Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - Re: brs chute handle (Mark Colbeck)
2. 06:22 AM - Re: Zenith - the choice of celebrities! (Jay Maynard)
3. 06:22 AM - Putting together a list of Training 601XLs (Gig Giacona)
4. 06:45 AM - Re: deburring tool (David Barth)
5. 08:24 AM - Re: Glue for canopy seal strip (John Goodings)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: Zinc Chromate (messydeer)
7. 08:38 AM - Looking for a 701 amphib (Ces701@aol.com)
8. 08:59 AM - Re: Wing Twist (n85ae)
9. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: Glue for canopy seal strip (Bill Steer)
10. 09:11 AM - Re: Nose Dolly for 701 (MacDonald Doug)
11. 09:46 AM - Re: Nose Dolly for 701 (Stanley Challgren)
12. 09:46 AM - Re: O-200 prop (Clive Richards)
13. 10:14 AM - Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Larry Hursh)
14. 10:45 AM - Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (ashontz)
15. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (LarryMcFarland)
16. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: AMD Zodiac XL (Juan Vega)
17. 12:24 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (messydeer)
18. 12:33 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Tim Juhl)
19. 01:06 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (skyridersbn)
20. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Craig Payne)
21. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (James E. Lanier)
22. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Kevin Bonds)
23. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Kevin Bonds)
24. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Stephen R. Look)
25. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (Frank Roskind)
26. 02:05 PM - Off To Sun-N-Fun Next Week (DaveG601XL)
27. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Bob Sturgis)
28. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Larry Hursh)
29. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: AMD Zodiac XL (rsteele@rjsit.com)
30. 02:16 PM - Re: Off To Sun-N-Fun Next Week (mwtucker)
31. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (James E. Lanier)
32. 02:24 PM - Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (ashontz)
33. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: AMD Zodiac XL (Juan Vega)
34. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Kevin Bonds)
35. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (ihab.awad@gmail.com)
36. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP (James E. Lanier)
37. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (MaxNr@aol.com)
38. 03:29 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Tim Juhl)
39. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) (Bob Sturgis)
40. 06:21 PM - Re: Off To Sun-N-Fun Next Week (leinad)
41. 06:29 PM - Canopy Seal and other Rubber parts (leinad)
42. 08:53 PM - Re: Re: 7H1-1 Dimensions (Art Olechowski)
43. 11:40 PM - EAA pancake breakfast Lawrenceville Ga (James E. Lanier)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: brs chute handle |
I would love to see some installation photos as well if you can.
--------
CH701
70% Complete
www.mykitlog.com/mcolbeck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174772#174772
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith - the choice of celebrities! |
On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 11:50:31PM -0400, Doug Eatman wrote:
> As I walked through the "commons room" this evening, the eternally blaring
> television caught my eye. On screen was an animation of Jay Maynard, the
> very same Jay Maynard on this Zenith list, being eaten by a Panda bear.
> Although I can't say I'm a fan of raunchy Comedy Central cartoons, this
> officially makes Zenith Aircraft the vehicle of choice for TV celebrities.
>
> It's a small world.
There's a reason N55ZC will have that particular color scheme. (See
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com/329317.html and
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com/330843.html for pictures and discussion.) I
just sent AMD a sample of the green paint I used for the costume, to be used
to get a matching color for the airplane.
I'm not particularly a fan of South Park either - it seems to me to be
little more than an excuse to have 8-year-olds cussing like stevedores on
national TV, with terrible animation to boot - but that episode wasn't too
terrible. I do wish they'd brought me in to do the voice, though; the one
they gave me was rather badly wrong.
For those folks who can get Comedy Central, the episode will be rerun for
the next several days. It's episode 1204, Canada on Strike!. The schedule
can be found at
http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_schedule/index.jhtml?seriesId=11600&forever=please
If you're in the US, and can't get Comedy Central on cable, you can see the
episode on line at http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/ . Be sure to
select the right episode by name.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Putting together a list of Training 601XLs |
I'd like to put together a list of 601XLs that are available for training/renting.
I'll host the list on my website. What I need is for anyone that knows of
one to send me any info you have.
Location, Airport Ident, Web site for the FBO, phone number and anything else you
might thing is useful.
Instead of clogging up the list please e-mail them directly to wrgiacona@gmail.com
Please try and put "Available 601" in the subject line.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174778#174778
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| Subject: | Re: deburring tool |
Lee I would never use these on sheet myself. Too slow
and I would like to see exactly how much material they
remove from a home in .016 material. The vixen file I
like the best for speed AND not removing material past
flush. Just my 2 cents mind you.
Now, being the skeptic that I am, I
> thought I would pass
> this along to see what other non-sales people think.
> The sales guy
> mentioned that I should order "Positive rake
> blades".
>
> I might just buy one and try it on some scrap before
> I fully get to
> gettin'.
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Glue for canopy seal strip |
Dave Nixon: I have mentioned this before, but we had very good luck with
Crazy Glue/Super Glue (some sort of cyanoacrylate derivative) for gluing
smooth rubber seal strip to our lucite/perspex (some sort of methyl
methacrylate derivative) canopy edge. Use very little of the watery Crazy
Glue in the rubber channel, spread it with a little paint brush, and push
on the rubber onto the lucite. After a few seconds, you can't move it
further. It sticks like magic! Work your way along the canopy edge in
8-12 inch bits. Don't get excess glue onto the lucite. Most important:
practice a bit on something that doesn't matter. The strips around our
canopy edge haven't budged at all in 5 years - temperatures -30 to +100
degrees. DO NOT ARCHIVE.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Ottawa/Carp
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate |
The bleeding issue is with zn chromate on the exterior, right? I've used it on
all interior surfaces so far (wings, tail feathers). The spray cans sure leave
dust all over the shop, too.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174790#174790
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| Subject: | Looking for a 701 amphib |
Hello All
There have been a number of recent queries about the
availability of amphibian 701's. I have decided I will sell
mine. I'm located in central Florida, about 90 miles north of Sun & Fun.
Those interested please contact me offline for info, pictures, etc.
Charlie
_ces701@aol.com_ (mailto:ces701@aol.com)
do not archive
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 8
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Drill out the rivets on the top or bottom (low wing do the bottom,
high wing 801/701 the top) pop the skins. twist it straight and
jig it in place (a laser level is a great help for this). redrill with #20
and re-rivet with A5's. That's the best way.
Once painted the A5's are hardly noticeable.
I completely unriveted the top skin on my 801 wing in two hours
to fix a mistake I made. Just drill the tops off the rivets, then pop the skin
by sliding a plastic putty knife between the skin and the ribs to pop it
off the rivet stubs, then pull the rivet stems from the backside with pliers.
I didn't damage a single hole on the entire wing with this method, and
I did it on two wings so I consider myself an authority on un-rivetting :)
It's a single weekend job to fix your mistake, so not a big deal.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174800#174800
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| Subject: | Re: Glue for canopy seal strip |
Several people have also used Poly-Zap with success. You can get it at
a good hobby shop.
Bill
>
> Dave Nixon: I have mentioned this before, but we had very good luck
> with Crazy Glue/Super Glue (some sort of cyanoacrylate derivative) for
> gluing smooth rubber seal strip to our lucite/perspex (some sort of
> methyl methacrylate derivative) canopy edge. Use very little of the
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nose Dolly for 701 |
Stan, I have a little more headroom that you but not
much. I can just put my rudder on and clear the
ceiling by about half an inch. Trouble was, I had a
bad seal in my front wheel rim and my tire would go
flat after a few days and push the rudder into the
ceiling. My solution was to use a car wheel ramp to
lift the nose up. It worked well but was not easy to
move the fuselage. Once I was done mounting the
rudder, I moved it into safe starage and didn't have
to worry about it.
Since then I have fixed the leaking rim and made some
simple dollies out of some scrap 2X4 and small
casters. This lifts the three wheels about two inches
off the floor. With some larger casters or some minor
adjustment to the design, it should be possible to
make them lift enough to give you your clearance.
My dollies are a simple box design with the 2X4s on
the flat. Overlap the corners so that the cross
pieces are on the bottom. Screw the castering wheels
to the corners and then you can move your fuse in any
direction.
Hope this description is of help. If you need a pic,
let me know offline and I can take a couple.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Skinning wings
Do Not Archive
--- Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com> wrote:
> <challgren@mac.com>
>
> 701'ers:
>
> I now have my 701 on its gear and have discovered
> that the rudder is
> higher than my garage ceiling so that the nose gear
> must be in the air
> all the time. I would like to not reinvent the
> wheel with this
> project so am wondering if some imaginative builder
> has any
> suggestions for an inexpensive and practical nose
> dolly that will
> raise the nose gear about 6 inches on a permanent
> basis and have the
> capability of about another foot when going in and
> out of the garage/
> hangar.
>
> My garage ceiling is 98" and it appears my tail will
> be about the
> nominal 103" as stated in the plans.
>
> Appreciate any thoughts.
>
> Stan
> N701VG (reserved)
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Nose Dolly for 701 |
Doug:
Thanks much for your ideas. On the way to acquire materials.
Stan
On Apr 4, 2008, at 10:08 AM, MacDonald Doug wrote:
> <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
>
> Stan, I have a little more headroom that you but not
> much. I can just put my rudder on and clear the
> ceiling by about half an inch. Trouble was, I had a
> bad seal in my front wheel rim and my tire would go
> flat after a few days and push the rudder into the
> ceiling. My solution was to use a car wheel ramp to
> lift the nose up. It worked well but was not easy to
> move the fuselage. Once I was done mounting the
> rudder, I moved it into safe starage and didn't have
> to worry about it.
>
> Since then I have fixed the leaking rim and made some
> simple dollies out of some scrap 2X4 and small
> casters. This lifts the three wheels about two inches
> off the floor. With some larger casters or some minor
> adjustment to the design, it should be possible to
> make them lift enough to give you your clearance.
>
> My dollies are a simple box design with the 2X4s on
> the flat. Overlap the corners so that the cross
> pieces are on the bottom. Screw the castering wheels
> to the corners and then you can move your fuse in any
> direction.
>
> Hope this description is of help. If you need a pic,
> let me know offline and I can take a couple.
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch Builder
> NW Ontario, Canada
> Skinning wings
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> --- Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com> wrote:
Message 12
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On Rays HD we are now using a 66 inch 3 Blade nickel protected leading
edge Warp Drive HP Hub set at 13 degrees. Originally we had a 68 inch
wooden prop but trimmed 1/8 inch off the tip while taxing & the
manufacturer is no longer in business to replace.
G-CBDG 601Hd cont 0-200 192Hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: LHusky@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: O-200 prop
I am trying to get my FWF together for the O-200 engine and I am
wondering what some of you guys are using for a prop.
Larry Husky
N667H (Reserved)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 13
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| Subject: | Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
>From what I can understand after talking with Wick's Aircraft, the zinc chromate IS being phased out for exactly what you said: health reasons. What is replacing it is zinc oxide. I've ordered 4 cans of it. I'll soon find out more about it. Here is their website if your interested: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=10643~subid=3911/index.html
Wicks does NOT charge any Haz Mat charges for shipping ORD but it can not ship
via air. It has to go ground only. The cost is $8.18 a can. They offer it
in the standard drab green and now also in yellow.
Hope this helps you.
Regards,
Larry Hursh
CH601XL (Building from Kits - Just beginning)
(N601LL Reserved)
SkyriderSBN@Yahoo.com
Keep your eyes skyward - always!
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP |
That's an interesting equation. Do you have more info on it. Reminds me of the
rule of thumb, 25% more power to go 10% faster.
jim.lanier(at)charter.net wrote:
> I chose to work the numbers to get an approximation of the cruise performance
of 100hp vs 80hp engines.
> The Cd x A product was chosen to equal the Zenith website results for 100hp.
If 100hp yields 134mph, then
> 80hp would achieve 124.35mph. This will at least get you in the ballpark. There
are so many variables, that it is difficult to
> get exact figures.
>
> The Cd x A product would be greater at reduced velocity due to increased angle
of attack. The wing lift is greater at reduced velocity
> due to the lift vector angle deviating more aft of the normal force. The thrust
vector angle also deviates slightly.
> The weight of the 80hp engine would be (you would think) lower though.
>
>
> [img]cid:part1.06000300.04080300@charter.net[/img]
>
>
> [img]cid:part2.01090109.07030905@charter.net[/img]
>
>
> Jim
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174819#174819
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate |
No Dan,
The zinc chromate inside a wing will wick out between edges and discolor
your primer and final color if the finish coat isn't solid cover. Even the
wash-etch prior to prime will have a yellow stain flowing from the wing
during a rinse. I the case of an etch that needs to be primed within 8
hours,
it's unlikely that the inside of the wing will be dry enough to keep the
zinc chromate from seeping out into your primer. Best advice, try a sample
of your paint over zinc chromate before actually doing it.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
messydeer wrote:
>
> The bleeding issue is with zn chromate on the exterior, right? I've used it on
all interior surfaces so far (wings, tail feathers). The spray cans sure leave
dust all over the shop, too.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: AMD Zodiac XL |
Paul,
I must say your statement of using the Zodiac for just fun is way off Base. WAY
OFF BASE!
In six months I have put 1000 hours on my Zodiac XL mostly for cross country Business
Travel. I own a business in Miami with my family that is normally a 4
hour car drive and my other business, Commrcial realestate takes me all over the
state.
The XL is perfect for running around the state for meeting people. Most people
will meet you at the airport and most FBOs have great meeting and conferance
rooms.
The plane burns 4.5 to 5 galons per hour and is easy to fly and maintain.
Typical day for me is take off at 7 am for a meeting in Miami. 1.5hrs later i
am in Miami, do my thing and fly back before dinner to St. Peterssburg. Trip
time total is 3 hrs and half a tank of Gas.
SO. Whats this about just a fun fly plane. WAy Off BAse!
Juan Vega
601 XL 3300 engine
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
>Sent: Apr 3, 2008 10:54 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Zodiac XL
>
>
>Hi Mark,
>
>I agree with most of your comments on the differences between Cessnas
>and Zodiacs, but I think you missed the basic airplane quality that
>causes the difference - inertia.
>
>As planes get heavier they have more inertia, and it is the inertia
>that causes response to be delayed from control input. It is nice to
>get instant response to control inputs, but the other side of the
>coin is you get a stable platform for things like instrument
>flight. You also gain payload as you gain weight, and this is
>important if you want to fly around with more than 2 people and very
>little baggage.
>
>I think the Zodiac is a wonderful plane for recreational flying and
>learning to fly. If you want to fly for business or commercial
>reasons, or you find yourself heading a large family, then a larger
>and heavier plane will be a much better choice.
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>do not archive
>
>
>At 07:37 AM 4/2/2008, you wrote:
>>If you have flown Cessna's all you life keep this in mind, the Cessna is
>>a reactive flight, you input controls and wait for the plane to catch
>>up. After awhile you realize this issue and it becomes the norm so you
>>are less prone to over input controls. The 601 is instant, you input
>>controls which are light and have little to no lag before the plane
>>follows your moves. It takes little to no time to understand this and
>>you will realize just how responsive the plane is. Though it is very
>>easy to fly and learn on. Typically I say that It is a plane that you
>>can learn on and not one you will readily outgrow.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate |
Thanks, Larry :-(
I've used the green zn chromate both from Tempo and Orr-Lac. I suppose that would
do the same? I'm planning on trying a polishing job first and if that doesn't
look good enough (which may be caused by dings yet undung), I'd paint.
There are a few areas where I ran out of the zn chromate and used a couple spray
cans of SEM Promax 61103 Gray Primer. It only says 'general purpose enamel
for metal,...' and was what the autobody store recommended.
So it looks like I should read through this topic a bit more in detail. I chose
zn chromate for it's corrosion resistance, price, and ease of application (rattle
cans).
Cheers!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174834#174834
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
I bought 4 cans of Zinc Oxide from aircraft spruce (not all at the same time.)
For some reason I was never able to use a full can before it got plugged up beyond
recovery. I gave up and use SEM self etching primer on internal mating
parts.
In general I would say that primers containing zinc would offer better corrosion
protection but then again 6061 is pretty corrosion resistant by itself.
Tim
do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
Hey Tim,
It sounds like you might not be clearing the nozzle after each time you use it.
Over time, the nozzle will plug up so badly, nothing will come out of it. To
clear it, turn the can upside down and spray it until it comes out with only
air. Do that each time you use it and you should be able to use the entire can
next time. This works with any spray cans of paint you are trying to use too.
Hope this helps you.
Regards
--------
Larry Hursh (N601LL Reserved)
CH601XL - 100 HP Corvair Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174839#174839
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
I also bought some rattle cans of Zinc Oxide from Spruce. I shook the heck
out of them to mix them but both clogged on the first squirt. Nothing I
could do cleared them. Now I just buy the quart cans. Mix it one-to-one with
the reducer:
PTI ZINC OXD PRIMER GRN QT 09-00962 $46.80
PTI 1022X66 REDUCER QT 09-00956 $14.60
www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ptispecialtypaint.php
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP |
Hi Andy,
Sure. Here it is...
Fd = (1/2)(dens)(v^2)(A)(Cd)
Pwr = (Fd)(v) or Pwr = (1/2)(dens)(v^3)(A)(Cd)
dens = 1.293 kg/m^3 at 0C and 1 atmosphere
Fd = drag force in Newtons (kg m/sec^2) (Isaac and I go way back..we
used to go to different schools together :) )
v = velocity m/s
A = cross sectional area in m^2
Cd = drag coefficient
Pwr = power in watts (kg m^2/sec^3)
I don't know what Cd is (or A for that matter), but they are a product
in the formula. So although they may both be wrong, their product is OK.
You could say that this is a normalized solution.
Note: You can convert the drag and power formulas to Engish units if you
want, but I prefer to do everything in metric and convert afterwards.
Note in the spreadsheet examples above
that I converted Watts to HP after the equation was resolved.
Jim
ashontz wrote:
>
> That's an interesting equation. Do you have more info on it. Reminds me of the
rule of thumb, 25% more power to go 10% faster.
>
>
> jim.lanier(at)charter.net wrote:
>
>> I chose to work the numbers to get an approximation of the cruise performance
of 100hp vs 80hp engines.
>> The Cd x A product was chosen to equal the Zenith website results for 100hp.
If 100hp yields 134mph, then
>> 80hp would achieve 124.35mph. This will at least get you in the ballpark. There
are so many variables, that it is difficult to
>> get exact figures.
>>
>> The Cd x A product would be greater at reduced velocity due to increased angle
of attack. The wing lift is greater at reduced velocity
>> due to the lift vector angle deviating more aft of the normal force. The thrust
vector angle also deviates slightly.
>> The weight of the 80hp engine would be (you would think) lower though.
>>
>>
>> [img]cid:part1.06000300.04080300@charter.net[/img]
>>
>>
>> [img]cid:part2.01090109.07030905@charter.net[/img]
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174819#174819
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
I have this problem with the tempo Zinc Oxide I use (valve plugging up).
I have to take the valve off sometimes and re-seat it. Just basically
pull it off and put it back on. It seems that they plug up if you press
too hard on the valve. I just barely squeeze until paint comes out. It
is very annoying at times though.
Kevin Bonds
Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> I bought 4 cans of Zinc Oxide from aircraft spruce (not all at the same time.)
For some reason I was never able to use a full can before
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
Larry
No, this dosen't seem to help or have anything to do with the cause.
These cans are defective or something. They will plug up on first use
within a couple of minutes. Very finicky.
Kevin Bonds
skyridersbn wrote:
>
> Hey Tim,
> It sounds like you might not be clearing the
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
Same thing happens to me all the time. I have found it happens more
often if spraying at anything other than with the can straight up.
When it does happen, I have a can of brake cleaner and put the spray
tube into the can end of the nozzle and blow out the clog. After the
nozzle goes back into the can, a couple of sprays into the air clears
the nozzle of brake cleaner and everything is good until the next
time. When done with the primer, I turn the can over and spay until
the nozzle is clear.
Steve
At 03:07 PM 4/4/2008, you wrote:
>
>I have this problem with the tempo Zinc Oxide I use (valve plugging
>up). I have to take the valve off sometimes and re-seat it.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP |
I don't know what is wrong with the calculatinos, but something would have
to be. If all the power were used to offset parasitic drag, then the drag
increases with the square of velocity. The ratio of velocities would then
be the square root of the ratio of power, or @sqrt(80/100), using quattro p
ro, which is roughly89.44%, resuting in an 80 hp velocity of 119.85 mph if
the 100 hp velocity were 134 mph. The other main component of drag, induce
d drag, decreases with increased velocity but is small at velocities signif
icantly above stall speed, so the actual 80 hp cruise speed would likely be
a little less than 119 mph.
list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with
80HP
Hi Andy,Sure. Here it is...Fd = (1/2)(dens)(v^2)(A)(Cd)Pwr = (Fd)(v) or
Pwr = (1/2)(dens)(v^3)(A)(Cd)dens = 1.293 kg/m^3 at 0=B0C and 1 atmosp
hereFd = drag force in Newtons (kg m/sec^2) (Isaac and I go way back..w
e used to go to different schools together :) )v = velocity m/sA = cros
s sectional area in m^2Cd = drag coefficient Pwr = power in watts (kg m
^2/sec^3)I don't know what Cd is (or A for that matter), but they are a pro
duct in the formula. So although they may both be wrong, their product is O
K.You could say that this is a normalized solution. Note: You can convert t
he drag and power formulas to Engish units if you want, but I prefer to do
everything in metric and convert afterwards. Note in the spreadsheet exampl
es abovethat I converted Watts to HP after the equation was resolved.Jimash
ontz wrote:
That's an interesting equation. Do you have more info on it. Reminds me of
the rule of thumb, 25% more power to go 10% faster.
jim.lanier(at)charter.net wrote:
I chose to work the numbers to get an approximation of the cruise performan
ce of 100hp vs 80hp engines.
The Cd x A product was chosen to equal the Zenith website results for 100h
p. If 100hp yields 134mph, then
80hp would achieve 124.35mph. This will at least get you in the ballpark.
There are so many variables, that it is difficult to
get exact figures.
The Cd x A product would be greater at reduced velocity due to increased a
ngle of attack. The wing lift is greater at reduced velocity
due to the lift vector angle deviating more aft of the normal force. The t
hrust vector angle also deviates slightly.
The weight of the 80hp engine would be (you would think) lower though.
[img]cid:part1.06000300.04080300@charter.net[/img]
[img]cid:part2.01090109.07030905@charter.net[/img]
Jim
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174819#174819
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| Subject: | Off To Sun-N-Fun Next Week |
I will be headed to Sun-N-Fun next week, by myself, for the first time. I will
be staying in the on-site campground with a car and a tent. Do any of you veteran
Zenith builders who go to Sun-N-Fun regularly try to camp in a particular
area to be together? Since I am going by myself it would be nice to camp near
some fellow Zenith matronics posters.
Should be fun!
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, all major assemblies complete. Have run the engine and am starting final
assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174849#174849
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
Do you shake the cans for at least 2 minutes? It takes a lot to mix the can. If
it is cold, get it to at least 72deg F and then shake it for all its worth until
you feel your arm is going to fall off and than go for another minute beyond
that, and it may still stick if a small poetical has not dissolved and mixed
from the shaking. The ball has to move all over the can, shake, swirl, move
it in all directions fast.
Bob
----- Original Message ----
From: Kevin Bonds <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 1:22:16 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide)
Larry
No, this dosen't seem to help or have anything to do with the cause.
These cans are defective or something. They will plug up on first use
within a couple of minutes. Very finicky.
Kevin Bonds
skyridersbn wrote:
>
> Hey Tim,
> It sounds like you might not be clearing the
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
Hey Kevin,
If I have the same trouble with the ones I just recieved, I will be calling Wicks
for a full refund. At least I know there are quart cans and reducer available
for it now.
If they give me trouble - their outta here!
Regards,
Larry Hursh
CH601XL (Building from Kits - Just beginning)
(N601LL Reserved)
SkyriderSBN@Yahoo.com
Keep your eyes skyward - always!
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: AMD Zodiac XL |
Juan,
I think a lot of us are waiting with great interest to hear how your
plane and engine hold up over time.
This is so much more flying than most could dream of doing. Would you
care to share you maintenance schedule? At this rate, you may be ready
to overhaul the Jab in another 6 months!
Keep us posted, and fly safe.
Ron
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Zodiac XL
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Paul,
I must say your statement of using the Zodiac for just fun is way off
Base. WAY OFF BASE!
In six months I have put 1000 hours on my Zodiac XL mostly for cross
country Business Travel. I own a business in Miami with my family that
is normally a 4 hour car drive and my other business, Commrcial
realestate takes me all over the state.
The XL is perfect for running around the state for meeting people. Most
people will meet you at the airport and most FBOs have great meeting and
conferance rooms.
The plane burns 4.5 to 5 galons per hour and is easy to fly and
maintain.
Typical day for me is take off at 7 am for a meeting in Miami. 1.5hrs
later i am in Miami, do my thing and fly back before dinner to St.
Peterssburg. Trip time total is 3 hrs and half a tank of Gas.
SO. Whats this about just a fun fly plane. WAy Off BAse!
Juan Vega
601 XL 3300 engine
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
>Sent: Apr 3, 2008 10:54 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Zodiac XL
>
>
>Hi Mark,
>
>I agree with most of your comments on the differences between Cessnas
>and Zodiacs, but I think you missed the basic airplane quality that
>causes the difference - inertia.
>
>As planes get heavier they have more inertia, and it is the inertia
>that causes response to be delayed from control input. It is nice to
>get instant response to control inputs, but the other side of the
>coin is you get a stable platform for things like instrument
>flight. You also gain payload as you gain weight, and this is
>important if you want to fly around with more than 2 people and very
>little baggage.
>
>I think the Zodiac is a wonderful plane for recreational flying and
>learning to fly. If you want to fly for business or commercial
>reasons, or you find yourself heading a large family, then a larger
>and heavier plane will be a much better choice.
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>do not archive
>
>
>At 07:37 AM 4/2/2008, you wrote:
>>If you have flown Cessna's all you life keep this in mind, the Cessna is
>>a reactive flight, you input controls and wait for the plane to catch
>>up. After awhile you realize this issue and it becomes the norm so you
>>are less prone to over input controls. The 601 is instant, you input
>>controls which are light and have little to no lag before the plane
>>follows your moves. It takes little to no time to understand this and
>>you will realize just how responsive the plane is. Though it is very
>>easy to fly and learn on. Typically I say that It is a plane that you
>>can learn on and not one you will readily outgrow.
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Off To Sun-N-Fun Next Week |
I'm going to Sun-n-Fun on Thursday and Friday... My first time, and I will be
by myself too... I will be staying at a nearby hotel... Would be great to meet
some other 601XL builders....
Please feel free to call me on my cell.
Mike (704) 905-0513 (cell #)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174853#174853
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP |
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP |
Thanks.
Actually, the 25% more power=10% faster is pretty accurate. Let's say the 80hp
speed was 122, 100hp speed would then be 122 x 1.1 = 134.2mph. Scaling backwards,
the ratio is .9090909090 on speed and a 20% reduction in power, 100hp down
to 80hp.
Would that mean a 65hp VW could push an XL at 110mph? Maybe.
An old boat I used to have at one time had a 140hp Johnson on it, it did 50mph
in that configuration. With a 70hp Evinrude, it did 36. That was a measured fact,
the boat did in fact top out at 50 with a 140 on it, and it topped out at
36 with a 70hp on it.
140hp X .80 = 112hp x .8 = 89hp x .8 = 71.2hp
50mph x .909090 = 45.5mpg x .909090 = 41.3mph x .909090 = 37.5mph
Damn, those numbers are pretty close. Interesting isn't it.
frankroskind(at)HOTMAIL.C wrote:
> I don't know what is wrong with the calculatinos, but something would have to
be. If all the power were used to offset parasitic drag, then the drag increases
with the square of velocity. The ratio of velocities would then be the square
root of the ratio of power, or @sqrt(80/100), using quattro pro, which is
roughly89.44%, resuting in an 80 hp velocity of 119.85 mph if the 100 hp velocity
were 134 mph. The other main component of drag, induced drag, decreases
with increased velocity but is small at velocities significantly above stall
speed, so the actual 80 hp cruise speed would likely be a little less than 119
mph.
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 16:06:05 -0500
> > From: jim.lanier@charter.net
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP
> >
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> > Sure. Here it is...
> >
> > Fd = (1/2)(dens)(v^2)(A)(Cd)
> > Pwr = (Fd)(v) or Pwr = (1/2)(dens)(v^3)(A)(Cd)
> >
> >
> > dens = 1.293 kg/m^3 at 0?C and 1 atmosphere
> > Fd = drag force in Newtons (kg m/sec^2) (Isaac and I go way back..we used
to go to different schools together :) )
> > v = velocity m/s
> > A = cross sectional area in m^2
> > Cd = drag coefficient
> > Pwr = power in watts (kg m^2/sec^3)
> >
> > [img]cid:part1.02060307.01030401@charter.net[/img]
> >
> > [img]cid:part2.07080208.03080203@charter.net[/img]
> >
> > I don't know what Cd is (or A for that matter), but they are a product in the
formula. So although they may both be wrong, their product is OK.
> > You could say that this is a normalized solution.
> >
> > Note: You can convert the drag and power formulas to Engish units if you want,
but I prefer to do everything in metric and convert afterwards. Note in the
spreadsheet examples above
> > that I converted Watts to HP after the equation was resolved.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ashontz wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > That's an interesting equation. Do you have more info on it. Reminds me
of the rule of thumb, 25% more power to go 10% faster.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > jim.lanier(at)charter.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I chose to work the numbers to get an approximation of the cruise performance
of 100hp vs 80hp engines.
> > > > > The Cd x A product was chosen to equal the Zenith website results for
100hp. If 100hp yields 134mph, then
> > > > > 80hp would achieve 124.35mph. This will at least get you in the ballpark.
There are so many variables, that it is difficult to
> > > > > get exact figures.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Cd x A product would be greater at reduced velocity due to increased
angle of attack. The wing lift is greater at reduced velocity
> > > > > due to the lift vector angle deviating more aft of the normal force.
The thrust vector angle also deviates slightly.
> > > > > The weight of the 80hp engine would be (you would think) lower though.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [img]cid:part1.06000300.04080300@charter.net[/img]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [img]cid:part2.01090109.07030905@charter.net[/img]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > --------
> > > > Andy Shontz
> > > > CH601XL - Corvair
> > > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz (http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Read this topic online here:
> > > >
> > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174819#174819 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174819#174819)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174857#174857
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: AMD Zodiac XL |
at 100 hours the following has been done.
oil changes every 25 hours
tighten head bolts twice before 50 hrs
changed the plugs to resistor plugs
thats it.
plane is running strong.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: rsteele@rjsit.com
>Sent: Apr 4, 2008 5:12 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Zodiac XL
>
>
>Juan,
> I think a lot of us are waiting with great interest to hear how your
>plane and engine hold up over time.
>This is so much more flying than most could dream of doing. Would you
>care to share you maintenance schedule? At this rate, you may be ready
>to overhaul the Jab in another 6 months!
>
>Keep us posted, and fly safe.
>Ron
>
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Zodiac XL
>From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>Date: Fri, April 04, 2008 12:02 pm
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>
>Paul,
>I must say your statement of using the Zodiac for just fun is way off
>Base. WAY OFF BASE!
>
>In six months I have put 1000 hours on my Zodiac XL mostly for cross
>country Business Travel. I own a business in Miami with my family that
>is normally a 4 hour car drive and my other business, Commrcial
>realestate takes me all over the state.
>
>The XL is perfect for running around the state for meeting people. Most
>people will meet you at the airport and most FBOs have great meeting and
>conferance rooms.
>
>The plane burns 4.5 to 5 galons per hour and is easy to fly and
>maintain.
>Typical day for me is take off at 7 am for a meeting in Miami. 1.5hrs
>later i am in Miami, do my thing and fly back before dinner to St.
>Peterssburg. Trip time total is 3 hrs and half a tank of Gas.
>
>SO. Whats this about just a fun fly plane. WAy Off BAse!
>
>Juan Vega
>601 XL 3300 engine
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
>>Sent: Apr 3, 2008 10:54 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Zodiac XL
>>
>>
>>Hi Mark,
>>
>>I agree with most of your comments on the differences between Cessnas
>>and Zodiacs, but I think you missed the basic airplane quality that
>>causes the difference - inertia.
>>
>>As planes get heavier they have more inertia, and it is the inertia
>>that causes response to be delayed from control input. It is nice to
>>get instant response to control inputs, but the other side of the
>>coin is you get a stable platform for things like instrument
>>flight. You also gain payload as you gain weight, and this is
>>important if you want to fly around with more than 2 people and very
>>little baggage.
>>
>>I think the Zodiac is a wonderful plane for recreational flying and
>>learning to fly. If you want to fly for business or commercial
>>reasons, or you find yourself heading a large family, then a larger
>>and heavier plane will be a much better choice.
>>
>>Paul
>>XL fuselage
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>At 07:37 AM 4/2/2008, you wrote:
>>>If you have flown Cessna's all you life keep this in mind, the Cessna is
>>>a reactive flight, you input controls and wait for the plane to catch
>>>up. After awhile you realize this issue and it becomes the norm so you
>>>are less prone to over input controls. The 601 is instant, you input
>>>controls which are light and have little to no lag before the plane
>>>follows your moves. It takes little to no time to understand this and
>>>you will realize just how responsive the plane is. Though it is very
>>>easy to fly and learn on. Typically I say that It is a plane that you
>>>can learn on and not one you will readily outgrow.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
Thanks Bob,
But, yes I do shake the crap out of them. I've used a lot of rattle can
paint and never had this kind of trouble. I do get by though, as I said,
I just pull the nozzle off, and put it back on. They don't seem to clog,
so much as they just become jammed when pressed to hard.
Kevin Bonds
Bob Sturgis wrote:
> Do you shake the cans for at least 2 minutes? It takes a lot to mix
> the can. If it is cold, get it to at least 72deg F and then shake it
> for all its worth until you feel your arm is going to fall off and
> than go for another minute beyond that, and it may still stick if a
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 1:57 PM, Bob Sturgis <bobefx@yahoo.com> wrote:
> shake it for all its worth until you feel your arm is going to fall off ...
Some have apparently tried to come up with a low-buck mechanical solution --
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.crafts.metalworking/2006-07/msg00714.html
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/?action=view¤t=shaker.jpg
Ihab
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL Cruise Speed with 80HP |
Hi Frank,
Those formulas are correct and are standard . In my first post I noted
some of the problems with the comparison dealing with vectors. One thing
to note is that Cd changes with velocity (particularly close to mach).
At the difference in these velocities the Cd change due to velocity is
insignificant, but the Cd change due to attack angle may be significant.
Drag increases with the square of velocity. Power requirement increases
with the CUBE of velocity. Power =(Fd)(v) and since Fd included a
square..it is now a cube.
Jim
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
I won't miss zinc chromate. I'm scared to death of it. I discussed my fears
with a friend who is both an A&P and owns a paint dealership. He advised that I
use Zinc Phosphate. He sells it to the local Naval Air Station (NAS Whiting
field) where they have a few hundred T-34C and TH-57 aircraft to maintain. The
Navy likes it because it won't kill you or the environment. I use it with a
touchup HVLP gun. I still have most of a gallon can and reducer left. I'm no
paint expert, but it goes on like any other primer. I also like Cortec and get
it
from ZAC.
Bob Dingley
601XL Do not archive
**************
Planning your summer road trip? Check
out AOL Travel Guides.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
I've tried all sorts of things to prevent nozzle plugging including removing the
nozzle and soaking it in thinner between uses. Nothing helps.
Sometimes it appears the clog is elsewhere in the mechanism. AC spruce replaced
a couple of cans for free but they clogged too.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174881#174881
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide) |
You must shake the can even while you are painting. If the can is not thoroughly
mixed it will clog down inside the can. shake, shake, shake that is all that
works. Turn the can over when you stop for more than a second or two turn the
can upside down and spray out the remaining in the tube or it will clog.
Bob
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 3:26:30 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zinc Chromate (Phasing out - going to Zinc Oxide)
I've tried all sorts of things to prevent nozzle plugging including removing the
nozzle and soaking it in thinner between uses. Nothing helps.
Sometimes it appears the clog is elsewhere in the mechanism. AC spruce replaced
a couple of cans for free but they clogged too.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174881#174881
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Off To Sun-N-Fun Next Week |
My wife Denise and I'll be there this week too, but not camping. Our Cell # is
434 989-8791.
Dan Dempsey
(601xl/corvair plans builder)
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174898#174898
Message 41
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| Subject: | Canopy Seal and other Rubber parts |
I'm still looking for a good source for the canopy seal and the rubber wing root
fairings. Who sells this stuff?
I got some rubber extrusion that looks like the stuff for the canopy seal from
ACS, but it's only for 1/8 thickness material. My canopy is thicker than that.
Dan Dempsey
601xl with Corvair, plans builder
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174899#174899
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: 7H1-1 Dimensions |
Thanks Bob,
This is what I presume as well but I've never seen parallel marks as such on an
aircraft print
before. I will confirm with Zenith and post it on the list for everyone's knowledge.
do not archive
Art
--- stepinwolf <robert.pelland@cgocable.ca> wrote:
>
> Art,
>
> Please don't take me to task with this, but I believe the holes are to be centered
between each
> side.
>
> The reason I came to this conclusion is because of the two small slash marks
on each side of the
> line that defines the width. If you look closely, you will see the two slash
lines on each
> side, indicating that what ever is between these marks is to be centered.
>
> Bob the 701 scratch
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Live each day, as if it was your last
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174733#174733
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | EAA pancake breakfast Lawrenceville Ga |
Is anyone going to this in Lawrenceville Ga.?
I'll be there. Hope to see some of you.
Jim
*"Flying Start."* Seminar with emphasis on Sport Pilot License & pancake
breakfast, EAA Chapter 690. April 5. Gwinnett County Airport-Briscoe
Field, Lawrenceville, GA. Call 678/770-1877; eaa690.org
<http://www.eaa690.org/>.
http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=169
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