---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/06/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:08 AM - Re: chargers for Odyssey (n85ae) 2. 07:56 AM - N55ZC: first pictures (Jay Maynard) 3. 08:13 AM - Re: N55ZC: first pictures (steve) 4. 10:47 AM - Re: N55ZC: first pictures (William Dominguez) 5. 12:10 PM - First Flight of 601EL, Really! (Scott Thatcher) 6. 12:23 PM - Re: First Flight of 601EL, Really! (Iberplanes IGL) 7. 12:47 PM - Re: First Flight of 601EL, Really! (William Dominguez) 8. 01:10 PM - Re: First Flight of 601EL, Really! (wade jones) 9. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: spark plugs and rain () 10. 01:27 PM - Re: First Flight of 601EL, Really! (Gary Ray) 11. 01:29 PM - Re: spark plugs and rain (kmccune) 12. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: spark plugs and rain (Carlos Sa) 13. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: spark plugs and rain (Paul Mulwitz) 14. 06:40 PM - Re: Zenith Builder (Jerry Shepard) 15. 07:12 PM - Re: First Flight of 601EL, Really! (Ron Lendon) 16. 07:35 PM - Re: Zenith Builder (Art Gibeaut) 17. 07:46 PM - Engine cowling placement (Ken) 18. 07:50 PM - Re: Zenith Builder (Jerry Shepard) 19. 08:17 PM - Re: Engine cowling placement (Craig Payne) 20. 08:18 PM - Re: spark plugs and rain (kmccune) 21. 08:56 PM - Re: Zenith Builder (Andrewlieser) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: chargers for Odyssey From: "n85ae" The nice thing about Odyssey Batteries, is they don't dip in cold weather like regular lead acid. My PC-680 has never had any cold weather issues even at -5F. Providing I put on the engine preheater enough to get the engine warm the PC-680 stills spins it plenty fast. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186484#186484 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:21 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Zenith-List: N55ZC: first pictures I just got the first pictures of my (nearly) completed aircraft. They're on my LiveJournal at http://jmaynard.livejournal.com/336142.html . -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 10 June) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:58 AM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N55ZC: first pictures Whow ! Nice looking..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Maynard" Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:51 AM Subject: Zenith-List: N55ZC: first pictures > > I just got the first pictures of my (nearly) completed aircraft. They're > on > my LiveJournal at http://jmaynard.livejournal.com/336142.html . > -- > Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com > http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net > Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) > AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 10 June) > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:29 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N55ZC: first pictures That's one great looking Zodiac Jay. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom I just got the first pictures of my (nearly) completed aircraft. They're on my LiveJournal at http://jmaynard.livejournal.com/336142.html . -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 10 June) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:31 PM PST US From: "Scott Thatcher" Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight of 601EL, Really! 601EL is a 601XL with a Warp Drive prop and a 100HP Corvair engine. OK Guys, I did it! At 12:30 today (Friday), I made two high speed passes down runway 8R at F45 (North County Airport in Palm Beach Gardens, FL), and managed to get about 5 feet of air between me and the tires. On the third attempt, I switched to the right ignition and got a little better full power output. While looking at the RPMs (2550), I then looked up and noticed that the speed was 70mph and I was a lot closer to the end of the runway than I felt comfortable with. Now I know that the real first flight was done by Gus Warren but that flight also was just above the runway, not actually in the pattern. Knowing that I wouldn't stop in time, I elected to continue flying. Since I had not done a test with the nose pointed upward while tethered to the ground, I elected to do a very shallow climb out while looking down to see where I would put it in the event of an engine failure. I never noticed before how really poor the terrain is on the end of 8R at F45! I climbed at about 500 fpm and 90 mph (I'll get better as I practice with stalls, etc) and made the right tun to crosswind. By the time I turned downwind, I was still only 700' and still climbing. The speed was inching up to about 110mph and by the time I was abeam the approach numbers, I noticed someone on a three mile final so I extended the downwind considerably. I throttled back to about 2000 and then turned Base followed by a quick turn to final. Descending at 500 fpm and a speed of 90mph, I came over the numbers a little hot but it floated for awhile and then touched down in the nicest 3-point attitude (if I had a tailwheel), with the nose coming down shortly after. I did not use flaps on takeoff or on final. As far as handling, the elevator seemed heavy as did the ailerons (I use the riveted ailerons). I was able to trim up the elevator slightly on downwind which gave my arm a rest. I had just gotten done with three hours in a Gobosh 700 with balanced controls, so I may have been mentally comparing the two without knowing it. Oh yes, and for those who mentioned that I was running hot previously, let me note that I cut the openings of the 601cowl to the recommended diameter of 4 7/8" (actually mine missed the mark slightly as I cut it to just 4 3/4") Previously, I had not made the cuts to the nose bowl and my temps got fairly hot. Here are the numbers I encountered during the high speed taxi and just after the first true flight along with the time of day. Activity Taxi ---High Speed Taxi--- Flight Time 11:45 11:58 12:10 12:30 Fuel Pres 4 2.9 2.9 4.3 Oil Pres 50 40 30 40 Oil Temp --- 190 225 228 CHT-CHT 200-350 250-350 250-350 200-320 EGT-EGT 800-1020 850-1050 800-950 750-950 RPM's 700-1200 2500 2550 2700 Voltage 12.2 12.2 11.9 11.7 The two high speed taxis were between 11:58 and 12:10. The actual flight around the pattern was just before the 12:30 data (the 12:30 reading was after taxiing for about 4-5 minutes) Hope the data helps the next bunch. Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA N601EL, http://placestofly.com, EAA203 http://mykitlog.com/sdthatcher ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:16 PM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight of 601EL, Really! Thats good news, congratulations. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain 2008/6/6, Scott Thatcher : > 601EL is a 601XL with a Warp Drive prop and a 100HP Corvair engine. > > OK Guys, I did it! At 12:30 today (Friday), I made two high speed passes > down runway 8R at F45 (North County Airport in Palm Beach Gardens, FL), and > managed to get about 5 feet of air between me and the tires. > > On the third attempt, I switched to the right ignition and got a little > better full power output. While looking at the RPMs (2550), I then looked up > and noticed that the speed was 70mph and I was a lot closer to the end of > the runway than I felt comfortable with. Now I know that the real first > flight was done by Gus Warren but that flight also was just above the > runway, not actually in the pattern. Knowing that I wouldn't stop in time, I > elected to continue flying. > > Since I had not done a test with the nose pointed upward while tethered to > the ground, I elected to do a very shallow climb out while looking down to > see where I would put it in the event of an engine failure. I never noticed > before how really poor the terrain is on the end of 8R at F45! > > I climbed at about 500 fpm and 90 mph (I'll get better as I practice with > stalls, etc) and made the right tun to crosswind. By the time I turned > downwind, I was still only 700' and still climbing. The speed was inching up > to about 110mph and by the time I was abeam the approach numbers, I noticed > someone on a three mile final so I extended the downwind considerably. I > throttled back to about 2000 and then turned Base followed by a quick turn > to final. > > Descending at 500 fpm and a speed of 90mph, I came over the numbers a little > hot but it floated for awhile and then touched down in the nicest 3-point > attitude (if I had a tailwheel), with the nose coming down shortly after. I > did not use flaps on takeoff or on final. > > As far as handling, the elevator seemed heavy as did the ailerons (I use the > riveted ailerons). I was able to trim up the elevator slightly on downwind > which gave my arm a rest. I had just gotten done with three hours in a > Gobosh 700 with balanced controls, so I may have been mentally comparing the > two without knowing it. > > Oh yes, and for those who mentioned that I was running hot previously, let > me note that I cut the openings of the 601cowl to the recommended diameter > of 4 7/8" (actually mine missed the mark slightly as I cut it to just 4 > 3/4") Previously, I had not made the cuts to the nose bowl and my temps got > fairly hot. > > Here are the numbers I encountered during the high speed taxi and just after > the first true flight along with the time of day. > > Activity Taxi ---High Speed Taxi--- Flight > Time 11:45 11:58 12:10 12:30 > Fuel Pres 4 2.9 2.9 4.3 > Oil Pres 50 40 30 40 > Oil Temp --- 190 225 228 > CHT-CHT 200-350 250-350 250-350 200-320 > EGT-EGT 800-1020 850-1050 800-950 750-950 > RPM's 700-1200 2500 2550 2700 > Voltage 12.2 12.2 11.9 11.7 > > The two high speed taxis were between 11:58 and 12:10. The actual flight > around the pattern was just before the 12:30 data (the 12:30 reading was > after taxiing for about 4-5 minutes) > > Hope the data helps the next bunch. > > Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL > 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA > N601EL, http://placestofly.com, EAA203 > http://mykitlog.com/sdthatcher -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:26 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight of 601EL, Really! Great news Scott! Congratulations. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Scott Thatcher wrote: 601EL is a 601XL with a Warp Drive prop and a 100HP Corvair engine. OK Guys, I did it! At 12:30 today (Friday), I made two high speed passes down runway 8R at F45 (North County Airport in Palm Beach Gardens, FL), and managed to get about 5 feet of air between me and the tires. On the third attempt, I switched to the right ignition and got a little better full power output. While looking at the RPMs (2550), I then looked up and noticed that the speed was 70mph and I was a lot closer to the end of the runway than I felt comfortable with. Now I know that the real first flight was done by Gus Warren but that flight also was just above the runway, not actually in the pattern. Knowing that I wouldn't stop in time, I elected to continue flying. Since I had not done a test with the nose pointed upward while tethered to the ground, I elected to do a very shallow climb out while looking down to see where I would put it in the event of an engine failure. I never noticed before how really poor the terrain is on the end of 8R at F45! I climbed at about 500 fpm and 90 mph (I'll get better as I practice with stalls, etc) and made the right tun to crosswind. By the time I turned downwind, I was still only 700' and still climbing. The speed was inching up to about 110mph and by the time I was abeam the approach numbers, I noticed someone on a three mile final so I extended the downwind considerably. I throttled back to about 2000 and then turned Base followed by a quick turn to final. Descending at 500 fpm and a speed of 90mph, I came over the numbers a little hot but it floated for awhile and then touched down in the nicest 3-point attitude (if I had a tailwheel), with the nose coming down shortly after. I did not use flaps on takeoff or on final. As far as handling, the elevator seemed heavy as did the ailerons (I use the riveted ailerons). I was able to trim up the elevator slightly on downwind which gave my arm a rest. I had just gotten done with three hours in a Gobosh 700 with balanced controls, so I may have been mentally comparing the two without knowing it. Oh yes, and for those who mentioned that I was running hot previously, let me note that I cut the openings of the 601cowl to the recommended diameter of 4 7/8" (actually mine missed the mark slightly as I cut it to just 4 3/4") Previously, I had not made the cuts to the nose bowl and my temps got fairly hot. Here are the numbers I encountered during the high speed taxi and just after the first true flight along with the time of day. Activity Taxi ---High Speed Taxi--- Flight Time 11:45 11:58 12:10 12:30 Fuel Pres 4 2.9 2.9 4.3 Oil Pres 50 40 30 40 Oil Temp --- 190 225 228 CHT-CHT 200-350 250-350 250-350 200-320 EGT-EGT 800-1020 850-1050 800-950 750-950 RPM's 700-1200 2500 2550 2700 Voltage 12.2 12.2 11.9 11.7 The two high speed taxis were between 11:58 and 12:10. The actual flight around the pattern was just before the 12:30 data (the 12:30 reading was after taxiing for about 4-5 minutes) Hope the data helps the next bunch. Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA N601EL, http://placestofly.com, EAA203 http://mykitlog.com/sdthatcher ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:14 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight of 601EL, Really! Congratulations Scott ,I know these figures will be beneficial. Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Thatcher To: Matronics Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight of 601EL, Really! 601EL is a 601XL with a Warp Drive prop and a 100HP Corvair engine. OK Guys, I did it! At 12:30 today (Friday), I made two high speed passes down runway 8R at F45 (North County Airport in Palm Beach Gardens, FL), and managed to get about 5 feet of air between me and the tires. On the third attempt, I switched to the right ignition and got a little better full power output. While looking at the RPMs (2550), I then looked up and noticed that the speed was 70mph and I was a lot closer to the end of the runway than I felt comfortable with. Now I know that the real first flight was done by Gus Warren but that flight also was just above the runway, not actually in the pattern. Knowing that I wouldn't stop in time, I elected to continue flying. Since I had not done a test with the nose pointed upward while tethered to the ground, I elected to do a very shallow climb out while looking down to see where I would put it in the event of an engine failure. I never noticed before how really poor the terrain is on the end of 8R at F45! I climbed at about 500 fpm and 90 mph (I'll get better as I practice with stalls, etc) and made the right tun to crosswind. By the time I turned downwind, I was still only 700' and still climbing. The speed was inching up to about 110mph and by the time I was abeam the approach numbers, I noticed someone on a three mile final so I extended the downwind considerably. I throttled back to about 2000 and then turned Base followed by a quick turn to final. Descending at 500 fpm and a speed of 90mph, I came over the numbers a little hot but it floated for awhile and then touched down in the nicest 3-point attitude (if I had a tailwheel), with the nose coming down shortly after. I did not use flaps on takeoff or on final. As far as handling, the elevator seemed heavy as did the ailerons (I use the riveted ailerons). I was able to trim up the elevator slightly on downwind which gave my arm a rest. I had just gotten done with three hours in a Gobosh 700 with balanced controls, so I may have been mentally comparing the two without knowing it. Oh yes, and for those who mentioned that I was running hot previously, let me note that I cut the openings of the 601cowl to the recommended diameter of 4 7/8" (actually mine missed the mark slightly as I cut it to just 4 3/4") Previously, I had not made the cuts to the nose bowl and my temps got fairly hot. Here are the numbers I encountered during the high speed taxi and just after the first true flight along with the time of day. Activity Taxi ---High Speed Taxi--- Flight Time 11:45 11:58 12:10 12:30 Fuel Pres 4 2.9 2.9 4.3 Oil Pres 50 40 30 40 Oil Temp --- 190 225 228 CHT-CHT 200-350 250-350 250-350 200-320 EGT-EGT 800-1020 850-1050 800-950 750-950 RPM's 700-1200 2500 2550 2700 Voltage 12.2 12.2 11.9 11.7 The two high speed taxis were between 11:58 and 12:10. The actual flight around the pattern was just before the 12:30 data (the 12:30 reading was after taxiing for about 4-5 minutes) Hope the data helps the next bunch. Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA N601EL, http://placestofly.com, EAA203 http://mykitlog.com/sdthatcher ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:47 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain ooooookaay, so it should be all right to fill your bathtub with distilled, demineralized water, jump in, and then drop your (plugged in) hair dryer in with you? Just checkin'......... Paul Rodriguez DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: kmccune To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain > Rain water does not have any (many?) minerals, so it should not conduct or short your electrical system. Kevin do not archive -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185970#185970 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:53 PM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight of 601EL, Really! Scott Congratulations. Double Check your charging circuit. The voltages are too low to maintain your battery. Anything above 1100 rpm should read in the 13.0 - 14.2 range depending on what you have turned on. (Assuming a JD Dynamo ) The numbers you show are what I would expect if your were running on battery only. You might see 12.2 at slow idle. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Thatcher To: Matronics Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight of 601EL, Really! 601EL is a 601XL with a Warp Drive prop and a 100HP Corvair engine. OK Guys, I did it! At 12:30 today (Friday), I made two high speed passes down runway 8R at F45 (North County Airport in Palm Beach Gardens, FL), and managed to get about 5 feet of air between me and the tires. On the third attempt, I switched to the right ignition and got a little better full power output. While looking at the RPMs (2550), I then looked up and noticed that the speed was 70mph and I was a lot closer to the end of the runway than I felt comfortable with. Now I know that the real first flight was done by Gus Warren but that flight also was just above the runway, not actually in the pattern. Knowing that I wouldn't stop in time, I elected to continue flying. Since I had not done a test with the nose pointed upward while tethered to the ground, I elected to do a very shallow climb out while looking down to see where I would put it in the event of an engine failure. I never noticed before how really poor the terrain is on the end of 8R at F45! I climbed at about 500 fpm and 90 mph (I'll get better as I practice with stalls, etc) and made the right tun to crosswind. By the time I turned downwind, I was still only 700' and still climbing. The speed was inching up to about 110mph and by the time I was abeam the approach numbers, I noticed someone on a three mile final so I extended the downwind considerably. I throttled back to about 2000 and then turned Base followed by a quick turn to final. Descending at 500 fpm and a speed of 90mph, I came over the numbers a little hot but it floated for awhile and then touched down in the nicest 3-point attitude (if I had a tailwheel), with the nose coming down shortly after. I did not use flaps on takeoff or on final. As far as handling, the elevator seemed heavy as did the ailerons (I use the riveted ailerons). I was able to trim up the elevator slightly on downwind which gave my arm a rest. I had just gotten done with three hours in a Gobosh 700 with balanced controls, so I may have been mentally comparing the two without knowing it. Oh yes, and for those who mentioned that I was running hot previously, let me note that I cut the openings of the 601cowl to the recommended diameter of 4 7/8" (actually mine missed the mark slightly as I cut it to just 4 3/4") Previously, I had not made the cuts to the nose bowl and my temps got fairly hot. Here are the numbers I encountered during the high speed taxi and just after the first true flight along with the time of day. Activity Taxi ---High Speed Taxi--- Flight Time 11:45 11:58 12:10 12:30 Fuel Pres 4 2.9 2.9 4.3 Oil Pres 50 40 30 40 Oil Temp --- 190 225 228 CHT-CHT 200-350 250-350 250-350 200-320 EGT-EGT 800-1020 850-1050 800-950 750-950 RPM's 700-1200 2500 2550 2700 Voltage 12.2 12.2 11.9 11.7 The two high speed taxis were between 11:58 and 12:10. The actual flight around the pattern was just before the 12:30 data (the 12:30 reading was after taxiing for about 4-5 minutes) Hope the data helps the next bunch. Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA N601EL, http://placestofly.com, EAA203 http://mykitlog.com/sdthatcher ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain From: "kmccune" Some of the machines I work with have Vac tubes running 12KVDC on the plate, it is directly cooled with distilled water from walmart. The pump that circulates it is well grounded and made of conductive material. So ya, go ahead, it it turns your crank. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186562#186562 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:40 PM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain That's what theory says. But I'll let you jump in first... Carlos Do not archive On 6/6/08, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: > ooooookaay, so it should be all right to fill your bathtub with distilled, > demineralized water, jump in, and then drop your (plugged in) hair dryer in > with you? Just checkin'......... > > Paul Rodriguez > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kmccune > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:50 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain > > > > > > Rain water does not have any (many?) minerals, so it should not conduct or > short your electrical system. > > Kevin > do not archive > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the > things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the > bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your > sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185970#185970 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:54 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain Actually, the hair dryer and bath tub make very poor weapons. Only in Hollywood is such a thing a way to kill someone. Even if there were a real danger from this silly action, the GFI power outlet required in bath rooms would prevent a significant amount of electrical shock for the bather. Paul do not archive At 01:07 PM 6/6/2008, you wrote: >ooooookaay, so it should be all right to fill your bathtub with >distilled, demineralized water, jump in, and then drop your (plugged >in) hair dryer in with you? Just checkin'......... > >Paul Rodriguez >DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:56 PM PST US From: "Jerry Shepard" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder Do you fit this profile? I complain about every thing but have no Ideas of my own. Even though I know that al least 6 601's have had fatal crashes, 2 with the skins coming off and at least 2 with the lower spar cap failing, I feel the airplane is just fine and it always happens to someone else. Even though the plans I bought show +6 and _6 "G"s I don't think there are any problems now that the designer has changed the -"G"s to -3 and reccomended a limit to the elevator - travel which may be a problem if your CG is not quite perfect. Get the picture??? Think about it!!!! This designer needs to step up to the plate and let those of us that are building according to his plans just what area of his design is prone to failure before his published and sold +6 -6 "G"s. and how to remedy the problem!! I don't fit all of your criteria, and I have talked to Chris on many occasions about the changes to his design I have made. Some are just common sense. PS Neither the skins or the wings on our 601 will come off...Something else will fail first. ----- Original Message ----- From: roger lambert To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder Do you fit this profile? 1. I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but I read alot about crashes in other types of high speed, pressurized airplanes built 30 to fifty years ago and interpolate from that to this airplane. 2. I change the thickness of the metal in one or more parts of the airplane without consideration of the distribution of the stress loads to other parts of the airplane. 3. I add doublers to various parts of the airframe also without structural analysis. 4. I buy materials for construction, sometimes from foreign countries to save a buck- without getting certifications that the materials meet the standards. 5. I change the materials from 6061 to 2024 or some other alloy without getting information as to the appropriateness of that alloy in that part being verified. 6. I don't care what the airplane is designed for- I'm going to " yank and bank" because I could have done what Chuck Yeager did if only I had the chance. My only flight time was in a 152. 7. My medical expired 7-8 years ago. 8. My plane hasn't been finished although I've been working on it for 5+ years. I just keep on making changes to make it better and keep me from ever having to actually fly it. 9. I'm sure I "know" more than the designer, who is fat or lazy or incompetent and is trying to hide his mistakes by refusing to help in the accident investigation and nothing, including the facts is going to dissuade me from that knowledge. Plus, I called them once and they didn't get back to me within 30 minutes and I won't stand for being "dissed" by anybody. 10. I'm sure the FAA and NTSB are fat, lazy and incompetent and really don't care about these accidents which are surely caused by some design error and/or are in league with the designer or some tri-lateral commission to steal our precious freedoms or drain our precious bodily fluids. 11. I intend to make significant changes to the control surfaces based on a book I partially read once. 12. I never intend to go back and check the torque on bolts or cable tensions once the airplane is completed. 13. Despite all this, I fully intend to blame the designer for any incident that happens anywhere in the world for any kit ot clone ever built by anyone. Welcome to the group. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight of 601EL, Really! From: "Ron Lendon" Congratulations Scott, I'm jealous! do not archive -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186615#186615 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:52 PM PST US From: Art Gibeaut Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder Sorry Jerry, you lost me with your innuendo based, quasi-logic. --- On Fri, 6/6/08, Jerry Shepard wrote: > From: Jerry Shepard > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 8:37 PM > Do you fit this profile? > I complain about every thing but have no Ideas of my own. > > Even though I know that al least 6 601's have had fatal > crashes, 2 with the skins coming off and at least 2 with the > lower spar cap failing, I feel the airplane is just fine > and it always happens to someone else. > > Even though the plans I bought show +6 and _6 > "G"s I don't think there are any problems now > that the designer has changed the -"G"s to -3 and > reccomended a limit to the elevator - travel which may be a > problem if your CG is not quite perfect. > > Get the picture??? Think about it!!!! > > This designer needs to step up to the plate and let those > of us that are building according to his plans just what > area of his design is prone to failure before his published > and sold +6 -6 "G"s. and how to remedy the > problem!! > I don't fit all of your criteria, and I have talked to > Chris on many occasions about the changes to his design I > have made. Some are just common sense. > > PS Neither the skins or the wings on our 601 will come > off...Something else will fail first. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: roger lambert > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:56 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder > > > Do you fit this profile? > 1. I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but I read alot > about crashes in other types of high speed, pressurized > airplanes built 30 to fifty years ago and interpolate from > that to this airplane. > > 2. I change the thickness of the metal in one or more > parts of the airplane without consideration of the > distribution of the stress loads to other parts of the > airplane. > > 3. I add doublers to various parts of the airframe also > without structural analysis. > > 4. I buy materials for construction, sometimes from > foreign countries to save a buck- without getting > certifications that the materials meet the standards. > > 5. I change the materials from 6061 to 2024 or some other > alloy without getting information as to the appropriateness > of that alloy in that part being verified. > > 6. I don't care what the airplane is designed for- > I'm going to " yank and bank" because I could > have done what Chuck Yeager did if only I had the chance. My > only flight time was in a 152. > > 7. My medical expired 7-8 years ago. > > 8. My plane hasn't been finished although I've > been working on it for 5+ years. I just keep on making > changes to make it better and keep me from ever having to > actually fly it. > > 9. I'm sure I "know" more than the > designer, who is fat or lazy or incompetent and is trying > to hide his mistakes by refusing to help in the accident > investigation and nothing, including the facts is going to > dissuade me from that knowledge. Plus, I called them once > and they didn't get back to me within 30 minutes and I > won't stand for being "dissed" by anybody. > > 10. I'm sure the FAA and NTSB are fat, lazy and > incompetent and really don't care about these accidents > which are surely caused by some design error and/or are in > league with the designer or some tri-lateral commission to > steal our precious freedoms or drain our precious bodily > fluids. > > 11. I intend to make significant changes to the control > surfaces based on a book I partially read once. > > 12. I never intend to go back and check the torque on > bolts or cable tensions once the airplane is completed. > > 13. Despite all this, I fully intend to blame the > designer for any incident that happens anywhere in the > world for any kit ot clone ever built by anyone. > > Welcome to the group. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Engine cowling placement From: "Ken" I just got my O-235 hanging on the 601XL. Today I laid the top cowling on the engine and I am puzzled about the exact placement. If I lay it so that the rear edge of the cowling is even with the rear of the top flange on the firewall the front roll of the opening clears the flywheel about 1/2 an inch. Is that the correct placement or is that too far back. Assuming that is the correct placement, would I put my cowling fasteners (haven't picked them out yet, but would appreciate any recommendations) through the firewall flange or put them in front of the FW through the skin(s). Thanks in advance. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186623#186623 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:57 PM PST US From: "Jerry Shepard" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder we all have an adgenda,---- or do we???? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Gibeaut" Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder > > Sorry Jerry, you lost me with your innuendo based, quasi-logic. > > > --- On Fri, 6/6/08, Jerry Shepard wrote: > >> From: Jerry Shepard >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 8:37 PM >> Do you fit this profile? >> I complain about every thing but have no Ideas of my own. >> >> Even though I know that al least 6 601's have had fatal >> crashes, 2 with the skins coming off and at least 2 with the >> lower spar cap failing, I feel the airplane is just fine >> and it always happens to someone else. >> >> Even though the plans I bought show +6 and _6 >> "G"s I don't think there are any problems now >> that the designer has changed the -"G"s to -3 and >> reccomended a limit to the elevator - travel which may be a >> problem if your CG is not quite perfect. >> >> Get the picture??? Think about it!!!! >> >> This designer needs to step up to the plate and let those >> of us that are building according to his plans just what >> area of his design is prone to failure before his published >> and sold +6 -6 "G"s. and how to remedy the >> problem!! >> I don't fit all of your criteria, and I have talked to >> Chris on many occasions about the changes to his design I >> have made. Some are just common sense. >> >> PS Neither the skins or the wings on our 601 will come >> off...Something else will fail first. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: roger lambert >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:56 AM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder >> >> >> Do you fit this profile? >> 1. I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but I read alot >> about crashes in other types of high speed, pressurized >> airplanes built 30 to fifty years ago and interpolate from >> that to this airplane. >> >> 2. I change the thickness of the metal in one or more >> parts of the airplane without consideration of the >> distribution of the stress loads to other parts of the >> airplane. >> >> 3. I add doublers to various parts of the airframe also >> without structural analysis. >> >> 4. I buy materials for construction, sometimes from >> foreign countries to save a buck- without getting >> certifications that the materials meet the standards. >> >> 5. I change the materials from 6061 to 2024 or some other >> alloy without getting information as to the appropriateness >> of that alloy in that part being verified. >> >> 6. I don't care what the airplane is designed for- >> I'm going to " yank and bank" because I could >> have done what Chuck Yeager did if only I had the chance. My >> only flight time was in a 152. >> >> 7. My medical expired 7-8 years ago. >> >> 8. My plane hasn't been finished although I've >> been working on it for 5+ years. I just keep on making >> changes to make it better and keep me from ever having to >> actually fly it. >> >> 9. I'm sure I "know" more than the >> designer, who is fat or lazy or incompetent and is trying >> to hide his mistakes by refusing to help in the accident >> investigation and nothing, including the facts is going to >> dissuade me from that knowledge. Plus, I called them once >> and they didn't get back to me within 30 minutes and I >> won't stand for being "dissed" by anybody. >> >> 10. I'm sure the FAA and NTSB are fat, lazy and >> incompetent and really don't care about these accidents >> which are surely caused by some design error and/or are in >> league with the designer or some tri-lateral commission to >> steal our precious freedoms or drain our precious bodily >> fluids. >> >> 11. I intend to make significant changes to the control >> surfaces based on a book I partially read once. >> >> 12. I never intend to go back and check the torque on >> bolts or cable tensions once the airplane is completed. >> >> 13. Despite all this, I fully intend to blame the >> designer for any incident that happens anywhere in the >> world for any kit ot clone ever built by anyone. >> >> Welcome to the group. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:04 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine cowling placement I don't know about the O-235 cowling but with the Jabiru 3300 cowling there is excess at the rear of the top and bottom cowls which is trimmed off after fitting the front of the cowls to the prop flange. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Engine cowling placement I just got my O-235 hanging on the 601XL. Today I laid the top cowling on the engine and I am puzzled about the exact placement. If I lay it so that the rear edge of the cowling is even with the rear of the top flange on the firewall the front roll of the opening clears the flywheel about 1/2 an inch. Is that the correct placement or is that too far back. Assuming that is the correct placement, would I put my cowling fasteners (haven't picked them out yet, but would appreciate any recommendations) through the firewall flange or put them in front of the FW through the skin(s). Thanks in advance. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186623#186623 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: spark plugs and rain From: "kmccune" We actually measure the conductance of the distilled water, it goes up with time, dissimilar metals and bad luck..... But it starts at around 2uS/cm. Not theory at all. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186627#186627 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith Builder From: "Andrewlieser" Interesting side note; I previously owned a set of Sonex plans (set 929 dated prior to sport pilot licensing) and that design was rated at +6 /-6 in the aerobatic category and +6 /-3 in the utility category. A quick check of their website and it now shows +4.4 /-2.2 in the utility and +6/-3 in the aerobatic loading category. This makes me think that maybe manufacturers are getting a little more cautious since the sport pilot licensing began and would appear that this is not just a Zenith problem but rather all manufacturers are scared by less experienced pilots over controlling their designs. Just an FYI Do Not Archive -------- Andrew Lieser S/N 6-7045 http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186634#186634 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.