---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/08/08: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:02 AM - Re: 601XL wing jig (Ianrat) 2. 07:38 AM - Buy a 601UL ? (spitfire55) 3. 08:40 AM - Really bad news....S&F crash (swater6) 4. 09:12 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Tim Juhl) 5. 09:16 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (swater6) 6. 09:18 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (John Davis) 7. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Jay Maynard) 8. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (James E. Lanier) 9. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Kevin Bonds) 10. 10:25 AM - test (Jerry Hey) 11. 10:27 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (MHerder) 12. 12:11 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Sabrina) 13. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Ron Culver) 14. 12:49 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (pavel569) 15. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Iberplanes IGL) 16. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Paul Mulwitz) 17. 01:11 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (James E. Lanier) 18. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (William Dominguez) 19. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Bryan Martin) 20. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Bryan Martin) 21. 02:09 PM - 601 crashes (Jerry Hey) 22. 02:43 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (pavel569) 23. 03:10 PM - Re: 601 crashes (John Bolding) 24. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (ernie) 25. 05:16 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Gig Giacona) 26. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (James E. Lanier) 27. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Steve Shuck) 28. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Terry Phillips) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL wing jig From: "Ianrat" We have just got to the stage of using the wing jig. We have a new kit Arrived 7th march 2008) with the pre drilled skins. The jig that was supplied with the kit was different size to the main spar that was supplied. There fore the holes did not line up. I contacted Zenith and was told that i did not need to use the jig because the floor skin was pre drilled. All that was required is to use the ply templates to set the angle. Ianrat Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175448#175448 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Buy a 601UL ? From: "spitfire55" I'am looking at buying a 601UL and wondering if anybody has heard the out come of the UK,601UL accident investigation. -------- William Studdy CH 250 Built,Flying,Sold Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175468#175468 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "swater6" I don't want to be the one that starts this thread but I just saw this on another board and it will be posted here sooner or later. I'm sick to my stomach because this may be the factory demonstrator. Somehow they know it's a 601 but I can't find any news that lists the tail number. It's red and white.... Prayers for the lost pilot. Very sad. Here are a few links to news suggesting witness stated engine problems. http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?s=rss&storyid=77755 http://www.tbo.com/video/xml/MGBN8NVMREF.html -------- 601 XL kit N596SW reserved Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage www.scottwaters.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175480#175480 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "Tim Juhl" It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts. http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175485#175485 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "swater6" I found the N number on the FAA accident site. It is a CAW made in 2005 and registered in November 2007. Hopefully we can just wait for news instead of the same wild speculation we had before. Witness reports are conflicting....... -------- 601 XL kit N596SW reserved Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage www.scottwaters.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175486#175486 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:28 AM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Really bad news....S&F crash Hi Scott, Its not the factory demo plane. Its N357DT which was a czech built plane registered to Robert Dobson of Dahlonega, GA. Thoughts and Prayers to the family of the pilot. Here;s the FAA info: ******************************************************************************** ** Report created 4/8/2008 Record 1 ** ******************************************************************************** IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 357DT Make/Model: CH60 Description: CH-600/601 Zodiac, Super Zodiac Date: 04/07/2008 Time: 2100 Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Destroyed LOCATION City: POLK CITY State: FL Country: US DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES INTO A WOODED AREA, THE ONE PERSON ON BOARD WAS FATALLY INJURED, POLK CITY, FL INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1 # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: NOT REPORTED OTHER DATA Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER FAA FSDO: ORLANDO, FL (SO15) Entry date: 04/08/2008 John Davis 601XL - Jab 3300 swater6 wrote: > > I don't want to be the one that starts this thread but I just saw this on another board and it will be posted here sooner or later. > > I'm sick to my stomach because this may be the factory demonstrator. Somehow they know it's a 601 but I can't find any news that lists the tail number. It's red and white.... Prayers for the lost pilot. Very sad. > Here are a few links to news suggesting witness stated engine problems. > > http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?s=rss&storyid=77755 > > http://www.tbo.com/video/xml/MGBN8NVMREF.html > > -------- > 601 XL kit N596SW reserved > Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage > > www.scottwaters.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175480#175480 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:22 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote: > It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts. > http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER Uh oh...here we go again: "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping alongside the fuselage." My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:17 AM PST US From: "James E. Lanier" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off". I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings? Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know? Jay Maynard wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote: > >> It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts. >> http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER >> > > Uh oh...here we go again: > > "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of > the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping > alongside the fuselage." > > My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be. > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:17 AM PST US From: Kevin Bonds Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash Two guys, from my chapter, also went down yesterday in an RV10. No survivors. They were in route from Lebanon TN to Sun-n-fun. Both great guys. I feel for the families in both instances. My heart goes out to them. Having known both of them, has perhaps, caused me to reflect on the topic of speculation after one of these crashes. Kevin Bonds Jay Maynard wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote: > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:40 AM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Zenith-List: test test ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "MHerder" Would anyone happen to know whether or not the suggested/recommended/approved modification was made to the elevator control limits? I just ordered of all things.... The wing center section and a bunch of other items less than two hours ago. ( I found out that I was in fact screwed and could not go any further if you happened to read my post "Am I screwed-Wing Center Section" My thoughts and prayers also go out to our fellow aviator who was lost. -------- One Rivet at a Time! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175495#175495 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:58 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "Sabrina" Per http://www.nowakfamily.com/airplane.htm, N357DT had a 30 gallon capacity, a center stick and a 26 knot stall speed with flaps extended. Is it possible to get a 26 knot stall speed out of the standard wing/flap design without modification? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175519#175519 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:29 PM PST US From: "Ron Culver" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash Just watched the video on the link.Beautiful plane flying nicely.Sad ending for a plane that looked so well made. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "pavel569" According to FAA this N number was made by Czech Aircraft Works , so I guess its the European ultralight version with standard empty weight of 595lbs, max gross weight 992lbs. This type has (POH) the stall speeds as stated on the website 32 resp. 26knots. -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175531#175531 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:19 PM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash Oh no again, What happened to the "independent engineer " we were supposed to pay in order to get the XL checked....... My condolences to the family. Alberto Martin Iberplanes IGL http://www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Espa=F1a ----- Original Message ----- From: James E. Lanier To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:52 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off". I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings? Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know? Jay Maynard wrote: On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote: It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts. http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER Uh oh...here we go again: "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping alongside the fuselage." My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:01 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash Hi Sabrina, I would guess the low stall speed might be indicated rather than calibrated airspeed and also might be at a lighter than gross weight. Those sorts of details might not be important to a single builder, but would be factored in by a manufacturer of many (certified?) planes. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 12:08 PM 4/8/2008, you wrote: >Is it possible to get a 26 knot stall speed out of the standard >wing/flap design without modification? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:11 PM PST US From: "James E. Lanier" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Really bad news....S&F crash This story seems to indicate that Dobson was the pilot. Very sad. http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=af55d3aa-2e52-4854-8e04-67da234394c3 Jim John Davis wrote: > Hi Scott, > > Its not the factory demo plane. Its N357DT which was a czech built > plane registered to Robert Dobson of Dahlonega, GA. > > Thoughts and Prayers to the family of the pilot. > > Here;s the FAA info: > ******************************************************************************** > ** Report created 4/8/2008 Record 1 ** > ******************************************************************************** > > IDENTIFICATION > Regis#: 357DT Make/Model: CH60 Description: CH-600/601 Zodiac, Super Zodiac > Date: 04/07/2008 Time: 2100 > > Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N > Damage: Destroyed > > LOCATION > City: POLK CITY State: FL Country: US > > DESCRIPTION > AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES INTO A WOODED AREA, THE ONE > PERSON ON BOARD WAS FATALLY INJURED, POLK CITY, FL > > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1 > # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > > WEATHER: NOT REPORTED > > OTHER DATA > Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER > > > FAA FSDO: ORLANDO, FL (SO15) Entry date: 04/08/2008 > > > > John Davis > 601XL - Jab 3300 > > swater6 wrote: >> >> I don't want to be the one that starts this thread but I just saw this on another board and it will be posted here sooner or later. >> >> I'm sick to my stomach because this may be the factory demonstrator. Somehow they know it's a 601 but I can't find any news that lists the tail number. It's red and white.... Prayers for the lost pilot. Very sad. >> Here are a few links to news suggesting witness stated engine problems. >> >> http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?s=rss&storyid=77755 >> >> http://www.tbo.com/video/xml/MGBN8NVMREF.html >> >> -------- >> 601 XL kit N596SW reserved >> Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage >> >> www.scottwaters.com >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175480#175480 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:15 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash According to the owner's web site: Max Load 1320lb Empty Weight 735lb http://www.nowakfamily.com/airplane.htm This do not qualify as an European ultralight. As far as I know, the European and American version of the XL are structurally the same. According to the web site, this particular plane appears to have been on sale for $74,000. I wonder if the plane was sold and the accident happened to the new owner. My condolences to the family. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom According to FAA this N number was made by Czech Aircraft Works , so I guess its the European ultralight version with standard empty weight of 595lbs, max gross weight 992lbs. This type has (POH) the stall speeds as stated on the website 32 resp. 26knots. -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175531#175531 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:29 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash The website states that as 26 knots indicated air speed. That is entirely possible since most air speed indicators read quite a bit less than calibrated air speed near the stall. Sabrina wrote: > > Per http://www.nowakfamily.com/airplane.htm, N357DT had a 30 gallon capacity, a center stick and a 26 knot stall speed with flaps extended. > > Is it possible to get a 26 knot stall speed out of the standard wing/flap design without modification? > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:42 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash Eye witness reports are notoriously unreliable, especially in a case like this where the witness may not be familiar with aircraft and is probably not a trained observer. Lets just wait for the evidence to be examined before we start speculating on what may have caused the crash. Eye witnesses in Australia also reported wings falling off in the recent crash there. It was later reported that the wings were intact and showed no signs of in-flight breakup when the plane was finally recovered from the sea floor. James E. Lanier wrote: > I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off". > I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the > failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings? > Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't > know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know? > > > > Jay Maynard wrote: >> >> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote: >> >>> It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts. >>> http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER >>> >> >> Uh oh...here we go again: >> >> "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of >> the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping >> alongside the fuselage." >> >> My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be. >> > > * -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:08 PM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Zenith-List: 601 crashes I am not a 601 builder or pilot. My heart goes out to all the 601 guys. I would not take a demo ride in one until what is going on is understood and remedied. I am about to start scratch building a 701. I have built tube and rag in the past. The 601 crashes have caused me to take another look at the 701. Quite honestly, I love this airplane and it is probably strong enough to never have a structural failure BUT nobody could call it rugged. The thin skins, widely separated ribs, continual talk about oil canning. I can imagine ia 701 is not difficult to dent. Perhaps the trade off of structure vs weight has tilted too far toward light weight. Maybe that is true but just for me. Others would quite rightly feel different. I would not mind adding a few pounds of toughness to my airplane. Jerry ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "pavel569" > This do not qualify as an European ultralight. As far as I know, the European and American version of the XL are structurally the same. According to the CAW POH for Zodiac 601XL with Rotax 912 as it came on my CD (file "Zodiac XL POH Sample) together with ZAC manuals and other stuff has really 400lbs less gross weight and indicated stall airspeed 32-26knots, 37-33knots calibrated. -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175562#175562 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:00 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 crashes The 601 and 701 are VERY far apart in design . not even apples and oranges, more like apples and a Buick. The 701 has been around for almost 20 yrs (1986 I think) and until recently when a pilot dug in a wingtip on a low, LOW buzz job , there had never been a fatality in one. In the homebuilt arena that is almost unheard of. It may even be the only design that can claim that. Remarkable considering how many there are and the conditions they are flown in. Be cautious about adding "toughness" without proper engineering, making things worse is EASY to do when you change highly loaded, lightweight structures willy nilly. Speaking about engineering, you guys gonna keep wringing your hands and whining or DO something?? LO&SLO John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" > I am about to start scratch building a 701. I have built tube and rag in > the past. > > The 601 crashes have caused me to take another look at the 701. Quite > honestly, I love this airplane and it is probably strong enough to never > have a structural failure BUT nobody could call it rugged. The thin > skins, widely separated ribs, continual talk about oil canning. I can > imagine ia 701 is not difficult to dent. Perhaps the trade off of > structure vs weight has tilted too far toward light weight. Maybe that is > true but just for me. Others would quite rightly feel different. > > I would not mind adding a few pounds of toughness to my airplane. > > Jerry > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:50 PM PST US From: ernie Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash good point On 4/8/08, Bryan Martin wrote: > > Eye witness reports are notoriously unreliable, especially in a case > like this where the witness may not be familiar with aircraft and is > probably not a trained observer. Lets just wait for the evidence to be > examined before we start speculating on what may have caused the crash. > > Eye witnesses in Australia also reported wings falling off in the recent > crash there. It was later reported that the wings were intact and showed > no signs of in-flight breakup when the plane was finally recovered from > the sea floor. > > James E. Lanier wrote: > > I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off". > > I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the > > failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings? > > Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't > > know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know? > > > > > > > > Jay Maynard wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote: > >> > >>> It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts. > >>> http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER > >>> > >> > >> Uh oh...here we go again: > >> > >> "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of > >> the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was > flapping > >> alongside the fuselage." > >> > >> My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be. > >> > > > > * > > -- > Bryan Martin > Zenith 601XL N61BM > Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "Gig Giacona" Because of the proximity to SnF there's little doubt that better information will come from this accident than the previous ones. And if not better at least more. As many have said let's not guess or listen to untrained eye-witnesses. The facts will come. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175595#175595 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:44 PM PST US From: "James E. Lanier" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash Perhaps we will get better information. The publicly available NTSC reports I have read are not very informative. The link below is very informative (British Accident Report). http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Zenair%20CH601UL,%20G-YOXI%2005-07.pdf http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/may_2007/zenair_ch601ul__g_yoxi.cfm BTW this is the news video of the sun'n fun accident. http://www.baynews9.com/VideoPlayer/?Plane_Crashes_In_Polk_City_47 Jim Gig Giacona wrote: > > Because of the proximity to SnF there's little doubt that better information will come from this accident than the previous ones. And if not better at least more. > > As many have said let's not guess or listen to untrained eye-witnesses. The facts will come. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175595#175595 > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:16 PM PST US From: Steve Shuck Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash Someone stalled it... I'm still In.. Iberplanes IGL wrote: Oh no again, What happened to the "independent engineer " we were supposed to pay in order to get the XL checked....... My condolences to the family. Alberto Martin Iberplanes IGL http://www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Espaa ----- Original Message ----- From: James E. Lanier To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:52 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off". I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings? Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know? Jay Maynard wrote: It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts. http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER Uh oh...here we go again: "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping alongside the fuselage." My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:14 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash I'm still in. IIRC, Andy Shontz initiated the thread asking listers for a yea or nay on the analysis. So, I'd hope that Andy would take the lead to make the analysis happen. I'm not an aeronautical engineer, and I've never worked in the aerospace industries. Consequently, I don't know any aeronautical engineers. However, a former colleague from Los Alamos is the now Dean of Engineering at Embry-Riddle, Prescott. If Andy is agreeable, I could send him an email to see if he could recommend someone qualified and available to do the analysis. Let me know if you're interested, Andy. He would need to know how much cash was on the table. It would be worth 3 or 4 hundred bucks to me. Terry At 09:47 PM 4/8/2008 +0200, you wrote: >Oh no again, > > >What happened to the "independent engineer " we were supposed to pay in >order to get the XL checked....... > >My condolences to the family. > > >Alberto Martin >Iberplanes IGL >http://www.iberplanes.es >Igualada - Barcelona - Espa=F1a Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.