---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/03/08: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:46 AM - Re: spark plugs and rain (Gary Ray) 2. 07:48 AM - Re: spark plugs and rain (Grant Corriveau) 3. 08:23 AM - Re: spark plugs and rain (DaveG601XL) 4. 09:49 AM - Re: Where you guys buying transponders from.Boy they're expensiv (Geoff Heap) 5. 09:55 AM - Re: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. (Karen Johnson) 6. 11:47 AM - Re: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. (Cndmovn) 7. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: spark plugs and rain (Gary Gower) 8. 12:27 PM - Re: spark plugs and rain (MaxNr@aol.com) 9. 12:45 PM - Re: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. (Karen Johnson) 10. 12:54 PM - Re: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. (Cndmovn) 11. 01:50 PM - Re: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. (Gig Giacona) 12. 04:50 PM - Moving wings to hangar? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 13. 05:04 PM - Re: Moving wings to hangar? (wade jones) 14. 05:31 PM - Re: Moving wings to hangar? (George Swinford) 15. 05:43 PM - Re: Moving wings to hangar? (Jaybannist@cs.com) 16. 07:46 PM - Re: Censorship, split lists, "bad-mouthing competitors", etc. - (leinad) 17. 08:00 PM - Re: Censorship, split lists, "bad-mouthing competitors", etc. - (kmccune) 18. 11:32 PM - Re: Moving wings to hangar? (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:20 AM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: spark plugs and rain With respect to VFR pilots and VFR aircraft One of my instructors, ex navy pilot, told me if you can't see all the way thru the rain shower area then you should consider going around it. Once you enter it, you can not be sure you will find any area with better conditions. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: Zenith-List: spark plugs and rain > > Hi guys, > > I recently flew thru some rain showers and was wondering if there was > any prospect of fouling the plugs electrically. Nothing was noticed, > but the rain that washed over my canopy and wings got rid of a lot of > bugs. Is there any reason to worry about a light rain? > > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:39 AM PST US From: Grant Corriveau Subject: Re: Zenith-List: spark plugs and rain Piston-powered commercial aircraft operate in all sorts of weather. I've never heard of spark plugs being a problem assuming that the engine compartment isn't being flooded. Even then, the plugs and ignition system is usually pretty water proof from the outside... Referring to spark plugs inside the cylinder, remember that the air is heated several degrees by compression, first in the induction system due to initial compression (and even manifold preheat on most automotive conversions like my CAM100); then with in-cylinder compression the heating is significant. All this to say that shortly after the air enters the cylinder, the relative humidity is really really low. Another small point - water injection was once a technique used to help gain even more compression of air into (mainly? exclusively?) jet engines. The heat absorbed by the energy of vaporization of water allowed for more dense intake of air, so more power - helpful on really hot days. so, fwiw - the rain may be helping our piston engines develop more power. In the previous responses to your posting, perhaps not enough stress has been placed on the wear and tear that occurs on non-metal propellors. Check the archives for George Pinneo's comments about how badly his composite prop was eroded by flight in rain. I plan to eventually have my Warp Drive prop re-finished with the nickel leading edges because now that I'm flying on the West Coast, rain is an inevitability. Grant GHTF 601HDS CAM100 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain From: "DaveG601XL" The Sensenich rep at Sun-N-Fun recommended pulling the power back to 2200 RPM if flying one of their wooden props in the rain. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, working on final assembly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186039#186039 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Where you guys buying transponders from.Boy they're expensiv From: "Geoff Heap" Last word on the subject It's back in. I gotta put the money out. Thanks for the advice. While waiting for responses I also queried EAA. Joe Norris wrote... " Short answer: Yes, youll need one. Longer answer: If your aircraft has an engine driven electrical system you are required to have a altitude reporting transponder anytime you are within the Mode C veil, even if you dont plan to enter the class B airspace itself. " Pretty cut and dried. Hope this helped other listers too....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186051#186051 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:59 AM PST US From: "Karen Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. My 601HD, Rotax 912 was built in Canada. You just have to go through the paper work and have the inspections. Sounds easy yes, there will be a time or two when you wonder what you are doing but it will all work out. Fred kar.fre@verizon ----- Original Message ----- From: Gord To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. Hello, I currently own a 601HD. It is registered as an advanced ultralight in Canada. Does anyone know if I can import this airplane into the U.S. I am moving to the U.S. and want to take my plane but may be forced to sell if it cannot be imported. Thanks Gord CH601 on amphibs rotax 914 turbo Gord601@yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:58 AM PST US From: Cndmovn Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. Karen: Was it registered as a homebuilt or Aula? On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Karen Johnson wrote: > My 601HD, Rotax 912 was built in Canada. You just have to go through the > paper work and have the inspections. Sounds easy yes, there will be a time > or two when you wonder what you are doing but it will all work out. Fred > kar.fre@verizon > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Gord > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, June 02, 2008 7:33 PM > *Subject:* Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. > > Hello, > I currently own a 601HD. It is registered as an advanced ultralight in > Canada. Does anyone know if I can import this airplane into the U.S. I am > moving to the U.S. and want to take my plane but may be forced to sell if it > cannot be imported. > > Thanks > Gord > CH601 on amphibs rotax 914 turbo > Gord601@yahoo.ca > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:14 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain Just  a fast comment,   The 2,200 rpm are in the propeller,  so do your math with the reduction drive  if using a Rotax 912...   Yes there are at least a couple of 912's  using wooden props around here.  (not mine).   Saludos Gary Gower. --- On Tue, 6/3/08, DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> wrote: From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> The Sensenich rep at Sun-N-Fun recommended pulling the power back to 2200 RPM if flying one of their wooden props in the rain. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, working on final assembly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186039#186039 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:18 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain I don't think rain will effect a normal ignition system. There is a lot of rain here along the Gulf Coast and a lot of us fly VFR in it. A good point well made is to not fly through anything that you cannot see through. After a dozen hours, a little in rain, my wood prop looked like it had been dragged behind a pick up truck. The new clear finish had been applied over the brass abrasion strips. The degradation started there. Bob Do not archive ************** Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:21 PM PST US From: "Karen Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. It was registered as experimental amateur built. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cndmovn To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. Karen: Was it registered as a homebuilt or Aula? On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Karen Johnson wrote: My 601HD, Rotax 912 was built in Canada. You just have to go through the paper work and have the inspections. Sounds easy yes, there will be a time or two when you wonder what you are doing but it will all work out. Fred kar.fre@verizon ----- Original Message ----- From: Gord To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. Hello, I currently own a 601HD. It is registered as an advanced ultralight in Canada. Does anyone know if I can import this airplane into the U.S. I am moving to the U.S. and want to take my plane but may be forced to sell if it cannot be imported. Thanks Gord CH601 on amphibs rotax 914 turbo Gord601@yahoo.ca href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:55 PM PST US From: Cndmovn Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. That I think is going to be the issue. The plane in question is registered as an advanced ultralight. On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Karen Johnson wrote: > It was registered as experimental amateur built. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Cndmovn > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:44 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. > > Karen: Was it registered as a homebuilt or Aula? > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Karen Johnson > wrote: > >> My 601HD, Rotax 912 was built in Canada. You just have to go through the >> paper work and have the inspections. Sounds easy yes, there will be a time >> or two when you wonder what you are doing but it will all work out. Fred >> kar.fre@verizon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Gord >> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Monday, June 02, 2008 7:33 PM >> *Subject:* Zenith-List: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. >> >> Hello, >> I currently own a 601HD. It is registered as an advanced ultralight in >> Canada. Does anyone know if I can import this airplane into the U.S. I am >> moving to the U.S. and want to take my plane but may be forced to sell if it >> cannot be imported. >> >> Thanks >> Gord >> CH601 on amphibs rotax 914 turbo >> Gord601@yahoo.ca >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Importing a 601 from Canada to the U.S. From: "Gig Giacona" A call to the EAA at 888-EAA-INFO or its' Canadian counterpart would probably get you a solid answer. cndmovn(at)gmail.com wrote: > That I think is going to be the issue. The plane in question is registered as an advanced ultralight. > > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186090#186090 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:06 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Moving wings to hangar? Gang: I am very close to moving my A/C to a hangar for final assembly. My current plan is to move the wings one at a time in the well-padded back of a pick-up truck, with the tail gate down. Road distance to the airport is about 3 miles, and I will likely do this late at night to get minimum traffic. I plan to buy a pair of those cheap red flashers and tape one to each rear corner. I would like to hear comments about how to pad/secure the wings in the truck, whether moving two at a time is possible, and what kinds of speeds are reasonable. If someone has another suggestion/experience on how to move the wings, that would also be appreciated. (I do have a standing wing rack, which I could use if I removed the rollers and could find a way to secure the wings properly?) Final note, wings are already polished (much easier to do on the bench than on the plane), so protecting them from scratches is quite important. Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:28 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Moving wings to hangar? Hi Andy ,I have had good luck by placing a couple of inter tubes under the wing leading edge ,then airing them up .Once pulled a T-Craft from Texas to Iowa on a trailer with no springs with this method and got there with no damage. Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Andrew Elliott To: Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Moving wings to hangar? Gang: I am very close to moving my A/C to a hangar for final assembly. My current plan is to move the wings one at a time in the well-padded back of a pick-up truck, with the tail gate down. Road distance to the airport is about 3 miles, and I will likely do this late at night to get minimum traffic. I plan to buy a pair of those cheap red flashers and tape one to each rear corner. I would like to hear comments about how to pad/secure the wings in the truck, whether moving two at a time is possible, and what kinds of speeds are reasonable. If someone has another suggestion/experience on how to move the wings, that would also be appreciated. (I do have a standing wing rack, which I could use if I removed the rollers and could find a way to secure the wings properly?) Final note, wings are already polished (much easier to do on the bench than on the plane), so protecting them from scratches is quite important. Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:38 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Moving wings to hangar? Andy: I moved both my HD wings about three miles from my garage to a storage unit in the bed of a pickup. The wings were (and still are) standing back-to back, leading edge down, in an a-frame rack which I knocked together from some cheap 1 by 4s. I padded the rack with scraps of carpet. The wings rode well in the pickup, and I'm sure I could have hauled them farther and at higher speed with no problem. If you need to store the wings for a while, this is a good way to do it. If you are interested, I can take a few pictures to give you the idea. George ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Andrew Elliott To: Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Moving wings to hangar? Gang: I am very close to moving my A/C to a hangar for final assembly. My current plan is to move the wings one at a time in the well-padded back of a pick-up truck, with the tail gate down. Road distance to the airport is about 3 miles, and I will likely do this late at night to get minimum traffic. I plan to buy a pair of those cheap red flashers and tape one to each rear corner. I would like to hear comments about how to pad/secure the wings in the truck, whether moving two at a time is possible, and what kinds of speeds are reasonable. If someone has another suggestion/experience on how to move the wings, that would also be appreciated. (I do have a standing wing rack, which I could use if I removed the rollers and could find a way to secure the wings properly?) Final note, wings are already polished (much easier to do on the bench than on the plane), so protecting them from scratches is quite important. Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD, Corvair, building... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 5/31/2008 12:25 PM ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:43 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Moving wings to hangar? Andy, I moved my wings from my garage to the hanger, 40 miles away, in late April. I tried to figure a way to do what you have suggested; but I couldn't convince myself that I could do it without damaging them, even one at the time. I rented a 16' Penske truck. I used the rack I had made for storing the wings. I removed the rollers, attached 4 angles to the bottom runner and screwed those to the wood floor of the truck. On the rack, the wings were supported at three points with 3" wide nylon web strap slings. I wanted to spread the load out a little, so I got some cheap sheet vinyl flooring at Home Depot to span between the straps. I secured the wings with a couple of the ratcheting nylon straps, under the bottom runners of the rack and over the wings. The rear spar was padded with a short 2 x 4. They made the trip with no damage whatsoever. No sweat! Jay "Dr. Andrew Elliott" wrote: >Gang: > >I am very close to moving my A/C to a hangar for final assembly. My current plan is to move the wings one at a time in the well-padded back of a pick-up truck, with the tail gate down. Road distance to the airport is about 3 miles, and I will likely do this late at night to get minimum traffic. I plan to buy a pair of those cheap red flashers and tape one to each rear corner. > >I would like to hear comments about how to pad/secure the wings in the truck, whether moving two at a time is possible, and what kinds of speeds are reasonable. If someone has another suggestion/experience on how to move the wings, that would also be appreciated. (I do have a standing wing rack, which I could use if I removed the rollers and could find a way to secure the wings properly?) > >Final note, wings are already polished (much easier to do on the bench than on the plane), so protecting them from scratches is quite important. > >Thanks, >Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ >N601GE (reserved) >601XL/TD, Corvair, building... > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Censorship, split lists, "bad-mouthing competitors", etc. - From: "leinad" Dave, The only thing I differ with you on is that unlike you I am a 601XL builder. I say, let the ideas fly! From my experience many of the folks that are builders have more than a little engineering savvy. And I'm speaking as someone that has worked as both a mechanical engineer and now as a software engineer. On the part of some, there seams to be a lack of respect for the qualifications of the builders to discuss design issues, and an almost religious faith in the designer. With only a few exceptions I rarely see anyone jumping to conclusions (as is claimed), but there is free discussions of the possibilities. Among the few conclusions that are jumped to is the idea that there is nothing wrong with the design. Right now I think the evidence on that matter is mixed. I for one am open to the possibility that there is a design flaw. I'm also opened to the possibility that all the wing folding accidents can be explained by the mistreatment of the airframes. I wish I were confident that the NTSB would issue its final report soon, and that the report be conclusive. I'm not. I have a tip for those who want to choose which topics they read. Long ago I stopped receiving these posts as email. Instead I visit the Matronix web sight and browse the post and read just the ones I find interesting (which is most). Anyway for me, it's been a better way of filtering what I read. Dan 601XL/Corvair Plans builder. -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186140#186140 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:35 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Censorship, split lists, "bad-mouthing competitors", etc. - From: "kmccune" Dan, You bring up a point that I had not considered, regarding getting the list via email. I long ago stopped getting lists emailed to me. Just way too much info, and like you said, lots of things I didn't want to read and didn't agree with. I have only browsed this list, so I have to apologize to any that I may annoyed with my attitude regarding my out spoken blanket opinion, regarding posts that annoy you to one extreme or another. Regards Kevin do not archive -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186144#186144 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:24 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Moving wings to hangar? I=92ve moved wings a lot of ways over varying distances: 20, 800, 1800 and 2300 miles. I=92ve moved them may ways (pictures attached) and haven=92t damaged any yet. For two of the long trips the wings were hung from the sides of rental trucks from straps padded with folded furniture pads. For the longest trip the wings rode flat-side down on 2x4s padded with furniture pads. For the short trip I just loaded the wings in their cradle onto an open trailer. The set taken for the longest ride were painted white and *one* area under a strap picked up what looks like ink from the folded furniture pad. These were 701 wings with the leading-edge slats attached. Bottom line is the wings are tough and weigh so little as to not require a lot of support. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Andrew Elliott Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Moving wings to hangar? Gang: - I am very close to moving my A/C to a hangar for final assembly.- My current plan is to move the wings one at a time in the well-padded back of a pick-up truck, with the tail gate down.- Road distance to the airport is about 3 miles, and I will likely do this late at night to get minimum traffic. I plan to buy a pair of those cheap red flashers and tape one to each rear corner. - I would like to hear comments about how to pad/secure the wings in the truck, whether moving two at a time is possible,-and what kinds of speeds are reasonable.- If someone has another suggestion/experience on how to move the wings, that would also be appreciated.- (I do have a standing wing rack, which I could use if I removed the rollers and could find a way to secure the wings properly?) - Final note, wings are already polished (much easier to do on the bench than on the plane), so protecting them from scratches is quite important. - Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD, Corvair, building... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.