Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:30 AM - Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads (Thruster87)
2. 03:42 AM - Re: Where did zenair.com go? (Jon Wachman)
3. 03:44 AM - Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads (kmccune)
4. 04:36 AM - Primer for painted surfaces (James E. Lanier)
5. 04:54 AM - Re: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (John Short)
6. 05:18 AM - Re: Canopy Question (dgardea(at)gmail.com)
7. 05:56 AM - Re: Where did zenair.com go? (Frank Roskind)
8. 06:16 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (steve)
9. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Canopy Question (Jason Bogli)
10. 06:43 AM - Bending thicker parts with a 1/4" radius (Debo Cox)
11. 06:43 AM - Re: Where did zenair.com go? (steveadams)
12. 06:59 AM - Letters from Chris (Bob McArdle)
13. 07:02 AM - Castellated Nuts. (Bob McArdle)
14. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Trainnut01@aol.com)
15. 07:14 AM - Re: Letters from Chris (John Davis)
16. 07:20 AM - Re: Castellated Nuts. (Gig Giacona)
17. 07:21 AM - Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads (John Marzulli)
18. 07:21 AM - NTSB report posted this morning. (gnuse)
19. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: recent accident (James E. Lanier)
20. 07:26 AM - Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? (LarryMcFarland)
21. 07:30 AM - Re: Letters from Chris (Gig Giacona)
22. 07:30 AM - Re: Where did zenair.com go? (LarryMcFarland)
23. 07:52 AM - Re: Castellated Nuts. (ashontz)
24. 08:10 AM - Re: Haven't Forgotten New Lists... (ricklach)
25. 08:28 AM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Jim McBurney)
26. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (John Warren)
27. 08:36 AM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Jim McBurney)
28. 09:02 AM - Re: Canopy Question (DaveG601XL)
29. 09:02 AM - Re: Castellated Nuts. (ashontz)
30. 09:33 AM - Re: Canopy Question (dgardea(at)gmail.com)
31. 09:43 AM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (n85ae)
32. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Canopy Question (Jay Maynard)
33. 10:23 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Tim Juhl)
34. 10:29 AM - Re: Building again (Tim Juhl)
35. 11:37 AM - 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Matt Ronics)
36. 11:56 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Paul Mulwitz)
37. 12:03 PM - Re: Where did zenair.com go? (John Reinking)
38. 12:25 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (LarryMcFarland)
39. 12:52 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Matt Ronics)
40. 01:00 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Jay Maynard)
41. 01:18 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
42. 01:20 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Scotsman)
43. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Jay Maynard)
44. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (Dave Austin)
45. 01:49 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Terry Phillips)
46. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (John Davis)
47. 01:54 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
48. 02:05 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
49. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (James E. Lanier)
50. 02:14 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
51. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Jay Maynard)
52. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Jay Maynard)
53. 02:36 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (GBzodiflyer)
54. 02:54 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Steve Shuck)
55. 03:55 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Southern Reflections)
56. 03:55 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (TxDave)
57. 04:02 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Southern Reflections)
58. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (James E. Lanier)
59. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
60. 04:46 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (kmccune)
61. 05:18 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Bryan Martin)
62. 05:41 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (ella)
63. 05:41 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? (Bryan Martin)
64. 06:01 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Bryan Martin)
65. 06:02 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (mwtucker)
66. 06:07 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Mitch Hodges)
67. 06:08 PM - Re: Primer for painted surfaces (Ron Lendon)
68. 06:17 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Bryan Martin)
69. 06:17 PM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (Bryan Martin)
70. 06:17 PM - Re: Bending thicker parts with a 1/4" radius (Ron Lendon)
71. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Gary Gower)
72. 07:37 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (mwtucker)
73. 07:46 PM - banker for moneyto pay engi. to test zenith wing and wing spar ect. (Southern Reflections)
74. 08:00 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Jerry Shepard)
75. 08:43 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Matt Ronics)
76. 09:00 PM - Re: banker for moneyto pay engi. to test zenith wing and wing s (Matt Ronics)
77. 09:10 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Gary Gower)
78. 09:42 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (n85ae)
79. 09:46 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (n85ae)
80. 10:59 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Gary Gower)
81. 11:02 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads |
Howdy, We restore vintage aircraft like the C47/DC3 and we use Duralac on the sheet/skin
mating surfaces only,but there is usually enough that seems to gets
under the rivet heads.These aircraft are over 60yrs old and they were only ever
Zinc chromated at build time on the inner skins.AS a ongoing protection we use
a remedial product [ACF-50 or Ardrox]to displace moisture and leave a protective
film that prevents attacks from other abusive elements found in the atmosphere.
Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178384#178384
Message 2
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| Subject: | Where did zenair.com go? |
Try zenithair.com
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Roskind
Sent: Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Where did zenair.com go?
It's not working for me either
do not archive
> Subject: Zenith-List: Where did zenair.com go?
> From: ccgreenberg@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:32:33 -0700
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Haven't been able to connect with the zenair.com web site for a couple of
days now. Anybody else having troubles getting their web site to open up?
This could make a guy feel very lonely.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178328#178328
>
>
>
&=======================
>
>
>
_____
More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
<http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refres
h_instantaccess_042008>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads |
I like this idea, I have stripes on the skin that I have to polish out!
Ron Lendon wrote:
> I dip the rivets in primer before pulling, then wipe off the excess.
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178394#178394
Message 4
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| Subject: | Primer for painted surfaces |
What kind of primer do you recommend for painted surfaces? Does the
surface need to be scuffed?
Jim
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Look on ebay they have hundreds, bought one for $40 and have built over half
of my 701 without any problems. Just add a little oil and maybe make an
adjustment now and then.
John (Scratch building 701)
Kaufman, Tx
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation?
>
> I bought the green one in the ZAC toolkit. Was not happy with it. It's
> purely pnuematic, and "harsh".
>
> While visiting Quality Sport Planes in Cloverdale, I struck up a
> conversation about riveters with one of the airplane builders, and he let
> me pull a couple rivets on a 701 with his HF gun.
>
> Big difference. You put oil in it. I bought one on the spot, and have
> used it ever since.
>
> Patrick
> XL/Corvair
> N63PZ (reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178350#178350
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
Reading these posts reminded me that when I ordered my fuselage kit a couple months
back I purposely excluded the Zenith canopy from the order since I intended
to order one from Todd's Canopies. Since I pick up my fuselage kit at Zenith
next month, I thought I'd call Todd's Canopies yesterday to see what the lead
time was for ordering a 601XL canopy. Todd answered the phone promptly, was
very polite and helpful, and mentioned he will soon be supplying his canopies
directly to Zenith and that the 601XL model is no longer available directly from
him. He also apparently built a couple new designs for Zenith that they are
evaluating for incorporation into the kit. He described the prototype as slightly
longer overall and potentially two piece, i.e., the larger portion may hinge
forward with a portion remaining aft incorporating a roll bar. When I make
my trip to Mexico, MI in a couple weeks, I hope to get some information from
Zenith about the timeframe for availability.
Regards
Dave Gardea
601XL - wings and tail done / working on Corvair conversion
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
do not archive
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
wings done - working on corvair while waiting for fuselage kit
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178416#178416
Message 7
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| Subject: | Where did zenair.com go? |
Even the link on zenithair.com to the 640 is a link to zenair, and didn't w
ork for me yesterday. There are three companies (at least) in the Heintz f
amily, including zenair, zenithair, and AMD. Each one serves a particular
function, separate from the others.
do not archive
From: jwachman@optusnet.com.auTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Zen
ith-List: Where did zenair.com go?Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:38:58 +1000
Try zenithair.com
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank RoskindSent: Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12
:53 PMTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Zenith-List: Where did zena
ir.com go?
It's not working for me either do not archive> Subject: Zenith-List: Where
did zenair.com go?> From: ccgreenberg@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:
32:33 -0700> To: zenith-list@matronics.com> > --> Zenith-List message poste
d by: "seattle" <ccgreenberg@yahoo.com>> > Haven't been able to connect wit
h the zenair.com web site for a couple of days now. Anybody else having tro
ubles getting their web site to open up? This could make a guy feel very lo
nely.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/
viewtopic.php?p=178328#178328> > > &============
============> > >
More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Back to work after baby'how do you know when you=92re ready?
http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=
5797498&ocid=T067MSN40A0701A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
Nope.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Maynard" <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote:
>> In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just
>> must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.
>
> Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was
> the
> top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
> AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
Jason Bogli
The Law Office of Jason Bogli LLC
198R Salmon Brook Street
Granby, CT 06035
860 653 7701
860 413 9342
www.jboglilaw.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dgardea(at)gmail.com" <dgardea@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:15 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Question
> <dgardea@gmail.com>
>
> Reading these posts reminded me that when I ordered my fuselage kit a
> couple months back I purposely excluded the Zenith canopy from the order
> since I intended to order one from Todd's Canopies. Since I pick up my
> fuselage kit at Zenith next month, I thought I'd call Todd's Canopies
> yesterday to see what the lead time was for ordering a 601XL canopy. Todd
> answered the phone promptly, was very polite and helpful, and mentioned he
> will soon be supplying his canopies directly to Zenith and that the 601XL
> model is no longer available directly from him. He also apparently built a
> couple new designs for Zenith that they are evaluating for incorporation
> into the kit. He described the prototype as slightly longer overall and
> potentially two piece, i.e., the larger portion may hinge forward with a
> portion remaining aft incorporating a roll bar. When I make my trip to
> Mexico, MI in a couple weeks, I hope to get some information from Zenith
> about the timeframe for availability.
>
> Regards
>
> Dave Gardea
> 601XL - wings and tail done / working on Corvair conversion
> http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Dave Gardea
> 601XL - Corvair
> wings done - working on corvair while waiting for fuselage kit
> http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178416#178416
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 8:34 AM
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Bending thicker parts with a 1/4" radius |
Hey airplane dudes,
I've been scratching my head about how to bend some of the thicker parts with
a 1/4" radius bend in them. I came up with a retrofit for use with my "Dave's
Brake" that will do just that. (I actually made another "Dave's Brake" purpose-built
for bending thicker parts, but you could retrofit yours.)
If you're interested, go to www.mykitlog.com/debo and check out the entries that have "Beefy Brake" in the title.
Just trying to share a little information.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
Making fuselage parts
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Where did zenair.com go? |
My guess is that they are revamping the website after the recent changes in the
company putting Zenair in charge of the CH640 and the Alarus, and leaving AMD
with the 601 slsa and the patriot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178430#178430
Message 12
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| Subject: | Letters from Chris |
Where can I find letters from Chris. Particularly interested in new
elevator travel guidelines.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Castellated Nuts. |
The plans indicate using locknuts on the control cables attack points
but my friend (AI) says must use castellated nuts with cotter pins.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Andrew
I use the Zenith gun and have found that the best pressures for me are 45#
for A-4s and 60 #s for A-5s. Get a real pressure regulator, that flow
restricter that they send with the gun doesn't work well. Be sure and keep the
bolts
in the gun tight. The bolts in the case tend to work loose and if they get to
loose the housing will break. (I'm not going to tell you how I know).
Carroll
do not archive
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Letters from Chris |
Hi Bob,
You can access the letters on the Zenither Builders website under
601XL/Builder Updates.
John
601Xl - Jab 3300
Burnsville, NC
Bob McArdle wrote:
> Where can I find letters from Chris. Particularly interested in new
> elevator travel guidelines.
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Castellated Nuts. |
I, as usual, don't have the plans in front of me but thinking of the cable connections
I have done according to the plans.
1. Rudder Horn- castellated nuts with cotter pins.
2. Rudder control at the pedals- castellated nuts with cotter pins.
3. Elevator at the stick- castellated nuts with cotter pins.
4. Elevator horn- castellated nuts with cotter pins.
I do have older plans and kit so they might have changed it.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178444#178444
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Primer Under Rivet Heads |
I prime the external areas before riveting. This is probably overkill for
most people, but my bird is going to end up on floats... in an area with
brackish water,
Good luck!
DO NOT ARCHIVE.
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:45 PM, dfmoeller <dfmoeller@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
> At the risk of starting another thread on primers (which I don't intend to
> do), I have a question. Almost everybody primes the internal feying
> surfaces. It appears though that nobody is priming the external rivet lines
> before riveting. Is there a reason that the interfacial surfaces between
> the rivet head and the aluminum won't corrode? It would seem to me that a
> prime place to trap moisture would be under the rivet heads. Am I
> overlooking something?
>
> Doug
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178311#178311
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 18
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| Subject: | NTSB report posted this morning. |
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 080421X00519&key=1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178445#178445
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: recent accident |
preliminary report on Polk Fl accident
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id 080421X00519&key=1
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? |
Not a dumb question Andrew,
and you don't have to be embarrassed as we've all made minor mistakes.
The hazard is not correcting them when we see them.
I'd recommend you make adjustments that allow you to lay a yardstick or
such across the ribs to get them aligned. It may only take
drilling out the rivets, or clamping and drilling for the next size
rivet, or making the rib over. This would be a good time to learn the
art of
replacing a bad part with one built from scratch. It'll save you a lot
of money. The misalignment would probably be easily seen, so
I'd go for the fix and hold onto your sense of what's right. Go for it.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Andrewlieser wrote:
>
> Hey everyone, I am looking for a bit of advice on my rib alignment for my rudder.
I am getting ready to rivet my rudder "skeleton" together this weekend
and noticed that my 3rd rib is approximately 1-2 mm off center. The lip of the
rib actually is recessed a tad on one side and protrudes a tad from the spar
on the other. This my be knit picky or it may not be but I am new at this and
would like to know if this is within the tolerances of the design. I am learning
a great deal about what methods get me the best results right now so I apologize
if this is a dumb question. Thanks in advance,
>
> Andrew [Embarassed]
>
> --------
> Andrew Lieser
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178323#178323
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Letters from Chris |
Speaking of which, I installed the new elevator limiting stops this weekend. Total
time to install: 25 minutes.
One plus. I hadn't realized it but an edge of the elevator would have worn the
nav light and trim control wire I had coming from the tail with out the stop.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178448#178448
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| Subject: | Re: Where did zenair.com go? |
Hi Seattle,
The site might only be in maintenance. Try this link,
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/index1.html
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
seattle wrote:
>
> Haven't been able to connect with the zenair.com web site for a couple of days
now. Anybody else having troubles getting their web site to open up? This
could make a guy feel very lonely.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178328#178328
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Castellated Nuts. |
I believe the rule is, anything bolt that's subject to torsional forces, like a
pivot point, should have a castelle nut and cotter pin.
Additionally, any locking nut application (not a cotter pin nut) that's in a high
heat area, like the engine compartment, should use a fully metal lock nut,
not a nylon insert for the locking effect. Of course, you should never reuse a
locknut of either type. You're probably supposed to always use a new cotter pin
too whenever a castelle nut is reinstalled.
[quote="rmacpunk(at)netzero.net"]The plans indicate using locknuts on the control
cables attack points but my friend (AI) says must use castellated nuts with
cotter pins.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178453#178453
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| Subject: | Re: Haven't Forgotten New Lists... |
Thanks for the update Matt. Looking forward to the new list.
Rick
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178460#178460
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Hi, Mike (and List),
I built 75% of my 801 using the cheap HF gun, after the $80 one from Zenith
blew apart. Also, the HF unit fits into a lot of places that the Zenith
unit won't. I even pulled AS5 stainless steel rivets in my firewall with
the HF gun! I'm not a fan of Chinese goods, but they did a winner with that
rivet puller.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Castellated Nuts. |
Wrong.
AC43.13-1B 7-64.f You can reuse if minimum prevailing torque is met. For
the smaller diameters we use mostly you can reuse as long as noticeable
drag is felt when engaging the locking area. Also if you can remove a
cotter pin without rendering it unusable then it wasn't installed
properly. AC43.13-1B 7-127
-Gus
ashontz wrote:
> Of course, you should never reuse a locknut of either type. You're probably supposed
to always use a new cotter pin too whenever a castelle nut is reinstalled.
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
One more comment: Nosepieces from the Zenith gun will fit the HF gun.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
Dave,
I just got my canopy from Todd's. It took about 2 weeks as advertised and it arrived
in great shape. If he is going to be the Zenith supplier and no longer
shipping direct to customers, I would order right now. His price was a little
over half of what Zenith currently charges. I ordered the hardware portion
of the canopy kit from Zenith and Todd's canopy fits it just fine, so far. The
canopy I received from Todd was longer and higher than those I have seen on
other finished 601XL's. Maybe this is the 'prototype' size you mentioned. I
only trimmed it a little bit, leaving it on the large side. I hope to be finished
with my canopy install in the next week or so. I am looking forward to information
on the new two-piece design you said Todd mentioned. It would be nice
if it was easily retrofittable to current 601's in case I decided to change
sometime down the road.
Good Luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, working on final assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178472#178472
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| Subject: | Re: Castellated Nuts. |
I said probably. Even so, for 99 cents I'd probably just put a new one in there.
Gus(at)flywithgus.com wrote:
> Wrong.
>
> AC43.13-1B 7-64.f You can reuse if minimum prevailing torque is met. For
> the smaller diameters we use mostly you can reuse as long as noticeable
> drag is felt when engaging the locking area. Also if you can remove a
> cotter pin without rendering it unusable then it wasn't installed
> properly. AC43.13-1B 7-127
>
> -Gus
>
> ashontz wrote:
>
> > Of course, you should never reuse a locknut of either type. You're probably
supposed to always use a new cotter pin too whenever a castelle nut is reinstalled.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178471#178471
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
David,
Yep, I wish had ordered a while back for that reason exactly .. buying from Zenith
will be more expensive. Yesterday Todd was not willing to sell directly to
me as he now has a deal with Zenith, as recently as Sun-n-Fun, to be their supplier
for the 601XL canopies. When I head out there in two weeks I hope to talk
with Sebastien about their plans for and price on Todd's supplied canopy.
Regards,
Dave
do not archive
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
wings done - working on corvair while waiting for fuselage kit
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
I've built TWO planes with the same harbor freight gun, I oiled it once and
keep the pressure up around 100 psi. I've dropped it a half dozen times
and at this point if it falls apart I'll be happy for the use I got out of it.
I'd buy another in a second.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Question |
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:30:08AM -0700, dgardea(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Yep, I wish had ordered a while back for that reason exactly .. buying
> from Zenith will be more expensive. Yesterday Todd was not willing to sell
> directly to me as he now has a deal with Zenith, as recently as Sun-n-Fun,
> to be their supplier for the 601XL canopies. When I head out there in two
> weeks I hope to talk with Sebastien about their plans for and price on
> Todd's supplied canopy.
Interesting. I wonder whether AMD will be using Todd's canopies, and when.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
Maneuvering speed is not depicted on the ASI. It varies with weight, actually
decreasing as the weight of the aircraft decreases. In my 1968 C172, maneuvering
speed at gross was 122 mph. Funny thing is, the airplane's cruise speed was
less. Such was not the case with my 182 which had a maneuvering speed of 126
mph but cruised at 155.
In the case of the XL, you'll want to slow down when it gets bumpy :-)
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178486#178486
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| Subject: | Re: Building again |
Glad to hear it! We expect great things to come from your efforts :-)
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178487#178487
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| Subject: | 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
If Zenith had any sense of responsibility they would ground the XL fleet (insofar
as they can advise) pending further review of this problem (meaning until the
problem is found and dealt with...no more pictures of sandbags). It's one
thing to plug and chug on a computer then throw sandbags on a structure and call
it sound.
Anyone ever hear of the de Havilland Comet? Look it up and read. Serious design
problem found only after fleet started operations. Read about Phase IV of
pharmaceutical trials...which monitors medications for problems once released
to the general public (monitoring for problems that wouldn't have been noticed
in the earlier smaller trials). While I don't have the numbers on XL fleet hours
vs wing folds, I would bet dollars to donuts that there is a statistically
significant finding there. It would seem that Zenith is betting their business
(and people's lives) on the notion that pilots just don't fly their planes
correctly.
Some of you have a "bite of your nose to spite you face" approach to experimental
aviation. Well, I'm a homebuilder and pilot too. If we don't police ourselves,
we get policed.
At any rate, rather at "this rate" of accidents, a lawsuit will come sooner or
later that will force someone's hand...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178498#178498
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
At 09:15 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote:
>Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the
>top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?
I thought the top of the white arc was the flap extended speed, Vfe.
I think I've seen a yellow line crossing the green that reflects Va,
but Va varies a great deal with changes in actual aircraft weight.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Where did zenair.com go? |
Tues the 22nd 11:58am/PST
Works now.
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Hi guys,
The frequency of this problem compared with the common ones is too low
to be completely Zenith's problem. When you sell kits, you entertain
the idea that there are at least a percentage of the builders that
couldn't or wouldn't build or fly to recommended guidelines. The
prospect of a defect which makes it easy to foul the strength of the
lower spar caps and surrounding wing structure is a possibility. I'd
still contend that people that stay with the plans and and build
strictly to the drawings are never going to see a problem. If you read
the ntsb records for the 601 of recent, you'd probably come to the same
conclusion.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Matt Ronics wrote:
>
> If Zenith had any sense of responsibility they would ground the XL fleet (insofar
as they can advise) pending further review of this problem (meaning until
the problem is found and dealt with...no more pictures of sandbags). It's one
thing to plug and chug on a computer then throw sandbags on a structure and
call it sound.
>
> Anyone ever hear of the de Havilland Comet? Look it up and read. Serious design
problem found only after fleet started operations. Read about Phase IV of
pharmaceutical trials...which monitors medications for problems once released
to the general public (monitoring for problems that wouldn't have been noticed
in the earlier smaller trials). While I don't have the numbers on XL fleet
hours vs wing folds, I would bet dollars to donuts that there is a statistically
significant finding there. It would seem that Zenith is betting their business
(and people's lives) on the notion that pilots just don't fly their planes
correctly.
>
> Some of you have a "bite of your nose to spite you face" approach to experimental
aviation. Well, I'm a homebuilder and pilot too. If we don't police ourselves,
we get policed.
>
> At any rate, rather at "this rate" of accidents, a lawsuit will come sooner or
later that will force someone's hand...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178498#178498
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> I'd
> still contend that people that stay with the plans and and build
> strictly to the drawings are never going to see a problem. If you read
> the ntsb records for the 601 of recent, you'd probably come to the same
> conclusion.
>
The accident discussed here involves a plane that was manufactured by the Czech
Aircraft Works (I don't know if one would call this a factory built or not).
I don't know anything about Czech, but insofar as they previously manufactured
aircraft under agreement with Zenith, I would ASSuME that Czech could manufacture
an aircraft with at least the competency of the average homebuilder.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178510#178510
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 02:22:19PM -0500, LarryMcFarland wrote:
> I'd still contend that people that stay with the plans and and build
> strictly to the drawings are never going to see a problem.
Except that we've now had two factory-built aircraft that appear to have had
inflight breakups... While it's too soon to expect a final report from the
NTSB on the Florida crash, it would be nice if they'd say what happened in
Yuba City.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
First time on this site. The aircraft lost a wing. I know what the family is
going through. I went through it Nov. 6th 2006 when I lost my parents from an
inflight breakup of their Certified AMD Zodiac 601XL SLSA. Beautiful day, sunny,
no wind, no turbulence etc. Cruising along going to lunch.
Question: Was the Czech Aircraft works aircraft assembled in Georgia?
Thanks for any information.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178514#178514
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Is this the same incident as sun n fun one or is it another? while i understand
that we should not speculate on the cause it does make me wonder then on what
"factual" basis zenith released the elevator modification. Was there direct
evidence of over deflection at high speed or was the mod based on speculation
as to likely cause. Getting quite tired of the lack of clarity from all parties
regarding the accidents. J
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 01:15:27PM -0700, PLAV8R wrote:
> First time on this site. The aircraft lost a wing. I know what the
> family is going through. I went through it Nov. 6th 2006 when I lost my
> parents from an inflight breakup of their Certified AMD Zodiac 601XL SLSA.
> Beautiful day, sunny, no wind, no turbulence etc. Cruising along going to
> lunch.
I'm truly sorry for your loss, and especially the circumstances surrounding
it. I'm sure you're more anxious to get the results of the NTSB
investigation into it than any of the rest of us.
> Question: Was the Czech Aircraft works aircraft assembled in Georgia?
No. Czech Aircraft Works was, as the name implies, a Czech company that
built the CH601XL aircraft in the Czech Republic under license from Zenair.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Castellated Nuts. |
Here in Canada a castellated nut and lock pin must be installed at any place
where the nut/bolt combination is not torqued up. That covers pretty well
everything where a bolt is used as a pivot.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
At 11:34 AM 4/22/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>If Zenith had any sense of responsibility they would ground the XL fleet
>(insofar as they can advise) pending further review of this problem
>(meaning until the problem is found and dealt with...no more pictures of
>sandbags). It's one thing to plug and chug on a computer then throw
>sandbags on a structure and call it sound.
I'll not comment on what Zenith should or should not do.
I want to address the issue of an independent engineering analysis of the
601XL wing that was raised some months ago, I believe following the
Barcelona accident.
Andy Shontz had started a thread asking for Zenith-Listers to respond if
they would be willing to financially support an engineering analysis of the
601XL wing. Andy was not able to pursue the analysis, so I asked a former
colleague, Don Rabern (who is now Dean of Engineering at Embry-Riddle
Aeronautical Univerisity, Prescott, Arizona), if he could recommend someone
who would be both capable of and interested in doing the analysis. Don
responded with two names. After a few days of working our way through their
spam filters, I have established contact with Mark Sensmeier, an Assistant
Professor of Engineering with a B.S. in Aeronautical and Astronautical
Engineering from Purdue University and a Ph.D. in Engineering Mechanics
from Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. He is interested
and we are planning to talk later this week about the problem.
Assuming that our talks are productive, my plan is to approach the List
again to solicit real cash (as opposed to expressions of interest) so that
we can develop some sort of contract for the work to be done and the amount
to be paid. Don suggested that it might be "great fun" to test an actual
wing in their structures lab. With a bit of luck, I may finish my right
wing in an appropriate time frame, and I *might* be willing to have them do
some (non-destructive) testing on my wing. We will have to wait and see if
that looks to be worthwhile.
I would envision establishing a bank account for something like the "Zenith
Builders Analysis Group" to handle the money. There are two other 601
builders in my neighborhood, one of whom could provide a second signature
on all checks and/or withdrawals to provide some fiscal discipline for the
"Group."
I am posting this as a progress report. Comments and/or suggestions are
welcome. I would be happy to send to any interested person my informational
emails to Mark .
Terry
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Hi Donald,
So sorry to hear about the loss of your parents.
The Czech Aircraft works is based in the Czech Republic and has nothing
to do with AMD in Georgia. Do you have any additional information beyond
that in the NTSB prelim report ? The witness report seems to imply some
type of engine trouble then an explosion. Of course we all know these
witness reports can be way off.
John Davis
601XL - Jab 3300
Burnsville, NC
PLAV8R wrote:
>
> First time on this site. The aircraft lost a wing. I know what the family is
going through. I went through it Nov. 6th 2006 when I lost my parents from
an inflight breakup of their Certified AMD Zodiac 601XL SLSA. Beautiful day,
sunny, no wind, no turbulence etc. Cruising along going to lunch.
> Question: Was the Czech Aircraft works aircraft assembled in Georgia?
>
> Thanks for any information.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178514#178514
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Hi Jay,
I don't doubt that the airframe and wings where build by Czech aircraft, however,
they don;t ship completed aircraft. As far as I know, all the major assemblies
are completed here.
Each time an incident happens with another Zodiac the NTSB will gather the information
on the current accident and see if it applies to my parents.
I and 2 of my three brother are pilots and have been for a long time. My father
flew since WWII and did not take chances.
He used to have a Grumman Tiger that he loved, but decided he didn't what the
hassle of the Flight Exams. He wanted a certified aircraft with a continental
engine (He got it) He and my mother were in very good health.
Thanks,
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178523#178523
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Hi John.
NTSB Identification: NYC08FA158
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Monday, April 07, 2008 in Polk City, FL
Aircraft: Chech Aircraft Works SPOL SRO CH 601 XL RTF, registration: N357DT
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On April 7, 2008 about 1700 eastern daylight time, a Czech Aircraft Works SPOL
SRO CH 601 XL RTF, N357DT, was substantially damaged when it impacted trees and
terrain following an uncontrolled descent near Polk City, Florida. The certificated
private pilot/owner was fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions
prevailed, and no flight plan was filed for the flight which departed Williston
Municipal Airport (X60), Williston, Florida and was destined for Lakeland
Linder Regional Airport (LAL), Lakeland, Florida. The personal flight was conducted
under 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.
According to friend of the accident pilot, they both shared a hangar at Lumpkin
County Airport (9A0) in Dahlonega, Georgia, and they planned to fly their respective
airplanes to an air show in Lakeland, Florida. The accident pilot departed
Dahlonega about 1240, and the friend departed about at 1300. During the flight
the friend passed the accident pilot, landed at Williston Airport for a
planned fuel stop, and subsequently departed. He last spoke to the accident pilot
about 1500, as the accident pilot approached Williston. The accident pilot
planned to land about 1530, and stated that his airplane was "running fine."
Review of fuel receipts revealed that the pilot purchased fuel in Williston at
1607.
About 1700, a witness, located about 1/2-mile southeast of the accident site, observed
the accident airplane as it approached him from the north. He noted that
the airplane was noticeably lower than other airplanes that generally flew
in the area, and that it was in a 3- to 5-degree left bank. The airplane then
banked right, about the same magnitude, before it returned level for a moment.
About 1 to 3 seconds later, the airplane banked to the left and to the right,
significantly steeper than during the previous banks.
After banking back to level, the airplane yawed right, and the "right wing folded
up." The airplane banked right and the left wing "went up" just before the
airplane entered a nose dive. The witness described that the wings of the airplane
looked perpendicular to their normal position, and that the engine sound
changed, as the airplane descended downward. The witness heard the sound of the
engine pitch change to the point where it sounded like the engine "over sped"
as the airplane descended. He lost sight of the airplane shortly thereafter
as it descended behind a building.
Another witness, located about 1/3-mile west of the accident site, stated that
he heard a "pop" and that when he looked up he saw the accident airplane. He described
that the "right wing was folded back and to the side," and that the accident
airplane was spinning as it descended. About 8 to 10 seconds later he
heard the sounds of an impact.
The pilot held a private pilot certificate with a rating for airplane single engine
land. His most recent Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) second class
medical certificate was issued on February 29, 1980. Examination of the pilot's
logbook revealed that he had accumulated 514 total hours of flight experience,
71 hours of which were in the accident airplane make and model. According to
the pilot's friend, the pilot originally obtained a pilot certificate in the
1970's, and had recently began flying again after purchasing the accident airplane
in October 2007.
The accident airplane was manufactured in 2005 and was classified by the FAA as
a Special Light Sport Aircraft. According to maintenance records, the airplane
was factory test flown on June 16, 2005. The airplane's most recent annual conditional
inspection was completed on September 1, 2007. At the time of the inspection,
the airplane had accumulated 142 total hours of operation.
The weather conditions reported at LAL, located about 17 miles southwest of the
accident site, at 1658, included winds from 030 degrees at 4 knots, 15 statute
miles visibility, scattered clouds at 3,000 feet, broken clouds at 25,000 feet,
a temperature of 27 degrees Celsius (C), a dewpoint of 16 degrees C, and an
altimeter setting of 29.90 inches of mercury.
The airplane came to rest in a heavily wooded area and exhibited various degrees
of damage throughout. The trees in and around the accident site had been removed
to facilitate access to the wreckage. Examination of photographs taken by
first responders revealed that the airplane was lodged in the ground at an approximate
45-degree angle, and that the fuselage was positioned in an approximate
45-degree left bank. The left wing was bent upward (in the positive direction)
at the wing root approximately 90 degrees, with the remainder wrapped around
the top of the airplane. The right wing was bent 90 degrees forward about
the mid-span point, and was wrapped around a 4-inch diameter tree.
Initial examination of the wreckage revealed that the horizontal stabilizer and
rudder were separated from their respective attach points, but remained co-located
with the wreckage. Detailed examination of the left wing revealed that the
lower main wing spar cap was fractured at the wing root. Portions of the left
wing spar were retained for further examination. The remainder of the main
wing spar, which extended through the fuselage and the right wing, was bent but
remained largely intact.
Control cable continuity was confirmed from the rudder pedals to the rudder horn
attachment points. Elevator control continuity was confirmed from the cockpit
to the elevator control horn attachment point, which had been disconnected by
first responders during recovery. The electrically actuated elevator trim was
in a neutral position. Continuity of the aileron control cables was confirmed
from the cockpit to both ailerons. The electrically actuated aileron trim was
positioned at the tab trailing edge down limit. Disassembly of the aileron trim
servo revealed that the mechanism was positioned aft, in contact with a forward-facing
micro-switch. The aileron trim servo, switch, and indicator were
retained for further examination. Both wing flaps were dislodged from the stowed
position, and their actuators were broken.
The engine was located at the forward portion of the wreckage, and was buried in
6-foot deep crater. All three composite propeller blades were separated near
the propeller hub. A portion of one blade was found outside and adjacent to the
crater, while the remainder of the blades were found within the crater. Crankshaft,
gearbox, and valve train continuity were confirmed from the propeller
hub to the aft portion of the engine. The propeller hub could only be rotated
through 180 degrees of motion, and valve motion was observed on all but the number
4 cylinder intake valve. All eight spark plug electrodes were intact and
light gray in color. Examination of the oil filter revealed no evidence of any
visible metal particles.
Both fuel tanks were ruptured and absent of fuel. There was a strong odor of fuel
at the scene, and fuel was observed leaking from several fuel lines during
the recovery process. The fuel selector knob was observed in the "left" position.
Regards,
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178527#178527
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
I just read somewhere that Zenith has terminated their association with
the Czech manufacturer.
I found it
http://www.zenithair.com/news/zen-czaw-termination.pdf
PLAV8R wrote:
>
> Hi Jay,
>
> I don't doubt that the airframe and wings where build by Czech aircraft, however,
they don;t ship completed aircraft. As far as I know, all the major assemblies
are completed here.
>
> Each time an incident happens with another Zodiac the NTSB will gather the
information on the current accident and see if it applies to my parents.
> I and 2 of my three brother are pilots and have been for a long time. My father
flew since WWII and did not take chances.
> He used to have a Grumman Tiger that he loved, but decided he didn't what the
hassle of the Flight Exams. He wanted a certified aircraft with a continental
engine (He got it) He and my mother were in very good health.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178523#178523
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
>From the Yuba City incident.
http://www.cbs13.com/video/?id=13553@kovr.dayport.com
http://www.cbs13.com/video/?id=13559@kovr.dayport.com
Regards,
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178529#178529
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 01:51:44PM -0700, PLAV8R wrote:
> I don't doubt that the airframe and wings where build by Czech aircraft,
> however, they don;t ship completed aircraft. As far as I know, all the
> major assemblies are completed here.
True. Typically, final assembly and checkout are completed by the importer.
I do not know who imported the CZAW aircraft, but I do not believe it was
AMD.
> He used to have a Grumman Tiger that he loved, but decided he didn't what
> the hassle of the Flight Exams. He wanted a certified aircraft with a
> continental engine (He got it) He and my mother were in very good health.
Ouch. That sounds a lot like me, except the last part...
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 05:06:49PM -0400, James E. Lanier wrote:
> I just read somewhere that Zenith has terminated their association with
> the Czech manufacturer.
> http://www.zenithair.com/news/zen-czaw-termination.pdf
Note that that was effective at the end of 2006.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Hi Guys , new to this list .
But not to the aircraft , I currently own a 601 xl tail dragger which i built
and have 100 hrs on , this was a czaw 49% kit , and has some minor differences
, ie composite main gear etc , so structurally i believe the same as the US
version , also built and owned a ch601 ul again with around 140 hrs . Have overseen
6 or more kit builds .
as an engineer , for more years than i care to remember , i read these accident
reports with interest , especially when my backside is at risk .
The eye witness reports indicate some rolling and yawing before the fold ,
the report says that the spars were in tact but bent , but what about the rear
attach point ? have any tests been done sand bags and all , to see what happens
when you loose that rear fixing , the mechanics of what happens with a non
vertical leaning main-spar are quite frightening , then couple that to the xl
flap drive arrangement .
for example - you loose the rear attach, the wing will go negative, that then
will force the flap down , and thus aggravate the problem .
As an owner and builder of this sporty design , with a close friend which has
just spent his hard earned wages on a new xl kit, I now feel very strongly that
all avenues of failure must be explored . pilot error will always be with
us , but structural failure is a real concern .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178539#178539
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Terry, You have my support.We probably should start keeping track of all those
interested in supporting with cash so we can finally get these tests complete
and we can fly, (or not fly)with safety and elation.
Steve Shuck
N8830C
2006 601XL Jabiru 3300
Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net> wrote:
At 11:34 AM 4/22/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>If Zenith had any sense of responsibility they would ground the XL fleet
>(insofar as they can advise) pending further review of this problem
>(meaning until the problem is found and dealt with...no more pictures of
>sandbags). It's one thing to plug and chug on a computer then throw
>sandbags on a structure and call it sound.
I'll not comment on what Zenith should or should not do.
I want to address the issue of an independent engineering analysis of the
601XL wing that was raised some months ago, I believe following the
Barcelona accident.
Andy Shontz had started a thread asking for Zenith-Listers to respond if
they would be willing to financially support an engineering analysis of the
601XL wing. Andy was not able to pursue the analysis, so I asked a former
colleague, Don Rabern (who is now Dean of Engineering at Embry-Riddle
Aeronautical Univerisity, Prescott, Arizona), if he could recommend someone
who would be both capable of and interested in doing the analysis. Don
responded with two names. After a few days of working our way through their
spam filters, I have established contact with Mark Sensmeier, an Assistant
Professor of Engineering with a B.S. in Aeronautical and Astronautical
Engineering from Purdue University and a Ph.D. in Engineering Mechanics
from Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. He is interested
and we are planning to talk later this week about the problem.
Assuming that our talks are productive, my plan is to approach the List
again to solicit real cash (as opposed to expressions of interest) so that
we can develop some sort of contract for the work to be done and the amount
to be paid. Don suggested that it might be "great fun" to test an actual
wing in their structures lab. With a bit of luck, I may finish my right
wing in an appropriate time frame, and I *might* be willing to have them do
some (non-destructive) testing on my wing. We will have to wait and see if
that looks to be worthwhile.
I would envision establishing a bank account for something like the "Zenith
Builders Analysis Group" to handle the money. There are two other 601
builders in my neighborhood, one of whom could provide a second signature
on all checks and/or withdrawals to provide some fiscal discipline for the
"Group."
I am posting this as a progress report. Comments and/or suggestions are
welcome. I would be happy to send to any interested person my informational
emails to Mark .
Terry
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Phillips" <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
>
> At 11:34 AM 4/22/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>>If Zenith had any sense of responsibility they would ground the XL fleet
>>(insofar as they can advise) pending further review of this problem
>>(meaning until the problem is found and dealt with...no more pictures of
>>sandbags). It's one thing to plug and chug on a computer then throw
>>sandbags on a structure and call it sound.
>
> I'll not comment on what Zenith should or should not do.
>
> I want to address the issue of an independent engineering analysis of the
> 601XL wing that was raised some months ago, I believe following the
> Barcelona accident.
>
> Andy Shontz had started a thread asking for Zenith-Listers to respond if
> they would be willing to financially support an engineering analysis of
> the 601XL wing. Andy was not able to pursue the analysis, so I asked a
> former colleague, Don Rabern (who is now Dean of Engineering at
> Embry-Riddle Aeronautical Univerisity, Prescott, Arizona), if he could
> recommend someone who would be both capable of and interested in doing the
> analysis. Don responded with two names. After a few days of working our
> way through their spam filters, I have established contact with Mark
> Sensmeier, an Assistant Professor of Engineering with a B.S. in
> Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering from Purdue University and a
> Ph.D. in Engineering Mechanics from Virginia Polytechnic Institute and
> State University. He is interested and we are planning to talk later this
> week about the problem.
>
> Assuming that our talks are productive, my plan is to approach the List
> again to solicit real cash (as opposed to expressions of interest) so that
> we can develop some sort of contract for the work to be done and the
> amount to be paid. Don suggested that it might be "great fun" to test an
> actual wing in their structures lab. With a bit of luck, I may finish my
> right wing in an appropriate time frame, and I *might* be willing to have
> them do some (non-destructive) testing on my wing. We will have to wait
> and see if that looks to be worthwhile.
>
> I would envision establishing a bank account for something like the
> "Zenith Builders Analysis Group" to handle the money. There are two other
> 601 builders in my neighborhood, one of whom could provide a second
> signature on all checks and/or withdrawals to provide some fiscal
> discipline for the "Group."
>
> I am posting this as a progress report. Comments and/or suggestions are
> welcome. I would be happy to send to any interested person my
> informational emails to Mark .
>
> Terry
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
> are done; working on the wings
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
"The left wing was bent upward (in the positive direction) at the wing root approximately
90 degrees, with the remainder wrapped around the top of the airplane....Detailed
examination of the left wing revealed that the lower main wing
spar cap was fractured at the wing root." Quote from NTSB preliminary report.
Not my words, not the words of an "eye witness", and not a bit of speculation on
my part.
SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT!! My 2 cents worth. Go ahead, flame away.
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178548#178548
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/601_crash_524.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Terry , sounds like you are doing your homework.I am willing to help with
money support. we should ask matt if he would be willing to handle the
money,I think he is a stand-up guy and also netural party that we all know
Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Phillips" <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
>
> At 11:34 AM 4/22/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>>If Zenith had any sense of responsibility they would ground the XL fleet
>>(insofar as they can advise) pending further review of this problem
>>(meaning until the problem is found and dealt with...no more pictures of
>>sandbags). It's one thing to plug and chug on a computer then throw
>>sandbags on a structure and call it sound.
>
> I'll not comment on what Zenith should or should not do.
>
> I want to address the issue of an independent engineering analysis of the
> 601XL wing that was raised some months ago, I believe following the
> Barcelona accident.
>
> Andy Shontz had started a thread asking for Zenith-Listers to respond if
> they would be willing to financially support an engineering analysis of
> the 601XL wing. Andy was not able to pursue the analysis, so I asked a
> former colleague, Don Rabern (who is now Dean of Engineering at
> Embry-Riddle Aeronautical Univerisity, Prescott, Arizona), if he could
> recommend someone who would be both capable of and interested in doing the
> analysis. Don responded with two names. After a few days of working our
> way through their spam filters, I have established contact with Mark
> Sensmeier, an Assistant Professor of Engineering with a B.S. in
> Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering from Purdue University and a
> Ph.D. in Engineering Mechanics from Virginia Polytechnic Institute and
> State University. He is interested and we are planning to talk later this
> week about the problem.
>
> Assuming that our talks are productive, my plan is to approach the List
> again to solicit real cash (as opposed to expressions of interest) so that
> we can develop some sort of contract for the work to be done and the
> amount to be paid. Don suggested that it might be "great fun" to test an
> actual wing in their structures lab. With a bit of luck, I may finish my
> right wing in an appropriate time frame, and I *might* be willing to have
> them do some (non-destructive) testing on my wing. We will have to wait
> and see if that looks to be worthwhile.
>
> I would envision establishing a bank account for something like the
> "Zenith Builders Analysis Group" to handle the money. There are two other
> 601 builders in my neighborhood, one of whom could provide a second
> signature on all checks and/or withdrawals to provide some fiscal
> discipline for the "Group."
>
> I am posting this as a progress report. Comments and/or suggestions are
> welcome. I would be happy to send to any interested person my
> informational emails to Mark .
>
> Terry
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
> are done; working on the wings
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
That was tragic. The Yuba City crash was November of 2006. The NTSB has
yet to finalize the report.
I think all of you should read some of these reports. Either the NTSB is
incompetent, or just plain disinterested. They hardly ever discover the
cause of light aircraft mishaps nor do they share pertinent data in
those reports. If there are eyewitnesses, they typically base their
final "probable cause" on their statements.
Compare this British report to any of the light aircraft NTSB reports
and see if you can see my point. (see link below)
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Zenair%20CH601UL,%20G-YOXI%2005-07.pdf
If you are waiting for an NTSB report...don't hold your breath and don't
expect any answers.
PLAV8R wrote:
>
> First time on this site. The aircraft lost a wing. I know what the family is
going through. I went through it Nov. 6th 2006 when I lost my parents from
an inflight breakup of their Certified AMD Zodiac 601XL SLSA. Beautiful day,
sunny, no wind, no turbulence etc. Cruising along going to lunch.
> Question: Was the Czech Aircraft works aircraft assembled in Georgia?
>
> Thanks for any information.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178514#178514
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
I noted the statement had the following. Would wonder what was lightened and
modified. Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE
"In the early 90s, Heintz entered into a license agreement with Czech
Aircraft Works of Stare Mesto, Czech
Republic, to produce and market his STOL CH 701 and ZODIAC CH 601 designs
for the European market.
The Czech-produced Zodiacs were modified and lightened to meet European
rules for "microlight" aircraft.
CZAW produced some 750 such machines under this agreement."
In a message dated 4/22/2008 5:11:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim.lanier@charter.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "James E. Lanier"
<jim.lanier@charter.net>
I just read somewhere that Zenith has terminated their association with
the Czech manufacturer.
I found it
http://www.zenithair.com/news/zen-czaw-termination.pdf
.
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
I didn't know that! :D
jmcburney(at)pobox.com wrote:
> One more comment: Nosepieces from the Zenith gun will fit the HF gun.
>
> Blue skies and tailwinds
>
> Jim
> CH-801
> DeltaHawk diesel
> Augusta GA
>
> 90% done, 90% left
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178557#178557
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
If I was building airplanes for a living and pulled thousands of rivets
every day, I would probably buy a professional quality, expensive
rivet puller. For building one airplane and pulling a few thousand
rivets total, the inexpensive Harbor Freight riveter worked just fine. I
built the whole airplane with it with no problem and it still works fine.
>
> I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've searched the
archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a few times, but
is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that said to not skimp on the
rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good one...
>
> Any feedback on this?
>
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Hi
Do you know the price of the HF gun?
Getting started 601 xl scratch builder
Thanks Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet Gun Recommendation?
>
> If I was building airplanes for a living and pulled thousands of rivets
> every day, I would probably buy a professional quality, expensive rivet
> puller. For building one airplane and pulling a few thousand rivets total,
> the inexpensive Harbor Freight riveter worked just fine. I built the whole
> airplane with it with no problem and it still works fine.
>
>>
>> I'm looking for a recommendation on a pneumatic rivet gun... I've
>> searched the archives and see that the one from Harbor Freight appears a
>> few times, but is "low cost"... I read an article in Kitplanes that said
>> to not skimp on the rivet gun and expect to pay $200 for a good one...
>>
>> Any feedback on this?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> Zenith 601XL N61BM
> Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab (rudder) question??? |
That much mis-alignment will probably be noticeable in the finished
rudder. Re-clamping and carefully drilling out the holes for A5 rivets
will probably fix the problem. If not, making a new rudder rib isn't
very difficult, its just a two straight bends.
>
> Hey everyone, I am looking for a bit of advice on my rib alignment for my rudder.
I am getting ready to rivet my rudder "skeleton" together this weekend
and noticed that my 3rd rib is approximately 1-2 mm off center. The lip of the
rib actually is recessed a tad on one side and protrudes a tad from the spar
on the other. This my be knit picky or it may not be but I am new at this and
would like to know if this is within the tolerances of the design. I am learning
a great deal about what methods get me the best results right now so I apologize
if this is a dumb question. Thanks in advance,
>
> Andrew [Embarassed]
>
> --------
> Andrew Lieser
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
They list three on their website:
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=riveter&Submit=Go
I think the one I have is the one listed for $34.99. I would have to
check the model number to be sure. These riveters may be available at
their outlet stores also, I mail ordered mine.
>
> Hi
> Do you know the price of the HF gun?
> Getting started 601 xl scratch builder
> Thanks Don
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Can someone give me the part number of the Harbor Freight gun? Or do they only
sell one?
--------
Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178568#178568
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
burbby wrote:
> I purchased mine from Northern Tool Company. It was around $70 and it works
fine. I used the heads from the rivet gun from Zenith in it with no problems.
...
> ---
I can verify the Northern Tool one works great, with the Zenith heads. I also have
Stanley MR77C manual rivet puller, with a 360 degree swiveling head that works
great for tight spots or weird angles. The heads also fit it.
http://tinyurl.com/3wjqyv
--------
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Wings Under Perpetual Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178571#178571
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| Subject: | Re: Primer for painted surfaces |
DuPont Variprime 615S/625S Self-Etching Primer is what I use.
Many times I just wipe down the surface with alcohol or Lacquer thinner and apply
with a brush. It is expensive but it sticks real good.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178574#178574
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
The top of the white arc is the maximum operating speed with full flaps
(Vfe). Maneuvering speed is not a standard marking on the ASI. It is
usually found in the POH for gross weight and decreases with decreasing
weight of the airplane.
Jay Maynard wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote:
>> In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just
>> must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.
>
> Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the
> top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed |
The top of the white arc is the maximum operating speed with full flaps
(Vfe). Maneuvering speed is not a standard marking on the ASI. It is
usually found in the POH for gross weight and decreases with decreasing
weight of the airplane.
Jay Maynard wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Bryan Martin wrote:
>> In the U.S. there is no placard required tor maneuvering speed, it just
>> must be included in the pilot's operating handbook.
>
> Okkay, dumb question time. I'd always thought that maneuvering speed was the
> top of the white arc on the airspeed indicator. Is this not correct?
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Bending thicker parts with a 1/4" radius |
Looking good Debo.
One of the tricks of the trade are to just two way tape a piece or two of metal
to the bending device and make a bend radius larger that way. Leave the piece(s)
stuck there to function as the .25r and remove them to set the brake back
to standard .125r
YMMV
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178576#178576
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Hello No-name (unsigned messages),
Please, Lets hold on a minute. First there is no Official Confirmation about
a wing failure in this particular accident, in the first place.
Second, We (all over the world) that are pilots (or at least we can control
an airplane fairly acceptable), just need to read the newspapers or watch the
news in the TV of any accident aviation related, to see the most far from reality
facts there.
Some times are not really "bad intention" from the reporter.
What they say (news men) in their favor is that the news guys only writes what
the witness (most of the time with cero aviation knowlege) "told him", they
keep the tape as proof, plus they mght add a little "imagination", "personal
research" and "aviation related words he thinks he knows" and the final result
is really strange, sometimes even "comical" for us pilots, that have a
liitle bit or real aviation knowledge.
Remember also that aviation accidents and artist divorces Sells newspapers,
this sells comercial spotts, etc :-) :-) So they need to make the report "Interesting",
for say the least.
What we are all doing right now Here in the List, is waiting for the official
results, given that NON ONE OF US in the list, have the credentials or know
facts first hand, to even THINK about the enginering design of the airplane
or less about the experience or knowledge or medical condition of the pilot
in the moment of the accident.
SIMPLY because we were not there or know nothing about this.
Acting like you are now can be embaracing, because in my city, (talking without
facts) is only admited to ladies in the market or at the laundry shop...
I will beg you to wait a little, like all of us to read from the Real Source
before having to say Im Sorry, my bad....
Also we PILOTS (if your are one(?) need to show respect for other pilots and
airplane designers, this is first of all not talking as truth what YOU are not
sure is fact, mostly if this is doing harm to them, in any way.
Saludos
Gary Gower (My real name)
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
701 912S
Building a 601 XL Jab 3300 Fuselage finished.
DO NOT ARCHIVE. SORRY, MY APOLOGIZE, BUT I NEEDED TO SAY THIS
Matt Ronics <e_jocular@yahoo.com> wrote:
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> I'd
> still contend that people that stay with the plans and and build
> strictly to the drawings are never going to see a problem. If you read
> the ntsb records for the 601 of recent, you'd probably come to the same
> conclusion.
>
The accident discussed here involves a plane that was manufactured by the Czech
Aircraft Works (I don't know if one would call this a factory built or not).
I don't know anything about Czech, but insofar as they previously manufactured
aircraft under agreement with Zenith, I would ASSuME that Czech could manufacture
an aircraft with at least the competency of the average homebuilder.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178510#178510
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Why are special heads from Zenith Aircraft required?
It looks like the standard sizes are 3/32, 1/8, 5/32 and 3/16 ? These seem to
be the heads that are standard on different guns...
--------
Awaiting delivery of RANS S-19 Empennage Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178589#178589
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| Subject: | banker for moneyto pay engi. to test zenith wing and wing |
spar ect.
Matt would you be willing to be the netural party to hold any monies
sent to you to pay for this effort, and pay out as needed ? we could
use your help and I am sure we all trust you. Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Arm chair analysis: April 7th crash.
I know nothing for a fact!!!!
1. In Chris's letter he acknowleged that some of the 601's had experienced
an (in-flight breakup)(Pilot or builder abuse or error)
2. There are 2 witness that said that the RIGHT wing folded.
3. The NSTB report stated that the right wing was bent at about the
midpoint, (also wraped around a tree) Midpoint was about the place at least
one other 601 wing failed.
4. The left wing "going up would be consistant with a lack of a right wing.
and the other damage may have been caused by the impact.
5. The pilots shallow banks, then steeper banks would be consistent with a
pilot trying to figure out a problem with the airplanes controllability.
6. I sure would hope that the NSTB or someone in the know would quickly
point to the failure sequence of events as to what failed first to allow the
right wing to fold so it might be addressed. They may not as
fore. ------- We all may have our own ideas, I still feel that the skins
are coming loose. Just my opinion. Ballistic chute anyone??? The ZAC 601
landing gear weighs 11# more than the Grove 601 gear (1320# rated). I
suspect that that 11# might be put to better use elswhere like somewhere
arount the wings.
PS if you wish to look to someone character, look to see if they are willing
to take responsibility for their actions or if there is always a "fall guy",
then make up your own mind.--- Original Message -----
From: "TxDave" <dclaytx2@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
>
> "The left wing was bent upward (in the positive direction) at the wing
> root approximately 90 degrees, with the remainder wrapped around the top
> of the airplane....Detailed examination of the left wing revealed that the
> lower main wing spar cap was fractured at the wing root." Quote from NTSB
> preliminary report.
>
>
> Not my words, not the words of an "eye witness", and not a bit of
> speculation on my part.
>
> SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT!! My 2 cents worth. Go ahead, flame away.
>
> Dave Clay
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178548#178548
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/601_crash_524.jpg
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Hello No-name (unsigned messages),
>
> Please, Lets hold on a minute. First there is no Official Confirmation about
a wing failure in this particular accident
For reasons some people such as yourself can't understand, some of us have professional
and/or personal reasons not plaster our name on the internet. I'm
not a troll and I don't work in the airplane business. I'm not an agent provocateur.
I am a 701 builder bewildered by the lackadaisical attitude on this subject
both by the designer and some of the builders. I am a PPL and have completed
a previous homebuilt. I have no concern about the 601HD/S or 701.
Now just what kind of "Official Confirmation" do you need Gary? Just what exactly?
What kind of letterhead? What internet domain? Who needs to knock on your
door? How many death certificates? Just what kind of evidence would convince
you?
I'm not trying to kid myself and others that the half-finished XL in my garage
is safe because--I don't have one.
A few months ago several Zenith builders said "let's wait for the results."
In the mean time, it APPEARS that we have lost another soul in an accident that
may have been preventable.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178602#178602
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| Subject: | Re: banker for moneyto pay engi. to test zenith wing and |
wing s
[quote="purplemoon99(at)bellsouth"]Matt would you be willing to be the netural
party to hold any monies sent to you to pay for this effort, and pay out as needed
? we could use your help and I am sure we all trust you. Joe N101HD
601XL/RAM
> [b]
If you're talking to me, Matt is just an on-line pseudonym (sorry). While I am
a researcher with a doctorate, this is not my field.
Regarding holding the money and/or finding an engineer (if the other fellow doesn't
work out), I might suggest simply working through a local EAA chapter or
calling HQ for advisement. Of course calling Zenith and working through them
would be best...would give the AE a running start to have such access.
Frankly, I would be surprised that a faculty academic would take on this project
for money. I would assume that the respective university would have to grant
approval for the project, which might be troublesome politically etc. On the
other hand, doing this kind of analysis really gets some people going.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178603#178603
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Do you have the NTSB report? is not in this page:
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/
Also No Signed Message.... Hope you are not playing with us. Hope is not a
Spamer
If you realy had that loss. Why not sign with Your Name?
Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 01:15:27PM -0700, PLAV8R wrote:
> First time on this site. The aircraft lost a wing. I know what the
> family is going through. I went through it Nov. 6th 2006 when I lost my
> parents from an inflight breakup of their Certified AMD Zodiac 601XL SLSA.
> Beautiful day, sunny, no wind, no turbulence etc. Cruising along going to
> lunch.
I'm truly sorry for your loss, and especially the circumstances surrounding
it. I'm sure you're more anxious to get the results of the NTSB
investigation into it than any of the rest of us.
> Question: Was the Czech Aircraft works aircraft assembled in Georgia?
No. Czech Aircraft Works was, as the name implies, a Czech company that
built the CH601XL aircraft in the Czech Republic under license from Zenair.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
---------------------------------
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Message 78
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
Just buy harbor freight's el-cheapo hand riveter the heads fit the pneumatic
riveter. Pop the heads in a drill get it spinning and have at it with a dremel
with a round grinding bit. I made several in just a little time in an evening.
It's really very simple to do.
The Zenith hand riveter heads do NOT fit the harbor freight.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178606#178606
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Here's an interesting article:
http://www.tsgc.utexas.edu/archive/general/ethics/vtail.html
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178607#178607
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Hello List,
My sincere apologize to all of you, Should have keept my temper... Sorry for
this posts, yes, we all are waiting for oficial report, I will not post anything
about this matter, Good or Bad, until a serious report is here.
Not my type of posts, probably a result of the normal pressure in everyday work,
well hope you all forgive me... I will try not to happen anymore.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala. Mexico
Back to building the 601 XL....
Do not Archive.
Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello No-name (unsigned messages),
Please, Lets hold on a minute. First there is no Official Confirmation about
a wing failure in this particular accident, in the first place.
Second, We (all over the world) that are pilots (or at least we can control
an airplane fairly acceptable), just need to read the newspapers or watch the
news in the TV of any accident aviation related, to see the most far from reality
facts there.
Some times are not really "bad intention" from the reporter.
What they say (news men) in their favor is that the news guys only writes what
the witness (most of the time with cero aviation knowlege) "told him", they
keep the tape as proof, plus they mght add a little "imagination", "personal
research" and "aviation related words he thinks he knows" and the final result
is really strange, sometimes even "comical" for us pilots, that have a
liitle bit or real aviation knowledge.
Remember also that aviation accidents and artist divorces Sells newspapers,
this sells comercial spotts, etc :-) :-) So they need to make the report "Interesting",
for say the least.
What we are all doing right now Here in the List, is waiting for the official
results, given that NON ONE OF US in the list, have the credentials or know
facts first hand, to even THINK about the enginering design of the airplane
or less about the experience or knowledge or medical condition of the pilot
in the moment of the accident.
SIMPLY because we were not there or know nothing about this.
Acting like you are now can be embaracing, because in my city, (talking without
facts) is only admited to ladies in the market or at the laundry shop...
I will beg you to wait a little, like all of us to read from the Real Source
before having to say Im Sorry, my bad....
Also we PILOTS (if your are one(?) need to show respect for other pilots and
airplane designers, this is first of all not talking as truth what YOU are not
sure is fact, mostly if this is doing harm to them, in any way.
Saludos
Gary Gower (My real name)
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
701 912S
Building a 601 XL Jab 3300 Fuselage finished.
DO NOT ARCHIVE. SORRY, MY APOLOGIZE, BUT I NEEDED TO SAY THIS
Matt Ronics <e_jocular@yahoo.com> wrote:
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> I'd
> still contend that people that stay with the plans and and build
> strictly to the drawings are never going to see a problem. If you read
> the ntsb records for the 601 of recent, you'd probably come to the same
> conclusion.
>
The accident discussed here involves a plane that was manufactured by the Czech
Aircraft Works (I don't know if one would call this a factory built or not).
I don't know anything about Czech, but insofar as they previously manufactured
aircraft under agreement with Zenith, I would ASSuME that Czech could manufacture
an aircraft with at least the competency of the average homebuilder.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178510#178510
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 81
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Sorry for this one also...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you have the NTSB report? is not in this page:
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/
Also No Signed Message.... Hope you are not playing with us. Hope is not a
Spamer
If you realy had that loss. Why not sign with Your Name?
Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 01:15:27PM -0700, PLAV8R wrote:
> First time on this site. The aircraft lost a wing. I know what the
> family is going through. I went through it Nov. 6th 2006 when I lost my
> parents from an inflight breakup of their Certified AMD Zodiac
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
---------------------------------
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