---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/13/08: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:40 AM - Re: Re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines (John Reinking) 2. 01:54 AM - Re: Fibreglass Tail Tip Trim (countzero) 3. 02:09 AM - Re: Hole tolerances for my poor drilling?? (countzero) 4. 02:36 AM - Re: Hole tolerances for my poor drilling?? (Paul Mulwitz) 5. 02:42 AM - Re: WATER DAMAGE (Paul Mulwitz) 6. 02:53 AM - Re: To Matt D (Maarten Versteeg) 7. 04:03 AM - Compass Location (Grant Corriveau) 8. 04:40 AM - Re: exhaust stains (burbby) 9. 05:28 AM - ZENAIR AMPHIB FLOATS =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=A2?= $2,500 (kmccune) 10. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Fibreglass Tail Tip Trim (Bryan Martin) 11. 09:18 AM - Re: Compass Location (Bryan Martin) 12. 09:33 AM - Re: exhaust stains (Juan Vega) 13. 09:36 AM - Re: WATER DAMAGE (Bill Naumuk) 14. 09:39 AM - My engine is a celebrity (Gig Giacona) 15. 10:06 AM - Re: Skyshop FWF 701 Coolant Route (Mark Sherman) 16. 10:28 AM - Re: exhaust stains (george may) 17. 10:44 AM - Re: Compass Location (george may) 18. 10:46 AM - Re: Compass Location (T. Graziano) 19. 11:49 AM - Re: Foul language (Larry Hursh) 20. 12:30 PM - Re: Foul language (steve) 21. 12:51 PM - HDS Baggage Floor Dimensions (Bill Naumuk) 22. 01:20 PM - Sun N Fun Videos (cookwithgas) 23. 01:50 PM - Rudder skin alignment (James E. Lanier) 24. 02:08 PM - Re: My engine is a celebrity (Rick Lindstrom) 25. 03:50 PM - Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Craig Payne) 26. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines (Craig Payne) 27. 05:08 PM - thanks for the BBQ at SNF (Juan Vega) 28. 05:17 PM - Re: Really bad news....S (jreekree) 29. 05:49 PM - Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (kmccune) 30. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines (Larry Hursh) 31. 06:35 PM - 601HDS: Leading Edge Rivet Line Gone Bad (Mitch Hodges) 32. 06:50 PM - Re: My engine is a celebrity (cookwithgas) 33. 06:53 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (jreekree) 34. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Paul Mulwitz) 35. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (ihab.awad@gmail.com) 36. 07:54 PM - Fw: 701 and 601 landing gear (Jerry Shepard) 37. 08:04 PM - Re: HDS Baggage Floor Dimensions (Alex MacKay) 38. 08:06 PM - air gizmo power plug (Tracy) 39. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Rick Lindstrom) 40. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: My engine is a celebrity (Rick Lindstrom) 41. 08:13 PM - Re: HDS Baggage Floor Dimensions () 42. 08:21 PM - Fw: 701 and 601 landing gear (Jerry Shepard) 43. 09:16 PM - Re: Hole tolerances for my poor drilling?? (Art Olechowski) 44. 09:16 PM - Re: air gizmo power plug (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:11 AM PST US From: John Reinking Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines Boy, thanks for the info. I figured this was a not too prudent idea but wanted to get some more experienced input. Am thinking as a result that keeping my ear to the ground here at S43 and posting at some of the local EAA Chapters that there'll be a better opportunity than eBay. Wanted to go the corvair 100hp route but since the wife and I aren't very skinny, looking at the Rotax (sorry, Jab 3300 way out of my current position) would be a good weight alternative not to mention it's regard in the community. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fibreglass Tail Tip Trim From: "countzero" Thanks Byran, it's just that my garage door is only 2.320! > and don't worry if it's a little bit wider than the plans show > The tail would then be 2.335m wide, too wide Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176504#176504 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hole tolerances for my poor drilling?? From: "countzero" Andrew, a new doubler will only cost you $15. If you are drilling pilot holes you may be able to take out the misalignment when you open them up to full size, or even dill out for the next size up if that doesn't clear it out. Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176506#176506 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:34 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hole tolerances for my poor drilling?? At 09:46 PM 4/12/2008, you wrote: >of my holes to be 2 mm off or enlongated by the same amount. Will >the rivet still seat right in these holes or is it time to scrap those pieces? Hi Andrew, All is not lost. You can drill out the holes, with proper alignment, to a larger size and use a larger rivet. Another solution is to add new rivets with sufficient edge spacing on each side of the bad holes and rivet the two new holes or all three. Welcome to the club. Paul XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:30 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: WATER DAMAGE At 09:27 PM 4/12/2008, you wrote: >The sheets now have a lot of surface corrosion. > >Should I try and recover the sheet or try for insurance and discard? If it is just the surface finish you are concerned about then don't worry. That kind of problem is fixed with normal paint preparation. On the other hand, if you have significant pitting or metal erosion then it might be best to scrap the parts and use new metal. Paul XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:11 AM PST US From: Maarten Versteeg Subject: Zenith-List: Re: To Matt D Hello All, I would like to keep the single Zenith list. I am a 601 plans builder, but have learned a lot from 701 discussions since there is a lot of commonality between the 601 and 701 design. And yes, there are differences in the details but the general construction techniques, tools used and procedures are all the same. Regards, Maarten Versteeg 601 XL plans building, still first wing Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:57 AM PST US From: Grant Corriveau Subject: Zenith-List: Compass Location I cannot find a good location for a compass except up high on the canopy. Has anyone successfully mounted a compass up there? I don't really want to drill a hole, but I'm also unsure of how I would glue a mount to the inside of that curved surface. Alternatively, has anyone de-magnetized their instrument panel area successfully? Does this procedure involve any risk to the radios or gyros? Or other equipment? Is it necessary to repeat the de-gaussing from time to time, or is it a once and forever solution? Thanks in advance Grant Corriveau C-GHTF ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:11 AM PST US From: burbby Subject: Re: Zenith-List: exhaust stains 30 years ago when I worked as fuel boy at the local airport the FOB had us use a AMWAY porduct called LOC. This is very good cleaner and when mixed properly with water it cleaned the worst oil and fuel stains from the aircr aft bellys. I dont know about any other more mordern cleaners. All I k now is LOC worked when nothing else would. Keep in mind this was 30 years ago when paint stayed on the plane and cleaners were made to clean. I do nt know if this is still on the market.=0A=0AGary =0A601 XL=0A(N7601 resere ved) =0AMillsap, TX=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: john H =0ATo: "zenith-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:34:44 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List : exhaust stains=0A=0AHi List=0AAnyone know of a good product for cleaning exhaust stains off the bottom of the plane?=0AThanks=0AJohn=0A=0A=0A=0APack up or back up'use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. Learn ==========0A=0A__________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: ZENAIR AMPHIB FLOATS =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=A2?= $2,500 From: "kmccune" These are at barn$tormers, no affiliation. -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176525#176525 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:36 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fibreglass Tail Tip Trim I had to wait until the final assembly phase at the airport to rivet my fiberglas tips on. I built my plane in a 24 foot cargo trailer and the rear door opening was too narrow to get the fuselage through with the tips on. But then, I never had any intention of storing the plane in the trailer after it was finished and flying. If you are planning on storing the plane in your garage after it's finished, you might consider attaching the tips with small screws so that it can be removed. Or you can widen the door. :) On Apr 13, 2008, at 4:50 AM, countzero wrote: > > Thanks Byran, it's just that my garage door is only 2.320! > > >> and don't worry if it's a little bit wider than the plans show > > >> The tail would then be 2.335m wide, too wide > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:15 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Compass Location I had the same problem, I tried mounting a regular aircraft compass in the panel and on top of the panel and could not get it to zero in properly. One day I bought a compass at Meijer for $10 for my Jeep. I followed the instructions and had it zeroed out great stuck to the windshield with the suction cup mounts. Then I decided to try it out in my Zodiac. I stuck it to the canopy with the suction cups about six inches above the panel and was able to get it zeroed in just fine. My regular aircraft compass was a Hamilton vertical card type. It probably would have worked in the same location but I figured it was too heavy and awkward to mount there. So I sold the vertical card compass on eBay and used the 3M double sided adhesive tape that came with the Meijer compass to permanently affix it the canopy. It's been a over year now and I've had no problem with it. The Meijer compass is an Airguide brand similar to an aircraft whiskey compass. It is marked with both the eight cardinal directions and in degrees. It only weighs a couple of ounces. It is mostly installed to comply with the FAA requirement for a magnetic compass, but it works well enough to navigate by if necessary. I usually use the GPS for navigation. > > > > > I cannot find a good location for a compass except up high on the > canopy. Has anyone successfully mounted a compass up there? I > don't really want to drill a hole, but I'm also unsure of how I > would glue a mount to the inside of that curved surface. > > Alternatively, has anyone de-magnetized their instrument panel area > successfully? Does this procedure involve any risk to the radios or > gyros? Or other equipment? Is it necessary to repeat the de-gaussing > from time to time, or is it a once and forever solution? > > Thanks in advance > Grant Corriveau > C-GHTF -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:42 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: exhaust stains the green stuff, from home depot, any degreaser frankly works fine on mine. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: burbby >Sent: Apr 13, 2008 7:36 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: exhaust stains > >30 years ago when I worked as fuel boy at the local airport the FOB had us use a AMWAY porduct called LOC. This is very good cleaner and when mixed properly with water it cleaned the worst oil and fuel stains from the aircraft bellys. I dont know about any other more mordern cleaners. All I know is LOC worked when nothing else would. Keep in mind this was 30 years ago when paint stayed on the plane and cleaners were made to clean. I dont know if this is still on the market. > >Gary >601 XL >(N7601 resereved) >Millsap, TX > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: john H >To: "zenith-list@matronics.com" >Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:34:44 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: exhaust stains > >Hi List >Anyone know of a good product for cleaning exhaust stains off the bottom of the plane? >Thanks >John > > >Pack up or back upuse SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. Learn======== > >__________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:55 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: WATER DAMAGE Kiwi- From painful experience, my advice is to go for an insurance settlement, at least for the skins. I'd make tracings complete with hole locations before letting the insurance company take them. Then you can make duplicates in short order by sticking the tracings on sheet stock and cutting them with an Olfa knife. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "kiwiaviator" Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 12:27 AM Subject: Zenith-List: WATER DAMAGE > > I started a plans built CH701 last year and in the meantime have moved to > another country. > > The 6061-T6 sheet material was well packaged and crated by the moving > company but it has taken me a few months to get my workshop setup and I > have just opened the crate to find a considerable amount of water inside. > The sheets now have a lot of surface corrosion. > > Should I try and recover the sheet or try for insurance and discard? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176496#176496 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: My engine is a celebrity From: "Gig Giacona" The kitplanes blog has a feature on William Wynne's newest mods. The engine on display is the one he has built for me and according to WW will be shipped right after SnF ends. http://www.kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/ -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176553#176553 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:34 AM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Skyshop FWF 701 Coolant Route Roland. I also noticed this on my SkyShops FWF kit. If the radiator was the type with a upper and lower tank it would make a difference, but this radiator is of the side tank type. The coolant runs from one side to the other, rather than from the top to the bottom. So it makes no difference in the way your route the hoses. Mark S. 701/912ULS (STILL) painting ----- Original Message ---- From: Roland Smith Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:05:27 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Skyshop FWF 701 Coolant Route Sorry if this already got posted. I think I "glitched" it. Hose routing for the Skyshop radiator. The drawing (7-E-13CZ, bottom), for the 912ULS, shows the hose from the expansion tank entering the right lower port of the radiator and the hose to the water pump exiting the upper left of the radiator. However, the drawing for the 912 (80hp--top of same page) shows the opposite. The hose from the expansion tank goes to the upper left port of the radiator, the hose to the water pump exits the lower right of the radiator. Has anyone with the SKYSHOP FWF and 912 ULS routed the hose from the expansion tank to the upper left port of the radiator and the line to the water pump from the lower right port with success ? It certainly would seem far less cumersome. I have seen this discussion on previous posts but found no conclusions and I have emailed Skyshop. -------- 701 kit, anticipating Rotax 912 ULS and amphibious trike floats Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176434#176434 __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:43 AM PST US From: george may Subject: RE: Zenith-List: exhaust stains John-- I've used Simple Green (the airplane product not th gneral product) for the last couple of years and it has easily removed gas, grease/oil and ehau st stains George May 601XL 912s From: professor71@hotmail.comTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-L ist: exhaust stainsDate: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:34:44 -0400 Hi ListAnyone know of a good product for cleaning exhaust stains off the bo ttom of the plane?ThanksJohn Pack up or back up'use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. L earn how. _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM _WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:11 AM PST US From: george may Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Compass Location Grant-- Due to interference from my GPS I also had to move the compass from the top of the panel to the canopy. I used double sided foam tape(pads). I did find after the plane sat for five days in the sun at Oshkosh that the comp ass ,due to its weight peeled away from the tape, however, the tape remaine d on the canopy. I subsequently found that if you add some instant glue(ZAP etc) under the compass side of the pad it gives enough strength to not pee l away in the heat of the summer. Good luck George May 601XL 912s> From: grant.corriveau@telus.net> Subject: Zenith-List: Compass Location> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 04:00:32 -0700> To: zenith-list@matronics. telus.net>> > I cannot find a good location for a compass except up high on the > canopy. Has anyone successfully mounted a compass up there? I don't > really want to drill a hole, but I'm also unsure of how I would glue > a mount to the inside of that curved surface.> > Alternatively, has anyone de -magnetized their instrument panel area > successfully? Does this procedure involve any risk to the radios or > gyros? Or other equipment? Is it neces sary to repeat the de-gaussing > from time to time, or is it a once and for ========================> _ =====================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_getintouch_042008 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:25 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Compass Location Grant, I mounted my vertical card compass on top of the instrument panel, centerline. I used the two small bar magnets found in the base of GPS antennas and placed them at the base of the compass on the top panel skin on both sides. They worked to "neutralize" the mag flux in the area of the compass. I was able to swing the compass ok. Prior to trying the small bar magnets (I used aluminum tape to cover them and painted over the tape), there was no way I could swing the compass to agree on all cardinal headings. Panel with compass is shown on the yellow airplane at http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic05/493tg3.jpg Tony Graziano XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 364 hrs ----------- Subject: Re: Compass Location From: Bryan Martin (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) Date: Sun Apr 13 - 9:18 AM I had the same problem, I tried mounting a regular aircraft compass in the panel and on top of the panel and could not get it to zero in properly. One day I bought a compass at Meijer for $10 for my Jeep. I followed the instructions and had it zeroed out great stuck to the windshield with the suction cup mounts. Then I decided to try it out in my Zodiac. I stuck it to the canopy with the suction cups about six inches above the panel and was able to get it zeroed in just fine. My regular aircraft compass was a Hamilton vertical card type. It probably would have worked in the same location but I figured it was too heavy and awkward to mount there. So I sold the vertical card compass on eBay and used the 3M double sided adhesive tape that came with the Meijer compass to permanently affix it the canopy. It's been a over year now and I've had no problem with it. The Meijer compass is an Airguide brand similar to an aircraft whiskey compass. It is marked with both the eight cardinal directions and in degrees. It only weighs a couple of ounces. It is mostly installed to comply with the FAA requirement for a magnetic compass, but it works well enough to navigate by if necessary. I usually use the GPS for navigation. > > > > > I cannot find a good location for a compass except up high on the > canopy. Has anyone successfully mounted a compass up there? I > don't really want to drill a hole, but I'm also unsure of how I > would glue a mount to the inside of that curved surface. > > Alternatively, has anyone de-magnetized their instrument panel area > successfully? Does this procedure involve any risk to the radios or > gyros? Or other equipment? Is it necessary to repeat the de-gaussing > from time to time, or is it a once and forever solution? > > Thanks in advance > Grant Corriveau > C-GHTF -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:23 AM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Foul language I've also blocked all his communications. It's uncalled for and NOT wanted in this house - never again. Larry Hursh CH601XL (Building from Kits - Just beginning) (N601LL Reserved) SkyriderSBN@Yahoo.com Keep your eyes skyward - always! __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:08 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Foul language ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Hursh To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Foul language ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:16 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: HDS Baggage Floor Dimensions All- Triple checking everything before closing in the rear fuse. Plans say the front edge of 6-F-13-1 is supposed to be 1025mm. That's freaking impossible!! Mine measures 1110mm. You sweat 2mm and find you could be off 3-3/8"?!Could someone check and see what they have? Thanks. do not archive Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Sun N Fun Videos From: "cookwithgas" Hi guys: I had a great time at Sun N Fun and even got to visit with a few of you at the BBQ and around the show. I made a few videos of my visit to sunny Florida (via commercial airline) here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivqDikXfbWk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AEF0znUtKs I got home and went right to work making some small improvements to my airplane that I had been meaning to do and hopefully will be back in the air next weekend! Take care, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com 601XL Finished & Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176586#176586 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:30 PM PST US From: "James E. Lanier" Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder skin alignment Did any of you have trouble lining this up? It is difficult to get the courage to drill the first hole :) Jim ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:52 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: My engine is a celebrity Hey, Gig. That's YOUR beautiful engine William had on display?! I'm jealous. WAY jealous. Wanna trade? Rick Lindstrom -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: Apr 13, 2008 12:35 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: My engine is a celebrity > > >The kitplanes blog has a feature on William Wynne's newest mods. The engine on display is the one he has built for me and according to WW will be shipped right after SnF ends. > >http://www.kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/ > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176553#176553 > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:32 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. Full doc here: http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/ 29015.DOC AVweb has a short video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU14MNLBlqU Personally for me the biggest proposed change is removal of the "10,000 above MSL" restriction (#9). My home field (36U) is at 6300 ft and we have plenty of peaks over 10,000 ft. Summary: 1. Replace sport pilot privileges with aircraft category and class ratings on all pilot certificates. 2. Replace sport pilot flight instructor privileges with aircraft category ratings on all flight instructor certificates. 3. Remove current provisions for the conduct of proficiency checks by flight instructors and include provisions for the issuance of category and class ratings by designated pilot examiners. 4. Place all requirements for flight instructors under a single subpart (subpart H) of part 61. 5. Require 1 hour of flight training on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments for student pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate to operate an airplane with a maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) greater than 87 knots calibrated airspeed (CAS) and sport pilots operating airplanes with a VH greater than 87 knots CAS. 6. Remove the requirement for persons exercising sport pilot privileges and flight instructors with a sport pilot rating to carry their logbooks while in flight. 7. Remove the requirement that persons exercising sport pilot privileges have an aircraft make-and-model endorsement to operate a specific set of aircraft while adding provisions for endorsements for the operation of powered parachutes with elliptical wings and aircraft with a VH less than or equal to 87 knots CAS. 8. Remove the requirement for all flight instructors to log at least 5 hours of flight time in a make and model of light-sport aircraft before providing training in any aircraft from the same set of aircraft in which that training is given. 9. Permit persons exercising sport pilot privileges and the privileges of a student pilot seeking a sport pilot certificate to fly up to an altitude of not more than 10,000 feet mean sea level (MSL) or 2,000 feet above ground level (AGL), whichever is higher. 10. Permit private pilots to receive compensation for production flight testing of powered parachutes and weight-shift-control aircraft intended for certification in the light-sport category under 21.190. 11. Revise student sport pilot solo cross-country navigation and communication flight training requirements. 12. Clarify cross-country distance requirements for private pilots seeking to operate weight-shift-control aircraft. 13. Revise aeronautical experience requirements at towered airports for persons seeking to operate a powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft as a private pilot. 14. Remove the requirement for pilots with only a powered parachute or a weight-shift-control aircraft rating to take a knowledge test for an additional rating at the same certificate level. 15. Revise the amount of hours of flight training an applicant for a sport pilot certificate must log within 60 days prior to taking the practical test. 16. Remove expired ultralight transition provisions and limit the use of aeronautical experience obtained in ultralight vehicles. 17. Add a requirement for student pilots to obtain endorsements identical to those proposed for sport pilots in 61.324 and 61.327. 18. Clarify that an authorized instructor must be in a powered parachute when providing flight instruction to a student pilot 19. Remove the requirement for aircraft certificated as experimental aircraft in the light-sport category to comply with the applicable maintenance and preventive maintenance requirements of part 43 when those aircraft have been previously issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category. 20. Require aircraft owners or operators to retain a record of the current status of applicable safety directives for special light-sport aircraft. 21. Provide for the use of aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category in training courses approved under part 141. 22. Revise the minimum safe-altitude requirements for powered parachutes and weight-shift-control aircraft. --Craig ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:14 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines > "sorry, Jab 3300 way out of my current position" I'm confused, doesn't a new Rotax cost as much or more than a Jabiru 3300? -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Reinking Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:36 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines Boy, thanks for the info. I figured this was a not too prudent idea but wanted to get some more experienced input. Am thinking as a result that keeping my ear to the ground here at S43 and posting at some of the local EAA Chapters that there'll be a better opportunity than eBay. Wanted to go the corvair 100hp route but since the wife and I aren't very skinny, looking at the Rotax (sorry, Jab 3300 way out of my current position) would be a good weight alternative not to mention it's regard in the community. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:27 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Zenith-List: thanks for the BBQ at SNF It was great meeting all the builders this past week at SNF BBQ. the food and company was excellent! Hope everyone enjoyed the event. Thanks to the cooks as well. To al that enjoyed a few Bews with me, enjoyed the copmany, that goes for Caleb, Sebastian, Mark, Russ, et all. Kindest regards, JUan Vega ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S From: "jreekree" This is my first post to the Zenith list. I'm on the RV8 list. I've been reading the speculation and just plain wrong stuff about Bob's accident as well as the thoughtful replies of "let's wait and see". Stuff like why would anybody change the N-Numbers to "I know this to be true because I heard it from the Zenith booth" Bob was my hangar mate and friend. As had been stated he was meticulous to the enth degree. He researched his plane and engine more that anyone I've been associated with in my 40 years and 24000 hours of flying. He wanted to know it all about his plane and aviation. He went over every square inch of his plane. He told me about trouble he had heard of with the wings. He researched service bulletins and engine AD's. He was quickly becoming a guru on the engine. I was flying with him to sun-n-fun the day of the accident. We stopped and fueled up 60 miles north of KLAL. He loaded his plane carefully and knew what it weighed. He had flow well over a hundred hours in it since he bought it in October. (NOT 2 months ago) I spoke with the NTSB the day after the crash and they wanted to know about any MTC he may have performed, specifically if he had removed the wings or done any MTC on them. I guaranteed them he had not. I won't speculate on the cause. Leave that to the NTSB. They will do their job and ours is not to fuel the fire with rumors and innuendo's. I do know however that Bob was a good and conscientious pilot that did everything possible to maintain and keep him and his plane safe. I write this to try to get people to let the investigation run it's course and not jump to conclusions about either the plane or the pilot. Fly safe. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176624#176624 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. From: "kmccune" This one kinda stands out, like they were giving something away and had to get something back :) I hope this does not have a required additional instruments clause piggy backed. 5. Require 1 hour of flight training on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments for student pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate to operate an airplane with a maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) greater than 87 knots calibrated airspeed (CAS) and sport pilots operating airplanes with a VH greater than 87 knots CAS. -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176631#176631 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:10 PM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines Hey Craig. I took this information straight off of the Jabiru USA website: Jabiru Engine Sale! 3300 Regular price is $18,400 Sale Price $16,400 2200 Regular Price is $13,900 Sale Price $12,900 Jabiru Australia has reduced the price of the engines to its dealers for a one time sale that ends April 15th! This is the first sale for Jabiru in 7 years! Engine order payment will be due by April 15th and engine deliveries will be at the end of June. Call for all the details! Craig Payne wrote: > "sorry, Jab 3300 way out of my current position" I'm confused, doesn't a new Rotax cost as much or more than a Jabiru 3300? -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Reinking Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:36 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: ROTAX 912 Used Engines Boy, thanks for the info. I figured this was a not too prudent idea but wanted to get some more experienced input. Am thinking as a result that keeping my ear to the ground here at S43 and posting at some of the local EAA Chapters that there'll be a better opportunity than eBay. Wanted to go the corvair 100hp route but since the wife and I aren't very skinny, looking at the Rotax (sorry, Jab 3300 way out of my current position) would be a good weight alternative not to mention it's regard in the community. Larry Hursh CH601XL (Building from Kits - Just beginning) (N601LL Reserved) SkyriderSBN@Yahoo.com Keep your eyes skyward - always! __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:03 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS: Leading Edge Rivet Line Gone Bad From: "Mitch Hodges" When marking the rivet line for nose rib S8 on the top of the left O/B wing, I apparently missed the mark. The line starts correctly at the spar, but at the third rivet position has moved completely off the rib. Of course, I noticed this after drilling the pilot holes! Is it acceptable to drill the correct line, then backfill these holes with rivets and perhaps a backplate, or even fill them when painting? Of course, these are over the LE tank so I'll have to watch the clearance there. I really hate to have to get a completely new LE skin, given it is already attached on the bottom, and all the other ribs are correct. I've got a note into Zenith about this, but I'm sure it will be few days before I get an answer because of SnF. Anyone else run into the same issue, and had a brilliant solution? Mitch Hodges -------- N601MH (Zenith 601HDS) Wings Under Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176642#176642 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: My engine is a celebrity From: "cookwithgas" Gig: I looked at it closely and it truly is a beautiful thing. I'm green with envy! I was noticing all the cool new parts - I have many of the old parts and the engine runs great. Yours will not only run great but look great too! I took several closeup photos of the engine - if you want me to send them over I 'll send them off-line. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176646#176646 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash From: "jreekree" I posted this on another "Really Bad News" site but copied it here also. This is my first post to the Zenith list. I'm on the RV8 list. I've been reading the speculation and just plain wrong stuff about Bob's accident as well as the thoughtful replies of "let's wait and see". Stuff like why would anybody change the N-Numbers to "I know this to be true because I heard it from the Zenith booth" Bob was my hangar mate and friend. As had been stated he was meticulous to the enth degree. He researched his plane and engine more that anyone I've been associated with in my 40 years and 24000 hours of flying. He wanted to know it all about his plane and aviation. He went over every square inch of his plane. He told me about trouble he had heard of with the wings. He researched service bulletins and engine AD's. He was quickly becoming a guru on the engine. I was flying with him to sun-n-fun the day of the accident. We stopped and fueled up 60 miles north of KLAL. He loaded his plane carefully and knew what it weighed. He had flow well over a hundred hours in it since he bought it in October. (NOT 2 months ago) I spoke with the NTSB the day after the crash and they wanted to know about any MTC he may have performed, specifically if he had removed the wings or done any MTC on them. I guaranteed them he had not. I won't speculate on the cause. Leave that to the NTSB. They will do their job and ours is not to fuel the fire with rumors and innuendo's. I do know however that Bob was a good and conscientious pilot that did everything possible to maintain and keep him and his plane safe. I write this to try to get people to let the investigation run it's course and not jump to conclusions about either the plane or the pilot. Fly safe. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176647#176647 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:47 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. Actually, this looks like a pretty good compromise to me. They are letting the Cub and Champ fliers along with the PPC and Trike guys get by without any instrument training, but if a Sport Pilot wants to fly planes with the speed performance of a C-172 or Zodiac then he has to have a minuscule amount of instrument training. It isn't enough to give them the skill to handle inadvertent IMC, but it is enough to warn them that instrument flying requires special skills. We should remember this only applies to real Sport Pilots. Private Pilots who are limiting themselves to Sport Pilot privileges already need to know how to perform minimal instrument flight. I hope most of the ones who have been flying for years can do a lot more than that on instruments. Even in 1971 when I got my Private, you didn't need to do any night flying but my examiner made me spend a considerable amount of time on my check ride under the hood. I am not worried about new requirements for at least one gyro instrument on LSA. I wouldn't fly a plane without at least that much anyway. I am glad they addressed the silly 10,000 MSL issue. I was planning on breaking that one anyway and citing the "PIC privilege to violate any rule if necessary for the safety of flight" if challenged. Out West, it makes a lot more sense to bust the 10,000 foot rule than fly into mountains. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 05:46 PM 4/13/2008, you wrote: >This one kinda stands out, like they were giving something away and >had to get something back :) I hope this does not have a required >additional instruments clause piggy backed. > > >5. Require 1 hour of flight training on the control and maneuvering of an >airplane solely by reference to instruments for student pilots seeking a >sport pilot certificate to operate an airplane with a maximum airspeed in >level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) greater than 87 knots >calibrated airspeed (CAS) and sport pilots operating airplanes with a VH >greater than 87 knots CAS. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:18 PM PST US From: ihab.awad@gmail.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > Actually, this looks like a pretty good compromise to me. They are letting > the Cub and Champ fliers along with the PPC and Trike guys get by without > any instrument training, but if a Sport Pilot wants to fly planes with the > speed performance of a C-172 or Zodiac then he has to have a minuscule > amount of instrument training. There is another, similarly optimistic way to look at it. This is creeping morally closer to the idea that someone could exercise responsibilities similar to those of a regular Private Pilot without a Class 3 medical. Let's see.... Ihab -- Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:39 PM PST US From: "Jerry Shepard" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: 701 and 601 landing gear ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Shepard Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:36 PM Subject: 701 and 601 landing gear I bent my own 701 landing gear with a 20 ton jack and a die set I made. My son is building a 601 and we are thinking of making the landing gear out of 3/4"x 6" 6061 T6. InAs much as the 701's gear only calls for about 3-1/4" X 3/4 inch material for a 1100# gross, We cannot understand why Zenith makes the 601 gear so heavy at 7-3/4 inches wide. Any information would be considered. PS, we are renegades. I fly a 701 registered at 1320" with a 30' wing span and 125 HP Honda up front. I'm ready to try no slats and VG's ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:01 PM PST US From: Alex MacKay Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HDS Baggage Floor Dimensions Hi Bill Mine is 1125mm. With this width, the cabin width came to 44" as expected. When I was doing this, I assumed that Zenith meant to write 1125mm. Best regards Alex MacKay 601HDS, working on canopy and waiting for delivery of Jabiru 3300. On Sun, 13 Apr 2008, Bill Naumuk wrote: > All- > Triple checking everything before closing in the rear fuse. Plans say > the front edge of 6-F-13-1 is supposed to be 1025mm. That's freaking > impossible!! Mine measures 1110mm. You sweat 2mm and find you could be > off 3-3/8"?!Could someone check and see what they have? > Thanks. > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa. > HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:43 PM PST US From: Tracy Subject: Zenith-List: air gizmo power plug anyone with a air gizmo with a garmin,what did you use for power plug to the garmin? i dont know what to use to get the power to it without running cables in front thanks everone for the throttle info . Tracy ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:43 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash Hi, Jerry. Thanks for your thoughtful and informative post, it sheds light on many areas concerning the accident. I'm very sorry for your loss, I do know how hard it is when a good friend is suddenly gone in a heartbeat. The pain felt by those left behind is palpable with every such post to this list. I am the guy that reported what was being said at the Zenith booth shortly after we heard of the crash. I didn't say that "it was true because it came from the Zenith booth". I said that this is what was being put forward. Obviously it was in error given your personal experience. However, it may have been the best information available at that time, which is always subject to correction as the facts come in. I've also been in the "wait and see" crowd concerning the speculation around airframe failures. As a fellow Zodiac 601 builder and pilot, I've got the same vested interest in finding out the reasons behind any event that could affect the balance of the fleet. Nobody wishes to endure any more needless losses of man and machine. I'm in complete agreement that we should let the investigation run its course before jumping to conclusions. However, in the absence of hard facts, there will also be conflicting reports concerning these kind of tragedies until the dust settles and the truth wins out. Please understand that no one wants to be party to wild speculation. On the other hand, information that appears to come from a knowledgable and reliable source should be shared. And, sometimes these sources will be in error. The best we can do is keep an open mind until all the facts come in, and this always takes more time than we'd like. Thanks again for setting us straight. Rick Lindstrom N42KP -----Original Message----- >From: jreekree >Sent: Apr 13, 2008 9:50 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash > > >I posted this on another "Really Bad News" site but copied it here also. > >This is my first post to the Zenith list. I'm on the RV8 list. >I've been reading the speculation and just plain wrong stuff about Bob's accident as well as the thoughtful replies of "let's wait and see". Stuff like why would anybody change the N-Numbers to "I know this to be true because I heard it from the Zenith booth" >Bob was my hangar mate and friend. As had been stated he was meticulous to the enth degree. He researched his plane and engine more that anyone I've been associated with in my 40 years and 24000 hours of flying. He wanted to know it all about his plane and aviation. He went over every square inch of his plane. He told me about trouble he had heard of with the wings. He researched service bulletins and engine AD's. He was quickly becoming a guru on the engine. >I was flying with him to sun-n-fun the day of the accident. We stopped and fueled up 60 miles north of KLAL. He loaded his plane carefully and knew what it weighed. He had flow well over a hundred hours in it since he bought it in October. (NOT 2 months ago) >I spoke with the NTSB the day after the crash and they wanted to know about any MTC he may have performed, specifically if he had removed the wings or done any MTC on them. I guaranteed them he had not. >I won't speculate on the cause. Leave that to the NTSB. They will do their job and ours is not to fuel the fire with rumors and innuendo's. >I do know however that Bob was a good and conscientious pilot that did everything possible to maintain and keep him and his plane safe. >I write this to try to get people to let the investigation run it's course and not jump to conclusions about either the plane or the pilot. >Fly safe. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176647#176647 > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:39 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: My engine is a celebrity Just so you know, you can click on the photos on the KITPLANES blog to get the high resolution versions. The shots on the blog are much smaller and low-res by comparison. Rick Lindstrom -----Original Message----- >From: cookwithgas >Sent: Apr 13, 2008 9:47 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: My engine is a celebrity > > >Gig: > >I looked at it closely and it truly is a beautiful thing. I'm green with envy! I was noticing all the cool new parts - I have many of the old parts and the engine runs great. Yours will not only run great but look great too! > >I took several closeup photos of the engine - if you want me to send them over I 'll send them off-line. > >Scott Laughlin >www.cooknwithgas.com > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176646#176646 > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:58 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HDS Baggage Floor Dimensions Bill, I just measured mine and it is 1120mm. I have 2 sets of plans and my oldest just said to cut it to fit with no dimensions given. The newest set of plans has the 1025mm dimension that you mention. I believe the 1025mm dimension is a mistake. This dimension will vary a little bit due to the top longerons being bent by the builder himself. Jerry 601 HDS 912 S ---- Bill Naumuk wrote: > All- > Triple checking everything before closing in the rear fuse. Plans say the front edge of 6-F-13-1 is supposed to be 1025mm. That's freaking impossible!! Mine measures 1110mm. You sweat 2mm and find you could be off 3-3/8"?!Could someone check and see what they have? > Thanks. > do not archive > Bill Naumuk > Townville, Pa. > HDS Fuse/Corvair ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:09 PM PST US From: "Jerry Shepard" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: 701 and 601 landing gear ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Shepard Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:49 PM Subject: Fw: 701 and 601 landing gear ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Shepard Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:36 PM Subject: 701 and 601 landing gear I bent my own 701 landing gear with a 20 ton jack and a die set I made. My son is building a 601 and we are thinking of making the landing gear out of 3/4"x 6" 6061 T6. InAs much as the 701's gear only calls for about 3-1/4" X 3/4 inch material for a 1100# gross, We cannot understand why Zenith makes the 601 gear so heavy at 7-3/4 inches wide. Any information would be considered. PS, we are renegades. I fly a 701 registered at 1320" with a 30' wing span and 125 HP Honda up front. I'm ready to try no slats and VG's ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:15 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hole tolerances for my poor drilling?? Andrew, Can you up size the rivets to AN5's? do not archive Art --- Andrewlieser wrote: > > Hey everyone yesterday I was drilling the holes out between the doubler angle and the rudder > spar. Long story short one of my clamps slipped by a fraction and caused some of my holes 2 of > my holes to be 2 mm off or enlongated by the same amount. Will the rivet still seat right in > these holes or is it time to scrap those pieces? > > Thanks, > Andrew > > -------- > Andrew Lieser > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176499#176499 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:15 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: air gizmo power plug My 296 fits fine with the cable shown in the attached picture. This is the older "396" dock before Air Gizmos redesigned it to accommodate the extra cable on the 496. The p/n of the cable I use is 010-10513-00. It ends in bare wires. Info here: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=1083 -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: air gizmo power plug anyone with a air gizmo with a garmin,what did you use for power plug to the garmin? i dont know what to use to get the power to it without running cables in front thanks everone for the throttle info . Tracy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.