Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:47 AM - Re: Compound curve at rear of outside canopy flashing? (LarryMcFarland)
2. 07:53 AM - Re: N5886Q???? Interesting story...... (Andrewlieser)
3. 10:53 AM - Another XL Down - Brazil (Iberplanes IGL)
4. 11:25 AM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (MHerder)
5. 11:28 AM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Craig Payne)
6. 11:30 AM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Juan Vega)
7. 11:31 AM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Steve Shuck)
8. 11:45 AM - Another XL Down - Brazil (Craig Payne)
9. 12:46 PM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (swater6)
10. 12:52 PM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Iberplanes IGL)
11. 02:03 PM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (TxDave)
12. 02:47 PM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (MHerder)
13. 02:55 PM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (MHerder)
14. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (LarryMcFarland)
15. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (William Dominguez)
16. 04:50 PM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Carlos Sa)
17. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Craig Payne)
18. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (LarryMcFarland)
19. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Jerry Shepard)
20. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (William Dominguez)
21. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Kevin Bonds)
22. 07:26 PM - First flight (Frank Probst)
23. 07:42 PM - Re: First flight (cookwithgas)
24. 07:44 PM - Re: First flight ()
25. 08:07 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (Cndmovn)
26. 08:25 PM - Re: First flight (Terry Phillips)
27. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (ihab.awad@gmail.com)
28. 09:02 PM - Re: First flight (Jeff)
29. 09:11 PM - Re: First flight (LHusky@aol.com)
30. 10:17 PM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (moorecomp)
31. 10:51 PM - Re: Another XL Down - Brazil (TxDave)
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| Subject: | Re: Compound curve at rear of outside canopy flashing? |
Craig,
This is the place where your scratch builder instinct has to take over.
The outside of the square frame tube and the latch plate must be flush
outside.
I'd be inclined to grind off the lip, bend inward the latch plate just
behind the latch to gain radius enough to realign with the fuselage.
There's no need
for a compound radius as you'll find the flashing will contact the
fuselage and then scrape on it every time it's closed. You may have to
add radius to
the square tube to get it perfectly aligned with the side skin. The
contact edge with the fuselage skin and support bow can be compensated
by adding a patch
of leather or fabric to the inside bottom edge of the rear flashing.
Drawing 6-C-2 shows the relationship of the side frames with the latch
plate, but the
top view is exaggerated a bit. Remove the acrylic. Rework for your best
radius and alignment first. Then go for the flashing, and then the canopy.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/insideangle.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/cnpybowsrearqtr.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/insideanglecuts.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyframeup.gif
You may can fit the side flashing before the canopy to get the alignment
and acquire slight curvatures first.
Having to work around the canopy acrylic is risky until your bows side
frames and flashing fit clecoed in place.
The link to my canopy page is: Click the image to get a larger picture.
www.macsmachine.com/html/canopy.htm
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Craig Payne wrote:
> I'm working on the minefield which is the XL canopy. My current
> problem/question is how to wrap the outside flashing around the last bit of
> the canopy's curve. On the steel canopy frame supplied with my QBK the plate
> the latch is welded to doesn't curve in from bottom to top to follow the
> curve of the canopy. It isn't even flat - it curves out (two pictures
> attached). The lip is most pronounced along the upper edge of the plate
> between the rear of the actual latch mechanism and the tube that the rear
> canopy bow inserts into.
>
> So the flashing has to curve around this lip AND curve around to meet the
> rear of the canopy. Unless I buy an English wheel and develop a new skill
> quickly I don't see how to do this. I see a few possible fixes:
>
> - grind/cut off the worst of the lip while still leaving enough of the plate
> intact to support the bow.
> - stop the flashing at the tube and use a second piece between the tube and
> the rear edge of the canopy
> - use a hammer to stretch the flashing around the lip.
>
> I suspect I may have to use a combination of these ideas.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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| Subject: | Re: N5886Q???? Interesting story...... |
Thanks to all. The link was a very nice touch! I'll have to see if I can get
a hold of her for a demo flight possibly!
Do Not Archive
--------
Andrew Lieser
S/N 6-7045
http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181491#181491
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| Subject: | Another XL Down - Brazil |
Hi list,
I=B4m so sorry to tell you that another XL had a fatal accident. This
time it was an XL in Brazil
Alberto Martin
Iberplanes IGL
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Espa=F1a
----- Original Message -----
From: Airfox
To: Grupo Zodiac Brasil ; Grupo Stol Brasil ; Grupo Abraex
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: [ZodiacBrasil] Trag=E9dia com o meu amigo Lopes.
Amogos.
Boa tarde.
Trag=E9dia.
O nosso amigo Lopes, caiu e morreu com o Zodiac XL que n=F3s o
ajudamos a construir. O acidente foi ontem a tarde e somente hoje foi
encontrado. Conversei somente hoje com o Dal Magro que foi o engenheiro
que acompanhou ele na constru=E7=E3o e nos voos de teste e a
informa=E7=E3o que ele me deu =E9 que uma testemunha de uma fazenda viu
que ele estava em voo nivelado a +/- 3500 ft e entrou numa espiral e
caiu a quase 90=BA. Estou arrazado e muito triste por ter perdido um
grande amigo, vamos acompanhar tudo de perto e vamos tentar descobrir o
que aconteceu. Faremos uma investiga=E7=E3o s=E9ria e imparcial, os que
me conhecem sabem da seriedade do nosso trabalho. Meus sentimentos aos
seus familiares, em especial a esposa dele, Rosana, que tanto o ajudou
nesse sonho.
Viajamos juntos para Sun'n Fun e ele estava apaixonado pelo avi=E3o.
AirBeto
Airfox. Que trag=E9dia...
__._,_.___
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
Do you know when the incident occurred? or any other information? I seem to recall
recently that another list member had just made first flights in Brazil I
believe..
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181544#181544
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| Subject: | Another XL Down - Brazil |
Here is a translations from Google:
=93Our friend Lopes, fell and died with the Zodiac XL like us to help
build.
The accident was only yesterday afternoon and was found today. Conversei
only today with the Dal Magro who was the engineer who accompanied him
in
construction and in test flights and the information he gave me is that
a
witness saw a ranch that he was in level flight to + / - 3500 ft and
entered
a spiral and fell to almost 90 =B0. Arrazado and I am very sad to have
lost a
great friend, we will monitor everything closely and we will try to find
out
what happened. We will make a serious and impartial investigation, those
who
know me know the seriousness of our work. My feelings for their
relatives,
particularly his wife, Rosana, who both helped in that dream.
Travel together to Sun'n Fun and he was passionate by plane.=94
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Iberplanes
IGL
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Another XL Down - Brazil
Hi list,
I=B4m so sorry to tell you that another XL had a fatal accident. This
time it
was an XL in Brazil
Alberto Martin
Iberplanes IGL
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Espa=F1a
----- Original Message -----
From: Airfox <mailto:airfox@airfox.com.br>
Grupo
Stol Brasil <mailto:stolbrasil@yahoogrupos.com.br> ; Grupo
<mailto:abraex@googlegroups.com> Abraex
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: [ZodiacBrasil] Trag=E9dia com o meu amigo Lopes.
Amogos.
Boa tarde.
Trag=E9dia.
O nosso amigo Lopes, caiu e morreu com o Zodiac XL que n=F3s o ajudamos
a
construir. O acidente foi ontem a tarde e somente hoje foi encontrado.
Conversei somente hoje com o Dal Magro que foi o engenheiro que
acompanhou
ele na constru=E7=E3o e nos voos de teste e a informa=E7=E3o que ele me
deu =E9 que
uma testemunha de uma fazenda viu que ele estava em voo nivelado a +/-
3500
ft e entrou numa espiral e caiu a quase 90=BA. Estou arrazado e muito
triste
por ter perdido um grande amigo, vamos acompanhar tudo de perto e vamos
tentar descobrir o que aconteceu. Faremos uma investiga=E7=E3o s=E9ria e
imparcial, os que me conhecem sabem da seriedade do nosso trabalho. Meus
sentimentos aos seus familiares, em especial a esposa dele, Rosana, que
tanto o ajudou nesse sonho.
Viajamos juntos para Sun'n Fun e ele estava apaixonado pelo avi=E3o.
AirBeto
Airfox. Que trag=E9dia...
__._,_.___
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
By my bad Portugese, it went into heavy clouds at 3500 ft and spun in.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes@gmail.com>
>Sent: May 6, 2008 1:49 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Another XL Down - Brazil
>
>Hi list,
>
>Im so sorry to tell you that another XL had a fatal accident. This time it was
an XL in Brazil
>
>Alberto Martin
>Iberplanes IGL
>http://www.iberplanes.es
>Igualada - Barcelona - Espaa
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Airfox
> To: Grupo Zodiac Brasil ; Grupo Stol Brasil ; Grupo Abraex
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:26 PM
> Subject: [ZodiacBrasil] Tragdia com o meu amigo Lopes.
>
>
> Amogos.
>
> Boa tarde.
> Tragdia.
> O nosso amigo Lopes, caiu e morreu com o Zodiac XL que ns o ajudamos a construir.
O acidente foi ontem a tarde e somente hoje foi encontrado. Conversei somente
hoje com o Dal Magro que foi o engenheiro que acompanhou ele na construo
e nos voos de teste e a informao que ele me deu que uma testemunha de uma fazenda
viu que ele estava em voo nivelado a +/- 3500 ft e entrou numa espiral e
caiu a quase 90. Estou arrazado e muito triste por ter perdido um grande amigo,
vamos acompanhar tudo de perto e vamos tentar descobrir o que aconteceu. Faremos
uma investigao sria e imparcial, os que me conhecem sabem da seriedade
do nosso trabalho. Meus sentimentos aos seus familiares, em especial a esposa
dele, Rosana, que tanto o ajudou nesse sonho.
> Viajamos juntos para Sun'n Fun e ele estava apaixonado pelo avio.
>
> AirBeto
> Airfox. Que tragdia...
>
> __._,_.___
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>
> .
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
Translated message
Good afternoon. Tragedy. Our Lopes friend, fell and died with Zodiac XL that
we help it to construct. The accident was yesterday the afternoon and today it
was only found. I only talked today with the Lean Dal that was the engineer whom
it in the construction and the voos of test folloied and the information that
it gave to me is that a witness of a farm saw that it was in voo been even
+/- 3500 ft and entered in a spiral and fell 90 almost. I am arrazado and very
sad for having lost a great friend, we go to follow everything of close and
we go to try to discover what it happened. We will make a serious inquiry and
impartial, the ones that know me know of the seriousness of our work. My familiar
feelings to its, in special one the wife of it, Rosana, that as much helped
it in this dream. We travel together for Sun'n Fun and it it was gotten passionate
by the airplane. AirBeto Airfox. That tragedy...
Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes@gmail.com> wrote: Hi list,
Im so sorry to tell you that another XL had a fatal accident. This time it was
an XL in Brazil
Alberto Martin
Iberplanes IGL
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Espaa
----- Original Message -----
From: Airfox
To: Grupo Zodiac Brasil ; Grupo Stol Brasil ; Grupo Abraex
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: [ZodiacBrasil] Tragdia com o meu amigo Lopes.
Amogos.
Boa tarde.
Tragdia.
O nosso amigo Lopes, caiu e morreu com o Zodiac XL que ns o ajudamos a construir.
O acidente foi ontem a tarde e somente hoje foi encontrado. Conversei somente
hoje com o Dal Magro que foi o engenheiro que acompanhou ele na construo
e nos voos de teste e a informao que ele me deu que uma testemunha de uma fazenda
viu que ele estava em voo nivelado a +/- 3500 ft e entrou numa espiral e
caiu a quase 90. Estou arrazado e muito triste por ter perdido um grande amigo,
vamos acompanhar tudo de perto e vamos tentar descobrir o que aconteceu. Faremos
uma investigao sria e imparcial, os que me conhecem sabem da seriedade do
nosso trabalho. Meus sentimentos aos seus familiares, em especial a esposa dele,
Rosana, que tanto o ajudou nesse sonho.
Viajamos juntos para Sun'n Fun e ele estava apaixonado pelo avio.
AirBeto
Airfox. Que tragdia...
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| Subject: | Another XL Down - Brazil |
It may have been this plane and pilot. If so he certainly had lots of flying
experience.
He sent a "first flight" announcement to the list on 4/26.
-- Craig
From: Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito [mailto:lenabeto@uol.com.br]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Fw: Enviando email: p3240001.jpg, p3240005.jpg
Hi guys.
How are you?
This is Ricardo Lopes's Zodiac TD by Airfox. (he's my friend)
For me it's beautifull :) :)
He flown it today afternoon and he said that the plane is great, nice.
He is an Agricultural Pilot and he has 18.500 hours as pilot.
Rgds.
Beto.
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=42720
Sad.. it appears that this is Mr. Lopes that posted last week. Perhaps father
and son both involved if this story is correct. My prayers for them both....
Scott
Below is a Google translation from an article I found on yahoo Brazil.
A single fell in the afternoon of Monday when the council sobrevoava gaucho of
capon of Lions, causing the death of the pilot of the aircraft, Wolkwes Ricardo
Lopes, of 51 years, and mechanical Valdir Silveira Lopes, 25 years.
The Fire Brigade received the information about the accident during the morning
and began the search today morning.
In the early afternoon, firefighters were still at the site of the collapse, kills
closed and inaccessible, and awaiting the end of the work of experts to remove
the bodies of the single. According to a fireman, the unit was completely
destroyed.
--------
601 XL kit N596SW reserved
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181567#181567
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
Some translation:
Original:
.... informao que ele me deu que uma testemunha de uma fazenda viu que
ele estava em voo nivelado a +/- 3500 ft e entrou numa espiral e caiu a
quase 90.
Spanish:
... y la informacin que l me dio un testigo de una hacienda que vio que
l estaba en vuelo nivelado a +/- 3500 ft y entr en una espiral y se cay a
casi 90.
english:
.... and the information given to me by a farmer who saw the plane flying
leveled at +/-3500 Ft and suddenly went on a decent spiral doing a 90 turn
...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another XL Down - Brazil
>
> By my bad Portugese, it went into heavy clouds at 3500 ft and spun in.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes@gmail.com>
>>Sent: May 6, 2008 1:49 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Another XL Down - Brazil
>>
>>Hi list,
>>
>>Im so sorry to tell you that another XL had a fatal accident. This time
>>it was an XL in Brazil
>>
>>Alberto Martin
>>Iberplanes IGL
>>http://www.iberplanes.es
>>Igualada - Barcelona - Espaa
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Airfox
>> To: Grupo Zodiac Brasil ; Grupo Stol Brasil ; Grupo Abraex
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:26 PM
>> Subject: [ZodiacBrasil] Tragdia com o meu amigo Lopes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amogos.
>>
>> Boa tarde.
>> Tragdia.
>> O nosso amigo Lopes, caiu e morreu com o Zodiac XL que ns o ajudamos a
>> construir. O acidente foi ontem a tarde e somente hoje foi encontrado.
>> Conversei somente hoje com o Dal Magro que foi o engenheiro que
>> acompanhou ele na construo e nos voos de teste e a informao que ele
>> me deu que uma testemunha de uma fazenda viu que ele estava em voo
>> nivelado a +/- 3500 ft e entrou numa espiral e caiu a quase 90. Estou
>> arrazado e muito triste por ter perdido um grande amigo, vamos acompanhar
>> tudo de perto e vamos tentar descobrir o que aconteceu. Faremos uma
>> investigao sria e imparcial, os que me conhecem sabem da seriedade do
>> nosso trabalho. Meus sentimentos aos seus familiares, em especial a
>> esposa dele, Rosana, que tanto o ajudou nesse sonho.
>> Viajamos juntos para Sun'n Fun e ele estava apaixonado pelo avio.
>>
>> AirBeto
>> Airfox. Que tragdia...
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Mensagens neste tpico (1) Responder (atravs da web) | Adicionar um
>> novo tpico
>> Mensagens | Arquivos | Fotos | Links | Banco de dados | Enquetes |
>> Associados | Agenda
>>
>> Alterar configuraes via web (Requer Yahoo! ID)
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>> de mensagens | Alterar formato para o tradicional
>> Visite seu Grupo | Termos de uso do Yahoo! Grupos | Sair do grupo
>> Atividade nos ltimos dias
>> a.. 2Novos usurios
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> A melhor forma de comunicao
>>
>> .
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>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
What a tragedy. These guys in Brazil are serious XL builders.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-workshop-brazil.html
I have corresponded with Beto of AirFox for the past couple of years. They do very
high quality work and make beautiful airplanes.
My sympathy to the family.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181578#181578
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/
Take a look at this link, I don't speak spanish/portugese but it appears that the
1 1/2" pieces likely used the (presumably) used for the spar were 6351 T6.
Is this correct? I just kind of stumbled on this when looking at the site.
Take a look at the receipts and let me know what y'all think. I haven't heard
of this alloy but I will look it up for sure. Especially since Chris's latest
letter eludes to the usage of improper materials.
Oh, BTW I googled the alloy and found a bunch of scuba tanks that were made from
the alloy have been exploding. But I'm no metalurgist or accident investigator...
Just a concerned Zodiac builder.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181584#181584
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
http://www.thermaflo.com/engref_mech.shtml
So according to this table of values the 6351 appears to be stronger little stronger
in tensile but has a lower fatigue endurance limit. Does anyone know how
fatigue enurance limit would be measured?
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181585#181585
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
Michael,
The Chris Heintz letter also mentions that the European spar and caps
may be of a smaller section because of the UL mandates. This would
explain the progressive
nature of the cracks and final pop that let the wings go. The 6351-T6
is only 92% the endurance strength of 6061-T6 and if the sections are
thinner or lesser, you
have found the smoking gun that explains "wing failure". Add to this
the quick-time construction of an overseas supplier/manufacturer and
whatever shortcuts they
may have introduced,,,, This may all be understood eventually.
Again, stay with the plans and the original design to be completely safe.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
MHerder wrote:
>
> http://www.thermaflo.com/engref_mech.shtml
>
> So according to this table of values the 6351 appears to be stronger little stronger
in tensile but has a lower fatigue endurance limit. Does anyone know
how fatigue enurance limit would be measured?
>
> --------
> One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181585#181585
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
Also, it seems that this plane had a BRS chute:
http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/images.html
Check the last picture of the first row, the one with the word SIRAC. I think SIRAC
is the initials the use for BRS.
If that is the case, I wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he
could recover the plane on time or got incapacitated.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/
Take a look at this link, I don't speak spanish/portugese but it appears that the
1 1/2" pieces likely used the (presumably) used for the spar were 6351 T6.
Is this correct? I just kind of stumbled on this when looking at the site.
Take a look at the receipts and let me know what y'all think. I haven't heard
of this alloy but I will look it up for sure. Especially since Chris's latest
letter eludes to the usage of improper materials.
Oh, BTW I googled the alloy and found a bunch of scuba tanks that were made from
the alloy have been exploding. But I'm no metalurgist or accident investigator...
Just a concerned Zodiac builder.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181584#181584
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
It was indeed Ricardo's airplane. The site of the accident is a few
kilometres from Pelotas, the city where he lived (and where I lived for
about a year back in the late sixties).
In this satellite image you can identify the hangar and tank that appear in
the pictures that Craig posted.
*http://tinyurl.com/6zl9tt*
Ricardo and I exchanged a few notes over the past several months. He seemed
like a very nice guy, and very passionate about his XL and aviation in
general.
Life sucks.
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans.
2008/5/6 Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>:
> It may have been this plane and pilot. If so he certainly had lots of
> flying experience.
>
>
> He sent a "first flight" announcement to the list on 4/26.
>
>
> -- Craig
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
> I wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he could recover
the plane on time or got incapacitated.
I thought that one report said that the pilot and mechanic died. The
mechanic could have pulled the chute.
Also speaking of modifications, the plane linked to appears to have wet
wing:
http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/Partes%20do%
20Zodiac%20429.jpg
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
This aircraft had many mods that were intended to bring a light aircraft
into much faster operating speeds and weights than
the controls and linkages provided for the standard 601. Nice looking,
but bold mods that could put safety issues up front.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Craig Payne wrote:
>
> *> * I wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he could
> recover the plane on time or got incapacitated.
>
> **
>
> *I thought that one report said that the pilot and mechanic died. The
> mechanic could have pulled the chute.*
>
> * *
>
> *Also speaking of modifications, the plane linked to appears to have
> wet wing:*
>
> * *
>
> *http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/Partes%20do%20Zodiac%20429.jpg*
>
> * *
>
> *-- Craig*
>
> * *
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
If a wing also came off this 601, I for one find this totally unacceptable.
There should be much more tolerance than a few percent of strength
difference built into the design. There has to be many more 601's out
there with similiar mods, changes. This was not an old-stress fatigued
aircraft. A cessna 172 is rated +3.8 -1.52 at gross. They don't have a
history of falling out of the sky.by losing a wing even at 5-10,000 hrs of
air time.If it was a stall-spin, I wonder if the 15 Degree elevator stop was
installed?
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil
>
>
> This aircraft had many mods that were intended to bring a light aircraft
> into much faster operating speeds and weights than
> the controls and linkages provided for the standard 601. Nice looking,
> but bold mods that could put safety issues up front.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Craig Payne wrote:
>>
>> *> * I wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he could
>> recover the plane on time or got incapacitated.
>>
>> **
>>
>> *I thought that one report said that the pilot and mechanic died. The
>> mechanic could have pulled the chute.*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *Also speaking of modifications, the plane linked to appears to have wet
>> wing:*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/Partes%20do%20Zodiac%20429.jpg*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *-- Craig*
>>
>> * *
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
You are right, there was passenger on board. The picture in the link shows the
BRS compartment, maybe it was just the compartment but the BRS might have not
be installed yet. We will eventually know.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote: > I wonder
why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he could recover the plane on time
or got incapacitated.
I thought that one report said that the pilot and mechanic died. The mechanic
could have pulled the chute.
Also speaking of modifications, the plane linked to appears to have wet wing:
http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/Partes%20do%20Zodiac%20429.jpg
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
Doesn't seem they were using avex rivets either. What's up with these?
http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/rebites-nota2.jpg
Kevin Bonds
MHerder wrote:
>
> http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/
>
> Take a look at this link, I don't speak spanish/portugese but it appears that
the 1 1/2" pieces likely used the (presumably) used for the spar were 6351 T6.
Is this correct? I just kind of stumbled on this when looking at the
Message 22
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I took up my 601 hd taildragger for the first time today. Flies really nic
e. A lot faster then the ultralights I'm used to flying. The left wing is
a little heavy but most people report this. It will probably take 2 or 3
days for my adrenalin levels to come back down. I put over 2 hours on the
zodiac today. It also handles excellent for a taildragger. Like it's on r
ails going down the runway. It does have a tendency to float forever when
coming in. I think I will try to lower my idle a bit to help.
Thank's for the help on this list. I was mostly a lurker but I used the se
arch engine a lot to answer any questuions I had. Larry's web site was als
o a great resource.
Frank Probst
_________________________________________________________________
Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the le
tters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207
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| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Congratulations Frank. I know it is a great feeling and the smile will be hard
to wipe away for a few days.
Have fun and be safe,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181642#181642
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| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Congratulations!!!
Jerry
do no archive
---- Frank Probst <fprobst@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> I took up my 601 hd taildragger for the first time today.
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
Just looked on the Emhart website and the rivets they manufacture are POP
brand rivets that according to the website are not specified for aviation,
but instead RV's and boats.....
*Typical Applications*
- Air bags
- Appliances
- Overhead doors
- Truck trailers
- Acoustical ceiling
- Personal watercraft
- Overhead lighting
- RVs
The website is:
http://www.emhart.com/products/pop/rivets.asp
Not sure if they were used in the plane, but they should not have been.
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Kevin Bonds <kevinbonds@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Doesn't seem they were using avex rivets either. What's up with these?
> http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/rebites-nota2.jpg
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> MHerder wrote:
>
> > michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
> >
> > http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/
> >
> > Take a look at this link, I don't speak spanish/portugese but it appears
> > that the 1 1/2" pieces likely used the (presumably) used for the spar were
> > 6351 T6. Is this correct? I just kind of stumbled on this when looking at
> > the
> >
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Congratulations, Frank! Good luck with your flight test program.
Terry
At 02:23 AM 5/7/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>I took up my 601 hd taildragger for the first time today. Flies really
>nice. A lot faster then the ultralights I'm used to flying. The left
>wing is a little heavy but most people report this. It will probably take
>2 or 3 days for my adrenalin levels to come back down. I put over 2 hours
>on the zodiac today. It also handles excellent for a taildragger. Like
>it's on rails going down the runway. It does have a tendency to float
>forever when coming in. I think I will try to lower my idle a bit to help.
>Thank's for the help on this list. I was mostly a lurker but I used the
>search engine a lot to answer any questuions I had. Larry's web site was
>also a great resource.
>
>Frank Probst
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
On 5/6/08, Cndmovn <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just looked on the Emhart website and the rivets they manufacture are POP
> brand rivets that according to the website are not specified for aviation,
> but instead RV's and boats.....
That in and of itself is not an issue -- it may or may not be a problem.
Sonex (and afaik the RV-12, and maybe even also the Rans S-19) use stainless
steel Cherry "N" rivets, which seem like basically the same thing as the POP
rivets.
I tried to look up the part numbers from the pictured receipt on Google, but
found no useful hits. So I can't tell what material the rivets are made
from. If the rivets were aluminum body/aluminum mandrel, for example, *that*
would be a big issue!
Ihab
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
Message 28
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Do not archive
Congratulations Frank! I agree that the search engine is a great tool to
find an answer to a question that you know has been asked before by others.
I'm looking forward to that adrenalin high soon too.
Jeff Davidson
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Probst
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:24 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: First flight
I took up my 601 hd taildragger for the first time today. Flies really
nice. A lot faster then the ultralights I'm used to flying. The left wing
is a little heavy but most people report this. It will probably take 2 or 3
days for my adrenalin levels to come back down. I put over 2 hours on the
zodiac today. It also handles excellent for a taildragger. Like it's on
rails going down the runway. It does have a tendency to float forever when
coming in. I think I will try to lower my idle a bit to help.
Thank's for the help on this list. I was mostly a lurker but I used the
search engine a lot to answer any questuions I had. Larry's web site was
also a great resource.
Frank Probst
_____
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Congrats Frank! That is great!!
Larry Husky
N667H (Reserved)
In a message dated 5/6/2008 7:27:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fprobst@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
I took up my 601 hd taildragger for the first time today. Flies really
nice. A lot faster then the ultralights I'm used to flying. The left wing is
a
little heavy but most people report this. It will probably take 2 or 3 days
for my adrenalin levels to come back down. I put over 2 hours on the zodiac
today. It also handles excellent for a taildragger. Like it's on rails
going down the runway. It does have a tendency to float forever when coming in.
I think I will try to lower my idle a bit to help.
Thank's for the help on this list. I was mostly a lurker but I used the
search engine a lot to answer any questuions I had. Larry's web site was also
a
great resource.
Frank Probst
____________________________________
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
All,
With all the questions regarding the materials used, on top of that, take a look
at the placard that was on the panel:
http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/20-04-2008/p3280012.jpg
It reads; "Permitted aerobatics basic only. Never exceed +4/-4 G"
-4 G with substandard materials pretty much guarantees a structural failure.
Slippery airframe, sexy look, high time ag pilot, aerobatics, possible substandard
materials=2 people dead. Sad day for all.
Best regards,
Craig Moore A&P
Mancelona, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181664#181664
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Another XL Down - Brazil |
Hey Larry M.,
Evidently, Zenith did not consider the modifications inappropriate. Pictures of
the AirFox aircraft are featured in the 601XL photo galleries on the ZAC Web
site .
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo104.html
Sebastien Heintz himself attended their rudder workshop and took the photos posted
on this page:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-workshop-brazil.html
As far as the rivets being suspect...if you read the LARGE print on Aircraft Spruce's
(or any other supplier's) listing for Avex rivets, you'll see they are
considered to be "non-structural".
The first step in solving a problem is to admit that there is a problem. How many
people have to die before we admit there just might be a possibility that
a problem exists. Notice I said possibility!
Dave Clay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181668#181668
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