---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/15/08: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:54 AM - Re: Project for sale (jhines) 2. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Project for sale (japhillipsga@aol.com) 3. 07:46 AM - Re: Project for sale (Gig Giacona) 4. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Project for sale (japhillipsga@aol.com) 5. 12:08 PM - AOA ports location (pavel569) 6. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: Project for sale (Rick Lindstrom) 7. 12:52 PM - Re: AOA ports location (Rick Lindstrom) 8. 12:52 PM - Re: AOA ports location (Craig Payne) 9. 01:03 PM - Re: Project for sale (Gig Giacona) 10. 01:08 PM - Re: stirring the pot (John Bolding) 11. 01:12 PM - Re: AOA ports location (pavel569) 12. 01:23 PM - Re: AOA ports location (lwinger) 13. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: Project for sale (Rick Lindstrom) 14. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: stirring the pot (Rick Lindstrom) 15. 02:06 PM - Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! (Zed Smith) 16. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Project for sale (japhillipsga@aol.com) 17. 02:24 PM - Re: Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! (steve) 18. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Paul Mulwitz) 19. 02:47 PM - Re: Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! (Leo Gates) 20. 02:51 PM - Re: Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! (John Bolding) 21. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (steve) 22. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Jay Maynard) 23. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 24. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Jay Maynard) 25. 04:28 PM - Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (kmccune) 26. 04:31 PM - Re: Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! (kmccune) 27. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (steve) 28. 05:06 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Paul Mulwitz) 29. 05:32 PM - Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Andrewlieser) 30. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Jay Maynard) 31. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (steve) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale From: "jhines" Guys, I have had a bunch of people ask if I would sell the engine mount by its self. I would prefer to sell if all together. If I can't i may consider it and I will let you all know. Thanks, John -------- John Hines Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176940#176940 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale From: japhillipsga@aol.com Guys and John, I have a new engine mount for a XL I can let go. Fits a Jab 3300, has been primed and never mounted. Price will be good. Let me know via e-mail. Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: jhines Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 9:50 am Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale Guys, I have had a bunch of people ask if I would sell the engine mount by its self. I would prefer to sell if all together. If I can't i may consider it and I will let you all know. Thanks, John -------- John Hines Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176940#176940 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:18 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale From: "Gig Giacona" Bill, anybody can get a Jab engine mount. To get a Corvair one takes skill and/or patience. :) japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: > Guys and John, I have a new engine mount for a XL I can let go. Fits a Jab 3300, has been primed and never mounted. Price will be good. Let me know via e-mail. Bill of Georgia > > > -- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176950#176950 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:34:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale From: japhillipsga@aol.com Gig, you are probably correct, but who would really want one? I once had a Corvair in 1968. It was green and I abandoned it on the side of the road in Tennessee. I suppose it's still there? I certainly would never consider flying behind one and as poorly as they perform I don't ever expect?to. Best regards, Bill of Georgia? -----Original Message----- From: Gig Giacona Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:42 am Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale Bill, anybody can get a Jab engine mount. To get a Corvair one takes skill and/or patience. :) japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: > Guys and John, I have a new engine mount for a XL I can let go. Fits a Jab 3300, has been primed and never mounted. Price will be good. Let me know via e-mail. Bill of Georgia > > > -- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176950#176950 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: AOA ports location From: "pavel569" I'm working on 601XL right wing now and I'd like to know if anyone of you have installed AOA ports directly into the wing, i.e. Advanced Flight Systems AOA Instrument. I'm going to use Stratomaster Enigma or Voyager as my primary flight instrument and it has a AOA ports input, so only thing I need to do is to drill holes in the wing and connect them to the Stratomaster. I've looked for any advice for where they should be located over the net but found nothing. AFS website doesn't have specific ports location for the Zodiac. Any help will be appreciated. -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Tail, flaps, ailerons done, right wing on the table .... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177012#177012 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:15 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale Holy Moley Bill!! The Corvair engine sitting in your old green car and what ends up mounted to the firewall are two different things - AFTER the engine gets a case-up rebuild with a long list of modifications. In fact, I was so impressed with the engine in its aviation form that I picked the engine FIRST, and THEN went looking for an airframe to stick behind it. Currently there's a whole mess of 'em flyin' around in all sorts of airframes. And the development of refinements keeps going on and on. Take a gander at kitplanes.com, go to the blog, and see for yourself just how purty these little powerplants have become. "...but who would really want one?" Your puttin' us on, right? Rick Lindstrom Zenvair 601 XL -----Original Message----- >From: japhillipsga@aol.com >Sent: Apr 15, 2008 11:25 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale > >Gig, you are probably correct, but who would really want one? I once had a Corvair in 1968. It was green and I abandoned it on the side of the road in Tennessee. I suppose it's still there? I certainly would never consider flying behind one and as poorly as they perform I don't ever expect?to. Best regards, Bill of Georgia? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:42 am >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale > > > >Bill, anybody can get a Jab engine mount. To get a Corvair one takes skill >and/or patience. > >:) > > >japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: >> Guys and John, I have a new engine mount for a XL I can let go. Fits a Jab >3300, has been primed and never mounted. Price will be good. Let me know via >e-mail. Bill of Georgia >> >> >> -- > > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176950#176950 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:04 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: AOA ports location Hi, Pavel. To quote from the original AOA installation manual from 1998, inventor Jim Frantz wrote: "There are some places where pressure ports should not be located...such as in line with the propeller wash, too close to the wing tip, and in areas too difficult to access. Generally 10 to 25% MAC and not too close to the wing tip will work well." On Jim's Lancair, I recall seeing the ports about a foot in from the edge of the wingtip, and about the same distance back from the leading edge. As long as you get good differential pressures between the top and bottom skins that vary linearly with the wing's angle of attack, you'll be OK. Rick Lindstrom -----Original Message----- >From: pavel569 >Sent: Apr 15, 2008 12:05 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: AOA ports location > > >I'm working on 601XL right wing now and I'd like to know if anyone of you have installed AOA ports directly into the wing, i.e. Advanced Flight Systems AOA Instrument. I'm going to use Stratomaster Enigma or Voyager as my primary flight instrument and it has a AOA ports input, so only thing I need to do is to drill holes in the wing and connect them to the Stratomaster. I've looked for any advice for where they should be located over the net but found nothing. AFS website doesn't have specific ports location for the Zodiac. Any help will be appreciated. > >-------- >Pavel >CA >Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) >Tail, flaps, ailerons done, right wing on the table .... > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177012#177012 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:22 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: AOA ports location Rainier (head of MGL) wrote this on the Stratomaster Users Yahoo list: "Positioning the ports is not hugely critical. A good rule of thumb would be perhaps 50% between leading edge and maximum profile thickness or perhaps a bit closer to the LE. It really is not very critical." AFS's install manual gives some guidance on cord distance. I have embedded 5 pictures of the right wing of Mike Sigman's 601XL (N7092N). Basically he placed the probes forward (but close to) the spar and outside (but close to) the outmost nose rib. Just don't forget to offset the upper and lower probes so they don't hit when you close the wing J. My reading indicates that the placement is not extremely critical and that the calibration can accommodated a range of placements. If the pictures don't make it through let me know and I'll mail them to you direct. BTW: it is a good idea to provide a way to drain the upper port. If you look at the AFS documents you can see how they do this. you can build your own out of off-the-shelf parts: two flush static ports, some tubing and "T"s and a fuel tank drain. -- Craig IMG_0938 IMG_0937 IMG_0930 IMG_0931 IMG_0932 -- Craig ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:18 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale From: "Gig Giacona" Bill, Rick said it better than I but I will add.... Wanna race? :) japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: > Gig, you are probably correct, but who would really want one? I once had a Corvair in 1968. It was green and I abandoned it on the side of the road in Tennessee. I suppose it's still there? I certainly would never consider flying behind one and as poorly as they perform I don't ever expect to. Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > -- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177028#177028 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:52 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: stirring the pot It's this type of statement I won't miss when the 701/801 list arrives. Hurry up Matt !! John ----- Original Message ----- From: japhillipsga@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale Gig, you are probably correct, but who would really want one? I once had a Corvair in 1968. It was green and I abandoned it on the side of the road in Tennessee. I suppose it's still there? I certainly would never consider flying behind one and as poorly as they perform I don't ever expect to. Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:31 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AOA ports location From: "pavel569" Rick, Craig thanks a lot. I know the placement is not critical but why to try something that was done already, right? Craig, I'm planning to install a drain valve for the upper port as you recommend. Thanks again. -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Tail, flaps, ailerons done, right wing on the table .... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177032#177032 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AOA ports location From: "lwinger" I am also using the AFS ports with the MGL Avionics EFIS. Here is what I wrote in my weblog at the time: In order to place my AOA (Angle of Attack) ports, I needed to determine the wing chord. That is the front-to-back distance from the leading edge to the very back tip of the aileron or flap (depending on where you are measuring). After you determine the chord, you then figure 15% to 40% of that, and you have the range for port placement. In my case, I measured the chord about 150mm inboard of RR9 where it is 1470mm, placing the 15% location at 220mm and the 40% at 588mm. Given that range, I selected 255mm (17.3%) back from the leading edge, which is about 90mm ahead of the main spar rivet line (on the top of the wing). This allows room for the tubing coming from the upper port to have a short section that goes uphill, as specified in the plans. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair from scratch Control surfaces and wings complete. Bottom rear fuselage and firewall done Ready for wing jig alignment www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177034#177034 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:26 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale Not on your tintype, Gig! At least not until I get some gold parts, too! Everyone knows they go faster. rick -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: Apr 15, 2008 12:59 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale > > >Bill, Rick said it better than I but I will add.... > >Wanna race? :) > > >japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: >> Gig, you are probably correct, but who would really want one? I once had a Corvair in 1968. It was green and I abandoned it on the side of the road in Tennessee. I suppose it's still there? I certainly would never consider flying behind one and as poorly as they perform I don't ever expect to. Best regards, Bill of Georgia >> >> >> -- > > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177028#177028 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:27 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: stirring the pot Ah, but think of it as an education opportunity... and you'll probable see such comments no matter what list you're on! rick -----Original Message----- >From: John Bolding >Sent: Apr 15, 2008 1:04 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: stirring the pot > >It's this type of statement I won't miss when the 701/801 list arrives. Hurry up Matt !! >John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: japhillipsga@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 1:25 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale > > > Gig, you are probably correct, but who would really want one? I once had a Corvair in 1968. It was green and I abandoned it on the side of the road in Tennessee. I suppose it's still there? I certainly would never consider flying behind one and as poorly as they perform I don't ever expect to. Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:50 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! do not archive Will there be a separate List for admirers of green ScotchBrite pads?? Wonderful afternoon in North Texas....66 degrees F, viz is so good we can see the top of the sky. Regards to all, Zed/do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale From: japhillipsga@aol.com Rick, I suppose I'm just so soiled and jaded from 130 hours of flying my Jab 3300 powered XL. Not worrying about 40? year old crank breaking, or my one spark plug per jug fowling out or the weak oil pump pushing enough lube to the top end side in a long turning bank and frying a valve or two, or simple metal fatigue from the stress to the case of too few and too small main bearings just to name a few. No, I really am a little "e" in Experimental kind of guy. I also prefer an engine I don't have to worry much about, no oil leaking out the bottom?and starts when it's supposed to. On the other hand, I applaud folks that seek ways to recycle and conserve. And I'm happy for and admire folks that have a cause and diligently stick with it no matter what. Though I have met a couple fellows who had Corvair engines in the 601s and could not get to 120 and were disappointed and replaced them with other power. Course, that could be abnormal. No, on the whole I just look at flying differe ntly than you all do, but I will defend your right to that difference. Oh, by the way, I have an extra 3300 mount for a XL when your interested. Best regards, Bill? do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Rick Lindstrom Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 3:31 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale Holy Moley Bill!! The Corvair engine sitting in your old green car and what ends up mounted to the firewall are two different things - AFTER the engine gets a case-up rebuild with a long list of modifications. In fact, I was so impressed with the engine in its aviation form that I picked the engine FIRST, and THEN went looking for an airframe to stick behind it. Currently there's a whole mess of 'em flyin' around in all sorts of airframes. And the development of refinements keeps going on and on. Take a gander at kitplanes.com, go to the blog, and see for yourself just how purty these little powerplants have become. "...but who would really want one?" Your puttin' us on, right? Rick Lindstrom Zenvair 601 XL -----Original Message----- >From: japhillipsga@aol.com >Sent: Apr 15, 2008 11:25 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale > >Gig, you are probably correct, but who would really want one? I once had a Corvair in 1968. It was green and I abandoned it on the side of the road in Tennessee. I suppose it's still there? I certainly would never consider flying behind one and as poorly as they perform I don't ever expect?to. Best regards, Bill of Georgia? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:42 am >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale > > > >Bill, anybody can get a Jab engine mount. To get a Corvair one takes skill >and/or patience. > >:) > > >japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: >> Guys and John, I have a new engine mount for a XL I can let go. Fits a Jab >3300, has been primed and never mounted. Price will be good. Let me know via >e-mail. Bill of Georgia >> >> >> -- > > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176950#176950 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:13 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! Warning to all, The green scotchbright pads come apart ,,.. I will not use them. Sw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zed Smith" Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! > > do not archive > > Will there be a separate List for admirers of green ScotchBrite pads?? > > Wonderful afternoon in North Texas....66 degrees F, viz is so good we can > see the top of the sky. > > Regards to all, > Zed/do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:27 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. At 07:13 PM 4/13/2008, you wrote: >There is another, similarly optimistic way to look at it. This is >creeping morally closer to the idea that someone could exercise >responsibilities similar to those of a regular Private Pilot without a >Class 3 medical. Let's see.... Actually, this is already the case. As an aging Private Pilot, I can exercise those privileges so long as I limit myself to VFR/Day and LSA. I don't really consider the VFR/Day limits particularly limiting, and the LSA is a fair trade-off for the lack of a medical. I would like to see the class 3 dropped altogether, and then I could fly with full Private Pilot privileges including any aircraft, IFR, and night. I expect that to happen some time, but not necessarily soon. The notion that a Class 3 medical makes it OK to fly with a Private Pilot when nearly all the accidents on record come from pilot error is shaky at best. Paul XL fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:54 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! I have some maroon and some green ScotchBright pads. To be safe I used both. (;-) 78 degrees F in San Antonio, South Texas, and severe clear. absolutely do not archive -- Leo Gates N601Z - CH601HDS TDO Rotax 912UL Zed Smith wrote: > > do not archive > > Will there be a separate List for admirers of green ScotchBrite pads?? > > Wonderful afternoon in North Texas....66 degrees F, viz is so good we can see the top of the sky. > > Regards to all, > Zed/do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:42 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! Zed, you're the only guy I worry about on the "new" list. :-) LO&SLO John p.s. AHHH something I've meant to mention but my mental hard drive had a partial crash a couple days ago.. Sebastian told a buddy of mine during SUNNYFUN that the 750 would also be available in PLANS, as well as kits and QuickBuild. This is GOOD NEWS. > do not archive > Will there be a separate List for admirers of green ScotchBrite pads?? > Regards to all, > Zed/do not archive > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:22 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. OK heres my factoid. .03% ( point zero three ) of aviation accidents are medical related. Well that was in 2005..... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:42 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. > > At 07:13 PM 4/13/2008, you wrote: >>There is another, similarly optimistic way to look at it. This is >>creeping morally closer to the idea that someone could exercise >>responsibilities similar to those of a regular Private Pilot without a >>Class 3 medical. Let's see.... > > > Actually, this is already the case. As an aging Private Pilot, I can > exercise those privileges so long as I limit myself to VFR/Day and LSA. I > don't really consider the VFR/Day limits particularly limiting, and the > LSA is a fair trade-off for the lack of a medical. > > I would like to see the class 3 dropped altogether, and then I could fly > with full Private Pilot privileges including any aircraft, IFR, and night. > I expect that to happen some time, but not necessarily soon. The notion > that a Class 3 medical makes it OK to fly with a Private Pilot when nearly > all the accidents on record come from pilot error is shaky at best. > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:59 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 02:42:21PM -0700, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > Actually, this is already the case. As an aging Private Pilot, I can > exercise those privileges so long as I limit myself to VFR/Day and > LSA. I don't really consider the VFR/Day limits particularly > limiting, and the LSA is a fair trade-off for the lack of a medical. Personally, I'd like to be able to fly at night... > I would like to see the class 3 dropped altogether, and then I could > fly with full Private Pilot privileges including any aircraft, IFR, > and night. I expect that to happen some time, but not necessarily > soon. The notion that a Class 3 medical makes it OK to fly with a > Private Pilot when nearly all the accidents on record come from pilot > error is shaky at best. Yeah. It's for that day, or the day when they significantly relax the requirements for a class 3 medical, that I specified a fully IFR-capable aircraft. do not archive -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:48 PM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. Do you really plan on flying IFR in a 601 or 701? Would think you would bounce too much to enjoy the flight. Maybe I am getting too old but I would not plan on a IFR flight and would land ASAP if I hit IFR condititon. Jerry of GA In a message dated 4/15/2008 6:41:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jmaynard@conmicro.com writes: Yeah. It's for that day, or the day when they significantly relax the requirements for a class 3 medical, that I specified a fully IFR-capable aircraft. do not archive **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:06 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 06:57:49PM -0400, Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote: > Do you really plan on flying IFR in a 601 or 701? Would think you would > bounce too much to enjoy the flight. Maybe I am getting too old but I > would not plan on a IFR flight and would land ASAP if I hit IFR > condititon. Jerry of GA Well, I'm certainly not planning on flying hard IFR in it, but I do believe the instrument rating would allow me to fly on days that would be marginal for VFR flight but not all that bad for an instrument pilot. The AMD sales manager/test pilot tells me he's got 500 hours actual in Zodiacs; he commutes from home, an hour or so away by air, to the factory. do not archive -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:06 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. From: "kmccune" The only way I want to fly IFR is on NWA, and I'd rather drive! Now in the 701 (when it gets done) I want to see whats there! Of course thats why the 701 and not a RV or Sonex or 601 ... Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177084#177084 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:19 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stiring....but I didn't inhale!!! From: "kmccune" Shush... don't tell the 601 guys [Wink] Thats great news if its true, I wonder in any 701 tails parts fit..... [Laughing] Kevin John Bolding wrote: > > Sebastian told a buddy of mine during SUNNYFUN that the 750 would also be > available in PLANS, as well as kits and QuickBuild. This is GOOD NEWS. > > > > > > > > > do not archive > > Will there be a separate List for admirers of green ScotchBrite pads?? > > > > > > > > Regards to all, > > Zed/do not archive > > > > > > > > > -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177085#177085 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:29 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. Many aircraft are IFR "capable" but really should stay on the ground when IMC..... IMHO SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "kmccune" Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:24 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. > > The only way I want to fly IFR is on NWA, and I'd rather drive! Now in the > 701 (when it gets done) I want to see whats there! Of course thats why the > 701 and not a RV or Sonex or 601 ... > Kevin > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the > things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the > bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your > sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177084#177084 > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:10 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. >Many aircraft are IFR "capable" but really should stay on the ground >when IMC..... Hi Steve, I agree with you completely. Still, in the real world real people who fly cross country fly into conditions where it is difficult to impossible to maintain control of their planes simply by outside visual reference. In these inevitable situations it is a life saver to be able to perform simple control of the airplane solely by reference to instruments. Needle, ball, and airspeed is enough. With no gyros or no instrument flying skills at all the outcome of these incidents is nearly always fatal. It just doesn't have to be that way. The skill and equipment I am describing has very little to do with IFR flight. It is simple stick and rudder skill with instruments replacing the windshield for pilot orientation. In many ways, IFR flight is more about dealing with the "System" than the airplane. It includes filing and following complicated flight plans. Understanding, copying and reading back clearances. Navigating without outside reference. Dealing with air traffic controllers, vectors, and all the complicated radio out procedures. On the airplane level, IFR flight includes doing things like zero/zero takeoffs, instrument approaches, and staying focused for hours while the whole world inside and outside your plane is trying to distract you. And then there is the whole area of dealing with weather you can't see like ice and thunderstorms. Considering all that, single pilot IFR flight in a light small poorly equipped plane is not something I would want to do. However, being able to survive brief periods of limited visibility and no clear horizon to stay oriented is an ability I think all pilots and planes should have. Paul XL fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. From: "Andrewlieser" I wouldn't even fly IFR with NWA!!!! Joking of course, but in all honesty just because its "IFR" does not automatically mean the rides are crap and that you would be bouncing all over the place. True this DOES happen but I've flown IFR days were the rides are better than that of a VFR day. An example would be when there's a real stable air mass and visibility sucks, or there's a real low layer of stratiform clouds that top out at 5-6 thousand feet. In both those situations the IFR / IMC would be usually very smooth and most likely easily handled by any aircraft including the 601! Just my 2 cents on the IFR capabilities of a 601. -------- Andrew Lieser Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177094#177094 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:23 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 05:00:37PM -0700, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > Considering all that, single pilot IFR flight in a light small poorly > equipped plane is not something I would want to do. However, being > able to survive brief periods of limited visibility and no clear > horizon to stay oriented is an ability I think all pilots and planes > should have. "It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than the other way around." Proper preflight planning and conservative decision making should keep me out of trouble...but the possibility always exists, and I want as many tools in the box as I can get. N55ZC is intended as a cross country cruiser, and the IFR instrumentation and avionics may just save my hide one day. I'll be happy if I never need it (at least, as things stand now). Even if I never file an IFR flight plan. If the rules change to the point that I can get an instrument rating, the aircraft will be ready. Even then, my decision making will be biased toward only going if it's practical. To that end, I plan to get with my friendly neighborhood CFII and take a couple of real IFR trips in real, but light, IMC just to see what it's like for real. Being able to file /G is a plus. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:52 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. I agree Paul. If being able to depart the airport in limited visability and then bust out on top for that smooth and beautiful trip, its a good thing. If however people think that an experimental aircraft (most, not all) are as stable as a Cessna or Piper they may want to take an actual ride in the real IMC. My past experience was that in my Cessnas and then Pipers, I just went for the gusto.. But in my two other experimentals I had lots of other worries. Worries like that ol uncertified engine, Did I tightend "that" bolt to specs etc... I m one for not pushing the weather situation much. Yes, I ve scud run in the past. After landing, I thanked the BIG GUY for getting me through the mess. Geeze, in fact now days I dont fly at night. Remember the thought of a power failure at night ? First thing you do is to turn off all electricial. Just before landing out there in a field you turn on the electricial/landing light. If you dont like what you see, turn off the electricial... enjoy................................................. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. > > >>Many aircraft are IFR "capable" but really should stay on the ground when >>IMC..... > > Hi Steve, > > I agree with you completely. > > Still, in the real world real people who fly cross country fly into > conditions where it is difficult to impossible to maintain control of > their planes simply by outside visual reference. In these inevitable > situations it is a life saver to be able to perform simple control of the > airplane solely by reference to instruments. Needle, ball, and airspeed > is enough. With no gyros or no instrument flying skills at all the > outcome of these incidents is nearly always fatal. It just doesn't have > to be that way. > > The skill and equipment I am describing has very little to do with IFR > flight. It is simple stick and rudder skill with instruments replacing > the windshield for pilot orientation. In many ways, IFR flight is more > about dealing with the "System" than the airplane. It includes filing and > following complicated flight plans. Understanding, copying and reading > back clearances. Navigating without outside reference. Dealing with air > traffic controllers, vectors, and all the complicated radio out > procedures. On the airplane level, IFR flight includes doing things like > zero/zero takeoffs, instrument approaches, and staying focused for hours > while the whole world inside and outside your plane is trying to distract > you. And then there is the whole area of dealing with weather you can't > see like ice and thunderstorms. > > Considering all that, single pilot IFR flight in a light small poorly > equipped plane is not something I would want to do. However, being able > to survive brief periods of limited visibility and no clear horizon to > stay oriented is an ability I think all pilots and planes should have. > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.