---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/03/08: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:07 AM - Re: Re: CH701 Door Warning (Dave Johnson) 2. 02:37 AM - Rotamax two rotor normally aspirated (Jerry Hey) 3. 03:52 AM - Re: Interior painting (Paul Mulwitz) 4. 04:31 AM - Re: Taking the plunge - a rookie gets started in plans building. (kmccune) 5. 05:53 AM - Re: Price and delivery for Rotax 912S (Tommy Walker) 6. 06:02 AM - O-200 prop (LHusky@aol.com) 7. 06:09 AM - AMD fuel tanks (LHusky@aol.com) 8. 06:20 AM - Re: couple of questions (Bob Sturgis) 9. 06:20 AM - Re: O-200 prop (Jay Maynard) 10. 07:24 AM - Re: AMD fuel tanks (thesumak@aol.com) 11. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants (Bob Sturgis) 12. 12:03 PM - Wing Twist (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com) 13. 12:46 PM - welding (David Downey) 14. 12:48 PM - Re: Wing Twist (John Short) 15. 01:22 PM - Zinc Chromate (James E. Lanier) 16. 01:32 PM - Re: Wing Twist (Trainnut01@aol.com) 17. 01:39 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (ihab.awad@gmail.com) 18. 01:39 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (ihab.awad@gmail.com) 19. 01:53 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (LarryMcFarland) 20. 02:02 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (steve) 21. 02:03 PM - Re: Wing Twist (LarryMcFarland) 22. 02:10 PM - Re: Wing Twist (Terry Phillips) 23. 02:14 PM - Re: welding (ashontz) 24. 02:33 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (James E. Lanier) 25. 02:50 PM - Bill of Sale (Tommy Walker) 26. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants (Craig Payne) 27. 03:04 PM - Re: CH701 Door Warning (Tommy Walker) 28. 03:30 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (Rick Lindstrom) 29. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants (Bob Sturgis) 30. 04:04 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (Art Gibeaut) 31. 04:04 PM - Re: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants (Craig Payne) 32. 04:16 PM - Re: Wing Twist (Bill Naumuk) 33. 04:36 PM - Custom Trailer for Hauling a Zodiac (Sabrina) 34. 04:37 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (Lee Steensland) 35. 05:23 PM - Re: Wing Twist (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com) 36. 05:23 PM - Re: Bill of Sale (Tim Juhl) 37. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Limits (Cessna 172) (David Downey) 38. 06:25 PM - Re: Bill of Sale (Tommy Walker) 39. 06:50 PM - 7H1-1 Dimensions (Art Olechowski) 40. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: Bill of Sale (Kevin L. Rupert) 41. 07:36 PM - Re: Wing Twist (Graeme) 42. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: AMD Zodiac XL (Paul Mulwitz) 43. 08:48 PM - Re: 7H1-1 Dimensions (stepinwolf) 44. 08:56 PM - Zenith - the choice of celebrities! (Doug Eatman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:02 AM PST US From: "Dave Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Door Warning It seems to me that this could be more of a problem with the optional bulged doors, which must form a pretty good airfoil trying to pull the door open. Dave Johnson 601XL (so I don't really know what I'm talking about!) do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: ruruny@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Door Warning Actually I have had a concern about this since my demo ride at the factory years ago. We never opened the doors in flight, but while taxiing out we left them unlatched. When Roger pushed in the throttle more the doors opened more. My door is attached with a piano hinge the length of the top of the door, not a front or rear hinge. I've always figured they would fly open as has happened in this incident. I thought about a safety pin installed on the plate attached to the fuselage. Close latch, insert pin behind latch into plate. Or just a blind A5 rivet in that same hole where the pin would go to make a detent. How can a door on one plane fly up and another it not. The shape of the door is curved outward at the base of the window, creating an airfoil which would cause it to fly open. It would be a cool test in a wind tunnel. Thanks for the report on this. Brian Unruh http://www.701builder.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:59 AM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Zenith-List: Rotamax two rotor normally aspirated For you guys (including me) looking for an engine here are some numbers just published by RotaMaX. Jerry ---------------------- Engine RotaMax 1300 > > > > Displacement 1300cc > > > > MSRP $14,995 > > > > Maximum HP 120 @ 5800 RPM > > > > HP Sustained 110 @ 5300 RPM > > > > Maximum Torque 120 FT LBS > > > > Maximum RPM 5800 > > > > Weight With PSRU 145 LBS > > > > Ignition Twin Coils and Spark Plugs > > > > Fuel Delivery EFI > > > > ASTM Compliancy Testing Underway > > > > TBO 1700 HRS > > > > Rebuild Costs MSRP $4,995 Estimated > > > > GPH at cruise 4-6 GPH > > > > Note: GPH is dependent on Aircraft and Engine Load at Cruise > > > > Validated upon completion of ATSM Qualification > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:57 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Interior painting Hi Larry, I've used self etching primer in a medium gray color directly on the aluminum. Preparation is just scratching up the aluminum with 100 grit emery cloth and a wipe with a clean rag and some lacquer thinner. The result is a relatively flat grey color which seems to be reasonably durable. For accents, I use a flat black enamel. This turned out to be a problem when applied directly over the self etching primer. I found I needed to put a regular primer over the self etching stuff or the enamel would lift the first coat of paint. All of these paints are available at an automotive paint store in rattle cans. Bring your credit card when buying the self etching primer -- it costs around $15 per rattle can. Have fun, Paul XL fuselage At 04:08 PM 4/1/2008, you wrote: >I'll make it simple. I'm polishing the outside of my 601XL, but I'm >needing help on the interior paint. > >I'm looking for durable, fairly easy to apply and cost >effective. Any suggestions? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Taking the plunge - a rookie gets started in plans building. From: "kmccune" Hey congrats on the start and getting the tools ready. I started and made excellent progress, built the rudder in about 3 weeks. But I should have made the dies first. Now I have a bunch of stab and elevator ribs and my wife has realized that I NEED to finish the family room now or it will wait until the my plane flys ... She is right too [Wink] So I'm a carpenter for a while :D Your going to love it, I don't regret not getting the kit one bit. Though I'd be flying faster, but I'd be missing some of the experience. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174544#174544 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Price and delivery for Rotax 912S From: "Tommy Walker" Hi, I don't know the delivery time but Zenith supplies a complete kit. I also saw a 912 ULS for sale on Kitplanes for sale. It has about 10 hrs time on it and includes Oil tank, Cooler, and Carb airbox. The owner wants $14K for it. That's a lot less than the current price for NIB. Regards, Tommy Walker in Alabama N8701 44.8 Hours -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174556#174556 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:19 AM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: O-200 prop I am trying to get my FWF together for the O-200 engine and I am wondering what some of you guys are using for a prop. Does anyone know what AMD is putting on their planes? I sent them and email, but no answer. I am taking my private pilot check ride in a couple of weeks, so I do not plan to fly sport pilot. I am wanting the best cruise speed I can get out of the whole deal. I have been flying a 172, so any prop on there will probably make the 601 climb like a home sick angle compared to the 172. I do live in Oregon and it has been known to rain here, so whatever I put on, has to be able to withstand some rain. Any recommendations and information on what AMD is using would be helpful. Thanks for the info! Larry Husky N667H (Reserved) (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:50 AM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: AMD fuel tanks I was looking at the AMD site last night and came across a drawing of their fuel tanks. They have a completely different sending unit that is installed on the top of the tank. It also looks like the sending unit will sit under the skin without modification to the wing skin. I am wondering if anyone has seen this setup in person, or if anyone has used their sending unit. Larry Husky N667H (Reserved) (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:30 AM PST US From: Bob Sturgis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: couple of questions You can find them at McMaster.com Or on page 3050 in the 114 catalog. Bindi ng Posts and Binding Barrels and Screws.=0A=0ABobefx=0A=0A----- Original Me ssage ----=0AFrom: Craig Payne =0ATo: zenith-list@m atronics.com=0ASent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:42:32 PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenit h-List: couple of questions=0A=0A=0AYou can also google =93binder posts=94. Apparently one of their intended purposes is to hold together stacks of th ree-hole punched paper without a three ring binder.=0A =0A-- Craig=0A =0AFr om: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server @matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Heaton=0ASent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:0 7 PM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: couple of questions=0A =0ACraig,=0A =0ABelieve it or not, they are called "sex bolts" .......Really.=0A =0AHerb=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Craig Pay ne =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:40 PM =0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: couple of questions=0A =0AOne "pretty" way to run the brake lines down the rear of the gear is shown=0Ain the attached pi ctures. I don't know what the proper name for the special=0A"threaded post" nut and bolt shown is. Mine came from Lowes.=0A=0A-- Craig=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List=0A=0A=0A=0Aht tp://forums.matronics.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contributi ========= ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:30 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: O-200 prop On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 08:59:26AM -0400, LHusky@aol.com wrote: > I am trying to get my FWF together for the O-200 engine and I am wondering > what some of you guys are using for a prop. Does anyone know what AMD is > putting on their planes? I sent them and email, but no answer. I don't have a specific model number, but it's a Sensenich wood-composite. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: AMD fuel tanks From: thesumak@aol.com Hi Larry, =C2- Not sure if AMD uses a different sending unit, but in terms of placement, several builders including myself have chosen to place it on top for better access.=C2- Before you commit to sender location on the tank, I might suggest that you make a sending unit hole in a scrap piece of aluminum and see what is involved in installing it.=C2- I had enough clearance on top but if you don=99t, you can modify the access cover as has been previously de scribed by Phil. =C2- Bill -----Original Message----- From: LHusky@aol.com Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 8:05 am Subject: Zenith-List: AMD fuel tanks I was looking at the AMD site last night and came across a drawing of their fuel tanks.=C2- They have a completely different sending unit that is installed on the top of the tank.=C2- It also looks like the sending unit will sit under the skin without modification to the wing skin.=C2- I am wonderi ng if anyone has seen this setup in person, or if anyone has used their sending unit.=C2- =C2- Larry Husky N667H (Reserved) =C2- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:53 AM PST US From: Bob Sturgis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants Craig, My rear mount for the shocks was forward by 20mm and I had the same problem. Check the location. I moved mine back 20mm. I got new mounts so I could use the same holes in the fus. Roger sent them right out. Bob ----- Original Message ---- From: Craig Payne Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 2:38:14 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants > I shortened the Air Shocks 3/8" to keep the canopy from extending farther. I'm going to have to shorten mine about the same amount or move the brackets back. How did you shorten the air shocks? Extend the threads with a die and cut off the extra? Are the threaded shafts very hard? I also worry about damaging the smooth surface when clamping the shafts. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nixon Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants The radius along with inverting the two bolts in front are required for the 'new' streamlined wheel pant to fit properly. the radius is not much (1/4" ?) but, in my case, found it necessary to get a proper fit. N107R CH601XL with Jabiru 3300 leapt into the air today for its maiden voyage. Some bugs. Worked them out this afternoon and tested via High speed taxi. Tomorrow it is back into the air. One issue that I have, the front seal strip for the canopy at the forward fuselage cowl does not want to stay glued. I have used 3-M Trim adhesive. No go. Hot glue gun. No go. RTV no go. This afternoon I tried a 2 part epoxy. Won't know until tomorrow AM. Apparently, my forward edge of the canopy just touches the cowl causing the lip of the seal to roll back or under. However you want to look at it. I shortened the Air Shocks 3/8" to keep the canopy from extending farther. It helped but didn't solve the problem entirely. Any Suggestions? Dave Nixon Flying N107R Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174386#174386 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:18 PM PST US From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Twist As hard as I tried not to I have one wing that is twisted some is there any tolerance for wing twist as there is with the stab and elevator. I tried drilling out both rear skins and when clecoed back the twist is back. I must have drilled it while it was twisted but at the time I sure didn't think it was. Right now I'm ready to take a sledge hammer to the whole thing. David ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:51 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Zenith-List: welding Andy; You asked about welding instruction. Here is the link to a government sponsored handbook: http://www.fortunecity.com/village/lind/247/index_WELD.htm Also, Tinmantech is a good reference: http://tinmantech.com/ Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:52 PM PST US From: "John Short" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Twist I feel your pain brother. If possible try and figure out which skin is giving the problem and just make the one over. I know that is not the answer you might of been looking for but I think I would start there. John (Scratch building 701) Kaufman, Tx ----- Original Message ----- From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Twist As hard as I tried not to I have one wing that is twisted some is there any tolerance for wing twist as there is with the stab and elevator. I tried drilling out both rear skins and when clecoed back the twist is back. I must have drilled it while it was twisted but at the time I sure didn't think it was. Right now I'm ready to take a sledge hammer to the whole thing. David ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:07 PM PST US From: "James E. Lanier" Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate Zn-Cr First, does everyone do this on their kits? Do you only apply it only to the contact surfaces, or the entire inner surfaces? I am looking for pros and cons. Jim ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:40 PM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Twist David The trailing edge of my left wing is twisted up 8mm at the outboard end. The right trailing edge is twisted up 12mm at the outboard end. Chris told me to leave them alone. If they were twisted in opposite directions his answer might have been different. Carroll do not archive (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:45 PM PST US From: ihab.awad@gmail.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 2:16 PM, James E. Lanier wrote: > Zn-Cr http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22primer+wars%22 -- Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:48 PM PST US From: ihab.awad@gmail.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 2:16 PM, James E. Lanier wrote: > Zn-Cr http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22primer+wars%22 -- Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:38 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate Hi James, With Zinc Chromate inside the wing, you'll notice with some paints that the yellow will bleed thru your primer. Not too much to cover with color but problematic with semi-solid paints. During the wash, etch, prime, I had a lot of difficulty with the yellow stain penetrating the white primer. Perhaps that wouldn't be a problem if the Zinc Chromate was white too. If not, I'd suggest you do a test coat under what you intend to prime with outside the skins or find an epoxy prime that would coat and protect your aluminum to avoid the hassle. For most of 6061 alloys, you only need to prime the surfaces that make contact with each other and light spray areas that could collect moisture. Don't forget to drill the small drain holes in boxed surfaces, or your wash-etch will never dry well, i.e., stabilizer etc. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com James E. Lanier wrote: > > > Zn-Cr > > First, does everyone do this on their kits? Do you only apply it only > to the contact surfaces, or the entire inner surfaces? I am looking > for pros and cons. > > Jim > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:54 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate Being the now expert painter that I am.... I strongly suggest that if you use zinc chromate primer that you seal it with a paint compatible product. I didnt! I had bleed through and it took four coats to finally get it stopped from bleeding. On the metal to metal joints the chromate works fine but if you plan on painting for looks use an epoxy primmer.. AND be absolutely sure its compatible with your finish coats.... SW Steves Aircraft Painting Service.............NOT ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Lanier" Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate > > > Zn-Cr > > First, does everyone do this on their kits? Do you only apply it only to > the contact surfaces, or the entire inner surfaces? I am looking for pros > and cons. > > Jim > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:17 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Twist Hi David, In as much as you've got the holes for the trailing skins done, I'd recommend you match jig the twist you want with one rib end of the wing skin clecoed and mark the skin for the actual hole positions seen partially thru the skin. Then translate key new positions to the next skin and cleco it secure. Check the twist again and you should be good to go. Better to make this next skin yourself, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Davcoberly@wmconnect.com wrote: > As hard as I tried not to I have one wing that is twisted some is > there any tolerance for wing twist as there is with the stab and > elevator. I tried drilling out both rear skins and when clecoed back > the twist is back. I must have drilled it while it was twisted but at > the time I sure didn't think it was. Right now I'm ready to take a > sledge hammer to the whole thing. David > * > > * ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:57 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Twist David I am working on my right wing right now, and I confess to being a bit confused regarding how to determine twist. How did you determine that your wing was twisted? I can tell you what I've done, and where I'm at, but it would be faster to just point you to my builder's log--check the entries for 3/5 and later, especially the ones for 3/25 and later. See the link below. There are lots of photos. The bottom line is that, as near as I can read a spirit level, my wing satisfies the specs for avoiding twist given in PAM 6W8A, i.e., both spars are level and the spar angle is 9=B0. But when I put the bottom skin in place, it was too wide by >=2-mm inboard and by >=10-mm outboard. Caleb told me that such problems are usually an indication of twist in the wing. So, I remeasured: my supporting beams were level, the spars were level, and the spar angle measured 9=B0. Hmm. Caleb suggested that I let the skin overlap the rear spar as far as possible while meeting edge & flange distance specs. I could do that and just barely meet specs. But since it didn't allow any room for error (not wise for me), I decided, instead, to let the skin overlap the main spar and drill a new rivet line there. I did not make up the support blocks as described in PAM 8AA. Since I have 12 ft long 2x2 steel beams that I can level on my table, I thought they would give me a better reference. I clamped the shimmed-up beams to the table so that they cannot move. It's at times like these that I would wish for a builder assist person who could look at what I've done and tell me whether it was good enough. After writing all this just now, I realized that I had never measured the skins, so ... the inboard end of the skin measures 917-mm vs. 910-mm on 6-W-8 and the outboard end measures 720-mm vs. 705-mm on the dwg. Duh. I can't believe that I didn't measure them when the problem 1st surfaced. I guess I'd best call ZAC, again. Also, there was another problem with the bottom skins--the slots for the tie down rings were cut on the outboard side of rib 9 instead of inboard. Has anyone else encountered that? Also, my right nose skin has prepunched pilot holes for the 30 gal tanks rather than for the 24 gal tanks I have. Terry At 02:59 PM 4/3/2008 -0400, you wrote: >As hard as I tried not to I have one wing that is twisted some is there >any tolerance for wing twist as there is with the stab and elevator. I >tried drilling out both rear skins and when clecoed back the twist is >back. I must have drilled it while it was twisted but at the time I sure >didn't think it was. Right now I'm ready to take a sledge hammer to the >whole thing. David Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: welding From: "ashontz" Cool. I'll check it out. [quote="planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co"]Andy; You asked about welding instruction. Here is the link to a government sponsored handbook: http://www.fortunecity.com/village/lind/247/index_WELD.htm Also, Tinmantech is a good reference: http://tinmantech.com/ Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174642#174642 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:59 PM PST US From: "James E. Lanier" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate Thanks. Just to make sure we are on the same page..I intend to use this inside the wings, rudder, horizontal stab and not on the exterior surface. What I am asking is whether or not to cover the entire interior surfaces or just at the contact points.(.ie rib to skin) Jim steve wrote: > > Being the now expert painter that I am.... I strongly suggest that if > you use zinc chromate primer that you seal it with a paint compatible > product. I didnt! I had bleed through and it took four coats to > finally get it stopped from bleeding. On the metal to metal joints > the chromate works fine but if you plan on painting for looks use an > epoxy primmer.. AND be absolutely sure its compatible with your > finish coats.... > SW > > Steves Aircraft Painting Service.............NOT ! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Lanier" > > To: "Zenith-List Digest List" > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:16 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate > > >> >> >> Zn-Cr >> >> First, does everyone do this on their kits? Do you only apply it only >> to the contact surfaces, or the entire inner surfaces? I am looking >> for pros and cons. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Bill of Sale From: "Tommy Walker" Builders, I plan to buy an unfinished Zenith project. The owner passed away and his son is selling the kit. The original owner finished the rudder, stabilizer, elevator, and part of one wing. I am looking for a sample bill of sale that will satisfy the FAA. If anyone has one, please forward a copy to me. I am looking for a modified AC 8050-2 that would reflect a Kit Bill Of Sale. Many thanks, Tommy Walker in Alabama N8701 44.8 hours Do Not Archive Nor point out the dangers of buying someone else's partially finished kit. -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174652#174652 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:23 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants Thanks, I already have undrilled replacement brackets. But using them in a new, more rearward position will leave some existing holes in the top longerons empty and require some new holes. If I can use the existing bracket in its original position by shortening the gas spring I'll have a cleaner fix. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sturgis Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants Craig, My rear mount for the shocks was forward by 20mm and I had the same problem. Check the location. I moved mine back 20mm. I got new mounts so I could use the same holes in the fus. Roger sent them right out. Bob ----- Original Message ---- From: Craig Payne Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 2:38:14 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants > I shortened the Air Shocks 3/8" to keep the canopy from extending farther. I'm going to have to shorten mine about the same amount or move the brackets back. How did you shorten the air shocks? Extend the threads with a die and cut off the extra? Are the threaded shafts very hard? I also worry about damaging the smooth surface when clamping the shafts. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nixon Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants The radius along with inverting the two bolts in front are required for the 'new' streamlined wheel pant to fit properly. the radius is not much (1/4" ?) but, in my case, found it necessary to get a proper fit. N107R CH601XL with Jabiru 3300 leapt into the air today for its maiden voyage. Some bugs. Worked them out this afternoon and tested via High speed taxi. Tomorrow it is back into the air. One issue that I have, the front seal strip for the canopy at the forward fuselage cowl does not want to stay glued. I have used 3-M Trim adhesive. No go. Hot glue gun. No go. RTV no go. This afternoon I tried a 2 part epoxy. Won't know until tomorrow AM. Apparently, my forward edge of the canopy just touches the cowl causing the lip of the seal to roll back or under. However you want to look at it. I shortened the Air Shocks 3/8" to keep the canopy from extending farther. It helped but didn't solve the problem entirely. Any Suggestions? Dave Nixon Flying N107R Read this topic online here: The Zenith-List Email Forum - Matronics List Features Navigator to browse List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, and much much more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Door Warning From: "Tommy Walker" Brian, I've thought about this too. And I appreciate Mr. JG bringing it to our attention. Folks, as far as I know, Mr. JG is NOT trying to sell us a "fix" for this problem. I am looking at ways to lessen the potential for an in-flight door departure. Tommy Walker in Alabama N8701 44.8 Hours Phase I Finished! [quote="ruruny(at)aol.com"]Actually I have had a concern about this since my demo ride at the factory years ago. We never opened the doors in flight, but while taxiing out we left them unlatched. When Roger pushed in the throttle more the doors opened more. My door is attached with a piano hinge the length of the top of the door, not a front or rear hinge. I've always figured they would fly open as has happened in this incident. I thought about a safety pin installed on the plate attached to the fuselage. Close latch, insert pin behind latch into plate. Or just a blind A5 rivet in that same hole where the pin would go to make a detent. How can a door on one plane fly up and another it not. The shape of the door is curved outward at the base of the window, creating an airfoil which would cause it to fly open. It would be a cool test in a wind tunnel. Thanks for the report on this. Brian Unruh http://www.701builder.com (http://www.701builder.com) Get the MapQuest Toolbar (http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003), Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174655#174655 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:11 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate Hi, Jim. The way the quick build kits come is as you describe, with chromate ONLY between the metal mating surfaces. Of course, you can chromate the whole interior, but the weight of the layers will add up. Some kit manufacturers do chromate other than contact areas, but this is generally limited to inaccessable areas on airplanes that carry a load. My strategy was to just fog the unpainted areas of the interior of the fuselage, and the wings and stabilizers, with ACF-50 for corrosion protection (and repeated every year at inspection). Since empty weight is so precious on LSA aircraft, I went for a partial exterior paint job as well. Just my $0.02. Rick Lindstrom 601 XL N42KP -----Original Message----- >From: "James E. Lanier" >Sent: Apr 3, 2008 6:28 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate > > >Thanks. Just to make sure we are on the same page..I intend to use this >inside the wings, rudder, horizontal stab and not on the exterior >surface. What I am asking is whether or not to cover the entire interior >surfaces or just at the contact points.(.ie rib to skin) > >Jim > > >steve wrote: >> >> Being the now expert painter that I am.... I strongly suggest that if >> you use zinc chromate primer that you seal it with a paint compatible >> product. I didnt! I had bleed through and it took four coats to >> finally get it stopped from bleeding. On the metal to metal joints >> the chromate works fine but if you plan on painting for looks use an >> epoxy primmer.. AND be absolutely sure its compatible with your >> finish coats.... >> SW >> >> Steves Aircraft Painting Service.............NOT ! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Lanier" >> >> To: "Zenith-List Digest List" >> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:16 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate >> >> >>> >>> >>> Zn-Cr >>> >>> First, does everyone do this on their kits? Do you only apply it only >>> to the contact surfaces, or the entire inner surfaces? I am looking >>> for pros and cons. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:07 PM PST US From: Bob Sturgis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants That's why I got new rear mounts, and used the existing holes in the longer ons. Best fix. Shortening the gas springs can cause other problems, not a g ood idea.=0AMy new rear mounts were longer then the originals so I could us e the same holes. =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Craig Payne =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, Apr il 3, 2008 2:58:23 PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pant s=0A=0A=0AThanks, I already have undrilled replacement brackets. But using them in a new, more rearward position will leave some existing holes in the top longerons empty and require some new holes. If I can use the existing bracket in its original position by shortening the gas spring I=A2ll have a cleaner fix.=0A =0A-- Craig=0A =0AFrom: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics .com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sturg is=0ASent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:37 AM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.co m=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants=0A =0ACraig,=0AMy rear mount for the shocks was forward by 20mm and I had the same problem. C heck the location. I moved mine back 20mm. I got new mounts so I could use the same holes in the fus. Roger sent them right out. =0ABob=0A----- Origin al Message ----=0AFrom: Craig Payne =0ATo: zenith-l ist@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 2:38:14 PM=0ASubject: RE : Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants=0A=0A--> Zenith-List message post ed by: "Craig Payne" =0A=0A> I shortened the Air Sh ocks 3/8" to keep the canopy from extending farther.=0A=0AI'm going to have to shorten mine about the same amount or move the brackets=0Aback. How did you shorten the air shocks? Extend the threads with a die and=0Acut off th e extra? Are the threaded shafts very hard? I also worry about=0Adamaging t he smooth surface when clamping the shafts.=0A=0A-- Craig=0A=0A-----Origina l Message-----=0AFrom: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:own er-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nixon=0ASent: Wednes day, April 02, 2008 2:05 PM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Zeni "Dave Nixon" =0A=0AThe radius along with inverting the two bolts in front are required for the=0A'new' streamlined wheel pant to fit properly. the radius is not much (1/4"=0A?) but, in my case, found it necessary to get a proper fit.=0A=0AN107R CH601XL with Jabiru 3300 leapt into the air today for its maiden=0Avoyage. Some bugs. Worked them out t his afternoon and tested via High=0Aspeed taxi. Tomorrow it is back into th e air. =0A=0AOne issue that I have, the front seal strip for the canopy at the forward=0Afuselage cowl does not want to stay glued. I have used 3-M T rim adhesive.=0ANo go. Hot glue gun. No go. RTV no go. This afternoon I tri ed a 2 part=0Aepoxy. Won't know until tomorrow AM. Apparently, my forward edge of the=0Acanopy just touches the cowl causing the lip of the seal to r oll back or=0Aunder. However you want to look at it. I shortened the Air Sh ocks 3/8" to=0Akeep the canopy from extending farther. It helped but didn' t solve the=0Aproblem entirely. Any Suggestions? =0A=0ADave Nixon =0AFlyin g N107R=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List=0A=0A =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/co ====== ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:18 PM PST US From: Art Gibeaut Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate I started the kit with Zn-Cr which was applied to only one surface. I did not like the potential health related issues and after reading dozens of opinions on this and other sites decided to switch to Self Etching Primer in a rattle can that I buy from NAPA Auto. I tested the stuff for resilience, and it is pretty good, and have used it throughout. I'm done with the tail, wings, and rear fuselage on my 701 and I have not regretted it. Just my opinion. --- On Thu, 4/3/08, James E. Lanier wrote: > From: James E. Lanier > Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate > To: "Zenith-List Digest List" > Date: Thursday, April 3, 2008, 4:16 PM > Lanier" > > Zn-Cr > > First, does everyone do this on their kits? Do you only > apply it only to > the contact surfaces, or the entire inner surfaces? I am > looking for > pros and cons. > > Jim > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:20 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants My old and new brackets are the same length. How long are the replacement brackets you received from Roger? -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sturgis Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:42 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants That's why I got new rear mounts, and used the existing holes in the longerons. Best fix. Shortening the gas springs can cause other problems, not a good idea. My new rear mounts were longer then the originals so I could use the same holes. ----- Original Message ---- From: Craig Payne Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 2:58:23 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants Thanks, I already have undrilled replacement brackets. But using them in a new, more rearward position will leave some existing holes in the top longerons empty and require some new holes. If I can use the existing bracket in its original position by shortening the gas spring I?ll have a cleaner fix. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sturgis Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants Craig, My rear mount for the shocks was forward by 20mm and I had the same problem. Check the location. I moved mine back 20mm. I got new mounts so I could use the same holes in the fus. Roger sent them right out. Bob ----- Original Message ---- From: Craig Payne Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 2:38:14 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants > I shortened the Air Shocks 3/8" to keep the canopy from extending farther. I'm going to have to shorten mine about the same amount or move the brackets back. How did you shorten the air shocks? Extend the threads with a die and cut off the extra? Are the threaded shafts very hard? I also worry about damaging the smooth surface when clamping the shafts. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nixon Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL with Wheel Pants The radius along with inverting the two bolts in front are required for the 'new' streamlined wheel pant to fit properly. the radius is not much (1/4" ?) but, in my case, found it necessary to get a proper fit. N107R CH601XL with Jabiru 3300 leapt into the air today for its maiden voyage. Some bugs. Worked them out this afternoon and tested via High speed taxi. Tomorrow it is back into the air. One issue that I have, the front seal strip for the canopy at the forward fuselage cowl does not want to stay glued. I have used 3-M Trim adhesive. No go. Hot glue gun. No go. RTV no go. This afternoon I tried a 2 part epoxy. Won't know until tomorrow AM. Apparently, my forward edge of the canopy just touches the cowl causing the lip of the seal to roll back or under. However you want to look at it. I shortened the Air Shocks 3/8" to keep the canopy from extending farther. It helped but didn't solve the problem entirely. Any Suggestions? Dave Nixon Flying N107R Read this topic online here: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http= --> Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:54 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Twist Dave- In spite of the fact that I had problems with the spar web pre-drilled holes, this was the answer for me. Avoid movement and you avoid trouble. If you have to trash the existing skins, you can make new ones relatively cheaply in a short time with an Olfa knife. You can tell this is an old picture- the windows are open!! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Twist As hard as I tried not to I have one wing that is twisted some is there any tolerance for wing twist as there is with the stab and elevator. I tried drilling out both rear skins and when clecoed back the twist is back. I must have drilled it while it was twisted but at the time I sure didn't think it was. Right now I'm ready to take a sledge hammer to the whole thing. David ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Custom Trailer for Hauling a Zodiac From: "Sabrina" FYI: My dad wants the trailer that was used to transport my airplane to the airport out of the garage. The trailer's deck is custom grooved and drilled for a hauling a Zodiac/Sabrina. He put it on E-Bay for $399. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150233022094&rd=1 (Mr. Dralle, if there anything wrong with posting this message here, feel free to delete it.) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174679#174679 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:06 PM PST US From: Lee Steensland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate Wicks is pushing Zinc Oxide now, so I got a few rattle cans of that to try. I too worry about the longevity of my lungs breathing Zn-Cr so I'll try this. I have also heard good things about self-etching primer as well (albeit a little more expensive than Zn oxide). Art Gibeaut wrote: > > I started the kit with Zn-Cr which was applied to only one surface. I did not like the potential health related issues and after reading dozens of opinions on this and other sites decided to switch to Self Etching Primer in a rattle can that I buy from NAPA Auto. I tested the stuff for resilience, and it is pretty good, and have used it throughout. I'm done with the tail, wings, and rear fuselage on my 701 and I have not regretted it. Just my opinion. > > > --- On Thu, 4/3/08, James E. Lanier wrote: > > >> From: James E. Lanier >> Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate >> To: "Zenith-List Digest List" >> Date: Thursday, April 3, 2008, 4:16 PM >> Lanier" >> >> Zn-Cr >> >> First, does everyone do this on their kits? Do you only >> apply it only to >> the contact surfaces, or the entire inner surfaces? I am >> looking for >> pros and cons. >> >> Jim >> >> > > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > > -- Lee Steensland 601XL/Corvair (7637L reserved) Kit/Scratch builder 0.0% complete! ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:47 PM PST US From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Twist Terry, That is how it checked mine main spar at 9 deg and level then rear spar ended up not level. From forward outboard to rear inboard about 10mm off. Thanks to all for the help! David ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bill of Sale From: "Tim Juhl" Do you have the original owners bill of sale from Zenith? You'll need that to show continuity. The bill of sale needs to have language similar to what is on the FAA version. The bill of sale from the estate of the previous owner should follow the same format. You don't have to use the FAA form. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174689#174689 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:02 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Elevator Limits (Cessna 172) all the 150s I flew were 40 while all the 152s were 30. May have to do with the model? I've rented various 152s of which some of them had 40 degrees of flap and others were only 30 degrees. Neither were aerobats or anything. I figured it was just some design change that had occurred from one year to the next. Tim Juhl wrote: > The increase in gross weight was one of the reasons cited. Another was the problem some pilots experienced if they initiated a go-around with full flaps extended. There was also the long standing concern about full flaps blanking the tail in a forward slip although I've intentionally tried to make that happen with no success. > > One of the things that surprised me was in checking aileron control movement was that you used to be able to turn the wheel 90 to either side while on the 1985 model you were hitting the stops at maybe 50. Now - I will admit I did not take a protractor and measure actual aileron deflections so maybe the change wasn't that extreme. Anyone who has flown a very early 172 and a 1985 or later model knows that they are two very different machines. > > Tim > do not archive -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173914#173914 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bill of Sale From: "Tommy Walker" Tim, Thanks for responding. The original owner has an invoice from ZAC. They don't supply a Bill Of Sale until you ask for it. ZAC has a modified version of the Bill of Sale (BOS) that indicates that a KIT was sold, not an aircraft. I am trying to get a copy of the ZAC BOS so that I can get the owner's executor to sign it. Anyway, a member of the list forwarded me a scanned copy of his BOS and I will create my own using that as a guide. Thanks for your help guys. Now if anyone can put me in touch with a good/reliable/cheap engine for this project, I will be much obliged. : Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive Tim Juhl wrote: > Do you have the original owners bill of sale from Zenith? You'll need that to show continuity. The bill of sale needs to have language similar to what is on the FAA version. The bill of sale from the estate of the previous owner should follow the same format. You don't have to use the FAA form. > > Tim -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174699#174699 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:17 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Zenith-List: 7H1-1 Dimensions Hi all I need help. Been trying to determine the vertical location of the lightening holes for 7H1-1, does the parallel lines in the print mean centered equal distances from top and bottom? Most all of the other ribs define some vertical dimension but for this case I can not seem to find one. Art 701 Scratch-in' ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:43 PM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bill of Sale Unless you have an "N" number, there is no FAA "Bill of Sale" form.Your just buying a box full of aluminum. Any kind of generic bill of sales form will do for your records. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:04 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Twist The biggest problem is if you build two wings on a bent bench and they both have the same twist. your twist should be ok The problem is magnified if you built two wings with the same twist. you end up with LE of one wing up and TE of other wing up. When you set up your struts you can fix a minor twist. the two inboard mounts are set up and you the set up front strut and if needed twist wing and setup rear strut to repair twist. Graemecns ----- Original Message ----- From: Trainnut01@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 6:27 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Twist David The trailing edge of my left wing is twisted up 8mm at the outboard end. The right trailing edge is twisted up 12mm at the outboard end. Chris told me to leave them alone. If they were twisted in opposite directions his answer might have been different. Carroll do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 3/04/2008 6:36 PM ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:08 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Zodiac XL Hi Mark, I agree with most of your comments on the differences between Cessnas and Zodiacs, but I think you missed the basic airplane quality that causes the difference - inertia. As planes get heavier they have more inertia, and it is the inertia that causes response to be delayed from control input. It is nice to get instant response to control inputs, but the other side of the coin is you get a stable platform for things like instrument flight. You also gain payload as you gain weight, and this is important if you want to fly around with more than 2 people and very little baggage. I think the Zodiac is a wonderful plane for recreational flying and learning to fly. If you want to fly for business or commercial reasons, or you find yourself heading a large family, then a larger and heavier plane will be a much better choice. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 07:37 AM 4/2/2008, you wrote: >If you have flown Cessna's all you life keep this in mind, the Cessna is >a reactive flight, you input controls and wait for the plane to catch >up. After awhile you realize this issue and it becomes the norm so you >are less prone to over input controls. The 601 is instant, you input >controls which are light and have little to no lag before the plane >follows your moves. It takes little to no time to understand this and >you will realize just how responsive the plane is. Though it is very >easy to fly and learn on. Typically I say that It is a plane that you >can learn on and not one you will readily outgrow. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 7H1-1 Dimensions From: "stepinwolf" Art, Please don't take me to task with this, but I believe the holes are to be centered between each side. The reason I came to this conclusion is because of the two small slash marks on each side of the line that defines the width. If you look closely, you will see the two slash lines on each side, indicating that what ever is between these marks is to be centered. Bob the 701 scratch do not archive -------- Live each day, as if it was your last Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174733#174733 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:34 PM PST US From: Doug Eatman Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith - the choice of celebrities! List members, As I walked through the "commons room" this evening, the eternally blaring television caught my eye. On screen was an animation of Jay Maynard, the very same Jay Maynard on this Zenith list, being eaten by a Panda bear. Although I can't say I'm a fan of raunchy Comedy Central cartoons, this officially makes Zenith Aircraft the vehicle of choice for TV celebrities. It's a small world. All in fun, Doug Eatman 601XL TD do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Going green? 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