Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:06 AM - Re: New lists (humor?) (kmccune)
2. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm (Kevin Bonds)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: 701/801 List (John Goodings)
4. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: New lists (humor?) (Trainnut01@aol.com)
5. 09:43 AM - Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm (Gig Giacona)
6. 09:58 AM - Re: follow up question about 601 rear spar hole (Tim Juhl)
7. 11:00 AM - Re: follow up question about 601 rear spar hole (David Downey)
8. 12:00 PM - Fibreglass Tail Tip Trim (countzero)
9. 01:09 PM - Skyshop FWF 701 Coolant Route (Roland Smith)
10. 02:07 PM - Re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines (John Reinking)
11. 02:25 PM - Re: Fibreglass Tail Tip Trim (Bryan Martin)
12. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines (Jon Croke)
13. 02:54 PM - Re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines (Gig Giacona)
14. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines (Larry Hursh)
15. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Art Gibeaut)
16. 05:11 PM - Re: To Matt D (Tim Verthein)
17. 05:20 PM - Re:Corvair 701 On Kitplanes Blog (Tim Verthein)
18. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: 701/801 List (LRM)
19. 07:37 PM - exhaust stains (john H)
20. 09:12 PM - Re: exhaust stains (macleod@eagle.ca)
21. 09:30 PM - WATER DAMAGE (kiwiaviator)
22. 09:49 PM - Hole tolerances for my poor drilling?? (Andrewlieser)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: New lists (humor?) |
Do not archive
I'm sure the BS boys and gals will follow, but my main reason for saying thanks
to Matt for making a 701 list, is that I will not have to filter out 601 messages.
Try searching this archive for specific 701 info, bet you have a hard
time finding just what you want. You will have to sift through a LOT of 601 stuff.
Yes, basic construction techniques cross over, but they do with a couple
of non CH designs too. Its a fine airplane, but if I were interested in it, I
would be building one. I will probably look in here now and again as well.
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176356#176356
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| Subject: | Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm |
Just don't let that paint guy sand your rivets flush. Seems like I
remember that happening, to a guy, some time back. Your not going to
paint are you Gig? That polishing job looks awesome! Every time I see a
fine example like that, makes me want to go that route. I'm just not too
excited about all that work.
Kevin Bonds
Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> I've got about a year old quote for prep, one color & stripe for $4500
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
For me, it would be a pity to split the 601 list off from the 701/801
list. Athough my 601HD has been flying for nearly 5 years, I still keep
up with the Zenith list because, about once or twice each week, I learn
something of importance from other builders/flyers, of both 601 and
701/801 aircraft. Although it is probably futile to say it, the problem
would be cured if people would confine themselves to reasonably brief
posts directly concerned with building and flying Zenith products. Is
this too much to ask?
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Carp/Ottawa
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New lists (humor?) |
Kevin
I'm a 601 builder and I'm glad you 701/801 builders are getting your own
list for exactly the same reason you described. The messages I'm not interested
in are easy yo delete but usually I have to open them (usually) before I
know. Thanks Matt.
Carroll Jernigan
do not archive
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)
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| Subject: | Re: reflective tape for N numbers and tirm |
Kevin
You must have my plane confused with another. Mine isn't polished.
And yes there will be signs on the aircraft when at the paint shop that stress
DO NOT SAND RIVETS.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176407#176407
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| Subject: | Re: follow up question about 601 rear spar hole |
A little waviness in the edge is a cosmetic issue. You just don't want any nicks
that could serve as the starting point for cracks. Even the edges of holes
cut with a flycutter require some treatment to smooth them out.
I would like to add that a flycutter is a very useful tool. I added a couple of
additional inspection holes to each wing and of course had to cut the hole for
the fuel tank filler. There is also the top hole for the nose gear support
which needs to be carefully sized. The flycutter does a real nice job (I turn
it by hand) and a Olfa knife (P800) is a great way to cut straight lines. With
a project like the XL having the right tools can make a big difference both
in time and quality.
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176412#176412
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| Subject: | Re: follow up question about 601 rear spar hole |
John;
The basic desirable finish is one where the cut edge is a continuous smooth sheared
surface. Any scratches or tool marks should be parallel to the edge cut.
Just be sure that when you debur the edge made with the router that you do not
leave scratches running across the edge.
Thanks to all of you who made suggestions regarding the 1 1/2 hole in the rear
spar channel for the aileron rod. I think I will move it up to the edge of the
curve,make slightly smaller and probably add the doubler. I read a comment about
being careful on cuts, to not leave any tiny "cracks" on edges as these could
get larger over time. I don't a "fly cutter", as Zenith suggests, but have
found it very useful to use my roto-zip tool to cut many parts, including holes
and then smoothing out with the curve side of my file. These cuts appear to
be quite smooth to me though not as if they were cut with a precision tool, as
some tiny marks are left by the file. Does anyone have experience in this area?
Is a filed piece that has no visible lines going out quite sufficient or am
I being overly concerned about smoothness? Thanks again, John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176296#176296
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Fibreglass Tail Tip Trim |
Hi,
I'm trimming the edges of the FTTs and I'm not sure how much I can take off. Drawing
6-X-1 shows the tip to tip width of the tail is 2.3m and the tail skeleton
is 2.205m wide without the tips.
I only need to trim 5mm off each FFT to tidy the edges up but the tail measures
2.345m wide with the tips in place as it is. The tail would then be 2.335m wide,
too wide.
To get the 2.3m width I would need to remove 22.5mm off each tip, that will not
work. Any suggestions?
Many thanks
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176424#176424
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fft_197.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Skyshop FWF 701 Coolant Route |
Sorry if this already got posted. I think I "glitched" it.
Hose routing for the Skyshop radiator.
The drawing (7-E-13CZ, bottom), for the 912ULS, shows the hose from the expansion
tank entering the right lower port of the radiator and the hose to the water
pump exiting the upper left of the radiator.
However, the drawing for the 912 (80hp--top of same page) shows the opposite.
The hose from the expansion tank goes to the upper left port of the radiator,
the hose to the water pump exits the lower right of the radiator.
Has anyone with the SKYSHOP FWF and 912 ULS routed the hose from the expansion
tank to the upper left port of the radiator and the line to the water pump from
the lower right port with success ?
It certainly would seem far less cumersome.
I have seen this discussion on previous posts but found no conclusions and I have
emailed Skyshop.
--------
701 kit, anticipating Rotax 912 ULS and amphibious trike floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176434#176434
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| Subject: | re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines |
Good afternoon,
Have been watching eBay and Barnstormers listings for used Rotax 912
(100hp uncertified) engines. Several have been described as having
suffered from prop strikes, others not damaged due to other crash damage
or whatever. Would any of you with experience with this engine offer
any advice on having one of these rebuilt (lower engine price + rebuild
cost) being anymore cost effective over a new engine? This is a new
area for me and I'd really appreciate your counsuld. If there some
specific sites for information about rebuilding vs new could some of you
tell me the locations or URLs? Thanks. John Reinking,
Woodinville, WA PS. I've learned my lesson per speculation and
amateur-engineering. Leave that to the experts and spent my time
trying to learn more about our joining the birds 'up there'. Thanks
again.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fibreglass Tail Tip Trim |
Go ahead and trim them for a good fit and don't worry if it's a
little bit wider than the plans show, it won't hurt anything. The
extra width will just give you slightly more pitch stability. The
early 601HD's didn't have the fiberglas tips, they were added to
improve pitch stability.
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm trimming the edges of the FTTs and I'm not sure how much I can
> take off. Drawing 6-X-1 shows the tip to tip width of the tail is
> 2.3m and the tail skeleton is 2.205m wide without the tips.
>
> I only need to trim 5mm off each FFT to tidy the edges up but the
> tail measures 2.345m wide with the tips in place as it is. The tail
> would then be 2.335m wide, too wide.
>
> To get the 2.3m width I would need to remove 22.5mm off each tip,
> that will not work. Any suggestions?
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines |
John, my experience goes something like this:
1) Dont assume anything about the condition of these motors (they could be
great - they could be real bad, and everything in between)
2) If an engine has been involved in an accident and you do not PERSONALLY
know that the prop never struck anything, then you need to get a crank and
prop shaft runout test. Quite simple but if you aren't going to do this
yourself - any Rotax mechanic can do it for about $100 This simply checks
the runout of both the prop shaft and crankshaft (must remove gearbox) to
see if they were bent (using a typical runout dial indicator). The specs
are published in the Rotax manual. See if the seller will let you have this
done before purchase.
3) If your engine PASSES both runout checks, it may be worth it to purchase
it and then send it to either Lockwood or Leading Edge Airfoils (repair
depot) for final checkout (call them first for price) of the engine.
If it FAILS this runout test - there is a good chance you should walk away -
unless you can do Rotax engine repairs yourself... otherwise you may find
that bottom end repairs (crank) will cost at least $5K... and probably
more... so with current engine prices you have to do the analysis of cost of
repair vs new....also, if the engine was overheated, the heads often warp
and these are really expensive to replace....
4) These damaged engines are perfect to keep as part spares (and are often
snatched up by repair centers) as their 'good' parts are well worth many $$$
for the used part repair market. This makes a lot of sense (and money) for
that purpose.
5) without this or similar analysis, you are simply taking a roll of the
dice.... my last suggestion is to call a repair center (Lockwood, etc) and
discuss this with them... they have no magic ball BUT can give you prices
for teardown/analysis/testing...
It is tempting to pick up an engine that cost $20K for a mere $5K .... but
do your homework first!
Been there, done that, sort of!
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Reinking" <reinkings@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> Have been watching eBay and Barnstormers listings for used Rotax 912
> (100hp uncertified) engines. Several have been described as having
> suffered from prop strikes, others not damaged due to other crash damage
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines |
The main problem in buying a damaged engine and rebuilding is if you don't know
how much damage is there. So, the only safe thing to do is get a cost for a worst
possible case rebuild.
reinkings(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Good afternoon,
>
> Have been watching eBay and Barnstormers listings for used Rotax 912
> (100hp uncertified) engines. Several have been described as having
> suffered from prop strikes, others not damaged due to other crash damage
> or whatever. Would any of you with experience with this engine offer
> any advice on having one of these rebuilt (lower engine price + rebuild
> cost) being anymore cost effective over a new engine? This is a new
> area for me and I'd really appreciate your counsuld. If there some
> specific sites for information about rebuilding vs new could some of you
> tell me the locations or URLs? Thanks. John Reinking,
> Woodinville, WA PS. I've learned my lesson per speculation and
> amateur-engineering. Leave that to the experts and spent my time
> trying to learn more about our joining the birds 'up there'. Thanks
> again.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176451#176451
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines |
Hi John,
I've been watching that one on eBay from Florida also. I asked the seller if
there was a prop strike involved. He admitted to me he honestly didn't know.
He bought the engine from the guy that trashed his plane. Here is what he'd
written back to me:
Sir, I really don't know. I bought this engine and panel 2-years ago 2ND hand
with the idea of buying a CH 701 kit. I was not present during the accident,
nor was the pilot present when I bought the engine. I was told He was landing
in a pasture when the landing gear snagged a power line. Then the plane was snatched
backwards and at this point the pilot (former fighter pilot) killed the
engine. Then the plane nosed over and hung for a second or two then dropped
down about 10 feet and hung again. Then the wire broke and the plane fell down
10 more feet into a plowed firebreak. The pilot unstrapped his harness and stepped
out completely unharmed. So it hit the ground with the engine off. That
said; when I picked up the engine I saw one broken prop blade(3-blade composite).
So I don?t know if hit the wire and broke or if it broke upon hitting the
ground. This engine has the slipper clutch in the gearbox that is supposed to
cushion the crankshaft from prop strike. I hope
this is helpful.
With that being said, I would probably NOT attempt to buy this particular engine
because he knows little or nothing about it. I'm afraid by the time you purchase
it, ship it to you, and possibly have to have it rebuilt, you will be spending
3/4 the cost of a new one. I personally am building the 110 HP Corvair.
I'm expecting to come in way less than 1/2 the price of a new Rotax or Jabiru
too. If you don't want to build it yourself, there are people that do that
sort of thing. If your interested, contact me off the forum and I will give
you several reputable names that do. Hope I've helped you out some. Oh, another
word of caution, I've heard (but not seen for myself) Rotax has a recall going
on with their redrives. I don't know what is involved in it. You would
have to research this more to find out.
Regards,
Larry Hursh
CH601XL (Building from Kits - Just beginning)
(N601LL Reserved)
SkyriderSBN@Yahoo.com
Keep your eyes skyward - always!
__________________________________________________
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Well said Tim! That's why most of us have remained silent. We're still here, and
our prayers are with the pilot and his family. Sometimes, saying nothing, says
more.
Do not archive.
--- On Fri, 4/11/08, Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net> wrote:
> From: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, April 11, 2008, 2:46 PM
> <juhl@avci.net>
>
> gnuse,
>
> Let's face it... people are frightened. We want to
> accept the assurances from Zenith that the design is sound
> but then something happens to stir things up again. What
> you are seeing on this list is the broad scope of how
> humans react to their fears and uncertainty. We certainly
> mean no disrespect to the deceased and feel for his family
> in friends. I suspect that in our imagination we all
> place ourselves in that cockpit during those final moments.
>
> People can be forgiven for wanting answers but wild
> speculation is not helpful. We must be patient and let the
> experts do their jobs. Don't believe for one minute
> that the folks at Zenith don't want answers too.
> Remember that one of the reasons we all chose to build
> Zenith aircraft was because of the great folks running the
> company.
>
> We all need to remember that while at such times it is
> important to be able to talk with others who might
> understand our concerns, at the same time we may be sending
> an unintended message to others who thru the internet happen
> to come across our comments. For myself, if I have said
> anything that offends, I offer my sincere apology.
>
> Tim Juhl
> Do not archive
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Working on fuselage
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176234#176234
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 16
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Yeah, there ya go! Be sure to keep away those interested but haven't
bought a manual yet. Keep away those (like me) who have been following
the list for nearly 2 years, who have been to the rudder workshop, and
have been saving their $$ to move on, while at the same time trying to
learn. There ya go....maybe you can find some MORE ways to make flying
even more directed to the elite!
Hey..Matt..I'm in on the new 701/801 list (if I'm allowed w/o my serial
number) Seperating the lists is the best idea I've heard today.
Tim in Bovey
"Time: 09:15:25 AM PST US
From: "steve" <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
Subject: To Matt D
If you do start a new list for each model Zenith you might want
to
include only people who have a serial number assigned to them.
Example: Steve Weston
# 6-6960
This will keep the experts who dont have a clue AWAY from real
builders.....
SW"
__________________________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | re:Corvair 701 On Kitplanes Blog |
The amazing this is, for those who would like BOTH, they CAN subscribe
to BOTH! Amazing, ain't it?
Tim in Bovey
**Who does not have a serial number yet. Have completed rudder
workshop. Have purchased Corvair Conversion manual for engine. Has N
number reserved. Has yet to offer anyone else any building advice**
"Gus's 701 is featured http://www.kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/
If this was two separate groups you might not have found out
about that.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR"
__________________________________________________
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 701/801 List |
Look at it this way John. You can be on both lists or more if you want.
But for some of us who only want to be on the list that interest us without
having to receive topics that do not interest us, it a good thing. We now
have that option of choosing while people like yourself can still enjoy
both. Take care, LRM www.skyhawg.com.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:17 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701/801 List
>
> For me, it would be a pity to split the 601 list off from the 701/801
> list. Athough my 601HD has been flying for nearly 5 years, I still keep
> up with the Zenith list because, about once or twice each week, I learn
> something of importance from other builders/flyers, of both 601 and
> 701/801 aircraft. Although it is probably futile to say it, the problem
> would be cured if people would confine themselves to reasonably brief
> posts directly concerned with building and flying Zenith products. Is
> this too much to ask?
>
> John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Toronto/Carp/Ottawa
>
>
> --
> Release Date: 4/12/2008 11:32 AM
>
>
Message 19
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Hi List
Anyone know of a good product for cleaning exhaust stains off the bottom of
the plane?
Thanks
John
_________________________________________________________________
Pack up or back up'use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. L
earn how.
hthttp://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Ref
resh_skydrive_packup_042008
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust stains |
John:
For my last plane I used Dove detergent. It seemed to get 98% of the
stains. For the remainder I used whiteboard cleaner. It removed
everything except the paint.
Mike
601XL - Rotax engine in, cowling on
>
> Hi List
> Anyone know of a good product for cleaning exhaust stains off the bottom
> of the plane?
> Thanks
> John
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Pack up or back upuse SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies.
> Learn how.
> hthttp://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_packup_042008
Message 21
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I started a plans built CH701 last year and in the meantime have moved to another
country.
The 6061-T6 sheet material was well packaged and crated by the moving company but
it has taken me a few months to get my workshop setup and I have just opened
the crate to find a considerable amount of water inside. The sheets now have
a lot of surface corrosion.
Should I try and recover the sheet or try for insurance and discard?
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| Subject: | Hole tolerances for my poor drilling?? |
Hey everyone yesterday I was drilling the holes out between the doubler angle and
the rudder spar. Long story short one of my clamps slipped by a fraction and
caused some of my holes 2 of my holes to be 2 mm off or enlongated by the same
amount. Will the rivet still seat right in these holes or is it time to scrap
those pieces?
Thanks,
Andrew
--------
Andrew Lieser
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176499#176499
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