Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:13 AM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (Aerolitellc@aol.com)
2. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Jaybannist@cs.com)
3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Jay Maynard)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Jay Maynard)
5. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (William Dominguez)
6. 08:09 AM - Re: New to the list (kkinney)
7. 08:14 AM - wings (john butterfield)
8. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: New to the list (James E. Lanier)
9. 09:10 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
10. 09:16 AM - Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering SpeedZodiac XL - Maneuvering Speed (John Reinking)
11. 09:27 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Joe Scheibinger)
12. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Craig Payne)
13. 10:02 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Gig Giacona)
14. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: New to the list (Jay Maynard)
15. 10:09 AM - Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts (DaveG601XL)
16. 10:14 AM - DNA (Randy L. Thwing)
17. 10:25 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
18. 10:33 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PatrickW)
19. 10:45 AM - Re: Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
20. 11:05 AM - Re: Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts (LarryMcFarland)
21. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (n801bh@netzero.com)
22. 11:40 AM - Re: Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts (DaveG601XL)
23. 11:42 AM - Re: Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts (Gig Giacona)
24. 11:48 AM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
25. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (Juan Vega)
26. 12:55 PM - Re: Castellated Nuts. (Jim McBurney)
27. 12:55 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (Jim McBurney)
28. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Craig Payne)
29. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (James E. Lanier)
30. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (John Davis)
31. 01:38 PM - CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (James E. Lanier)
32. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Kevin Bonds)
33. 02:03 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (ashontz)
34. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (John Davis)
35. 02:07 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (MHerder)
36. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (John Warren)
37. 02:17 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (ashontz)
38. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Southern Reflections)
39. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Craig Payne)
40. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (SABorns@aol.com)
41. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Craig Payne)
42. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (Kevin Bonds)
43. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
44. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
45. 02:49 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Gig Giacona)
46. 02:54 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (Gig Giacona)
47. 03:01 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (James E. Lanier)
48. 03:04 PM - Re: Castellated Nuts. (Gig Giacona)
49. 03:13 PM - ()
50. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (Craig Payne)
51. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (george may)
52. 03:40 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (ashontz)
53. 03:47 PM - 601HD (ashontz)
54. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
55. 04:06 PM - Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? (mwtucker)
56. 04:08 PM - Re: DNA (John Bolding)
57. 04:08 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (Sabrina)
58. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. ()
59. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (Jay Maynard)
60. 04:27 PM - Sun N Fun Thank You ()
61. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. ()
62. 04:56 PM - Re: Castellated Nuts. (leinad)
63. 05:03 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (Mark Sherman)
64. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (n801bh@netzero.com)
65. 05:14 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (Terry Turnquist)
66. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (Bryan Martin)
67. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (Jay Maynard)
68. 05:56 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (ashontz)
69. 06:08 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (Sabrina)
70. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Castellated Nuts. (n801bh@netzero.com)
71. 06:09 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PatrickW)
72. 06:13 PM - Re: 601HD (LarryMcFarland)
73. 06:22 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (PatrickW)
74. 06:22 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (ashontz)
75. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (Southern Reflections)
76. 06:40 PM - Re: Sun N Fun Thank You (Ron Lendon)
77. 07:37 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
78. 07:40 PM - Re: Really bad news....S&F crash (PLAV8R)
79. 08:15 PM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (PLAV8R)
80. 10:36 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Castellated Nuts. |
I would recommend not using castellated nuts for the rudder cables that
attach to the foot peddles and whatever Zenith indicates everywhere else. There
were a couple of people that have worked the cotter pins out with their shoes
catching the pin and Van's aircraft had you change out the castle nuts and
replace them with nylon locking nuts. And I found you could have the same
problem with the 601.
The plans indicate using locknuts on the control cables attack points but
my friend (AI) says must use castellated nuts with cotter pins.
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Gary,
Right on Amigo! It is, as we say North of the border, the blind leading the blind.
And guess where that leads.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello No-name (unsigned messages),
>
> Please, Lets hold on a minute. First there is no Official Confirmation about
a wing failure in this particular accident, in the first place.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:04:15PM -0700, Gary Gower wrote:
> Do you have the NTSB report? is not in this page:
The NTSB has not released a probable cause for the accident that cost
PLAV8R's parents their lives as yet. That's the AMD Zodiac that crashed in
Yuba City, N158MD.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 08:39:29PM -0700, Matt Ronics wrote:
> For reasons some people such as yourself can't understand, some of us have
> professional and/or personal reasons not plaster our name on the internet.
As a minor celebrity, I've got as much reason as anyone to want to divorce
myself from my words. My sense of integrity does not allow me to do so.
> I'm not a troll and I don't work in the airplane business.
Prove it.
> I'm not trying to kid myself and others that the half-finished XL in my
> garage is safe because--I don't have one.
I'm not either, even though I've got more reason than a lot of folks to want
to be sure - since I'm paying a six-figure sum to AMD for my Zodiac, above
and beyond the common factor of it being my butt in the cockpit. I'll
readily admit that I won't have the years of effort invested that most of
the folks on here do, however. (I'm jealous of those who are building:
they'll know their aircraft in a way I never will.)
> A few months ago several Zenith builders said "let's wait for the
> results." In the mean time, it APPEARS that we have lost another soul in
> an accident that may have been preventable.
True. OTOH, all we can do now is speculate, and that's not going to be any
better at producing a fix if one is needed.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Guys, there is an official report. Perhaps you missed them. Here it is:
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id 080421X00519&key=1
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
Gary,
Right on Amigo! It is, as we say North of the border, the blind leading the blind.
And guess where that leads.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
Gary Gower wrote:
> Hello No-name (unsigned messages),
>
> Please, Lets hold on a minute. First there is no Official Confirmation about
a wing failure in this particular accident, in the first place.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New to the list |
OK, I'm a little behind on reading the lists.
Is this *THE* Jay Maynard of Hercules fame?
Dude! LOVE your work. And Rogers, naturally.
I'm a z9 BC sysprog without access to an HMC or console. Don't ask
Any changes I need to make that involve HMC/console access (which are most of them)
are first tested on your product. Without your product, I wouldn't be able
to do my job.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
We now return you to your aircraft oriented email list.
Regards,
Kevin Kinney
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178660#178660
Message 7
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hi list
i have been following the conversations regarding the
potential weakness of the wing design. i personally
believe it is due to over stressing the wing by the
pilot.
That said, i still feel in my heart i cannot take a
passenger up without a definitive finding regarding
wing strength and or design. the only possible
solution is for extensive testing by a qualified firm.
as i don't even know the qualifications i will let
the group decide on whom can do it.
the bottom line is really this, would you take up your
son or daughter aloft in the XL right now? i would
not.
john butterfield
XL, corvair
torrance, ca
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New to the list |
Kevin Kinney? The musician?
I saw you at Athfest a couple of times. Good fun and good music.
Later,
Jim (Athens GA)
kkinney wrote:
>
> OK, I'm a little behind on reading the lists.
>
> Is this *THE* Jay Maynard of Hercules fame?
>
> Dude! LOVE your work. And Rogers, naturally.
> I'm a z9 BC sysprog without access to an HMC or console. Don't ask
> Any changes I need to make that involve HMC/console access (which are most of
them) are first tested on your product. Without your product, I wouldn't be
able to do my job.
>
> Thank you, thank you, thank you.
>
> We now return you to your aircraft oriented email list.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin Kinney
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178660#178660
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Sorry, I had a typo on the date......should have been November 4th, 2006.
Here is the NTSB report.
NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, November 04, 2006 in Yuba City, CA
Aircraft: Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, registration: N158MD
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On November 4, 2006, about 1139 Pacific standard time, an Aircraft Manufacturing
& Development Co., CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, experienced an in-flight breakup while
cruising approximately 8 nautical miles south of Yuba City, California. The
airplane was destroyed. The private pilot, who was a co-owner of the airplane,
and a passenger were fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed,
and no flight plan had been filed. The flight was performed under the provisions
of 14 CFR Part 91, and it originated from Lincoln, California, about
1129.
A ground-based witness reported hearing the airplane as it approached his location.
The witness stated that the airplane's engine was "missing" and its power
was "on and off." Seconds later the witness heard the sound of an explosion and
observed the center section of the airplane falling straight down.
All of the airplane's structural components were located in adjacent open fields
during the National Transportation Safety Board's on-scene investigation. The
wreckage consisted of the following components, which were separated from each
other: left wing (without aileron); right wing (with aileron); main landing
gear assembly; cockpit, engine with attached propeller blades; aileron (left
wing); and empennage. There was no evidence of oil spray on any of the components,
and there was no evidence of fire.
The wreckage has been recovered and detailed airframe and engine examinations are
ongoing
Regards,
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178667#178667
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL - Maneuvering SpeedZodiac XL - Maneuvering |
Speed
Wed 4/23 9:12am PST
Just tried zenair.com and zenithair.com. both came up immediately.
John Reinking
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
"About 1700, a witness, located about 1/2-mile southeast of the accident
site, observed
the accident airplane as it approached him from the north. He noted that
the airplane was noticeably lower than other airplanes that generally flew
in the area, and that it was in a 3- to 5-degree left bank. The airplane
then
banked right, about the same magnitude, before it returned level for a
moment.
About 1 to 3 seconds later, the airplane banked to the left and to the
right,
significantly steeper than during the previous banks.
After banking back to level, the airplane yawed right, and the "right wing
folded
up." The airplane banked right and the left wing "went up" just before the
airplane entered a nose dive."
Lets hold off for just a little while yet while we wait for the autopsy
report. Could the pilot have suffered a medical condition like a heart
attack or stroke that would have incapasitated him for a few moments? He may
have been helpless at the controls. I think you could pull the wings off any
plane if you were slumped over the controls. Does anyone know if the autopsy
results are in?
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Don, it has been more than 15 months since your parent's tragic accident.
Have you received any information on the progress of the investigation? Any
indication of AMD's involvement in the investigation?
-- Craig
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
First let me fix the bad link
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 080421X00519&key=1
and if that doesn't work here's a TinyURL http://tinyurl.com/6k5g9o
That is a preliminary report and makes no ruling on the cause of the accident.
The first line of the report states, "This is preliminary information, subject
to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected
when the final report has been completed."
William Dominguez wrote:
> Guys, there is an official report. Perhaps you missed them. Here it is:
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178680#178680
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New to the list |
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 08:06:11AM -0700, kkinney wrote:
> Is this *THE* Jay Maynard of Hercules fame?
Yup! (And this is different from the usual "Is this *THE* Jay Maynard, the
Tron Guy?".)
> Dude! LOVE your work. And Rogers, naturally.
> I'm a z9 BC sysprog without access to an HMC or console. Don't ask
> Any changes I need to make that involve HMC/console access (which are most
> of them) are first tested on your product. Without your product, I
> wouldn't be able to do my job.
It's not just my work. There's a dedicated development team who have put a
lot of work into the system, and it shows. I'm pleased to be associated with
them.
For those of you who think C-130 when you hear "Hercules", the one Kevin's
referring to is an open source emulator for IBM mainframes that runs on
Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X. You can find out more at
http://www.hercules-390.org .
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts |
When I flew my AMD601XL check ride a few weeks ago, I noticed two things about
the canopy: 1. I was not totally comfortable with latching the canopy and had
to do it twice to reassure myself that it was secured. 2. When we opened the canopy
upon returning, I almost was not able to grab it quickly enough to prevent
it from blowing open due to the windy day.
At Oshkosh last year, there was a customer built 601XL in the Zenith booth that
had a modification which caught my eye. This XL had a bar going horizontally
across from one side of the aft canopy support hoop to the other at just around
shoulder level. The picture I took of it is attached to this post. I guess
I can see both positive and negative attributes to this bar. It can give you
something to grab to help in both opening and closing the canopy. On the other
hand, I see where it could be a head knocker or a barrier to being able to
reach into the baggage area. Fortunately, in this airplane, it is bolted in
and thus easily removable if it turns out to be more of a pain than a help.
I have also seen numerous 601s with a strap or rope attached at the top of the
hoop (Macs, for example). This can be an aid in initially pulling it back to
close as well as to control the opening on a windy day.
Since I am working on my canopy now, I am interested in this and other intriguing
additions to aid with canopy operation. Does anyone out there flying have
any thoughts or suggestions on the usefulness of these types of modifications??
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, working on final assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178683#178683
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_6607_959.jpg
Message 16
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Do Not Archive
Hello Listers:
Don't forget to add "do not archive" to posts as appropriate. A lot of what
I've seen lately doesn't need to sweell the archives. As above, I lead off
with it.
Randy, Las Vegas
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Hi Craig,
No, there has been no update. Last I heard was they (NTSB) may have a "Probable
Cause" by July- Aug. Parts had been sent to Washington for metallurgical
testing etc. However, That could be curtailed if any other Zodiac 601 aircraft
had similar failures.
I can speculate as well as anyone else. This was a fine day in normal cruise.
Parents were in good health and my father had a lot of flying experience and
would not panic.
There was some history with the aircraft before it even left Eastman, Georgia.
Pitot static system did not work, auto-pilot was assembled wrong, no fluid
in the brakes, instruments exchanged with another aircraft, etc.
My brother flew it from Eastman to Lakeville, Minnesota. Then flew to Sacrament,
Ca. The plane had appr. 84 hours on it at the time of the accident. He
had to get a new magneto, cylinder replacement (was blowing out seals in the starter,
small leak). The propeller had been attached with the wrong bolts (to
long) so even when torqued to spec's it was not tight. This was noticed during
a preflight and a crack was noticed in the prop.
I could go on. I am not putting down Chris Heinz, actually I admire him. My
personal non-professional feeling is there was either metal fatigue or an assembly
issue.
Regards,
Don
--------
Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
Prior Lake, Minnesota
Cessna 175 N7656M
Cessna 140 N90123
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178686#178686
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
PLAV8R wrote:
> From the Yuba City incident.
>
> http://www.cbs13.com/video/?id=13553@kovr.dayport.com
>
> http://www.cbs13.com/video/?id=13559@kovr.dayport.com
>
> Regards,
> Don
Fellow Builders,
The video footage in the above links shows some details of the post-crash wing
root area on one of the separated wings.
*Please* forgive me if this precipitates unwarranted speculation, but there are
some areas of interest visible if you pause the video and then zoom in. I would
venture that we - actual builders - will note things here that the NTSB people
did not.
Does anyone know anything about photo enhancement? Is it possible to get better
resolution from this video?
Also, is there anyone out there who has access to more post-crash photos or video
footage or other accidents, or perhaps has actually examined Zodiac wreckage
and who can make comparisons with details visible in this footage versus what
they have seen elsewhere?
Don - thank you for sharing these with us.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178690#178690
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts |
Did you ask the owner why the bar was there? Looks to me like it could be
used to retain the baggage from flying forward. I would find it hard to use to
close the canopy as it looks like it is behind the seats. DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jerry of GA
In a message dated 4/23/2008 1:10:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_6607_959.jpg
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts |
Hi Dave,
I've had 3 occasions that my canopy wasn't latched after takeoff and
that gave me cause for finding a method to determine if the
latches are in fact secure. The suggestion taken from this list was
putting a slot that visually crosses the rear latch bar. Then
white paint was applied to the side of the bar and a white line was
applied that aligned with the bar in the fully latched condition.
Sometimes the latch is not totally secure, but it's easily seen and
corrected by tapping or re-latching. I've had no problems
since the fix. The link shows it all without paint, sorry, but it's easy
to contrast a black background and white lines from the pilot's seat.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/latchlockslot.gif
On safety strapping the canopy at the top rib; I've found myself kiting
across the airport apron like the Mayflower more than once.
Just after climbing out on the wing, the strap is easier to get hold of
and it will prevent serious damage to canopy sheet metal and
cowl in gusty conditions. You only need a thin 3/4 inch wide nylon strap
with the nylon buckles to get the job done.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/viewupperbracket.jpg
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/viewcanopyopenside.jpg
This is seriously cheap insurance for your canopy and it's easily done.
Larry McFarland
601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
DaveG601XL wrote:
>
> When I flew my AMD601XL check ride a few weeks ago, I noticed two things about
the canopy: 1. I was not totally comfortable with latching the canopy and had
to do it twice to reassure myself that it was secured. 2. When we opened the
canopy upon returning, I almost was not able to grab it quickly enough to prevent
it from blowing open due to the windy day.
>
> At Oshkosh last year, there was a customer built 601XL in the Zenith booth that
had a modification which caught my eye. This XL had a bar going horizontally
across from one side of the aft canopy support hoop to the other at just around
shoulder level. The picture I took of it is attached to this post. I guess
I can see both positive and negative attributes to this bar. It can give
you something to grab to help in both opening and closing the canopy. On the
other hand, I see where it could be a head knocker or a barrier to being able
to reach into the baggage area. Fortunately, in this airplane, it is bolted
in and thus easily removable if it turns out to be more of a pain than a help.
>
> I have also seen numerous 601s with a strap or rope attached at the top of the
hoop (Macs, for example). This can be an aid in initially pulling it back to
close as well as to control the opening on a windy day.
>
> Since I am working on my canopy now, I am interested in this and other intriguing
additions to aid with canopy operation. Does anyone out there flying have
any thoughts or suggestions on the usefulness of these types of modifications??
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, working on final assembly.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178683#178683
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_6607_959.jpg
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Donald, the other day you posted a link to a TV stations report of the a
ccident. Could you please repost it. I did watch it a coule of times and
both wings were far away from the fuselage. I want to review it again..
.. I am truly sorry for your loss..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "PLAV8R" <donald.j.dennehey@seagate.com> wrote:
om>
Hi Craig,
No, there has been no update. Last I heard was they (NTSB) may have a
"Probable Cause" by July- Aug. Parts had been sent to Washington for me
tallurgical testing etc. However, That could be curtailed if any other
Zodiac 601 aircraft had similar failures.
I can speculate as well as anyone else. This was a fine day in normal
cruise. Parents were in good health and my father had a lot of flying e
xperience and would not panic.
There was some history with the aircraft before it even left Eastman, G
eorgia. Pitot static system did not work, auto-pilot was assembled wron
g, no fluid in the brakes, instruments exchanged with another aircraft,
etc.
My brother flew it from Eastman to Lakeville, Minnesota. Then flew to
Sacrament, Ca. The plane had appr. 84 hours on it at the time of the ac
cident. He had to get a new magneto, cylinder replacement (was blowing
out seals in the starter, small leak). The propeller had been attached
with the wrong bolts (to long) so even when torqued to spec's it was not
tight. This was noticed during a preflight and a crack was noticed in
the prop.
I could go on. I am not putting down Chris Heinz, actually I admire h
im. My personal non-professional feeling is there was either metal fati
gue or an assembly issue.
Regards,
Don
--------
Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
Prior Lake, Minnesota
Cessna 175 N7656M
Cessna 140 N90123
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178686#178686
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts |
The owner was not there with the plane so I could not ask. I asked Nick Heintz
what he thought and all I got for a reply was something like 'unnecessary.'
Mac, I too have made the slot by the lever, but have not yet had the opportunity
to view it from the seat. I would think that the pilot would have a hard time
seeing his side, since it is behind him, but I will take your word for it.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, working on final assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178708#178708
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Bar Across Canopy Hoop and Other Thoughts |
So am I and let me start with this little hissy fit, "I HATE THE CANOPY."
I love the visibility it provides but it is the single worse designed thing to
build in the whole kit. I damn near lost an arm in WW's tail dragger at CC #10
when Gus was about to take me up and just as I was getting seated the canopy
started coming down.
I like the idea shown in the pic you posted Dave. One problem it might solve for
me is the canopy latches not lining up properly when I close it. Plus it gives
you a good place to attach strap from the airframe to the canopy to both stop
it from opening too far in wind and to pull it down. The fact that it also
acts as an additional stop for stuff in the baggage area from flying into the
back of your head is a bonus.
DaveG601XL wrote:
>
> Since I am working on my canopy now, I am interested in this and other intriguing
additions to aid with canopy operation. Does anyone out there flying have
any thoughts or suggestions on the usefulness of these types of modifications??
>
> Thanks,
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178709#178709
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
I do have post accident photos. I have tried in vain to attach a ZIP file to the
forum.
If you want me to send them to you email me at:
donald.j.dennehey@seagate.com
Maybe someone else will have better luck.
The components were spread out over a large area on a 15 acre orchard.
the wings were probably one hundred yards from one another. As they say in the
report, right wing, left wing, firewall forward, cockpit, and tail section.
I did not see any sign of fire, oil spray or trauma in the cockpit area. I believe
the bottom opened up and my parents exited through the bottom.
They were found about 50ft or so on either side of the engine.
I wonder what they connect the ballistic parachutes to. If it is at the attach
fitting they may save the plane and not the occupants.
Regards,
Don
--------
Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
Prior Lake, Minnesota
Cessna 175 N7656M
Cessna 140 N90123
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178711#178711
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Castellated Nuts. |
not smart to NOT use castlenuts where there is motion, the motion could back out
a noncastle nut. CAstle nuts need to be used where the is motion directly on
the nut. such as the stering rods, control horns, etc. with the correct attachements
of cotter pins there would not be problems with pins coming undone.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Aerolitellc@aol.com
>Sent: Apr 23, 2008 4:09 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Castellated Nuts.
>
>
>I would recommend not using castellated nuts for the rudder cables that
>attach to the foot peddles and whatever Zenith indicates everywhere else. There
>were a couple of people that have worked the cotter pins out with their shoes
>catching the pin and Van's aircraft had you change out the castle nuts and
>replace them with nylon locking nuts. And I found you could have the same
>problem with the 601.
>
>The plans indicate using locknuts on the control cables attack points but
>my friend (AI) says must use castellated nuts with cotter pins.
>
>
>**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
>listings at AOL Autos.
>(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Castellated Nuts. |
Hi, Bob,
Your AI is right. The rule is, if the bolt/nut is in tension (i.e., torqued
tight, no rotation) then locknuts are okay, but when ANY rotation is
present, as with clevis bolts, a castellated nut and cotter pin are
required. Makes sense.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Recommendation? |
The Zenith riveter nosepieces have been ground out concave, so as to form
the "button-head" on flathead rivets. Sizes are, as you said, standard.Blue
skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
I've received the pics from Don and will pass them on to Matt for upload to
the photo sharing area of the forum. Generally it takes Matt a few days to
do this.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PLAV8R
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash
I do have post accident photos. I have tried in vain to attach a ZIP file
to the forum.
If you want me to send them to you email me at:
donald.j.dennehey@seagate.com
Maybe someone else will have better luck.
The components were spread out over a large area on a 15 acre orchard.
the wings were probably one hundred yards from one another. As they say in
the report, right wing, left wing, firewall forward, cockpit, and tail
section.
I did not see any sign of fire, oil spray or trauma in the cockpit area. I
believe the bottom opened up and my parents exited through the bottom.
They were found about 50ft or so on either side of the engine.
I wonder what they connect the ballistic parachutes to. If it is at the
attach fitting they may save the plane and not the occupants.
Regards,
Don
--------
Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
Prior Lake, Minnesota
Cessna 175 N7656M
Cessna 140 N90123
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178711#178711
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
DO NOT ARCHIVE
If you send the zip to me, I will put it on my ftp server with a link so
that others can download it.
Jim
PLAV8R wrote:
>
> I do have post accident photos. I have tried in vain to attach a ZIP file to
the forum.
> If you want me to send them to you email me at:
> donald.j.dennehey@seagate.com
> Maybe someone else will have better luck.
>
> The components were spread out over a large area on a 15 acre orchard.
> the wings were probably one hundred yards from one another. As they say in the
report, right wing, left wing, firewall forward, cockpit, and tail section.
> I did not see any sign of fire, oil spray or trauma in the cockpit area. I believe
the bottom opened up and my parents exited through the bottom.
> They were found about 50ft or so on either side of the engine.
> I wonder what they connect the ballistic parachutes to. If it is at the attach
fitting they may save the plane and not the occupants.
>
> Regards,
> Don
>
> --------
> Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
> Prior Lake, Minnesota
> Cessna 175 N7656M
> Cessna 140 N90123
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178711#178711
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
Don was kind enough to send me his pictures and I've emailed them to the
Zenith Photoshare so they should be available soon.
After reviewing them they seem to point to a different failure mode that
the pictures I have seen from the Polk City accident. In the Polk city
accident the wings were still attached to the fuselage but were bent
along the spar. In this accident the wings aren't bent but rather are
separated from the fuselage and one picture shows the wing and the
mangled middle portion of the spar together. The other wing spar is
broken off at the innermost bolt hole on the top spar cap and the bottom
cap is missing from the wing.
The fuselage looks broken apart and separated just in front of the main
gear channel. It looks like the whole thing just came apart at that
point and around the spar carrythrough. Pretty scary looking.
It will be interesting to see what the NTSB has to say.
John Davis
601XL - Jab 3300
PLAV8R wrote:
>
> I do have post accident photos. I have tried in vain to attach a ZIP file to
the forum.
> If you want me to send them to you email me at:
> donald.j.dennehey@seagate.com
> Maybe someone else will have better luck.
>
> The components were spread out over a large area on a 15 acre orchard.
> the wings were probably one hundred yards from one another. As they say in the
report, right wing, left wing, firewall forward, cockpit, and tail section.
> I did not see any sign of fire, oil spray or trauma in the cockpit area. I believe
the bottom opened up and my parents exited through the bottom.
> They were found about 50ft or so on either side of the engine.
> I wonder what they connect the ballistic parachutes to. If it is at the attach
fitting they may save the plane and not the occupants.
>
> Regards,
> Don
>
> --------
> Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
> Prior Lake, Minnesota
> Cessna 175 N7656M
> Cessna 140 N90123
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178711#178711
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
You can download the zip from here:
www.chemroc.com/CH601/Post_crash.zip
Jim
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Really bad news....S&F crash |
John
The bottom cap was missing from the wing? Did AMD not install a bottom
cap? I am puzzled by this statement.
Kevin Bonds
John Davis wrote:
>
> Don was kind enough to send me his pictures and I've emailed them to
> the Zenith Photoshare so they should be available soon.
>
> The other wing spar is broken off at the innermost bolt hole on the
> top spar cap and the bottom cap is missing from the wing.
>
>
> John Davis
> 601XL - Jab 3300
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link |
So one wing pulled off at the root, and then the other took the center spar with
it out the plane when it went. Neat.
jim.lanier(at)charter.net wrote:
> You can download the zip from here:
>
> ww