Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:08 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (David Downey)
2. 04:12 AM - Re: 601 crashes (David Downey)
3. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (James E. Lanier)
4. 05:04 AM - 701/801 List ()
5. 05:29 AM - Re: 701/801 List (dj45)
6. 05:46 AM - Re: 701/801 List (Mark Colbeck)
7. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S (Larry Hursh)
8. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (John Bolding)
9. 06:14 AM - Foul language (Dave Austin)
10. 06:20 AM - Re: Really bad news....S (MHerder)
11. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (David Downey)
12. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (Elwood140@aol.com)
13. 06:46 AM - blank message (Zed Smith)
14. 06:51 AM - Re: Really bad news....S (PatrickW)
15. 07:05 AM - Re: Really bad news....S (Paul Tipton)
16. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S (Bob Sturgis)
17. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Juan Vega)
18. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S (Juan Vega)
19. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (MacDonald Doug)
20. 07:48 AM - Re: Foul language (William Dominguez)
21. 07:48 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (gnuse)
22. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S (Jay Maynard)
23. 07:55 AM - Re: 701/801 List (ricklach)
24. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (LRM)
25. 08:50 AM - Need Clarification !!! (zsmith3rd@earthlink.net)
26. 08:50 AM - Need Clarification !!! (Zed Smith)
27. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (John Bolding)
28. 08:55 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (Matt Dralle)
29. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (Elwood140@aol.com)
30. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (Randall J. Hebert)
31. 09:14 AM - 701 throttle rods (Tony Bonsell)
32. 09:15 AM - To Matt D (steve)
33. 09:22 AM - FYI 912ULS on Ebay from 701 (Jon Croke)
34. 09:31 AM - Re: To Matt D (MHerder)
35. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc)
36. 09:40 AM - Re: Need Clarification !!! (Gig Giacona)
37. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: To Matt D (steve)
38. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: Need Clarification !!! (Paul Mulwitz)
39. 10:12 AM - New lists (humor?) (Craig Payne)
40. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (Randy L. Thwing)
41. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (Larry Hursh)
42. 10:21 AM - Re: 701 throttle rods (Paul Mulwitz)
43. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (JohnDRead@aol.com)
44. 10:22 AM - Re: To Matt D (JohnDRead@aol.com)
45. 10:31 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (MHerder)
46. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: To Matt D (Carlos Sa)
47. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: To Matt D (Randy L. Thwing)
48. 10:38 AM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (kmccune)
49. 10:42 AM - Re: New lists (humor?) (Randy L. Thwing)
50. 10:45 AM - Re: 701 throttle rods (steve)
51. 10:46 AM - Re: 601 crashes (kmccune)
52. 10:46 AM - Re: To Matt D (Frank Stutzman)
53. 10:47 AM - New list (Mark Sherman)
54. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (steve)
55. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: To Matt D (steve)
56. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? (KEVINBONDS@comcast.net)
57. 10:58 AM - Re: 701/801 List (kmccune)
58. 11:05 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (MHerder)
59. 11:05 AM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (kmccune)
60. 11:06 AM - Re: To Matt D (steve)
61. 11:15 AM - Re: Wang Chung lives................... (Gary Gower)
62. 11:20 AM - Re: To Matt D (KEVINBONDS@comcast.net)
63. 11:23 AM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (Carlos Sa)
64. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? (KEVINBONDS@comcast.net)
65. 11:46 AM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (Carlos Sa)
66. 11:49 AM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (Tim Juhl)
67. 12:00 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (gnuse)
68. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? (Paul Mulwitz)
69. 12:18 PM - Re: To Matt D (Frank Stutzman)
70. 12:24 PM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (Dan)
71. 12:49 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Tim Juhl)
72. 01:13 PM - Re: 701 throttle rods (ronlee)
73. 01:19 PM - reflective tape for N numbers and tirm (john butterfield)
74. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: 701 throttle rods (Carlos Sa)
75. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? (Kevin Bonds)
76. 02:12 PM - Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm (John Short)
77. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? ()
78. 02:41 PM - Re: 701 throttle rods (ronlee)
79. 02:41 PM - Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm (steve)
80. 02:49 PM - Corvair 701 On Kitplanes Blog (Gig Giacona)
81. 02:52 PM - Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm (Gig Giacona)
82. 02:52 PM - Re: 701/801 List (dj45)
83. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? (steve)
84. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Need Clarification !!! (Bob Sturgis)
85. 03:44 PM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (kmccune)
86. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm (steve)
87. 03:53 PM - Re: To Matt D (Gary Gower)
88. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Ronald Steele)
89. 05:09 PM - 701 throttle setup (Tracy)
90. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? (Jaybannist@cs.com)
91. 05:26 PM - Wing tips (Ronald Steele)
92. 05:38 PM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (kmccune)
93. 05:49 PM - Re: Corvair 701 On Kitplanes Blog (kmccune)
94. 06:01 PM - follow up question about 601 rear spar hole (w8n2bup)
95. 06:05 PM - Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm (Gig Giacona)
96. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: Hoerner wing tips (Jaybannist@cs.com)
97. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? (John Bolding)
98. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (David Downey)
99. 06:44 PM - Re: 701 throttle setup (Jeff)
100. 07:07 PM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (kmccune)
101. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (MacDonald Doug)
102. 07:44 PM - Re: 701 throttle setup (txpilot)
103. 07:48 PM - Re: 701 throttle setup (NYTerminat@aol.com)
104. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Need Clarification !!! (Joemotis@aol.com)
105. 08:37 PM - Re: New lists (humor?) (MHerder)
106. 10:31 PM - Re: Re: New lists (humor?) (Kevin Bonds)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
I must not be looking in the right place on the zenith site? Where are any images
of a negative G test? The only images I saw were the airframe inverted and
sand bags on the lower surfaces of the wing = positive G?
Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net> wrote:... That said, I do have one request of Chris Heintz
and Zenith aircraft which I can sum up as "Details." They published pictures
of the most recent structural tests but provided no specific information
on the results. Was the wing tested to -3 or to - 6 like it says on my plans.
They talk about an extensive flight test program... I would like to know the
details of such tests. For example - was the test aircraft exposed to abrupt
full control movements at maneuvering speed without experiencing damage? The
best way to quell wild speculation is to replace it with facts, not just assurances.
Pardon me for being so windy...
Tim Juhl
Do not archive
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
__________________________________________________
Message 2
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attached does not mean rigged in flight attitude and incidence. Even a minor bend
in a wing panel at the root can make an airplane uncontrollable - especially
if it is one panel and unsymmetrical.
Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> wrote:...For now, seems that the Australian plane
had the wings attached once they found it in the ocean. so no structural
failure in this wings, in this case..
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
__________________________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html
David Downey wrote:
> I must not be looking in the right place on the zenith site? Where are
> any images of a negative G test? The only images I saw were the
> airframe inverted and sand bags on the lower surfaces of the wing =
> positive G?
>
> */Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>/* wrote:
>
> ... That said, I do have one request of Chris Heintz and Zenith
> aircraft which I can sum up as "Details." They published pictures
> of the most recent structural tests but provided no specific
> information on the results. Was the wing tested to -3 or to - 6
> like it says on my plans. They talk about an extensive flight test
> program... I would like to know the details of such tests. For
> example - was the test aircraft exposed to abrupt full control
> movements at maneuvering speed without experiencing damage? The
> best way to quell wild speculation is to replace it with facts, not
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
Message 4
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Matt Dralle the creator.......if you can here me......PLEASE create a 701/801 list....one
where we can exchange building tips and experience. We promise not
to bicker (except about vg's.)
Rich H
N701ZH--skinning the wings (with .016)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Yes, please do
--------
Do not archive
Dan Stanton
N9801S
99.9% Done & Flying
701-40% done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
I second that!
Although there has been lots of great help here, for the last few months there
really has not been much on building. Important issues none the less, but not
really about the 701 or 801.
My 2.5 cents.
--------
CH701
70% Complete
www.mykitlog.com/mcolbeck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176130#176130
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S |
Andy,
What is up with this type of comment? Why is it you and Gig always seem to always
want to go head to head on just about every subject? Is there ANYTHING
you guys MIGHT have in common like say, the LOVE OF FLYING??? Why don't you both
agree to meet someplace and just have a knock down, drag out fight and beat
the crap out of each other.....just get it over with, OK? Maybe then the rest
of us can have some peace again.
__________________________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
OH PLEASE YES !!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "dj45" <dj45@modempool.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
> Yes, please do
>
> --------
> Do not archive
>
> Dan Stanton
> N9801S
> 99.9% Done & Flying
> 701-40% done
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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I don't understand why Matt's filters didn't erase "Ashontz's msg, but I
have placed him on my Norton block list.
With all the good stuff that is shared on this list we don't need that.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S |
Matt/Iberplanes,
Your premise for such an argument is that Chris/Other Heintz's have not done such
things. It is a bold statement to say that the Heintz's have not personally
inspected the wreckage. I would agree that it would be irresponsible not to
do so, however I believe that this has occurred. Can anyone truthfully say with
certainty that Chris or other Heintz's have not put their hands on the wreckage?
Maybe I have taken for granted that this has happened. As I understand
the process a representative of the manufacturer/designer almost HAS to be there
during certain stages of the investigation to provide information, calculations
etc. Maybe I have also taken this for granted, I would welcome a comment
from anyone more familiar with the investigation.
I know that we have at least one member who "plays an investigator on line" and
another who at least stayed at a holiday inn.
[quote="Iberplanes"]Dear Matt.
I was about to write the same you did. Of course Zenith is not Boeing, but when
a plane crashes in the USA they might have the chance to go there and check on
site. 100 % with your comment,
Take care,
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es (http://www.iberplanes.es)
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain.
Some of you people seem to be happily willing to go down in a 601XL just to spite
everyone else.
Chris Heintz et al need to go an personally inspect these airframes. Burt Rutan
flew out and inspected a Varieze that crashed on account of a structural failure.
As it turns out, the builder didn't follow the plans. Read for yourself
here:
http://www.ez.org/cp33-5.htm (http://www.ez.org/cp33-5.htm)
Note the sentence: "Prior to this accident the VariEze type had amassed approximately
150,000 hours flying without in-flight airframe failure, even though many
of the aircraft have relatively poor workmanship."
Has the 601XL fleet approached 150,000 hours?
If I designed a plane that someone said broke-up in flight I would personally
go inspect it. If I decided against going the first time, thinking it was a fluke,
I would certainly go look at the second, or third, if such occured. I admire
Heintz's engineering ability but I find him irresponsible here. Computers
and sandbags don't always tell us everything we need to know.
The Heintzs' shouldn't be leaving this up to the FAA to "investigate," they should
investigate these aircraft themselves. Why some of you stick your head in
the sand while crapping on others, I do not know.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176033#176033 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176033#176033)
> [b]
:) :) :)
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176139#176139
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Thank you!!! I must be blind!
"James E. Lanier" <jim.lanier@charter.net> wrote: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html
David Downey wrote: I must not be looking in the right place on the zenith site?
Where are any images of a negative G test? The only images I saw were the airframe
inverted and sand bags on the lower surfaces of the wing = positive G?
Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net> wrote: ... That said, I do have one request of Chris
Heintz and Zenith aircraft which I can sum up as "Details." They published
pictures of the most recent structural tests but provided no specific information
on the results. Was the wing tested to -3 or to - 6 like it says on my plans.
They talk about an extensive flight test program... I would like to know
the details of such tests. For example - was the test aircraft exposed to abrupt
full control movements at maneuvering speed without experiencing damage? The
best way to quell wild speculation is to replace it with facts, not
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
__________________________________________________
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
I'll vote for that! Based on the amount of 'watermelon conversation'
appearing on this list for the last few months, I think a separate 701/801 list
is
in order.
Larry Wood
(N701LW still aborning )
In a message dated 4/11/2008 8:12:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
jnbolding1@teleshare.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
OH PLEASE YES !!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "dj45" <dj45@modempool.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" <dj45@modempool.com>
>
> Yes, please do
>
> --------
> Do not archive
>
> Dan Stanton
> N9801S
> 99.9% Done & Flying
> 701-40% done
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 13
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do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S |
> I bid the list adieu.
>
> I finished my 701 and it is flying successfully.
> --------
> Tommy Walker
>
We all suffer when good people with proven track records leave the list.
Given the number of posts we can see on the Zenith board (versus the number of
posts on any of the others) doesn't it makes sense to split the 601 off onto it's
own?
For example - why does the RV-12 rate a separate list, but the 601 does not...?
Not meaning to pick on another companies airplane, but really guys, how many RV-12's
are even under construction, let alone are actually in the air? One? Maybe
Two?
Patrick
XL/Corvair - 67%
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176143#176143
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S |
Been reading this non-productive tripe for too long. This list has gone
from productive to speculation and pissing matches. I have better
things to do. I have a flying 701 that I absolutely love to fly. Too
bad a 701 list does not exist.
See ya....
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S |
This list has been a disappointment to say the least. I joined to get help in building
my 601 and all we get is speculation about crashed planes and egos. I
want help with building. Real help, from people who have been there, solved the
problems, found the best way to accomplish the job and move on. Egos do not
belong on this type of forum.
If the talk goes back to building I will stay, otherwise I am gone with a lot of
others.
Bob Sturgis
601 XL QB 3300A 75%
N642Z reserved
----- Original Message ----
From: ernie <ernieth@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:37:55 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S
maybe we can get a new 601 list for building questions only too
On 4/10/08, Tommy Walker <twalker@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> I probably shouldn't do this, but I've had all I can stand.
>
> If there was a way to filter you out of the digest, believe me, I would do
> it. Since I can't, I will just stop the Matronics Digest each day.
>
> In my opinion sir, you are a hazard to aviation, and homebuilders.
>
> I emailed Mr. Draille a few weeks ago and asked him if he could start a
> 701/801 list because of the continual posts that you make. Unfortunately,
> he didn't see the need.
>
> So, I bid the list adieu.
>
> To the many, many list members, I apologize for this tirade. I appreciate
> the help you've given me and I hope that I've helped a few builders along
> the way.
>
> I finished my 701 and it is flying successfully. Might I add, it was built
> to the designers specifications. I don't fancy myself an aeronautical
> enginer. I could crash tomorrow, but it won't be because I thought I knew
> more than the designer.
>
> I like the 701 design so well, that I'm building another.
>
> Regards to the list.
>
> Tommy Walker
> N8701
>
>
> ashontz wrote:
> > Don't apologize, there's a bunch of people here who are thinking the same
> thing as you. I'm also interested in possibly beefing up the wing.
> >
> > No need to apologize for being reminded by 'by the book' types, that also
> don't have any experience, and are even less inquisitive, that only
> aeronautical engineers have brains and those brains are always 100% accurate
> at all times, and automatically trump anyone else who may happen to attempt
> to thing for quote]
>
>
> --------
> Tommy Walker
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176046#176046
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
indications at the crash site are that the wings are still in place.
juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "James E. Lanier" <jim.lanier@charter.net>
>Sent: Apr 8, 2008 12:52 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash
>
>I am a bit concerned with the repeated reports of wings "popping off".
>I would like to know the details of the previous failures. Does the
>failure occur at the connection point of the removable wings?
>Is the failure the bolts themselves, or are the spars failing ? I don't
>know it the NTSB reports specify this. Does anyone know?
>
>
>Jay Maynard wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:08:53AM -0700, Tim Juhl wrote:
>>
>>> It gets worse.... here are some eyewitness accounts.
>>> http://www.theledger.com/article/20080408/NEWS/804080399/1137/REPORTER
>>>
>>
>> Uh oh...here we go again:
>>
>> "Brownlow said he heard a "pretty loud pop" and looked up. He said one of
>> the wings of the small plane, he thinks it was the right one, was flapping
>> alongside the fuselage."
>>
>> My condolences to the pilot's family, whoever they may be.
>>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S |
one of the heintzs was at the crash site all afternoon with the FAA. Everyone
needs to cool their Jets for a while. keep building, keep having fun. Since
it is SLAS there will be a full NTSB report. the wings were still on the plane.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: MHerder <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
>Sent: Apr 11, 2008 9:17 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S
>
>
>Matt/Iberplanes,
>
>Your premise for such an argument is that Chris/Other Heintz's have not done such
things. It is a bold statement to say that the Heintz's have not personally
inspected the wreckage. I would agree that it would be irresponsible not to
do so, however I believe that this has occurred. Can anyone truthfully say with
certainty that Chris or other Heintz's have not put their hands on the wreckage?
Maybe I have taken for granted that this has happened. As I understand
the process a representative of the manufacturer/designer almost HAS to be there
during certain stages of the investigation to provide information, calculations
etc. Maybe I have also taken this for granted, I would welcome a comment
from anyone more familiar with the investigation.
>
>I know that we have at least one member who "plays an investigator on line" and
another who at least stayed at a holiday inn.
>
>
>[quote="Iberplanes"]Dear Matt.
>
>I was about to write the same you did. Of course Zenith is not Boeing, but when
a plane crashes in the USA they might have the chance to go there and check
on site. 100 % with your comment,
>
>Take care,
>
>Alberto Martin
>www.iberplanes.es (http://www.iberplanes.es)
>Igualada - Barcelona - Spain.
>
>
>
> Some of you people seem to be happily willing to go down in a 601XL just to spite
everyone else.
>
> Chris Heintz et al need to go an personally inspect these airframes. Burt Rutan
flew out and inspected a Varieze that crashed on account of a structural failure.
As it turns out, the builder didn't follow the plans. Read for yourself
here:
>
> http://www.ez.org/cp33-5.htm (http://www.ez.org/cp33-5.htm)
>
> Note the sentence: "Prior to this accident the VariEze type had amassed approximately
150,000 hours flying without in-flight airframe failure, even though
many of the aircraft have relatively poor workmanship."
>
> Has the 601XL fleet approached 150,000 hours?
>
> If I designed a plane that someone said broke-up in flight I would personally
go inspect it. If I decided against going the first time, thinking it was a
fluke, I would certainly go look at the second, or third, if such occured. I
admire Heintz's engineering ability but I find him irresponsible here. Computers
and sandbags don't always tell us everything we need to know.
>
> The Heintzs' shouldn't be leaving this up to the FAA to "investigate," they should
investigate these aircraft themselves. Why some of you stick your head
in the sand while crapping on others, I do not know.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176033#176033 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176033#176033)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> [b]
> :) :) :)
>
>--------
>One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176139#176139
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
I also am a little overwhelmed at times by the 601
talk on this list. A combination of it being the most
popular Zenith model and it's builders being the most
vocal. I don't fault anyone for this but that is the
way it is.
As for a STOL only list, that sort of already exists.
There is the 701/801 Yahoo group. While it would be
nice to have a Matronics list specifically for the
STOL series, I'm not sure it would be practical.
Anyone interested can get there at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
--- Mark Colbeck <mark@masterpieceliving.ca> wrote:
> <mark@masterpieceliving.ca>
>
> I second that!
>
> Although there has been lots of great help here, for
> the last few months there really has not been much
> on building. Important issues none the less, but not
> really about the 701 or 801.
> My 2.5 cents.
>
> --------
> CH701
> 70% Complete
>
> www.mykitlog.com/mcolbeck
__________________________________________________
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Foul language |
Foul language, what about disrespect? you can be disrespectful without using foul
language. Let's keep it under context, if we are going to criticize Andy for
his foul language, we also have to criticize those who previously where disrespectful
to him. I'm not the only one who have noticed this, read Joshua's last
post.
daveaustin2(at)primus.ca wrote:
> I don't understand why Matt's filters didn't erase "Ashontz's msg, but I
> have placed him on my Norton block list.
> With all the good stuff that is shared on this list we don't need that.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
--------
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176157#176157
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Robert bought this plane last year, he flew almost everyday the weather permitted.
He was meticulous in his work, kind, friendly, and serious about his flying
skills. As one poster stated, he had bought the plane two months ago............please
put your brain in gear before your mouth and keyboard lead you astray.
Some of these posts to this thread are totally without basis, full of speculation,
and insensitive.
I think some of the posters should get the facts rather that believing "stuff"
the press puts out and you might want to check your aircraft to see how well it
was built.
Yes, he was a friend and an enthusiastic fellow pilot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176156#176156
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S |
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 07:08:19AM -0700, Bob Sturgis wrote:
> This list has been a disappointment to say the least. I joined to get help
> in building my 601 and all we get is speculation about crashed planes and
> egos. I want help with building. Real help, from people who have been
> there, solved the problems, found the best way to accomplish the job and
> move on. Egos do not belong on this type of forum.
> If the talk goes back to building I will stay, otherwise I am gone with a
> lot of others.
I'm sorry to hear that, and especially if I've helped contribute to the
issue.
I joined the list because, in a couple of months, I'll have my very own
Zodiac, and want to know as much as I possibly can about it. Unlike just
about everyone else here, I don't have anything approaching the kind of time
to be able to build my own, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford to
trade money for time. I'm still interested to hear what people who are
building have to say, because that can only increase my store of knowledge
about the aircraft.
Perhaps the answer isn't to split into 601 and 701/801 lists, but rather
into building and flying lists. That way, the builders can concentrate on
that aspect of it, and those who are flying theirs can concentrate on that.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
I think a 701/801 list is a great idea.
How about it----Matt
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176158#176158
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
This was put up for a vote a few years ago and voted down. I voted
against it, I have since changed my mind. About the only thing a 601
and 701/801 have in common is the name Zenith. They are totally two
different type airplanes built for absolute different purposes. It
makes no logic to lump them together in the same list. A separate
701/801 list would be best. In fact I would not be opposed to inviting
(like) STOL aircraft builders to join in, such as the Savannah. Why
not? After all this is supposed to be for sharing and learning things
of common interest. In my opinion the 601 does fit this communally and I
have very little interest in it.
Take care, LRM www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Elwood140@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
I'll vote for that! Based on the amount of 'watermelon conversation'
appearing on this list for the last few months, I think a separate
701/801 list is in order.
Larry Wood
(N701LW still aborning )
In a message dated 4/11/2008 8:12:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
jnbolding1@teleshare.net writes:
<jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
OH PLEASE YES !!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "dj45" <dj45@modempool.com>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
> Yes, please do
>
> --------
> Do not archive
>
> Dan Stanton
> N9801S
> 99.9% Done & Flying
> 701-40% done
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp;
- List Contribution Web Site ;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
4/10/2008 12:23 PM
Message 25
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| Subject: | Need Clarification !!! |
do not archive.....which has been missing of late.....but I digress....
Listers,
Beautiful spring day in North Texas, 56 degrees F, bright sun, clear sky, birds
singing, various wildlife doing their thing, etc.
Appropriate greetings for whatever time zone you inhabit!
My question today involves the "wheelwell wiring on the MD-80" as suffered by American
and others:
>From the very short video clips on network news, showing a mechanic with a ruler
checking spacing of Tyraps & clamps......weren't these aircraft originally
delivered by the manufacturer as shown?
Surely mechanics didn't remove clamps and ties on all these aircraft and re-install
new clamps and ties with different, incorrect, spacing just to have something
to do.
As little as I know about the subject , and that's damn little, it looks like there
was a failing in the inspection process back when the N-number was affixed
in the beginning.
Can some knowledgeable person address this? What little video I've seen places
the wire bundles up on bulkheads where it never moves anyway.
Okay, so feel free to jump in and correct my misguided view.
Regards to all,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/etc
Message 26
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| Subject: | Need Clarification !!! |
do not archive.....which has been missing of late.....but I digress....
Listers,
Beautiful spring day in North Texas, 56 degrees F, bright sun, clear sky, birds
singing, various wildlife doing their thing, etc.
Appropriate greetings for whatever time zone you inhabit!
My question today involves the "wheelwell wiring on the MD-80" as suffered by American
and others:
>From the very short video clips on network news, showing a mechanic with a ruler
checking spacing of Tyraps & clamps......weren't these aircraft originally
delivered by the manufacturer as shown?
Surely mechanics didn't remove clamps and ties on all these aircraft and re-install
new clamps and ties with different, incorrect, spacing just to have something
to do.
As little as I know about the subject , and that's damn little, it looks like there
was a failing in the inspection process back when the N-number was affixed
in the beginning.
Can some knowledgeable person address this? What little video I've seen places
the wire bundles up on bulkheads where it never moves anyway.
Okay, so feel free to jump in and correct my misguided view.
Regards to all,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/etc
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
True enough, been a member there for yrs, no name calling ,cursing, lots
of info passed back and forth without a lot of drama. If all the 701 /801
builders-fliers moved over there in mass we can build airplanes instead of
.................... you fill in the blanks.
While I DO get a nugget from this list every so often (and hope I contribute
one every now and then) they are starting to get lost in the clutter of the
MANY folks that shoot only to hear the gun go off.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "MacDonald Doug" <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
> As for a STOL only list, that sort of already exists.
> There is the 701/801 Yahoo group. While it would be
> nice to have a Matronics list specifically for the
> STOL series, I'm not sure it would be practical.
>
> Anyone interested can get there at:
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Zenith Listers,
Okay, "uncle"... :-) I'll create a new 601 specific and a new 701/801 specific
Zenith list. Give me a few days to get it done. Its a fair amount of work
and takes about a day to get everything updated and working. I'll post a follow
up when they're ready to go.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
At 08:09 AM 4/11/2008 Friday, you wrote:
>This was put up for a vote a few years ago and voted down. I voted against it,
I have since changed my mind. About the only thing a 601 and 701/801 have in
common is the name Zenith. They are totally two different type airplanes built
for absolute different purposes. It makes no logic to lump them together
in the same list. A separate 701/801 list would be best. In fact I would not
be opposed to inviting (like) STOL aircraft builders to join in, such as the
Savannah. Why not? After all this is supposed to be for sharing and learning
things of common interest. In my opinion the 601 does fit this communally and
I have very little interest in it.
>
>Take care, LRM <http://www.skyhawg.com>www.skyhawg.com
>From: <mailto:Elwood140@aol.com>Elwood140@aol.com
>To: <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:38 AM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
>I'll vote for that! Based on the amount of 'watermelon conversation' appearing
on this list for the last few months, I think a separate 701/801 list is in
order.
>
>Larry Wood
>
>(N701LW still aborning )
>
>In a message dated 4/11/2008 8:12:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, <mailto:jnbolding1@teleshare.net>jnbolding1@teleshare.net writes:
>
>OH PLEASE YES !!!
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "dj45" <dj45@modempool.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 AM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
>
>>
>> Yes, please do
>>
>> Dan Stanton
>> N9801S
>> 99.9% Done & Flying
>> 701-40% done
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Thanks Matt!
Larry Wood
do not archive
In a message dated 4/11/2008 10:57:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
dralle@matronics.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Zenith Listers,
Okay, "uncle"... :-) I'll create a new 601 specific and a new 701/801
specific Zenith list. Give me a few days to get it done. Its a fair amount of
work and takes about a day to get everything updated and working. I'll post
a follow up when they're ready to go.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
At 08:09 AM 4/11/2008 Friday, you wrote:
>This was put up for a vote a few years ago and voted down. I voted against
it, I have since changed my mind. About the only thing a 601 and 701/801
have in common is the name Zenith. They are totally two different type
airplanes built for absolute different purposes. It makes no logic to lump them
together in the same list. A separate 701/801 list would be best. In fact I
would not be opposed to inviting (like) STOL aircraft builders to join in, such
as the Savannah. Why not? After all this is supposed to be for sharing
and learning things of common interest. In my opinion the 601 does fit this
communally and I have very little interest in it.
>
>Take care, LRM <http://www.skyhawg.com>www.skyhawg.com
>From: <mailto:Elwood140@aol.com>Elwood140@aol.com
>To: <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:38 AM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
>I'll vote for that! Based on the amount of 'watermelon conversation'
appearing on this list for the last few months, I think a separate 701/801 list
is
in order.
>
>Larry Wood
>
>(N701LW still aborning )
>
>In a message dated 4/11/2008 8:12:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
<mailto:jnbolding1@teleshare.net>jnbolding1@teleshare.net writes:
>
>OH PLEASE YES !!!
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "dj45" <dj45@modempool.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 AM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
>
>>
>> Yes, please do
>>
>> Dan Stanton
>> N9801S
>> 99.9% Done & Flying
>> 701-40% done
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
THANK YOU MATT !!!!!
Randall J Hebert
CH701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
Zenith Listers,
Okay, "uncle"... :-) I'll create a new 601 specific and a new 701/801
specific Zenith list. Give me a few days to get it done. Its a fair
amount of work and takes about a day to get everything updated and
working. I'll post a follow up when they're ready to go.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
At 08:09 AM 4/11/2008 Friday, you wrote:
>This was put up for a vote a few years ago and voted down. I voted
against it, I have since changed my mind. About the only thing a 601
and 701/801 have in common is the name Zenith. They are totally two
different type airplanes built for absolute different purposes. It
makes no logic to lump them together in the same list. A separate
701/801 list would be best. In fact I would not be opposed to inviting
(like) STOL aircraft builders to join in, such as the Savannah. Why
not? After all this is supposed to be for sharing and learning things
of common interest. In my opinion the 601 does fit this communally and I
have very little interest in it.
>
>Take care, LRM <http://www.skyhawg.com>www.skyhawg.com
>From: <mailto:Elwood140@aol.com>Elwood140@aol.com
>To: <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:38 AM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
>I'll vote for that! Based on the amount of 'watermelon conversation'
appearing on this list for the last few months, I think a separate
701/801 list is in order.
>
>Larry Wood
>
>(N701LW still aborning )
>
>In a message dated 4/11/2008 8:12:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
<mailto:jnbolding1@teleshare.net>jnbolding1@teleshare.net writes:
>--> <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>
>OH PLEASE YES !!!
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "dj45" <dj45@modempool.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 AM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
>
>>
>> Yes, please do
>>
>> Dan Stanton
>> N9801S
>> 99.9% Done & Flying
>> 701-40% done
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 31
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| Subject: | 701 throttle rods |
Hi guys, me again.
I'm getting close to finishing, but the instructions sort of leave out
the instrument panel. I've got Dave Thompson's cool Visio template's,
but I still need to know where the throttle rods come through. If the
throttle rods are perpendicular to the panel and firewall, they end up
a lot closer to the center of the panel than I've seen in some builder
photos. If you take the rods outboard of perpendicular, don't their
pivots bind as they sweep through their range? Or are you guys bending
the rods to make them perpendicular at the firewall? And where should
the choke come through the panel?
Thanks!
Message 32
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If you do start a new list for each model Zenith you might want to
include only people who have a serial number assigned to them.
Example: Steve Weston
# 6-6960
This will keep the experts who dont have a clue AWAY from real
builders.....
SW
Message 33
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| Subject: | FYI 912ULS on Ebay from 701 |
Found this listing on Ebay... a 912 ULS with a nice panel from its 701
included!
Item number: 220222054723
You are bidding on a 100 HP ROTAX 912 ULS Aircraft Engine and instrument
panel. Engine was removed from a CH 701 aircraft that was damaged in a
landing accident. No one was hurt, main damage was to the landing gear
and wings. The engine and mount were removed and installed on a test
stand. Engine is not believed to be damaged but needs to be inspected .
The hour meter reads 29 hours....
do not archive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message 34
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The only flaw with your logic is that you don't have to be smart to get a serial
#, you just have to have $395. :D , perhaps Zenith could regulate this with
some form of standardized testing.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176177#176177
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Thank you Matt... it's about time
Ron Leclerc
:-{
:-{
:-{
:-{ Zenith Listers,
:-{
:-{ Okay, "uncle"... :-) I'll create a new 601 specific and a new
:-{ 701/801 specific Zenith list. Give me a few days to get it done.
:-{ Its a fair amount of work and takes about a day to get
:-{ everything updated and working. I'll post a follow up when
:-{ they're ready to go.
:-{
:-{ Matt Dralle
:-{ Matronics Email List Admin
:-{
:-{
:-{ At 08:09 AM 4/11/2008 Friday, you wrote:
:-{:-{ This was put up for a vote a few years ago and voted down. I
:-{:-{ voted against it, I have since changed my mind. About the
:-{:-{ only thing a 601 and 701/801 have in common is the name
:-{:-{ Zenith. They are totally two different type airplanes built
:-{:-{ for absolute different purposes. It makes no logic to lump
:-{:-{ them together in the same list. A separate 701/801 list
:-{:-{ would be best. In fact I would not be opposed to inviting
:-{:-{ (like) STOL aircraft builders to join in, such as the
:-{:-{ Savannah. Why not? After all this is supposed to be for
:-{:-{ sharing and learning things of common interest. In my opinion
:-{:-{ the 601 does fit this communally and I have very little
:-{:-{ interest in it.
:-{:-{
:-{:-{ Take care, LRM www.skyhawg.com
:-{:-{
:-{:-{ From: Elwood140@aol.com To:
:-{:-{ zenith-list@matronics.com
:-{:-{ Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:38 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-
:-{:-{ List: Re: 701/801 List
:-{:-{
:-{:-{ I'll vote for that! Based on the amount of 'watermelon
:-{:-{ conversation' appearing on this list for the last few months,
:-{:-{ I think a separate 701/801 list is in order.
:-{:-{
:-{:-{ Larry Wood
:-{:-{
:-{:-{ (N701LW still aborning )
:-{:-{
:-{:-{ In a message dated 4/11/2008 8:12:52 A.M. Central Daylight
:-{:-{ Time,
:-{:-{ jnbolding1@teleshare.net
:-{:-{ writes:
:-{:-{
:-{:-{
:-{:-{ OH PLEASE YES !!!
:-{:-{
:-{:-{
:-{:-{ ----- Original Message -----
:-{:-{ From: "dj45"
:-{:-{ To:
:-{:-{ Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 AM
:-{:-{ Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
:-{:-{
:-{:-{
:-{:-{:-{
:-{:-{:-{
:-{:-{:-{ Yes, please do
:-{:-{:-{
:-{:-{:-{ Dan Stanton
:-{:-{:-{ N9801S
:-{:-{:-{ 99.9% Done & Flying
:-{:-{:-{ 701-40% done
:-{:-{:-{
:-{:-{:-{ http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
:-{
:-{
:-{ Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
:-{ 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
:-{ http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
:-{
:-{
:-{ = - The Zenith-List Email Forum -
:-{ much much more:
:-{ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
:-{ > http://forums.matronics.com
:-{ your generous support!
:-{ -> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Need Clarification !!! |
I'm not 100% sure but I believe there was an AD or the equivalent that all wiring
be checked and that any wire that was not bundled to a certain spec must be
bundled to that specification. You might notice that they are measuring the distance
between the tie wraps in the video that keeps getting shown on TV. It
is probably something along the lines of a tie wrap every 2 inches and some are
bundled every 2.5 inches.
In the past had this happened the FAA would have given the airline 10 or 15 days
to get the inspections and needed repairs done but because of political pressure
due to the resent South West maintenance problem they grounded the fleet.
zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.ne wrote:
> do not archive.....which has been missing of late.....but I digress....
>
> Listers,
> Beautiful spring day in North Texas, 56 degrees F, bright sun, clear sky, birds
singing, various wildlife doing their thing, etc.
> Appropriate greetings for whatever time zone you inhabit!
>
> My question today involves the "wheelwell wiring on the MD-80" as suffered by
American and others:
>
> > From the very short video clips on network news, showing a mechanic with a
ruler checking spacing of Tyraps & clamps......weren't these aircraft originally
delivered by the manufacturer as shown?
> > Surely mechanics didn't remove clamps and ties on all these aircraft and re-install
new clamps and ties with different, incorrect, spacing just to have something
to do.
> >
>
> As little as I know about the subject , and that's damn little, it looks like
there was a failing in the inspection process back when the N-number was affixed
in the beginning.
> Can some knowledgeable person address this? What little video I've seen places
the wire bundles up on bulkheads where it never moves anyway.
>
> Okay, so feel free to jump in and correct my misguided view.
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/etc
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176178#176178
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But with a $395 set of plans the person will have a vested interest. A
list that has no "requirements" to join allows anybody to inject ideas
without really caring...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: To Matt D
>
> The only flaw with your logic is that you don't have to be smart to get a
> serial #, you just have to have $395. :D , perhaps Zenith could regulate
> this with some form of standardized testing.
>
> --------
> One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176177#176177
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Need Clarification !!! |
At 09:36 AM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
>In the past had this happened the FAA would have given the airline
>10 or 15 days to get the inspections and needed repairs done but
>because of political pressure due to the resent South West
>maintenance problem they grounded the fleet.
The stuff I have heard on Bloomberg TV includes a couple of germane comments:
1. The AD in question was issued some 18 months ago and the
airlines, particularly American, have been ignoring it all this time.
2. The FAA is feeling lots of pressure (which I feel they deserve)
over being too close with the airlines. This was a big issue with
the proposal for user fees pushed by the FAA and the Bush
administration in the last year or two.
According to my wife, the FAA motto is "We're not happy 'till you're
not happy."
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | New lists (humor?) |
I see a pressing need for some other lists:
- Zenith common construction techniques (rudder, main gear, firewall, front
gear, grinding rivet puller heads, etc)
- Zenith 601 non-XL (main gear bungees, wings don't fall off, etc)
- 601XL dual-stick and Y-stick lists (never have to hear annoying posts from
the wrong-thinking others)
- 601XL wings-fall-off, redesign, we-are-all-going-to-die,
I'm-going-to-reinforce, Zenith-ought-to, NTSB DIY, more-testing, etc
- 601XL painters
- 601XL polishers
- 601XL glass panels
- 601XL steam gauges
- 601XL scratch builders
- 601XL QBK
- 601XL I pulled a rivet today (empty list)
If we work this right each list will have only a single member and no
disagreements.
-- Craig
Do not archive
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Hello Listers & Matt:
I am against splitting the list, even at the height of controversy there
really isn't enough traffic to overwhem my delete key.
I am an on again off again 701 plans builder.
What the two models have in common on this list is the wonderful advise
from the various builders.
Everyone with any substance on this list who subscribes to a new list
will continue on the 601 just to benefit from, for example, Larry
MacFarland's (601 builder) and other extert builder's advice.
I know I will.
I have gladly lent my tooling (701) to several 601 builders who have all
taken great care in use and shipping. these are the people who count.
If one really thinks this through there is a great amount of "overlap"
between the models.
I would never leave a forum I enjoy just because malcontents are being
dumb about something. I can just delete the messages without reading as
fast as I can press the delete key.
I've had people who disagree with me try to run me off airports and
skeet ranges, hasn't happened yet, but you'd be surprised how gingerly
they approach you on the skeet range when you have a loaded shotgun!
If the list splits, I'll just subscribe to both, but I still think it's
unnecessary.
Best Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
This was put up for a vote a few years ago and voted down. I voted
against it, I have since changed my mind. About the only thing a 601
and 701/801 have in common is the name Zenith. They are totally two
different type airplanes built for absolute different purposes. It
makes no logic to lump them together in the same list.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Great news for the 701 and 801 people! Glad Matt could see the need for it. The
601 and the 701/801 ARE two different aircraft, I agree. Will be glad to go
over on your List when you get it. I for one, learn a lot from BOTH groups
of airplanes. You'll see me there I'm sure.
Now all we have to do is get the "other people" to stay on task and NOT interject
any foul or nasty attitudes on this forum. Just please do us all a favor?
If your planning on coming on here to cause trouble, find someplace else to
create it. Check your ATTITUDE before you click the button to access this forum.
Anybody out here agree with that statement?
I personally have voiced my complaint directly to Matt D. about certain things
being said yesterday. It was uncalled for and I for one was NOT amused by those
statements. The facts be known, there was SEVERAL great guys that have
threatened OR followed through it, to leave this forum. To those guys, I for
one, will miss your input.....as to the other guys creating problems on here.......I
could go for many, many MONTHS without words of anger or misuse of this
forum. I have given Matt the archive number to read from yesterday and I HOPE
he does something about it. Why should the rest of us have to suffer when
certain people decide to have a really bad day and take it out on the rest of
us to have to put up with? I will be the first to admit I myself have had a few
"meltdowns" on here but I don't believe I was using foul language or creating
a person attack on someone either.......I hope I have more class than that.
If I'm wrong about this statement, then I want to
fully apologize if I ever offended anyone.
Go ahead - your turn - flame away.
Larry Hursh
CH601XL (Building from Kits - Just beginning)
(N601LL Reserved)
SkyriderSBN@Yahoo.com
Keep your eyes skyward - always!
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: 701 throttle rods |
Hi Tony,
I am building a 601, but I suspect the situation is similar to the 701.
First let me say that I believe the kit plane industry standard for
completion of a kit only addresses the airframe. This leaves the
remaining tasks for getting a flying plane to the kit builder. These
tasks include installing the engine and controls, designing and
creating the instrument panel and all its contents, paint,
upholstery, and probably lots of other things I haven't yet encountered.
I bought a firewall-forward kit along with a new Jabiru engine for my
XL. I have been extremely disappointed with the poor documentation
and shaky design of the kit contents. The linkages for throttle and
other engine compartment items needed to be redesigned (by me) to
make them work without binding. I have completed the process for the
throttle and accepted a little rough handling of the choke. I don't
feel cheated by the FWF supplier because the kit brought me from
completely lost to having ideas that didn't work well but could be
modified to work properly. On the other hand, the experience did
make it clear to me that the design and support from Zenith is top
notch compared to other companies in the kit plane industry.
I don't know how you can get the needed help to get the engine
controls running smoothly. Perhaps you can use expertise from a
local EAA chapter. I would personally try to help if it was
practical, but I suspect this would be difficult over the Internet
since I have no knowledge of the 701 design. If you want to write to
me off list with specifics of the throttle problem perhaps I can make
some useful comment on how to get "There" from "Here".
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 09:11 AM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
>Hi guys, me again.
>
>I'm getting close to finishing, but the instructions sort of leave out
>the instrument panel. I've got Dave Thompson's cool Visio template's,
>but I still need to know where the throttle rods come through. If the
>throttle rods are perpendicular to the panel and firewall, they end up
>a lot closer to the center of the panel than I've seen in some builder
>photos. If you take the rods outboard of perpendicular, don't their
>pivots bind as they sweep through their range? Or are you guys bending
>the rods to make them perpendicular at the firewall? And where should
>the choke come through the panel?
>
>Thanks!
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Thanks Matt.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 4/11/2008 9:57:01 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
dralle@matronics.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Zenith Listers,
Okay, "uncle"... :-) I'll create a new 601 specific and a new 701/801
specific Zenith list. Give me a few days to get it done. Its a fair amount of
work and takes about a day to get everything updated and working. I'll post
a follow up when they're ready to go.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
At 08:09 AM 4/11/2008 Friday, you wrote:
>This was put up for a vote a few years ago and voted down. I voted against
it, I have since changed my mind. About the only thing a 601 and 701/801
have in common is the name Zenith. They are totally two different type
airplanes built for absolute different purposes. It makes no logic to lump them
together in the same list. A separate 701/801 list would be best. In fact I
would not be opposed to inviting (like) STOL aircraft builders to join in, such
as the Savannah. Why not? After all this is supposed to be for sharing
and learning things of common interest. In my opinion the 601 does fit this
communally and I have very little interest in it.
>
>Take care, LRM <http://www.skyhawg.com>www.skyhawg.com
>From: <mailto:Elwood140@aol.com>Elwood140@aol.com
>To: <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:38 AM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
>I'll vote for that! Based on the amount of 'watermelon conversation'
appearing on this list for the last few months, I think a separate 701/801 list
is
in order.
>
>Larry Wood
>
>(N701LW still aborning )
>
>In a message dated 4/11/2008 8:12:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
<mailto:jnbolding1@teleshare.net>jnbolding1@teleshare.net writes:
>
>OH PLEASE YES !!!
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "dj45" <dj45@modempool.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 AM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
>
>>
>> Yes, please do
>>
>> Dan Stanton
>> N9801S
>> 99.9% Done & Flying
>> 701-40% done
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176129#176129
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 44
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Now that is a GOOD idea.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 4/11/2008 10:16:24 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes:
If you do start a new list for each model Zenith you might want to include
only people who have a serial number assigned to them.
Example: Steve Weston
# 6-6960
This will keep the experts who dont have a clue AWAY from real builders.....
SW
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Gnuse,
We all feel for your loss, for it is all of our loss. Each time an incident as
such happens it hurts all of us. Without being insensitive, I am truly interested
to know whether or not Robert was aware of the letter dated March 25th by
C. Heintz and whether or not the modification was installed. I ask this question
directly to you since you seem to have known Robert personally. You also
mention his meticulous work. Are you aware of any work that was performed on
the aircraft that was outside of the realm of normal maintenance? Again, I
do not wish to be insensitive to the loss of your personal friend, but I would
and I am certain that others would like to know if there are any abnormalities
that we should be aware of.
As far as the press goes, I am always amazed with the amount of "information/misinformation"
that is fed to the public that is not only inaccurate but outright
ridiculous. We recently had an accident that occurred on our construction
site, with helicopters circling and news reporters digging for information. THE
ONLY PIECE OF INFORMATION IN THE ENTIRE STORY IN THE PAPER WAS THE CITY THAT
THE ACCIDENT OCCURRED IN!!! THE REST OF THE INFORMATION WAS THE REPORTERS IMAGINATION.
gnuse wrote:
> Robert bought this plane last year, he flew almost everyday the weather permitted.
He was meticulous in his work, kind, friendly, and serious about his flying
skills. As one poster stated, he had bought the plane two months ago............please
put your brain in gear before your mouth and keyboard lead you astray.
>
> Some of these posts to this thread are totally without basis, full of speculation,
and insensitive.
>
> I think some of the posters should get the facts rather that believing "stuff"
the press puts out and you might want to check your aircraft to see how well
it was built.
>
> Yes, he was a friend and an enthusiastic fellow pilot.
>
> This is my first post to the Zenith list, but I have been on the Matronics list
for over a decade, so forget the thoughts of this being from someone that just
dropped in for this one post.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176192#176192
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On the other hand, potential builders will be prevented from learning from
the list before they decide to take the plunge.
I joined this list, as many others did (and do) before I had committed to
the 601. I even bought my plans from a subscriber that changed his mind on
his design of choice (went the RV route).
So, I don't think this fixes anything.
The only remedy I see is judicious application of the delete key - which, on
my PC, is getting a real workout in the past several months...
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 11/04/2008, steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>
> But with a $395 set of plans the person will have a vested interest. A
> list that has no "requirements" to join allows anybody to inject ideas
> without really caring...
>
> SW
Message 47
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On the other hand, if a goup of retired Lockheed, Boeing, Northrup & Grumman
Aeronautical Engineers heard of the interest in a design review, (as I
gather is desired by the 601 Builders?) and volunteered their help, they
would then be turned away because they haven't purchased plans?
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
Opps, there I go again, a 701 guy crossing model lines to comment on 601
issues! Sorry! Overlap again?
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve" <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: To Matt D
>
> But with a $395 set of plans the person will have a vested interest. A
> list that has no "requirements" to join allows anybody to inject ideas
> without really caring...
>
> SW
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
Very nice finish!
Are the metal leading wing tops in the plans? I'll have to go back over them as
I don't want white on the ends of polished wings.
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176197#176197
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| Subject: | Re: New lists (humor?) |
Do not Archive
Good post Craig:
Are the people who desire separate lists naive enough to think the "BS
experts" will dutifully stay at the 601 list and not follow them to the new
list?
Back to work now,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: New lists (humor?)
>
> I see a pressing need for some other lists:
>
> - Zenith common construction techniques (rudder, main gear, firewall,
front
> gear, grinding rivet puller heads, etc)
> - Zenith 601 non-XL (main gear bungees, wings don't fall off, etc)
> - 601XL dual-stick and Y-stick lists (never have to hear annoying posts
from
> the wrong-thinking others)
> - 601XL wings-fall-off, redesign, we-are-all-going-to-die,
> I'm-going-to-reinforce, Zenith-ought-to, NTSB DIY, more-testing, etc
> - 601XL painters
> - 601XL polishers
> - 601XL glass panels
> - 601XL steam gauges
> - 601XL scratch builders
> - 601XL QBK
> - 601XL I pulled a rivet today (empty list)
>
> If we work this right each list will have only a single member and no
> disagreements.
>
> -- Craig
> Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: 701 throttle rods |
Paul
I ve been building airplanes since 1967 (thereabouts).
What I ve concluded is this.
If you've been around airplanes and see how "its" supposed to be done, then
doing mods or experiments can be rewarding. Maybe you will come up with a
better way of doing things.
BUT, if you totally new to this avocation its best to go by the book.
Pity the guy who lives waaay out in the boondocks and has never seen the
cowl removed from an airplane....
Actually you can spot these builders at flyinns because things like panel
wiring look like a ball of spaghetti noodles....
Newbie's, in my opinion, need to copy other experienced builders or
manufacturers.
Again, when the newbie has experience then he/she can go off on their own
designing a "better mousetrap"..
My Jabiru FWF package had everything need to complete the project. Yet I m
sure glad I have experience with Jabiru installations. My first was an
adventure... My new 3300A went smoothly and I love Jabiru....
Steve Weston
6-6960
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 throttle rods
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> I am building a 601, but I suspect the situation is similar to the 701.
>
> First let me say that I believe the kit plane industry standard for
> completion of a kit only addresses the airframe. This leaves the
> remaining tasks for getting a flying plane to the kit builder. These
> tasks include installing the engine and controls, designing and creating
> the instrument panel and all its contents, paint, upholstery, and probably
> lots of other things I haven't yet encountered.
>
> I bought a firewall-forward kit along with a new Jabiru engine for my XL.
> I have been extremely disappointed with the poor documentation and shaky
> design of the kit contents. The linkages for throttle and other engine
> compartment items needed to be redesigned (by me) to make them work
> without binding. I have completed the process for the throttle and
> accepted a little rough handling of the choke. I don't feel cheated by
> the FWF supplier because the kit brought me from completely lost to having
> ideas that didn't work well but could be modified to work properly. On
> the other hand, the experience did make it clear to me that the design and
> support from Zenith is top notch compared to other companies in the kit
> plane industry.
>
> I don't know how you can get the needed help to get the engine controls
> running smoothly. Perhaps you can use expertise from a local EAA chapter.
> I would personally try to help if it was practical, but I suspect this
> would be difficult over the Internet since I have no knowledge of the 701
> design. If you want to write to me off list with specifics of the
> throttle problem perhaps I can make some useful comment on how to get
> "There" from "Here".
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
> do not archive
>
>
> At 09:11 AM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
>>Hi guys, me again.
>>
>>I'm getting close to finishing, but the instructions sort of leave out
>>the instrument panel. I've got Dave Thompson's cool Visio template's,
>>but I still need to know where the throttle rods come through. If the
>>throttle rods are perpendicular to the panel and firewall, they end up
>>a lot closer to the center of the panel than I've seen in some builder
>>photos. If you take the rods outboard of perpendicular, don't their
>>pivots bind as they sweep through their range? Or are you guys bending
>>the rods to make them perpendicular at the firewall? And where should
>>the choke come through the panel?
>>
>>Thanks!
>
>
>
Message 51
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Don't tell anyone on this all AL list, but if Preceptor had the sale last fall
that they have now on Ultra Pups....well you get the idea. :)
Do not archive
Tim Juhl wrote:
> RE: Ragwing - I suspect the champ would fly as long as the tail and wings were
covered (remember the breezy?) Wouldn't be very fast :-)
>
> Personally I like fabric airplanes.... just don't let anyone carrying a sharp
object get too close :-) Aluminum certainly has the edge in durability.
>
> Tim
> Do not archive
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176199#176199
Message 52
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, steve wrote:
> If you do start a new list for each model Zenith you might want to
> include only people who have a serial number assigned to them.
>
> Example: Steve Weston
> # 6-6960
>
> This will keep the experts who dont have a clue AWAY from real builders.....
It will also keep away a number of potential builders.
I've been lurking on this list for more years than I care to think about.
I've been looking to build for a long time. The 701 is on my very short
list. But so are several other planes. If I couldn't get a feel of the
builder community, I'd probably scratch that plane off my list.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID
Message 53
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Thanks Matt for the new list.
Mark S.
701/912ULS painting
do not archive
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Please refresh me on the Mod from C heintz dated March 25th.... Is that
about elevator travel limits ??
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash
>
> Gnuse,
>
> We all feel for your loss, for it is all of our loss. Each time an
> incident as such happens it hurts all of us. Without being insensitive, I
> am truly interested to know whether or not Robert was aware of the letter
> dated March 25th by C. Heintz and whether or not the modification was
> installed. I ask this question directly to you since you seem to have
> known Robert personally. You also mention his meticulous work. Are you
> aware of any work that was performed on the aircraft that was outside of
> the realm of normal maintenance? Again, I do not wish to be insensitive
> to the loss of your personal friend, but I would and I am certain that
> others would like to know if there are any abnormalities that we should be
> aware of.
>
> As far as the press goes, I am always amazed with the amount of
> "information/misinformation" that is fed to the public that is not only
> inaccurate but outright ridiculous. We recently had an accident that
> occurred on our construction site, with helicopters circling and news
> reporters digging for information. THE ONLY PIECE OF INFORMATION IN THE
> ENTIRE STORY IN THE PAPER WAS THE CITY THAT THE ACCIDENT OCCURRED IN!!!
> THE REST OF THE INFORMATION WAS THE REPORTERS IMAGINATION.
>
>
> gnuse wrote:
>> Robert bought this plane last year, he flew almost everyday the weather
>> permitted. He was meticulous in his work, kind, friendly, and serious
>> about his flying skills. As one poster stated, he had bought the plane
>> two months ago............please put your brain in gear before your mouth
>> and keyboard lead you astray.
>>
>> Some of these posts to this thread are totally without basis, full of
>> speculation, and insensitive.
>>
>> I think some of the posters should get the facts rather that believing
>> "stuff" the press puts out and you might want to check your aircraft to
>> see how well it was built.
>>
>> Yes, he was a friend and an enthusiastic fellow pilot.
>>
>> This is my first post to the Zenith list, but I have been on the
>> Matronics list for over a decade, so forget the thoughts of this being
>> from someone that just dropped in for this one post.
>
>
> --------
> One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176192#176192
>
>
>
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Yet Randy. Know that everyone who says that they are engineers and in fact
are NOT.
Do you know engineers? I m not one but know a few. Some are goofy. Most
are excellent sources for advise...
Steve W.
"Rocket Scientist extradornire"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: To Matt D
> <n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
> On the other hand, if a goup of retired Lockheed, Boeing, Northrup &
> Grumman
> Aeronautical Engineers heard of the interest in a design review, (as I
> gather is desired by the 601 Builders?) and volunteered their help, they
> would then be turned away because they haven't purchased plans?
>
> Regards,
>
> Randy, Las Vegas
>
> Opps, there I go again, a 701 guy crossing model lines to comment on 601
> issues! Sorry! Overlap again?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "steve" <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: To Matt D
>
>
>>
>> But with a $395 set of plans the person will have a vested interest. A
>> list that has no "requirements" to join allows anybody to inject ideas
>> without really caring...
>>
>> SW
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
Kevin
Carlos is building an HD. They have the different wing tips, I believe.
Kevin
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net>
>
> Very nice finish!
> Are the metal leading wing tops in the plans? I'll have to go back over them
as
>
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Thanks Matt,
Keivn
Do Not Archive
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176207#176207
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Yes. I can not post a link (zenith requests that we not attach links to items
in the builders area, since other proprietary information is contained) however
I would be glad to send you the letter if requested.
It is in the builder area, under 601 XL naturally.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176209#176209
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
Rats, But I assume it could be done the same way, Its just nicer looking IMHO.
Kevin
Do not archive
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176210#176210
Message 60
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Frank I basically agree with you, but do you agree that if someone who
doesnt know much about Zenith should not inject ideas on how to build a
Zenith ??
That seems to be the problem on most websites. People who dont know and
give advise.
ei, I m a Cessna pilot. Your V tail is dangerous because they had tail
failures. I will not fly a Bonanza. Oh by the way, I m a Cessna dealer and
if you want I ll make you a deal. Come on down to my showroom.
Bring the kids, bring the wife, well dicker....
SW
Its a joke, I love Bonanzas.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Stutzman" <stutzman@stutzman.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: To Matt D
>
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, steve wrote:
>
>> If you do start a new list for each model Zenith you might want to
>> include only people who have a serial number assigned to them.
>>
>> Example: Steve Weston
>> # 6-6960
>>
>> This will keep the experts who dont have a clue AWAY from real
>> builders.....
>
> It will also keep away a number of potential builders.
>
> I've been lurking on this list for more years than I care to think about.
> I've been looking to build for a long time. The 701 is on my very short
> list. But so are several other planes. If I couldn't get a feel of the
> builder community, I'd probably scratch that plane off my list.
>
>
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Boise, ID
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Wang Chung lives................... |
Yes Steve, Is AMASING how many "Wangs" we can find all over the world...
Here we have two of them.... Fortunatly one anounced his "retirement" from
aviation because of healt issues. We all got happy for beeing that fortunate
:-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
DO NOT ARCHIVE.
steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net> wrote:
A few months ago I told the list about "Wang Chung".. I know one guy
was pissed at me and left the group, has not been back..
To refresh I d like to remind you about Wang. I was a member of the Avid Flyer
and Jabiru websites. A very good group of builders and flyers. We each
told of our experiences to help others and also for that comrade.
After you have a few "years" of being a CFI, Commercial or Private with hundreds
if not thousands of flying / building hours, you kinda know when someone
makes statements which I ll call BULL SHIT.
Wang was a BS er.... He knew everything about Avids and Jabiru engines. I
watched my computer screen and Wang gave new builders his expertise and guided
them through the construction of their airplanes,,,
Something's just didn't seem right with his statements so I looked him up on
the FAA roster and he WASN'T THERE....
From the list I met someone who actually knew Wang. Rick was Wangs "friend"
but they had to give up on a partnership in an airplane because Wang really didn't
know anything about building or flying. In fact Wang was about to head
out to the local airport for his FIRST airplane ride...
So, here was this expert giving beginners the straight scoop on how to build
and fly...
Then I got a call from the Jabiru dealer ( we are friends ) and was asked if
I knew Wang. Apparently he was on that list telling everyone how to install their
Jabirus....
Then on to the KitFox website he went. More BS....
We have Wangs here on the Zenith site. If your giving info to the list, know
that what you say will be believed by some. You might even cause that big accident
with your expertise..
One last quick one, then I ll go.
I owned a Cessna 172 for about seven years. I taught people to fly the thing
as it was sooo easy to handle. On a website for newbie's I saw this CFI telling
students how to fly the 172.. Some statements were a little out in left field
so I asked him what was the recommended speed to land the 172. He typed
the list and said the best speed for the 172 in landing is 96 MPH.....
Yep 96.......
How many new students went off thinking god had said 96. ????
Enough of my blah blah blahhhhh....
Sorry to type on and on. It just gets me going when I see EXPERTS telling everyone
whats the right way to build and fly. ESPECIALLY when their name is WANG...
Steve Weston
__________________________________________________
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I think, at this point, we are scaring away more folks than not. I'm not totally
in the "everything is hunky dory" camp myself but, I do worry about the damage
that is being caused to the Zenith reputation. I'm not going to speculate and
spread my own paranoia around. Though, neither am I going to cuss anyone out--for
being human and having a little paranoia in such a situation as this. I
wish everyone would just have some tact about what they say. Maybe those who
want to discuss making mods to their own aircraft can set up a chat session or
yahoo group. I would probably participate in that. I have my suspicions that
some of those who are flaming and raising a ruckus wouldn't let that group alone
though either.
Kevin Bonds (if that is my real name)
http://home.comcast.com/~kevinbonds (so you know I am a builder)
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
>
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, steve wrote:
>
If I couldn't get a feel of the
> builder community, I'd probably scratch that plane off my list.
>
>
> Frank Stutzman
>
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
(1) The all-metal wing tip is not in the plans (HD/HDS or XL) - but it is fairly
easy to make. And I don't think it would be much different for the XL.
If anyone want details, let me know.
(2) I posted a picture of the wing locker a while back, still accessible:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123712#123712
--------
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176215#176215
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
No. I'm with you. I thought the same thing. But you would lose the effect of the
Horner tip. What would be really cool would be to shape an aluminum horner tip.
Kevin Bonds
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net>
>
> Rats, But I assume it could be done the same way, Its just nicer looking IMHO.
>
> Kevin
>
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
Kevin, the Horner tip is still there. See attached picture - a bit older, before
polishing and riveting.
--------
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176220#176220
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_tip_img_1709_249.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
I'm sure this has been hashed over before, but has anyone ever weighed their XL
before and after to see how much extra weight a typical paint job adds?
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176222#176222
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
MHerder wrote:
> Gnuse,
>
> We all feel for your loss, for it is all of our loss. Each time an incident
as such happens it hurts all of us. Without being insensitive, I am truly interested
to know whether or not Robert was aware of the letter dated March 25th
by C. Heintz and whether or not the modification was installed. I ask this question
directly to you since you seem to have known Robert personally. You also
mention his meticulous work. Are you aware of any work that was performed
on the aircraft that was outside of the realm of normal maintenance? Again,
I do not wish to be insensitive to the loss of your personal friend, but I would
and I am certain that others would like to know if there are any abnormalities
that we should be aware of.
>
> As far as the press goes, I am always amazed with the amount of "information/misinformation"
that is fed to the public that is not only inaccurate but outright
ridiculous. We recently had an accident that occurred on our construction
site, with helicopters circling and news reporters digging for information.
THE ONLY PIECE OF INFORMATION IN THE ENTIRE STORY IN THE PAPER WAS THE CITY THAT
THE ACCIDENT OCCURRED IN!!! THE REST OF THE INFORMATION WAS THE REPORTERS
IMAGINATION.
>
>
>
I am not so concerned about my loss as that of his family. I just don't understand
fellow pilots (maybe they aren't even real pilots) that post garbage they
dig up from grossly inaccurate sources, they make speculations without any basis
of knowledge, and are generally insensitive.
Personally I think the entire aviation community loses when something like this
happens.
My mention of him being meticulous is based on his other hobbies, his hangar, etc.
His plane was always clean and tidy. I am sure never did any more work on
the plane than that of owner maintenance. I don't know about nor heard the name
Heintz, but that is not surprising as we usually talked about flying and other
activities.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176225#176225
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
Hi Tim,
I don't have the actual numbers, but I would guess the painted weight
might be 10 or 20 pounds more than the bare weight. You need only a
gallon or two of paint to do the exterior and most of the weight of
the paint is in the solvents. Even if the whole weight of the two
gallons of paint were added to the plane that would only be 20 pounds or so.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 11:47 AM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
>I'm sure this has been hashed over before, but has anyone ever
>weighed their XL before and after to see how much extra weight a
>typical paint job adds?
>
>Tim
Message 69
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008, steve wrote:
>
> Frank I basically agree with you, but do you agree that if someone who doesnt
> know much about Zenith should not inject ideas on how to build a Zenith ??
> That seems to be the problem on most websites. People who dont know and give
> advise.
Well, I agree, it certainly would be nice if people who were not
knowlegable about a subject kept their opinions to themselves.
However in my limited years on this planet, thats just not the way the
human race works. Wether its building an airplane or picking a watermelon
at the grocery store, I can always find someone who claims to know more
the topic than I do. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Its up to me to
decide wether to take their advice or not.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
The last Yahoo list I was on resulted in my email spam doubling. Is
this still the case?
Dan Wilde
701 Complete and ready to move to the airport.
MacDonald Doug wrote:
>
> I also am a little overwhelmed at times by the 601
> talk on this list. A combination of it being the most
> popular Zenith model and it's builders being the most
> vocal. I don't fault anyone for this but that is the
> way it is.
>
> As for a STOL only list, that sort of already exists.
> There is the 701/801 Yahoo group. While it would be
> nice to have a Matronics list specifically for the
> STOL series, I'm not sure it would be practical.
>
> Anyone interested can get there at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/
>
> Doug MacDonald
> CH-701 Scratch Builder
> NW Ontario, Canada
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> --- Mark Colbeck <mark@masterpieceliving.ca> wrote:
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
gnuse,
Let's face it... people are frightened. We want to accept the assurances from
Zenith that the design is sound but then something happens to stir things up again.
What you are seeing on this list is the broad scope of how humans react
to their fears and uncertainty. We certainly mean no disrespect to the deceased
and feel for his family in friends. I suspect that in our imagination we
all place ourselves in that cockpit during those final moments.
People can be forgiven for wanting answers but wild speculation is not helpful.
We must be patient and let the experts do their jobs. Don't believe for one
minute that the folks at Zenith don't want answers too. Remember that one of
the reasons we all chose to build Zenith aircraft was because of the great folks
running the company.
We all need to remember that while at such times it is important to be able to
talk with others who might understand our concerns, at the same time we may be
sending an unintended message to others who thru the internet happen to come
across our comments. For myself, if I have said anything that offends, I offer
my sincere apology.
Tim Juhl
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176234#176234
Message 72
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| Subject: | Re: 701 throttle rods |
I am flying a 701 I built with a 912uls engine. I now have over 100 hours on it.
At about 75 hours I decided to remove the right hand throttle rod completely. I
decided that it wasn't necessary, as the passenger could very easily reach over
and operate the one on the left side. I blocked off that hole in the firewall.
I latter utilized that hole to run some wires through so it wasn't a waste.
At that time I changed my friction throttle cable over to the vernier type,
the one with the button that has to be depressed or turned to move the throttle
setting. I like this much better then the friction throttle. More then once
the throttle would advance when on the ground or in the air, downright dangerous.
I no longer have that problem, it will not move unless I want it to.
Ron lee
Tucson, AZ
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176238#176238
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| Subject: | reflective tape for N numbers and tirm |
hi guys
Is there a rule that you cannot use reflective tape
for making your N numbers and perhaps trim on the
aircraft.
It seems like a logical and safe thing to do. I know
you can see them a mile away at night with a minimum
of light shining on them. If is is legal to use them,
i can't imagine why everyone should not use them to
increase the chance of being seen at night. Is there a
downside to this.
john butterfield
Xl, corvair
torrance, Ca
__________________________________________________
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re: 701 throttle rods |
Hello, Ron
Do you have a picture or part number?
Carlos
Do not archive
On 11/04/2008, ronlee <rlee468@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I am flying a 701 I built with a 912uls engine. I now have over 100 hours
> on it.
> At about 75 hours I decided to remove the right hand throttle rod
> completely. I decided that it wasn't necessary, as the passenger could very
> easily reach over and operate the one on the left side. I blocked off that
> hole in the firewall. I latter utilized that hole to run some wires through
> so it wasn't a waste. At that time I changed my friction throttle cable over
> to the vernier type, the one with the button that has to be depressed or
> turned to move the throttle setting. I like this much better then the
> friction throttle. More then once the throttle would advance when on the
> ground or in the air, downright dangerous. I no longer have that problem, it
> will not move unless I want it to.
> Ron lee
> Tucson, AZ
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
Message 75
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
I stand corrected. I guess I misunderstood what a horner tip was
exactly. I've read CH's description of it, but thought that the
fiberglass tip was more concave than it actually is. I see that now. I
am plans building, and haven't made the wingtips yet, so I do not have
an example to hold in my hands. Thanks for setting me straight.
Kevin Bonds
Carlos Sa wrote:
>
> Kevin, the Horner tip is still there. See attached picture - a bit older, before
polishing and riveting.
>
> --------
> CH601-HD, plans
> Montreal, Canada
>
Message 76
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| Subject: | Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm |
As a sign manufacture, the only down side would be the cost. Reflective high
performance vinyl is about 3-4 times the price. As far as it working there
should be no problem with the vinyl but I have no idea on the regs.
John (Scratch building 701)
Kaufman, Tx
----- Original Message -----
From: "john butterfield" <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:13 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm
> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> hi guys
>
> Is there a rule that you cannot use reflective tape
> for making your N numbers and perhaps trim on the
> aircraft.
>
> It seems like a logical and safe thing to do. I know
> you can see them a mile away at night with a minimum
> of light shining on them. If is is legal to use them,
> i can't imagine why everyone should not use them to
> increase the chance of being seen at night. Is there a
> downside to this.
>
> john butterfield
> Xl, corvair
> torrance, Ca
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 77
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|
| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
COMMERCIAL OPPORTUNITY ALERT, ALERT, ALERT! Here's an opportunity fo
r someone who's good with fiberglass--How about creating a set of Horn
er tips we can slip on the ends of the wings? Cutting those (&^&*#$%^&
contours nearly drove me crazy....although for me it's a short putt.
All it would take to attach them would be an additional rib at the (s
quared) outer end of the aileron, and you could slip them on a la Cess
na.=0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A ----- O
riginal Message ----- =0A From: Kevin Bonds<mailto:kevinbonds@comc
ast.net> =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matr
onics.com> =0A Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 4:07 PM=0A Subject
: Re: Zenith-List: Re: airplane building, anyone?=0A=0A=0A -
mailto:kevinbonds@comcast.net>>=0A=0A I stand corrected. I gues
s I misunderstood what a horner tip was =0A exactly. I've read CH'
s description of it, but thought that the =0A fiberglass tip was m
ore concave than it actually is. I see that now. I =0A am plans bu
ilding, and haven't made the wingtips yet, so I do not have =0A an
example to hold in my hands. Thanks for setting me straight.=0A
=0A Kevin Bonds=0A=0A=0A Carlos Sa wrote:=0A > --> Zeni
th-List message posted by: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com<mailto:car
losfsa@yahoo.com>>=0A >=0A > Kevin, the Horner tip is still th
ere. See attached picture - a bit older, before polishing and riveting
=0A >=0A > --------=0A > CH601-HD, plans=0A > Montrea
=======================
=======================
tronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Z
=======================
======================0A
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
====0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 78
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| Subject: | Re: 701 throttle rods |
Carlos,
I got the control from Aircraft Spruce.
A-790 Vernier Control.
ACS part number is 05-08348 $52.50. This is the 4 foot one, the three footer
may be long enough though. It's part number is 05-08336, same price in my book.
Be careful when you shorten it as it is easy to loose the ball bearing. It will
fall out if you pull the handle out too far.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176250#176250
Message 79
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| Subject: | Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm |
Heck I ve seen numbers made from black electrical tape. Looked very bad but
were legal...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Short" <creativesigns@embarqmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm
> <creativesigns@embarqmail.com>
>
> As a sign manufacture, the only down side would be the cost. Reflective
> high performance vinyl is about 3-4 times the price. As far as it working
> there should be no problem with the vinyl but I have no idea on the regs.
>
> John (Scratch building 701)
> Kaufman, Tx
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john butterfield" <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
> To: "Zenith-List Digest Server" <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:13 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm
>
>
>> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>>
>> hi guys
>>
>> Is there a rule that you cannot use reflective tape
>> for making your N numbers and perhaps trim on the
>> aircraft.
>>
>> It seems like a logical and safe thing to do. I know
>> you can see them a mile away at night with a minimum
>> of light shining on them. If is is legal to use them,
>> i can't imagine why everyone should not use them to
>> increase the chance of being seen at night. Is there a
>> downside to this.
>>
>> john butterfield
>> Xl, corvair
>> torrance, Ca
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 80
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|
| Subject: | Corvair 701 On Kitplanes Blog |
Gus's 701 is featured http://www.kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/
If this was two separate groups you might not have found out about that.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176256#176256
Message 81
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| Subject: | Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm |
That's probably what mine will be during the 40 hour phase 1 period. The shop that
is going to paint my plane is over 25 miles away.
notsew_evets(at)frontiern wrote:
> Heck I ve seen numbers made from black electrical tape. Looked very bad but
> were legal...
> SW
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176258#176258
Message 82
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
THANK YOU Matt.
--------
Do not archive
Dan Stanton
N9801S
99.9% Done & Flying
701-40% done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176257#176257
Message 83
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
I do fiberglass projects. Build and sell on eBay a nose wheel
fairing that attaches to the top of the wheel pant. I got ta tell ya,
it aint easy to make moulds and produce fiberglass products...
After you do make moulds and then the finished product the retail price
will kill you.... Thats why Cessna, Piper etc sells their tips at $700
or more....
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: paulrod36@msn.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: airplane building, anyone?
COMMERCIAL OPPORTUNITY ALERT, ALERT, ALERT! Here's an opportunity
for someone who's good with fiberglass--How about creating a set of
Horner tips we can slip on the ends of the wings? Cutting those
(&^&*#$%^& contours nearly drove me crazy....although for me it's a
short putt. All it would take to attach them would be an additional rib
at the (squared) outer end of the aileron, and you could slip them on a
la Cessna.
Paul Rodriguez
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Bonds
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: airplane building, anyone?
<kevinbonds@comcast.net>
I stand corrected. I guess I misunderstood what a horner tip was
exactly. I've read CH's description of it, but thought that the
fiberglass tip was more concave than it actually is. I see that now.
I
am plans building, and haven't made the wingtips yet, so I do not
have
an example to hold in my hands. Thanks for setting me straight.
Kevin Bonds
Carlos Sa wrote:
<carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Kevin, the Horner tip is still there. See attached picture - a bit
older, before polishing and riveting.
>
> --------
> CH601-HD, plans
>
=====================nbsp;
- The Zenith-List Email Forum -<;
http:/=======================
=======================nbsp
; - MATRONICS WEonics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.========
===========
nbsp; &nb;
http://www.matronics.com/c================
==
Message 84
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| Subject: | Re: Need Clarification !!! |
What does this have to do with the 601, 01 or the 801???????
----- Original Message ----
From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 9:36:15 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Need Clarification !!!
I'm not 100% sure but I believe there was an AD or the equivalent that all wiring
be checked and that any wire that was not bundled to a certain spec must be
bundled to that specification. You might notice that they are measuring the distance
between the tie wraps in the video that keeps getting shown on TV. It
is probably something along the lines of a tie wrap every 2 inches and some are
bundled every 2.5 inches.
In the past had this happened the FAA would have given the airline 10 or 15 days
to get the inspections and needed repairs done but because of political pressure
due to the resent South West maintenance problem they grounded the fleet.
zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.ne wrote:
> do not archive.....which has been missing of late.....but I digress....
>
> Listers,
> Beautiful spring day in North Texas, 56 degrees F, bright sun, clear sky, birds
singing, various wildlife doing their thing, etc.
> Appropriate greetings for whatever time zone you inhabit!
>
> My question today involves the "wheelwell wiring on the MD-80" as suffered by
American and others:
>
> > From the very short video clips on network news, showing a mechanic with a
ruler checking spacing of Tyraps & clamps......weren't these aircraft originally
delivered by the manufacturer as shown?
> > Surely mechanics didn't remove clamps and ties on all these aircraft and re-install
new clamps and ties with different, incorrect, spacing just to have something
to do.
> >
>
> As little as I know about the subject , and that's damn little, it looks like
there was a failing in the inspection process back when the N-number was affixed
in the beginning.
> Can some knowledgeable person address this? What little video I've seen places
the wire bundles up on bulkheads where it never moves anyway.
>
> Okay, so feel free to jump in and correct my misguided view.
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/etc
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176178#176178
Message 85
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
The horner tip is not the swooped (good word :-) ) front part , it is the angle.
20 lbs of paint is a big deal I think it may be more on really cool (metallic and
clear coat) paint jobs.
Ask around to find out how many 701s come in at 580 or even 600 lbs. Instruments/avionics
and paint are your biggies apart from engine choices.
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176267#176267
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/horner_tip_853.gif
Message 86
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| Subject: | Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm |
Gig
What was the cost to have a paint shop do your Zenith ?
I just now finished my own paint job and the cost was $1600 just for paint
and supplies...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm
> <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> That's probably what mine will be during the 40 hour phase 1 period. The
> shop that is going to paint my plane is over 25 miles away.
>
>
> notsew_evets(at)frontiern wrote:
>> Heck I ve seen numbers made from black electrical tape. Looked very bad
>> but
>> were legal...
>> SW
>> ---
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176258#176258
>
>
>
Message 87
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|
Come on Steve, "Experts" are part of the "flavor" in any list
Like the Mother in Law comments about raising your own children . :-) :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive. PLEASE!
steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net> wrote:
If you do start a new list for each model Zenith you might want to include
only people who have a serial number assigned to them.
Example: Steve Weston
# 6-6960
This will keep the experts who dont have a clue AWAY from real builders.....
SW
__________________________________________________
Message 88
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
I googled zenith load test, this was the first hit:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html
Ron
On Apr 11, 2008, at 7:04 AM, David Downey wrote:
> I must not be looking in the right place on the zenith site? Where
> are any images of a negative G test? The only images I saw were the
> airframe inverted and sand bags on the lower surfaces of the wing =
> positive G?
>
> Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
> ... That said, I do have one request of Chris Heintz and Zenith
> aircraft which I can sum up as "Details." They published pictures
> of the most recent structural tests but provided no specific
> information on the results. Was the wing tested to -3 or to - 6
> like it says on my plans. They talk about an extensive flight test
> program... I would like to know the details of such tests. For
> example - was the test aircraft exposed to abrupt full control
> movements at maneuvering speed without experiencing damage? The
> best way to quell wild speculation is to replace it with facts, not
>
>
Message 89
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|
| Subject: | 701 throttle setup |
does anyone have a vernier throttle on one side and the t handle throttle on the
right?
do you have to unlock the left to use the right?
what does everybody have?
anything you would do different?
Tracy
Message 90
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
Part of the effectiveness of the Hoerner (not Horner) tip can be attributed to
that rounded nose part. It is a part of the whole enchilada.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>
>The horner tip is not the swooped (good word :-) ) front part , it is the angle.
>
>
Message 91
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|
I've been wondering about the wings tips. I admit to no knowledge of
the subject, but it seem like you see this type of tips on older
planes. Are better design available today, which would be appropriate
for the 601?
Ron
Message 92
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
???? spelling and pic from:
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/design/design.html
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176291#176291
Message 93
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair 701 On Kitplanes Blog |
Bet not :)
Gig Giacona wrote:
> Gus's 701 is featured http://www.kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/
>
> If this was two separate groups you might not have found out about that.
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176294#176294
Message 94
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|
| Subject: | follow up question about 601 rear spar hole |
Thanks to all of you who made suggestions regarding the 1 1/2 hole in the rear
spar channel for the aileron rod. I think I will move it up to the edge of the
curve,make slightly smaller and probably add the doubler. I read a comment about
being careful on cuts, to not leave any tiny "cracks" on edges as these could
get larger over time. I don't a "fly cutter", as Zenith suggests, but have
found it very useful to use my roto-zip tool to cut many parts, including holes
and then smoothing out with the curve side of my file. These cuts appear to
be quite smooth to me though not as if they were cut with a precision tool, as
some tiny marks are left by the file. Does anyone have experience in this area?
Is a filed piece that has no visible lines going out quite sufficient or am
I being overly concerned about smoothness? Thanks again, John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176296#176296
Message 95
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| Subject: | Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm |
I've got about a year old quote for prep, one color & stripe for $4500
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176300#176300
Message 96
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| Subject: | Re: Hoerner wing tips |
Yes, (according to Zenithair.com) it is "Hoerner" not "horner." Google it. Met-Co-Aire's
web site has a good technical brief on Hoerner tips.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"kmccune" <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>
>???? spelling and pic from:
>
>http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/design/design.html
>
>--------
>Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176291#176291
>
>
Message 97
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
Speaking of Hoerner tips, does anyone know where I can find the layout lines
for building a set of molds for these tips. I was SURE my old RV3 drawings
had them but no joy. Have searched thru most of the well known aero design
books but no joy yet. I can get close with reverse engineering off my RV or
a Grumman but I'd rather start from scratch. Thanks John
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:08 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: airplane building, anyone?
>
> Part of the effectiveness of the Hoerner (not Horner) tip can be
> attributed to that rounded nose part. It is a part of the whole enchilada.
>
Message 98
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Like I said earlier: I must be brain dead! Thanks.
Ronald Steele <rsteele@rjsit.com> wrote: I googled zenith load test, this was
the first hit:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-testing.html
Ron
On Apr 11, 2008, at 7:04 AM, David Downey wrote:
I must not be looking in the right place on the zenith site? Where are any images
of a negative G test? The only images I saw were the airframe inverted and
sand bags on the lower surfaces of the wing = positive G?
Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net> wrote:... That said, I do have one request of Chris Heintz
and Zenith aircraft which I can sum up as "Details." They published pictures
of the most recent structural tests but provided no specific information
on the results. Was the wing tested to -3 or to - 6 like it says on my plans.
They talk about an extensive flight test program... I would like to know the
details of such tests. For example - was the test aircraft exposed to abrupt
full control movements at maneuvering speed without experiencing damage? The
best way to quell wild speculation is to replace it with facts, not
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
__________________________________________________
Message 99
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| Subject: | 701 throttle setup |
does anyone have a vernier throttle on one side and the t handle throttle
on the right?
do you have to unlock the left to use the right?
what does everybody have?
anything you would do different?
Tracy,
My 601 HD is not flying yet, but I have dual friction lock
throttles. The throttles came as part of the JabiruUSA dual throttle kit.
On the co-pilot side I removed the plastic bushing that creates the friction
in the throttle handle. So now only the pilot side throttle provides
friction and friction adjustment. I saved the part to use as a replacement
later. Both throttles can actually be reached from either seat if needed.
Jeff Davidson
Message 100
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
This from the Savannah site I know, but kinda applies!
Empty weight 912ULS 607lbs
Post Script:
A luxuriously-equipped, factory-built, ready-to-fly Savannah including a Rotax
912ULS (100hp) engine, painted
with two coats of primer and 3 coats of solid polyurethane enamel, with radio,
transponder, intercom, GPS, turn
coordinator, trim indicator, strobe/nav lights, ELT, and dual stick grips, and
incorporating all standard equipment
and fluid levels, typically weighs 655lbs. Add full fuel of 21 gallons (126lbs.)
for a ramp weight of 781lbs. This
leaves a payload of 453 lbs. for pilot, passenger and baggage.
Remember higher Savannah gross rating... somehow ???
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176310#176310
Message 101
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Well, the way I get around the SPAM is to use a Yahoo
e-mail account. It has a great spam filter. I use
this account for all of my newsgroups etc. This
limits the exposure of my "real" e-mail address.
Honestly, the Yahoo address has kind of become my real
e-mail address.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
--- Dan <dwilde@clearwire.net> wrote:
> <dwilde@clearwire.net>
>
> The last Yahoo list I was on resulted in my email
> spam doubling. Is
> this still the case?
>
> Dan Wilde
> 701 Complete and ready to move to the airport.
>
__________________________________________________
Message 102
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| Subject: | Re: 701 throttle setup |
I am not flying yet either, but I have exactly the setup you're describing. I
have an A-810 friction lock throttle on the left and the supplied T handle on
the right. I simply filed the friction block down until it gave zero friction
on the throttle bellcrank. Yes, you have to unlock the left side to move the
right.
It seems satisfactory and I'm glad I made the modifications.
Dan Ginty
N787DG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176318#176318
Message 103
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| Subject: | Re: 701 throttle setup |
I do, it came with my Skyshops firewall forward kit. It is not the
pushbutton type but the one with the twist lock collar, works great. The friction
can
be adjusted to work with both sides. No complaints on this end.
Bob spudis
N701ZX/912S/142hrs
In a message dated 4/11/2008 8:11:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pbuttles@charter.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tracy <pbuttles@charter.net>
does anyone have a vernier throttle on one side and the t handle throttle
on the right?
do you have to unlock the left to use the right?
what does everybody have?
anything you would do different?
Tracy
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)
Message 104
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| Subject: | Re: Need Clarification !!! |
In a message dated 4/11/2008 2:55:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bobefx@yahoo.com writes:
I'm not 100% sure but I believe
Nothing and I have double checked the facts three times.
Joe Motis
No Archivos dozo
Danke
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)
Message 105
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| Subject: | Re: New lists (humor?) |
If there is a pressing need for any separate list it would be the:
"I have no qualifications but here are my ill thought out "improvements" to the
601XL wing design" List
and list simply a list known as:
"Speculation as the causes of 601XL Incidents"
Hell, I might even read both of them just for grins.
Oh, one more list:
"I flame because I feel comfortable doing so only behind a keyboard, I would never
actually say these things to your face" list
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176330#176330
Message 106
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| Subject: | Re: New lists (humor?) |
How 'bout the "I like beating dead horses" list.
Kevin Bonds
MHerder wrote:
>
> If there is a pressing need for any separate list it would be the:
>
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