---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/21/08: 62 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:57 AM - Monday Evening Chat (George Race) 2. 03:59 AM - Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (MacDonald Doug) 3. 04:19 AM - Canopy Question (DaveG601XL) 4. 05:21 AM - Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Martin Pohl) 5. 05:48 AM - Re: Canopy Question, Too (Jaybannist@cs.com) 6. 06:14 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Juan Vega) 7. 07:04 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (steve) 8. 07:21 AM - Re: Canopy Question (Gig Giacona) 9. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Jim McBurney) 10. 07:40 AM - Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (AB_Summit) 11. 08:05 AM - Re: Canopy Question (DaveG601XL) 12. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Canopy Question (Jaybannist@cs.com) 13. 08:38 AM - Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (MacDonald Doug) 14. 08:53 AM - Re: Canopy Question (Gig Giacona) 15. 09:05 AM - Re: Canopy Question (DaveG601XL) 16. 09:29 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Tim Juhl) 17. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc) 18. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Gary Gower) 19. 10:15 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Martin Pohl) 20. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc) 21. 10:57 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Sabrina) 22. 11:43 AM - TruTrak Autopilot for Zenith (Douglas Dalstrom) 23. 12:15 PM - Re: Death of my Harley (monte(a)rotaryae(dot)com) 24. 12:36 PM - Change topic to RotaMax for 701 and 601. (Jerry Hey) 25. 12:39 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Martin Pohl) 26. 12:43 PM - Re: Canopy Question (Bryan Martin) 27. 12:53 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Bryan Martin) 28. 01:00 PM - Re: Death of my Harley (Gig Giacona) 29. 01:04 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Gig Giacona) 30. 01:06 PM - 601XL Project for Sale - pictures (jhines) 31. 01:44 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Tim Juhl) 32. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (MaxNr@aol.com) 33. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: recent accident (xl) 34. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. (Craig Payne) 35. 02:50 PM - Re: recent accident (Gig Giacona) 36. 03:14 PM - Re: Canopy Question (Jerry Shepard) 37. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: recent accident (n801bh@netzero.com) 38. 04:24 PM - Re: 601HDS: Adding a cutout over the leading edge wing tanks (Mitch Hodges) 39. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: recent accident (Craig Payne) 40. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: recent accident (xl) 41. 05:03 PM - Rivet Gun Recommendation? (mwtucker) 42. 05:16 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (george may) 43. 05:34 PM - Re: Haven't Forgotten New Lists... (kmccune) 44. 05:42 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (burbby) 45. 05:48 PM - Primer Under Rivet Heads (dfmoeller) 46. 05:52 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Lee Steensland) 47. 05:54 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (steve) 48. 05:56 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (kmccune) 49. 06:09 PM - Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? (Andrewlieser) 50. 06:12 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Andrewlieser) 51. 06:35 PM - Where did zenair.com go? (seattle) 52. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (macleod@eagle.ca) 53. 06:44 PM - Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads (John Bolding) 54. 07:44 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (PatrickW) 55. 07:55 PM - Re: Where did zenair.com go? (Frank Roskind) 56. 08:15 PM - Re: C-GXLP first flight- corvair 601XL (Ron Lendon) 57. 08:34 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? (Ron Lendon) 58. 08:38 PM - Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads (Ron Lendon) 59. 08:45 PM - Building again (Ron Lendon) 60. 09:13 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? (Andrewlieser) 61. 09:18 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Jay Maynard) 62. 11:56 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Terry Phillips) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:11 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Monday Evening Chat Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern (Daylight Savings Time now in effect) http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George CH-701 N73EX (Reserved) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:39 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 Randy, you can set your gross weight at anything you like within reason. You don't have to use the additional GWT but it will take care of the math issue for you. I would recommend using 1200lb as your GWT as that is the maximum gross weight allowed for the ULTRA permit. That way if you ever end up on floats, you'll still have a little room in the calculations. There should be a formula on your plans for adjusting the load limits for opperation at higher gross weights if you want to opperate at the higher weight. Hope this helps with your calculations Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do not Archive --- AB_Summit wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > Just doing some studying and research while I wait > for my 701 plans to arrive and I discovered this > formula to calculate the maximum empty weight > allowed. I am wondering if I am interpreting this > correctly. > > According this formula, if I used a 90HP Suzuki > 1.3L, in a 701 with a gross weight of 1100 lbs, I > would be allowed a max. empty weight of 633 lbs in > order to be legal in the amateur built category. I'm > thinking it might be tough to achieve that weight > using anything other than a Rotax engine. > > Here's how I arrived at that 633 lb figure: > > 1100 - (175 + (175 x 1.414) + (90 x 0.5)) = ~633 > lbs. > > Here's a link to the rule and the formula: > > http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/Part5/Standards/549/sub-b.htm#549.107 > > I'm just wondering if this rule is enforced because > if it is, it would rule out a lot of alternative > engine choices for Canadians building in the > Amateur-built category. > > Would there be any hope of getting a Suzuki powered > 701 to weigh less than 633 lbs empty? > > Thanks > Randy Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Question From: "DaveG601XL" I am now working on the canopy and I mirror the comments before me that this is one of the more frustrating parts to work on. But I am chugging on and making progress. For the outside flashing piece it is attached to the frame, but extends past the frame to the aft edge of the canopy bubble. On the prints and pictures I have seen, there appears to be no fasteners attaching the flashing to the canopy as it extends to the aft edge. I can't imagine just the rubber seal strip being the only thing to hold it down. How have you guys kept this piece from flapping in the breeze? Thanks, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, working on final assembly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178105#178105 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed From: "Martin Pohl" My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of the mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which is the "official" maneuvering speed for the CH601XL. Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 kts... What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations? Thank you for any information! Cheers Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178113#178113 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:56 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy Question, Too Dave, With my canopy, that corner of the canopy presses against the side of the fuselage, so there is no "flapping" in the breeze. The rubber seal seems to hold just fine. However, I have another canopy problem. (My canopy is completed) During assembly, I used the latches frequently, with no problem. Now, when the canopy is up, the latching mechanism works just fine. With the canopy down and latched, most of the time I can't unlatch it with the outside turn button. I have drilled holes in the frame to get emergency access to the latches. I can open them through those holes. Obviously, that is not an acceptable method, long term. Any suggestions? Jay in Dallas CH 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser" "DaveG601XL" wrote: > >I am now working on the canopy and I mirror the comments before me that this is one of the more frustrating parts to work on. But I am chugging on and making progress. > >For the outside flashing piece it is attached to the frame, but extends past the frame to the aft edge of the canopy bubble. On the prints and pictures I have seen, there appears to be no fasteners attaching the flashing to the canopy as it extends to the aft edge. I can't imagine just the rubber seal strip being the only thing to hold it down. How have you guys kept this piece from flapping in the breeze? > >Thanks, > >-------- >David Gallagher >601 XL, working on final assembly. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178105#178105 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:31 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed maauvering speeds and V speeds are posted on the cover of your PLans. Manauvering speed is 103 mph. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Martin Pohl >Sent: Apr 21, 2008 8:18 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed > > >My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of the mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which is the "official" maneuvering speed for the CH601XL. > >Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 kts... What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations? > >Thank you for any information! > >Cheers Martin > >-------- >Martin Pohl >Zodiac XL QBK >8645 Jona, Switzerland >www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178113#178113 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:45 AM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed I guess I messed something.. I dont recall ever seeing a placarded manuvering speed.... How is it marked on your glass ?? Mine is green to 130 and then goes yellow to 150 then RED line..... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Pohl" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:18 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed > > My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of > the mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which > is the "official" maneuvering speed for the CH601XL. > > Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 > kts... What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations? > > Thank you for any information! > > Cheers Martin > > -------- > Martin Pohl > Zodiac XL QBK > 8645 Jona, Switzerland > www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178113#178113 > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Question From: "Gig Giacona" While I haven't trimmed my flashing down yet to match the rear of the canopy it does seem that glue and the rubber seal will be the way to go. The main reason is clearance between the canopy and the fuselage skin. BTW. I have had to trim the rear of the canopy at least an inch and a little more near the bottom of the rear edge. I seem to have made the rear arch a little short and the canopy was spreading when I tried to close it. FYI a Drammel tool with 60 grit seems to work real well at this. but it does look like it snowed under my plane. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178130#178130 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:12 AM PST US From: "Jim McBurney" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. Hi, Paul a(nd List), I wholeheartedly agree with your post of concerning operation into IMC. Been there, done that. I wonder if the large percentage of instrument-rated pilots not surviving may have something to do with what you described, the difference being that you had someone aboard that could do the traffic-avoidance part while you flew the gauges. My experience is that it is harder to divide your attention between inside and outside than it is to fly completely on the gauges. Blue skies and tailwinds Jim CH-801 DeltaHawk diesel Augusta GA 90% done, 90% left ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 From: "AB_Summit" dougsnash wrote: > Randy, you can set your gross weight at anything you > like within reason. You don't have to use the > additional GWT but it will take care of the math issue > for you. I would recommend using 1200lb as your GWT > Does that apply if I want to build in the amateur-built category as well, or only if I build under the ultralight category? I heard somewhere that it is difficult in Canada to get approval to increase your gross weight above what the designer intended if you build in the amateur built category. Thanks Randy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178137#178137 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Question From: "DaveG601XL" Another thing I am struggling with is the overall height of the canopy. I got mine from Todd's Canopies and it definitely comes oversize. After sitting it on the airframe, I liked the headroom it gave without any trimming of the forward and aft ends. At this height, it looks to higher than anything I have seen pictures of. The biggest construction downside of this is that there is very little canopy for the outside flashing to attach to at the aft end. Has anybody else who kept their canopy on the high side have any problems with it? Thanks, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, working on final assembly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178143#178143 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:18 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Question Dave, On this point, looks are secondary. Best to find out what your "real" headroom requirements are before doing any cutting down. Pad your seats (if you don't already have the final seating in place), put on your cap and headset. Then sit with the canopy bubble in place. You will notice that the critical clearance is at and just above your left ear. Mine is a little short here and requires me to lean a little toward the right. The ZAC bubble is spherical and I assume that Todd's is the same. An elliptical side to side would be much better, but, I guess, harder to form. Bottom line, we have to deal with the lack of headroom where we really need it. IMHO on the XL, there is no such thing as too much headroom. Jay in Dallas "DaveG601XL" wrote: > >Another thing I am struggling with is the overall height of the canopy. I got mine from Todd's Canopies and it definitely comes oversize. After sitting it on the airframe, I liked the headroom it gave without any trimming of the forward and aft ends. At this height, it looks to higher than anything I have seen pictures of. The biggest construction downside of this is that there is very little canopy for the outside flashing to attach to at the aft end. Has anybody else who kept their canopy on the high side have any problems with it? > >Thanks, > >-------- >David Gallagher >601 XL, working on final assembly. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178143#178143 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:39 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 I am refering to the Amateur Built catagory. The reason I mentioned the Ultralight catagory is purly for ease of getting a pilot permit/lic. Note that I said "Reasonable" increase. When I filed my Letter of Intent with the MD-RA I listed 1200lbs as my gross weight and they did not even think twice about it. Although, I haven't had my final inspection yet so who knows what will be said at that time. One other point is that you have to do your Climb Test at gross weight. Therefore you don't want to get too carried away. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do Not Archive > > Does that apply if I want to build in the > amateur-built category as well, or only if I build > under the ultralight category? I heard somewhere > that it is difficult in Canada to get approval to > increase your gross weight above what the designer > intended if you build in the amateur built category. > > Thanks > Randy Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Question From: "Gig Giacona" Another quick issue on working with the canopy. I don't remember where you live Dave but if it is still cold there wait to do anything. The minimum temp is 70F but the warmer the better. If I had it to do over again I'd wait until the middle of the summer to work on mine and I live in South Arkansas where it is HOT. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178156#178156 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Question From: "DaveG601XL" Gig, I am in Cincinnati, Oh. I waited until now to even order my bubble for the very reason of temperature. It seems like summer will never come since it has remained cool here a lot longer than normal. I have sat under the bubble, but need to do it a few more times to make my final decision. I do not remember having any issues in the AMD 601XL I flew a few weeks ago. Although at 6' 0", I do not consider myself tall, I have some tall friends and a brother who is 6'6" and it would be nice to accommodate them also. Thanks, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, working on final assembly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178160#178160 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed From: "Tim Juhl" Maneuvering speed is not marked on the ASI. I suspect that European regs may require a placard - FAA does not. Tim Do not archive -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178166#178166 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:04 AM PST US From: "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 Randy... If you belong to COPA... they have guidelines for Amateur aircraft and Ultra lights... to access the guidelines you have to be a member of COPA! R.D.(Ron) Leclerc CH701 Plans(Scrap) Builder #7-6699 Porsche Power Belted Redrive Winnipeg, MB Canada infow@mts.net 4/21/2008 12:09:01 PM *************************************** This E-Mail scanned with AVG Anti-Virus Ver: 7.5! *************************************** The COPA Guide to Amateur-Builts 13th Edition September 2006 Copyright Canadian Owners and Pilots Association 2006 The Canadian Owners & Pilots Association 207 - 75 Albert Street, Ottawa, Ontario K1P 5E7 Canada Tel: 613-236-4901 Fax: 613-236-8646 Email: copa@copanational.org Website: www.copanational.org Contents Introduction Scope Of This Guide Reviewing The Rules CAR STD 507 Appendix C Canadian versus US Amateur-Built Rules The 51% Rule Mass Production Of Aircraft Selecting A Design Fly Before You Buy! Construction Times Options - Design Your Own Versus Plans Versus Kits Versus Buying Used Aeroplanes Gliders Powered Gliders Helicopters Gyroplanes Gyrogliders Balloons Airships Some Warnings About Designs Fixed Pitch Helicopters Pressurized Turbine? MD-RAs Role Construction Outside Canada Why do Some Aircraft Not Get Finished? Documentation Weight And Balance Airworthiness Directives (ADs) Design Changes Installing Parts Signing the Maintenance Release Parts Warrantees Registration & Markings Insurance Work-in-Progress Insurance Taxes (At Registration And Importation) Flight Requirements Test Flying Initial Operating Restrictions Final Operating Restrictions IFR Amateur-Builts Aerobatic Amateur-Builts Maintaining Your Amateur-Built Repairs and Modifications to Amateur-Builts Handheld Fire Extinguishers Licences to Fly Amateur-Builts Type Ratings Canadian Amateur-Builts In The USA Selling Your Amateur-Built Buying a Used Amateur-Built Importing an Amateur-Built Join a Club Aircraft Type Clubs Amateur-Builts Versus Ultralights Building An Ultralight Kit As An Amateur-Built Can Certified Aircraft Become Amateur-Builts? Can Existing Ultralights Become Amateur-Builts? Appendix A - References For Building Appendix B - Diary of an Amateur Test Pilot by Ken Beanlands Appendix C - Regulations for Amateur-built Aircraft CAR STD 507 Appendix C CAR STD 507 Appendix D Transport Canada Maintenance Policy Letter 13 The COPA Guide to Amateur-Builts :-{ :-{ :-{ dougsnash wrote: :-{:-{ Randy, you can set your gross weight at anything you like :-{:-{ within reason. You don't have to use the :-{:-{ additional GWT but it will take care of the math issue for :-{:-{ you. I would recommend using 1200lb as your GWT :-{:-{ :-{ :-{ Does that apply if I want to build in the amateur-built category :-{ as well, or only if I build under the ultralight category? I :-{ heard somewhere that it is difficult in Canada to get approval to :-{ increase your gross weight above what the designer intended if :-{ you build in the amateur built category. :-{ :-{ Thanks :-{ Randy :-{ :-{ :-{ Read this topic online here: :-{ :-{ http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178137#178137 :-{ :-{ :-{ = - The Zenith-List Email Forum - :-{ much much more: :-{ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - :-{ > http://forums.matronics.com :-{ your generous support! :-{ -> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:04 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. Hello Paul, Well, in fact we are talking about similar things, the big problem with getting into IFR conditions is that this conditions build up stress in the pilot the moment the visibility is lost, if the pilot is not proficient enough he can easy get panic, desoriented and the next step is a spin... Your experience is the perfect example of "friendly" conditions (no storm, turbulence or wind). We all have to know the fact that aviation is learning, practice, and lots of fun. I also hope that when eventually there is the chance in this list, to learn a little more about flying our airplanes, someone gets the idea. Just to do a little clarify before I forget, here also every pilot has to learn to use the instruments as referernce, also needs to fly by feeling, (instructor covers the instruments, and he needs to fly coordinate at diferent speeds and the normal manuvers, but with time, if the pilot just flys around (not working out its own proficiency) he will loose ability. Just a Quiz: Everyone (just think for yourself, no need to answer to the list) When was the last time you greased a good landing exactly in the numbers (or the point you chosed)? With some crosswind and/or turbulence? If we always do our landings (flying , navigation, etc) as practice, as if the instructor or inspector was in the right seat. In the rare case of a deadstick landing, weather or need to divert an airport etc. we will have a better chance to save our live (and passenger). This is the great thing about aviation, we need to be self resposibles, an look ourselfs for proficiency, FAA or whatever Authorites rule in our country, can give you a ticket, but "Aviation Rules" will harm or kill any of us if we fail... Saludos Gary Gower. Paul Mulwitz wrote: Hi Gary, I always respect your opinion, but on this point we are going to disagree. I believe "flight solely by reference to instruments" is a capability each plane and pilot should have. Equipping the plane is easy. All you need is a single gyro instrument. It doesn't matter which instrument type you choose, but I think the turn and bank is the best choice. Others would choose another instrument and that is OK. The hardest part of this need is the skill of the pilot. In the USA, all pilots except for Sport Pilots must demonstrate the ability to fly solely by reference to instruments to get their license. With the new rule change, even Sport Pilots must receive some training in this skill. The problem is that most pilots don't retain this skill for a long time. Your idea about depending on autopilot for this need is OK. I prefer to keep the pilot capable of doing this task, but an autopilot can save the plane and all its occupants in the sad event that the pilot is incapable of simple instrument flight. Let me tell the story of the first time I had to fly on instruments in the real world. I was departing Norfolk, VA and planned my flight to be completely over land except for the 1/2 mile or so of water between Norfolk and the main land. All was well until I got airborne. Then the tower controller ordered me to continue my climb on the runway heading to allow an inbound airline flight access to his runway. He was flying down the middle of Chesapeake Bay, and I wound up flying over the water toward the eastern shore of the Del-Mar-Va peninsula. There was around 8 miles visibility, and I had no trouble seeing the DC-9 below me and off to the left a little as he performed his instrument approach. The problem came when I was released to continue my own navigation and turned west to cross the bay. At that time the whole world looked grey. The sky was grey, the water was grey, and the land ahead was invisible since it was about 20 miles away. I had plenty of altitude (around 5,000 feet) and could see plenty of distance to avoid traffic, so it was perfectly legal VFR. I just couldn't see anything out in front of the plane to keep myself oriented. I found myself varying heading from my chosen one and had trouble keeping the plane going the way I wanted. So I asked my wife, who was sitting in the copilot's seat to watch out for traffic and went completely on the instruments. This was difficult to do well, but I was able to stabilize my heading and maintain altitude and made the crossing with no further problem. After a couple of minutes I could see the land on the other side of the water and the problem was over. I know there are many pilots flying for recreation that would not have survived that incident. My goal with these posts is to improve the ability of Zenith pilots so they are not among the losers in this kind of incident. The required skill is not very hard to get and maintain. It takes a little bit of training and a little bit of recurring practice to maintain. Since the reward is survival in this kind of situation which can and does happen from time to time no matter how hard we try to avoid it, I feel the small effort to train for this event is worth it. I was surprised to learn that the fatality rate for pilots accidently entering IMC is nearly as high for instrument rated pilots as for those without instrument ratings. I am not sure why this is. Of course the instrument rated pilots have (or had) the necessary skills. Still, many of them (about 50% over the years) still fail to control the airplane successfully when faced with unplanned IMC. Perhaps they panic. Perhaps they just can't adjust to the unexpected and unplanned need to switch to complete instrument flight and get out of the situation. Whatever the reason, this situation is almost as likely to kill instrument rated pilots as unrated ones. If my comments get a few of our list members to work on this skill and just one survives an unexpected need to fly on instruments then I will feel a great success. If all I do is annoy a few list members with my point of view, then perhaps not much has been lost. Best regards, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 10:54 PM 4/19/2008, you wrote: >I know that in a cross country flight when weather gets >marginal, the "get-home-itis" pushes the pilot to believe he can >make it -at least to the next airport in the plan- but without >enough IFR practice is suicide. >How much IFR practice can a week end pilot get, if he probably flys >around 50 hrs a year all together? Probably an active comercial or >airline pilot, flying a Sport Pilot for fun could have chance, not >the rest of us... --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed From: "Martin Pohl" Thank you for the link to the plan's first page. The 103 mph correspond to the 90kts indicated on my plans. There is not only a european requirement, but also a FAA-requirement for a placard on the instrument panel showing the maneuvering speed: see FAR23.1563. http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=4e6cf388cbe492dba14c52d456ca0fe7&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:1.0.1.3.10.7.105.25&idno=14 Cheers Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178174#178174 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:56 AM PST US From: "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Canadian amateur-built rules - maximum empty weight for 701 Some more Randy... An exert from the COPA guidelines: Ron ***** Amateur-Builts Versus Ultralights Many lighter amateur-built airplane designs can also be built and registered as ultralights. If the aircraft is under 1200 lbs gross weight and has a Landing Configuration Stall Speed (VSO) of 39 knots or less then it can be built as a basic ultralight aeroplane (BULA) instead of amateur-built. There are pros and cons to this approach: Pros: BULAs do not to be inspected by any outside agency, thus saving money on inspections BULAs do not have any maintenance standards BULAs do not have any design standards BULAs do not have to carry some equipment that amateur-builts do, like: o ELTs o Operating checklist or placards o Aeronautical charts and publications o Fire extinguisher o Timepiece o Flashlight o First aid kit BULAs do not have to meet VFR instrument and equipment requirements BULAs can be used commercially for flight training and hang glider towing BULAs have simplified paperwork requirements C of R only required, no Special C of A or logbooks required BULAs can be purchased new and completely assembled no 51% rule BULAs do not need to comply with Destination Fuel requirements (destination plus 30 minutes worth of fuel) BULAs are not required to carry survival equipment BULAs do not need to file an Annual Airworthiness Information Report Cons: BULAs cannot carry passengers (however two pilots can fly together, provided they both have licences that would let them fly the aircraft. Also a student and instructor can fly together) You need to wear a helmet in a BULA BULAs have restrictions on airspace they cannot be flown in controlled terminal airspace. Another alternative is that some kit aircraft under 1232 lbs and with a VSO of 39 knots or less can be built as an advanced ultralight aircraft (AULA), if the kit manufacturer has declared that the aircraft complies with the LAMAC publication Design Standards for Advanced Ultralight Aeroplanes. As in the case of the BULAs there are pros and cons in comparison to amateur-builts: Pros: AULAs do not need to be inspected by an outside agency, unless the factory requires it (some do and there is usually a fee if they do) AULAs have simple maintenance standards (they must follow the factory approved standard) AULAs do not require logbooks, just maintenance records AULAs do not have to carry some equipment that amateur-builts do, like: o ELTs o Operating checklist or placards o Aeronautical charts and publications o Fire extinguisher o Timepiece o Flashlight o First aid kit AULAs can be used commercially for flight training and hang glider towing AULAs have simplified paperwork requirements C of R only required, no Special C of A or logbooks required AULAs can be purchased new and completely assembled no 51% rule AULAs do not need to comply with Destination Fuel requirements (destination plus 30 minutes worth of fuel) AULAs are not required to carry survival equipment AULAs do not need to file an Annual Airworthiness Information Report Cons: Modifications require written authority from the kit manufacturer if they go out of business then no further modifications are allowed AULAs must be built from a kit or sold completed, no building from plans allowed Manufacturers may issue Mandatory Actions similar to ADs for certified aircraft. For more information on ultralights see The COPA Guide to Ultralights. Building An Ultralight Kit As An Amateur-Built Most aircraft kits that fit the ultralight category can also be built as amateur-built aircraft. Since the amateur-built rules allow bigger and heavier aircraft than the ultralight category, any kit that would qualify as an ultralight will fit the basic amateur-built definition. Some of these kits will also require a 51% determination, if they have not been assessed at the factory request before. See the section on 51% determination for more information. Many Canadian kit manufacturers produce different versions of their kits for the ultralight and amateur-built markets. These ones are easy to assess; they will usually require no changes to be built as amateur-builts. Other manufacturers produce their aircraft strictly for the Canadian ultralight category. These may need some serious changes to fit them into the amateur-built category. The Canadian amateur-built rules and construction practices differ from normal ultralight construction methods and so there will probably be a requirement that some of the materials be changed to fit the aircraft into the amateur-built category :-{ :-{ :-{ dougsnash wrote: :-{:-{ Randy, you can set your gross weight at anything you like :-{:-{ within reason. You don't have to use the :-{:-{ additional GWT but it will take care of the math issue for :-{:-{ you. I would recommend using 1200lb as your GWT :-{:-{ :-{ :-{ Does that apply if I want to build in the amateur-built category :-{ as well, or only if I build under the ultralight category? I :-{ heard somewhere that it is difficult in Canada to get approval to :-{ increase your gross weight above what the designer intended if :-{ you build in the amateur built category. :-{ :-{ Thanks :-{ Randy :-{ :-{ :-{ Read this topic online here: :-{ :-{ http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178137#178137 :-{ :-{ :-{ = - The Zenith-List Email Forum - :-{ much much more: :-{ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - :-{ > http://forums.matronics.com :-{ your generous support! :-{ -> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:49 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed From: "Sabrina" 23.1 Applicability. top (a) This part prescribes airworthiness standards for the issue of type certificates, and changes to those certificates, for airplanes in the normal, utility, acrobatic, and commuter categories. (b) Each person who applies under Part 21 for such a certificate or change must show compliance with the applicable requirements of this part. E-AB and E-LSA builders, by definition, do no apply under part 21 for a "type certificate" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178192#178192 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:52 AM PST US From: Douglas Dalstrom Subject: Zenith-List: TruTrak Autopilot for Zenith With the current string of e-mails discussing potential safety enhancements with an autopilot if you unexpectedly stray into IMC, some of you might be interested in the ad I recently placed in Barnstormers for a new TruTrak Digitrak (roll axis) autopilot. It includes the 2 1/4" unit, servo and Zenith hardware kit. Priced at $200 under list. Check it out at barnstormers.com under Experimental/Zenith or Avionics/autopilot. Thanks. Doug Do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Death of my Harley From: "monte(a)rotaryae(dot)com" I just joined your forum and thought I'd address some of the facts stated here. I'm the Director of Sales & Marketing at Rotary Aircraft Engines. We are the only licensed worldwide distributer of the aviation version of this engine that Rotamax is developing. We currently have the Rotamax engine flying in the Sadler Vampire and the Sparrowhawk Gyrocopter. We will soon have one installed in a Sport Copter II, the Outback 2 and the Sport Hornet. The folks that make the Sport Hornet are at the Rotamax factory as I speak testing the engine on their aircraft with various props and in different configurations. We've had a lot of interest from many Zenith 601 & 701 builders regarding our engine, so it's good news to hear that you're working on building a FWF kit for this engine to work with those planes. Please contact me--we'd love to do what we can to assist. [quote="jerry(at)jerryhey.com"]The future is now. At Sun n Fun you will be able to see real engines running and torn down. They have engines running on the dyno and other test beds such as a motorcycle and RTV that I think you will be able to see perform at Sun n Fun. I don't know if they will have an engine in a flying airplane but that is coming very soon. Jerry On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Gig Giacona wrote: [quote] > The Rotomax might well be a great engine some day but I'd have to say that day is probably well off in the future. If you look at the pictures on their website they are all still computer generated and not photos of real engines. jerry(at)jerryhey.com wrote: > I agree with what Mark has said but a new player is about to be > added to the engine list that may change everything. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172515#172515 [/quote][/quote] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178213#178213 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:43 PM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Zenith-List: Change topic to RotaMax for 701 and 601. The Rotamax 2 rotor will be a worthy competitor for the Rotex and Jabiru. It will deliver 120 hp at peak and 100 hp continuous and the firewall forward package will be less than 200 lbs. This engine is capable of much more power and is just loafing at 120 hp. Jerry On Apr 21, 2008, at 3:13 PM, monte(a)rotaryae(dot)com wrote: > > > > I just joined your forum and thought I'd address some of the facts > stated here. I'm the Director of Sales & Marketing at Rotary > Aircraft Engines. We are the only licensed worldwide distributer of > the aviation version of this engine that Rotamax is developing. We > currently have the Rotamax engine flying in the Sadler Vampire and > the Sparrowhawk Gyrocopter. We will soon have one installed in a > Sport Copter II, the Outback 2 and the Sport Hornet. The folks that > make the Sport Hornet are at the Rotamax factory as I speak testing > the engine on their aircraft with various props and in different > configurations. We've had a lot of interest from many Zenith 601 & > 701 builders regarding our engine, so it's good news to hear that > you're working on building a FWF kit for this engine to work with > those planes. Please contact me--we'd love to do what we can to > assist. > > > [quote="jerry(at)jerryhey.com"]The future is now. At Sun n Fun you > will be able to see real engines > running and torn down. They have engines running on the dyno and > other test beds such as a motorcycle and RTV that I think you will be > able to see perform at Sun n Fun. I don't know if they will have an > engine in a flying airplane but that is coming very soon. Jerry > > > On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Gig Giacona wrote: > > [quote] >> > > The Rotomax might well be a great engine some day but I'd have to > say that day is probably well off in the future. If you look at the > pictures on their website they are all still computer generated and > not photos of real engines. > > > jerry(at)jerryhey.com wrote: >> I agree with what Mark has said but a new player is about to be >> added to the engine list that may change everything. > > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172515#172515 > > > [/quote][/quote] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178213#178213 > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed From: "Martin Pohl" Sabrina, thank you for the info. I didn't know that... Nevertheless here in Europe (or at least in Switzerland), we have to install this VA-placard before showing it to the aviation authority. Cheers Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178220#178220 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:54 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Question I just used 3M weather strip adhesive between the flashing and the canopy and used the same stuff to glue on the seal strip. I haven't had any trouble with it. For the front flashing, I used some 3 automotive trim tape between the flashing and the canopy along the top edge to fill the gap that wanted to appear there. > > I am now working on the canopy and I mirror the comments before me that this is one of the more frustrating parts to work on. But I am chugging on and making progress. > > For the outside flashing piece it is attached to the frame, but extends past the frame to the aft edge of the canopy bubble. On the prints and pictures I have seen, there appears to be no fasteners attaching the flashing to the canopy as it extends to the aft edge. I can't imagine just the rubber seal strip being the only thing to hold it down. How have you guys kept this piece from flapping in the breeze? > > Thanks, > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:37 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed The information I received from ZAC was 110 mph (96 kts) but mine is an early kit, that information may be for the original gross weight of 1400 lbs. The maneuvering speed goes down with decreasing weight. In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just must be included in the pilot's operating handbook. > > My instrument panel is going to be finished soon. For the installation of the mandatory "Maneuvering Speed" placard, I am trying to find out which is the "official" maneuvering speed for the CH601XL. > > Different sources indicate different va's: 80 kts, 82 kts, 88 kts, even 90 kts... What is the official speed that Chris used for his XL-calculations? > > Thank you for any information! > > Cheers Martin > > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Death of my Harley From: "Gig Giacona" Well Monte, I strongly suggest you guys need to update the pictures of the engines on your home page http://www.rotamax.net/ . Because when I see computer generated pictures of airplane parts I think vaporware. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178227#178227 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:49 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed From: "Gig Giacona" Strange... Looking at the front page of my planes there is no maneuvering speed called out. Just Top, Cruise, Stall and Vne. 1st Edition 04/02. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178230#178230 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Project for Sale - pictures From: "jhines" I know I posted this last week, but I have more information and pictures. This is not your average scratch build project. All the parts are CNC cut and many are pre-drilled. I am asking $3000 for all. Much more invested. Check out the pictures: http://www.johnsplane.com/project/page1.htm Original post After starting this project from a tail kit, I decided to switch to scratch building. I remember hearing Mark Townsend say scratch build because you love building. Dont scratch build to save money. If you do, you will go nuts! Well, truer words have never been spoken. This scratch building thing is for people with more patients than me. Also, I have decided I really want a float plane. I am going to purchase a kit that is a little better suited to that. If you want a big jump on scratch building, let me know. I have the following and more: Corvair engine core inspected by William Wynne at Corvair day at the Zenith factory. He said it looks good but it needs a valve job. Corvair motor mount purchased from William Wynne at Corvair day. Empennage assembled from Kit Almost all sheet metal parts. Most parts already cut out and formed. Forming blocks. Corvair conversion manual. Zenith Zodiac 601XL plans. Homebuilt help scratch building basics DVD. You really only need the extruded aluminum and a lot of patience to build this airframe. If you are really interested, contact me off list at johnrhines(at)gmail.com. I have some pictures on my website at www.johnsplane.com or I can send you more detailed pics. Thanks, John Do not archive. -------- John Hines Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178232#178232 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed From: "Tim Juhl" Either a operating manual or placards may be used to provide data such a maneuvering speed. The manner of compliance is specified by the type certificate. For example, the Cessna 172 only calls for displaying maneuvering speed starting with 1971 models, stating: This airplane must be operated in compliance with the operating limitations stated in the form of placards, markings, and manuals. MAXIMUMS Normal Category Maneuvering speed (CAS) 122 mph (106 knots) Gross weight 2300 lbs. I don't know if it was on a placard or in the manual after 1971. My 1968 172 had it only in the manual. The attached info is from the XL plans dated 3/06. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178240#178240 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/v_speeds_630.jpg ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:43 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. I share the many opinions that some instrument training should be required for S.P.s. After all, the proposal is only that the pilot candidate receive one hour of training. No pass / fail, and its not included on the test. Can be done in any aircraft because its only dual. Like chicken soup, it can't hurt. Its also reasonable (with proper certification and equipment) to depart IFR in a light sport into improving conditions. I checked my log book a while back and found that every flight over 500 miles had at least a few minutes of weather time logged. Much of that likely not really required. No instrument training was required when I soloed years ago. That was on a CAA student permit. When I took my private test, my CFI informed me that the FAA was running things now and I had to demonstrate instrument ability for the man. The familiar Piper J-3 now had a T&B and a VSI installed. I even got the front seat for a change. A few years ago, I began to doubt my instrument ability. I realized that at the time all my flying was being done "coupled up" to the flight director. I shamelessly still logged the instrument time, however. My doubts went away each time I went off to the Flight Safety simulator. I got to hand fly her to the runway with 100 & 1/4 mi vis with most of the A/C inop and on fire. The sim instructor than offered to turn day into night for me so I could get my three night landings logged. Still 100 ovc & 1/4 mile. Instrument flying is like riding a bike, just harder to put cards in the spokes. A wing leveler would be a plus in my 601XL, but I'll pass on that. I've got most of the "sacred six" flight instruments on hand and I'll still plan trips over 500 miles. I'm going with steam gauges in spite of my years in glass cockpits and for good reason. I also plan to stay out of trouble. I'm retired now with no schedule. My wife has a special way of saying "Just what do you think you're doing?" One of my friends says that he always uses his outstanding judgment to avoid those situations that may require his awesome skills. Bob 601XL/Lyc Do not archive ************** Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:32 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: recent accident Here's my attempt, ala rvproject. 'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair' http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/ The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time. There are duplicates, found in more than 1 table, I did not merge the datasets. The NSTB queries look at 'Make/Model'. I did take a look for Zenith, Zodiac and Zenair in the narrative and didn't see more hits. If you know of other ways to query the NSTB database please let me know. Also, if you know of databases other than the US NSTB database that I could include, let me know - and if you know the queries that I should run, even better. Joe E @ BFI CH601XL 505 hours On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, PatrickW wrote: > Anybody know if anyone's put together something like this to track > for Zenith planes? http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.html > - Pat ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:45 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Re: Proposed changes to sport pilot regs. Good book for Sport (or any VFR) pilots: "IFR for VFR Pilots, An Exercise in Survival" by Richard L. Taylor. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:18 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: recent accident From: "Gig Giacona" Damn fine work Joe. I just clicked one at random, http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070726X01018&key=1 and noticed that he had some bad fuel in the plane. This should remind those of us that are in the late part of the building cycle that it might not be a bad idea to drain the fuel if is has been in there a while and do our test flights with fresh gas. xl(at)prosody.org wrote: > Here's my attempt, ala rvproject. > 'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair' > http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/ > The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time. > > There are duplicates, found in more than 1 table, > I did not merge the datasets. > > The NSTB queries look at 'Make/Model'. I did take > a look for Zenith, Zodiac and Zenair in the narrative > and didn't see more hits. If you know of other ways > to query the NSTB database please let me know. > > Also, if you know of databases other than the US NSTB > database that I could include, let me know - and if > you know the queries that I should run, even better. > > Joe E @ BFI > CH601XL 505 hours > > > On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, PatrickW wrote: > > > > > Anybody know if anyone's put together something like this to track > > for Zenith planes? http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.html > > - Pat > > > > > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178265#178265 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:59 PM PST US From: "Jerry Shepard" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Question Did everyone know that ZAC now has an exclusive agreement with Todon canopies so now you can only buy them from ZAC. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaveG601XL" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Question > > I am now working on the canopy and I mirror the comments before me that > this is one of the more frustrating parts to work on. But I am chugging > on and making progress. > > For the outside flashing piece it is attached to the frame, but extends > past the frame to the aft edge of the canopy bubble. On the prints and > pictures I have seen, there appears to be no fasteners attaching the > flashing to the canopy as it extends to the aft edge. I can't imagine > just the rubber seal strip being the only thing to hold it down. How have > you guys kept this piece from flapping in the breeze? > > Thanks, > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, working on final assembly. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178105#178105 > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:55 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: recent accident Nice job Joe... This data is real hard to collect and you are on the rig ht track. I know of at least two 801's that crashed and I know one is in the NTSB records. Thats the Mitchell 801 that disintigrated over Nicola s California a few years back, fatal.. Also Jim Frisby crashed his 801 in Palmer Ak, not hurt too bad... I am guessing that beyond entering the three Z's try just the model numbers, like 601 , 701 , 801 and add thos e to the list. Still, my hats off to ya since I can barely turn on my pu ter.. Thanks again do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- xl wrote: Here's my attempt, ala rvproject. 'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair' http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/ The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time. There are duplicates, found in more than 1 table, I did not merge the datasets. The NSTB queries look at 'Make/Model'. I did take a look for Zenith, Zodiac and Zenair in the narrative and didn't see more hits. If you know of other ways to query the NSTB database please let me know. Also, if you know of databases other than the US NSTB database that I could include, let me know - and if you know the queries that I should run, even better. Joe E @ BFI CH601XL 505 hours On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, PatrickW wrote: > Anybody know if anyone's put together something like this to track > for Zenith planes? http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.html > - Pat ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== _____________________________________________________________ Victim of medical malpractice? Click here to find an expert lawyer to h elp pursue your case. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vEhhz8edkPRKUggV47 rYtDeMIVsImpta1Gauqewk6ZEuQP4/ ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HDS: Adding a cutout over the leading edge wing tanks From: "Mitch Hodges" Mitch Hodges wrote: > ...so I'll go with that once I get confirmation that it is Ok for the HDS wing, although I don't know why it wouldn't be. I said I would post a follow-up once I got confirmation from the factory. Caleb basically confirmed that the skins should overlap the ribs and share the same set of holes through both skins and the ribs. He also indicated that using A5s was not necessary since there was no increase in loads. So, I will trim the factory nose skin to fit from S8 to the wing tip and from the added tank rib to the inboard edge. I'll have fabricate a new "tank skin" to replace the gap and all will be well. In fact, I'm guessing this will make dealing with the tank install easier. Now the question is whether I retro fit the other wing or until if/when there is an issue with the tank. That's a question for another day. Thanks to all that responded. -------- Mitch Hodges N601MH (Zenith 601HDS) Wings Under Perpetual Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178290#178290 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:16 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: recent accident If you download the entire FAA aircraft registration database (a 39 MB zip file from the link below) you get a set of files. One of those files (ACFTREF.csv) maps "manufacturer" and "model" names to an arbitrary code number. http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_reg istry/releasable_aircraft_download/ If you search the list of model names for 601, 701, 801 (and 750!) and manually eliminate the obvious non-Zenith planes you get the following 214 unique names: 601 CH 601 HDS 601 XL 601 XL ZODIAC 601HD 601HDS 601XL 701 ZENITH BEACHY-ZENITH CH701 BH 701 CH .701 CH 601 HD CH 601 HD ZODIAC CH 601 HDS CH 601 XL CH 601 XL RTF CH 601 ZODIAC CH 701 CH 701 S T O L CH 701 SP CH 701 STOL CH 701/U CH 701SJ CH 801 CH 801 ZENITH AIR CH-601 HDS CH-601 XL CH-601-HD ZODIAC CH-601-HDS CH-601XL CH-701 CH-701 (STOL) CH-701 SP CH-701 STOL CH-701-A CH-801 CH601 HD CH601 HDS CH601 HDS ZODIAC CH601-HDS CH601HD CH601HDS CH601HDS-ZODIAC CH601XL CH601XL SLSA CH601XLI SLSA CH701 CH701SP CH801 DEVINE/ZENITH 601HDS FREW ZODIAC CH601 XL FRICANO ZODIAC-601 G-801 GRINVALDS HAAS 801 JUHL-ZODIAC CH601XL MARTIN LM-701 MBCH.601 MUELLER-CH701 MUELLER-ZENITH CH701 MUSSER ZODIAC 601XL S Z CH 601 HDS SHERMAN CH-701 SPR ZODIAC CH601 HDS SPR ZODIAC CH601HDS STDL CH-701 STOL 701 STOL CH 701 STOL CH 750 STOL CH 801 STOL CH-701 STOL CH-801 STOL CH701 STOL CH801 SUPER ZODIAC 601 SUPER ZODIAC 601HDS SUPER ZODIAC CH601-H TROJAN-ZENAIR 601HDS WILLIAMS 601 HD Z601XL Z701 ZEBAUR CG 701 ZENAIR 601 HDS ZENAIR 601HDTD ZENAIR 701 ZENAIR CH 601 HD ZENAIR CH 601 XL ZENAIR CH 601HD ZENAIR CH 601XL ZENAIR CH 701 ZENAIR CH 701 SP ZENAIR CH 701 STOL ZENAIR CH 701SP ZENAIR CH 801 ZENAIR CH-701 ZENAIR CH601 ZENAIR CH601 HDS ZENAIR CH601 XL ZENAIR CH601HD ZENAIR CH601XL ZENAIR CH701 ZENAIR CH701 SP ZENAIR CH701 STOL ZENAIR CH701SP ZENAIR STOL 701 ZENAIR STOL CH 701 ZENAIR STOL CH-701 ZENAIR STOL CH701 ZENAIR STOL-CH-701 ZENAIR ZODIAC 601 HD ZENAIR ZODIAC 601HDS ZENAIRCH701 ZENETH ZODIAC 601 XL ZENITH 601 ZENITH 601 HD ZENITH 601 HDS ZENITH 601 XL ZENITH 601HD ZENITH 601HDS ZENITH 601X ZODIAC ZENITH 601XL ZENITH 701 ZENITH 701 STOL ZENITH 701SP ZENITH 801 ZENITH ACFT CH-701 ZENITH AIR 601XL ZENITH AIR CH 701 ZENITH CH 601 HD ZENITH CH 601 HDS ZENITH CH 601HDS ZENITH CH 601XL ZENITH CH 701 ZENITH CH 801 ZENITH CH-601HD ZENITH CH-701 ZENITH CH-801 ZENITH CH601 HD ZENITH CH701 ZENITH CH701-STOL ZENITH CH801 ZENITH STOL 701CH ZENITH STOL CH 701 ZENITH STOL CH 801 ZENITH STOL CH-701 ZENITH STOL CH701 ZENITH STOL CH701 SP ZENITH STOL CH801 ZENITH ZOD CH 601 HD ZENITH ZODC 601 HDS ZENITH ZODC CH601HDS ZENITH ZODIAC 601 HD ZENITH ZODIAC 601 XL ZENITH ZODIAC 601HD ZENITH ZODIAC 601HDS ZENITH ZODIAC 601XL ZENITH ZODIAC CH601X ZENITH ZODIAC-601HDS ZENITH ZODIACCH601HD ZENITH ZODIACCH601XL ZENITH ZODIAK 601XL ZENITH-STOL CH801 ZENITHAIR 701 ZENITHAIR CH-601 XL ZENITHAIR CH801 ZENTH ZODIAC CH601HD ZENTH ZODIAC CH601XL ZENZIR STOL CH701 ZNAR ZODAC CH 601 HD ZNH SPR ZODC 601 HDS ZNITH ZODIAC CH601XL ZNITH ZODIC CH601HDS ZNR ZODIAC CH601 HDS ZNTH CH601 HD ZODIAC ZNTH ZODIAC CH601 HD ZNTH ZODIAC CH601HD ZNTH ZODIAC CH601HDS ZNTH ZODIC CH601HDS ZNTH-ZODIAC CH601HDS ZODIAC 601 ZODIAC 601 HD ZODIAC 601 HD/HDS ZODIAC 601 HDS ZODIAC 601 HDS TRI ZODIAC 601 XL ZODIAC 601-HD ZODIAC 601-HDS ZODIAC 601HD ZODIAC 601HDS ZODIAC 601XL ZODIAC CH 601 ZODIAC CH 601 HD ZODIAC CH 601 HDS ZODIAC CH 601 XL ZODIAC CH 601-HDS ZODIAC CH 601HDS ZODIAC CH 601XL ZODIAC CH-601 HDS ZODIAC CH-601-HD ZODIAC CH-601-HDS ZODIAC CH-601XL ZODIAC CH601 ZODIAC CH601 HD ZODIAC CH601 HDS ZODIAC CH601 XL ZODIAC CH601HD ZODIAC CH601HDS ZODIAC CH601XL ZODIAC CH601XL2 ZODIAC HDS-601 ZODIAC XL 601 ZODIAC-CH601XL ZODIAC/CH 601-HDS ZODIAK 601 XL ZODIAT CH 601 HD From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:32 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: recent accident Nice job Joe... This data is real hard to collect and you are on the right track. I know of at least two 801's that crashed and I know one is in the NTSB records. Thats the Mitchell 801 that disintigrated over Nicolas California a few years back, fatal.. Also Jim Frisby crashed his 801 in Palmer Ak, not hurt too bad... I am guessing that beyond entering the three Z's try just the model numbers, like 601 , 701 , 801 and add those to the list. Still, my hats off to ya since I can barely turn on my puter.. Thanks again do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- xl wrote: Here's my attempt, ala rvproject. 'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair' http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/ The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time. There are duplicates, found in more than 1 table, I did not merge the datasets. The NSTB queries look at 'Make/Model'. I did take a look for Zenith, Zodiac and Zenair in the narrative and didn't see more hits. If you know of other ways to query the NSTB database please let me know. Also, if you know of databases other than the US NSTB database that I could include, let me know - and if you know the queries that I should run, even better. Joe E @ BFI CH601XL 505 hours On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, PatrickW wrote: > Anybody know if anyone's put together something like this to track > for Zenith planes? http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.ht========================bsp; - The Zenith-List Em============================================== _____________________________________________________________ Victim of medical malpractice? Click here to find an expert lawyer to help pursue your case. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:27 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: recent accident I've included make/model 801, 701, 601 and amd. The Palmer, AK incident shows up now in the 801 table. And there some more 601s + 701s picked up, and that AMD 601XL. Someday, I may parse the data further, remove duplicates and rearrange it, but for now....... (you can use your browser's search function, clumsy, but it works.) On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, n801bh@netzero.com wrote: > Nice job Joe... This data is real hard to collect and you are on the right track. I know of at least two 801's that crashed and I know one is in the NTSB records. Thats the Mitchell 801 that disintigrated over Nicolas California a few years back, fatal.. Also Jim Frisby crashed his 801 in Palmer Ak, not hurt too bad... I am guessing that beyond entering the three Z's try just the model numbers, like 601 , 701 , 801 and add those to the list. Still, my hats off to ya since I can barely turn on my puter.. Thanks again > do not archive > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > -- xl wrote: > Here's my attempt, ala rvproject. > 'NTSB Accident Data for Zenith, Zodiac, Zenair' > http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/ > The page is updated daily at 0404 Seattle time. > ....snip > Joe E @ BFI > CH601XL 505 hours ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:12 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation? From: "mwtucker" I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that said to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good one... Any feedback on this? Thanks in advance for your suggestions! Regards, Mike -------- Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178305#178305 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:59 PM PST US From: george may Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation? Built my entire 601XL with the "cheap" Harbor Freight gun. Worked fine with just a drop of oil now and then. George May 601XL 912s 200hrs> Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation?> From: mwtucker@windstream.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:00:18 -0700> To: zenith- er@windstream.net>> > I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes t hat said to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good on e...> > Any feedback on this?> > Thanks in advance for your suggestions!> > Regards,> Mike> > --------> Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtop ========================> _ =============> > > _________________________________________________________________ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_instantaccess_042008 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:11 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Haven't Forgotten New Lists... From: "kmccune" Hi Matt, No worries, I am looking forward to it, but I think we'll survive...... 601 guys aren't THAT bad! [Wink] :) Thanks for the update though. Kevin do not archive -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178309#178309 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:35 PM PST US From: burbby Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation? I purchased mine from Northern Tool Company. It was around $70 and it works fine. I used the heads from the rivet gun from Zenith in it with no problems. I think $200 is a little much and im sure you can get a real good one for that price but others can be had cheeper that will work fine. Thanks Gary ----- Original Message ---- From: mwtucker Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:00:18 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation? I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that said to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good one... Any feedback on this? Thanks in advance for your suggestions! Regards, Mike -------- Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178305#178305 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Primer Under Rivet Heads From: "dfmoeller" At the risk of starting another thread on primers (which I don't intend to do), I have a question. Almost everybody primes the internal feying surfaces. It appears though that nobody is priming the external rivet lines before riveting. Is there a reason that the interfacial surfaces between the rivet head and the aluminum won't corrode? It would seem to me that a prime place to trap moisture would be under the rivet heads. Am I overlooking something? Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178311#178311 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:16 PM PST US From: Lee Steensland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation? I ended up getting the gun from ZAC. I was going to go the harbor freight route, however I didn't want to hassle with manufacturing a nose piece for my gun. I just spent the $80 and was done with it. george may wrote: > Built my entire 601XL with the "cheap" Harbor Freight gun. Worked fine > with just a drop of oil now and then. > > George May > 601XL 912s 200hrs > > > Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation? > > From: mwtucker@windstream.net > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:00:18 -0700 > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > > > > > I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've > searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears > a few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that > said to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good > one... > > > > Any feedback on this? > > > > Thanks in advance for your suggestions! > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > -------- > > Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178305#178305 > >=========== > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live > Messenger. > > > * > > > * -- Lee Steensland 601XL/Corvair (7637L reserved) Kit/Scratch builder 0.0% complete! ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:48 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation? Harbor Freight. 29.95 on sale or $49.95 regular. Works just fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mwtucker" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation? > > I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've > searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a > few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that said > to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good one... > > Any feedback on this? > > Thanks in advance for your suggestions! > > Regards, > Mike > > -------- > Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178305#178305 > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:07 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? From: "kmccune" Mine is from HF too, it has not built an airplane , just a rudder and stab. But I could buy a number of them on sale for 200 bucks. Your will have to make the special machined head, very easy and about 5 bucks if you have the drill press ( or lath even better) already. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178312#178312 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? From: "Andrewlieser" Hey everyone, I am looking for a bit of advice on my rib alignment for my rudder. I am getting ready to rivet my rudder "skeleton" together this weekend and noticed that my 3rd rib is approximately 1-2 mm off center. The lip of the rib actually is recessed a tad on one side and protrudes a tad from the spar on the other. This my be knit picky or it may not be but I am new at this and would like to know if this is within the tolerances of the design. I am learning a great deal about what methods get me the best results right now so I apologize if this is a dumb question. Thanks in advance, Andrew [Embarassed] -------- Andrew Lieser Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178323#178323 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? From: "Andrewlieser" What PSI do you guys find best for pulling the rivets? I set a few practice ones with my riveter from zenith at 90 and they back end didn't appear to pull tight enough? -------- Andrew Lieser Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178324#178324 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Where did zenair.com go? From: "seattle" Haven't been able to connect with the zenair.com web site for a couple of days now. Anybody else having troubles getting their web site to open up? This could make a guy feel very lonely. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178328#178328 ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? From: macleod@eagle.ca Andrew: I used 42 psi for A4s and 60 psi for A5s with my excellent Zenith supplied rivet gun. I didn't want the gun to pull too fast so that it had time to completely reshape the rivet head. Mike 601 XL - Rotax FWfwd installation in progress > > What PSI do you guys find best for pulling the rivets? I set a few > practice ones with my riveter from zenith at 90 and they back end didn't > appear to pull tight enough? > > -------- > Andrew Lieser > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178324#178324 > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:49 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer Under Rivet Heads you're not overlooking anything, if you live in a high humidity, polluted atmosphere, priming is a good thing. jb > It appears though that nobody is priming the external rivet lines > before riveting. Is there a reason that the interfacial surfaces between > the rivet head and the aluminum won't corrode? It would seem to me that a > prime place to trap moisture would be under the rivet heads. Am I > overlooking something? > > Doug > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? From: "PatrickW" I bought the green one in the ZAC toolkit. Was not happy with it. It's purely pnuematic, and "harsh". While visiting Quality Sport Planes in Cloverdale, I struck up a conversation about riveters with one of the airplane builders, and he let me pull a couple rivets on a 701 with his HF gun. Big difference. You put oil in it. I bought one on the spot, and have used it ever since. Patrick XL/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178350#178350 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:54 PM PST US From: Frank Roskind Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Where did zenair.com go? It's not working for me either do not archive> Subject: Zenith-List: Where did zenair.com go?> From: ccgre enberg@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:32:33 -0700> To: zenith-list@ma hoo.com>> > Haven't been able to connect with the zenair.com web site for a couple of days now. Anybody else having troubles getting their web site to open up? This could make a guy feel very lonely.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178328#178328 =====> > > _________________________________________________________________ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_instantaccess_042008 ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: C-GXLP first flight- corvair 601XL From: "Ron Lendon" Lincoln, Is that a new rebuilt engine? If it has few hours you will probably want to use mineral oil to break in and get everything seated before using the synthetic motor oil. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178358#178358 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:02 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? From: "Ron Lendon" Pictures? WebSite? do not archive -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178361#178361 ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:01 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads From: "Ron Lendon" I dip the rivets in primer before pulling, then wipe off the excess. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178362#178362 ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Building again From: "Ron Lendon" After taking a break, stopped building the airplane in November 2007, I got back at it today. Feels good to be building an airplane again. During the time off I built a Bicycle and reworked a 1946 Fairchild cowling so it's not like I stopped working, just took a XL break. Now I have some fresh enthusiasm and am ready for the next half. do not archive -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178364#178364 ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? From: "Andrewlieser" Sorry here is a picture taken tonight it is taken at very close range and looks slightly exaggerated because of the angle -------- Andrew Lieser Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178367#178367 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2496_120.jpg ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:44 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote: > In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just > must be included in the pilot's operating handbook. Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct? -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:03 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed Not a dumb question, Jay. I often forget what the white arc is for. Fortunately, the 1st page in the plans gives the definition--the white arc covers the speed range between the stall speed with flaps extended and the max flap extend speed. My 601 dwg, 6-X-1, gives Vs0 and Vfe as 44 and 80 mph from while Va, the maneuvering speed is 103 mph. Terry At 11:15 PM 4/21/2008 -0500, you wrote: > > In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just > > must be included in the pilot's operating handbook. > >Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the >top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct? >-- >Jay Maynard, K5ZC Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.