Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:08 AM - now back to XL building (chris Sinfield)
2. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: Aileron balance (ernie)
3. 06:05 AM - Re: now back to XL building (Jaybannist@cs.com)
4. 08:05 AM - Re: First Flight (Sort Of) (Gig Giacona)
5. 08:11 AM - E-LSA Limitation Date. (Gig Giacona)
6. 08:16 AM - Re: Insurance coverage? (Gig Giacona)
7. 08:52 AM - Re: newsletter (Juan Vega)
8. 09:35 AM - Preliminar Relatory about Lopes Tragedy (Roberto Brito)
9. 10:03 AM - Re: newsletter plans for Balancer (Juan Vega)
10. 01:46 PM - It's Alive!! (Richard Vetterli)
11. 01:46 PM - Re: now back to XL building (Malcolm Hunt)
12. 02:13 PM - Re: It's Alive!! (Cory Emberson)
13. 03:20 PM - Re: It's Alive!! (LarryMcFarland)
14. 03:40 PM - Re: It's Alive!! (kmccune)
15. 06:15 PM - Re: now back to XL building (Juan Vega)
16. 07:24 PM - Re: now back to XL building (chris Sinfield)
17. 08:59 PM - Re: Preliminar Relatory about Lopes Tragedy (chris Sinfield)
Message 1
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| Subject: | now back to XL building |
OK
I thought I would ask an XL building Question just to be different.
I have just noticed a difference in the plans and the parts list
I am building the Center Console and side fairings 6-K-2 no 3 is the side fairing
at 200 wide and 480 high. In the new Illustrated parts guide page 6-XN-24
Duel stick option it shows a new longer side fairing going up and over the foot
channel as well as new parts 6K2-4.
Has there been a change I missed, or is this longer side fairing part of the duel
stick plans?? I was going to build a longer side fairing anyway to cover the
rudder cables.
So has anyone got a copy of the extended side fairings? what are the extra dimensions
length and hight ect??
back into building.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183404#183404
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron balance |
Not sure which accidents you are talking about.
I think one, a bolt was left out of the rear mount point or fell out.
One the UK sited the pilot for pulling up so hard as to removing the wing
with excessive G forces.
and could not determine if it was not related to other times in which he
was sited for buzzing people.
One Flew into thunder storms.... Says it all, ok we will never really know.
Enjoy the build, make your changes, I hope it works out for you.
I will be using no hinges on the aileron, no extra weight at the wing tip.
E.
Do not archive.
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 6:25 PM, William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> >
>
> I goes both ways, just because some of you say there's nothing wrong
> doesn't make it so. The thing is, nobody know what caused 5 XLs to fold or
> break a wing in mid flight. Some people suspect the design, others are
> convinced of pilot error or something unrelated to the design. But the
> problem we are having here is, those who are convinced in nothing wrong with
> the design are getting frustrated and angry because they cannot impose their
> position to those who disagree.
>
> I believe in the possibility that there's nothing wrong, but so far, I'm
> not convinced. Before you ask me why I'm still building an airplane that
> might have a design issue I'll give you my answer, I'm confident that this
> issue, whatever it is, will eventually be resolved.
>
> If as you say you are getting tired of this posts, you have 2 options;
> ignore the posts or suggest the poster to go the ZBAG yahoo group and
> continue there. I wont recommend to leave this list since there still lots
> of good information here in other threads.
>
> I'm William and I approve this message.
>
> William Dominguez
> yada yada 601XL... plans..
> you know the rest
>
>
> Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > Just because it is mentioned on this forum doesn't give it any more
> validity than "as seen on TV." Exactly what are "the indications that
> suggest that there might be a flutter problem with the XL"? Is it because
> someone on the forum said so? Is it because Brito's airplane (NOT an XL)
> had a flutter problem?
> >
> > I'm afraid that too many are giving credence to, supporting and taking
> for granted some of the things said on the forum that have absolutely no
> basis in fact: speculation, guess, extrapolation, armchair engineering and
> outright scare mongering.
> >
> > I'm certainly not opposed to the sharing of ideas and real knowledge, but
> I'm really getting tired of the spurious scuttlebutt that is being passed
> off as valid information.
> >
> > Jay in Dallas
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> > "William Dominguez" wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I know you are asking Andy but I'll try for a second time to answer
> your question since I didn't do a very good job the first time.
> > >
> > > There isn't a hard, smoking gun type of evidence of flutter. But there
> are indications that suggest there might be a flutter problem with the XL. I
> won't get at what those indications are, they have been mentioned in many
> posts in this list. Should there be a hard evidence of flutter before we
> implement any change to our wings? absolutely. But in the meanwhile some of
> us would like to see how the ailerons are balanced, just in case the
> evidence come and we need to do that in the future. After all, is good
> learning. If you are the type of person who don't like to talk about thing
> that might or might not be needed in the future, that is fine. But not
> everyone is the same.
> > >
> > > William Dominguez
> > > Zodiac 601XL Plans
> > > Miami Florida
> > > http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> > > > Andy,
> > > >
> > > > Where is the evidence that ANY of this is needed?
> > > >
> > > > Jay in Dallas
> > > > Do not archive
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "ashontz" wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) to apparently tune out an resonant frequencies that could allow
> for flutter.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) when the plane bounces due to turbulence, the non-balanced
> weight aft of the hinge will flop up and down, possibily inducing flutter.
> If it's balanced, the entire aileron including the balance, moves up or down
> in unison, not around the pivot.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> > > > > > OK, I guess I missed something. With all this e-talk about how
> to balance the ailerons, there has got to be a good reason one would want to
> balance the ailerons. Just what is that reason? Not speculation, not a
> guess, not conjecture; a REASON. PLEASE!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jay in Dallas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --------
> > > > > Andy Shontz
> > > > >
> > > > > do not archive
> > > > >
> > > > > CH601XL - Corvair
> > > > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Read this topic online here:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183162#183162
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------
> > > William Dominguez
> > > Zodiac 601XL Plans
> > > Miami Florida
> > > http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183178#183178
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183220#183220
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | now back to XL building |
Chris,
I chose the dual sticks option for my XL. During a lull in building, I constructed
the center console as shown on the original drawings. It has the full side
panels that fasten to the floor. When I got my dual sticks kit, I discovered
that the side panels would interfere with the rods that go from the sticks
to the horn on the torque tube; plus it would make installation of the fuel selector
valve and hoses very difficult. I designed and fabbed an new one from
.032 6061-T6 (see photo). It has the sides turned down about 2". I may install
larger side panels to hide some of the "stuff" underneath; but that is a project
for much later. If you need dimensions, let me know.
Jay in Dallas CH 601XL N2630J "lil Bruiser"
"chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>OK
>I thought I would ask an XL building Question just to be different.
>
>I have just noticed a difference in the plans and the parts list
>
>I am building the Center Console and side fairings 6-K-2 no 3 is the side fairing
at 200 wide and 480 high. In the new Illustrated parts guide page 6-XN-24
Duel stick option it shows a new longer side fairing going up and over the foot
channel as well as new parts 6K2-4.
>
>Has there been a change I missed, or is this longer side fairing part of the duel
stick plans?? I was going to build a longer side fairing anyway to cover the
rudder cables.
>
>So has anyone got a copy of the extended side fairings? what are the extra dimensions
length and hight ect??
>
>back into building.
>Chris
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight (Sort Of) |
Office Depot seat? I gotta see that. Photos please.
sdthatcher wrote:
> William,
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183441#183441
Message 5
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| Subject: | E-LSA Limitation Date. |
I was reading the EAA e-mail today and noticed the following Q&A...
>
> Question of the Week
> EAA Aviation Services:
> If my Operating Limitations has a date of 2010 on my experimental light-sport
aircraft (E-LSA), must I get a new inspection prior to that date? Or is that
date just to allow training until then and the training part will expire?
> Answer:
> If you were granted the operating limitation that allows for-hire flight training
in your E-LSA your airworthiness certificate expires on January 31, 2010.
You will need to have your airworthiness certificate and operating limitations
amended prior to that date in order to continue to fly your E-LSA after January
31, 2010. Make sure you do not allow the certificate to expire, as you will
not be able to get a new E-LSA airworthiness certificate for your aircraft under
any circumstance beyond that date.
My question is, did any of you guys (or girls, Sabrina) that registered under the
E-LSA rules get this 1/31/2010 limitation? I'd not heard about it.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183444#183444
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance coverage? |
Gary, I couldn't agree more. Hence the comment that having the hull insurance makes
you safer because you can put into your head that, "well the air frame belongs
to the insurance company now."
Without such coverage there would be, right or wrong, to try to save the aircraft
and that can get you killed. That was pretty much the point of my post.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183447#183447
Message 7
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Randy:
for a Zenair designed Aleron balance check May/June 1987 #40. Article. It is
an aleron Balancer designed for the CH 300. Same would apply to the 601.
Good luck and have building it. SHoot Pics when done.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Randy <rpf@wi.rr.com>
>Sent: May 14, 2008 9:30 PM
>To: amyvega2005@earthlink.net
>Subject: newsletter
>
>Juan,
>
>Do you know which (the number) Zenith Newsletter had plans showing weights on
the ailerons?
>
>Thanks,
>Randy
Message 8
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| Subject: | Preliminar Relatory about Lopes Tragedy |
Hi Folks,
ABRAEX engineers (Brazilian Association for Experimental Aircraft)
called and assured a couple of items.
1- There is no FLUTTER evidence
2- It wasn't any mistake in manufacture, either.
3- It not entered in a spiral
4- Every single section of the plane fell together, they never spread
out on the crash site.
So, let's wait for the technical results.
Roberto Brito
Brazil.
Zodiac XL 601 w/ 192hrs
Jabiru 3300
Enigma
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: newsletter plans for Balancer |
RAndy,
check with number 41 as well. it has full plans for the CH300 balancer. tested
up to 230 mph and approved for that plane by CH. Get it OKed before applying
to the 601.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Randy <rpf@wi.rr.com>
>Sent: May 14, 2008 9:30 PM
>To: amyvega2005@earthlink.net
>Subject: newsletter
>
>Juan,
>
>Do you know which (the number) Zenith Newsletter had plans showing weights on
the ailerons?
>
>Thanks,
>Randy
Message 10
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|
ITS ALIVE!!! Today was a banner day for me. I
started my Corvair engine for the first time. WOW!!
Six blades and it started right up. It ran smooth as
a kitten and was completely dry, not a drop of oil or
fuel anywhere. Heres the important thing, if I can
build an engine, ANYONE can build an engine. I
started this project with ZERO engine experience. Two
years ago I didnt know the difference between a
crankshaft and a camshaft. I had never heard of a
pushrod and had never seen a lifter. I have one
person to thank for this wonderful experience, William
Wynne, the Corvair Authority. It was only through
Williams encouragement and support that I undertook
this project. He talked me through the tough parts
and kept me focused. I used all of Williams parts,
all of his recommended suppliers and vendors and used
his manuals and DVDs. The end result is a zero-time,
100 hp aircraft engine that I built myself. My total
cost was about $6000 firewall forward. I know it can
be done for a lot less, but I used every part
available. And anyway, where else can you get a new
aircraft engine for 6K. A bit thank you goes out to
Woody Harris for his help and support today. Check
out the new engine pictures on my building blog.
Rich Vetterli
601XL/Corvair
Pleasanton, CA
90% done, 90% to go
Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: now back to XL building |
Dear List
It is a shame that Zenith have not updated their drawing list since March
2006. Whilst we may not be able to use the changes it would be nice to
know what they are and possibly the reason for the change.
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL Plans builder in England
----- Original Message -----
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:05 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: now back to XL building
> <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>
> OK
> I thought I would ask an XL building Question just to be different.
>
> I have just noticed a difference in the plans and the parts list
>
> I am building the Center Console and side fairings 6-K-2 no 3 is the side
> fairing at 200 wide and 480 high. In the new Illustrated parts guide page
> 6-XN-24 Duel stick option it shows a new longer side fairing going up and
> over the foot channel as well as new parts 6K2-4.
>
> Has there been a change I missed, or is this longer side fairing part of
> the duel stick plans?? I was going to build a longer side fairing anyway
> to cover the rudder cables.
>
> So has anyone got a copy of the extended side fairings? what are the extra
> dimensions length and hight ect??
>
> back into building.
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183404#183404
>
>
>
Message 12
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Way to go, Richard!
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: It's Alive!! |
Congratulations Rich,
It's *the first exciting thing* that happens to a builder. Sounds like
you're getting close.
That Corvair is a great engine!
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Richard Vetterli wrote:
>
> ITS ALIVE!!! Today was a banner day for me. I
> started my Corvair engine for the first time. WOW!!
> Six blades and it started right up. It ran smooth as
> a kitten and was completely dry, not a drop of oil or
> fuel anywhere. Heres the important thing, if I can
> build an engine, ANYONE can build an engine. I
> started this project with ZERO engine experience. Two
> years ago I didnt know the difference between a
> crankshaft and a camshaft. I had never heard of a
> pushrod and had never seen a lifter. I have one
> person to thank for this wonderful experience, William
> Wynne, the Corvair Authority. It was only through
> Williams encouragement and support that I undertook
> this project. He talked me through the tough parts
> and kept me focused. I used all of Williams parts,
> all of his recommended suppliers and vendors and used
> his manuals and DVDs. The end result is a zero-time,
> 100 hp aircraft engine that I built myself. My total
> cost was about $6000 firewall forward. I know it can
> be done for a lot less, but I used every part
> available. And anyway, where else can you get a new
> aircraft engine for 6K. A bit thank you goes out to
> Woody Harris for his help and support today. Check
> out the new engine pictures on my building blog.
>
> Rich Vetterli
> 601XL/Corvair
> Pleasanton, CA
> 90% done, 90% to go
> Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: It's Alive!! |
Congrats! 8)
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183483#183483
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: now back to XL building |
the part you are making is more easthetics than anything, just make a template
with cardbaord and make your own. nothing to complicated. as for the gent in
U.K. Loosen up, its not a big deal.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Malcolm Hunt <malcolmhunt@mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
>Sent: May 16, 2008 4:42 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: now back to XL building
>
>
>Dear List
>
>It is a shame that Zenith have not updated their drawing list since March
>2006. Whilst we may not be able to use the changes it would be nice to
>know what they are and possibly the reason for the change.
>
>Malcolm Hunt
>CH601XL Plans builder in England
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:05 AM
>Subject: Zenith-List: now back to XL building
>
>
>> <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>>
>> OK
>> I thought I would ask an XL building Question just to be different.
>>
>> I have just noticed a difference in the plans and the parts list
>>
>> I am building the Center Console and side fairings 6-K-2 no 3 is the side
>> fairing at 200 wide and 480 high. In the new Illustrated parts guide page
>> 6-XN-24 Duel stick option it shows a new longer side fairing going up and
>> over the foot channel as well as new parts 6K2-4.
>>
>> Has there been a change I missed, or is this longer side fairing part of
>> the duel stick plans?? I was going to build a longer side fairing anyway
>> to cover the rudder cables.
>>
>> So has anyone got a copy of the extended side fairings? what are the extra
>> dimensions length and hight ect??
>>
>> back into building.
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183404#183404
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: now back to XL building |
I was planning to just extend it as per the photo , but if anyone has the measurements
or drawing it would sure make life easier.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183505#183505
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Preliminar Relatory about Lopes Tragedy |
Thanks for the update..
As was once said , the facts will speak for themselves. I feel your pain at the
loss of a close friend.
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183516#183516
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