Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 AM - Re: using 87-0ctane with ethanol (ashontz)
2. 04:37 AM - Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) (ashontz)
3. 04:44 AM - Zenith CH701 Rated CFI (Ken Arnold)
4. 05:11 AM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (ALAN BEYER)
5. 05:24 AM - Re: Zenith601-List: Engine mount bolts (P.H. Raker)
6. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List: Engine mount bolts (Juan Vega)
7. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: using 87-0ctane with ethanol (Juan Vega)
8. 05:45 AM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (Juan Vega)
9. 06:14 AM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (Jim Weston)
10. 06:48 AM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (Jaybannist@cs.com)
11. 07:22 AM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (LarryMcFarland)
12. 08:59 AM - Re: using 87-0ctane with ethanol (Gig Giacona)
13. 09:09 AM - Re: Zenith CH701 Rated CFI (Gig Giacona)
14. 10:04 AM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (Jeff Davidson)
15. 10:24 AM - Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) (MaxNr@aol.com)
16. 11:19 AM - abandon project (michael lord)
17. 01:04 PM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (Jaybannist@cs.com)
18. 01:49 PM - Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) (Andrewlieser)
19. 02:11 PM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead (Gig Giacona)
20. 02:12 PM - Re: abandon project (haven)
21. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
22. 03:05 PM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (Jeff Davidson)
23. 03:41 PM - Re: Meeting LSA Criteria (Jaybannist@cs.com)
24. 05:08 PM - Re: Meeting LSA Criteria (Jeff)
25. 05:42 PM - Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? (Timothy Croy)
26. 06:08 PM - Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) (ashontz)
27. 06:14 PM - Re: O-290 install (Ron Lendon)
28. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: O-290 install (LHusky@aol.com)
29. 06:28 PM - Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) (Ron Lendon)
30. 07:04 PM - Re: Meeting LSA Criteria (Jaybannist@cs.com)
31. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) (Bryan Martin)
32. 10:35 PM - Re: Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) (Aerolitellc@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: using 87-0ctane with ethanol |
25% power when it's acting up, then back to 100%, then 25% power intermittantly,
It's only done it once or twice last summer for about 5 minutes of a trip out,
then ran fine the rest of the time. But I wouldn't want to have that 5 minute
experince in the air.
Actually the tanks are aluminum. I think I even have new hoses too.
Hadn't thought of the compression. Now that I think about it, the 140 Evinrude
I have is kind of a notorious engine in that it's the same block as the 115hp,
it just uses higher compression to make power. The next step up is a 150hp and
that's 6 cylinders. The 140s should probably have been designed as 6 cylinder
engines, not 4. It's just asking too much of an engine. And my little truck
has compression something like 10.5 or 11:1, which is also pretty high. A normal
compression check on my Nissan pickup is something like 140psi. It's 23 years
old with close to 300,000 miles, and yet I still have that 140psi compression
on all the cylinders believe it or not.
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> Andy,
> the reason your boat may have issues on ethanol is your tanks may be glass or
plastic, and your hoses may not be ethanol tolerant. Many boats are having to
have their tanks replaced due to this. Dude, your boat sounds like it needs
some major ayuda! 25% power, ouch!
>
> Your plane (depending on engine compession) can take ethanol depending on hoses
and plastics in carburator. Set up the plane to burn ethanol correctly and
you should not have issues. On the 3300 Jabiru, I have NASCAR race lines that
can take ethanol, and the carbi is set for some ethonal tollerance. depends
on the compression of the engine as well. The EGTs may burn hotter so you may
need to burn the engine at cruise richer.
>
> Juan
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182879#182879
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
Interesting, I was wondering about using the hinged aileron with a .016 skin sandwiched
in there to act as some stiffness, but thought maybe that might pull
on the rivets too much. You figure with a gap seal on top, when you deflect the
aileron downwards the gap seal skin has to travel around a larger radius (ever
so slightly anyway) to make the bend. Would that be enough to elongate the
rivet holes or weaken the rivet heads over time?
Ron Lendon wrote:
> I have flown Piper Cherokees that have optional gap seals installed over the
hinges to reduce drag or air flow through the wing. With the hingeless design
the gap seals are already there. I think the hingeless aileron is a very elegant
design.
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182882#182882
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| Subject: | Zenith CH701 Rated CFI |
Hi,
Looking for 701 rated CFI to provide check ride near Goldsboro, NC.
Many thanks,
Ken Arnold
919 734-8573
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? |
Juan,=0AMy HDS with 350 Hrs. also meets the LSA specs.=0AAL from Oshkosh=0A
=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.
com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, May 12, 2008 10:56:54
PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with
a HD instead?=0A=0AJuan:=0A=0AYou are wrong. -My HDS easily met the Light
Sport criteria.=0A=0AStan Challgren=0A=0A=0A=0AOn May 12, 2008, at 8:03 PM
ga2005@earthlink.net>=0A=0ANot true. please refer to the Zenith specs. HD i
s the original Light sprt, originally an upgraded 600. -HDS is not LSA.
=0A=0AJuan=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A=0AFrom: Jeyoung65@aol.com=0A
=0ASent: May 12, 2008 9:48 PM=0A=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A=0ASubje
ct: Re: Zenith-List: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD inste
ad?=0A=0A=0AYES, to all. Jerry of GA=0A=0A=0A=0AIn a message dated 5/12/200
8 9:20:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, -=0A=0Adforney@bctonline.com writes
:=0A=0A=0A=0ADoes the HD or HDS meet the =93light -sport=94 requirements
for stall speeds, =0A=0Aand other specification -requirements? -=0A=0A
=========
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Engine mount bolts |
"Ianrat" <ianrat@powerup.com.au> wrote:
>
> Just about to fit the engine mount to the fire wall. What
> type of bolts are being used (AN or Grade 8 ).
> And are they using Castle nuts or Nylon lock nuts.
Hello, Ianrat, and other listers,
I must agree in part with what Mac already wrote you. Use the AN
bolts. Grade 8 are slightly stronger/harder, but are also a bit more
brittle. You don't want brittle on something that's potentially so
safety critical as engine mounts.
I must disagree with something else Mac wrote. Castle nuts are
good. Self locking nuts are not necessarily bad. Nylock type nuts
SHOULD NOT BE USED on an engine mount. Here's the reasoning: Under
normal operating conditions, some engines don't produce sufficient heat
to present a problem. However, forward of the firewall is the most
likely place on an aircraft to have a fire. If you ever have an
in-flight fire (God forbid), you don't want your engine to fall off the
plane because you used Nylock nuts on the mounts and the nylon melted.
If you choose to use self-locking nuts on your engine mounts, please
USE ALL-METAL ones.
Assuming that heat isn't an issue under normal operating
conditions, Nylock nuts are great in almost all other applications.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
(using all-metal self-locking nuts on my engine mounts)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List: Engine mount bolts |
do not use Nylock, it will melt. never use Nylock in the engine compartment. use
either castle nuts, or steel Lock nuts.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com>
>Sent: May 13, 2008 8:20 AM
>To: Zenith601-List@matronics.com, Zenith-List <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith601-List: Engine mount bolts
>
>
>
> "Ianrat" <ianrat@powerup.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Just about to fit the engine mount to the fire wall. What
>> type of bolts are being used (AN or Grade 8 ).
>> And are they using Castle nuts or Nylon lock nuts.
>
>Hello, Ianrat, and other listers,
> I must agree in part with what Mac already wrote you. Use the AN
>bolts. Grade 8 are slightly stronger/harder, but are also a bit more
>brittle. You don't want brittle on something that's potentially so
>safety critical as engine mounts.
> I must disagree with something else Mac wrote. Castle nuts are
>good. Self locking nuts are not necessarily bad. Nylock type nuts
>SHOULD NOT BE USED on an engine mount. Here's the reasoning: Under
>normal operating conditions, some engines don't produce sufficient heat
>to present a problem. However, forward of the firewall is the most
>likely place on an aircraft to have a fire. If you ever have an
>in-flight fire (God forbid), you don't want your engine to fall off the
>plane because you used Nylock nuts on the mounts and the nylon melted.
>If you choose to use self-locking nuts on your engine mounts, please
>USE ALL-METAL ones.
> Assuming that heat isn't an issue under normal operating
>conditions, Nylock nuts are great in almost all other applications.
>
>Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
> (using all-metal self-locking nuts on my engine mounts)
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: using 87-0ctane with ethanol |
nice. my volvo has 300,000 miles and still kickin.
JUan
-----Original Message-----
>From: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>
>Sent: May 13, 2008 7:27 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: using 87-0ctane with ethanol
>
>
>25% power when it's acting up, then back to 100%, then 25% power intermittantly,
It's only done it once or twice last summer for about 5 minutes of a trip out,
then ran fine the rest of the time. But I wouldn't want to have that 5 minute
experince in the air.
>
>Actually the tanks are aluminum. I think I even have new hoses too.
>
>Hadn't thought of the compression. Now that I think about it, the 140 Evinrude
I have is kind of a notorious engine in that it's the same block as the 115hp,
it just uses higher compression to make power. The next step up is a 150hp and
that's 6 cylinders. The 140s should probably have been designed as 6 cylinder
engines, not 4. It's just asking too much of an engine. And my little truck
has compression something like 10.5 or 11:1, which is also pretty high. A normal
compression check on my Nissan pickup is something like 140psi. It's 23 years
old with close to 300,000 miles, and yet I still have that 140psi compression
on all the cylinders believe it or not.
>
>
>amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
>> Andy,
>> the reason your boat may have issues on ethanol is your tanks may be glass or
plastic, and your hoses may not be ethanol tolerant. Many boats are having
to have their tanks replaced due to this. Dude, your boat sounds like it needs
some major ayuda! 25% power, ouch!
>>
>> Your plane (depending on engine compession) can take ethanol depending on hoses
and plastics in carburator. Set up the plane to burn ethanol correctly and
you should not have issues. On the 3300 Jabiru, I have NASCAR race lines that
can take ethanol, and the carbi is set for some ethonal tollerance. depends
on the compression of the engine as well. The EGTs may burn hotter so you may
need to burn the engine at cruise richer.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> --
>
>
>--------
>Andy Shontz
>
>do not archive
>
>CH601XL - Corvair
>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182879#182879
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? |
sounds like I owe a bunch o beers!
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com>
>Sent: May 12, 2008 11:26 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead?
>
>
>My HDS meets LSA. FAA says each experimental aircraft is unique.
>
>--
>Leo Gates
>N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
>Rotax 912UL
>
>
>Juan Vega wrote:
>>
>> Not true. please refer to the Zenith specs. HD is the original Light sprt, originally
an upgraded 600. HDS is not LSA.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: Jeyoung65@aol.com
>>> Sent: May 12, 2008 9:48 PM
>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD
instead?
>>>
>>> YES, to all. Jerry of GA
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 5/12/2008 9:20:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> dforney@bctonline.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the HD or HDS meet the light sport requirements for stall speeds,
>>> and other specification requirements?
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? |
Hi folks. I haven't been on here in a while. I completed my HDS in 1998,
and I've also been checking about the LSA category. If you check the EAA
website, they have a list of aircraft kits that meet the LSA requirements.
Under the Zenair/Zenith brand they list the STOL CH 701, Zodiac CH 601,
Super Zodiac, and CH 601XL. The CH601HDS is the only model that is called
the Super Zodiac, so the HDS is on the list. Here's the EAA webpage:
http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/lsa/likely_lsa.html
Bottom line, since there is a difference in final completion weights and
overall performance, as Leo mentioned, it is a unique situation for each
aircraft. Mine makes it within parameters.
Jim Weston
N601JW CH601HDS w/Stratus
Concord, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD
instead?
sounds like I owe a bunch o beers!
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com>
>Sent: May 12, 2008 11:26 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD
instead?
>
>
>My HDS meets LSA. FAA says each experimental aircraft is unique.
>
>--
>Leo Gates
>N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
>Rotax 912UL
>
>
>Juan Vega wrote:
>>
>> Not true. please refer to the Zenith specs. HD is the original Light
sprt, originally an upgraded 600. HDS is not LSA.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: Jeyoung65@aol.com
>>> Sent: May 12, 2008 9:48 PM
>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a
HD instead?
>>>
>>> YES, to all. Jerry of GA
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 5/12/2008 9:20:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> dforney@bctonline.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the HD or HDS meet the light sport requirements for stall
speeds,
>>> and other specification requirements?
>>>
>>>
>
>
Checked by AVG.
7:31 AM
Checked by AVG.
7:31 AM
Message 10
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| Subject: | Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? |
Several years ago, there was an extremely active poster named Frank Hinde who
completed an HDS. When he went to sell it, he found that it wouldn't meet the
stall speed requirement for LSA. As I recall, he did some "tweaking" and got
the stall speed within requirements. What I don't remember is what he did to
reduce it. That might still be in the archives. So, it seems that the HDS is
right on the cusp and individual examples may or may not qualify as LSA.
Jay in Dallas
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? |
Hi Dan,
You'll read both sides of the matter here, but the HD certainly does and
the HDS can meet those standards depending on
if it was made to qualify within the stall speeds. Some HDSs won't, but
some will. I have had no problem meeting
that LSA stall speed and it's documented in my operations manual.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Dan Forney wrote:
>
> Does the HD or HDS meet the light sport requirements for stall
> speeds, and other specification requirements?
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: using 87-0ctane with ethanol |
Just Google Ethanol. Most of the results will be either how it will save the world
or starve it but hidden in there is some good information. Then search around
the AOPA and EAA sites there is some very good info there.
As far as your buddy's Beech goes if his STC calls for 93 Octane that isn't what
he is running if he takes out the Ethanol. I don't know how much the Ethanol
boosts the octane so he might not even be running 87.
As for your boat. Sounds like big slugs of water laced Ethanol or hose goo to me.
I had always intended to run 93 octane MoGas in my Corvair powered 601XL. I can
still get it and since I know some guys at the refinery I may even be able to
contintue to get it for a while at least. But if the time comes that I can't
I will be running 100LL. It will be tested with both during the 40 hour fly off.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182937#182937
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith CH701 Rated CFI |
There is no such thing as a 701 rated CFI. What you want is a CFI with experience
in a 701. The only problem you might find is that CFIs who don't want to instruct
in a EXP-HB.
The exception to this would be some of the LSA instructors that can only instruct
in certain aircraft but they are few and far between.
You don't mention if this is your plane and you are buying from a builder or just
want to fly in a 701. It might help to come up with some possible solutions
if we know your situation.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182940#182940
Message 14
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| Subject: | Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD |
instead?
Jay,
I'm hoping that you are inaccurate on this. Tweaking the stall speed to meet
the LSA stall speeds after the plane is flying may in itself violate the LSA
criteria.
Jeff D
>
>Several years ago, there was an extremely active poster named Frank Hinde who
completed an HDS. When he went to sell it, he found that it wouldn't meet the
stall speed requirement for LSA. As I recall, he did some "tweaking" and got
the stall speed within requirements. What I don't remember is what he did to
reduce it. That might still be in the archives. So, it seems that the HDS is
right on the cusp and individual examples may or may not qualify as LSA.
>
>Jay in Dallas
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
Dave Nixon, you went with push rods. That is so neat! Couple of days ago, I
was rooting through some old drawings to send some info to Andy. That old
design had push rods and they seemed to jump out to me. I could see how a single
rod would fit in either the last or next to last lightening holes. They are not
temp sensitive or lose tension.
Bob Dingley
Do not archive
**************
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new
twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 16
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Hi Folks,
Just joined list. I have Been building factory 601 XL kit
for the past 21/2 years (90 % complete.) Engine is hung,
wireing to be completed. I have for sale the 90% complete
factory kit with firewall forward kit. 50% discount.
New Jabiru 3300 engine, Dynon 180 ,TruTrak ADI 11 autopilot,
Garmin 396 GPS, Custom leather seats, PM 3000 intercom,
etc, etc, etc, etc, everything needed for a first class project.
every thing is new 15% discount
Located in suburb of Green Bay Wi
If interested contact Mike Lord off list for complete info and pictures
mlord001@new.rr.com
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD |
instead?
Jeff,
How would you know what your airplane's stalling speed is without flying it? And
if it is too high, are you just stuck with it? I think not. That is some
of what the 40 hour testing period is about.
I think what you are referring to is (usually older) airplanes that originally
met the LSA criteria (like a lot of Aircoupes), but some time in their life, they
were modified to be faster, or heavier, or whatever that put them out of the
LSA category. They can't be returned to the original configuration to qualify
as LSA.
Jay in Dallas
Jeff Davidson <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>Jay,
> I'm hoping that you are inaccurate on this. Tweaking the stall speed to meet
the LSA stall speeds after the plane is flying may in itself violate the LSA
criteria.
> Jeff D
>>
>>Several years ago, there was an extremely active poster named Frank Hinde who
completed an HDS. When he went to sell it, he found that it wouldn't meet the
stall speed requirement for LSA. As I recall, he did some "tweaking" and got
the stall speed within requirements. What I don't remember is what he did
to reduce it. That might still be in the archives. So, it seems that the HDS
is right on the cusp and individual examples may or may not qualify as LSA.
>>
>>Jay in Dallas
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
Dave, do you have any pictures of the push rod design? That sounds very intriguing!
--------
Andrew Lieser
S/N 6-7045
http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183005#183005
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead |
While I agree with that logic Jay, there have been some DAR and or FSDO that have
taken the other view in some cases. I remember reading about them back when
the LSA rules were first put in place. Probably on R.A.H.
The thinking was as you said based on the Ercoupe C modifications that made it
a D. (I think those were the model numbers it may have been B to C.) If the builder
had finished the phase I testing and documented numbers that didn't make
LSA rules the plane was forever NOT LSA.
If memory serves it was cases where the plane was built and flew off the hours
before the LSA numbers were known or in some cases even considered. They might
have a fast stall speed or been granted AW certs with 1400 lbs MGW. The builder
couldn't go back and change those numbers to make LSA. Yet he could build a
plane that was identical and report the correct numbers and it was an LSA.
Remember we are talking about a government agency here. Logic isn't required.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: abandon project |
whats the price?
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| Subject: | Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
If you had a piece of aluminum riveted over the hinge, you would probably find
it difficult to move the ailerons at all. You would definitely put a permanent
crease in the metal and stretch it or shear the rivets if you did manage to get
it to move.
When the standard hingeless ailerons are deflected, the skin acting as the hinge
takes on a fairly large (on the order of a few inches) radius of curvature.
Bending a piece of metal over a piano hinge will put a very small (>1/4") radius
in the metal and result in a significant elongation.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
>
> Interesting, I was wondering about using the hinged aileron with a .016 skin
> sandwiched in there to act as some stiffness, but thought maybe that might pull
> on the rivets too much. You figure with a gap seal on top, when you deflect the
> aileron downwards the gap seal skin has to travel around a larger radius (ever
> so slightly anyway) to make the bend. Would that be enough to elongate the rivet
> holes or weaken the rivet heads over time?
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD |
instead?
Jay wrote:How would you know what your airplane's stalling speed is without flying
it?
This is how National EAA explains it:
Question :
I have a homebuilt airplane that meets all of the criteria for Sport Pilot except
that it is a few miles an hour too fast. I would like to change the prop to
a slower speed that does match Light Sport so that I can then someday fly it
as a Sport Pilot. Is this possible?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer :
No, you cannot make an existing aircraft that does not meet the definition of a
light-sport aircraft (ref. 14 CFR 1.1) eligibile for operation by sport pilots
regardless of how you modify the aircraft. The LSA definition requires that
the aircraft be both initially certificated AND continuously operated within the
definition in order to be eligible for operation by sport pilots. The aircraft
you describe was neither initially certificated nor continuously operated
within the LSA definition, so it cannot be made eligible for operation by sport
pilots.
Jeff
Message 23
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| Subject: | Meeting LSA Criteria |
What is missing in the question is whether the airplane was past the 40-hour test
period or not. If it is past the test period, then I agree: It can't then
be changed to meet the criteria. However, it is totally unreasonable to expect
an amateur builder to be able to set a ground-adjustable prop (or choose a fixed
pitch prop) that will, without a doubt, make the airplane fly below 138mph.
As Gig has pointed out, reasonableness is not a characteristic of the Feds;
but I really don't believe they intended to create a Catch 22. Then again, how
are they going to know (or even care) what you have adjusted during the testing
period? You might adjust the carb, the stabilizer attitude, tire pressure,
or the prop pitch to get them right. What's the difference?
Jay in Dallas
Jeff Davidson <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Jay wrote:How would you know what your airplane's stalling speed is without flying
it?
>
>This is how National EAA explains it:
>
>Question :
>I have a homebuilt airplane that meets all of the criteria for Sport Pilot except
that it is a few miles an hour too fast. I would like to change the prop to
a slower speed that does match Light Sport so that I can then someday fly it
as a Sport Pilot. Is this possible?
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Answer :
>No, you cannot make an existing aircraft that does not meet the definition of
a light-sport aircraft (ref. 14 CFR 1.1) eligibile for operation by sport pilots
regardless of how you modify the aircraft. The LSA definition requires that
the aircraft be both initially certificated AND continuously operated within
the definition in order to be eligible for operation by sport pilots. The aircraft
you describe was neither initially certificated nor continuously operated
within the LSA definition, so it cannot be made eligible for operation by sport
pilots.
>
>Jeff
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Meeting LSA Criteria |
Jay wrote:
What is missing in the question is whether the airplane was past the 40-hour
test period or not?
Jay,
You are right that it may be unclear in the EAA example, but in
Frank's case I don't think there is any question that the plane had been
flown past Phase I. At the end of Phase I the FAA requires:
"All test flights, at a minimum, must be conducted under VFR, day only.
Guidance concerning the scope and detail of test flights can be found in AC
90-89. Following satisfactory completion of the required number of flight
hours in the flight test area, the pilot must certify in the records that
the aircraft has been shown to comply with 91.319(b). Compliance with
91.319(b) must be recorded in the aircraft records with the following, or a
similarly worded, statement: I certify that the prescribed flight test
hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its
normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no
hazardous operating characteristics or design features, and is safe for
operation. The following aircraft operating data has been demonstrated
during the flight testing: speeds Vso ______, Vx ______, and Vy ______, and
the weight ______ and CG location ______ at which they were obtained."
These numbers should meet the LSA criteria at all times if you want a Sport
Pilot to be able to fly it.
There are further considerations for instrument markings, etc., but here is
a question for you: May a Sport Pilot fly off Phase I of an AB Experimental
?
Jeff D.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Starting a zodiac - Downsides of going with a HD instead? |
mine meets LSA specs
On 5/13/08, Jeff Davidson <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
>
> Jay wrote:How would you know what your airplane's stalling speed is
> without flying it?
>
> This is how National EAA explains it:
>
> Question :
> I have a homebuilt airplane that meets all of the criteria for Sport Pilot
> except that it is a few miles an hour too fast. I would like to change the
> prop to a slower speed that does match Light Sport so that I can then
> someday fly it as a Sport Pilot. Is this possible?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Answer :
> No, you cannot make an existing aircraft that does not meet the definition
> of a light-sport aircraft (ref. 14 CFR 1.1) eligibile for operation by sport
> pilots regardless of how you modify the aircraft. The LSA definition
> requires that the aircraft be both initially certificated AND continuously
> operated within the definition in order to be eligible for operation by
> sport pilots. The aircraft you describe was neither initially certificated
> nor continuously operated within the LSA definition, so it cannot be made
> eligible for operation by sport pilots.
>
> Jeff
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
I understand that, so how do these gap seals work?
bryanmmartin wrote:
> If you had a piece of aluminum riveted over the hinge, you would probably find
it difficult to move the ailerons at all. You would definitely put a permanent
crease in the metal and stretch it or shear the rivets if you did manage to
get it to move.
>
> When the standard hingeless ailerons are deflected, the skin acting as the hinge
takes on a fairly large (on the order of a few inches) radius of curvature.
Bending a piece of metal over a piano hinge will put a very small (>1/4") radius
in the metal and result in a significant elongation.
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "ashontz"
>
> >
> >
> > Interesting, I was wondering about using the hinged aileron with a .016 skin
> > sandwiched in there to act as some stiffness, but thought maybe that might
pull
> > on the rivets too much. You figure with a gap seal on top, when you deflect
the
> > aileron downwards the gap seal skin has to travel around a larger radius (ever
> > so slightly anyway) to make the bend. Would that be enough to elongate the
rivet
> > holes or weaken the rivet heads over time?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183028#183028
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| Subject: | Re: O-290 install |
Larry,
A quick search of the archives turned up that it might be a little to heavy and
a little to powerful.
Check with Zenith.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183029#183029
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| Subject: | Re: O-290 install |
Thanks Ron. I wanted to originally go with the Corvair engine, but the long
wait for parts and no reply to emails, has me looking for other options. I
did not want to build an engine and have it sit for a couple of years. Now
that I am ready to build the engine, I still get no replies to emails. Guess
it is going to be an O-200 or O-235 for sure. Thanks for the reply
In a message dated 5/13/2008 6:15:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rlendon@comcast.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Larry,
A quick search of the archives turned up that it might be a little to heavy
and a little to powerful.
Check with Zenith.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183029#183029
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
Andy,
The gaps seals on the Cherokee are some type of plastic. I don't know how they
are attached.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183032#183032
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| Subject: | Meeting LSA Criteria |
Jeff,
A Sport Pilot can only fly an LSA, but the 601XL, registered E-AB, also qualifies
as an LSA. Therefore, a Sport Pilot can fly Phase I in an XL.
Jay in Dallas
"Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>There are further considerations for instrument markings, etc., but here is
>a question for you: May a Sport Pilot fly off Phase I of an AB Experimental
>?
>
>Jeff D.
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
The gap seals are strips of plastic attached to the wing ahead of the
hinge on the bottom of the wing. They span the gap formed by the hinge
line. The higher pressure on the bottom of the wing holds the strip
against the surface to smooth the airflow and prevent leakage through
the gap. The trailing edge of the strip is free to slide over the
aileron as it moves.
See: http://www.knots2u.com/cessna-gs.htm for example.
On May 13, 2008, at 9:05 PM, ashontz wrote:
>
> I understand that, so how do these gap seals work?
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Hinged VS Hingless ailerons (flutter & accidents) |
A wing should be a smooth lifting surface, with no leakage between the
high-pressure bottom side and the low pressure upper side.
A Piper's wing is neither smooth nor free from leaks. Stopping the leakage
of air across the wing is easy. All you have to do is put gap seals between
the wing and the flaps and between the wing and the ailerons. This is simpl
e
and highly cost effective. Sealing these gaps will gain you approximately f
ive
to six M.P.H. in cruise speed and fifty feet per minute in rate of climb.
You get an added bonus of lower stall speed and much greater aileron
effectiveness.
Tests show they deliver several miles per hour more performance than the
AMR&D ones.
The Laminar Flow Systems aileron gap seals performance is the same as the
LoPresti and K2U ones but the price is lower and they have less te
ndency to
ice up!
(http://www.laminarflowsystems.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Stor
e_Code=LFSI&Category_Code=AGS)
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