with this concept in the 701? If
so what was learned about handling changes if any?
George
CH701 Kit (Almost Done)
N73EX (Reserved)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Looking for a 701 amphib |
Going again to Sun-n-fun to see if I can find a built 701 amphib to
possibly purchase. Anyone know of one for sale that may or not be at
Sun-n-fun this year? Have gone to the 'splash in' the last 3 years and
OshKosh water event last year and have yet to find a 701 participating
much less possibly for sale. Any help in finding one would be great.
Russ Greenway
West Point Lake
LaGrange, GA
kylepilot@msn.com
----- Original Message -----
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To: Zenith-List Digest List<mailto:zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 50 Msgs - 03/30/08
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Total Messages Posted Sun 03/30/08: 50
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:15 AM - Re: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
(James E. Lanier)
2. 04:38 AM - Sun-N-Fun (ZodieRocket)
3. 04:54 AM - Sun-N-Fun BBQ 08 (ZodieRocket)
4. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
(Bruce Johnson)
5. 06:34 AM - Fuel tanks (John Short)
6. 06:41 AM - Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? (Tommy Walker)
7. 07:09 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (leinad)
8. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION (Paul
Mulwitz)
9. 07:59 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (LarryMcFarland)
10. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
(steve)
11. 09:32 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (John Short)
12. 09:39 AM - Re: Moving rudder pedals forward (Grant Corriveau)
13. 09:50 AM - Canopy issues and VGs (Grant Corriveau)
14. 09:52 AM - Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
(Andrewlieser)
15. 09:56 AM - Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? (Robert Hansen)
16. 09:57 AM - Re: Moving rudder pedals forward (lwinger)
17. 10:09 AM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Jay Maynard)
18. 10:35 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (kmccune)
19. 11:08 AM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Craig Payne)
20. 11:13 AM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Dave Austin)
21. 11:27 AM - 701 (Micael W Wegner)
22. 11:55 AM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Bryan Martin)
23. 11:55 AM - Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
(LarryMcFarland)
24. 12:07 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Bryan Martin)
25. 12:15 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Terry Phillips)
26. 12:21 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Sabrina)
27. 01:27 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Tim Juhl)
28. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Bryan Martin)
29. 02:57 PM - Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!% (Ron
Lendon)
30. 03:08 PM - Tented or not?
(LHusky@aol.com<mailto:LHusky@aol.com>)
31. 03:11 PM - To whom it may concern (Roy Szarafinski)
32. 03:21 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (george may)
33. 03:23 PM - Re: To whom it may concern (Craig Payne)
34. 03:26 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Tim Juhl)
35. 03:36 PM - Re: Tented or not? (LarryMcFarland)
36. 03:46 PM - Re: Tented or not? (Leo Gates)
37. 03:52 PM - Re: Tented or not? (Bryan Martin)
38. 04:14 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (Bryan Martin)
39. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Canopy issues and VGs (John Bolding)
40. 04:24 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (James E. Lanier)
41. 04:59 PM - Re: Canopy issues and VGs (george may)
42. 06:18 PM - ZENITH 701 FOR SALE (Michael Gross)
43. 06:21 PM - Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
(Terry Turnquist)
44. 06:47 PM - Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
(Ronald Steele)
45. 07:48 PM - XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts (PatrickW)
46. 08:07 PM - Crank Update
(Aerolitellc@aol.com<mailto:Aerolitellc@aol.com>)
47. 08:15 PM - Re: ZENITH 701 FOR SALE (Micael W Wegner)
48. 08:19 PM - Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
(Andrewlieser)
49. 08:23 PM - Re: To whom it may concern (ZodieRocket)
50. 09:25 PM - Re: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts
(sonar1@cox.net<mailto:sonar1@cox.net>)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:15:12 AM PST US
From: "James E. Lanier"
<jim.lanier@charter.net<mailto:jim.lanier@charter.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
OK thanks. .I am a private pilot. Where can I find the sport pilot
regs?
Do you have a link?
(do not archive)
Jim
Jay Maynard wrote:
>
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 08:11:31PM -0400, James E. Lanier wrote:
>
>>
http://www.zenithair.com/misc/turbine-power.html<http://www.zenithair.com
/misc/turbine-power.html>
>> "No sports pilots can fly it. Jerry"
>> Question: If a sport pilot can't fly it...who can? I guess I don't
know
>> my regulations very well.
>>
>
> A private pilot or above.
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:38:42 AM PST US
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca<mailto:zodierocket@hsfx.ca>>
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun
HI Folks, I would like to here from all Florida residents that live in
Florida that are attending the Thursday evening Sun-N-Fun BBQ.
Could you please reply to
bbq@can-zacaviation.com<mailto:bbq@can-zacaviation.com> with your name
and
phone #
Thanks
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org<http://www.ch601.org/> /
www.ch701.com<http://www.ch701.com/> /
www.Osprey2.com<http://www.osprey2.com/>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 04:54:59 AM PST US
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca<mailto:zodierocket@hsfx.ca>>
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-N-Fun BBQ 08
Sun-N-Fun BBQ 08
Time is drawing near, please sign up now! I need to print the name
tags
Tomorrow and order the food for the event. Also, due to unforeseen
problems I find myself in need of volunteers, if your have a chance to
help out with the event please send me an
E-Mail at bbq@can-zacaviation.com<mailto:bbq@can-zacaviation.com>
This event is not an official Zenith function, it is by builders for
builders. With over 200 people the last two BBQ's it is the biggest
gathering of builders and owners. I am in need of help this year in
order to keep the BBQ going smoothly.
Thursday April 10th 2008
5pm - 8pm in the Campground
Jim Hoak's Campsite, same spot as last year.
Jabiru USA <http://www.usjabiru.com/<http://www.usjabiru.com/>> ,
Flightcrafters
<http://www.zenithdistributing.com/<http://www.zenithdistributing.com/>>
, AirFox , Sensornetics
<http://www.sensornetics.com/<http://www.sensornetics.com/>> and
William Wynne
<http://www.flycorvair.com/<http://www.flycorvair.com/>> have all
offered sponsorship for this
years event. Cummins Spinners
<http://www.cumminsspinners.com/<http://www.cumminsspinners.com/>> and
Homebuilthelp.com
<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>> have
donated prizes
for this years draw. Zenith Aircraft and Can-Zac Aviation have also
donated for a special gift to the first 90 builders that arrive at the
Sun-N-Fun BBQ pre-registered for the event. Don't miss out on this
special gift pre-register NOW.
Welcome to the 2008 BBQ sign up, Please take a moment to visit
http://www.ch601.org<http://www.ch601.org/>
<http://www.ch601.org/<http://www.ch601.org/>> or
http://www.ch701.com<http://www.ch701.com/>
<http://www.ch701.com/<http://www.ch701.com/>> for the sign up
sheet. This will be for your
name tag and will be your ticket for the cooks to provide you with a
great dinner. Plus this event is getting very large and I need an idea
on how much food to buy so that we feed everyone and don't run out!
Lets
make it bigger this year, I have more give a ways, the first 90 people
with a pre-registered name badge will receive a gift. Limit one per
family please.
Thanks cdngoose
Sun-N-Fun BBQ 07 Bill Bodin won the Raffle for the Made to order
Cummins
Spinner. This prize is custom made just for you! You tell us what prop
and engine you will be using and the Spinner will be made to order and
arrive at your door!
Don't Miss Sun-N-Fun 2008 BBQ
Thursday April 10th 2008
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 06:34:38 AM PST US
From: "Bruce Johnson"
<bjohnson@satx.rr.com<mailto:bjohnson@satx.rr.com>>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
www.sportpilot.org<http://www.sportpilot.org/>
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@ma
tronics.com>
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James E.
Lanier
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
<jim.lanier@charter.net<mailto:jim.lanier@charter.net>>
OK thanks. .I am a private pilot. Where can I find the sport pilot
regs?
Do you have a link?
(do not archive)
Jim
Jay Maynard wrote:
>
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 08:11:31PM -0400, James E. Lanier wrote:
>
>>
http://www.zenithair.com/misc/turbine-power.html<http://www.zenithair.com
/misc/turbine-power.html>
>> "No sports pilots can fly it. Jerry"
>> Question: If a sport pilot can't fly it...who can? I guess I don't
know
>> my regulations very well.
>>
>
> A private pilot or above.
>
Checked by AVG.
AM
Checked by AVG.
AM
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 06:34:38 AM PST US
From: "John Short"
<creativesigns@embarqmail.com<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com>>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel tanks
Currently working on my tanks for the 701 and noticed the beads called
for around the exterior perimeter. Does anyone know the purpose of the
beads. I don't have immediate access to a bead roller and noticed the
older tanks did not have this. Are they a necessity?
CREATIVE SIGNWORKS
1168 Byron Rd.
Kaufman, Tx 75142
John & Mindy Short
972-962-7464
Cell: 214-240-3815
www.creative-sign-works.com<http://www.creative-sign-works.com/>
creativesigns@embarqmail.com<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com>
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 06:41:16 AM PST US
From: "Tommy Walker"
<twalker@cableone.net<mailto:twalker@cableone.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD?
I am a little (no, maybe a lot) slow.
Shouldn't the acceptance of apology me made on the Yahoo forum?
I thought that's where the transgression and apology were made.
Otherwise,
the transgressor will not know.
But then, like I said..
:-)
Regards,
Do Not Archive
Tommy Walker in Alabama
N8701 - 40.5 Hrs.
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 07:09:11 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tanks
From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net<mailto:leinad@hughes.net>>
John,
I think those beads are to add some rigidity to spread the loads along
the seam,
otherwise the loads would get concentrated at the center. Instead of
purchasing
a fancy set of beading rollers I made wooden form blocks and squeezed
the
beeds into the metal. See the link below.
By the way I haven't finished my tanks yet, but the beeding blocks
worked well.
Dan Dempsey
http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us/zodiac/fuel/beedblocks.htm<http://daniel.d
empseyfamily.us/zodiac/fuel/beedblocks.htm>
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173648#173648<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173648#173648>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 07:39:50 AM PST US
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@ATT.NET<mailto:psm@ATT.NET>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
At 12:10 AM 3/30/2008, you wrote:
>OK thanks. .I am a private pilot. Where can I
>find the sport pilot regs? Do you have a link?
Hi Jim,
In this case, the important part of the FARs is
not about the sport pilot certificate, but the
definition of a Light-Sport airplane. Here is a
pasted copy of the relevant portion of FAR 1.1 Definitions:
___________
Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other
than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its
original certification, has continued to meet the following:
(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than=AD
(i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not
intended for operation on water; or
(ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft
intended for operation on water.
(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with
maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than
120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level.
(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not
more than 120 knots CAS for a glider.
(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady
flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing
devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at
the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff
weight and most critical center of gravity.
(5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than
two persons, including the pilot.
(6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered.
(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a
powered aircraft other than a powered glider.
(8) A fixed or autofeathering propeller system if a powered glider.
(9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering,
two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.
(10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.
(11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft
intended for operation on water or a glider.
(12) Fixed or retractable landing gear, or a
hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water.
(13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider.
___________
For this engine discussion, I believe a rotary
engine can be lumped into the class of
reciprocating engines (item 6 above) but any turbine engine would not
fit.
Paul
XL fuselage
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 07:59:58 AM PST US
From: LarryMcFarland
<larry@macsmachine.com<mailto:larry@macsmachine.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tanks
Hi John,
Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge. This type of weld is
inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the
sides. This is what puts a focus on
bending and stress at the edge weld. If you turn the ends around
flange
inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving
3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be
easier to make and have more weld area to resist bending. Putting
indent reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate
drumming
and flexure.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif<http://ww
w.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif>
Larry McFarland 601HDS at
www.macsmachine.com<http://www.macsmachine.com/>
John Short wrote:
> Currently working on my tanks for the 701 and noticed the beads
called
> for around the exterior perimeter. Does anyone know the purpose of
the
> beads. I don't have immediate access to a bead roller and noticed
the
> older tanks did not have this. Are they a necessity?
>
>
>
> CREATIVE SIGNWORKS
> 1168 Byron Rd.
> Kaufman, Tx 75142
> John & Mindy Short
> 972-962-7464
> Cell: 214-240-3815
> www.creative-sign-works.com<http://www.creative-sign-works.com/>
<http://www.creative-sign-works.com<http://www.creative-sign-works.com/>>
> creativesigns@embarqmail.com<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com>
<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com>
>
> *
> *
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 08:36:01 AM PST US
From: "steve"
<notsew_evets@frontiernet.net<mailto:notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
Please go to the EAA website and get the straight scoop. The EAA has
been in driving force behind the LSA since conception..
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: SPORT PILOT / ROTARY ENGINE QUESTION
At 12:10 AM 3/30/2008, you wrote:
OK thanks. .I am a private pilot. Where can I find the sport pilot
regs? Do you have a link?
Hi Jim,
In this case, the important part of the FARs is not about the sport
pilot certificate, but the definition of a Light-Sport airplane. Here
is a pasted copy of the relevant portion of FAR 1.1 Definitions:
___________
Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or
powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to
meet the following:
(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than=AD
(i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for
operation on water; or
(ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for
operation on water.
(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power
(VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric
conditions at sea level.
(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots
CAS
for a glider.
(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without
the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS
at
the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical
center of gravity.
(5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons,
including
the pilot.
(6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered.
(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft
other
than a powered glider.
(8) A fixed or autofeathering propeller system if a powered glider.
(9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if
a
gyroplane.
(10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.
(11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for
operation
on water or a glider.
(12) Fixed or retractable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft
intended for operation on water.
(13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider.
___________
For this engine discussion, I believe a rotary engine can be lumped
into the class of reciprocating engines (item 6 above) but any turbine
engine would not fit.
Paul
XL fuselage
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 09:32:55 AM PST US
From: "John Short"
<creativesigns@embarqmail.com<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tanks
Thanks for clearing that up, and all the good ideas. This list is the
greatest, just goes to show you don't have to know everything (or much
at
all) to build a plane. All you have to do is ask and somebody out
there will
know the answer.
Thanks guys
John (Scratch building 701)
Kaufman, Tx
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland"
<larry@macsmachine.com<mailto:larry@macsmachine.com>>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tanks
>
> Hi John,
> Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge. This type of weld is
> inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the
sides.
> This is what puts a focus on
> bending and stress at the edge weld. If you turn the ends around
flange
> inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving
> 3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be
easier
> to make and have more weld area to resist bending. Putting indent
> reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate drumming
> and flexure.
>
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif<http://ww
w.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif>
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at
www.macsmachine.com<http://www.macsmachine.com/>
>
> John Short wrote:
>> Currently working on my tanks for the 701 and noticed the beads
called
>> for around the exterior perimeter. Does anyone know the purpose of
the
>> beads. I don't have immediate access to a bead roller and noticed
the
>> older tanks did not have this. Are they a necessity?
>>
>> CREATIVE SIGNWORKS
>> 1168 Byron Rd.
>> Kaufman, Tx 75142
>> John & Mindy Short
>> 972-962-7464
>> Cell: 214-240-3815
>> www.creative-sign-works.com<http://www.creative-sign-works.com/>
<http://www.creative-sign-works.com<http://www.creative-sign-works.com/>>
>> creativesigns@embarqmail.com<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com>
<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com<mailto:creativesigns@embarqmail.com>
>
>> *
>> *
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 09:39:22 AM PST US
From: Grant Corriveau
<grant.corriveau@TELUS.NET<mailto:grant.corriveau@TELUS.NET>>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Moving rudder pedals forward
I built the HDS with the longer cabin mod., moved my rudder pedals as
far forward as possible (while maintaining differential braking), and
set the seat pan as low as it would go yet clear the fuselage bottom.
I also modified my brake cylinder installations to base them on the
floor rather than on the rudder pedal arms as they originally were.
The beauty of that system is it not only removes un-needed stress on
the rudder pedal tubes, but it creates a better brake pedal
geometry. When a foot is at full rudder (forward position), the top
of the brake pedal rotates to a more vertical position, making
differential braking easier to add, and taking less pedal movement
towards the firewall.
I didn't move the heel support and haven't noticed a problem with my
size 12s ;-) ... your situation may vary .... Many HD/HDS builders
have added some strengthening along the baggage shelf edge because
that is a common place that was getting damaged from inadvertant
loads being placed there .. (i.e. it's a natural place to grab while
getting in and out...)
For XL builders I think all these mods are incorporated into that
aircraft...?
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF 601HDS
CAM100
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 09:50:41 AM PST US
From: Grant Corriveau
<grant.corriveau@TELUS.NET<mailto:grant.corriveau@TELUS.NET>>
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
> I had always toyed with the idea of an ejector canopy & emergency
> chute or whole
> aircraft chute.
The original "flip-flop" 601 canopy had several cases of shedding the
canopy in flight due to the hinge/latch combo mechanism. I don't
know of any that damaged the tail plane, and the aircraft all
remained flyable as far as I know. In one case, the pilot was
enroute to Oshkosh. He landed, bought a motorcycle helmet with
visor, and finished the trip in the "open cockpit."
With a forward-hinged canopy I find it hard to imagine a scenario
where it would shed in flight. Has anyone had an unlatching problem
in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts? I imagine it opens
a few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.
My only concern would be how it might move with power and attitude
changes - that it might get into a fugoid of some sort and distract
the pilot.
My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over
accident - especially in water. I'm going to install a set of
"Feathers" VGs which reportedly reduces landing speeds by about 10
knots. That just might be the difference between staying upright vs.
going over onto it's back.
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF HDS
CAM100
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 09:52:13 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
From: "Andrewlieser"
<Andrewlieser@gmail.com<mailto:Andrewlieser@gmail.com>>
So I've been reading this board for over a year now and several other
homebuilders
boards for that matter. The most common piece of advice given to new
builders
seems to be measure twice cut once. A great piece of advice for this
expensive
hobby I think. Yet time after time I would see posts from new
builders
that would indicate that they were not paying attention and cut wrong
somewhere
in the initial stages of their project. I would read these and think
that
will never happen to me because I have read these posts time and time
again and
I definitely will measure twice and cut only once.
Well I started work on my rudder kit this weekend after 2 weeks worth
of building
an excellent workbench and creating a very functional workspace. All
my tools
are in and I had inventoried every piece. I opened the plans for the
3rd
or 4th time to look over them yet again and decided it was time to
make the first
cut. I marked off my 10mm on the double angle and drew the lines down
to
the corner of each piece. I measured them twice and made sure they
were perfect.
Then after a couple of practice snips with my new shears I made the
cut....perfection.
So I did it again and again and again until I got what I thought
was a perfect 27 degrees on my double angle. Sitting back and
admiring my work
I noticed a difference in what my piece looked like and what the
pictures
in front of me showed on the next page. Panic set in. Not on the
very first
piece I thought so I checked my piece again and sure enough WRONG. My
measurements
were perfect my cuts perfect my interpretation of what I read WRONG.
I
now have 2 pieces of scrap angle fashioned into 27 degree points on
the ends of
each. I had made the cut on both sides of the double angle so it now
looks
like a freakin spear. But the lessoned has been learned and I will
reorder my
parts on monday from Zenith and start fresh by the end of this week.
My advice
to new builders like myself is for each piece....READ twice..ENVISION
twice..Measure
twice..CUT once!
--------
Andrew Lieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173684#173684<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173684#173684>
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 09:56:57 AM PST US
From: Robert Hansen <stol701@yahoo.com<mailto:stol701@yahoo.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD?
Larry you have this right on. It would be so unchristian of anybody
not to accept
an apoligy and I am very impressed with Helen for stepping up to the
plate.
No reason to leave here Helen.
Rob 701 builder
----- Original Message ----
From: Larry H <skyridersbn@yahoo.com<mailto:skyridersbn@yahoo.com>>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 2:09:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD?
To error is human. To admit it takes a really BIG PERSON. If she is
more than
willing to admit her error, apologize for it, why on Earth shouldn't I
(we) take
her apology and accept it? To do otherwise, is being narrow-minded
and shallow.
I'm sure she has learned a very valuable lesson (haven't we all
sometime
in our life?) and will not want to repeat anything she can't prove in
the future.
Rumors can and usually are vicious, which she saw how wild this had
gotten
out of hand so quickly. It takes a really great person to see the
error
of their ways and admit it. Let's move forward now and learn from the
lessons
of this. Helen, I for one wished you would remain a part of this
group. I accept
your apology. Does anyone else agree with me?
Regards,
Larry Hursh
CH601XL (N601LL Reserved)
Gig Giacona
<wr.giacona@suddenlink.net<mailto:wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>> wrote:
Since this Helen woman's post in the Yahoo group that started all this
got posted
here I though it was fitting to share the post
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 09:57:57 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Moving rudder pedals forward
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger@gmail.com<mailto:larrywinger@gmail.com>>
Great responses!
Here was my solution. Because I wanted to retain the opportunity to
re-rig the
plane for a "normal sized" pilot, I remade my cabin floor and pedal
bearing channel.
I added 40mm to the front edge of the channel (195mm instead of 155mm)
and added an additional 3/16" hole 33mm forward of the existing
central pedal
bearing holes to allow forward adjustment by 1.3 inches. Pictures
attached.
No change to the heel support.
Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses. This list really saved
the day.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair from scratch
Control surfaces and wings complete.
Bottom rear fuselage and firewall done
Working on cabin floor
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger<http://www.mykitlog.com/lwinger>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173687#173687<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173687#173687>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_pedal_bearing_channel_383.jpg<http
://forums.matronics.com//files/new_pedal_bearing_channel_383.jpg>
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pedal_bearing_in_forward_position_198.
jpg<http://forums.matronics.com//files/pedal_bearing_in_forward_position_
198.jpg>
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 10:09:22 AM PST US
From: Jay Maynard
<jmaynard@conmicro.com<mailto:jmaynard@conmicro.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 09:46:39AM -0700, Grant Corriveau wrote:
> With a forward-hinged canopy I find it hard to imagine a scenario
> where it would shed in flight. Has anyone had an unlatching problem
> in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts? I imagine it opens
> a few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.
> My only concern would be how it might move with power and attitude
> changes - that it might get into a fugoid of some sort and distract
> the pilot.
AMD's POH says the canopy will trail in the slightly open position,
but the
aircraft will remain controllable. It recommends slowing down and
landing at
the first opportunity, and not allowing oneself to get distracted from
flying the airplane.
> My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over
> accident - especially in water.
I'm not sure the risk in water is substantially more than on
land...but I do
wonder how to get out of the aircraft if it's on its back with the
canopy
intact, or largely so.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
http://www.conmicro.com<http://www.conmicro.com/>
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com<http://jmaynard.livejournal.com/>
http://www.tronguy.net<http://www.tronguy.net/>
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 10:35:00 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel tanks
From: "kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net<mailto:kmccune@somtel.net>>
Amen to that!
Kevin
John75142 wrote:
> Thanks for clearing that up, and all the good ideas. This list is
the
> greatest, just goes to show you don't have to know everything (or
much at
> all) to build a plane. All you have to do is ask and somebody out
there will
> know the answer.
>
>
> Thanks guys
>
> John (Scratch building 701)
> Kaufman, Tx
>
>
> ---
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the
things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173694#173694<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173694#173694>
________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
Time: 11:08:28 AM PST US
From: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com<mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
> Has anyone had an unlatching problem in flight and can tell us how
the
canopy reacts? I imagine it opens a few inches and simply floats at
that
position in the slip-stream.
Back in December Clive Richards sent out the attached report from the
UK PFA
magazine of an anonymous pilot testing his (pre-XL?) 601 with an open
canopy. He attached a safety cord and intentionally unlatched his
canopy.
Quoting:
"I commenced the test at 3500 ft and 80 knots cruise. I secured the
safety
cord to the cleat at my elbow with about 1 ft of slack and released
the
catch. The canopy rapidly popped up about 1 ft at the trailing edge as
expected. I then slowly paid out the cord from the cleat and allowed
the
canopy to rise to a steady state. The canopy adopted a position where
the
base of the canopy settled to an angle of about 35 degrees to the
airflow.
Full lateral and pitch control could be maintained but forward speed
dropped
to about 60 knots and despite increase to full throttle descent was
about
300 ft/min. An unexpected problem now presented itself. I was
descending
quickly and all the strength I could muster with my right arm was only
just
sufficient to pull the cord down and cleat it progressively. Possibly
the
slot effect at the front of the canopy open at the front increased the
lift
(and additionally the gas struts require a cord load of 15 lbs
static). I
finally, exhausted, got it down to about 6 inches and returned to."
Craig again. I had a similar experience in an Evektor SportStar. This
LSA
resembles the 601XL: low wing, front-hinged bubble canopy. One
difference is
that the canopy is split behind the seats. There is a cross-bar behind
the
seats:
www.evektoramerica.com/SportStarPlus.htm<http://www.evektoramerica.com/Sp
ortStarPlus.htm>
I was flying left-seat with my instructor. The canopy popped while we
were
in the pattern. I would estimate that the gap was well over a foot.
While
the instructor flew I tried to close the canopy. I wrapped my arm
around the
cross-bar and used all my weight and strength and could not close the
canopy. At best I think I got the gap down to 6-8 inches. Evektor
redesigned
the latch the next year.
I believe the upward force was generated by lift and not wind under
the
canopy as it did not decrease as I closed the gap.
-- Craig
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 11:13:17 AM PST US
From: "Dave Austin"
<daveaustin2@primus.ca<mailto:daveaustin2@primus.ca>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
Hi Grant,
Re the feathers VGs. My experience is that stall is reduced by approx
5
mph, not 10 knots. My HDS 912 now stalls somewhere between 40 and 45
mph IAS INDICATED. What the actual AS is I really don't know. Would
that help on a water flop-in? Possibly.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
Time: 11:27:12 AM PST US
From: "Micael W Wegner"
<cowboymike@centurytel.net<mailto:cowboymike@centurytel.net>>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701
HI WOULD LIKE TO BUY A 701 STOL.... OUT RIGHT OR TRADE SOME FOR MY PA
22
20 THANKS MIKE...
________________________________ Message 22
____________________________________
Time: 11:55:00 AM PST US
From: Bryan Martin
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net<mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
I carry a small hatchet in the cabin just in case. It has also come in
handy for digging the crud out out of tie-down padeyes and driving
tie-
down stakes.
On Mar 30, 2008, at 1:04 PM, Jay Maynard wrote:
>
>> My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over
>> accident - especially in water.
>
> I'm not sure the risk in water is substantially more than on
> land...but I do
> wonder how to get out of the aircraft if it's on its back with the
> canopy
> intact, or largely so.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 23
____________________________________
Time: 11:55:01 AM PST US
From: LarryMcFarland
<larry@macsmachine.com<mailto:larry@macsmachine.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
Welcome Andrew,
I'd recommend you go to the drawings and remake the part you mess up.
As
you become proficient at this, you'll find it's easier to not repeat
mistakes by
reading the drawings. You'll save a lot of money in the end and know
a
lot more of the build processes. This is only the first of many parts
you'll
wait for, so you might as well get some tools that will save you a lot
of time and their cost ten times over.
Don't feel badly because we all have had do-overs, ,,,,,, and in time,
you could even become a scratch-builder.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at
www.macsmachine.com<http://www.macsmachine.com/>
do not archive
Andrewlieser wrote:
>
> Sitting back and admiring my work I noticed a difference in what my
piece looked
like and what the pictures in front of me showed on the next page.
Panic
set in. Not on the very first piece I thought so I checked my piece
again and
sure enough WRONG. My measurements were perfect my cuts perfect my
interpretation!
> of what I read WRONG. I now have 2 pieces of scrap angle
fashioned into 27
degree points on the ends of each. I had made the cut on both sides
of the double
angle so it now looks like a freakin spear. But the lessoned has been
learned
and I will reorder my parts on monday from Zenith and start fresh by
the
end of this week. My advice to new builders like myself is for each
piece....READ
twice..ENVISION twice..Measure twice..CUT once!
>
> --------
> Andrew Lieser
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173684#173684<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173684#173684>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 24
____________________________________
Time: 12:07:27 PM PST US
From: Bryan Martin
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net<mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
I have had one latch come loose in flight a few of times, never both.
In all cases, it occurred on takeoff. When one latch lets loose, that
side of the canopy lifts a couple of inches and makes a lot of noise
but nothing too startling. On one occasion, I was able to re-latch the
canopy after pulling the throttle to idle and slowing down, the other
times I just went around the pattern and landed so I could close it.
My problem was that I put some weatherstripping under the canopy to
cut down on drafts. In very cold weather, the stripping got so stiff,
it was hard to latch the canopy. A couple of times, I thought it was
latched but one side came loose after takeoff. I have since corrected
this problem.
On Mar 30, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Grant Corriveau wrote:
> The original "flip-flop" 601 canopy had several cases of shedding
> the canopy in flight due to the hinge/latch combo mechanism. I
> don't know of any that damaged the tail plane, and the aircraft all
> remained flyable as far as I know. In one case, the pilot was
> enroute to Oshkosh. He landed, bought a motorcycle helmet with
> visor, and finished the trip in the "open cockpit."
>
> With a forward-hinged canopy I find it hard to imagine a scenario
> where it would shed in flight. Has anyone had an unlatching problem
> in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts? I imagine it opens
> a few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.
> My only concern would be how it might move with power and attitude
> changes - that it might get into a fugoid of some sort and distract
> the pilot.
>
> My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over
> accident - especially in water. I'm going to install a set of
> "Feathers" VGs which reportedly reduces landing speeds by about 10
> knots. That just might be the difference between staying upright
> vs. going over onto it's back.
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 25
____________________________________
Time: 12:15:14 PM PST US
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net<mailto:ttp44@rkymtn.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
One solution for exiting an overturned 601 is an escape tool, e.g.,
http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm<http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm>
mounted securely in a place where you can reach it when your hanging
upside
down by your seatbelts. It's like a fire extinguisher--you hope you'll
never need it, but, if you do need it, you'll be glad you got it.
Meanwhile, I hope that Grant will post his before and after
performance
data after he installs his VGs. To reduce stall speed, Grant might
also
consider wing root fairings. Klaus Truemper reported an 8 kts (9mph)
stall
speed reduction (and other performance improvements) when he installed
wing
root fairings.
http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/hidden_drag.pdf<http://www.utdall
as.edu/~klaus/Airplane/hidden_drag.pdf>
Terry
At 02:07 PM 3/30/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Grant,
>Re the feathers VGs. My experience is that stall is reduced by
approx 5
>mph, not 10 knots. My HDS 912 now stalls somewhere between 40 and 45
mph
>IAS INDICATED. What the actual AS is I really don't know. Would
that
>help on a water flop-in? Possibly.
>Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
>At 12:04 PM 3/30/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>>AMD's POH says the canopy will trail in the slightly open position,
but the
>>aircraft will remain controllable. It recommends slowing down and
landing at
>>the first opportunity, and not allowing oneself to get distracted
from
>>flying the airplane.
>>
>> > My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a
nose-over
>> > accident - especially in water.
>>
>>I'm not sure the risk in water is substantially more than on
land...but I do
>>wonder how to get out of the aircraft if it's on its back with the
canopy
>>intact, or largely so.
>
>
>Terry Phillips
>ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
>Corvallis MT
>601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, &
ailerons
>are done; working on the wings
>http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________ Message 26
____________________________________
Time: 12:21:40 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy issues and VGs
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris@msn.com<mailto:chicago2paris@msn.com>>
Hello Mr. Corriveau!
Issue 1: Preventing accidental canopy release. My work around,
independent canopy
latch release rings.
Issue 2: What to do once the canopy is released in flight?
A. Use a cord to pull it down. (Is the pilot strong enough?)
B. Incorporate small winglets on the rear of the canopy to push down
on the rear
of the canopy in combination with a lower front air seal mounted on
the fuselage
to prevent/disrupt a large rush of air under the canopy's leading edge
upon
release. The winglets are not strong enough to push down a canopy
opened
a few inches , but they do, combined with the lower air seal, keep the
canopy
down rattling against the latch. Not enough to relatch the canopy,
but enough
to be ignored until after landing. Remember, the struts actually help
hold the
canopy down so long as they are not extended very far.
The FAA teased me once they saw the "new" canopy. They claimed that
I now had
a bi-plane. I reminded them that one set gives lift, and one set
pushes. You
would not think a few square inches of material combined with a little
foam
rubber would do much.
The original intent was to hold the rear of the canopy down while it
slid back
4" off its rails during ejection, allowing the air to pick up the
front of the
canopy and launch the canopy up and over the airframe. The winglets
take the
place of the factory handles and are also used to open and close the
canopy.
P.S. I had never thought to work through a nose over in water. Thank
you. I will
add canopy ejection to my ditching procedures.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173715#173715<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173715#173715>
________________________________ Message 27
____________________________________
Time: 01:27:53 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy issues and VGs
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net<mailto:juhl@avci.net>>
RE: Ditching - A fixed gear aircraft will likely turn over upon
contact with the
water and then return to a nose down attitude while air seeps out of
the wings
and fuselage. While unlatching the canopy prior to ditching might be
a good
idea, I don't think I would jettison it. It will offer some
protection to
the occupants in the event of a controlled ditching. If unlatched,
once the plane
semi-rights itself it should be easy to open. If the airplane sinks
rapidly
the bubble of air within will lift open an unlatched canopy.
The pilot of a piper cherokee that ditched in Lake Michigan had time
to step out
on the wing and use his cell phone to call 911. Unfortunately he
didn't have
a life jacket and perished after the plane sank into Lake Michigan,
about 3
miles off Milwaukee. I saw underwater video of it showing it simply
sitting upright
on the bottom of the lake.
Tim
do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173723#173723<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173723#173723>
________________________________ Message 28
____________________________________
Time: 02:25:39 PM PST US
From: Bryan Martin
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net<mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy issues and VGs
I remember that incident. NTSB Identification: CHI05FA180. He went
down in Lake Michigan just before midnight on April 25. A life jacket
probably wouldn't have saved him but it would at least have made it
possible to recover his body. If you go into that lake at that time
of year, if you aren't rescued in about half an hour, you probably
won't survive. That water is COLD. Even in the summer, it doesn't get
very warm. If you don't have a life raft, your chances of surviving a
ditching in any the great lakes is pretty slim if you don't get
rescued quickly.
On Mar 30, 2008, at 4:24 PM, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> RE: Ditching - A fixed gear aircraft will likely turn over upon
> contact with the water and then return to a nose down attitude while
> air seeps out of the wings and fuselage. While unlatching the
> canopy prior to ditching might be a good idea, I don't think I
> would jettison it. It will offer some protection to the occupants
> in the event of a controlled ditching. If unlatched, once the plane
> semi-rights itself it should be easy to open. If the airplane sinks
> rapidly the bubble of air within will lift open an unlatched canopy.
>
> The pilot of a piper cherokee that ditched in Lake Michigan had time
> to step out on the wing and use his cell phone to call 911.
> Unfortunately he didn't have a life jacket and perished after the
> plane sank into Lake Michigan, about 3 miles off Milwaukee. I saw
> underwater video of it showing it simply sitting upright on the
> bottom of the lake.
>
> Tim
> do not archive
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 29
____________________________________
Time: 02:57:38 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net<mailto:rlendon@comcast.net>>
Andrew,
Larry has given you good advice, it seems the only kind he has, to try
making the
part yourself. Persistence and patience are what makes these dreams
come true.
I am building an XL but the methods are probably the same for the
rudder skin.
Here is a link the where I started with a rectangle of aluminum. Made
the skin
then trimmed it to the frame.
http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&ca
tegory=0&log=9949&row=463<http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php
?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=9949&row=463>
Enjoy,
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon<http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173739#173739<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173739#173739>
________________________________ Message 30
____________________________________
Time: 03:08:25 PM PST US
From: LHusky@aol.com<mailto:LHusky@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Tented or not?
I am going to order a canopy soon and I am wondering what different
people
think of tinted and non tinted canopies. I live in a dry place with
over 300
VFR days. I plan to fly mostly day VFR, but a night VFR flight is not
out of
the question. I do plan to fly a lot of cross country flights. Can
anyone
with a tinted canopy, tell me how they see at night? I plan to order
from
Todd's Canopy's if that makes any difference.
Larry Husky
601XL / O-200
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on
AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=
aolhom00030000000001<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-strome
r?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001>)
________________________________ Message 31
____________________________________
Time: 03:11:24 PM PST US
From: Roy Szarafinski <rvickski@yahoo.com<mailto:rvickski@yahoo.com>>
Subject: Zenith-List: To whom it may concern
For those who expressed interest in my work I'll be at
Sun and Fun for the week. For your amusement and
pleasure, I'll bring 2 cases, one together and one
apart and a dual plug head. It will have to be a
tailgate thing since I'm not an exhibitor, unless
someone takes me under their wing. My cell is
5176102307 I'll know the campsite location on the 7th
of april.
For those folks that are unaware and curious, see my
website:
roysgarage.com
Thank you
Roy
________________________________ Message 32
____________________________________
Time: 03:21:31 PM PST US
From: george may <gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM<mailto:gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM>>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
"A couple of times, I thought it was latched but one side came loose
after
takeoff. I have since corrected this problem."OK Bryan--how did you
fix the
problem?
I also had one latched side of the canopy unlatch on takeoff a couple
of ti
mes. Just slowed down ,stayed in the pattern and landed to relatch it.
Also
probably the result of weatherstripping.
>From a safety point of view I do not want to put and lockable devices
insid
e that can not be accessed from the outside in case of the need for
externa
l help.
George May
601XL 912s
_________________________________________________________________
Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real people making a real
difference
. Learn more.
________________________________ Message 33
____________________________________
Time: 03:23:55 PM PST US
From: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com<mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: To whom it may concern
Roy, I won't make it to SnF but I hope to be at Oshkosh. Will you be
there
too?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@ma
tronics.com>
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roy
Szarafinski
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 4:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: To whom it may concern
For those who expressed interest in my work I'll be at
Sun and Fun for the week. For your amusement and
pleasure, I'll bring 2 cases, one together and one
apart and a dual plug head. It will have to be a
tailgate thing since I'm not an exhibitor, unless
someone takes me under their wing. My cell is
5176102307 I'll know the campsite location on the 7th
of april.
For those folks that are unaware and curious, see my
website:
roysgarage.com
Thank you
Roy
________________________________ Message 34
____________________________________
Time: 03:26:03 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy issues and VGs
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net<mailto:juhl@avci.net>>
Bryan is absolutely correct. The stupid thing is that he ran out of
gas about
three miles short of land. A lesson to us all.
I've spent a lot of years scuba diving in the great lakes and produced
a number
of video documentaries and two books on shipwrecks. A friend of mine
survived
the sinking of a freighter in a storm in 1966 and endured 38 hours of
freezing
temps on an open raft clad only in boxer shorts, a peacoat and
lifejacket.
He was the only survivor of a crew of 29, but he survived. I try to
avoid crossing
large expanses of water when the water temps are below 60 and when I
do
cross I pick my routes carefully, grab plenty of altitude, wear my
lifejacket
and have a communications plan. Those of us who live in Michigan have
to deal
with water when traveling any direction but south :-)
Tim
do not archive
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173748#173748<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173748#173748>
________________________________ Message 35
____________________________________
Time: 03:36:27 PM PST US
From: LarryMcFarland
<larry@macsmachine.com<mailto:larry@macsmachine.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tented or not?
Larry,
I'd be careful to buy a UV coated canopy in nothing darker than a
light
champagne color. The tinted canopy would be amplified by sunglasses
that are more often than
not polarized. This could become an uncomfortable situation in less
than great lighting. Think internal canopy cover, retractable or a
good
full brim hat first.
And GPS with autopilots aren't that good yet!
Larry McFarland 601HDS at
www.macsmachine.com<http://www.macsmachine.com/>
LHusky@aol.com<mailto:LHusky@aol.com> wrote:
> I am going to order a canopy soon and I am wondering what different
> people think of tinted and non tinted canopies. I live in a dry
place
> with over 300 VFR days. I plan to fly mostly day VFR, but a night
VFR
> flight is not out of the question. I do plan to fly a lot of cross
> country flights. Can anyone with a tinted canopy, tell me how they
> see at night? I plan to order from Todd's Canopy's if that makes
any
> difference.
>
> Larry Husky
> 601XL / O-200
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________ Message 36
____________________________________
Time: 03:46:49 PM PST US
From: Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com<mailto:leo@zuehlfield.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tented or not?
My canopy is tented and is a blessing on a sunny day. Night flight is
not an issue.
Do not archive - covered several times before.
--
Leo Gates
N601Z - CH601hds TDO
Rotax 912UL
LHusky@aol.com<mailto:LHusky@aol.com> wrote:
> I am going to order a canopy soon and I am wondering what different
> people think of tinted and non tinted canopies. I live in a dry
place
> with over 300 VFR days. I plan to fly mostly day VFR, but a night
VFR
> flight is not out of the question. I do plan to fly a lot of cross
> country flights. Can anyone with a tinted canopy, tell me how they
> see at night? I plan to order from Todd's Canopy's if that makes
any
> difference.
>
> Larry Husky
> 601XL / O-200
________________________________ Message 37
____________________________________
Time: 03:52:27 PM PST US
From: Bryan Martin
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net<mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tented or not?
I don't have any problem flying at night with mine. It's not much
different than driving at night in a car with standard tinted
windshield.
On Mar 30, 2008, at 6:01 PM, LHusky@aol.com<mailto:LHusky@aol.com>
wrote:
> I am going to order a canopy soon and I am wondering what different
> people think of tinted and non tinted canopies. I live in a dry
> place with over 300 VFR days. I plan to fly mostly day VFR, but a
> night VFR flight is not out of the question. I do plan to fly a lot
> of cross country flights. Can anyone with a tinted canopy, tell me
> how they see at night? I plan to order from Todd's Canopy's if that
> makes any difference.
>
> Larry Husky
> 601XL / O-200
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 38
____________________________________
Time: 04:14:09 PM PST US
From: Bryan Martin
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net<mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
I removed the weatherstripping from between canopy frame and the cabin
side rails that was making it difficult to close. Now it closes
easily. I temporarily put some weather stripping on the side rails so
that it butts up against the canopy. This seals out the drafts
without requiring the strip to be squeezed in the gap. I am still
looking for a more permanent solution. I am thinking of a weather
strip that attaches to the inner side of canopy rail with a flap that
sticks down and inward that will butt up against the cabin side rail.
Air leaks out through the gap so the suction should help this
arrangement seal up.
On Mar 30, 2008, at 6:17 PM, george may wrote:
> "A couple of times, I thought it was
> latched but one side came loose after takeoff. I have since
corrected
> this problem."
>
>
> OK Bryan--how did you fix the problem?
>
> I also had one latched side of the canopy unlatch on takeoff a
> couple of times. Just slowed down ,stayed in the pattern and landed
> to relatch it. Also probably the result of weatherstripping.
> >From a safety point of view I do not want to put and lockable
> devices inside that can not be accessed from the outside in case of
> the need for external help.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 39
____________________________________
Time: 04:21:01 PM PST US
From: "John Bolding"
<jnbolding1@teleshare.net<mailto:jnbolding1@teleshare.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy issues and VGs
Many yrs ago I was on base to 36 at OSH when a guy called in a mayday
while
over the lake, they gave him a straight in on 27 , I couldn't let
that pass
so I extended my base, climbing and turning toward the end of 27 so I
might
see him highlighted against the water. Picked him up about 10 seconds
before he hit. boats were moving toward him before he even hit the
water,
all 4 folks got out safely. they had gone non-stop from New York in a
Cessna of some variety and got within 400 yrds of the shore before the
engine ran dry of gas. That's REALLY making an entrance.
John
Bryan is absolutely correct. The stupid thing is that he ran out of
gas
about three miles short of land. A lesson to us all.
________________________________ Message 40
____________________________________
Time: 04:24:19 PM PST US
From: "James E. Lanier"
<jim.lanier@charter.net<mailto:jim.lanier@charter.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
While getting my first look at a factory built XL, the instructor's
first words about the craft were that the latch is a poor design and
problematic.
The discussion of the latch on this list tend to confirm this as a
problem.
When I get to that point in my build, I will certainly look into this
and possibly find a simple and reliable solution. I recall one
aircraft
that I have flown where you reach in through the window vent to get
access to the internal latch. (Kind of like an old MG :) )
Jim
Grant Corriveau wrote:
>>
>> I had always toyed with the idea of an ejector canopy & emergency
>> chute or whole
>>
>> aircraft chute.
>>
>
> The original "flip-flop" 601 canopy had several cases of shedding
the
> canopy in flight due to the hinge/latch combo mechanism. I don't
know
> of any that damaged the tail plane, and the aircraft all remained
> flyable as far as I know. In one case, the pilot was enroute to
> Oshkosh. He landed, bought a motorcycle helmet with visor, and
> finished the trip in the "open cockpit."
>
> With a forward-hinged canopy I find it hard to imagine a scenario
> where it would shed in flight. Has anyone had an unlatching problem
> in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts? I imagine it opens
a
> few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.
My
> only concern would be how it might move with power and attitude
> changes - that it might get into a fugoid of some sort and distract
> the pilot.
>
> My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over
> accident - especially in water. I'm going to install a set of
> "Feathers" VGs which reportedly reduces landing speeds by about 10
> knots. That just might be the difference between staying upright
vs.
> going over onto it's back.
>
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF HDS
> CAM100
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________ Message 41
____________________________________
Time: 04:59:45 PM PST US
From: george may <gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM<mailto:gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM>>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy issues and VGs
Bryan
Thanks for the reply--been looking at some similar fixes myself. Will
let y
ou know if they are successful
George may
do not archive
From: bryanmmartin@comcast.netTo<mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.netTo>:
zenith-list@matronics.comSubject<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.comSubject>
: Re: Zen
ith-List: Canopy issues and VGsDate: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:07:32 -0400I
remov
ed the weatherstripping from between canopy frame and the cabin side
rails
that was making it difficult to close. Now it closes easily. I
temporarily
put some weather stripping on the side rails so that it butts up
against th
e canopy. This seals out the drafts without requiring the strip to be
sque
ezed in the gap. I am still looking for a more permanent solution. I
am thi
nking of a weather strip that attaches to the inner side of canopy
rail wit
h a flap that sticks down and inward that will butt up against the
cabin si
de rail. Air leaks out through the gap so the suction should help this
arra
ngement seal up.
On Mar 30, 2008, at 6:17 PM, george may wrote:
"A couple of times, I thought it was latched but one side came loose
after
takeoff. I have since corrected this problem."OK Bryan--how did you
fix the
problem? I also had one latched side of the canopy unlatch on
takeoff a
couple of times. Just slowed down ,stayed in the pattern and landed to
rela
tch it. Also probably the result of weatherstripping.>From a safety
point o
f view I do not want to put and lockable devices inside that can not
be acc
essed from the outside in case of the need for external help.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
_________________________________________________________________
Test your Star IQ
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR<htt
p://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR>
________________________________ Message 42
____________________________________
Time: 06:18:28 PM PST US
From: Michael Gross
<gross_michael@HOTMAIL.COM<mailto:gross_michael@HOTMAIL.COM>>
Subject: Zenith-List: ZENITH 701 FOR SALE
Listers,
Hard to believe it, but I will be selling my CH-701 I completed, test
flew,
and have been flying since Dec 2006. I have about 70 hours on it
(probabl
y more like 75, but I need to log my last couple of flights). I have
stand
ard VFR instrumentation (airspeed, A/I, D/G, Alt, elect Turn and bank,
and
VSI) along with compass, standard rotax engine and fuel guages, elect.
trim
, nav/strobes, and elt. I have a panel mount radio and transponder.
Plane
is ready for paint by the new owner.
I am selling to start my new project: a cozy mk IV. There are a
couple of
pics also on my ad in barnstormers. If anyone is interested please
contac
t me off list.
Do Not Archive
Mike Gross
gross_michael@hotmail.com<mailto:gross_michael@hotmail.com>
_________________________________________________________________
How well do you know your celebrity gossip?
http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A<http://origi
nals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A>
________________________________ Message 43
____________________________________
Time: 06:21:44 PM PST US
From: Terry Turnquist <ter_turn@yahoo.com<mailto:ter_turn@yahoo.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
Sometimes it helps to make a "part" out of paper or thin cardboard,
fit it and
than
you'll have a true visual picture of what it should look like. Mirror
images can
be very confusing at times, too. Especially for those of us
conceptually challenged!
Good Luck.
Terry Turnquist
601XL-Plans
St. peters, MO
So I've been reading this board for over a year now and several other
homebuilders
boards for that matter. The most common piece of advice given to new
builders
seems to be measure twice cut once. A great piece of advice for this
expensive
hobby I think. Yet time after time I would see posts from new
builders
that would indicate that they were not paying attention and cut wrong
somewhere
in the initial stages of their project. I would read these and think
that
will never happen to me because I have read these posts time and time
again and
I definitely will measure twice and cut only once.
Well I started work on my rudder kit this weekend after 2 weeks worth
of building
an excellent workbench and creating a very functional workspace. All
my tools
are in and I had inventoried every piece. I opened the plans for the
3rd
or 4th time to look over them yet again and decided it was time to
make the first
cut. I marked off my 10mm on the double angle and drew the lines down
to
the corner of each piece. I measured them twice and made sure they
were perfect.
Then after a couple of practice snips with my new shears I made the
cut....perfection.
So I did it again and again and again until I got what I thought
was a perfect 27 degrees on my double angle. Sitting back and
admiring my work
I noticed a difference in what my piece looked like and what the
pictures
in front of me showed on the next page. Panic set in. Not on the
very first
piece I thought so I checked my piece again and sure enough WRONG. My
measurements
were perfect my cuts perfect my
interpretation!
of what I read WRONG. I now have 2 pieces of scrap angle fashioned
into 27 degree
points on the ends of each. I had made the cut on both sides of the
double
angle so it now looks like a freakin spear. But the lessoned has been
learned
and I will reorder my parts on monday from Zenith and start fresh by
the
end of this week. My advice to new builders like myself is for each
piece....READ
twice..ENVISION twice..Measure twice..CUT once!
--------
Andrew Lieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173684#173684<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173684#173684>
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________ Message 44
____________________________________
Time: 06:47:47 PM PST US
From: Ronald Steele <rsteele@rjsit.com<mailto:rsteele@rjsit.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
And mark everything with name orientation rib number etc. And keep
some "eraser" (alcohol etc) handy to removed "typos". I only mention
this because I'm terrible about it. But everything goes smoother
with proper markings. Don't ask how I know this, the answer would
take way too long!
Ron
601XL wings
do not archive
On Mar 30, 2008, at 9:18 PM, Terry Turnquist wrote:
> Sometimes it helps to make a "part" out of paper or thin cardboard,
> fit it and than
> you'll have a true visual picture of what it should look like.
> Mirror images can be very confusing at times, too. Especially for
> those of us conceptually challenged!
> Good Luck.
>
> Terry Turnquist
> 601XL-Plans
> St. peters, MO
>
> Andrewlieser <Andrewlieser@gmail.com<mailto:Andrewlieser@gmail.com>>
wrote:
>
> So I've been reading this board for over a year now and several
> other homebuilders boards for that matter. The most common piece of
> advice given to new builders seems to be measure twice cut once. A
> great piece of advice for this expensive hobby I think. Yet time
> after time I would see posts from new builders that would indicate
> that they were not paying attention and cut wrong somewhere in the
> initial stages of their project. I would read these and think that
> will never happen to me because I have read these posts time and
> time again and I definitely will measure twice and cut only once.
> Well I started work on my rudder kit this weekend after 2 weeks
> worth of building an excellent workbench and creating a very
> functional workspace. All my tools are in and I had inventoried
> every piece. I opened the plans for the 3rd or 4th time to look
> over them yet again and decided it was time to make the first cut.
> I marked off my 10mm on the double angle and drew the lines down to
> the corner of each piece. I measured them twice and made sure they
> were perfect. Then after a couple of practice snips with my new
> shears I made the cut....perfection. So I did it again and again
> and again until I got what I thought was a perfect 27 degrees on my
> double angle. Sitting back and admiring my work I noticed a
> difference in what my piece looked like and what the
>
>
________________________________ Message 45
____________________________________
Time: 07:48:32 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com<mailto:pwhoyt@yahoo.com>>
Fitting the fuselage side skins...
Everything appears to fit except for the pre-cut slots in the fuselage
side skins
(where the wings insert into the center spar). Either the center spar
is at
an incorrect angle, or the slot in the side skins are at the wrong
angle. The
rest of the holes in the skins look dead-on, and the longerons are
level.
It's off by quite a bit. Pictures here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/XLSideSkins<http://picasaweb.goo
gle.com/Patrick.Hoyt/XLSideSkins>
I measure the angle between the center spar and the floor at 77
degrees, and the
angle between the center spar and the upper longerons is 81 degrees.
Does that
match what you guys have...?
Anybody else ran into anything like this...?
Thanks,
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173802#173802<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173802#173802>
________________________________ Message 46
____________________________________
Time: 08:07:27 PM PST US
From: Aerolitellc@aol.com<mailto:Aerolitellc@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Crank Update
Good evening,
I have just updated the Crankshaft status page on the web site and
also
added the ANS report at the bottom of the page. It can be viewed at
_www.aeroliteproducts.com/Crankshaft_Status.php_
(http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/Crankshaft_Status.php<http://www.aerolit
eproducts.com/Crankshaft_Status.php>)
.
Jeff
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_
(http://www.aeroliteproducts.com<http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/>)
502-644-8123
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on
AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=
aolhom00030000000001<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-strome
r?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001>)
________________________________ Message 47
____________________________________
Time: 08:15:25 PM PST US
From: "Micael W Wegner"
<cowboymike@centurytel.net<mailto:cowboymike@centurytel.net>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZENITH 701 FOR SALE
ID LIKE TO BUY IT....MIKE WEGNER OSCEOLA WI.... 715 294 4296 CALL OR
WRITE BACK TO ME
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Gross
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:12 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: ZENITH 701 FOR SALE
Listers,
Hard to believe it, but I will be selling my CH-701 I completed,
test
flew, and have been flying since Dec 2006. I have about 70 hours on
it
(probably more like 75, but I need to log my last couple of flights).
I
have standard VFR instrumentation (airspeed, A/I, D/G, Alt, elect Turn
and bank, and VSI) along with compass, standard rotax engine and fuel
guages, elect. trim, nav/strobes, and elt. I have a panel mount radio
and transponder. Plane is ready for paint by the new owner.
I am selling to start my new project: a cozy mk IV. There are a
couple of pics also on my ad in barnstormers. If anyone is interested
please contact me off list.
Do Not Archive
Mike Gross
gross_michael@hotmail.com<mailto:gross_michael@hotmail.com>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
How well do you know your celebrity gossip? Talk celebrity
smackdowns
here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
3/29/2008 5:02 PM
________________________________ Message 48
____________________________________
Time: 08:19:43 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%
From: "Andrewlieser"
<Andrewlieser@gmail.com<mailto:Andrewlieser@gmail.com>>
Thanks to everyone! I do intend to eventually make some parts myself
and also
think that it would help my understanding of the part but I decided to
go with
the rudder as a kit as kind of a baby step. The cardboard is a great
idea, I
have a lot of that laying around to. I will replace the alcohol I
have around
with the kind that I can use as an eraser (probably a better idea
anyway).
I appreciate all of the responses with advice both as posts and
personal messages.
I tried not to let it bug me, the fact that it was the very first
part,
but it was a little discouraging initially. Hearing that others have
made similar
mistakes is very comforting though. I will be back in the saddle
again in
the middle of this week hopefully with better result and will post
some pictures
of the miscut pieces on my website to help others avoid the same
mistake.
All these responses only solidify in my mind that I chose the right
project
with a great network of experienced builders that I WILL need advice
from to finish
my aircraft! Thanks again to everyone!
Andrew Lieser
601XL Builder (and aluminum scrap collecter) :)
--------
Andrew Lieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173810#173810<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173810#173810>
________________________________ Message 49
____________________________________
Time: 08:23:28 PM PST US
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca<mailto:zodierocket@hsfx.ca>>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: To whom it may concern
Roy, you are welcome to bring it to the Zenith BBQ on Thursday
evening.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org<http://www.ch601.org/> /
www.ch701.com<http://www.ch701.com/> /
www.Osprey2.com<http://www.osprey2.com/>
-----Original Message-----
For those who expressed interest in my work I'll be at
Sun and Fun for the week. For your amusement and
pleasure, I'll bring 2 cases, one together and one
apart and a dual plug head. It will have to be a
tailgate thing since I'm not an exhibitor, unless
someone takes me under their wing. My cell is
5176102307 I'll know the campsite location on the 7th
of april.
For those folks that are unaware and curious, see my
website:
roysgarage.com
Thank you
Roy
________________________________ Message 50
____________________________________
Time: 09:25:43 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts
From: "sonar1@cox.net<mailto:sonar1@cox.net>"
<sonar1@cox.net<mailto:sonar1@cox.net>>
I thought it was just me. Mine from the complete kit didn't fit. The
cutout was
at 81.9 degrees instead of 81. I called Caleb at the factory and he
said that
it was close enough.. I ended up redoing both side skins to the plans.
Is everyone
else just forcing the center spar to fit??
do not archive
Fred Sanford Ca. N9601 99%
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173823#173823<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173823#173823>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: XL: Center Spar vs Side Skin Cutouts |
Patrick,
So are you saying that if you measure the angle between the side skin cutout and
the top edge that it is not 81 degrees?? My pre-cut side skin was correct at
81 degrees (purchased 02/07).
I know that ZAC has mis-cut or mis-drilled some stuff, but only because of other
poster's comments. In my personal case, everything from ZAC seems to have been
made correctly. In cases where I found problems similar to yours, it ended
up that I was the one at fault. After I reviewed all drawing characteristics,
I could point to where I screwed up and was glad to have had something, like
a pre-cut, to point out my mistake. If I was a scratch builder, I would have
scrapped out a lot more aluminum than I did as a kit builder. Triple check your
measurements and angles to the drawing on both your spar placement and the
pre-cut skin. Pay particular attention to the cabin floor angle. This caused
me problems.
My biggest problem with ZAC was where they had made changes to the product, incorporated
them on my hardware, but did not update the drawing. This caused many
a head scratch until I was able to get a hold of ZAC and they told me of the
change.
Good luck on a resolution,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, all major assemblies complete. Have run the engine and am starting final
assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173905#173905
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for a 701 amphib |
Your best bet might be to find a 701 and convert it.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173907#173907
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
What if both of your arms are broken?
[quote="Terry Phillips"]One solution for exiting an overturned 601 is an escape
tool, e.g.,
http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm (http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm)
mounted securely in a place where you can reach it when your hanging upside down
by your seatbelts. It's like a fire extinguisher--you hope you'll never need
it, but, if you do need it, you'll be glad you got it.
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done;
working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ (http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/)
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173909#173909
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|
So do the beads really need to be along the edge, or would an X pattern in the
center of the large panel be sufficient, kind of like on the side of a WWII Jeep
fuel can?
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> Hi John,
> Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge. This type of weld is
> inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the
> sides. This is what puts a focus on
> bending and stress at the edge weld. If you turn the ends around flange
> inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving
> 3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be
> easier to make and have more weld area to resist bending. Putting
> indent reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate drumming
> and flexure.
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> John Short wrote:
>
> > Currently working on my tanks for the 701 and noticed the beads called
> > for around the exterior perimeter. Does anyone know the purpose of the
> > beads. I don't have immediate access to a bead roller and noticed the
> > older tanks did not have this. Are they a necessity?
> >
> >
> >
> > CREATIVE SIGNWORKS
> > 1168 Byron Rd.
> > Kaufman, Tx 75142
> > John & Mindy Short
> > 972-962-7464
> > Cell: 214-240-3815
> > www.creative-sign-works.com
> > creativesigns@embarqmail.com
> > *
> > *
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173911#173911
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Limits (Cessna 172) |
I've rented various 152s of which some of them had 40 degrees of flap and others
were only 30 degrees. Neither were aerobats or anything. I figured it was just
some design change that had occurred from one year to the next.
Tim Juhl wrote:
> The increase in gross weight was one of the reasons cited. Another was the problem
some pilots experienced if they initiated a go-around with full flaps extended.
There was also the long standing concern about full flaps blanking the
tail in a forward slip although I've intentionally tried to make that happen
with no success.
>
> One of the things that surprised me was in checking aileron control movement
was that you used to be able to turn the wheel 90 to either side while on the
1985 model you were hitting the stops at maybe 50. Now - I will admit I did not
take a protractor and measure actual aileron deflections so maybe the change
wasn't that extreme. Anyone who has flown a very early 172 and a 1985 or later
model knows that they are two very different machines.
>
> Tim
> do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173914#173914
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| Subject: | Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge |
the skin hinge as I call it is a little stiffer, but mostly you have to hold the
stick in the direction you want to turn or it flexes back to neutral. The hinge
is like any other plane, turn and the plane will continue to turn. The skin
hingless system has a neutral deflection memory. Thats it.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ianrat <ianrat@powerup.com.au>
>Sent: Mar 31, 2008 6:46 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: To Hinge or not to Hinge
>
>
>In the 601 XL kit I have the option to use the original aileron hinge or the newer
piano hinge.
>
>Can any one tell the different qualities of both systems. I have conflicting reports
on both. One says the piano hinge is lighter to fly with.
>
>Thank you
>
>
>Ianrat
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173839#173839
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fixed Canard Wing |
Those 182's probably had the Peterson Performance parts, or were sold as
"Wrens"
The total package is sold today "turn-key" style as the Peterson Katmai.
Link: http://www.katmai-260se.com/katmai.html
With the Peterson mods, those canards are movable.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:07 AM, George Race <mykitairplane@mrrace.com>
wrote:
> I noticed today on the Zenith Screen Saver there were a pair of 701's
> shown that have a Fixed Canard Wing near the front of the cowling.
> Having experienced the difference a couple of small Canard Wings has made
> on a local 182, gentler handling during stalls and better low landing speed
> handling, I wonder if any of that would apply to the 701 as well.
>
> Has anyone on the list had any experience with this concept in the 701?
> If so what was learned about handling changes if any?
>
> George
> CH701 Kit (Almost Done)
> N73EX (Reserved)
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 20
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Hi Andy,
If you were to retain the turned-out edge-weld, then the bead parallel
with the weld would be an advantage. This would keep stresses from
concentrating
at the center of each straight section edge weld. If the welds were
done flange in, there is little advantage to having more than long
diagonal dimples to
constrain drumming. To X across isn't wise either as drumming can focus
stress at the center of the X and make cracking more likely at center of X.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
ashontz wrote:
>
> So do the beads really need to be along the edge, or would an X pattern in the
center of the large panel be sufficient, kind of like on the side of a WWII
Jeep fuel can?
>
>
> larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>> Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge. This type of weld is
>> inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the
>> sides. This is what puts a focus on
>> bending and stress at the edge weld. If you turn the ends around flange
>> inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving
>> 3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be
>> easier to make and have more weld area to resist bending. Putting
>> indent reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate drumming
>> and flexure.
>> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif
>>
>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>
>> John Short wrote:
>>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Corvair 701 STOLvair @ SNF |
Hi all,
The Corvair powered 701 will fly into Sun n fun for display. I plan on
arriving on Monday, weather permitting, and remain for the entire show.
Due to the number of aircraft Zenith will be displaying the 701 will be
out on the experimental flightline. Stop in and ask at the Zenith
display as they will know where I will be parked. I will be out under
the wing from about 9 am until the flightline is closed for the airshow.
Probably some in the evening too. I look forward to seeing all that are
interested and answering your questions.
-Gus
www.flywithgus.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge |
Not true, if done right it is not any more aerodynamic than hingeless.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 31, 2008 10:18 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: To Hinge or not to Hinge
>
>The hingeless are better aerodinamically speaking, slightly lighter in weight
and simpler to assemble. I chose the piano hinge option mostly because I can remove
the aileron without removing any rivets - removing the ailerons and flaps
simplify a lot of issues with trailering and storing the plane in its trailer
- but this is something most people won't need to do.
>
>William Dominguez
>Zodiac 601XL plans
>Miami Florida
>http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
>
>
>In the 601 XL kit I have the option to use the original aileron hinge or the newer
piano hinge.
>
>Can any one tell the different qualities of both systems. I have conflicting reports
on both. One says the piano hinge is lighter to fly with.
>
>Thank you
>
>
>Ianrat
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173839#173839
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
Well then you're screwed but only slightly more screwed than if you are stuck in
your airplane sitting right-side up in your hanger with the canopy closed and
with both arms broken.
ashontz wrote:
> What if both of your arms are broken?
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173929#173929
Message 24
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Thanks. I'm doing flange out edge welds. I welded the long flange so far. I guess
I'll go back and try to put a bead along the edge.
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> Hi Andy,
> If you were to retain the turned-out edge-weld, then the bead parallel
> with the weld would be an advantage. This would keep stresses from
> concentrating
> at the center of each straight section edge weld. If the welds were
> done flange in, there is little advantage to having more than long
> diagonal dimples to
> constrain drumming. To X across isn't wise either as drumming can focus
> stress at the center of the X and make cracking more likely at center of X.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> ashontz wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > So do the beads really need to be along the edge, or would an X pattern in
the center of the large panel be sufficient, kind of like on the side of a WWII
Jeep fuel can?
> >
> >
> > larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> >
> > > Hi John,
> > > Tanks are usually welded at a mating raw edge. This type of weld is
> > > inclined to be weakest when fuel pushes at the end and bulges the
> > > sides. This is what puts a focus on
> > > bending and stress at the edge weld. If you turn the ends around flange
> > > inward and place them inside the wrap portion of the tank, leaving
> > > 3/16-inch radius out, a weld placed at the wrapper and bend will be
> > > easier to make and have more weld area to resist bending. Putting
> > > indent reinforcement is always good for large areas to eliminate drumming
> > > and flexure.
> > > http://www.macsmachine.com/images/headertank/full/tankbends.gif
> > >
> > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> > >
> > > John Short wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173928#173928
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
I'm just thinkin' I like the sound of some sort of door a lot better than a bubble
canopy. A few months ago I had a bad back and could hardly get out of my car,
I can't imagine trying to fumble around with two broken arms trying to work
a swing stick to break the canopy.
Anybody ever watch World Most Shocking Videos? How about that guy trying to get
out of the flaming dirt-track race buggy. That didn't look like too much fun,
and his problem was his seatbelt was jammed or something like that.
Gig Giacona wrote:
> Well then you're screwed but only slightly more screwed than if you are stuck
in your airplane sitting right-side up in your hanger with the canopy closed
and with both arms broken.
>
>
>
>
>
> ashontz wrote:
> > What if both of your arms are broken?
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173931#173931
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: To Hinge or not to Hinge |
The folks that sell gap seals will be surprised to hear that. The stopping of airflow
through the hinge is what those things do.
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> Not true, if done right it is not any more aerodynamic than hingeless.
>
> Juan
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173932#173932
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cessna1_164.gif
Message 27
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| Subject: | couple of questions |
1-How does wiring from the rear of the fuselage get to the panel?(Under
the torque tube-?) 2-What do you use to attach the brake lines to the
gear leg? 3-Do the brake lines run under the bottom longerons and then
enter the fuselage near the pedals or go up the gear leg and into the
fuselage then where? I have a long way to go.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
Ashontz,
What if both of your legs are broken? What if a CH47 doesn't see you on the ramp
and lands on top of you? What if gravity were to suddenly reverse itself and
you were pushed into the deep reaches if interplanetary space?
I'm really beginning to think that the 601 might not be the plane for you. I've
not noticed one feature of the aircraft you like. Not that I can think of any
aircraft available at any price that would be as safe as you seem to require.
ashontz wrote:
> I'm just thinkin' I like the sound of some sort of door a lot better than a bubble
canopy. A few months ago I had a bad back and could hardly get out of my
car, I can't imagine trying to fumble around with two broken arms trying to work
a swing stick to break the canopy.
>
> Anybody ever watch World Most Shocking Videos? How about that guy trying to get
out of the flaming dirt-track race buggy. That didn't look like too much fun,
and his problem was his seatbelt was jammed or something like that.
>
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
> > Well then you're screwed but only slightly more screwed than if you are stuck
in your airplane sitting right-side up in your hanger with the canopy closed
and with both arms broken.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ashontz wrote:
> > > What if both of your arms are broken?
> > >
> >
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173933#173933
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
Gig, you're right, the CH601XL isn't the plane for me, the AS601XL-HD is the plane
for me. :) That's the beauty of homebuilding.
Gig Giacona wrote:
> Ashontz,
>
> What if both of your legs are broken? What if a CH47 doesn't see you on the ramp
and lands on top of you? What if gravity were to suddenly reverse itself and
you were pushed into the deep reaches if interplanetary space?
>
> I'm really beginning to think that the 601 might not be the plane for you. I've
not noticed one feature of the aircraft you like. Not that I can think of any
aircraft available at any price that would be as safe as you seem to require.
>
>
>
> ashontz wrote:
> > I'm just thinkin' I like the sound of some sort of door a lot better than a
bubble canopy. A few months ago I had a bad back and could hardly get out of
my car, I can't imagine trying to fumble around with two broken arms trying to
work a swing stick to break the canopy.
> >
> > Anybody ever watch World Most Shocking Videos? How about that guy trying to
get out of the flaming dirt-track race buggy. That didn't look like too much
fun, and his problem was his seatbelt was jammed or something like that.
> >
> >
> > Gig Giacona wrote:
> > > Well then you're screwed but only slightly more screwed than if you are stuck
in your airplane sitting right-side up in your hanger with the canopy closed
and with both arms broken.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ashontz wrote:
> > > > What if both of your arms are broken?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173936#173936
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: In-flight breakup |
Flying a XL would require a "world class" contortionist for such. Afraid for us
we have to land first.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 10:17 am
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: In-flight breakup
Well I can say that I did this "manuver" in my Cessna 172 on a long X country once.?
Cessna has a trim wheel and after a minor adjustment, the aircraft flew
very well by its ownself.
That flight was one of my most memorable.
Now married I am not allowed to go on X countries.
S......
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Johnson
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: In-flight breakup
I recently came across this NTSB report of a crash of a certified aircraft which
appears to have lost a wing in flight, probably as a result of the pilot attempting
unapproved maneuvers. Has anyone tried this in a 601?
?
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 001212X18632&key=1
?
Dave Johnson
?
CH601XL
?
PLEASE do not archive!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? |
No, no, no!----She screwed up, and said something not factual. Nobody
on this list has ever done that before! Lightning is shooting up from
the ground, and great boulders are falling from the sky! Cats and dogs
are dancing with each other in the streets! (news and pictures at 11:
00) Quick, gather the villagers with torches, and storm the castle! Ev
en if she doesn't live there, storm the castle anyway! Retribution!!!
We must all panic before it is too late! We must mill around, shout an
d scream, and overreact to vent our respective spleens. Those of us, t
hat is, who don't have spleen vents spring loaded to the open position
This could lead to someone else misquoting a torque table, or giving
the wrong size AN bolt, or (gasp!) using the wrong color Scotchbrite.
Where will it all end?? Oh, the humanity! (Sorry guys, I couldn't re
sist.) Helen, bless her, recognized an error, and apologized, and it s
hould be over and done with. Shall we continue building, now?=0A
=0APaul Rodriguez=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A ----- Original Message --
--- =0A From: Larry H<mailto:skyridersbn@yahoo.com> =0A To: ze
nith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com> =0A Sent
: Saturday, March 29, 2008 3:09 PM=0A Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [S
port_Aircraft] Re: AMD?=0A=0A=0A To error is human. To admi
t it takes a really BIG PERSON. If she is more than willing to admit
her error, apologize for it, why on Earth shouldn't I (we) take her ap
ology and accept it? To do otherwise, is being narrow-minded and shal
low. I'm sure she has learned a very valuable lesson (haven't we all
sometime in our life?) and will not want to repeat anything she can't
prove in the future. Rumors can and usually are vicious, which she sa
w how wild this had gotten out of hand so quickly. It takes a really
great person to see the error of their ways and admit it. Let's move
forward now and learn from the lessons of this. Helen, I for one wish
ed you would remain a part of this group. I accept your apology. Doe
s anyone else agree with me? =0A=0A Regards, =0A=0A Larr
y Hursh=0A CH601XL (N601LL Reserved)=0A=0A Gig Giacona <wr.
giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:=0A --> Zenith-List message posted
by: "Gig Giacona" =0A=0A Since this Helen woman's post in th
e Yahoo group that started all this got posted here I though it was fi
tting to share the post =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A-------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------=0A Be a better friend, newshound, and =0A
=======================
= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.ma
=======================
=======================
= --> http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
=======================
=======================
=======================
=====0A=0A
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: deburring tool |
Actually, the key to using a vixon (vixen?) file is to hone the teeth
edges against a smooth surface before using, so that there are flats a
t the bottom of the teeth, it should look like this side view: \_\-\_\
-\_\-\_\. Consider the lines all connected, and you get the idea. It
can be done with valve grinding compound on a sheet of glass. The one
I bought from Airparts doesn't leave longitudinal scratches.=0A
=0APaul Rodriguez=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: n8
5ae<mailto:n85ae@yahoo.com> =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mail
to:zenith-list@matronics.com> =0A Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 3:3
0 PM=0A Subject: Zenith-List: Re: deburring tool=0A=0A=0A
85ae@yahoo.com>>=0A=0A I took an old file, broke it in half and
then using the grinder ground all=0A corners round. I Attached a
handle to it, and a couple fast passes along =0A a row of drilled
holes and they are all deburred at once. The key is NO=0A sharp ed
ges, as you don't want scratches. It does produce scuffs=0A betwee
n the holes. But these go away when you paint prep it anyway.=0A
=0A On sheet you only need take off what sticks up. Using pretty much
any =0A machinist deburring tool is pretty much a guarantee that
you removed=0A metal and formed a small countersunk edge. Which yo
u don't really =0A want.=0A=0A Tediously deburring hole by
hole is a big waste of time in my opinion.=0A You can do an entire
wing skin in a couple minutes with a modified=0A file, with in my
opinion less damage from over beveling edges. =0A=0A Jeff
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Read this topic online here:=0A=0A
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173307#173307<http://fo
rums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173307#173307>=0A=0A=0A
=======================
=======================
igator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
=======================
=======================
=======================
-> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/cont
=======================
=====================0A
=0A=0A=0A
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!% |
WELCOME! Welcome to the Brotherhood of the Terminally Confused. K
now this, Grasshopper, you will build at least two airplanes, one of w
hich will go to the airport, the others to the recycling center, a pie
ce at a time. And you will learn the Zen arts of serene patience, and
the ability to withhold thine screams of frustration, and the ability
to bandage your fingertips while saying, "I meant to do that".=0A
=0APaul Rodriguez=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A ----- Original Message
----- =0A From: Andrewlieser<mailto:Andrewlieser@gmail.com>
=0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
=0A Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:48 AM=0A Subject: Zenith-L
ist: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!%=0A=0A=0A -->
Zenith-List message posted by: "Andrewlieser" <Andrewlieser@gmail.com<
mailto:Andrewlieser@gmail.com>>=0A=0A So I've been reading this
board for over a year now and several other homebuilders boards for t
hat matter. The most common piece of advice given to new builders see
ms to be measure twice cut once. A great piece of advice for this exp
ensive hobby I think. Yet time after time I would see posts from new
builders that would indicate that they were not paying attention and c
ut wrong somewhere in the initial stages of their project. I would re
ad these and think that will never happen to me because I have read th
ese posts time and time again and I definitely will measure twice and
cut only once.=0A Well I started work on my rudder kit this weeken
d after 2 weeks worth of building an excellent workbench and creating
a very functional workspace. All my tools are in and I had inventorie
d every piece. I opened the plans for the 3rd or 4th time to look ove
r them yet again and decided it was time to make the first cut. I mar
ked off my 10mm on the double angle and drew the lines down to the cor
ner of each piece. I measured them twice and made sure they were perf
ect. Then after a couple of practice snips with my new shears I made
the cut....perfection. So I did it again and again and again until I
got what I thought was a perfect 27 degrees on my double angle. Sitti
ng back and admiring my work I noticed a difference in what my piece l
ooked like and what the pictures in front of me showed on the next pag
e. Panic set in. Not on the very first piece I thought so I checked
my piece again and sure enough WRONG. My measurements were perfect my
cuts perfect my interpretation!=0A of what I read WRONG. I now
have 2 pieces of scrap angle fashioned into 27 degree points on the e
nds of each. I had made the cut on both sides of the double angle so
it now looks like a freakin spear. But the lessoned has been learned
and I will reorder my parts on monday from Zenith and start fresh by t
he end of this week. My advice to new builders like myself is for eac
h piece....READ twice..ENVISION twice..Measure twice..CUT once!=0A
=0A --------=0A Andrew Lieser=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A R
ead this topic online here:=0A=0A http://forums.matronics.com/v
iewtopic.php?p=173684#173684<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p
hp?p=173684#173684>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=======================
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.m
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
===========0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 34
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| Subject: | couple of questions |
There are many approaches to the routing of the wiring and brake lines.
For the wires I have seen conduit in the center console and also wiring
under both top longerons. With wires under the longerons one question is how
to get the wires past 6B16-3 (left and right), the sloping braces at the
outside of the seatbacks. Some route the wires around these parts in
flexible conduit while others drill holes in the parts.
One solution for the brake lines is to enclose the channel on the bottom of
the plane. Ed Moody posted a series of photos of this solution last
September.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob McArdle
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 12:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: couple of questions
1-How does wiring from the rear of the fuselage get to the panel?(Under the
torque tube-?) 2-What do you use to attach the brake lines to the gear leg?
3-Do the brake lines run under the bottom longerons and then enter the
fuselage near the pedals or go up the gear leg and into the fuselage then
where? I have a long way to go.
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| Subject: | Re: couple of questions |
You asked some good questions that have been asked before. Search the archives
where there has been a lot of discussion on each of the topics. I will give
you my opinion and what I did. I am not flying yet so it is all still theory
and subject to change given real world results.
1. You can get wiring from the rear to the panel via three routes. Left armrail,
right armrail and through the middle spar opening and center console. I used
all three. I kept power items in the center and left the armrails for antennas.
I attached a picture of the stuff going through the center spar.
2. I used adel clamps screwed to the rear of the gear leg. The ZAC demo plane
used stick-on tabs and some of these have lifted off. I asked ZAC about routing
out a channel down the rear of the gear leg to imbed the bake line and they
advised against this. See picture attached for what I did.
3. Brake line routing. ZAC says to route through the middle spar opening and out
the side skins at the gear leg. I did not think I would have enough room there
so I ran them below the cockpit floor and back along the fuselage bottom.
Now that I have done this, I don't like the looks of it and may change back.
Again, see picture attached.
Good luck on your project,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, all major assemblies complete. Have run the engine and am starting final
assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173952#173952
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage_251_200.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage_328_468.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage_250_103.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: couple of questions |
I bundled some of the wires from the rear of the plane (and the brake
lines) along the sides of the tunnel at about the same level as the
torque tube. That location keeps the bundles form contacting the stick
as it moves the torque tube. I also routed some of the wires and antenna
cables in a piece of plastic tubing installed in the channel under the
canopy side rails.
I drilled and tapped some holes along the rear of the gear legs and
attached the lines to the gear lets with plastic cable clamp and screws.
My brake lines enter the fuselage above the lower longerons near the
rear of the gear legs.
Bob McArdle wrote:
> 1-How does wiring from the rear of the fuselage get to the panel?(Under
> the torque tube-?) 2-What do you use to attach the brake lines to the
> gear leg? 3-Do the brake lines run under the bottom longerons and then
> enter the fuselage near the pedals or go up the gear leg and into the
> fuselage then where? I have a long way to go.
>
>--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Measure twice cut twice........ awgh *#!% |
And if anybody ever steals your plane and obliterates the identifying
markings, the police will still be able to trace ownership by all the
DNA samples you left in various parts of the structure. ;)
paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
> WELCOME! Welcome to the Brotherhood of the Terminally Confused.
> Know this, Grasshopper, you will build at least two airplanes, one of
> which will go to the airport, the others to the recycling center, a
> piece at a time. And you will learn the Zen arts of serene patience,
> and the ability to withhold thine screams of frustration, and the
> ability to bandage your fingertips while saying, "I meant to do that".
>
> Paul Rodriguez
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | couple of questions |
Most of the wiring answers are pretty consistent, run the wires under the l
ongerons and through the center console. My brakes were also run through th
e cener consloe and then parallel to the spar exiting the side skin just be
hind the gear. I used a 1/4 inch round nose router bit and cut a slot in th
e rear side of the gear. The brake line sits in this grove and is clamped i
n place with small straps screwed into the gear sides
George May
601XL 912s
From: rmacpunk@netzero.netTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List
: couple of questionsDate: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:47:54 -0400
1-How does wiring from the rear of the fuselage get to the panel?(Under the
torque tube-?) 2-What do you use to attach the brake lines to the gear leg
? 3-Do the brake lines run under the bottom longerons and then enter the fu
selage near the pedals or go up the gear leg and into the fuselage then whe
re? I have a long way to go.
_________________________________________________________________
In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr
esh_realtime_042008
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Forgive me if this is old news, but I just watched three
short videos on the EAA site that I had not seen before.=C2- The topics ar
e drilling out a pulled rivet,
Clecos 101, and pulling rivets in tight spots.=C2-
I thought the last one was the most useful.=C2- If interested, from the EA
A home page click
on the multimedia tab.=C2- From there,
select videos.=C2- There is a list of the
most recent videos and if you select =9Cdrilling out a rivet=9D
you will be linked
to all three.
=C2-
Cheers,
Bill
601xl
=C2-
Do not archive
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| Subject: | couple of questions |
One "pretty" way to run the brake lines down the rear of the gear is shown
in the attached pictures. I don't know what the proper name for the special
"threaded post" nut and bolt shown is. Mine came from Lowes.
-- Craig
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| Subject: | couple of questions |
They are called Chicago screws, I don't know why, Dan.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: couple of questions
One "pretty" way to run the brake lines down the rear of the gear is shown
in the attached pictures. I don't know what the proper name for the special
"threaded post" nut and bolt shown is. Mine came from Lowes.
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
Gosh, Andy, that'd really be a tough break, so to speak.
I guess that you just stick your head between your legs, grab the hammer
with your teeth, bash open the cockpit, chew off the seatbelt and shoulder
belts, and then propel yourself with your feet to the nearest shore.
Oh wait, I forgot about the fire! Before you do all that, you use your
teeth to grab the fire extinguisher, set it between your knees, aim it with
your knees at the fire, then use your teeth to squeeze the trigger until
you get the fire out.
Of course, these maneuvers aren't for wimps. I recommend that you engage in
regular yoga practice to loosen up. The most appropriate pose is shown here:
http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/faculty/injurytype.jpg
Good luck.
Terry
At 09:38 AM 3/31/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>What if both of your arms are broken?
>
>[quote="Terry Phillips"]One solution for exiting an overturned 601 is an
>escape tool, e.g.,
>
> http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm (http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm)
>
> mounted securely in a place where you can reach it when your hanging
> upside down by your seatbelts. It's like a fire extinguisher--you hope
> you'll never need it, but, if you do need it, you'll be glad you got it.
>
>
>--------
>Andy Shontz
>CH601XL - Corvair
do not archive
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
RE: Ditching & escape - I think if you wanted out bad enough you would find a way,
broken arms or not - I would think a few good kicks would do the trick. This
discussion has got me thinking so when I get to the canopy installation part
I'll have to take a close look at how easy it is to release the canopy when
there is pressure on it.
Most of my flying has been in high wing aircraft which means the cabin will be
underwater when the plane comes to rest. For that reason, my plan was to unlatch
the doors in flight and when they spring open push the handle to the latched
position so there is a bar keeping them from closing. In a high wing you
have to let the cabin fill with water before you'll be able to get the doors open
and I'd rather have the cabin fill quickly rather than when the airplane has
started on it's way to the bottom. I may be wrong but I would think that the
XL might be easier to get out of after a ditching than my C182 would have been.
Frank is certainly correct inasmuch as you're only getting out with whatever you
have tied to you. In addition to the lifejacket I have a bag with a strobe,
flares, dye, etc. The other thing to think about is that calling mayday on 121.5
might not do much good in many areas. For example, when I cross the northern
part of Lake Michigan I prefer the tower frequency at Traverse City. They
have a direct line to the USCG chopper base on the field. Other than that,
I usually prefer approach or center radar over 121.5. I think there is a better
chance that someone will be listening.
In my 33 years of flying I have flown over some pretty remote and / or inhospitable
country and wide expanses of water... all single engine. I've given a lot
of thought to survival issues and even took a summer and winter survival course
put on by some guys associated with USAF pararescue..... The main thing is
you've got to have a plan. Waiting until things go bad is a recipe for disaster.
Sorry to drag this out so much.
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173989#173989
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
What if ?
What if you didnt have legs or arms and went swimming in the ocean. Would
they call you "Bob"???
If a woman pilot had only one leg, what would you think her name is ??
Ilean
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy issues and VGs
> <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> Ashontz,
>
> What if both of your legs are broken? What if a CH47 doesn't see you on
> the ramp and lands on top of you? What if gravity were to suddenly reverse
> itself and you were pushed into the deep reaches if interplanetary space?
>
> I'm really beginning to think that the 601 might not be the plane for you.
> I've not noticed one feature of the aircraft you like. Not that I can
> think of any aircraft available at any price that would be as safe as you
> seem to require.
>
>
> ashontz wrote:
>> I'm just thinkin' I like the sound of some sort of door a lot better than
>> a bubble canopy. A few months ago I had a bad back and could hardly get
>> out of my car, I can't imagine trying to fumble around with two broken
>> arms trying to work a swing stick to break the canopy.
>>
>> Anybody ever watch World Most Shocking Videos? How about that guy trying
>> to get out of the flaming dirt-track race buggy. That didn't look like
>> too much fun, and his problem was his seatbelt was jammed or something
>> like that.
>>
>>
>> Gig Giacona wrote:
>> > Well then you're screwed but only slightly more screwed than if you are
>> > stuck in your airplane sitting right-side up in your hanger with the
>> > canopy closed and with both arms broken.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ashontz wrote:
>> > > What if both of your arms are broken?
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173933#173933
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? |
That's very nice that you and others seem to think that her post is the same as
a simple misstatement but it was a direct attack by the dealer of one product
on the quality and in this case stability of a competitor.
She knew when she wrote it that the facts were untrue. And if you read the "apology"
she never admits that she made it up.
[quote="paulrod36(at)msn.com"] No, no, no!----She screwed up, and said something
not factual. Nobody on this list has ever done that before! Lightning is shooting
up from the ground, and great boulders are falling from the sky! Cats
and dogs are dancing with each other in the streets! (news and pictures at 11:00)
Quick, gather the villagers with torches, and storm the castle! Even if
she doesn't live there, storm the castle anyway! Retribution!!! We must all panic
before it is too late! We must mill around, shout and scream, and overreact
to vent our respective spleens. Those of us, that is, who don't have spleen
vents spring loaded to the open position This could lead to someone else misquoting
a torque table, or giving the wrong size AN bolt, or (gasp!) using
the wrong color Scotchbrite. Where will it all end?? Oh, the humanity! (Sorry
guys, I couldn't resist.) Helen, bless her, recognized an error, and apologized,
and it should be over and done with. Shall we continue building, now?
Paul Rodriguez
DO NOT ARCHIVE
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174009#174009
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
I'm just raising questions that othes can ponder. Your mocking my thinking out
loud confirms your lack of awareness. If your doctor told you to quit eating red
meat and cut down on the carbs lest you have a heart attack or stroke, would
you mock him in the same way? Maybe you won't have a heart attack or stroke,
but those things definitely don't help. Again, would you mock him in a "in your
face" kind of way? Doubtful.
[quote="Terry Phillips"]Gosh, Andy, that'd really be a tough break, so to speak.
I guess that you just stick your head between your legs, grab the hammer
with your teeth, bash open the cockpit, chew off the seatbelt and shoulder
belts, and then propel yourself with your feet to the nearest shore.
Oh wait, I forgot about the fire! Before you do all that, you use your
teeth to grab the fire extinguisher, set it between your knees, aim it with
your knees at the fire, then use your teeth to squeeze the trigger until
you get the fire out.
Of course, these maneuvers aren't for wimps. I recommend that you engage in
regular yoga practice to loosen up. The most appropriate pose is shown here:
http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/faculty/injurytype.jpg
Good luck.
Terry
At 09:38 AM 3/31/2008 -0700, you wrote:
> What if both of your arms are broken?
>
>
> Terry Phillips wrote:
> > One solution for exiting an overturned 601 is an
> > escape tool, e.g.,
> >
> > http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm (http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm)
> >
> > mounted securely in a place where you can reach it when your hanging
> > upside down by your seatbelts. It's like a fire extinguisher--you hope
> > you'll never need it, but, if you do need it, you'll be glad you got it.
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> > CH601XL - Corvair
> > do not archive
> >
>
>
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
> are done; working on the wings
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174010#174010
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| Subject: | Re: couple of questions |
Craig,
Believe it or not, they are called "sex bolts".......Really.
Herb
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne<mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: couple of questions
One "pretty" way to run the brake lines down the rear of the gear is
shown
in the attached pictures. I don't know what the proper name for the
special
"threaded post" nut and bolt shown is. Mine came from Lowes.
-- Craig
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Rudder skin wrinkling kind of.... |
Hey all just wanted an opinion. When I opened my rudder kit and checked the integrity
of everything I found only one concern. At first I dismissed it but as
I sit here waiting for my new Doubler angle I have not yet become comfortable
with it. My rudder skins came kind of wrinkled at the bottom front corner and
I just wanted some opinions as to whether the integrity of the part will be
compromised or if its merely aesthetic. If it is only aesthetic will the wrinkling
be removed when the skin is riveted the spar pulling it taught. If you
all think that this could be a problem I will send the photos to Zenith and see
if they will replace it. Please take a look and let me know! Thanks again
to everyone! Here is the link to the picture on my page just double click the
image for a better view.
http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=25804
--------
Andrew Lieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174016#174016
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair 701 STOLvair @ SNF |
Gus,
For those not able to attend, can you post some more video on your site?
Thanks,
Burke Johnson
CH701
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174017#174017
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| Subject: | couple of questions |
You can also google "binder posts". Apparently one of their intended
purposes is to hold together stacks of three-hole punched paper without a
three ring binder.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Heaton
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: couple of questions
Craig,
Believe it or not, they are called "sex bolts".......Really.
Herb
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne <mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: couple of questions
One "pretty" way to run the brake lines down the rear of the gear is shown
in the attached pictures. I don't know what the proper name for the special
"threaded post" nut and bolt shown is. Mine came from Lowes.
-- Craig
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
Gosh, I'm getting a STRONG SENSE of male testosterone floating around this forum......boys,
can you please use each others email address and take this off forum??
I personal don't like reading things like this - its foolish - selfish
- and extremely egotistical. Please beat each other up on YOUR TIME and quit
wasting my time to have to read such nonsense.
Larry Hursh
ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
I'm just raising questions that othes can ponder. Your mocking my thinking out
loud confirms your lack of awareness. If your doctor told you to quit eating red
meat and cut down on the carbs lest you have a heart attack or stroke, would
you mock him in the same way? Maybe you won't have a heart attack or stroke,
but those things definitely don't help. Again, would you mock him in a "in your
face" kind of way? Doubtful.
[quote="Terry Phillips"]Gosh, Andy, that'd really be a tough break, so to speak.
I guess that you just stick your head between your legs, grab the hammer
with your teeth, bash open the cockpit, chew off the seatbelt and shoulder
belts, and then propel yourself with your feet to the nearest shore.
Oh wait, I forgot about the fire! Before you do all that, you use your
teeth to grab the fire extinguisher, set it between your knees, aim it with
your knees at the fire, then use your teeth to squeeze the trigger until
you get the fire out.
Of course, these maneuvers aren't for wimps. I recommend that you engage in
regular yoga practice to loosen up. The most appropriate pose is shown here:
http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/faculty/injurytype.jpg
Good luck.
Terry
At 09:38 AM 3/31/2008 -0700, you wrote:
> What if both of your arms are broken?
>
>
> Terry Phillips wrote:
> > One solution for exiting an overturned 601 is an
> > escape tool, e.g.,
> >
> > http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm (http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm)
> >
> > mounted securely in a place where you can reach it when your hanging
> > upside down by your seatbelts. It's like a fire extinguisher--you hope
> > you'll never need it, but, if you do need it, you'll be glad you got it.
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> > CH601XL - Corvair
> > do not archive
> >
>
>
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
> are done; working on the wings
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174010#174010
---------------------------------
OMG, Sweet deal for Yahoo! users/friends: Get A Month of Blockbuster Total Access,
No Cost. W00t
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| Subject: | Dumb Rivet Question |
All the parts are done and I'm just about ready to rivet the whole rudder together.
In practicing with a couple of rivets on some scrap I noticed that in several
cases, once the rivet is pulled, a tiny but sharp piece of steel from the
center protrudes a bit. Is this normal? Am I pulling it too slowly or something?
I hate to think of hundreds of those sticking out all over the finished
product. I also hate to think of filing them off...
Thanks,
Burke Johnson
CH701
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174021#174021
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| Subject: | High wind limits for the 601 series? |
Hi Guys,
I must inquire as to what constitutes maximum wind conditions for the
tri-gear 601HDS. Ive been flying in 13 to 20 mph winds and dont feel
too uncomfortable having three runways 100 feet wide and a mile or more
long, but lately, the winds are getting up to 26 with gusts to 30 mph. I
was supposed to have the transponder-altimeter check tomorrow, but asked
for a rescheduling because of the predicted winds. Does anyone have a
set of limits for the light-aircraft 601 series? It would be nice to
have others opinions relative to experiences. I've flown in 25-mph
conditions, but never felt too comfortable. Whats safe and what becomes
risky?
Just trying to stay in one piece,,,,,,,
Thanks,
Larry McFarland 601 at www.macsmachine.com
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? |
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 05:02:13PM -0700, Gig Giacona wrote:
> That's very nice that you and others seem to think that her post is the
> same as a simple misstatement but it was a direct attack by the dealer of
> one product on the quality and in this case stability of a competitor.
It also failed miserably, as a moment's thought would have shown even the
least alert student it would. As such, if it was intended as an attack, it
was doomed to failure.
> She knew when she wrote it that the facts were untrue. And if you read the
> "apology" she never admits that she made it up.
This overstates the case. She's got real concerns about the Zodiac's
airworthiness, likely because she knew a guy who was killed in a crash of
one.
I still think I'd rather hear such rumors earlier than later, because that
means they won't get a head of steam behind them before they can be
debunked.
Helen's posting may have been out of line, but it just doesn't bother me
that much - if for no other reason than it shows how well the Zodiac stacks
up against other LSAs. If it didn't, why would they be slamming it?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? |
It did seem like a attack
what got me was she used comments here that there was something wrong
was the real reason to read this group to get ammo
do not archive
On 3/31/08, Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
> That's very nice that you and others seem to think that her post is the same
> as a simple misstatement but it was a direct attack by the dealer of one
> product on the quality and in this case stability of a competitor.
>
> She knew when she wrote it that the facts were untrue. And if you read the
> "apology" she never admits that she made it up.
>
>
> [quote="paulrod36(at)msn.com"] No, no, no!----She screwed up, and said
> something not factual. Nobody on this list has ever done that before!
> Lightning is shooting up from the ground, and great boulders are falling
> from the sky! Cats and dogs are dancing with each other in the streets!
> (news and pictures at 11:00) Quick, gather the villagers with torches, and
> storm the castle! Even if she doesn't live there, storm the castle anyway!
> Retribution!!! We must all panic before it is too late! We must mill
> around, shout and scream, and overreact to vent our respective spleens.
> Those of us, that is, who don't have spleen vents spring loaded to the open
> position This could lead to someone else misquoting a torque table, or
> giving the wrong size AN bolt, or (gasp!) using the wrong color
> Scotchbrite. Where will it all end?? Oh, the humanity! (Sorry guys, I
> couldn't resist.) Helen, bless her, recognized an error, and apologized,
> and it should be over and done with. Shall we!
> continue building, now?
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> > ---
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174009#174009
>
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: couple of questions |
O.K. to drill holes in the main part of the gear leg? Cessna uses
clips. John
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: couple of questions
You can also google "binder posts". Apparently one of their intended
purposes is to hold together stacks of three-hole punched paper without
a three ring binder.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Heaton
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:07 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: couple of questions
Craig,
Believe it or not, they are called "sex bolts".......Really.
Herb
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: couple of questions
One "pretty" way to run the brake lines down the rear of the gear is
shown
in the attached pictures. I don't know what the proper name for the
special
"threaded post" nut and bolt shown is. Mine came from Lowes.
-- Craig
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder skin wrinkling kind of.... |
I think it will be removed when you rivet the skin. Mine was damaged a lot
worse and it worked out.
Paul
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Andrewlieser <Andrewlieser@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Hey all just wanted an opinion. When I opened my rudder kit and checked
> the integrity of everything I found only one concern. At first I dismissed
> it but as I sit here waiting for my new Doubler angle I have not yet become
> comfortable with it. My rudder skins came kind of wrinkled at the bottom
> front corner and I just wanted some opinions as to whether the integrity of
> the part will be compromised or if its merely aesthetic. If it is only
> aesthetic will the wrinkling be removed when the skin is riveted the spar
> pulling it taught. If you all think that this could be a problem I will
> send the photos to Zenith and see if they will replace it. Please take a
> look and let me know! Thanks again to everyone! Here is the link to the
> picture on my page just double click the image for a better view.
>
>
> http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=25804
>
> --------
> Andrew Lieser
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174016#174016
>
>
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder skin wrinkling kind of.... |
Andrew
Its hard to tell anything from the photo. But I'd say don't worry about it. If
at the end of your build, it bothers you that much you can build another. By
that time, building a rudder will seem like child's play. The point of the rudder
is for you to learn. You may make a mistake or two while assembling anyway.
More likely, you will not mind a little imperfection by then. Trust me, you
will have a few dents here and there--in more obvious places than the bottom
of your rudder. In the big picture, It won't matter much. Of course, I'm a plans
builder, so I'm a little more forgiving of the guy making my parts. ;)
New builders, such as yourself, tend to come into this a little anxious and trepidations.
Being unfamiliar with the process, we tend to be overly concerned with
getting things perfect or not making mistakes. Just Relax, and work on learning.
I had to scrap my entire elevator (ribs and all)--my first scratch built
part. I had to remake all the ribs and re-bend that skin that I worked so had
to get perfect. I learned a lot of stuff on that second one, so I'm glad it
happened. Remember this: DONT LET LITTLE MATTERS STOP YOU FROM MAKING PROGRESS!
While you are waiting on your parts, go ahead and make a set of blocks for scratch-building
parts. Just get maybe a couple of 24" pieces of oak. Rip a 10 degree
angle on each side. Radius an 1/8", on one edge, each block; and 1/4" on the
others. Use this to remake any small parts you mis-drill or mis-cut or whatever.
Or just bend some scrap around it to get the feel; relieve stress; become
one with the aluminum; etc.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Andrewlieser" <Andrewlieser@gmail.com>
>
> Hey all just wanted an opinion. When I opened my rudder kit and checked the
> integrity of everything I found only one concern. At first I dismissed it but
> as I sit here waiting for my new Doubler angle I have not yet become comfortable
> with it. My rudder skins came kind of wrinkled at the bottom front corner and
I
> just wanted some opinions as to whether the integrity of the part will be
> compromised or if its merely aesthetic. If it is only aesthetic will the
> wrinkling be removed when the skin is riveted the spar pulling it taught. If
> you all think that this could be a problem I will send the photos to Zenith and
> see if they will replace it. Please take a look and let me know! Thanks again
> to everyone! Here is the link to the picture on my page just double click the
> image for a better view.
>
> http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=25804
>
> --------
> Andrew Lieser
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174016#174016
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: AMD? |
It's time to M O V E O N G E N T L E M E N !!!!! Enough is enough - drop it!
She apologized - let it go.
ernie <ernieth@gmail.com> wrote:
It did seem like a attack
what got me was she used comments here that there was something wrong
was the real reason to read this group to get ammo
do not archive
On 3/31/08, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> That's very nice that you and others seem to think that her post is the same
> as a simple misstatement but it was a direct attack by the dealer of one
> product on the quality and in this case stability of a competitor.
>
> She knew when she wrote it that the facts were untrue. And if you read the
> "apology" she never admits that she made it up.
>
>
> [quote="paulrod36(at)msn.com"] No, no, no!----She screwed up, and said
> something not factual. Nobody on this list has ever done that before!
> Lightning is shooting up from the ground, and great boulders are falling
> from the sky! Cats and dogs are dancing with each other in the streets!
> (news and pictures at 11:00) Quick, gather the villagers with torches, and
> storm the castle! Even if she doesn't live there, storm the castle anyway!
> Retribution!!! We must all panic before it is too late! We must mill
> around, shout and scream, and overreact to vent our respective spleens.
> Those of us, that is, who don't have spleen vents spring loaded to the open
> position This could lead to someone else misquoting a torque table, or
> giving the wrong size AN bolt, or (gasp!) using the wrong color
> Scotchbrite. Where will it all end?? Oh, the humanity! (Sorry guys, I
> couldn't resist.) Helen, bless her, recognized an error, and apologized,
> and it should be over and done with. Shall we!
> continue building, now?
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> > ---
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174009#174009
>
>
---------------------------------
OMG, Sweet deal for Yahoo! users/friends: Get A Month of Blockbuster Total Access,
No Cost. W00t
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Dumb Rivet Question |
It happens sometimes. If it happens a lot, you are either holding your
riveter crooked or not holding it tight. It is bouncing and popping away
from the top. When it happens to me I use a die grinder and just touch the
tip. Take care, LRM www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "rbjjr" <burkeandsusan@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 7:45 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Dumb Rivet Question
>
> All the parts are done and I'm just about ready to rivet the whole rudder
> together. In practicing with a couple of rivets on some scrap I noticed
> that in several cases, once the rivet is pulled, a tiny but sharp piece of
> steel from the center protrudes a bit. Is this normal? Am I pulling it
> too slowly or something? I hate to think of hundreds of those sticking
> out all over the finished product. I also hate to think of filing them
> off...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Burke Johnson
> CH701
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174021#174021
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 10:13 AM
>
>
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: Dumb Rivet Question |
How thick are the pieces you are working on? This will probably happen more with
small grip lengths? This happens to me every once in a while, but not often.
Otherwise mess around with your air pressure and make a few tests. The worst
thing about what you describe is (even if you file them) if you have to drill
out these rivets, for some reason, it is more difficult to get the mandrel to
push through.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "rbjjr" <burkeandsusan@verizon.net>
>
> All the parts are done and I'm just about ready to rivet the whole rudder
> together. In practicing with a couple of rivets on some scrap I noticed that
in
> several cases, once the rivet is pulled, a tiny but sharp piece of steel from
>
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: couple of questions |
Hi Bob,
Here is my solution for the brake line routing on the landing
gear. It is a small fairing I made that includes little brackets
which hold the brake line in place. I routed the lines along the
cabin bottom from the front to the area you see in the picture and
held it in place with a couple of standard clamps.
Paul
XL fuselage
[]
At 11:47 AM 3/31/2008, you wrote:
>-What do you use to attach the brake lines to the gear leg?
>
Message 63
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| Subject: | Building Engine Mount |
I am building an engine mount for Corvair/601XL per William Wayne manual which
calls for 1/2" firewall spool tubes and diagonal tubes of 3/4". When mating the
diagonal tubes to firewall spool tubes, do I "squeeze" the ends of 3/4" diagonal
tubes down to 1/2" prior to welding or do I leave the 3/4" diagonal tubes
as-is and somehow "fill" in the gap due to different sizes?
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
Message 64
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I found putting the beads in before welding to be much easier. Also found it best
to tack weld the entire seam around the whole tank, ends and length before
welding the tank closed. YMMV
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174049#174049
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: High wind limits for the 601 series? |
Larry,
My first flight in the XL was 17kts gusting to 25kts and all landings were 30 to
40 degree crosswind. The full flying rudder really makes that very controllable.
As far as what's safe, you answered that question yourself. Your personal
limits are what matters most not the limits of the aircraft.
Side note, rode the Light Sport Recumbent for the first time Saturday without shift
or brakes, think I'm gonna like it.
See ya next week.
Fly safe,
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174056#174056
Message 66
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| Subject: | couple of questions |
> O.K. to drill holes in the main part of the gear leg? Cessna uses clips.
John
Well the pictures I posted were of a plane being built at Michael Heintz's
Quality Sport Planes. I know of two others built there with the same
approach. My belief is that the gear is the most robust (over designed?)
part of an XL.
-- Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne <mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: couple of questions
You can also google "binder posts". Apparently one of their intended
purposes is to hold together stacks of three-hole punched paper without a
three ring binder.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Heaton
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: couple of questions
Craig,
Believe it or not, they are called "sex bolts".......Really.
Herb
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne <mailto:craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: couple of questions
One "pretty" way to run the brake lines down the rear of the gear is shown
in the attached pictures. I don't know what the proper name for the special
"threaded post" nut and bolt shown is. Mine came from Lowes.
-- Craig
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: High wind limits for the 601 series? |
Larry:
I landed in Rapid City in 42 knot winds gusting to 51 in our HDS. The
wind was about 45 degrees from runway heading. When I exited the
runway and went to a direct cross wind I was picked up and slid across
the taxiway. Thinking I had blown a tire, I shut down and asked
ground control for some help. They sent out two guys who hadn't
missed a meal in years and they held the wings down while I taxied to
a hangar.
Talking to Chris Heintz at Oshkosh about the incident, he confirmed
that was one of the reasons for the big rudder and oversize ailerons.
My feeling is that the 601 HDS can easily handle a 25 knot direct
cross wind if there are no other options. Having said that, I think
your 26-30 mph winds are a reasonable cutoff point when you have other
options than taking off.
Stan
On Mar 31, 2008, at 6:50 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote:
> >
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I must inquire as to what constitutes maximum wind conditions for
> the tri-gear 601HDS. Ive been flying in 13 to 20 mph winds and
> dont feel too uncomfortable having three runways 100 feet wide and
> a mile or more long, but lately, the winds are getting up to 26 with
> gusts to 30 mph. I was supposed to have the transponder-altimeter
> check tomorrow, but asked for a rescheduling because of the
> predicted winds. Does anyone have a set of limits for the light-
> aircraft 601 series? It would be nice to have others opinions
> relative to experiences. I've flown in 25-mph conditions, but never
> felt too comfortable. Whats safe and what becomes risky?
>
> Just trying to stay in one piece,,,,,,,
> Thanks,
>
> Larry McFarland 601 at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy issues and VGs |
Does anybody have plans to make the canopy eject-able?
Thanks.
Austria
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174074#174074
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