Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:19 AM - Re: To Matt D (Ron Lendon)
2. 07:07 AM - LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else (Brett Hanley)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: airplane building, anyone? (Ron Lendon)
4. 07:15 AM - Re: Project for sale (Gig Giacona)
5. 07:25 AM - Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Gig Giacona)
6. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Project for sale (Rick Lindstrom)
7. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
8. 08:00 AM - Re: LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else (Randall J. Hebert)
9. 08:21 AM - Re: LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else (Jay Maynard)
10. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: airplane building, anyone? (David Downey)
11. 08:50 AM - Re: LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else (Randall J. Hebert)
12. 10:40 AM - Re: Project for sale (Gig Giacona)
13. 12:33 PM - Level reference of center propeller (Antonio bm)
14. 12:56 PM - 701/801 Listers - Couple of tidbits (moorecomp)
15. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: Nosebowl (Jaybannist@cs.com)
16. 01:44 PM - Re: Nosebowl (Gig Giacona)
17. 02:41 PM - 701 Elevator bellcrank (philip smith)
18. 02:52 PM - Zodiac XL - Rear spar attachment bracket (Tim Juhl)
19. 03:19 PM - Re: 701 Elevator bellcrank (MacDonald Doug)
20. 04:23 PM - Re:701 bellcrank (Zed Smith)
21. 04:32 PM - 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength (Jerry Shepard)
22. 05:36 PM - Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength (Paul Mulwitz)
23. 05:37 PM - Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength (Cndmovn)
24. 05:48 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Rear spar attachment bracket (Craig Payne)
25. 05:55 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Rear spar attachment bracket (Herb Heaton)
26. 06:12 PM - tuning the altimeter (THOMAS SMALL)
27. 06:35 PM - Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength (David Downey)
28. 06:47 PM - Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength (Tim Juhl)
29. 06:57 PM - Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength (Sabrina)
30. 07:35 PM - Re: Bending Brake (Graeme)
31. 08:15 PM - Re: Bending Brake ()
32. 08:44 PM - Re: Bending Brake (Graeme)
33. 09:49 PM - Re: Bending Brake (TxDave)
34. 10:39 PM - Re: 601XL wing jig (Larry Winger)
35. 10:55 PM - Re: Bending Brake (Terry Turnquist)
36. 10:55 PM - Re: 601XL wing jig (Cndmovn)
Message 1
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WOW! I have been away to SnF 2008 for a week of living outdoors and no computers,
yes it can be done, and missed all this, thank god.
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177172#177172
Message 2
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| Subject: | LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else |
This is my not so humble opinion of the Sport LSA rules.
The rule was pawned off on the EAA membership as allowing people to get licensed
inexpensively and to allow aging pilots to continue to fly without a medical.
In reality it was to allow LSA to be built and sold as completed aircraft. So
now all we need to do is find a FBO that is willing to spend 80 to 100K for
a trainer. That trainer must be factory built. After making that investment the
FBO can now give lesions to someone for about twenty hours. It comes as no
surprise to me that there are not many FBO's lining up to participate. Try going
to just about any FBO in the country and ask about LSA. See what they tell
you about LSA. Unless you have a medical problem they will tell you to forget
LSA and just go private.
When students finish their LSA rating there is next to nothing to rent that can
be flown as LSA. Interesting how they set the weight limits just below the
most common two seat trainers in the world, the Cessna 150 series. Do you think
that was done without foresight?
LSA is fine as long as you own a plane. However, owning your own plane is not
an economical way to get into flying. Once the aged Doctors and Lawyers get
their planes what will support the category and the industry? Experimental LSA
will most likely be the largest group to benefit. They will only benefit if
they own the plane. I am in the experimental LSA group and I intend to fly as
a LSA pilot only because I own a plane and do not want to hassle with a medical.
I my opinion if they want to make this category successful and help general aviation
the weight limits need to be raised enough to include the current trainer
fleet of 150 series aircraft. With that single change the rule could become
an inexpensive way to get into flying.
I support and have benefited from membership in the EAA. However, I am tired
of them blowing smoke about all the great things they did for the LSA rule. It
is all just that; smoke up the memberships a--. This rule is just a good example
of how the EAA is no longer the grass roots organization it once was.
This opinion and about two bucks will get you a free coffee just about any where
coffee is sold!
Brett
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
All metal XL wing tip.
Didn't want to put plastic on the end of my wing so here are the results of the
study. My API said it looks good and should function just fine. The AC/NAV
lights are all in the wing tips, no tail light required.
Finished pic is here:
http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=1683&log=43428&row=2
Look back a few entries to see the methods of fabrication.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177181#177181
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Project for sale |
Damn straight gold is faster. And our noise bowls look better.
I got my cowling from WW yesterday and I can't remember of the top of my head who
the guy is that is building them for him but the workmanship is as close to
perfect as any I've seen. It's going to look out of place on my 601.
tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote:
> Not on your tintype, Gig!
>
> At least not until I get some gold parts, too! Everyone knows they go faster.
>
> rick
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177183#177183
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. |
All IFR isn't that bumpy and filing IFR even in VMC does from time to time have
it's advantages.
While the class 3 may someday be lifted for VFR Private Cert holders I just don't
see them dropping it for IFR flight.
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote:
> Do you really plan on flying IFR in a 601 or 701? Would think you would bounce
too much to enjoy the flight. Maybe I am getting too old but I would not plan
on a IFR flight and would land ASAP if I hit IFR condititon. Jerry of GA
>
> In a message dated 4/15/2008 6:41:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jmaynard@conmicro.com
writes:
>
> >
> >
> > Yeah. It's for that day, or the day when they significantly relax the
> > requirements for a class 3 medical, that I specified a fully IFR-capable
> > aircraft.
> >
> > do not archive
> >
>
>
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177187#177187
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Project for sale |
I have an early nose bowl, Gig, that has some layup voids on the mounting flange.
Not really a structural or strength issue, but it still bugs me a bit.
I'd be more than happy to trade straight across so you can maintain the correct
look of your 601. And best of all, it's got red paint everywhere!
You can thank me later.
rick
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>Sent: Apr 16, 2008 7:12 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Project for sale
>
>
>Damn straight gold is faster. And our noise bowls look better.
>
>I got my cowling from WW yesterday and I can't remember of the top of my head
who the guy is that is building them for him but the workmanship is as close to
perfect as any I've seen. It's going to look out of place on my 601.
>
>
>tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote:
>> Not on your tintype, Gig!
>>
>> At least not until I get some gold parts, too! Everyone knows they go faster.
>>
>> rick
>>
>> --
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177183#177183
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. |
Thanks to all that responded to my question. Maybe I will add to my airspeed
and altimeter after the 40 hours test. Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE
In a message dated 4/16/2008 10:26:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wr.giacona@suddenlink.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
All IFR isn't that bumpy and filing IFR even in VMC does from time to time
have it's advantages.
While the class 3 may someday be lifted for VFR Private Cert holders I just
don't see them dropping it for IFR flight.
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote:
> Do you really plan on flying IFR in a 601 or 701? Would think you would
bounce too much to enjoy the flight. Maybe I am getting too old but I would
not plan on a IFR flight and would land ASAP if I hit IFR condititon. Jerry of
GA
.
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850)
Message 8
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| Subject: | LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else |
Brett
You make an excellent point about how the LSA came about??
I agree with your opinion (I feel that way about a lot of things)
I am 63 and sold my Cessna 152 because of several factors one was
medical that has since been cleared up and I was able to renew my class
3
I am building for several reasons
The 701 will allow me to fly w/o the medical if I choose not to renew
it.
I can pay as you go. I don't have to take out a loan (one of the
reasons I sold the 152)
I know it won't be cheaper just easier for me to handle financing. (For
me anyway)
I do enjoy this building process. (I completed riveting the spars last
night and began the lightening holes)
I could buy a 1946 Cub $50K or better unless I restore one then the
costs likely go thru the roof, because I am not certified for that.
I could buy the $100k LSA (Yea right)
At least I will be able to fly the 701.
Happy Building all
Randall J Hebert
CH701 Tail Done working on the wings
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett
Hanley
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:02 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else
This is my not so humble opinion of the Sport LSA rules.
The rule was pawned off on the EAA membership as allowing people to get
licensed inexpensively and to allow aging pilots to continue to fly
without a medical.
...
Brett
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else |
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 09:54:33AM -0500, Randall J. Hebert wrote:
> I could buy the $100k LSA (Yea right)
I can, and am, although it's a little bit of a stretch for me. I'm not a
doctor or lawyer, either, just a mild-mannered (well, maybe not so mild)
computer consultant.
Owning my own plane is a dream I've had for 20 years. The LSA rule allows me
to do so, and fly it, even with some medical issues.
do not archive
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: airplane building, anyone? |
looks great!
All metal XL wing tip.
Didn't want to put plastic on the end of my wing so here are the results of the
study. My API said it looks good and should function just fine. The AC/NAV
lights are all in the wing tips, no tail light required.
Finished pic is here:
http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=1683&log=43428&row=2
Look back a few entries to see the methods of fabrication.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177181#177181
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 11
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| Subject: | LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else |
Yes Jay
I am not being critical of those who can go the LSA route.
The Yea Right was meant for me (No way could I do it)
By the way Nice job at South Park :)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Randall J Hebert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Maynard
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: LSA was for manufacturers and nobody else
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 09:54:33AM -0500, Randall J. Hebert wrote:
> I could buy the $100k LSA (Yea right)
I can, and am, although it's a little bit of a stretch for me. I'm not a
doctor or lawyer, either, just a mild-mannered (well, maybe not so mild)
computer consultant.
Owning my own plane is a dream I've had for 20 years. The LSA rule
allows me to do so, and fly it, even with some medical issues.
do not archive
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Project for sale |
While the nose bowl also looks better than most of the rest of my airframe I was
talking about the aluminum work cowling that looks so much better than my work
that it makes me sad.
Rick, is your nose bowl the one piece or the 2 piece? I love my two piece and couldn't
find any voids in it and I looked real hard because the box that it came
in was trashed by DHL and I figured what ever was in it had to be screwed up.
Now the only thing that makes me nervous is cutting out the holes for the prop
and the air intake. Same goes for the required cuts on the FP-13 spinner I got
from Van's.
Any hints will be appreciated.
piece(at)mindspring.c wrote:
> I have an early nose bowl, Gig, that has some layup voids on the mounting flange.
Not really a structural or strength issue, but it still bugs me a bit.
>
> I'd be more than happy to trade straight across so you can maintain the correct
look of your 601. And best of all, it's got red paint everywhere!
>
> You can thank me later.
>
> rick
>
> do not archive
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177233#177233
Message 13
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| Subject: | Level reference of center propeller |
Hello to all,
I have made almost completed a Zenair 601HD with Rotax 912UL and I havent
I been able to find in the planes where it is the center of traction of the
propeller, I suppose that it will be above the reference upper longeron,
somebody can tell me how many millimeters?
For example Jabiru engine is 23mm up for upper longeron.
Antonio Beneytez
601HD 98%-rotax 912UL
Hola a todos,
tengo casi acabado un Zenair 601HD y no he podido encontrar en los planos
donde se encuentra el centro de traccin de la hlice, supongo que estar
por encima del larguero de referencia, alguien me puede decir cuantos
milmetros?
Antonio Beneytez
601HD 98%-rotax 912UL
Message 14
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| Subject: | 701/801 Listers - Couple of tidbits |
All,
Interesting what one can find on the internet.
Check out the video of the AMD Patriot / MXP Tumaco. Quite the approach!
http://www.mxpaircraft.com/gallery/Tumaco.divx
And the recent posts regarding a Patriot in kit form; maybe something like this-
http://www.mxpaircraft.com/IT/mxp_kit.php
At least AMD could change the logo a little.
Craig Moore - A&P
701 builder wannabe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177252#177252
Message 15
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Gig,
I used a hand held power jigsaw to cut the nosebowl holes. The one behind
the spinner doesn't have to be real pretty and you need only to leave enough
flat area to fasten the nosebowl spacer to it. The intake holes were rough cut
with the jigsaw and cleaned up with a Dremel. I didn't cut the intake holes for
a long time, but the installation will go a lot easier if you go ahead and cut
them early on. You can reach in behind to hold the nosebowl spacer bolts
while you put the nuts on them from the front.
If yours is like mine, you will have to do some notching of the rear flanges
for the cowling angles to fit close enough. I also had to cut some of that
rear flange off, because it was curled too much (outward) and kept the cowling
metal sheets from lying flush with the surface of the nosebowl.
I also had to notch the baffle sheet metal where the upper cowling angles
crossed at right angles.
I had to do some microfiber work around the intake holes at the joining
flanges.
I've attached a drawing of the nosebowl spacer.
For the spinner cuts, I made templates of Bristol board, the cutouts fine
tuned with masking tape. I made the cuts to the spinner with a Dremel. I used
cut out material for the filler behind the prop shaft instead of aluminum as in
Van's instructions. These fillers are riveted to the backplate, and not
fastened to the spinner.
Jay in Dallas CH 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
Message 16
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I will be calling you when I start working on this. Without the plans and parts
in front of me all that gives me a headache.
:)
do not archive
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177261#177261
Message 17
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| Subject: | 701 Elevator bellcrank |
Posted before but no answers. What does one use for reference when
assembling the actuator rod from the bell crank to the control stick. Print
says neutral, old post said vertical. Need to know if one assumes the rear
holes on the bell crank are parallel to the stick or other ideas. Or does
on wait till you get the seat in with the elevator hooked up and establish
the lenght at that time.
Thanks.
Phil CH-701 started Feb 2007 done ????
Message 18
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| Subject: | Zodiac XL - Rear spar attachment bracket |
I'm trying to figure something out. The rear spar attachment bracket (6B5-2) shows
three rows of rivet holes in parallel lines. Initially you only drill the
inboard row, saving the rest for later. The bracket attaches square to the
rear channel (6B5-4) which the plans tell you to trim so that the top dimension
is 14 mm narrower than the bottom. Here is my question.
Nowhere in the photo guide have I found anything telling me to trim the rear channel.
In addition, if I later drill the holes in the spar attachment bracket
the way they are plotted the top one will have an edge distance of only three
mm. It shows drilling the remaining holes in the attachment bracket in the photo
guide (6B16a pgs 2 & 3), but in the photo they appear to be parallel to
the original line, not sloped to adjust for any trimming. The rear spar attachment
bracket sticks out through a cutout in the side skin so I assume the skin
must not be at a 90 to the floor at this point if the channel must be trimmed
to clear it. Is this correct?
So: Do you trim the rear channel and then later adjust the layout of the rivets
to maintain edge distance or what?
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177272#177272
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Elevator bellcrank |
Phil, I was hoping someone else would step up on this
one so I kept quiet...
I have mounted my actuator rod to the bell crank and
left it long at the stick end. Once I get the tail
mounted and the seat pans in, I'll figure out exactly
where I want my neutral to be. This will likely be
part of the final assembly/rigging for me.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Fuse on the gear, skinning wings
Do Not Archive
--- philip smith <madriver@wildblue.net> wrote:
> Posted before but no answers. What does one use for
> reference when
> assembling the actuator rod from the bell crank to
> the control stick. Print
> says neutral, old post said vertical. Need to know
> if one assumes the rear
> holes on the bell crank are parallel to the stick or
> other ideas. Or does
> on wait till you get the seat in with the elevator
> hooked up and establish
> the lenght at that time.
> Thanks.
>
> Phil CH-701 started Feb 2007 done ????
>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Re:701 bellcrank |
do not archive
I used a small board across top of horiz stab & elev. Duct tape is okay.
This puts elev in as near "neutral" as it gets. You gotta reference somewhere!
Regards,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc
Message 21
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| Subject: | 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength |
We have 2 601XL projects in process in our EAA chapter.
Both have their wings done.
We have the thought of adding a rivet between each one along the spar,
through both top and bottom and nose skins which would make them pitch
20, rather than pitch 40 as designed and built.
Our thought is that with 75-90 # of fuel bouncing on the skins as well
as the flying forces, about 20 rivets may not be enough in the fuel tank
area to carry the load.Twice as many should help.
In other places where there are severe load needs, (longerons) the
spacing is pitch 20.
Probably only about a pound extra, about 360 rivets.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength |
Hi Jerry,
I think your idea is OK except for the fact that the accidents seem
to happen when the fuel is low rather than full.
We really need to get definitive information on the failures. I am
hopeful that the lack of fire in the latest accident will help the
investigators figure out what actually took place.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 04:29 PM 4/16/2008, you wrote:
>
>Our thought is that with 75-90 # of fuel bouncing on the skins as
>well as the flying forces, about 20 rivets may not be enough in the
>fuel tank area to carry the load.Twice as many should help.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength |
Jerry:
This might be a dumb question, but why? I do not know of anyone who has a
the front D-cell fall off. By taking out the extra metal in the spar (the
one area where you really need to be careful about weakening ) you might
just compromise the strength of the spar. The rivet does not replace the
strength you removed.
Just my 2 cents.
Paul
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 7:29 PM, Jerry Shepard <jshep00@centurytel.net>
wrote:
> We have 2 601XL projects in process in our EAA chapter.
> Both have their wings done.
>
> We have the thought of adding a rivet between each one along the spar,
> through both top and bottom and nose skins which would make them pitch 20,
> rather than pitch 40 as designed and built.
>
> Our thought is that with 75-90 # of fuel bouncing on the skins as well as
> the flying forces, about 20 rivets may not be enough in the fuel tank area
> to carry the load.Twice as many should help.
>
> In other places where there are severe load needs, (longerons) the spacing
> is pitch 20.
>
> Probably only about a pound extra, about 360 rivets.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Zodiac XL - Rear spar attachment bracket |
The attached pictures shows what 6B5-2 and 6B5-4 (copilot side) look
like in
my QBK.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Rear spar attachment bracket
I'm trying to figure something out. The rear spar attachment bracket
(6B5-2) shows three rows of rivet holes in parallel lines. Initially
you
only drill the inboard row, saving the rest for later. The bracket
attaches
square to the rear channel (6B5-4) which the plans tell you to trim so
that
the top dimension is 14 mm narrower than the bottom. Here is my
question.
Nowhere in the photo guide have I found anything telling me to trim the
rear
channel. In addition, if I later drill the holes in the spar attachment
bracket the way they are plotted the top one will have an edge distance
of
only three mm. It shows drilling the remaining holes in the attachment
bracket in the photo guide (6B16a pgs 2 & 3), but in the photo they
appear
to be parallel to the original line, not sloped to adjust for any
trimming.
The rear spar attachment bracket sticks out through a cutout in the side
skin so I assume the skin must not be at a 90=C2=B0 to the floor at this
point
if the channel must be trimmed to clear it. Is this correct?
So: Do you trim the rear channel and then later adjust the layout of
the
rivets to maintain edge distance or what?
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177272#177272
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Rear spar attachment bracket |
Photo E-mail Play
slideshow<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1Lc0GYp
lxDieC*NYbahBn4!ToLA3Q7n0jGP3yZl4ObqRd8afmjN6sh4gw1Z1jtj70R!ofnk2DyDLQ%24
%24> | Download images
<http://photos.msn.com/viewing/Photos.aspx?pi_Type=SlideshowTask&Task=
Download&stppData=&pi_ImagesOnly=1&Folder=nBuRgwTGIGi58ip8u*T7nT31*
h6b!CiQalLvepI4dEs%24&User=A2WedJaYKoiDxwoUejv1CqZYhnCWKIT3&pi_NoLogin=
1>
Tim,
I think what you are looking for starts on page 6-B-11C-page 4, and
6-B-16A-page 2. Your part numbers are different than mine, so I'm not
sure which channel you want to trim. If the plans tell you to trim
6B5-4, then you should trim it. The plans always take precedent over
the photo guide. I laid out the holes in the attach plate as shown on
the plans and everything fit just fine.
Herb<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1Lc0GYplxDie
C*NYbahBn4!ToLA3Q7n0jGP3yZl4ObqRd8afmjN6sh4gw1Z1jtj70R!ofnk2DyDLQ%24%24>
<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1Lc0GYplxDieC*NY
bahBn4!ToLA3Q7n0jGP3yZl4ObqRd8afmjN6sh4gw1Z1jtj70T9kqGPbYz2Tg%24%24>
<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1Lc0GYplxDieC*NY
bahBn4!ToLA3Q7n0jGP3yZl4ObqRd8afmjN6sh4gw1Z1jtj70SF7z1pAHyxWg%24%24>
<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1Lc0GYplxDieC*NY
bahBn4!ToLA3Q7n0jGP3yZl4ObqRd8afmjN6sh4gw1Z1jtj70QCj!8vdERonA%24%24>
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl<mailto:juhl@avci.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Rear spar attachment bracket
<juhl@avci.net<mailto:juhl@avci.net>>
I'm trying to figure something out. The rear spar attachment bracket
(6B5-2) shows three rows of rivet holes in parallel lines. Initially
you only drill the inboard row, saving the rest for later. The bracket
attaches square to the rear channel (6B5-4) which the plans tell you to
trim so that the top dimension is 14 mm narrower than the bottom. Here
is my question.
Nowhere in the photo guide have I found anything telling me to trim
the rear channel. In addition, if I later drill the holes in the spar
attachment bracket the way they are plotted the top one will have an
edge distance of only three mm. It shows drilling the remaining holes
in the attachment bracket in the photo guide (6B16a pgs 2 & 3), but in
the photo they appear to be parallel to the original line, not sloped to
adjust for any trimming. The rear spar attachment bracket sticks out
through a cutout in the side skin so I assume the skin must not be at a
90=C2=B0 to the floor at this point if the channel must be trimmed to
clear it. Is this correct?
So: Do you trim the rear channel and then later adjust the layout of
the rivets to maintain edge distance or what?
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177272#177272<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177272#177272>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days.
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Message 26
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| Subject: | tuning the altimeter |
I've had an altimeter that reads high forever. Anywhere near 3000 or
above it's always 180 to 200 higher than GPS or the local approach
control. Just compensated by adding 200 but that's not a good long term
practice.
I remembered reading in one of Tony Bingelis' books that you could fine
tune your airspeed - too high, too low - with a collar or ring on the
static pickup if you have one mounted as a tube under the wing. I found
the info in his Sportplane Construction Techniques (pages 281, 282) and
tried to reference it to the altimeter.
Using a piece of solid core 12 AWG wire, stripped of insulation, I
coiled it around a 1/4 drill shaft and with a bit of cutting, fitting,
and fidgeting ended up with a C shaped piece that could be made a snug
fit on the static tube which is attached to the pitot tube in the
standard ACS P/N 15144 part. The stripped wire was .080.
Because I thought what was needed was higher pressure at the static
hole, the C piece was mounted about 1/8 inch behind the static hole.
First flight this a.m. brought the reading to within 100 feet. A second
adjustment brought it on. IAS down slightly, about three MPH in the 120
range.
My pitot static is located just outboard the wing locker on the left
wing and behind the spar ever so slightly. I think this rather far
rearward location accounted for the lower pressure at the tube inlets.
If the reading looks good on next flight a tab of nailpolish will be
added to wire.
smallie HDS/3300 325 hours at N94 - always looking for a race
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength |
That is the single change that no one can argue strongly will have a likely negative
effect. Closing the pitch will increase stability in the design (and just
about any design unless they end up closer than 4D spacing). It will change
the failure mode and the skins may just start to fail in bearing with that many
fasteners - rather than what has been reported in the official reports for (I
believe) 2 of the history of incidents, where the fasteners all sheared off
or the heads all popped off at some point in the sequence of events.
Jerry Shepard <jshep00@centurytel.net> wrote: We have 2 601XL projects in
process in our EAA chapter.
Both have their wings done.
We have the thought of adding a rivet between each one along the spar, through
both top and bottom and nose skins which would make them pitch 20, rather
than pitch 40 as designed and built.
Our thought is that with 75-90 # of fuel bouncing on the skins as well as the
flying forces, about 20 rivets may not be enough in the fuel tank area to carry
the load.Twice as many should help.
In other places where there are severe load needs, (longerons) the spacing is
pitch 20.
Probably only about a pound extra, about 360 rivets.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength |
Before making such a modification I would be looking for actual signs of a problem,
not making changes based upon guesses as to what might have happened. If
the tanks were pulling the leading edge off I think you would see smoking rivets
long before you reached the failure point. In addition, remember that Zenith
already uses more rivets in each location than are required to maintain structural
integrity. I've never seen an XL that looked like it had a problem in
that area.
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177316#177316
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 601 xl wing-spar-skin -rivet strength |
What about adding forward facing spar caps. Then the spar is more like an I-beam.
You could use a double staggered set of rivets on the leading edges. One
row in the forward spar cap an offset row in the rear spar cap.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177319#177319
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Bending Brake |
Has any one who has a Dave Clay designed bender used it to bend
CH701 longerons.
They are .040thou and approx 1830mm long.
If so was it successful with a good bend or problems??
Thanks in advance
Graemecns
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG.
16/04/2008 5:34 PM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Bending Brake |
I have used it to bend up spars of .040 bending the rear flanges, worked
fine.
David Mikesell
230 Theresa Drive, #6
Cloverdale, CA 95425
209-224-4485
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Graeme
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Bending Brake
Has any one who has a Dave Clay designed bender used it to bend
CH701 longerons.
They are .040thou and approx 1830mm long.
If so was it successful with a good bend or problems??
Thanks in advance
Graemecns
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
16/04/2008 5:34 PM
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Bending Brake |
Thanks It looks like I will have to make one
----- Original Message -----
From: skyguynca@skyguynca.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Bending Brake
I have used it to bend up spars of .040 bending the rear flanges,
worked fine.
David Mikesell
230 Theresa Drive, #6
Cloverdale, CA 95425
209-224-4485
skyguynca@skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Graeme
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Bending Brake
Has any one who has a Dave Clay designed bender used it to bend
CH701 longerons.
They are .040thou and approx 1830mm long.
If so was it successful with a good bend or problems??
Thanks in advance
Graemecns
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
16/04/2008 5:34 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Bending Brake |
Ever thought about asking the brake's designer? I am still here.
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177347#177347
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL wing jig |
Paul,
As it turns out, I just decided to build my own wing jigs from scratch, and
have already made some good progress. Thanks again for the offer.
Larry Winger
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Cndmovn <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure how CNC is going to alleviate the need for the jig. The jig sets
> the level of the rear spar to the main spar and the fuse. If your fuselage
> is not jigged level, then it alignment is going to be wrong regardless of
> the CNC drilling.
>
> My opinion anyway.
>
> I can send you mine when I am done if you dont get any other respondents
> that are closer.
> Paul
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Larry Winger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > When I called Nick today, I understood him to say that the new kits
> > would not include them because of the CNC side skins that take the guess
> > work out of the alignment process. It is also possible that he was talking
> > about what they are considering, and not yet doing.
> >
> > Larry Winger
> > Tustin, CA
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Cndmovn <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > hmmm, Larry, the wing jigs are still part of the XL kit as far as I
> > > know. That is if you are talking about the jigs that reference the spar
to
> > > the rear spar.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:52 PM, lwinger <larrywinger@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I understand that the right and left wing jigs used to be part of
> > > > the 601XL kits. Is there anyone who has a set in good shape that would
be
> > > > willing to lend or rent them to me? Of course I would pay for shipping
both
> > > > ways.
> > > >
> > > > Feel free to contact me direct at larrywinger@gmail.com.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Do Not Archive
> > > >
> > > > --------
> > > > Larry Winger
> > > > Tustin, CA
> > > > 601XL/Corvair from scratch
> > > > Control surfaces and wings complete.
> > > > Bottom rear fuselage and firewall done
> > > > Ready for wing jig alignment
> > > > www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Read this topic online here:
> > > >
> > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175363#175363
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > *
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Bending Brake |
You know how it is Dave, out of sight, out of mind LOL!
Do not archive
Terry Turnquist
Ever thought about asking the brake's designer? I am still here.
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177347#177347
---------------------------------
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Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL wing jig |
go for it! Cheers
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Larry Winger <larrywinger@gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> As it turns out, I just decided to build my own wing jigs from scratch,
> and have already made some good progress. Thanks again for the offer.
>
> Larry Winger
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Cndmovn <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Not sure how CNC is going to alleviate the need for the jig. The jig
> > sets the level of the rear spar to the main spar and the fuse. If your
> > fuselage is not jigged level, then it alignment is going to be wrong
> > regardless of the CNC drilling.
> >
> > My opinion anyway.
> >
> > I can send you mine when I am done if you dont get any other respondents
> > that are closer.
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Larry Winger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > When I called Nick today, I understood him to say that the new kits
> > > would not include them because of the CNC side skins that take the guess
> > > work out of the alignment process. It is also possible that he was talking
> > > about what they are considering, and not yet doing.
> > >
> > > Larry Winger
> > > Tustin, CA
> > >
> > > Do Not Archive
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Cndmovn <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > hmmm, Larry, the wing jigs are still part of the XL kit as far as I
> > > > know. That is if you are talking about the jigs that reference the spar
to
> > > > the rear spar.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:52 PM, lwinger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > larrywinger@gmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand that the right and left wing jigs used to be part of
> > > > > the 601XL kits. Is there anyone who has a set in good shape that would
be
> > > > > willing to lend or rent them to me? Of course I would pay for shipping
both
> > > > > ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > Feel free to contact me direct at larrywinger@gmail.com.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do Not Archive
> > > > >
> > > > > --------
> > > > > Larry Winger
> > > > > Tustin, CA
> > > > > 601XL/Corvair from scratch
> > > > > Control surfaces and wings complete.
> > > > > Bottom rear fuselage and firewall done
> > > > > Ready for wing jig alignment
> > > > > www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Read this topic online here:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175363#175363
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > >
> > > *
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> *
>
> *
>
>
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