---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/16/08: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:37 AM - Re: work hardening? (ashontz) 2. 04:37 AM - Re: Question on EGT on Jab3300 (Juan Vega) 3. 04:37 AM - Re: Re: Question on EGT on Jab3300 (Juan Vega) 4. 05:13 AM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race) 5. 08:56 AM - Re: work hardening? (David Barth) 6. 10:25 AM - Buying? 601HD w/ Subaru EA82 (Ernest Deel) 7. 10:48 AM - cht & egt (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 8. 11:04 AM - Re: cht & egt (Paul Mulwitz) 9. 12:40 PM - Re: Scratch, kit , and Quick Build, build time survey (DaveG601XL) 10. 01:15 PM - Re: Buying? 601HD w/ Subaru EA82 (LarryMcFarland) 11. 03:46 PM - Re: Business trip in the 601. (Jugle) 12. 08:11 PM - Cracked ring gear (Ben52425@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:21 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: work hardening? From: "ashontz" If it's structural, I'd start over with a new piece. If it's a bracket for a cupholder you're probably fine. :) messydeer wrote: > Hi! > > I have a piece of 6061-t6 0.090". I bent it ~20degrees in a brake, at least 3t bend radius. The metal slipped in the brake while bending so I hammered it almost flat with a few whacks of the 4# hammer. I then rebent it ~1" away. Will the flatenning of the original bend case it to work harden enough to weaken it? This is on one of two pieces of 090 that sandwich a 3.5# piece of lead for the aileron counterweight. The other piece of 090 is fine. > > Thanks! -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188070#188070 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:23 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question on EGT on Jab3300 thanks, i think you are on to something. I am switching the sensors to check it out. also doing a pressure differential test just in case. -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Jun 15, 2008 10:13 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question on EGT on Jab3300 > > >Hi Juan, > >It may be that your #5 jug is running hotter or it may be the sensor >is measuring it differently from the other ones. Is there a way you >can swap sensors between 3 and 5 and see if the hot jug moves? If it >does, you know it is a measurement issue rather than something about >the engine itself. > >Fortunately, I think the difference you are seeing is not a >problem. It may just wind up being one of those curious things that >you never figure out. > >Have fun, > >Paul >XL getting close to done > > >>Number 5, the right rear most side has an EGT of 1400 and all other >>EGTs are reading 1300 to 1320. so they read as follows >>EGT 1310 >> 1320 >> 1315 >> 1315 >> 1400 >> 1320 >> >>Why are the CHTs running great but the 5th cylinder EGTs running >>hoter by 100 degrees than rest? >> >>Anythoughts? >> >>Juan Vega Jabiru 3300 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:23 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Question on EGT on Jab3300 thanks, i am going to do a pressure differential test to check for leaks. -----Original Message----- >From: jetboy >Sent: Jun 15, 2008 10:19 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Question on EGT on Jab3300 > > >Juan, > aside from probe placement being effectively different from the point of view of the gasflows, if you have a cylinder thats leaner than others and is near its peak EGT or running on the lean side of peak, the CHT on that cyl. will be less than for another cyl. running on the rich side of peak EGT. > >With the bing carb there is not much you can do other than rotate the carb to balance the mixtures (bottom of carb rotates towards the leaner cyl bank by 5 to 10 degs) or lag the #5 pipe with insulation if they are in a cold airstream. Also check there is no intake leaks or cyl. head to barrel leak. > >Ralph > >-------- >Ralph - CH701 / 2200a > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188035#188035 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:54 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern Time. http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George CH-701 Registered as N73EX Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:24 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: work hardening? Hi Dan. Work (or strain) hardening actually hardens the metal (and is some cases there is an increase in strength)  but reduces its ductility. Ductility is REALLY important when it comes to cyclic loading  and Vibration.  From what I remember  fom my engineering metallurgy courses elastic strain is when the material is deformed and bounces back to its original shape and doesn't strain harden. Plastic strain (deformation) where it doesn't go back to its original shape cause the strain hardening.   In the end I don't feeel qualified to make a difinitive statement on the relative safety of your part.  It will be subjected to cyclic loads and vibration. Ask yourself this " What would happen with a complete failure of this part?  and is the part easily visible for inspections every walkaround"?  Then make your call.  Because I am a scratchbuilder and find most parts pretty easy to make over, I probably would just do another part.  No answer I know but that's jst my 2 cents. (1 drop of gasoline) David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org --- On Fri, 6/13/08, messydeer <messydeer@yahoo.com> wrote: From: messydeer <messydeer@yahoo.com> Subject: Zenith-List: work hardening? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com> Hi! I have a piece of 6061-t6 0.090". I bent it ~20degrees in a brake, at least 3t bend radius. The metal slipped in the brake while bending so I hammered it almost flat with a few whacks of the 4# hammer. I then rebent it ~1" away. Will the flatenning of the original bend case it to work harden enough to weaken it? This is on one of two pieces of 090 that sandwich a 3.5# piece of lead for the aileron counterweight. The other piece of 090 is fine. Thanks! -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187815#187815 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:43 AM PST US From: "Ernest Deel" Subject: Zenith-List: Buying? 601HD w/ Subaru EA82 I'm looking at a 601 HD w/Subaru EA82 and belt PSRU drive-advertised as 750# ew; 1250# gw and GSC 3 blade 68"prop. Any comments and/or questions that I should ask the seller would be appreciated.The plane is in and registered in Canada, near Windsor, Ont. If I buy, could we do all the paperwork there and I fly it to my home (airport) in VA? before US registration? and new N number? Or do the paperwork there and trailer it (thru customs) to VA? Does the plane have to have a new AW inspection? And will this inspection be similar to the final inspection of any newly finished E-AB? Or could the seller (or his agent) fly it to my VA airport (GDY or 6V3) and do the paperwork here? This (or the trailer) would probably be the best option for me if is legal. Any comments will be appreciated. I know several other engines are being used in the 601's. Is this Subaru a sensible and practical installation for this plane? It has only the header fuel tank- 15 or 16 gals so might be nose heavy?(Larry McFarland, what say you???) The plane and engine have been together since "day one" year 2000.I had not thought about this before,but---Would most of you be comfortable flying(over the Appalachians) with single ignition? (Maybe there are some attitude adjustment pills for that single ignition problem??) BTW, I have flown a 601 HD with Rotax 912 about 30+ hours including first flight and it is about the best compromise for Sport Pilot compliant, looks, speed, economy, flying qualities, (must be tri-gear) 2 seats, cross-country, and local just "plane" fun flying and I hate to let this one get away, trying to avoid as many problems as possible and will be grateful for any help. Thanks in advance. Reply to the list or e-mail me---your choice. Ernest Deel (aka Ernie) ernieandjane@naxs.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:51 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: cht & egt all, my Egt on no.5 cylinder (Jab 3300) also runs hotter which bumps the CHT up to 330 plus. i can lean the carb 5 to 10 degrees toward #5 but then #6 starts heating up roughly the same as 5 cooling down. i think it may have a lot to do with the close proximity of the 5 & 6 cylinders coming off the manifold at right angles to the flow of fuel / air mixture as well as the inlet to the carby not having straightening vanes in it.. the fuel / air mixture being dense will tend to flow past #5 & #6 and feed the other four. i have removed the top butterfly baffles and installed larger Continental type on the bottom which helped a lot. that got all CHT's in the 270 - 290 range except 5 & 6. the new baffles also lower my oil temp from 215 down to 185 - 190. does any one have a good idea on how to get the back 2 cyl. cooler. i am using the early Pacific Zenith cowl and suspect it may not have sufficient inlet area as well. that would make the back cylinders starve for air. i would like to solve the problem without buying the newer cowling from Pete at Jabiru USA if i can. i am in Florida and the temps are over 90 most of the time. i have to pull throttle back to 25" at 400 - 500' to keep from over temping CHT on #5 during climb out. N131BP 65 Hrs. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:58 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cht & egt Hi Bobby, I was thinking about the input side of the carburetor too. I wonder if you added some sort of vanes to the input tube that might make the air flow better through the carb. I have no clue whether this would help, but I remember reading some notes in the Jabiru installation manual focusing on the last inch or two of ducting going to the carburetor. Good luck, Paul XL nearly done At 10:46 AM 6/16/2008, you wrote: >all, >my Egt on no.5 cylinder (Jab 3300) also runs hotter which bumps the >CHT up to 330 plus. i can lean the carb 5 to 10 degrees toward #5 >but then #6 starts heating up roughly the same as 5 cooling down. i >think it may have a lot to do with the close proximity of the 5 & 6 >cylinders coming off the manifold at right angles to the flow of >fuel / air mixture as well as the inlet to the carby not having >straightening vanes in it.. the fuel / air mixture being dense will >tend to flow past #5 & #6 and feed the other four. >i have removed the top butterfly baffles and installed larger >Continental type on the bottom which helped a lot. that got all >CHT's in the 270 - 290 range except 5 & 6. the new baffles also >lower my oil temp from 215 down to 185 - 190. does any one have a >good idea on how to get the back 2 cyl. cooler. i am using the early >Pacific Zenith cowl and suspect it may not have sufficient inlet >area as well. that would make the back cylinders starve for air. >i would like to solve the problem without buying the newer cowling >from Pete at Jabiru USA if i can. i am in Florida and the temps are >over 90 most of the time. i have to pull throttle back to 25" at 400 >- 500' to keep from over temping CHT on #5 during climb out. > >N131BP >65 Hrs. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Scratch, kit , and Quick Build, build time survey From: "DaveG601XL" I have the ZAC standard build kit, the Jabiru 3300 and their FWF kit. I am at the airport and am nearly done. All I need to do is bolt the wings and control surfaces on, tension the cables, wire the turnbuckles, plumb from the tanks to the selector and do my fuel flow test. I have around 750 hours in it (including 30+ of polishing). I figure I will be flying in around 20-30 hours of labor giving my just around 800 total build hours. I am a first time builder with an A&P background (from a long time ago). Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, working on final assembly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188158#188158 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:28 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Buying? 601HD w/ Subaru EA82 Hi Ernie, The EA82 is an overhead cam driven engine that has less similarity with the push rod type EA81 engine. The EA82 was a total redesign valve train is probably belt-driven like the EJ22. The parts may not have much shared or in common with the EA81. I dont have any issues with a good working single ignition system, but the Nippondenso ignition is expensive and frail. Its easily replaced with a heavier and more bulletproof set of components that cost lots less. Dual ignition is easily added. The 601 can take an EA81, but not the heavier EJ22, so Id be curious what the EA82 does weigh. You might try this link to get some comparisons to the models. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EA_engine#EA-82 The re-drive would be of interest, because some Ive seen are a shade less than satisfactory. Youre lucky its a belt drive in any case. The other two issues are carburetors and cooling. What kind of cooling system is he using? Is it internal or external and does it work well on hot days? Does it have Bings, or a basic carb or throttle body or what? Id be reluctant to buy a fuel-injected type simply for its complication. Given that the plane has been flying since 2000, it probably has most of the technical adjustments worked out. Id ask the seller if there are limitations or problems that have been found. Dont fall in love with the 601 without having seen all of it digitally or in-person as thats a recipe for disappointment. Being an HD, it would easily fly over the mountains and provide good balance with full fuel and one person with gear. The fuel system should be carefully considered as well. Hope for two electric fuel pumps at the firewall and a gascolator because the Subaru generally doesnt have a mechanical one. I would think you could buy the aircraft, fly it to the U.S. on its registration, then re-register and apply for new N-numbers given the airworthiness is, or should be, transferable. If not, the FAA can steer you on that issue. If theres anything I can help you with, dont hesitate to ask. You can reach me on other detail off-line anytime at larry@macsmachine.com Best regards, Larry McFarland Do not archive Ernest Deel wrote: > I'm looking at a 601 HD w/Subaru EA82 and belt PSRU drive-advertised > as 750# ew; 1250# gw and GSC 3 blade 68"prop. Any comments and/or > questions that I should ask the seller would be appreciated.The plane > is in and registered in Canada, near Windsor, Ont. If I buy, could we > do all the paperwork there and I fly it to my home (airport) in VA? > before US registration? and new N number? Or do the paperwork there > and trailer it (thru customs) to VA? Does the plane have to have a new > AW inspection? And will this inspection be similar to the final > inspection of any newly finished E-AB? Or could the seller (or his > agent) fly it to my VA airport (GDY or 6V3) and do the paperwork here? > This (or the trailer) would probably be the best option for me if is > legal. Any comments will be appreciated. I know several other engines > are being used in the 601's. Is this Subaru a sensible and practical > installation for this plane? It has only the header fuel tank- 15 or > 16 gals so might be nose heavy?(Larry McFarland, what say you???) The > plane and engine have been together since "day one" year 2000.I had > not thought about this before,but---Would most of you be comfortable > flying(over the Appalachians) with single ignition? (Maybe there are > some attitude adjustment pills for that single ignition problem??) > BTW, I have flown a 601 HD with Rotax 912 about 30+ hours including > first flight and it is about the best compromise for Sport Pilot > compliant, looks, speed, economy, flying qualities, (must be tri-gear) > 2 seats, cross-country, and local just "plane" fun flying and I hate > to let this one get away, trying to avoid as many problems as possible > and will be grateful for any help. Thanks in advance. Reply to the > list or e-mail me---your choice. > Ernest Deel (aka Ernie) > ernieandjane@naxs.net > * > * ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:45 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Business trip in the 601. From: "Jugle" Number 2 behind the 747, heh heh, fantastic. Great story Juan. -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- just started. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188191#188191 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:30 PM PST US From: Ben52425@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Cracked ring gear HI group Well I just went thru my annual and I found 4 cracks in my ring gear 2 completely across the webs and 2 small ones on the outer edge. I will have some pictures of this shortly. In the mean time I will send William an email and ask to replace it for me. he said he would them if they cracked. I only have 20 hours on this one and I sanded the edges like he said but it still cracked Ben 601xl


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