Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:37 AM - Re: Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group (numskull99@netzero.net)
2. 04:43 AM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) (ashontz)
3. 04:59 AM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) (ashontz)
4. 05:10 AM - 601HD question (Dick)
5. 05:37 AM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) (steveadams)
6. 06:48 AM - Move to 601 List (The Keeners)
7. 06:58 AM - Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) (ashontz)
8. 07:06 AM - Re: Move to 601 List (Carlos Sa)
9. 07:16 AM - Re: Move to 601 List (Jaybannist@cs.com)
10. 07:25 AM - Re: Move to 601 List (James E. Lanier)
11. 08:02 AM - Re: Move to 601 List (Carlos Sa)
12. 09:31 AM - CH601XL Pitot Location (Dave Nixon)
13. 09:50 AM - Re: CH601XL Pitot Location (Juan Vega)
14. 09:53 AM - Re: CH601XL Pitot Location (Juan Vega)
15. 11:07 AM - Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group (Andrewlieser)
16. 12:21 PM - Re: Move to 601 List (Gig Giacona)
17. 12:25 PM - Re: CH601XL Pitot Location (Gig Giacona)
18. 01:02 PM - XL Wing Attachment Modification (japhillipsga@aol.com)
19. 01:10 PM - Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group (ashontz)
20. 01:38 PM - Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification (Tim Juhl)
21. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group (japhillipsga@aol.com)
22. 01:49 PM - Re: CH601XL Pitot Location (Tim Juhl)
23. 02:18 PM - Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification (M.Marcotte)
24. 02:27 PM - 601XL Parts for sale... (The Keeners)
25. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) (David Downey)
26. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) (David Downey)
27. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) (Southern Reflections)
28. 03:04 PM - Re: 601HD question (Bill Naumuk)
29. 03:06 PM - Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification (PatrickW)
30. 03:08 PM - Re: 601XL Parts for sale... (PatrickW)
31. 03:34 PM - Aileron Balance Fairleads (Jaybannist@cs.com)
32. 03:45 PM - Aileron Balance Fairleads (Jaybannist@cs.com)
33. 03:49 PM - Re: Aileron Balance Fairleads (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
34. 03:55 PM - Re: Aileron Balance Fairleads (Craig Payne)
35. 04:41 PM - Fix for canopies which tilt too far forward (Craig Payne)
36. 04:52 PM - Re: Aileron Balance Fairleads (Jaybannist@cs.com)
37. 05:15 PM - Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification (Cndmovn)
38. 05:26 PM - Factory shutters on firewall slots and smooth steering rods (Craig Payne)
39. 05:26 PM - Re: Move to 601 List (Cndmovn)
40. 05:35 PM - Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
41. 06:31 PM - Re: Fix for canopies which tilt too far forward (Ashley)
42. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) (Ken Lilja)
43. 08:03 PM - Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification (Frank Roskind)
44. 10:03 PM - Re: Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
45. 11:10 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
46. 11:12 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group |
I think there is allot more younger people than you may think. Im 27, and proud
to be able to build a 601XL at this age.
Derek Lewis
Do not Archive;
-- "MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com> wrote:
Andrew,
I'm 26 so you're not the very last of the dying breed! I thought I was one of
the youngest builders in the group... That is till I heard about Sabrina... She
puts us all to shame! I am truly inspired by her story though and look forward
to seeing what she will do for aviation in the future. Perhaps another Burt
Rutan! I am definitely the youngest at my local EAA chapter during our monthly
meetings by at least 25 yrs or so.
Mike Herder
Zodiac XL Builder
N318MH
6-7019
HT and Rudder Complete, Fuselage is getting ready to get front skins. I guess
I'm about 35-40% there, not bad since I picked up the kit in December 07.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180348#180348
_____________________________________________________________
Put your loved ones in good hands with quality senior assisted living. Click now!
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) |
The more I ponder this, the more it souunds like this is the problem. Probably
nothing at all wrong with the wing, until it starts shaking like hell from aileron
flutter.
Actually, I've been thinking of a design to counter balance the ailerons. Certainly
seems doable, would look good, and wouldn't cause take away from the structural
integrity of the wing. It's doable, I'm just wondering what all the proper
procedures are for actually correctly statically and dynamically balancing
an aileron is. Do you have any info on that?
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]Andy,
I am considering adding mass to my ailerons just as you would with a nose wheel
that shimmies. If you add some weight to the trailing edge of the ailerons
it would make flutter at the speeds we fly almost impossible. In the Van's RV
you add mass in the form of a steel pipe inside the ailerons. In the case of
a nose wheel you can add lead inside the wheel pant and the shear mass of the
weight make it harder to shimmy. One thing to note it has been the right wing
that folds first and that is the light aileron so while it doesn't call for
it in the plans I am seriously considering doing it. You can't counter balance
the ailerons on a 601 because you have nowhere for the counter weight to
go.
Gus, I've been thinking about aileron balance. How exactly do you balance one
to know that it will not encounter certain frequencies. Is there are procedure
for this.
I'm guessing the XLs ailerons are meant to balance each other via the control
cables? What if the cables get a slight bitof slack in them?
Also, I'll have a trim tab and servo in my XL in one of the ailerons. Even though
the plans don't mention balancing them (that I'm aware of yet) it would probably
be a good idea to balance them. That being the case I'm guessing a mod
to the outer portion of the aileron and rear spar to allow for a balance weight
is in order. Even so, that will only get me static balance, how about dynamic
balance?
Gus(at)flywithgus.com wrote:
> Just an FYI. It doesn't have to be high airspeed. Many old timers may
> remember the Ritz Standard Ultralight. Herb Ritz met the end because of
> flutter. NTSB Ritz Flutter
> For
> example my "slow" Cessna 120 has mass balanced ailerons. Factors could
> be amount (weight) of paint, freedom of movement (flex hinge vs. piano),
> additional weight behind hinge line (trim servo), and changing the
> aerodynamic qualities of the surface (trim tab deflection). Not any one
> of these factors necessarily would make a surface flutter but it may be
> a combination of all. Every surface, even a balanced one, has a natural
> frequency which it will flutter. The surface just must be balanced in a
> way that it's frequency will never be encountered within the flight
> envelope.
>
> -Gus
>
>
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851).
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180445#180445
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) |
I'd say the proper way to do it would be to balance from the front, but in theory
it also makes sense. More momentum to have to overcome on each cycle to to
get moving in the first place. Kind of like a longer pendulum on a clock, it moves
slower. Still I think the overriding effect would be that of connecting a
utility trailer to your car and then proceeding to put all the weight in the
back of the trailer, that sucker will be all over the street. Certainly the more
weight you put back there the lower the frequency would be, but it's not a
good way to trailer stuff.
[quote="notsew_evets(at)frontiern"]TRAILING EDGE ?
Oh brother.....
> ---
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180447#180447
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Has anyone purchased the nosebowl, baffling and hinged cowling from W.
Wynne for a 601HD?
Am trying to determine for a friend whether any modification is
necessary between the baffling and hinged cowling for a XL versus HD...
My friend is awaiting a previously ordered engine mount.
Thanks, Dick
please feel free to contact me off-list
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) |
I'm not going to get into the speculation bandwagon, because I think many of the
speculators don't know what they are talking about, but I have one comment.
If you are really concerned about aileron flutter, probably the surest fix would
be to build the non-hinged ailerons. I know it's too simple and not as exciting
and fun as making up ways to mass balance the ailerons, but increasing stiffness
and decreasing slop in the system is the best way to ensure the ailerons
won't flutter within the xl flight envelope.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180456#180456
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| Subject: | Move to 601 List |
Are all of the 601XL (Zodiac) builders moving to the 601 list? It will
be nice NOT to have to filter through all of the 701/801 info...
Forest K.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) |
Too late. I already made the hinged ailerons. I just like that design better. I
agree, the stiffness of the skins would act as a damper though.
steveadams wrote:
> I'm not going to get into the speculation bandwagon, because I think many of
the speculators don't know what they are talking about, but I have one comment.
If you are really concerned about aileron flutter, probably the surest fix would
be to build the non-hinged ailerons. I know it's too simple and not as exciting
and fun as making up ways to mass balance the ailerons, but increasing
stiffness and decreasing slop in the system is the best way to ensure the ailerons
won't flutter within the xl flight envelope.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180474#180474
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| Subject: | Re: Move to 601 List |
I am subscribing to all lists *and reinforcing the Delete key*.
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
tail feathers and right wing done, polishing skins for left wing.
Do NoT aRcHiVe
2008/5/1 The Keeners <kim.forest@surewest.net>:
>
> Are all of the 601XL (Zodiac) builders moving to the 601 list? It will be
> nice NOT to have to filter through all of the 701/801 info...
> Forest K.
>
>
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| Subject: | Move to 601 List |
I'm in the dark. I thought that this WAS the 601 list and that I didn't have to
do anything to be in the 601 forum. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Jay in Dallas
The Keeners <kim.forest@surewest.net> wrote:
>
>Are all of the 601XL (Zodiac) builders moving to the 601 list? It will
>be nice NOT to have to filter through all of the 701/801 info...
>Forest K.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Move to 601 List |
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=68&sid=8b6780595298acb85d1fab92b761e8ae
Jim
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
>
> I'm in the dark. I thought that this WAS the 601 list and that I didn't have
to do anything to be in the 601 forum. Please correct me if I am wrong.
>
> Jay in Dallas
>
>
> The Keeners <kim.forest@surewest.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Are all of the 601XL (Zodiac) builders moving to the 601 list? It will
>> be nice NOT to have to filter through all of the 701/801 info...
>> Forest K.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Move to 601 List |
Jay,
There are 4 lists: the "generic" zenith-list (this one, the old list), and
lists dedicated to (1) 601; (2) 640 and (3) 701, 801.
>From my post yesterday:
The traffic on the new (Zenith) lists does not get automatically posted here
(zenith-list).
If you are interested on the discussions taking place in the other three
lists, you have to subscribe to them at this URL:
http://www.matronics.com/subscription/
do not archive
Cheers
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Tail and right wing done.
Montreal, Canada
2008/5/1 <Jaybannist@cs.com>:
>
> I'm in the dark. I thought that this WAS the 601 list and that I didn't
> have to do anything to be in the 601 forum. Please correct me if I am
> wrong.
>
> Jay in Dallas
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | CH601XL Pitot Location |
I now have about 20 hours logged. And from the first, my Indicated AS ha
s
been a pretty consistent
10 - 12 kts high. Trying to get more cruise out of the Jabiru 3300 and t
he
adjustable, Sensenich prop,
I did a series of static run-ups. Finally got the prop half-way decent a
nd
noticed that my Dynon was
Indicating 15 - 20 Kts on full throttle (on the ground, tied down) and wh
en
I backed RPM off, the IAS
came down also. So, when I went flying today, I measured speed over grou
nd
vs. Indicated and
sure enough, it indicated higher than actual.
Other than moving the Zenith pitot out two more bays, does anyone know of
any other fixes?? Out two
bays would put it in the same bay with aileron bellcrank access cover.
Thanks, Dave Nixon
N107R Flying
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL Pitot Location |
what airpseed indicator instrument do you have?
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Nixon <adnasap@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: May 1, 2008 12:27 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: CH601XL Pitot Location
>
>I now have about 20 hours logged. And from the first, my Indicated AS has
>been a pretty consistent
>
>10 - 12 kts high. Trying to get more cruise out of the Jabiru 3300 and the
>adjustable, Sensenich prop,
>
>I did a series of static run-ups. Finally got the prop half-way decent and
>noticed that my Dynon was
>
>Indicating 15 - 20 Kts on full throttle (on the ground, tied down) and when
>I backed RPM off, the IAS
>
>came down also. So, when I went flying today, I measured speed over ground
>vs. Indicated and
>
>sure enough, it indicated higher than actual.
>
>Other than moving the Zenith pitot out two more bays, does anyone know of
>any other fixes?? Out two
>
>bays would put it in the same bay with aileron bellcrank access cover.
>
>
>
>Thanks, Dave Nixon
>
>N107R Flying
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL Pitot Location |
What static RPM do you have on the Jabiru at full throttle at start of take off?
It should read 2850 to 2900. 2950 at climb out at 70 to 75 mph.
AT 3000 PA on a dead air day fire wall full throttle should get you 3250 to 3300
rpm.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Nixon <adnasap@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: May 1, 2008 12:27 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: CH601XL Pitot Location
>
>I now have about 20 hours logged. And from the first, my Indicated AS has
>been a pretty consistent
>
>10 - 12 kts high. Trying to get more cruise out of the Jabiru 3300 and the
>adjustable, Sensenich prop,
>
>I did a series of static run-ups. Finally got the prop half-way decent and
>noticed that my Dynon was
>
>Indicating 15 - 20 Kts on full throttle (on the ground, tied down) and when
>I backed RPM off, the IAS
>
>came down also. So, when I went flying today, I measured speed over ground
>vs. Indicated and
>
>sure enough, it indicated higher than actual.
>
>Other than moving the Zenith pitot out two more bays, does anyone know of
>any other fixes?? Out two
>
>bays would put it in the same bay with aileron bellcrank access cover.
>
>
>
>Thanks, Dave Nixon
>
>N107R Flying
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group |
I did not know here were other younger builders on the site! It's nice to here
that! Just curious were you guys brought up around aviation or were you exposed
later on in life??? Just curios!
--------
Andrew Lieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180530#180530
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| Subject: | Re: Move to 601 List |
I read via the web forum so all it means to me is another entry in my bookmarks
but since the biggest majority of Zenith builders and filers are 601 builders
I suggest we stay where we are, here on the Zenith list. I know this is where
I'm going to post unless or until it dies.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180538#180538
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL Pitot Location |
Where is your static port? Is it on the fuselage or out on the pitot tube?
To check and see if it is a static or pitot problem tie it down and rev it again.
When it is showing you are moving when you aren't have someone cover the ports
one at a time.
If the problem is a steady state you might be able to adjust it out of the Dynon.
Of course the Dynon might show you backing up when you are on the ground with
the engine off.
Dave Nixon wrote:
> I now have about 20 hours logged. And from the first, my Indicated AS has been
a pretty consistent
> 10 - 12 kts high. Trying to get more cruise out of the Jabiru 3300 and the
adjustable, Sensenich prop,
> I did a series of static run-ups. Finally got the prop half-way decent and
noticed that my Dynon was
> Indicating 15 - 20 Kts on full throttle (on the ground, tied down) and when
I backed RPM off, the IAS
> came down also. So, when I went flying today, I measured speed over ground
vs. Indicated and
> sure enough, it indicated higher than actual.
> Other than moving the Zenith pitot out two more bays, does anyone know of any
other fixes?? Out two
> bays would put it in the same bay with aileron bellcrank access cover.
>
> Thanks, Dave Nixon
> N107R Flying
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180540#180540
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| Subject: | XL Wing Attachment Modification |
XL Friends, Flyers and Builders, I'm considering modifying the wing attachments
for my XL. I just finished attaching the wings to my RV-8a and the difference
is considerable. Beefed up rear spar
attachment clamp and a forward attachment point at the wing tip. Any of you fellows
that know RVs
understand the difference in attachment physically. Sure would reduce the wing
twising concern
that may have contributed to various crashes. Anybody have any constructive, pro-active
thoughts
on the issue?
Best regards, Bill of Georgia
601XL-3300 130 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180530#180530
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group |
I know, they work long hours drafting docs that show hours charged.
japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote:
> Andy, lawyers are not lazy! Bill of Georgia
>
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180549#180549
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| Subject: | Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification |
I've often wondered about the strength of the rear spar attachment. With all the
people stepping back there to board the plane it has to support more than just
flight loads. It is critical to maintaining the XL's wing geometry even if
the main spar carries the bulk of the load. That said, I would be reluctant
to make a major modification to the design without ZAC's blessing.
May I ask what you meant in your post where you said: "forward attachment point
at the wing tip"
Tim
do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180553#180553
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group |
Andy, you got it nearly right. We have a staff that does all that so we can spend
more time in the plotting, planning and dirty trick mode (PPDT).?It's a common
misconception that attorneys are just lowdown, greedy money grubbers. Frankly,
making money is merely a very pleasant bi-product of the enjoyment of PPDT
work, coupled with hearing the wimpers and whinning from the missfortunate we
aim it at. Best regards, Bill
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Thu, 1 May 2008 4:08 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith Builders Analysis Group
I know, they work long hours drafting docs that show hours charged.
japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote:
> Andy, lawyers are not lazy! Bill of Georgia
>
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180549#180549
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| Subject: | Re: CH601XL Pitot Location |
To check the static you might also disconnect it at the back of the dynon so your
reference is in the undisturbed air of the cockpit. Other than that, many
steam gauge ASI'S won't even read a speed under 40 kts so the phenomena may be
common in other aircraft but not observed because of the lack of sensitivity
of the instruments. Look at the position of the pitot on production aircraft
- they will have much the same relationship to the prop location as your XL.
Check out this webpage on how to use your GPS to determine your true air speed. It might be helpful - http://www.csgnetwork.com/tasgpscalc.html
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
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| Subject: | Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification |
I would look for sources of flutter before tampering with the basic
structure. I mean like this one from Joe about the trim tab:
"Use bolts to attach the horn, not rivets.
The fasteners are loaded in tension.
Mine became loose in fewer than 100 hours.
Joe E
N633Z (at) BFI
332 hours
CH601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49
On Sun, 7 May 2006"
Doesn't this look like a smoking gun?
----- Original Message -----
From: japhillipsga@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Wing Attachment Modification
XL Friends, Flyers and Builders, I'm considering modifying the wing
attachments for my XL. I just finished attaching the wings to my RV-8a
and the difference is considerable. Beefed up rear spar
attachment clamp and a forward attachment point at the wing tip. Any of
you fellows that know RVs
understand the difference in attachment physically. Sure would reduce
the wing twising concern
that may have contributed to various crashes. Anybody have any
constructive, pro-active thoughts
on the issue?
Best regards, Bill of Georgia
601XL-3300 130 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180530#180530
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| Subject: | 601XL Parts for sale... |
Anyone interested in buying the following component parts:
1. Rudder - Complete (up to plans instructions).
2. Horizontal Stab - Complete (up to plans instructions).
3. Elevator - Just about complete (needs final drill out, corrosion
prot., riveted).
4. Entire Wing Kit (component)
-Lights (landing/position)
-Baggage Locker Option
-Standard Tanks (24 Gal.)
Table/Some tools included... MAKE OFFER.
Forest K.
Rocklin, CA
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) |
Gentlemen;
Aileron balance cables do not provide mas or aerodynamic balance - they simply
complete the mechanical actuation circuit - hence balance.
Aerodynamic balance involves active aerodynamic surfaces of the control surface
that are place ahead of the effective hinge line.
Mass balance refers to mass added forward of the effective hinge line to result
in a painted, ready to fly, surface static balance (pivoting on the actual hinge)
with the leading edge about 10 down.
Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: Andy,
I am considering adding mass to my ailerons just as you would with a nose wheel
that shimmies. If you add some weight to the trailing edge of the ailerons
it would make flutter at the speeds we fly almost impossible. In the Van's RV
you add mass in the form of a steel pipe inside the ailerons. In the case of
a nose wheel you can add lead inside the wheel pant and the shear mass of the
weight make it harder to shimmy. One thing to note it has been the right wing
that folds first and that is the light aileron so while it doesn't call for
it in the plans I am seriously considering doing it. You can't counter balance
the ailerons on a 601 because you have nowhere for the counter weight to
go.
Gus, I've been thinking about aileron balance. How exactly do you balance one
to know that it will not encounter certain frequencies. Is there are procedure
for this.
I'm guessing the XLs ailerons are meant to balance each other via the control
cables? What if the cables get a slight bitof slack in them?
Also, I'll have a trim tab and servo in my XL in one of the ailerons. Even though
the plans don't mention balancing them (that I'm aware of yet) it would probably
be a good idea to balance them. That being the case I'm guessing a mod
to the outer portion of the aileron and rear spar to allow for a balance weight
is in order. Even so, that will only get me static balance, how about dynamic
balance?
Gus(at)flywithgus.com wrote:
> Just an FYI. It doesn't have to be high airspeed. Many old timers may
> remember the Ritz Standard Ultralight. Herb Ritz met the end because of
> flutter. NTSB Ritz Flutter
> For
> example my "slow" Cessna 120 has mass balanced ailerons. Factors could
> be amount (weight) of paint, freedom of movement (flex hinge vs. piano),
> additional weight behind hinge line (trim servo), and changing the
> aerodynamic qualities of the surface (trim tab deflection). Not any one
> of these factors necessarily would make a surface flutter but it may be
> a combination of all. Every surface, even a balanced one, has a natural
> frequency which it will flutter. The surface just must be balanced in a
> way that it's frequency will never be encountered within the flight
> envelope.
>
> -Gus
---------------------------------
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) |
stiffer usually does mean a different natural frequency. Maybe there is some merit
in that argument. However, haven't both forms failed for whatever reason?
I'm not going to get into the speculation bandwagon, because I think many of the
speculators don't know what they are talking about, but I have one comment.
If you are really concerned about aileron flutter, probably the surest fix would
be to build the non-hinged ailerons. I know it's too simple and not as exciting
and fun as making up ways to mass balance the ailerons, but increasing stiffness
and decreasing slop in the system is the best way to ensure the ailerons
won't flutter within the xl flight envelope.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180456#180456
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter) |
Do you know if all the planes that have had the folding problem had hinge
or hingeless ailerons, or is it a mix ? Joe N101HD 601XL?RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:54 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH601 Yuba City Photos Link (flutter)
>
> Too late. I already made the hinged ailerons. I just like that design
> better. I agree, the stiffness of the skins would act as a damper though.
>
>
> steveadams wrote:
>> I'm not going to get into the speculation bandwagon, because I think many
>> of the speculators don't know what they are talking about, but I have one
>> comment. If you are really concerned about aileron flutter, probably the
>> surest fix would be to build the non-hinged ailerons. I know it's too
>> simple and not as exciting and fun as making up ways to mass balance the
>> ailerons, but increasing stiffness and decreasing slop in the system is
>> the best way to ensure the ailerons won't flutter within the xl flight
>> envelope.
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180474#180474
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD question |
Dick-
I'd be glad to respond to you off list, but there's no e-mail link
for you.
HD, HDS, and XL all use the same components and attachment
locations. Differences are restricted to the fuel system in the XL.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick
To: Zenith-List@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:07 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD question
Has anyone purchased the nosebowl, baffling and hinged cowling from W.
Wynne for a 601HD?
Am trying to determine for a friend whether any modification is
necessary between the baffling and hinged cowling for a XL versus HD...
My friend is awaiting a previously ordered engine mount.
Thanks, Dick
please feel free to contact me off-list
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| Subject: | Re: XL Wing Attachment Modification |
> I just finished attaching the wings to my RV-8a and the difference is considerable.
If I'm not mistaken, didn't the RV-8 owned by Mr VanG himself shed it's wings,
taking two of his friends...?
Does anyone know any more about that, and if so, was there any changes made to
the airframe after that?
Patrick
XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Parts for sale... |
Sure hope you were not scared away by this list.
It's highly likely that the most dangerous thing about flying an XL is the drive
to the airport.
- Patrick
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180572#180572
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| Subject: | Aileron Balance Fairleads |
I am really confused about aileron fairleads. I am clear about the (primary) cable
fairleads and the middle balance cable fairlead.
However, on Drawing 6-B-22, at the extreme lower right corner, it calls for one
30 x 60 balance fairlead with a slot; and two 30 x 60 balance fairleads with
no hole or slot.
The drawing above this calls out "Middle Balance Fairlead 30 x 60 (4 req'd). 2
pieces: one riveted to 6B11-2 (which is the side skin), the other to 6B5-1" (which
is the seat back support); with an arrow pointing to the drawing.
The drawing shows the location of the fairleads attached to the side skin; and
shows a 30 x 60 fairlead with a hole in it running parallel with the seat back
support.
This just doesn't make sense to me. I can't tell what goes where. Someone straighten
me out - PLEASE!
Jay in Dallas CH 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
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| Subject: | Aileron Balance Fairleads |
Hold on! I think I figured it out. The missing piece is on the drawing of the
balance fairlead with a slot. It doesn't call for two of those.
As I see it, the plain 30 x 60 pieces are riveted to the seat back support up against
the inside of the side skin. The pieces with the slot are riveted to the
side skin to hold the cable very near the plain pieces.
Have I got it right?
Jay in Dallas CH 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance Fairleads |
The one on the side skin is the thru fair lead and the one on the seat back
is just to keep it from rubbing the seat back and rivets. It looks kinda like
an L when you are done. If you need any more help I can try and explain it
over the phone if you want to call me.
Jeff
502-644-8123
In a message dated 5/1/2008 6:34:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Jaybannist@cs.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com
I am really confused about aileron fairleads. I am clear about the
(primary) cable fairleads and the middle balance cable fairlead.
However, on Drawing 6-B-22, at the extreme lower right corner, it calls for
one 30 x 60 balance fairlead with a slot; and two 30 x 60 balance fairleads
with no hole or slot.
The drawing above this calls out "Middle Balance Fairlead 30 x 60 (4 req'd).
2 pieces: one riveted to 6B11-2 (which is the side skin), the other to
6B5-1" (which is the seat back support); with an arrow pointing to the drawing.
The drawing shows the location of the fairleads attached to the side skin;
and shows a 30 x 60 fairlead with a hole in it running parallel with the seat
back support.
This just doesn't make sense to me. I can't tell what goes where. Someone
straighten me out - PLEASE!
Jay in Dallas CH 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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| Subject: | Aileron Balance Fairleads |
Yes, see the attached shots.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Balance Fairleads
Hold on! I think I figured it out. The missing piece is on the drawing of
the balance fairlead with a slot. It doesn't call for two of those.
As I see it, the plain 30 x 60 pieces are riveted to the seat back support
up against the inside of the side skin. The pieces with the slot are
riveted to the side skin to hold the cable very near the plain pieces.
Have I got it right?
Jay in Dallas CH 601XL N2630J "Lil Bruiser"
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| Subject: | Fix for canopies which tilt too far forward |
With my XL QBK I followed the 6-C-03A photo guide and aligned the lip of the
bubble 190mm back from the firewall rivet line. Once I got to the point of
actually being able to tilt the canopy up I found that the forward lip of
the canopy (even without the rubber trim) extends below the level of the
front skin. In other words if my cowling was installed the lip of the canopy
would hit it.
The best way to fix this prob