Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:57 AM - Monday Evening Chat (George Race)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (MacDonald Doug)
3. 04:19 AM - Canopy Question (DaveG601XL)
4. 05:21 AM - Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Martin Pohl)
5. 05:48 AM - Re: Canopy Question, Too (Jaybannist@cs.com)
6. 06:14 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Juan Vega)
7. 07:04 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (steve)
8. 07:21 AM - Re: Canopy Question (Gig Giacona)
9. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Jim McBurney)
10. 07:40 AM - Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (AB_Summit)
11. 08:05 AM - Re: Canopy Question (DaveG601XL)
12. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Canopy Question (Jaybannist@cs.com)
13. 08:38 AM - Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (MacDonald Doug)
14. 08:53 AM - Re: Canopy Question (Gig Giacona)
15. 09:05 AM - Re: Canopy Question (DaveG601XL)
16. 09:29 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Tim Juhl)
17. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc)
18. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Gary Gower)
19. 10:15 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Martin Pohl)
20. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc)
21. 10:57 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Sabrina)
22. 11:43 AM - TruTrak Autopilot for Zenith (Douglas Dalstrom)
23. 12:15 PM - Re: Death of my Harley (monte(a)rotaryae(dot)com)
24. 12:36 PM - Change topic to RotaMax for 701 and 601. (Jerry Hey)
25. 12:39 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Martin Pohl)
26. 12:43 PM - Re: Canopy Question (Bryan Martin)
27. 12:53 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Bryan Martin)
28. 01:00 PM - Re: Death of my Harley (Gig Giacona)
29. 01:04 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Gig Giacona)
30. 01:06 PM - 601XL Project for Sale - pictures (jhines)
31. 01:44 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Tim Juhl)
32. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (MaxNr@aol.com)
33. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: recent accident (xl)
34. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Craig Payne)
35. 02:50 PM - Re: recent accident (Gig Giacona)
36. 03:14 PM - Re: Canopy Question (Jerry Shepard)
37. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: recent accident (n801bh@netzero.com)
38. 04:24 PM - Re: 601HDS: Adding a cutout over the leading edge wing tanks (Mitch Hodges)
39. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: recent accident (Craig Payne)
40. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: recent accident (xl)
41. 05:03 PM - Rivet Gun Recommendation? (mwtucker)
42. 05:16 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (george may)
43. 05:34 PM - Re: Haven't Forgotten New Lists... (kmccune)
44. 05:42 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (burbby)
45. 05:48 PM - Primer Under Rivet Heads (dfmoeller)
46. 05:52 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Lee Steensland)
47. 05:54 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (steve)
48. 05:56 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (kmccune)
49. 06:09 PM - Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? (Andrewlieser)
50. 06:12 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Andrewlieser)
51. 06:35 PM - Where did zenair.com go? (seattle)
52. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (macleod@eagle.ca)
53. 06:44 PM - Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads (John Bolding)
54. 07:44 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (PatrickW)
55. 07:55 PM - Re: Where did zenair.com go? (Frank Roskind)
56. 08:15 PM - Re: C-GXLP first flight- corvair 601XL (Ron Lendon)
57. 08:34 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? (Ron Lendon)
58. 08:38 PM - Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads (Ron Lendon)
59. 08:45 PM - Building again (Ron Lendon)
60. 09:13 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? (Andrewlieser)
61. 09:18 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Jay Maynard)
62. 11:56 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Terry Phillips)
Message 1
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Subject: | Monday Evening Chat |
Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around
8:00 PM Eastern (Daylight Savings Time now in effect)
http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
CH-701 N73EX (Reserved)
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for |
701
Randy, you can set your gross weight at anything you
like within reason. You don't have to use the
additional GWT but it will take care of the math issue
for you. I would recommend using 1200lb as your GWT
as that is the maximum gross weight allowed for the
ULTRA permit. That way if you ever end up on floats,
you'll still have a little room in the calculations.
There should be a formula on your plans for adjusting
the load limits for opperation at higher gross weights
if you want to opperate at the higher weight.
Hope this helps with your calculations
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do not Archive
--- AB_Summit <rengler@live.ca> wrote:
> <rengler@live.ca>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Just doing some studying and research while I wait
> for my 701 plans to arrive and I discovered this
> formula to calculate the maximum empty weight
> allowed. I am wondering if I am interpreting this
> correctly.
>
> According this formula, if I used a 90HP Suzuki
> 1.3L, in a 701 with a gross weight of 1100 lbs, I
> would be allowed a max. empty weight of 633 lbs in
> order to be legal in the amateur built category. I'm
> thinking it might be tough to achieve that weight
> using anything other than a Rotax engine.
>
> Here's how I arrived at that 633 lb figure:
>
> 1100 - (175 + (175 x 1.414) + (90 x 0.5)) = ~633
> lbs.
>
> Here's a link to the rule and the formula:
>
>
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/Part5/Standards/549/sub-b.htm#549.107
>
> I'm just wondering if this rule is enforced because
> if it is, it would rule out a lot of alternative
> engine choices for Canadians building in the
> Amateur-built category.
>
> Would there be any hope of getting a Suzuki powered
> 701 to weigh less than 633 lbs empty?
>
> Thanks
> Randy
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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Message 3
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I am now working on the canopy and I mirror the comments before me that this is
one of the more frustrating parts to work on. But I am chugging on and making
progress.
For the outside flashing piece it is attached to the frame, but extends past the
frame to the aft edge of the canopy bubble. On the prints and pictures I have
seen, there appears to be no fasteners attaching the flashing to the canopy
as it extends to the aft edge. I can't imagine just the rubber seal strip being
the only thing to hold it down. How have you guys kept this piece from flapping
in the breeze?
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, working on final assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178105#178105
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Subject: | Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of the mandatory
"Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which is the "official"
maneuvering speed for the CH601XL.
Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 kts...
What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations?
Thank you for any information!
Cheers Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178113#178113
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Subject: | Canopy Question, Too |
Dave,
With my canopy, that corner of the canopy presses against the side of the fuselage,
so there is no "flapping" in the breeze. The rubber seal seems to hold just
fine.
However, I have another canopy problem. (My canopy is completed) During assembly,
I used the latches frequently, with no problem. Now, when the canopy is up,
the latching mechanism works just fine. With the canopy down and latched,
most of the time I can't unlatch it with the outside turn button. I have drilled
holes in the frame to get emergency access to the latches. I can open them
through those holes. Obviously, that is not an acceptable method, long term.
Any suggestions?
Jay in Dallas CH 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
"DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> wrote:
>
>I am now working on the canopy and I mirror the comments before me that this is
one of the more frustrating parts to work on. But I am chugging on and making
progress.
>
>For the outside flashing piece it is attached to the frame, but extends past the
frame to the aft edge of the canopy bubble. On the prints and pictures I have
seen, there appears to be no fasteners attaching the flashing to the canopy
as it extends to the aft edge. I can't imagine just the rubber seal strip being
the only thing to hold it down. How have you guys kept this piece from flapping
in the breeze?
>
>Thanks,
>
>--------
>David Gallagher
>601 XL, working on final assembly.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178105#178105
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
maauvering speeds and V speeds are posted on the cover of your PLans. Manauvering
speed is 103 mph.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Martin Pohl <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
>Sent: Apr 21, 2008 8:18 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed
>
>
>My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of the
mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which is the "official"
maneuvering speed for the CH601XL.
>
>Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 kts...
What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations?
>
>Thank you for any information!
>
>Cheers Martin
>
>--------
>Martin Pohl
>Zodiac XL QBK
>8645 Jona, Switzerland
>www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178113#178113
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
I guess I messed something.. I dont recall ever seeing a placarded
manuvering speed....
How is it marked on your glass ?? Mine is green to 130 and then goes yellow
to 150 then RED line.....
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:18 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed
>
> My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of
> the mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which
> is the "official" maneuvering speed for the CH601XL.
>
> Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90
> kts... What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations?
>
> Thank you for any information!
>
> Cheers Martin
>
> --------
> Martin Pohl
> Zodiac XL QBK
> 8645 Jona, Switzerland
> www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178113#178113
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
While I haven't trimmed my flashing down yet to match the rear of the canopy it
does seem that glue and the rubber seal will be the way to go. The main reason
is clearance between the canopy and the fuselage skin.
BTW. I have had to trim the rear of the canopy at least an inch and a little more
near the bottom of the rear edge. I seem to have made the rear arch a little
short and the canopy was spreading when I tried to close it.
FYI a Drammel tool with 60 grit seems to work real well at this. but it does look
like it snowed under my plane.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178130#178130
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Subject: | Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. |
Hi, Paul a(nd List),
I wholeheartedly agree with your post of concerning operation into IMC.
Been there, done that. I wonder if the large percentage of instrument-rated
pilots not surviving may have something to do with what you described, the
difference being that you had someone aboard that could do the
traffic-avoidance part while you flew the gauges. My experience is that it
is harder to divide your attention between inside and outside than it is to
fly completely on the gauges.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
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Subject: | Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for |
701
dougsnash wrote:
> Randy, you can set your gross weight at anything you
> like within reason. You don't have to use the
> additional GWT but it will take care of the math issue
> for you. I would recommend using 1200lb as your GWT
>
Does that apply if I want to build in the amateur-built category as well, or only
if I build under the ultralight category? I heard somewhere that it is difficult
in Canada to get approval to increase your gross weight above what the designer
intended if you build in the amateur built category.
Thanks
Randy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178137#178137
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Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
Another thing I am struggling with is the overall height of the canopy. I got
mine from Todd's Canopies and it definitely comes oversize. After sitting it
on the airframe, I liked the headroom it gave without any trimming of the forward
and aft ends. At this height, it looks to higher than anything I have seen
pictures of. The biggest construction downside of this is that there is very
little canopy for the outside flashing to attach to at the aft end. Has anybody
else who kept their canopy on the high side have any problems with it?
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, working on final assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178143#178143
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Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
Dave,
On this point, looks are secondary. Best to find out what your "real" headroom
requirements are before doing any cutting down. Pad your seats (if you don't
already have the final seating in place), put on your cap and headset. Then sit
with the canopy bubble in place. You will notice that the critical clearance
is at and just above your left ear. Mine is a little short here and requires
me to lean a little toward the right. The ZAC bubble is spherical and I assume
that Todd's is the same. An elliptical side to side would be much better, but,
I guess, harder to form. Bottom line, we have to deal with the lack of headroom
where we really need it. IMHO on the XL, there is no such thing as too
much headroom.
Jay in Dallas
"DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> wrote:
>
>Another thing I am struggling with is the overall height of the canopy. I got
mine from Todd's Canopies and it definitely comes oversize. After sitting it
on the airframe, I liked the headroom it gave without any trimming of the forward
and aft ends. At this height, it looks to higher than anything I have seen
pictures of. The biggest construction downside of this is that there is very
little canopy for the outside flashing to attach to at the aft end. Has anybody
else who kept their canopy on the high side have any problems with it?
>
>Thanks,
>
>--------
>David Gallagher
>601 XL, working on final assembly.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178143#178143
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for |
701
I am refering to the Amateur Built catagory. The
reason I mentioned the Ultralight catagory is purly
for ease of getting a pilot permit/lic. Note that I
said "Reasonable" increase. When I filed my Letter of
Intent with the MD-RA I listed 1200lbs as my gross
weight and they did not even think twice about it.
Although, I haven't had my final inspection yet so who
knows what will be said at that time.
One other point is that you have to do your Climb Test
at gross weight. Therefore you don't want to get too
carried away.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
Do Not Archive
>
> Does that apply if I want to build in the
> amateur-built category as well, or only if I build
> under the ultralight category? I heard somewhere
> that it is difficult in Canada to get approval to
> increase your gross weight above what the designer
> intended if you build in the amateur built category.
>
> Thanks
> Randy
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
Another quick issue on working with the canopy. I don't remember where you live
Dave but if it is still cold there wait to do anything. The minimum temp is 70F
but the warmer the better. If I had it to do over again I'd wait until the
middle of the summer to work on mine and I live in South Arkansas where it is
HOT.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178156#178156
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Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
Gig,
I am in Cincinnati, Oh. I waited until now to even order my bubble for the very
reason of temperature. It seems like summer will never come since it has remained
cool here a lot longer than normal.
I have sat under the bubble, but need to do it a few more times to make my final
decision. I do not remember having any issues in the AMD 601XL I flew a few
weeks ago. Although at 6' 0", I do not consider myself tall, I have some tall
friends and a brother who is 6'6" and it would be nice to accommodate them also.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, working on final assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178160#178160
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
Maneuvering speed is not marked on the ASI. I suspect that European regs may require
a placard - FAA does not.
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178166#178166
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Subject: | Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight |
for 701
Randy...
If you belong to COPA... they have guidelines for Amateur aircraft and Ultra lights...
to access the guidelines you have to be a member of COPA!
R.D.(Ron) Leclerc
CH701 Plans(Scrap) Builder #7-6699
Porsche Power Belted Redrive
Winnipeg, MB Canada
infow@mts.net
4/21/2008 12:09:01 PM
***************************************
This E-Mail scanned with AVG Anti-Virus Ver: 7.5!
***************************************
The COPA Guide to Amateur-Builts
13th Edition September 2006
Copyright Canadian Owners and Pilots Association 2006
The Canadian Owners & Pilots Association
207 - 75 Albert Street, Ottawa, Ontario K1P 5E7 Canada
Tel: 613-236-4901 Fax: 613-236-8646 Email: copa@copanational.org
Website: www.copanational.org
Contents
Introduction
Scope Of This Guide
Reviewing The Rules CAR STD 507 Appendix C
Canadian versus US Amateur-Built Rules
The 51% Rule
Mass Production Of Aircraft
Selecting A Design
Fly Before You Buy!
Construction Times
Options - Design Your Own Versus Plans Versus Kits Versus Buying Used
Aeroplanes
Gliders
Powered Gliders
Helicopters
Gyroplanes
Gyrogliders
Balloons
Airships
Some Warnings About Designs
Fixed Pitch Helicopters
Pressurized Turbine?
MD-RAs Role
Construction Outside Canada
Why do Some Aircraft Not Get Finished?
Documentation
Weight And Balance
Airworthiness Directives (ADs)
Design Changes
Installing Parts
Signing the Maintenance Release
Parts Warrantees
Registration & Markings
Insurance
Work-in-Progress Insurance
Taxes (At Registration And Importation)
Flight Requirements
Test Flying
Initial Operating Restrictions
Final Operating Restrictions
IFR Amateur-Builts
Aerobatic Amateur-Builts
Maintaining Your Amateur-Built
Repairs and Modifications to Amateur-Builts
Handheld Fire Extinguishers
Licences to Fly Amateur-Builts
Type Ratings
Canadian Amateur-Builts In The USA
Selling Your Amateur-Built
Buying a Used Amateur-Built
Importing an Amateur-Built
Join a Club
Aircraft Type Clubs
Amateur-Builts Versus Ultralights
Building An Ultralight Kit As An Amateur-Built
Can Certified Aircraft Become Amateur-Builts?
Can Existing Ultralights Become Amateur-Builts?
Appendix A - References For Building
Appendix B - Diary of an Amateur Test Pilot by Ken Beanlands
Appendix C - Regulations for Amateur-built Aircraft
CAR STD 507 Appendix C
CAR STD 507 Appendix D
Transport Canada Maintenance Policy Letter 13
The COPA Guide to Amateur-Builts
:-{
:-{
:-{ dougsnash wrote:
:-{:-{ Randy, you can set your gross weight at anything you like
:-{:-{ within reason. You don't have to use the
:-{:-{ additional GWT but it will take care of the math issue for
:-{:-{ you. I would recommend using 1200lb as your GWT
:-{:-{
:-{
:-{ Does that apply if I want to build in the amateur-built category
:-{ as well, or only if I build under the ultralight category? I
:-{ heard somewhere that it is difficult in Canada to get approval to
:-{ increase your gross weight above what the designer intended if
:-{ you build in the amateur built category.
:-{
:-{ Thanks
:-{ Randy
:-{
:-{
:-{ Read this topic online here:
:-{
:-{ http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178137#178137
:-{
:-{
:-{ = - The Zenith-List Email Forum -
:-{ much much more:
:-{ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
:-{ > http://forums.matronics.com
:-{ your generous support!
:-{ -> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Subject: | Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. |
Hello Paul,
Well, in fact we are talking about similar things, the big problem with getting
into IFR conditions is that this conditions build up stress in the pilot
the moment the visibility is lost, if the pilot is not proficient enough he can
easy get panic, desoriented and the next step is a spin... Your experience
is the perfect example of "friendly" conditions (no storm, turbulence or wind).
We all have to know the fact that aviation is learning, practice, and lots
of fun. I also hope that when eventually there is the chance in this list,
to learn a little more about flying our airplanes, someone gets the idea.
Just to do a little clarify before I forget, here also every pilot has to learn
to use the instruments as referernce, also needs to fly by feeling, (instructor
covers the instruments, and he needs to fly coordinate at diferent speeds
and the normal manuvers, but with time, if the pilot just flys around (not
working out its own proficiency) he will loose ability.
Just a Quiz: Everyone (just think for yourself, no need to answer to the list)
When was the last time you greased a good landing exactly in the numbers (or
the point you chosed)? With some crosswind and/or turbulence?
If we always do our landings (flying , navigation, etc) as practice, as if the
instructor or inspector was in the right seat. In the rare case of a deadstick
landing, weather or need to divert an airport etc. we will have a better
chance to save our live (and passenger).
This is the great thing about aviation, we need to be self resposibles, an look
ourselfs for proficiency, FAA or whatever Authorites rule in our country,
can give you a ticket, but "Aviation Rules" will harm or kill any of us
if we fail...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
Hi Gary,
I always respect your opinion, but on this point we are going to disagree.
I believe "flight solely by reference to instruments" is a capability
each plane and pilot should have. Equipping the plane is easy. All
you need is a single gyro instrument. It doesn't matter which
instrument type you choose, but I think the turn and bank is the best
choice. Others would choose another instrument and that is OK. The
hardest part of this need is the skill of the pilot. In the USA, all
pilots except for Sport Pilots must demonstrate the ability to fly
solely by reference to instruments to get their license. With the
new rule change, even Sport Pilots must receive some training in this
skill. The problem is that most pilots don't retain this skill for a
long time.
Your idea about depending on autopilot for this need is OK. I prefer
to keep the pilot capable of doing this task, but an autopilot can
save the plane and all its occupants in the sad event that the pilot
is incapable of simple instrument flight.
Let me tell the story of the first time I had to fly on instruments
in the real world. I was departing Norfolk, VA and planned my flight
to be completely over land except for the 1/2 mile or so of water
between Norfolk and the main land. All was well until I got
airborne. Then the tower controller ordered me to continue my climb
on the runway heading to allow an inbound airline flight access to
his runway. He was flying down the middle of Chesapeake Bay, and I
wound up flying over the water toward the eastern shore of the
Del-Mar-Va peninsula. There was around 8 miles visibility, and I had
no trouble seeing the DC-9 below me and off to the left a little as
he performed his instrument approach. The problem came when I was
released to continue my own navigation and turned west to cross the
bay. At that time the whole world looked grey. The sky was grey,
the water was grey, and the land ahead was invisible since it was
about 20 miles away. I had plenty of altitude (around 5,000 feet)
and could see plenty of distance to avoid traffic, so it was
perfectly legal VFR. I just couldn't see anything out in front of
the plane to keep myself oriented.
I found myself varying heading from my chosen one and had trouble
keeping the plane going the way I wanted. So I asked my wife, who
was sitting in the copilot's seat to watch out for traffic and went
completely on the instruments. This was difficult to do well, but I
was able to stabilize my heading and maintain altitude and made the
crossing with no further problem. After a couple of minutes I could
see the land on the other side of the water and the problem was over.
I know there are many pilots flying for recreation that would not
have survived that incident. My goal with these posts is to improve
the ability of Zenith pilots so they are not among the losers in this
kind of incident. The required skill is not very hard to get and
maintain. It takes a little bit of training and a little bit of
recurring practice to maintain. Since the reward is survival in this
kind of situation which can and does happen from time to time no
matter how hard we try to avoid it, I feel the small effort to train
for this event is worth it.
I was surprised to learn that the fatality rate for pilots accidently
entering IMC is nearly as high for instrument rated pilots as for
those without instrument ratings. I am not sure why this is. Of
course the instrument rated pilots have (or had) the necessary
skills. Still, many of them (about 50% over the years) still fail to
control the airplane successfully when faced with unplanned
IMC. Perhaps they panic. Perhaps they just can't adjust to the
unexpected and unplanned need to switch to complete instrument flight
and get out of the situation. Whatever the reason, this situation is
almost as likely to kill instrument rated pilots as unrated ones.
If my comments get a few of our list members to work on this skill
and just one survives an unexpected need to fly on instruments then I
will feel a great success. If all I do is annoy a few list members
with my point of view, then perhaps not much has been lost.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 10:54 PM 4/19/2008, you wrote:
>I know that in a cross country flight when weather gets
>marginal, the "get-home-itis" pushes the pilot to believe he can
>make it -at least to the next airport in the plan- but without
>enough IFR practice is suicide.
>How much IFR practice can a week end pilot get, if he probably flys
>around 50 hrs a year all together? Probably an active comercial or
>airline pilot, flying a Sport Pilot for fun could have chance, not
>the rest of us...
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
Thank you for the link to the plan's first page. The 103 mph correspond to the
90kts indicated on my plans.
There is not only a european requirement, but also a FAA-requirement for a placard
on the instrument panel showing the maneuvering speed: see FAR23.1563.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=4e6cf388cbe492dba14c52d456ca0fe7&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:1.0.1.3.10.7.105.25&idno=14
Cheers Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178174#178174
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Subject: | Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight |
for 701
Some more Randy...
An exert from the COPA guidelines:
Ron
*****
Amateur-Builts Versus Ultralights
Many lighter amateur-built airplane designs can also be built and registered
as ultralights.
If the aircraft is under 1200 lbs gross weight and has a Landing Configuration
Stall Speed (VSO) of 39 knots or less then it can be built as a basic
ultralight aeroplane (BULA) instead of amateur-built. There are pros and cons
to this approach:
Pros:
BULAs do not to be inspected by any outside agency, thus saving money on
inspections
BULAs do not have any maintenance standards
BULAs do not have any design standards
BULAs do not have to carry some equipment that amateur-builts do, like:
o ELTs
o Operating checklist or placards
o Aeronautical charts and publications
o Fire extinguisher
o Timepiece
o Flashlight
o First aid kit
BULAs do not have to meet VFR instrument and equipment requirements
BULAs can be used commercially for flight training and hang glider towing
BULAs have simplified paperwork requirements C of R only required, no Special
C of A or logbooks required
BULAs can be purchased new and completely assembled no 51% rule
BULAs do not need to comply with Destination Fuel requirements (destination
plus 30 minutes worth of fuel)
BULAs are not required to carry survival equipment
BULAs do not need to file an Annual Airworthiness Information Report
Cons:
BULAs cannot carry passengers (however two pilots can fly together, provided
they both have licences that would let them fly the aircraft. Also a student
and instructor can fly together)
You need to wear a helmet in a BULA
BULAs have restrictions on airspace they cannot be flown in controlled terminal
airspace.
Another alternative is that some kit aircraft under 1232 lbs and with a VSO of
39 knots or less can be built as an advanced ultralight aircraft (AULA), if the
kit manufacturer has declared that the aircraft complies with the LAMAC publication
Design Standards for Advanced Ultralight Aeroplanes.
As in the case of the BULAs there are pros and cons in comparison to amateur-builts:
Pros:
AULAs do not need to be inspected by an outside agency, unless the factory
requires it (some do and there is usually a fee if they do)
AULAs have simple maintenance standards (they must follow the factory approved
standard)
AULAs do not require logbooks, just maintenance records
AULAs do not have to carry some equipment that amateur-builts do, like:
o ELTs
o Operating checklist or placards
o Aeronautical charts and publications
o Fire extinguisher
o Timepiece
o Flashlight
o First aid kit
AULAs can be used commercially for flight training and hang glider towing
AULAs have simplified paperwork requirements C of R only required, no Special
C of A or logbooks required
AULAs can be purchased new and completely assembled no 51% rule
AULAs do not need to comply with Destination Fuel requirements (destination
plus 30 minutes worth of fuel)
AULAs are not required to carry survival equipment
AULAs do not need to file an Annual Airworthiness Information Report
Cons:
Modifications require written authority from the kit manufacturer if they
go out of business then no further modifications are allowed
AULAs must be built from a kit or sold completed, no building from plans
allowed
Manufacturers may issue Mandatory Actions similar to ADs for certified aircraft.
For more information on ultralights see The COPA Guide to Ultralights.
Building An Ultralight Kit As An Amateur-Built
Most aircraft kits that fit the ultralight category can also be built
as amateur-built aircraft. Since the amateur-built rules allow bigger and heavier
aircraft than the ultralight category, any kit that would qualify as an
ultralight will fit the basic amateur-built definition.
Some of these kits will also require a 51% determination, if they have not been
assessed at the factory request before. See the section on 51% determination
for more information.
Many Canadian kit manufacturers produce different versions of their
kits for the ultralight and amateur-built markets. These ones are easy to assess;
they will usually require no changes to be built as amateur-builts.
Other manufacturers produce their aircraft strictly for the Canadian ultralight
category. These may need some serious changes to fit them into the amateur-built
category. The Canadian amateur-built rules and construction practices differ
from normal ultralight construction methods and so there will probably be a
requirement that some of the materials be changed to fit the aircraft into the
amateur-built category
:-{
:-{
:-{ dougsnash wrote:
:-{:-{ Randy, you can set your gross weight at anything you like
:-{:-{ within reason. You don't have to use the
:-{:-{ additional GWT but it will take care of the math issue for
:-{:-{ you. I would recommend using 1200lb as your GWT
:-{:-{
:-{
:-{ Does that apply if I want to build in the amateur-built category
:-{ as well, or only if I build under the ultralight category? I
:-{ heard somewhere that it is difficult in Canada to get approval to
:-{ increase your gross weight above what the designer intended if
:-{ you build in the amateur built category.
:-{
:-{ Thanks
:-{ Randy
:-{
:-{
:-{ Read this topic online here:
:-{
:-{ http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178137#178137
:-{
:-{
:-{ = - The Zenith-List Email Forum -
:-{ much much more:
:-{ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
:-{ > http://forums.matronics.com
:-{ your generous support!
:-{ -> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
23.1 Applicability.
top
(a) This part prescribes airworthiness standards for the issue of type certificates,
and changes to those certificates, for airplanes in the normal, utility,
acrobatic, and commuter categories.
(b) Each person who applies under Part 21 for such a certificate or change must
show compliance with the applicable requirements of this part.
E-AB and E-LSA builders, by definition, do no apply under part 21 for a "type certificate"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178192#178192
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Subject: | TruTrak Autopilot for Zenith |
With the current string of e-mails discussing potential safety enhancements
with an autopilot if you unexpectedly stray into IMC, some of you might be
interested in the ad I recently placed in Barnstormers for a new TruTrak
Digitrak (roll axis) autopilot. It includes the 2 1/4" unit, servo and Zenith
hardware kit. Priced at $200 under list. Check it out at barnstormers.com under
Experimental/Zenith or Avionics/autopilot. Thanks.
Doug
Do not archive
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Subject: | Re: Death of my Harley |
I just joined your forum and thought I'd address some of the facts stated here.
I'm the Director of Sales & Marketing at Rotary Aircraft Engines. We are the
only licensed worldwide distributer of the aviation version of this engine that
Rotamax is developing. We currently have the Rotamax engine flying in the Sadler
Vampire and the Sparrowhawk Gyrocopter. We will soon have one installed in
a Sport Copter II, the Outback 2 and the Sport Hornet. The folks that make the
Sport Hornet are at the Rotamax factory as I speak testing the engine on their
aircraft with various props and in different configurations. We've had a lot
of interest from many Zenith 601 & 701 builders regarding our engine, so it's
good news to hear that you're working on building a FWF kit for this engine
to work with those planes. Please contact me--we'd love to do what we can to
assist.
[quote="jerry(at)jerryhey.com"]The future is now. At Sun n Fun you will be able
to see real engines
running and torn down. They have engines running on the dyno and
other test beds such as a motorcycle and RTV that I think you will be
able to see perform at Sun n Fun. I don't know if they will have an
engine in a flying airplane but that is coming very soon. Jerry
On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Gig Giacona wrote:
[quote]
>
The Rotomax might well be a great engine some day but I'd have to
say that day is probably well off in the future. If you look at the
pictures on their website they are all still computer generated and
not photos of real engines.
jerry(at)jerryhey.com wrote:
> I agree with what Mark has said but a new player is about to be
> added to the engine list that may change everything.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172515#172515
[/quote][/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178213#178213
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Subject: | Change topic to RotaMax for 701 and 601. |
The Rotamax 2 rotor will be a worthy competitor for the Rotex and
Jabiru. It will deliver 120 hp at peak and 100 hp continuous and the
firewall forward package will be less than 200 lbs. This engine is
capable of much more power and is just loafing at 120 hp. Jerry
On Apr 21, 2008, at 3:13 PM, monte(a)rotaryae(dot)com wrote:
> >
>
> I just joined your forum and thought I'd address some of the facts
> stated here. I'm the Director of Sales & Marketing at Rotary
> Aircraft Engines. We are the only licensed worldwide distributer of
> the aviation version of this engine that Rotamax is developing. We
> currently have the Rotamax engine flying in the Sadler Vampire and
> the Sparrowhawk Gyrocopter. We will soon have one installed in a
> Sport Copter II, the Outback 2 and the Sport Hornet. The folks that
> make the Sport Hornet are at the Rotamax factory as I speak testing
> the engine on their aircraft with various props and in different
> configurations. We've had a lot of interest from many Zenith 601 &
> 701 builders regarding our engine, so it's good news to hear that
> you're working on building a FWF kit for this engine to work with
> those planes. Please contact me--we'd love to do what we can to
> assist.
>
>
> [quote="jerry(at)jerryhey.com"]The future is now. At Sun n Fun you
> will be able to see real engines
> running and torn down. They have engines running on the dyno and
> other test beds such as a motorcycle and RTV that I think you will be
> able to see perform at Sun n Fun. I don't know if they will have an
> engine in a flying airplane but that is coming very soon. Jerry
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> [quote]
>>
>
> The Rotomax might well be a great engine some day but I'd have to
> say that day is probably well off in the future. If you look at the
> pictures on their website they are all still computer generated and
> not photos of real engines.
>
>
> jerry(at)jerryhey.com wrote:
>> I agree with what Mark has said but a new player is about to be
>> added to the engine list that may change everything.
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172515#172515
>
>
> [/quote][/quote]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178213#178213
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
Sabrina, thank you for the info. I didn't know that...
Nevertheless here in Europe (or at least in Switzerland), we have to install this
VA-placard before showing it to the aviation authority.
Cheers Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178220#178220
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Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
I just used 3M weather strip adhesive between the flashing and the
canopy and used the same stuff to glue on the seal strip. I haven't had
any trouble with it.
For the front flashing, I used some 3 automotive trim tape between the
flashing and the canopy along the top edge to fill the gap that wanted
to appear there.
>
> I am now working on the canopy and I mirror the comments before me that this
is one of the more frustrating parts to work on. But I am chugging on and making
progress.
>
> For the outside flashing piece it is attached to the frame, but extends past
the frame to the aft edge of the canopy bubble. On the prints and pictures I
have seen, there appears to be no fasteners attaching the flashing to the canopy
as it extends to the aft edge. I can't imagine just the rubber seal strip
being the only thing to hold it down. How have you guys kept this piece from
flapping in the breeze?
>
> Thanks,
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
The information I received from ZAC was 110 mph (96 kts) but mine is an
early kit, that information may be for the original gross weight of 1400
lbs. The maneuvering speed goes down with decreasing weight.
In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just
must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.
>
> My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of the
mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which is the "official"
maneuvering speed for the CH601XL.
>
> Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 kts...
What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations?
>
> Thank you for any information!
>
> Cheers Martin
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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Subject: | Re: Death of my Harley |
Well Monte, I strongly suggest you guys need to update the pictures of the engines on your home page http://www.rotamax.net/ . Because when I see computer generated pictures of airplane parts I think vaporware.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178227#178227
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
Strange... Looking at the front page of my planes there is no maneuvering speed
called out. Just Top, Cruise, Stall and Vne.
1st Edition 04/02.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178230#178230
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Subject: | 601XL Project for Sale - pictures |
I know I posted this last week, but I have more information and pictures. This
is not your average scratch build project. All the parts are CNC cut and many
are pre-drilled. I am asking $3000 for all. Much more invested. Check out
the pictures:
http://www.johnsplane.com/project/page1.htm
Original post
After starting this project from a tail kit, I decided to switch to scratch building.
I remember hearing Mark Townsend say scratch build because you love building.
Dont scratch build to save money. If you do, you will go nuts! Well, truer
words have never been spoken. This scratch building thing is for people with
more patients than me. Also, I have decided I really want a float plane. I
am going to purchase a kit that is a little better suited to that.
If you want a big jump on scratch building, let me know. I have the following and
more:
Corvair engine core inspected by William Wynne at Corvair day at the Zenith factory.
He said it looks good but it needs a valve job.
Corvair motor mount purchased from William Wynne at Corvair day.
Empennage assembled from Kit
Almost all sheet metal parts. Most parts already cut out and formed.
Forming blocks.
Corvair conversion manual.
Zenith Zodiac 601XL plans.
Homebuilt help scratch building basics DVD.
You really only need the extruded aluminum and a lot of patience to build this airframe. If you are really interested, contact me off list at johnrhines(at)gmail.com. I have some pictures on my website at www.johnsplane.com or I can send you more detailed pics.
Thanks,
John
Do not archive.
--------
John Hines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178232#178232
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
Either a operating manual or placards may be used to provide data such a maneuvering
speed. The manner of compliance is specified by the type certificate. For
example, the Cessna 172 only calls for displaying maneuvering speed starting
with 1971 models, stating: This airplane must be operated in compliance with
the operating limitations stated
in the form of placards, markings, and manuals.
MAXIMUMS
Normal Category
Maneuvering speed (CAS) 122 mph (106 knots)
Gross weight 2300 lbs.
I don't know if it was on a placard or in the manual after 1971. My 1968 172 had
it only in the manual.
The attached info is from the XL plans dated 3/06.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178240#178240
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/v_speeds_630.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. |
I share the many opinions that some instrument training should be required
for S.P.s. After all, the proposal is only that the pilot candidate receive one
hour of training. No pass / fail, and its not included on the test. Can be
done in any aircraft because its only dual. Like chicken soup, it can't hurt. Its
also reasonable (with proper certification and equipment) to depart IFR in a
light sport into improving conditions. I checked my log book a while back and
found that every flight over 500 miles had at least a few minutes of weather
time logged. Much of that likely not really required. No instrument training
was required when I soloed years ago. That was on a CAA student permit. When I
took my private test, my CFI informed me that the FAA was running things now
and I had to demonstrate instrument ability for the man. The familiar Piper J-3
now had a T&B and a VSI installed. I even got the front seat for a change. A
few years ago, I began to doubt my instrument ability. I realized that at the
time all my flying was being done "coupled up" to the flight director. I
shamelessly still logged the instrument time, however. My doubts went away each
time
I went off to the Flight Safety simulator. I got to hand fly her to the
runway with 100 & 1/4 mi vis with most of the A/C inop and on fire. The sim
instructor than offered to turn day into night for me so I could get my three night
landings logged. Still 100 ovc & 1/4 mile. Instrument flying is like riding a
bike, just harder to put cards in the spokes. A wing leveler would be a plus in
my 601XL, but I'll pass on that. I've got most of the "sacred six" flight
instruments on hand and I'll still plan trips over 500 miles. I'm going with
steam gauges in spite of my years in glass cockpits and for good reason. I also
plan to stay out of trouble. I'm retired now with no schedule. My wife has a
special way of saying "Just what do you think you're doing?" One of my friends
says that he always uses his outstanding judgment to avoid those situations that
may require his awesome skills.
Bob
601XL/Lyc Do not archive
**************
Need a new ride? Check out the largest
site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
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Subject: | Re: recent accident |
Here's my attempt, ala rvproject.
'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair'
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/
The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time.
There are duplicates, found in more than 1 table,
I did not merge the datasets.
The NSTB queries look at 'Make/Model'. I did take
a look for Zenith, Zodiac and Zenair in the narrative
and didn't see more hits. If you know of other ways
to query the NSTB database please let me know.
Also, if you know of databases other than the US NSTB
database that I could include, let me know - and if
you know the queries that I should run, even better.
Joe E @ BFI
CH601XL 505 hours
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, PatrickW wrote:
> Anybody know if anyone's put together something like this to track
> for Zenith planes? http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.html
> - Pat
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Subject: | Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. |
Good book for Sport (or any VFR) pilots: "IFR for VFR Pilots, An Exercise in
Survival" by Richard L. Taylor.
-- Craig
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Subject: | Re: recent accident |
Damn fine work Joe.
I just clicked one at random, http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070726X01018&key=1
and noticed that he had some bad fuel in the plane.
This should remind those of us that are in the late part of the building cycle
that it might not be a bad idea to drain the fuel if is has been in there a while
and do our test flights with fresh gas.
xl(at)prosody.org wrote:
> Here's my attempt, ala rvproject.
> 'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair'
> http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/
> The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time.
>
> There are duplicates, found in more than 1 table,
> I did not merge the datasets.
>
> The NSTB queries look at 'Make/Model'. I did take
> a look for Zenith, Zodiac and Zenair in the narrative
> and didn't see more hits. If you know of other ways
> to query the NSTB database please let me know.
>
> Also, if you know of databases other than the US NSTB
> database that I could include, let me know - and if
> you know the queries that I should run, even better.
>
> Joe E @ BFI
> CH601XL 505 hours
>
>
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, PatrickW wrote:
>
> >
> > Anybody know if anyone's put together something like this to track
> > for Zenith planes? http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.html
> > - Pat
> >
> >
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178265#178265
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Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
Did everyone know that ZAC now has an exclusive agreement with Todon
canopies so now you can only buy them from ZAC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:17 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Question
>
> I am now working on the canopy and I mirror the comments before me that
> this is one of the more frustrating parts to work on. But I am chugging
> on and making progress.
>
> For the outside flashing piece it is attached to the frame, but extends
> past the frame to the aft edge of the canopy bubble. On the prints and
> pictures I have seen, there appears to be no fasteners attaching the
> flashing to the canopy as it extends to the aft edge. I can't imagine
> just the rubber seal strip being the only thing to hold it down. How have
> you guys kept this piece from flapping in the breeze?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, working on final assembly.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178105#178105
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: recent accident |
Nice job Joe... This data is real hard to collect and you are on the rig
ht track. I know of at least two 801's that crashed and I know one is in
the NTSB records. Thats the Mitchell 801 that disintigrated over Nicola
s California a few years back, fatal.. Also Jim Frisby crashed his 801
in Palmer Ak, not hurt too bad... I am guessing that beyond entering the
three Z's try just the model numbers, like 601 , 701 , 801 and add thos
e to the list. Still, my hats off to ya since I can barely turn on my pu
ter.. Thanks again
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- xl <xl@prosody.org> wrote:
Here's my attempt, ala rvproject.
'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair'
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/
The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time.
There are duplicates, found in more than 1 table,
I did not merge the datasets.
The NSTB queries look at 'Make/Model'. I did take
a look for Zenith, Zodiac and Zenair in the narrative
and didn't see more hits. If you know of other ways
to query the NSTB database please let me know.
Also, if you know of databases other than the US NSTB
database that I could include, let me know - and if
you know the queries that I should run, even better.
Joe E @ BFI
CH601XL 505 hours
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, PatrickW wrote:
> Anybody know if anyone's put together something like this to track
> for Zenith planes? http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.html
> - Pat
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
_____________________________________________________________
Victim of medical malpractice? Click here to find an expert lawyer to h
elp pursue your case.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vEhhz8edkPRKUggV47
rYtDeMIVsImpta1Gauqewk6ZEuQP4/
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Subject: | Re: 601HDS: Adding a cutout over the leading edge wing tanks |
Mitch Hodges wrote:
> ...so I'll go with that once I get confirmation that it is Ok for the HDS wing,
although I don't know why it wouldn't be.
I said I would post a follow-up once I got confirmation from the factory. Caleb
basically confirmed that the skins should overlap the ribs and share the same
set of holes through both skins and the ribs. He also indicated that using
A5s was not necessary since there was no increase in loads.
So, I will trim the factory nose skin to fit from S8 to the wing tip and from the
added tank rib to the inboard edge. I'll have fabricate a new "tank skin"
to replace the gap and all will be well. In fact, I'm guessing this will make
dealing with the tank install easier.
Now the question is whether I retro fit the other wing or until if/when there is
an issue with the tank. That's a question for another day.
Thanks to all that responded.
--------
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Wings Under Perpetual Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178290#178290
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Subject: | Re: recent accident |
If you download the entire FAA aircraft registration database (a 39 MB zip
file from the link below) you get a set of files. One of those files
(ACFTREF.csv) maps "manufacturer" and "model" names to an arbitrary code
number.
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_reg
istry/releasable_aircraft_download/
If you search the list of model names for 601, 701, 801 (and 750!) and
manually eliminate the obvious non-Zenith planes you get the following 214
unique names:
601 CH
601 HDS
601 XL
601 XL ZODIAC
601HD
601HDS
601XL
701 ZENITH
BEACHY-ZENITH CH701
BH 701
CH .701
CH 601 HD
CH 601 HD ZODIAC
CH 601 HDS
CH 601 XL
CH 601 XL RTF
CH 601 ZODIAC
CH 701
CH 701 S T O L
CH 701 SP
CH 701 STOL
CH 701/U
CH 701SJ
CH 801
CH 801 ZENITH AIR
CH-601 HDS
CH-601 XL
CH-601-HD ZODIAC
CH-601-HDS
CH-601XL
CH-701
CH-701 (STOL)
CH-701 SP
CH-701 STOL
CH-701-A
CH-801
CH601 HD
CH601 HDS
CH601 HDS ZODIAC
CH601-HDS
CH601HD
CH601HDS
CH601HDS-ZODIAC
CH601XL
CH601XL SLSA
CH601XLI SLSA
CH701
CH701SP
CH801
DEVINE/ZENITH 601HDS
FREW ZODIAC CH601 XL
FRICANO ZODIAC-601
G-801 GRINVALDS
HAAS 801
JUHL-ZODIAC CH601XL
MARTIN LM-701
MBCH.601
MUELLER-CH701
MUELLER-ZENITH CH701
MUSSER ZODIAC 601XL
S Z CH 601 HDS
SHERMAN CH-701
SPR ZODIAC CH601 HDS
SPR ZODIAC CH601HDS
STDL CH-701
STOL 701
STOL CH 701
STOL CH 750
STOL CH 801
STOL CH-701
STOL CH-801
STOL CH701
STOL CH801
SUPER ZODIAC 601
SUPER ZODIAC 601HDS
SUPER ZODIAC CH601-H
TROJAN-ZENAIR 601HDS
WILLIAMS 601 HD
Z601XL
Z701
ZEBAUR CG 701
ZENAIR 601 HDS
ZENAIR 601HDTD
ZENAIR 701
ZENAIR CH 601 HD
ZENAIR CH 601 XL
ZENAIR CH 601HD
ZENAIR CH 601XL
ZENAIR CH 701
ZENAIR CH 701 SP
ZENAIR CH 701 STOL
ZENAIR CH 701SP
ZENAIR CH 801
ZENAIR CH-701
ZENAIR CH601
ZENAIR CH601 HDS
ZENAIR CH601 XL
ZENAIR CH601HD
ZENAIR CH601XL
ZENAIR CH701
ZENAIR CH701 SP
ZENAIR CH701 STOL
ZENAIR CH701SP
ZENAIR STOL 701
ZENAIR STOL CH 701
ZENAIR STOL CH-701
ZENAIR STOL CH701
ZENAIR STOL-CH-701
ZENAIR ZODIAC 601 HD
ZENAIR ZODIAC 601HDS
ZENAIRCH701
ZENETH ZODIAC 601 XL
ZENITH 601
ZENITH 601 HD
ZENITH 601 HDS
ZENITH 601 XL
ZENITH 601HD
ZENITH 601HDS
ZENITH 601X ZODIAC
ZENITH 601XL
ZENITH 701
ZENITH 701 STOL
ZENITH 701SP
ZENITH 801
ZENITH ACFT CH-701
ZENITH AIR 601XL
ZENITH AIR CH 701
ZENITH CH 601 HD
ZENITH CH 601 HDS
ZENITH CH 601HDS
ZENITH CH 601XL
ZENITH CH 701
ZENITH CH 801
ZENITH CH-601HD
ZENITH CH-701
ZENITH CH-801
ZENITH CH601 HD
ZENITH CH701
ZENITH CH701-STOL
ZENITH CH801
ZENITH STOL 701CH
ZENITH STOL CH 701
ZENITH STOL CH 801
ZENITH STOL CH-701
ZENITH STOL CH701
ZENITH STOL CH701 SP
ZENITH STOL CH801
ZENITH ZOD CH 601 HD
ZENITH ZODC 601 HDS
ZENITH ZODC CH601HDS
ZENITH ZODIAC 601 HD
ZENITH ZODIAC 601 XL
ZENITH ZODIAC 601HD
ZENITH ZODIAC 601HDS
ZENITH ZODIAC 601XL
ZENITH ZODIAC CH601X
ZENITH ZODIAC-601HDS
ZENITH ZODIACCH601HD
ZENITH ZODIACCH601XL
ZENITH ZODIAK 601XL
ZENITH-STOL CH801
ZENITHAIR 701
ZENITHAIR CH-601 XL
ZENITHAIR CH801
ZENTH ZODIAC CH601HD
ZENTH ZODIAC CH601XL
ZENZIR STOL CH701
ZNAR ZODAC CH 601 HD
ZNH SPR ZODC 601 HDS
ZNITH ZODIAC CH601XL
ZNITH ZODIC CH601HDS
ZNR ZODIAC CH601 HDS
ZNTH CH601 HD ZODIAC
ZNTH ZODIAC CH601 HD
ZNTH ZODIAC CH601HD
ZNTH ZODIAC CH601HDS
ZNTH ZODIC CH601HDS
ZNTH-ZODIAC CH601HDS
ZODIAC 601
ZODIAC 601 HD
ZODIAC 601 HD/HDS
ZODIAC 601 HDS
ZODIAC 601 HDS TRI
ZODIAC 601 XL
ZODIAC 601-HD
ZODIAC 601-HDS
ZODIAC 601HD
ZODIAC 601HDS
ZODIAC 601XL
ZODIAC CH 601
ZODIAC CH 601 HD
ZODIAC CH 601 HDS
ZODIAC CH 601 XL
ZODIAC CH 601-HDS
ZODIAC CH 601HDS
ZODIAC CH 601XL
ZODIAC CH-601 HDS
ZODIAC CH-601-HD
ZODIAC CH-601-HDS
ZODIAC CH-601XL
ZODIAC CH601
ZODIAC CH601 HD
ZODIAC CH601 HDS
ZODIAC CH601 XL
ZODIAC CH601HD
ZODIAC CH601HDS
ZODIAC CH601XL
ZODIAC CH601XL2
ZODIAC HDS-601
ZODIAC XL 601
ZODIAC-CH601XL
ZODIAC/CH 601-HDS
ZODIAK 601 XL
ZODIAT CH 601 HD
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n801bh@netzero.com
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: recent accident
Nice job Joe... This data is real hard to collect and you are on the right
track. I know of at least two 801's that crashed and I know one is in the
NTSB records. Thats the Mitchell 801 that disintigrated over Nicolas
California a few years back, fatal.. Also Jim Frisby crashed his 801 in
Palmer Ak, not hurt too bad... I am guessing that beyond entering the three
Z's try just the model numbers, like 601 , 701 , 801 and add those to the
list. Still, my hats off to ya since I can barely turn on my puter.. Thanks
again
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- xl <xl@prosody.org> wrote:
Here's my attempt, ala rvproject.
'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair'
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/
The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time.
There are duplicates, found in more than 1 table,
I did not merge the datasets.
The NSTB queries look at 'Make/Model'. I did take
a look for Zenith, Zodiac and Zenair in the narrative
and didn't see more hits. If you know of other ways
to query the NSTB database please let me know.
Also, if you know of databases other than the US NSTB
database that I could include, let me know - and if
you know the queries that I should run, even better.
Joe E @ BFI
CH601XL 505 hours
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, PatrickW wrote:
> Anybody know if anyone's put together something like this to track
> for Zenith planes?
http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.ht========================bsp; - The
Zenith-List Em==============================================
_____________________________________________________________
Victim of medical malpractice? Click here to find an expert
<http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2222/fc/Ioyw6i4vEhhz8edkPRKUggV47rYt
DeMIVsImpta1Gauqewk6ZEuQP4/> lawyer to help pursue your case.
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Subject: | Re: recent accident |
I've included make/model 801, 701, 601 and amd.
The Palmer, AK incident shows up now in the 801 table.
And there some more 601s + 701s picked up, and that AMD 601XL.
Someday, I may parse the data further, remove duplicates
and rearrange it, but for now....... (you can use your browser's
search function, clumsy, but it works.)
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
> Nice job Joe... This data is real hard to collect and you are on the
right track. I know of at least two 801's that crashed and I know one is
in the NTSB records. Thats the Mitchell 801 that disintigrated over
Nicolas California a few years back, fatal.. Also Jim Frisby crashed his
801 in Palmer Ak, not hurt too bad... I am guessing that beyond entering
the three Z's try just the model numbers, like 601 , 701 , 801 and add
those to the list. Still, my hats off to ya since I can barely turn on my
puter.. Thanks again
> do not archive
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> -- xl <xl@prosody.org> wrote:
> Here's my attempt, ala rvproject.
> 'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair'
> http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/
> The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time.
> ....snip
> Joe E @ BFI
> CH601XL 505 hours
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Subject: | Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've searched the
archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a few times, but is
"low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that said to not skimp on the rivet
gun and expect to pay $200 for a good one...
Any feedback on this?
Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
Regards,
Mike
--------
Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178305#178305
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Subject: | Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Built my entire 601XL with the "cheap" Harbor Freight gun. Worked fine with
just a drop of oil now and then.
George May
601XL 912s 200hrs> Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation?> From:
mwtucker@windstream.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:00:18 -0700> To: zenith-
er@windstream.net>> > I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet
gun... I've searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight
appears a few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes t
hat said to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good on
e...> > Any feedback on this?> > Thanks in advance for your suggestions!> >
Regards,> Mike> > --------> Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit>
> > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtop
========================> _
=============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr
esh_instantaccess_042008
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|
Subject: | Re: Haven't Forgotten New Lists... |
Hi Matt,
No worries, I am looking forward to it, but I think we'll survive...... 601 guys
aren't THAT bad! [Wink] :)
Thanks for the update though.
Kevin
do not archive
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178309#178309
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Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
I purchased mine from Northern Tool Company. It was around $70 and it works fine.
I used the heads from the rivet gun from Zenith in it with no problems.
I think $200 is a little much and im sure you can get a real good one for that
price but others can be had cheeper that will work fine.
Thanks
Gary
----- Original Message ----
From: mwtucker <mwtucker@windstream.net>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:00:18 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation?
I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've searched the
archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a few times, but is
"low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that said to not skimp on the rivet
gun and expect to pay $200 for a good one...
Any feedback on this?
Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
Regards,
Mike
--------
Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178305#178305
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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Subject: | Primer Under Rivet Heads |
At the risk of starting another thread on primers (which I don't intend to do),
I have a question. Almost everybody primes the internal feying surfaces. It
appears though that nobody is priming the external rivet lines before riveting.
Is there a reason that the interfacial surfaces between the rivet head and
the aluminum won't corrode? It would seem to me that a prime place to trap moisture
would be under the rivet heads. Am I overlooking something?
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178311#178311
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|
Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
I ended up getting the gun from ZAC. I was going to go the harbor
freight route, however I didn't want to hassle with manufacturing a nose
piece for my gun. I just spent the $80 and was done with it.
george may wrote:
> Built my entire 601XL with the "cheap" Harbor Freight gun. Worked fine
> with just a drop of oil now and then.
>
> George May
> 601XL 912s 200hrs
>
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation?
> > From: mwtucker@windstream.net
> > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:00:18 -0700
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've
> searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears
> a few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that
> said to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good
> one...
> >
> > Any feedback on this?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> > --------
> > Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178305#178305
> >===========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live
> Messenger.
> <http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Lee Steensland
601XL/Corvair (7637L reserved) Kit/Scratch builder 0.0% complete!
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Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Harbor Freight. 29.95 on sale or $49.95 regular. Works just fine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mwtucker" <mwtucker@windstream.net>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation?
>
> I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've
> searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a
> few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that said
> to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good one...
>
> Any feedback on this?
>
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> --------
> Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178305#178305
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Mine is from HF too, it has not built an airplane , just a rudder and stab. But
I could buy a number of them on sale for 200 bucks. Your will have to make the
special machined head, very easy and about 5 bucks if you have the drill press
( or lath even better) already.
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178312#178312
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Subject: | Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? |
Hey everyone, I am looking for a bit of advice on my rib alignment for my rudder.
I am getting ready to rivet my rudder "skeleton" together this weekend and
noticed that my 3rd rib is approximately 1-2 mm off center. The lip of the
rib actually is recessed a tad on one side and protrudes a tad from the spar on
the other. This my be knit picky or it may not be but I am new at this and
would like to know if this is within the tolerances of the design. I am learning
a great deal about what methods get me the best results right now so I apologize
if this is a dumb question. Thanks in advance,
Andrew [Embarassed]
--------
Andrew Lieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178323#178323
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Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
What PSI do you guys find best for pulling the rivets? I set a few practice ones
with my riveter from zenith at 90 and they back end didn't appear to pull tight
enough?
--------
Andrew Lieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178324#178324
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Subject: | Where did zenair.com go? |
Haven't been able to connect with the zenair.com web site for a couple of days
now. Anybody else having troubles getting their web site to open up? This could
make a guy feel very lonely.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178328#178328
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Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Andrew:
I used 42 psi for A4s and 60 psi for A5s with my excellent Zenith
supplied rivet gun. I didn't want the gun to pull too fast so that it had
time to completely reshape the rivet head.
Mike
601 XL - Rotax FWfwd installation in progress
>
> What PSI do you guys find best for pulling the rivets? I set a few
> practice ones with my riveter from zenith at 90 and they back end didn't
> appear to pull tight enough?
>
> --------
> Andrew Lieser
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178324#178324
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads |
you're not overlooking anything, if you live in a high humidity, polluted
atmosphere, priming is a good thing. jb
> It appears though that nobody is priming the external rivet lines
> before riveting. Is there a reason that the interfacial surfaces between
> the rivet head and the aluminum won't corrode? It would seem to me that a
> prime place to trap moisture would be under the rivet heads. Am I
> overlooking something?
>
> Doug
>
Message 54
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Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
I bought the green one in the ZAC toolkit. Was not happy with it. It's purely
pnuematic, and "harsh".
While visiting Quality Sport Planes in Cloverdale, I struck up a conversation about
riveters with one of the airplane builders, and he let me pull a couple rivets
on a 701 with his HF gun.
Big difference. You put oil in it. I bought one on the spot, and have used it
ever since.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178350#178350
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Subject: | Where did zenair.com go? |
It's not working for me either
do not archive> Subject: Zenith-List: Where did zenair.com go?> From: ccgre
enberg@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:32:33 -0700> To: zenith-list@ma
hoo.com>> > Haven't been able to connect with the zenair.com web site for a
couple of days now. Anybody else having troubles getting their web site to
open up? This could make a guy feel very lonely.> > > > > Read this topic
online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178328#178328
=====> > >
_________________________________________________________________
More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
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esh_instantaccess_042008
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Subject: | Re: C-GXLP first flight- corvair 601XL |
Lincoln,
Is that a new rebuilt engine? If it has few hours you will probably want to use
mineral oil to break in and get everything seated before using the synthetic
motor oil.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178358#178358
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Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? |
Pictures? WebSite?
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178361#178361
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Subject: | Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads |
I dip the rivets in primer before pulling, then wipe off the excess.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178362#178362
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After taking a break, stopped building the airplane in November 2007, I got back
at it today. Feels good to be building an airplane again. During the time
off I built a Bicycle and reworked a 1946 Fairchild cowling so it's not like I
stopped working, just took a XL break. Now I have some fresh enthusiasm and
am ready for the next half.
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178364#178364
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Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? |
Sorry here is a picture taken tonight it is taken at very close range and looks
slightly exaggerated because of the angle
--------
Andrew Lieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178367#178367
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2496_120.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote:
> In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just
> must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.
Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the
top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
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Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
Not a dumb question, Jay.
I often forget what the white arc is for. Fortunately, the 1st page in the
plans gives the definition--the white arc covers the speed range between
the stall speed with flaps extended and the max flap extend speed. My 601
dwg, 6-X-1, gives Vs0 and Vfe as 44 and 80 mph from while Va, the
maneuvering speed is 103 mph.
Terry
At 11:15 PM 4/21/2008 -0500, you wrote:
> > In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just
> > must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.
>
>Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the
>top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?
>--
>Jay Maynard, K5ZC
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
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